The Webster and Cross head knocks vs Wales

My god Jonathon Davies really pisses me off as a comentator!Both players clearly did themselves serious injury and all he could talk about was yellow cards.For a start, Websters tackle was perfectly fine, chest high and the intention to wrap the arms was clear. The only reason he didn't wrap them completely was because he was out for the count on impact! Rollainds decision to remove him was the only good one he made all day, he should never have stayed on after that!As for the Cross incident you can clearly see in the video that his eyes are on the ball right up to the last second and then the look of horror on his face says it all! Also, look at it i real time, not slow motion and see how late Birne jumps. Nobody could stop running in time to avoid that collision! yellow card? Absolutely, but when the player is clearly badly injured it is sickening to hear Davies going on like a football fan calling for cards!

cross made no intention to move!!!injured or not it a yellow card(read the rules senlac) webster was a great tackle tho.scotland were again awful.worst team in europe.

Jonathon Davies is a fantastic commentator. Senlac. get a grip.

Senlac wtf you on about.no-ones questing the the legitamacy of websters tackle, it was fine, his head was just in the wrong place. And whilst lee byrne is 10 feet in the air cross cant see him? he raises his arms to tackle him.Dont think martyn williams would have reacted like that had he known cross was out cold.

I don't think he 'raises his arms to tackle him'. I think Cross had an 'Oh shit. Oh shit!' moment and his right arm comes out and left one up as he tries to duck his head down out of the way. There was no way he could avoid that knee, though.Seriously, watch if in real-time...no dodging that impact with the speed both of them were going.Senlac, it doesn't seem like Davies knew Cross had knocked himself out when he said 'That's a yellow card. That is a yellow card.' And he's right, it IS a yellow. It just sucks for Cross, being penalized for something he probably didn't mean to do.But them's the rules.

When you have the experience and knowledge of rugby Senlac, maybe you'll be in a position to criticise his comments.He was calling for a yellow for the 2nd incident, and rightly so as he blatantly aimed to take Byrne out in the air and cause him damage.

Common Sense, I disagree. I don't think it was blatant at all.

Websters tackle could've been a massive and legal hit,but it all went wrong and well, martyn william is hard as nails.... as for the concussed prop, well... he was just stupid, he charged directly with his face toards byrne's knee

in all fairness - websters tackle is maginally high and he led with the shoulder, it was lucky that martyn didnt get knocked out.and for cross, no sympathy at all. He could have broken Byrnes neck, and the claim that he brings his arms up to protect himself is rubbish, if he had just went/jumped for the ball then he wouldnt have risked seriously injuring himself or lee byrne and would have had a chance to win the ball. Every week someone trys to take byrne out (targetted cos hes so good). And finally scotlands coaching team should have to answer for the disgraceful lack of concern for the wellbeing of one of their players - at no point should the ref have to over rule the coaches on the safety of their players. Shocking! With players and coaches only interested in hurting ppl - where can scotland go from here *tut tut*

questionable hits indeed. but at least the players did a good job at staying classy and avoiding any nasty punch ups or dirty play. Not historic match, but a good one to watch

What was a prop doing chasing a garryowen anyway????

"His nickname is nugget"ORLY?

Thank god Cotter picked up Davies for saying that Webster didn't use his arms, cause the tackle was fine obv just unfortunate there was a collision of heads!Davies was a great player but that doesn't make him a great commentator even though I think he is very good. However he was biased a little throughout the match which is natural but it would just be nice to have an expert from each nation being able to comment. After the match Andy Nicol was correct to point out that if Shane Williams had scored the try Max Evans did it would have been another great try by the worlds best player!Cross is inexcusable doesn't look malicious he does see Byrne coming and looks like he just freezes. He doesn't follow the hit through just continues on his line paying the ultimate penalty. Deserved yellow.

you gotta love eric's comment"he was just stupid, he charged directly with his face toards byrne's knee"so you're saying he was following byrnes knee instead of the ball. You don't think byrnes knee ended up at the props headheight after he jumped do you? Grow a brain.

The best comment was "I don't understand why he did that." As if Cross was thinking, 'let me go and knock myself cold off this guys knee.' Think it was accidental, but a card none-the-less. As for Webster's hit, everything was fine except the end result. Not even a penalty in my book.

Davies was extremely biased in that game - worse than he has ever been. He completely overreacted to Websters challenge but Cross deserved the yellow.

Davies is almost as bad as Eddie Butler.Apart from Davies is a biased little Welsh......Everything the Welsh did was amazing according to him. Now Brian Moore, there is a commentator, least he actually critises )more often than not)

On Webster's tackle:When did Davies overreact? He thought he might not have used his arms but he (Webster) made an attempt, just a rushed, poor one. It just looks like Webster knew he had to make the big tackle to stop the momentum and possibly the try in the far corner. He got there too early, didn't get into position with body, head or arms and paid the price. He (Davies) mentioned the fact that he was out before he hit the ground and that "he's really hurt himself". Plus, Senlac, the first challenge wasn't yellow-carded; a penalty was awarded, probably for reckless play.On Cross' tackle:The second challenge wasn't malicious but it wasn't accidental either, if you see what I mean. He was in his debut, visibly emotional during the anthem and wanted to make amends for some poor scrummaging earlier in the game that led to a try earlier in the game, if memory served me correctly. He chased a kick down and I think he just was in a prop's 'no man's land'. He didn't seem to know what he was doing there, went to try to tackle Byrne but he was in mid-air already. It was a daft decision by someone who looked out of his depth all game. If he really wanted to take him out he wouldn't have led with his head. Partly accidental, partly stupid, he deserved the yellow card for dangerous play.

come on that guy didnt play his first game of rugby, he should know that people jump to catch a high ball, maybe he cant get his weight to leave the floor.he should also know that it is illegal and very dangerous to take someone out in midair!the yellow was well deserved

jon davies is an amazing commentator , so down to earth and alwats brightens up a cold sunday afternoon!

Anyone who says Davies is biased has obviously only been watching rugby since 2008.He rips into Wales more than anyone when they're not performing, he criticises the regions, the WRU and the players. going back to 06/07 he constantly mocked Wales' lack of ball carriers and the failure to get the ball over the gain line.Get a grip you bunch of whinging pussies.

To chrish Ash, the comment about leading his face into his knee was a joke and clearly you didn't get it.To be fair i think jonathan davies was a little biased now and then but whenever scotland did something well he congratulated it, hear him after scotlands try! At first websters tackle looked high and it was marginal but yellow probably would have been harsh, and a penalty wasnt even given anyway, it was a scrum to scotland for martyns knock on. With Cross he couldnt pull out of it but he brought up his arm after looking at byrne so he made it a lot worse for himself. Might have just been a reaction i dont know but deserved a yellow, unfortunate to leave the pitch perminantely though. To roger there's no need for comments like that, scotland had their moments and they looked sharp at times. Yes they have a lot of work to do, but remember there are more than just 6 countries in the whole of europe!

"Think it was accidental, but a card none-the-less"rofl.. yeah.. he accidentally targetted Byrne who'd already been in the air for a minute before Cross arrived. You're very naive if you think he didn't know what he was doing.

Yeah that Davies, what does he know. He only excelled at both Union and League in 3 seperate countries, including the southern hemisphere.

What the hell are you welsh boys on about!! Cross definitely deserved his yellow card but a knocking out i dont think so and as for breaking lee byrnes neck as if lee byrne has never taken someone in the air!!!! It is part and parcel of rugby lets be thnkful that no one was seriously hurt and get off Geoff's back.If you want to know digraceful it is martyn williams moving cross when he was cllearly out cold what if that was a neck injury?? He could have killed him!There behaviour as world class respected rugby players was dispicable. I can't wait to see you welsh get knocked off your perch by a far superior irish outfit.

Are you blind Duncan? Williams grabbed Cross from behind so didn't even know he was out, if you look properly he let him go when he realised.You can't blame him, when was the last time a team had two players stupid enough to knock themselves out. They've been taking lessons from Lima.Their behaviour? I think you need to watch the whole game again.

Great video!!!gotta love the 'They both slept soundly sunday night' .......lol, not suprising......bet they never really woke up from knock outs!......Quite funny how Martyn Williams lies there for a couple seconds, seems like "wow....im actually fine" !I agree, jonathon davies called for the yellow card straight away before he realised he was out cold, then said 'fingers crossed he is going to be ok!' personally the guy irritates me as a commentator, but he was a shit hot player and he does know his stuff...... yeh i think maybe he didnt realise, i mean really nowadays you know there is no way of taking someone out and getting away with it, so it probably was just slowness on his part, and it sucks to say but yeh, yellow card! i think the anonymous sums it up well:"come on that guy didnt play his first game of rugby"and also G:"What was a prop doing chasing a garryowen anyway????"lolGreat video again!

For those slagging of Davies' comments on the first tackle, if you actually saw the match (and the whole commentary) you would have heard him concluding that it was a legal tackle, he only thought he didn't use the arms after seeing the actual hit, not after seeing the replay from behind.

What are you actually being serious!? What abotu the couple of high tackles you boys had 5 metres from the line!!! OH i forgot thats ok because its Lee Byrne!! Rob Kearney is the better Full back anyway! As for Mike Phillips if he starts for the Lions against South Africa he will get mauled if he crabs across the pitch shame scotland are to blind to spot that oh yeah an PS I was at the game so i did see ok ya daffodil

lol, wow look how bitter Duncan is.You're right, the Lions scrummie should be Blair, so he can go missing for all three test matches. Will you be this bitter once Scotland lose to Ireland? And then you can praise England (and suggest all of their places for the Lions tour) until they beat you too.

"his nickname is the nugget! ah ah ah"

Got to agree that Cross deserved the card and the concussion. Not malicious but still shamefully poor technique and spatial understanding - just what you would expect from someone who is at best a good club player totally out of his comfort zone in an international test match.Different case for Webby. Poor technique from someone who should (but clearly doesn't) know better. Tackle would have been a killer if he was Williams size and tackling someone closer to his own size. Simple physics, Webby; it looked like the 10 stone last-season's-colt trying to man-and-ball the gnarled old back-rower that happens at any local club game up and down the country every week!!! Difference is Webster is 28 and a professional. Clue up, Man!As for Edwards, the man is an embarressment and the BBC needs to seriously question their policy on ex-internationals as commentators. He has seamlessly gone on to take Moore's crown as the most annoying git on sports telly. Moore has red-and-white tinted glasses on but at least he has some funny and often insightful things to say. Edwards is just a biased, nasal, whiney, insular wee jobby who has an over-inflated opionion of his status in the world of international rugby...and looks like the Child-Catcher from Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang.

Jonathan Edwards? :P The English triple jumper?

Martyn Williams is a rock

To Roger, Matt and the various annonymous coments! Read my comment!!! Did i ever suggest tha Cross wasn't a yellow card? no! My exact words were "Yellow card? Absolutely!" It was completely accidental with no intention whatsoever, but you just simply cannot do that and it's a card every time! No argument, I do know the fecking rules you idiot and if it was the other way round i would expect one too. However, it was clear, as with Webster, that Cross was out on impact, and my Primary concern would always be for the welfare of the player, not simply shouting "that's a yellow card that's a yellow card" whihc is what pisses me off. Even if we give Davies the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't realise until afterwards, the Webster one really was blatant on impact! Again though, all he could say was "did he use his arms in the tackle? Did he use his arms in the tackle?" quite clearly questioning the legitimacy of the tackle."Common Sense"get a grip! When "I" have the experience and knowledge of rugby". And you sit there and try to claim that Cross "blatantly tried to take Byrne out". I don't think i need to say anymore!At the end of the day, i have never questioned the decision to give the card to Cross. I think it was as deserved as anyone else. Nor have i ever made any comment about Davies in his playing days. He was a class act, but does that give him the right to act like and commentate like that? i don't think so! I have to say i can't remember who it was, but i do agree with whoever said that the Scottish team should be ashamed of themselves for leaving Webster on! It was an unbelievably dangerous and foolish decisiona nd could have cost both the team, and much more importantly the player sevrely. If Webster had taken another knock it couldve killed him! Here's hoping both players are ok and that Mr Davies can get his priorities right in the future!

What a bunch of complaining idiots.Cant the guy make a comment without you all getting histerical its not his fault the scots cant tackle.He actually made an interesting and relevant discussion on tackle tecnique whilst players were down.He questioned the webster tackle because it was both borderline high and his arms were half involved. he could have been in the bin aswell if the ref had seen it differently.wales would have had a penalty aswell, but prob missed that one aswell!!!

DUNCAN"What the hell are you welsh boys on about!! Cross definitely deserved his yellow card but a knocking out i dont think so and as for breaking lee byrnes neck as if lee byrne has never taken Duncan, who said he deserved to get knocked out? I havent seen anyone say that so where'd you get that from? Whenever a team mate gets taken out in the air, or punched or whatever, usualy his team mates come in and give him a telling off which is what martyn was doing. Watch the italian team do exactly the same to gheraty (cant spell) when he took out an italian in the air. It just so happened that gheraty wasnt out cold thats all. As soon as martyn realised he let go!DUNCAN (again)"What are you actually being serious!? What abotu the couple of high tackles you boys had 5 metres from the line!!! OH i forgot thats ok because its Lee Byrne!! Rob Kearney is the better Full back anyway! As for Mike Phillips if he starts for the Lions against South Africa he will get mauled if he crabs across the pitch shame scotland are to blind to spot that oh yeah anPS I was at the game so i did see ok ya daffodil"What high tackles? Rob Kearney is a good full back but Byrne (at the moment) is better and for people like Jeremy Guscott to say he's the best full back in the WORLD at the moment i think he'd be worth his place in a Lions team. Mike Blair is a great scrum half and so is Phillips, if you're ranting on about Phillips because you just don't like the bloke though that's fine, because yes he is a knob. Then again though what scrum half isnt?!?Keep the insults for when you talk to your school friends, there's no need for comments like that.

jonathon davies is a good commentator when wales aren't playing but when they are he turns into a complete cock like brian moore for england

That's the way to use your head, mate!!

If Cross goes into the air for that ball in any way shape or form, is it incidental contact because both players are off their feet in the air, or would it still be a penalty/yellow card for the prop? And if the players are out for more than five minutes are we allowed to cook and eat them??Samoan lock

Look at Williams head, it gets jarred far more than Websters and he just gets up and works his jaw a couple of times...I think Scotland need to field a couple of tough gingernuts! Surely they must have a few of those?

Davies is SHIT. Too biased.Can't believe some people perceive Brian Moore to be biased with c?nts like Jonathan Davies in existance.

have you never listend to brian moore? only reason he isnt biased and bragging about everything england do is cos they simply cant do anything well these days. Tho if u ask me any ex player who goes into commentry is a cock. austin healey anyone?

davies is so biased he actually believes cross was gonna use his face to take someones legs out....hmm think not jonathan! obviously not the smartest man going

Um, did he not take the man out in the air, in a dangerous (clumsy) way? If he did - yellow card. So, Davies was correct, perhaps just a bit too vocal about it that's all. :)

Just what this post needed, Rancid's garbage.Try finding some old tapes of Wales games when they weren't winning (there are plenty) and old episodes of Scrum V.Davies was at the front of the queue to bash Wales, Welsh rugby and the regions indivdually. He spent twenty minutes after the World Cup ripping Wales to shreds for having no ball carriers.Do some homework before you post nonsense.

He still looks like the Elephant Man after a face-raping though.

The commentator really sucks. how can a man stop his run on 1 meter? "he had a look"...bullshit. he had his eyes on the ball and when he realises that he has to stop, he couldn't cause of his speed. shouldn't blame the cross for that!

stoojay, whats that got to do with the tackles?

Listen to Brian Moore he had nothing positive to say about england on satuyrday!! so how can he be biased!!

Websters tackel was a bit unlike him got the technique all wrong probably had something to do with the fact it was pretty much a try saver and had he not made it wales were in the corner. Good call to come and make the tackle just got timing a bit off. Cross still not a yellow no intent and lets face it byrne is no slouch cross probably never expected him to get there. We see tackles like that week in week out that don't result in cards cause its 2 backs think the big man should feel a bit hard done by. And before you start banging on about knowing the rule. there has to be some room for competition. If byrne wasn't there the big man would have caught it and been off and running and it would have been clever play fine line.

Not at school mate at university. and yes Mike Phillips is a knob and the boy is overrated personally i would put peel as the lions scrum half. Oh yeah anonymous im not actually Scottish im irish but i am at uni over here. Get your facts right!

"Jonathan Edwards? :P The English triple jumper?"LOL!

Bring back Bill McLaren! Then no-one will have silly childish squabbles over who's a good commentator and who isn't =)Duncan, what's with the abuse man? I've always got on with the Irish fans, moreso than any other nation. The Irish team look fantastic this year, I very much anticipate a fantastic rugby match between the two form sides in the British Isles. Jamie Roberts and BOD would make a ridiculously awesome center partnership right now...RE: Cross' tackle; regardless of whether it was accidental or not (though you'd have to be an idiot to tackle someone's knee with your face on purpose), it's still a yellow card so who *really* cares how accidental it was?

Wales did make a high tackle about 5 metres from their try line. No doubt about that I was at the game. Should have defo been a pen.Hope Ireland win the Grand Slam this year :D

Really don't think Jonathan was biased, just happened to be Welsh and commentating on a good Welsh performance. If Scotland played well he'd be as complimentary. If Wales were as bad as Scotland he'd be scathing too.

davies has to be the most biased commentator on the circuit. Although there weren't many positives coming from Scotland's play, there were some good points that he failed to pick up on, whilst instead he was just singing Wales' praises throughout their solid but average performance(despite what Guscott says)

davies is massivley biased but tbh two illegal tackles both resulted in a fiar payback i would say. websters was high and cross blatantly saw and took out lee byrne in the air

how can you say websters was high? contact was made below the shoulders and he didn'twrap his arms as he was knocked out on contactbill

I am not sure if this has been mentioned or not yet , as i havent read everything.. so bare with me . I fully agree that cross's tackle was poor and worthy of a yellow card , but what i found most distressing was that martyn williams before rushing to see if his own man was ok , tried to pick up a knocked out Cross from the ground. I think that was a highly unnaceptable way to treat an injured man on the deck as if a serious neck injury was sustained , williams could have made it worse .

Cross' tackle was bad and deserved the yellow but think people are harsh on webster. I think the guy really put his body on the line tackling a bigger man to stop a try. At that speed there are few who will always get it right.Yep davies is annoying but i dont think there is a commentator who isnt when their country is winning well

Senlac is correct, Jonathan Davies is an awful commentator because he's too partisan. If Wales win it's because they play well if Wales lose it's because they played badly; he simply can't give objective comments or praise to the opposition! He's a classic example of the small minded attitudes of a number of ex-players! Brian Moore is just as bad!

Listen to jonathan davies after scotlands try or when they make a good tackle, he praises them! If you want to hear someone biased, try john inverdale, he said he wanted england to beat italy and scotland to beat wales so that england then have the upper hand over wales in their next game at cardiff! That's bias!!!!!!For anyone who is annoyed at martyn for grabbing cross after he took out Byrne. Watch the italians do EXACTLY the same to geraghty in the england game when he took someone out in the air. It happens every time someone is taken out, your team mates come in and tell him off, martyn didnt realise he was injured cos otherwise he wouldnt have done it, as soon as he realises he's injured he leaves him go, how can people not see that!?!?

You're talking shit "Bobster". Do your homework, Davies can be Wales' harshest critic, he rips them to pieces on Scrum V (see post-World Cup and past 6N tournaments), stop basing your comments on one game.

jonathon davies has got to be fired from the bbc comentator box.every time he commentates a match, I just can't keep watching the game because of his high-pitched irritating voiceplease fire him for the spectators

Looking at it, it appears as though Cross is trying to twist his body down to get his head out the road. I think his arms came up with the intention to try and push Byrne out of the way - it looks bad on slow-mo, but watch how quick it happened... for the time when he looks up, he will have had a split second to react. Still a yellow in my mind because of the way it was made - "thems the laws they is"... but I don't think there was any malicious intent there - just a desire to shine on his debut cap. Definite shame for the guy!!

Roger... worst team in Europe?? That's a very interesting statement LMFAO! Wales were much better than Scotland and once again didn't perform but I don't think it was a performance that says they are the WORST team in Europe. Clearly have a sh*t rugby knowledge. Also Ireland will win 6 nations. Wales 2nd... last game decider. I think Wales are a fantastic team 2 watch but I think the fav position will have made them over confident. A wee bit of arrogance there and it will be their downfall.

I dont really like davies as a commentator either but...i wouldnt...im scottish :(i think cross is a bit of a liability 'cos hes not fast, not that strong and not a very good scrummager :P

i just dont see why webster hit him like that. i know it was basicallly a try saver, and that he needed to make that tackle and he needed to make it like, 5 seconds ago, but if he had have just got a foot lower he wouldn't have knocked himself out, and everyone would be saying "what a brilliant tackle"

i am a human onion everybody.

"cross made no intention to move!!!injured or not it a yellow card(read the rules senlac) webster was a great tackle tho.scotland were again awful.worst team in europe."Oh do shut up, you cock. We know we're bad at the moment, but we don't need dicks like you harping on about it.Cross was unlucky. Eyes on the ball, sees Byrne, panics, dithers, BAM. Yellow card, malicous - no.Oh and whoever called someone naive to say that Cross knew exactly what he was doing - bullshit. No rugby player would ever deliberatly take someone out in the air. Ever. Rugby players know when to not cross (excuse the pun) the line.

Oh do shut up, you cock. We know we're bad at the moment, but we don't need dicks like you harping on about it.Cross was unlucky. Eyes on the ball, sees Byrne, panics, dithers, BAM. Yellow card, malicous - no.Oh and whoever called someone naive to say that Cross knew exactly what he was doing - bullshit. No rugby player would ever deliberatly take someone out in the air. Ever. Rugby players know when to not cross (excuse the pun) the line.Oops, I'm not anonymous, I am me!

You nobs slagging jonathan davies off are judging him solely on this clip. He KNOWS what hes talking about more than anyone posting on herebtw rancids opinions belong in a field with the rest of the bullshit

R.S. said... "The commentator really sucks. how can a man stop his run on 1 meter? "he had a look"...bullshit. he had his eyes on the ball and when he realises that he has to stop, he couldn't cause of his speed. shouldn't blame the cross for that!"Totally agree with you there... the high 'tackle' should be a yellow, no doubt about that, rules are rules, but for cross it was fairly unavoidable. He didnt realise that byrne was in the air until it was too late, his momentum and speed carried him into the tackle more than anything. from my point of view on the stand couldnt see anything malicious about the hit but taking someone out in midair is a yellow card situation regardless of circumstances.As for Davies, think he is an ok commentator, ok granted he did overreact for the cross incident but he was right it should have been a yellow card. Dont mind the guy and thats coming from a scot :)

Davies isn't human, it's a machine designed to promote the gay culture in the rugbyworld. Just like Nigel Owens is a hologram put there by the same people who decided to use yellow as the colour for the alternate kits of Wales and Max Guazzini as the chief of Stade Franais.Face it, a nuclear holocaust might just be the answer

The guy above me has issues.

In both cases the tacklers where looking to make legitimate aggressive tackles which in order to turn over the ball. Having watched both in real time, neither Webster nor Cross can be accused of anything other than a slight element of mis-timing. Jonathon Davies is talking gonads. I am fed up with the general malaise of in your face Welsh chippyness on the back of some minor success. We saw the same kind of ill informed whingeing over Julian White. When they win the World Cup I will forgive them for being so precious.

Any of you boys unloading on Cross, have anything to say about the parallels between this and Byrnes effort against Armitage in the England game?Didn't think so.

It's funny how everyone slags of eveyone else, e.g. Cross, webster, davies. But they are there because they are the best, maybe okay there not fantastic, but they are all the best to offer. None of us could do a better job.