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Sunday, February 17, 2008

ELV discussion with the Waikato Chiefs

ELV discussion with the Waikato Chiefs



With the first weekend of Super 14 2008 underway, the new Experimental Law Variations have been a huge talking point.

Was the weekend a success because of them, or was it just a weekend of pure experimentation, with players, ref's, and fans all looking as confused as each other?

This interesting video features the New Zealand Super 14 side, the Chiefs, and shows their preseason training and thoughts on the how the season ahead will pan out under the new laws.

To find out more about the exact definitions of the ELV's and what they actually entail, have a look at the detailed thread about ELV's in our new forum. Feel free to ask questions there too.

Posted at 10:30 pm | 15 comments

Viewing 15 comments

will February 17, 2008 10:42 pm

I really don't understand the need for these ELVs. Is rugby boring at the moment? Is it too slow? Are there things people don't understand?All these laws seem to be for is to make the game less of a sophisticated contest between different types of player and different types of team and more like sevens with fifteen men. Traditional forward skills will be lost and with them much of rugby's nuance and character. It isn't surprising that it is in Super 14 that these laws are making their debut either. It seems whoever's in charge of this tournament wants to tailor rugby to Australian and New Zealand ideals. The idea that you make rugby more exciting by making it easier for the attacking team is nonsense. You should have to earn the hard yards not be gifted them. If anyone watched the Wasps/Bath game this Saturday you would have seen a fast, exciting game of rugby with a fantastic array of skills on show, not just flashy backs moves. Nine tries in the game and all without ELVs...

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geraint February 17, 2008 10:53 pm

Well said Will, the new laws are a joke

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will February 18, 2008 8:37 am

What happened to those new rucking laws? That's the area that really needs sorting out - it's a right old mess. As a referee what do you do if the tackler doesn't release the man he's tackled, the tackled man doesn't release the ball, the attacking side come in off their feet and the opposing side use hands in the ruck, all at the same breakdown? Answer: the referee ignores all of these factors as long as the ball comes out quickly, if not he flips a coin and penalises whichever side he chooses.

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Rob February 18, 2008 12:11 pm

I think that most of these rules are a massive positive. Mainly the rule turning penalties to free kicks. There are currently far too many offences that result in penalties when often it is very hard to rule conclusively on them (holding on on the ground for example - everyone does it to some extent so why should it result in a penalty when you just get unlucky). I think free kicks are a much better form of punishment for these minor offences and will result in more of a running game which can only be good for the sport. We will still have breakdowns and forward skill is still going to constitute a large proportion of a team - I don't quite understand why you got the impression that that wouldn't be the case.I think that the majority of you seem to be looking at this from the wrong angle. Of course rugby isn't boring at the moment - it's probably the most intense and exciting sport out there. But at the same time it definitely isn't perfect.Why are people always so scared of change?

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Still Anonymous February 18, 2008 3:06 pm

"If guys wanted to play rugby league, they'd go out and play rugby league," Habana said.

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will February 18, 2008 3:16 pm

Rob - The free kick bit I'm not really bothered about it's the new rules about the offside line at the scrums that I think will be damaging. In short teams will have to work less hard to get over the gain line requiring less skill and intelligence.The worrying aspect from a forward's point of view is that all of this is done to speed up the game. If you wanted to really speed up the game the next thing you'd do is make all scrums league style restarts. These new rules represent the start of a slippery slope that could see rugby change its character forever.It isn't that I'm scared of change, I'd be happy to see the rucking laws revamped as I say, but what I think is worrying here is the motivation behind the ELVs.

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Jorge February 18, 2008 4:14 pm

Hats off to Habana for saying what many of us think.Regarding free kicks instead of penalties, I fear this will lead to more illegal tactics, because the punishment isnt so hard anymore. Anyway, only time will tell. If you ask me, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

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Lothar of the Hill P February 18, 2008 5:52 pm

As an American rugby player and fan for 15yrs now I am constantly attempting to get my friends and family turned on tho what I believe is the greatest sport in the world. Typically that means inviting as many as I can to watch international matches with me. I had high hopes that the world cup would be the proving ground for a couple of my close friends and they would come aboard as fans and even come out to the local club with me. One game made this happen for me and it was the final pool match where Fiji played Wales. Both men were stunned by the match and site it as the moment they became rugby fans. I think it was one of the top three matches I have ever seen and I personally would like to see many more matches go this way. I think that someone at the IRB is of similar mind. All that said, I think this is classic over steer. The IRB has a goal I mind but instead of steady changes it seems like they yanked the wheel way to hard. I think if rugby would like to maintain and grow it's support it should look to minimize kicking for territory as a tactic. Playing tennis is not playing rugby and the two should never be confused. I do think this has the potential to really undermine the role of the forward however and a balanced way forward should be pursued. The defense is being strongly penalized as well lets not forget. I love a hard fought defensive match ala NZ vs France in the quarter finals and that type of match seems less likely after the first week of experimentation. Hopefully not all of these changes will be adopted.

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Prop 1 February 18, 2008 6:00 pm

I don't have a good feeling about these new ELV's. " It isn't that I'm scared of change, I'd be happy to see the rucking laws revamped as I say, but what I think is worrying here is the motivation behind the ELVs. " True, maybe rugby is so exiting because it takes time & effort to understand it

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Anonymous February 18, 2008 6:16 pm

its true, dont fix something that is not broken. I really dont support the ELV's.Anyhow, i think as an Argentinean, we should start trainning with lions to be leveled up with the super 14.I hope ELV's just stays there. as ELV.

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Anonymous February 19, 2008 2:50 pm

you can tell none of the players approve

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Rob February 19, 2008 4:56 pm

Can't believe all the negative responses here. Having done a bit more research into these ELVs I still think that they are positive moves on the whole. They all make perfect sense in terms of improving the game so why is everyone still so apprehensive?The only exception I would say is that the change of the 22 law is unneccessary and perhaps a step backwards. The others sound great.Have a look at this if you are a bit confused about the new laws: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb90uHwqlFwHe explains them well and says what they are intending to achieve. It might help you understand why they are a positive move for the game we all love.

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James Lillis February 20, 2008 12:28 am

"If it ain't broke don't fix it"Yeah - but open your eyes guys, IT WAS BROKE. Did anyone watch the RWC final - BROKE, BROKE, BROKE!!! Blind freddy can see that the game urgently needs change.The new laws aren't a joke - the only joke is the complete inability of the few to see the blindingly obvious.If you want a stop start game that involves big forwards bashing the ball up the middle, try league.

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Anonymous April 01, 2008 9:26 pm

If people want the game to be quicker, more expansive with more skill on show, only 1 rule needs to be changed: You should be able to collapse the maul. I think it's rediculous how you can get the whole pack in front of you to push defenders away and somebody with the ball can just hide behind. Imagine how much more exciting rugby could be if teams didn't keep the ball tight in mauls all the time.

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