Jonny Wilkinson joins Toulon in the Top 14

fair play to jonny, wish him the best of luck. Used to be the Enlish player i respected/feared the most. A real honest hard working player, a role model. Unfortnate with his injuries.

and 1st comment!

good but over rated, not the best kicker out of hand, Catt carried him through the world cup. obviosly ggreat from the tee and have to admit his tackling in the 10 channel if phenominally good, great player but just wish the english media would quit over hyping him to the point it annoys everyone

Yes he can

I'm french, sorry for my poor english.

I had a lot of respect for Wilkinson, i really hate the way england played during the years when he was on the deck (well, certainly because they were winning at those time). He was (and remains) the best kicker i have ever seen, a good runner (not Spencer or Carter though) adding to a dreadful tackler despite being relatively soft built.

But i think he faded away, and spent so much money for a guy that will still stuggle to go on a rugby field is a big mistake for a club.

Thus, it's Toulon, the worst club with the worst president the rugby has ever created. A bunch of mercenaries, that's all what they are.
Only money rules in this club, and this is another example, rugby isn't their buisness (ok, all French and English clubs work the same way, but Toulon is really the worse).
I'm already hearing "yeeaahhh, but ya know, they still managed to maintain themselves in Top 14"
Fuck, Fortunatly they did ! With such a band of overpayed players, it would have been a shame for these bastards to see themselves going down, they have to justify their salary a bit (still, don't tell me they give the best of themselves) at least !

That's why i have lost a big part of the respect i had to Wilkinson, he remained dedicated to Newcastle despite it's not a great club. And now, at the sunset of his career (ok, he's only 30, but it's more near the end than near the beginning) he's going to earn his money in a less-hard championship (Premiership isn't top class, but Top 14 is fucking worse) in a sunny region (well Toulon is really ugly, but there are nice places around) and without having to work hard to retain his jersey in front of a young french who would need game time to develop...
And there's an hidden message...

Same thing for Contepomi, Williams (he would have done better to stay in league, at least, would have been World Champion a time in his life) and Co...
Even for Saint-Andre at the coaching role.

"good but over rated, not the best kicker out of hand, Catt carried him through the world cup. obviosly ggreat from the tee and have to admit his tackling in the 10 channel if phenominally good, great player but just wish the english media would quit over hyping him to the point it annoys everyone"

Those are probably my views also. Great player at his best... but also without question the most over rated player to ever touch a ball in the last 10 years. Possibly the most over rated rugby player in English rugby history, period.

I wish him the best of luck in Toulon, but he isn't worth the salary.

jonny is a brilliant player and i think he should be back in the england team, i hate howevryoe i puing him down at the moment.

He's not over-rated when he was at his best 2002. Yeah these days he's a bit over rated, kicking from hand not what it used to be

"He's not over-rated when he was at his best 2002. Yeah these days he's a bit over rated, kicking from hand not what it used to be"

Being over-rated has nothing to do with his skill set.

Even when at his best he was still over rated.

That doesn't mean he wasn't great, it means there's alot of idiots who rated him higher than he should have been.

Jonny is easily the most over rated rugby player i think i've seen in my life time.

there is a god and his name is jonny wilkinson

"Jonny is easily the most over rated rugby player i think i've seen in my life time."

After Sebastien Chabal ^^

I hope for Toulon than Wilko won't get injured too soon... I've been through enough disappointement with Carter in Perpignan xD

best of luck to one of the most inspirational players of rugby! hope he stays clear of injury.

At his inspirational best, he can lift his side and win a match, simple as that.

I wish him the best of luck and i hope his injury plague finally subsides. A great player

But more than anything else i wish he'd come back and put those goddamn Cipriani morons in their place. Wilkinson was the best 10 England produced in very, VERY long time. Cipriani has produced fuck all in his career so far and i'm sick of people hyping him up when he's done squat.
I hope if one of the lions 10's are injured they take Hook and not cips, way more talented.

Jonny is a great player and a great role model. Any team in the world would like to hav him amongst their ranks. He has won it all that hit on Ntamack is epic

Jonny Wilkinson was/is a rock. He was consistently good and never let the team down.

His obsessive nature towards rugby and hunger for success was incredible. Overrated or not, the great level of respect towards him by opposition players and supporters is incredible and is indicative of how solid he was.

I hope he has a chance to be near his best at Toulon.

Wilko remains to be to this day my favorite player of all time...i think that it stems from the fact that i got into rugby during the 2003 WC, and his shining performance inspired my desire to play. I don't doubt his work ethic or his will to push on, but the obvious questions must be raised about how his body will hold up. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing i would love to see more than Jonny once again sporting the white #10 jumper, and who knows, maybe Tana will teach him something new.

wilkinson is an okay player, xcept being shite at defense and havin glass bones

his defence is good - excellent tackler

but

his passing off his weak side is not the best, and never has been

a rock thou

However, I've said it b4 and I'll say it again: Toulon are a disgrace of a club

wilko "shite at defence"??? possibly the most ill informed comment of the thread. I salute your idiocy, you have taken it too new levels

disappointed to hear the Toulon cancer spread to Newcastle.

Wilko will be a player of the ages for rugby. Yes he may be overrated, but was as much of a game-changer as anyone in the modern era. Combine that with a RWC, and that makes for legend.

Shame he's headed to a synthetic rugby club like Toulon. Why not head somewhere with a little more rugby soul?

when he is injury free, he's worth every penny Toulon is paying him...

His passing seems weirdly underrated. I think Catt 'carrying' him through the WC is quite funny too, there are many better tactical kickers around but that's over the top.

I didn't think he'd ever get back to his best, or even be fully fit again- after returns in 05/06/07 but at the beginning of the 08 season he really looked fit and firing again. He deserves it, no doubt of that.

One thing that no one has mentioned is that this guy is the perfect example of too much rugby ruining players' careers. We should still be watching this guy play at his best, but he has played about 20 games too many each year for the past 10 years (those of which he wasn't injured).

Wilko is one of the greatest of all time. He was strung by injuries at what should have been about 35% of his pro career. He hasn't been the same.

Jonny Wilkinson >>> better than your favourite rugby player

@ mpc33 : fortunatly, as a french, you just proved Toulon is the most hated club ever in France, as it always been. Toulon is like an island, we just get the fuck at all your southwestern clubs. That's our prideness.

Wilkinson just have to be safe until Felipe Contempomi's coming back. And if he can do more, I'll laugh at your terrified shaking knees from my sunny beach with a bimbo and a cocktail in each hands :-D

Not overrated at all. Overrated = Paul O Connell, Mike Blair, Chabal, Habana, Cipriani, Michelak.

with contepomi, toulon own 2 world class-kickers!

The next top 14 will be very entertaining as usual.
But I'm not sure that toulon would disturb the fab 5 (Toulouse, stade francais, clermont, perpignan, biarritz)

Furthermore, i'm a bit worried by toulon recruits, seems like a bench of mercenaries vs traditional clubs as toulouse or perpignan

Racing 92 with chabl, nallet or merhtens can be also a good side to follow

Can be a good subject of debate:

Is Toulon the new "chelsea" of rugby? boudjellal the new abramovitch?

;)

I hope that Toulon rip up the Top 14 next season under the guidance of Saint Andre, mainly just to piss off the whingers. Here's to an injury free season for Johnny and success all over the field for Toulon.

I really like Jonny, he's a decent guy and he has a lot of skill. Highest points holder in World Rugby is no easy task. He is a fantastic goal kicker, has excellent hands, a decent tactical boot and his defense is outstanding (when he was in his prime) for a 10; and we can't forget his coolness when it comes to pressure drop goals.

Its a pity he's been injured so much, he's missed a lot of decent years of rugby he could of continued to shine.

It's not over yet though. This new stint at Toulon might be exactly what he needs to get motivated and fit again.

England still have a problem at 10, and Jonny has always shined in the England 10 jersey and probably has another World Cup in him.

wilkinson's defence on forwards running straight at him or even into his channel was top notch. he struggled against backs with pace and good footwork, he missed more tackles than you realise.

it's easy to make tackles on forwards if you have the commitment to technique to smash them early, doing it on backs is much harder.

he will be remembered for his big hits against forwards as they make better viewing than missed tackles against backs.

his defence was therefore average.

and before anyone tries to refute this, i heard will greenwood say something similar last year.

the reason why he became overrated was because of his drop goal in the world cup, when a load of non-rugby players (especially from England) went crazy about him saying he was the best player ever, so i don't think his being overrated really means anything.

there is a god and his name is jonny wilkinson

Good lord what a load of b*****x, The guy can kick a drop goal but those hard tackles have taken there toll and he now has no right shoulder or right knee left...pretty much no right side.

Big big weakness which teams have and will totally exploit.

Look at Scotland in last years 6N.
God/Wilko was awful and couldnt find touch with his kicks even if he was standing on the line.

He played just 4 games last year so will be totally off game speed and form so i wouldnt expect anything miraculous from him because he is at the wrong end of his career and as such career rehab isnt as quick and effective as it was when he was younger.

The guy was good in 2000-2002 but I always feel when I watched him play last year and the year before that the game has changed from when he was at his peak and that he doesnt have the speed, athleticsm or skill set needed anymore to compete and with being robbed of his good defensive tackling because of his glass right shoulder, he really has nothing more to add and is in my view an expensive mistake.

Toulon's mercenary status and whether or not Wilkinson is as good as people have claimed seem to be the main threads - both full of a fair deal of scorn and hate.

Johnny wasn't just a good kicker. He was a game winner at the highest level. Calm, precise (from hand or boot) and defensively he shut down the 10 channel in a way no current 10 does. Think of the joy top level teams have running at that tight channel - then try and picture a team doing it when Wilkinson stood there for England. Look at the boys scoring record - it's phenomenal. He might not light up a rugby pitch the way say a Spencer or Hodgson can. But in two evenly matched teams the side with Johnny in will win more times than not.

Lions - 67 points in 6 tests
World Cup - 249 points (yes, 249!) the world record
and the only player to ever score in 2 world cup finals
For England - 1032 points (more than double the number of his nearest competitor)

He's scored more points in test match rugby than any other player - ever!
Hit more drop goals than any other international player ever

How do you over rate numbers like those?

And on to Toulon:

There's no doubt that trying to buy success will never buy you the love of opposition fans. But why would anyone care about that?

It seems that the club has learnt some lessons from their first season in the Top 14.

St Andre is a great signing as coach - he moulded Sale into a highly competitive, championship winning side, blending English and foreign players, playing a blend of expansive and aggressive rugby.

Wilkinson has never given anything less than his all for his club or county. I expect he'll do the same at Toulon - anyone suggesting he's there for a cheque clearly doesn't know who they're dealing with. And I'd expect his attitude to be infectious.

Conti has also shown he's got what it takes to play top level club rugby and is prepared to put it in away form home.

I'm also expecting a bigger season from SBW - and from a purely neutral point of view will be following Toulon with interest and looking to them to put on some great shows next season.

well callum12 his defence was certainly not average, and as for your unsubstantiated claims that Greenword that agreed with you. Piffle.

If you compare him with ROG, Jones etal, you will see what truly average fly half defence is all about.

For England - 1032 points (more than double the number of his nearest competitor)

hes actually scored 1099 international points and well i dunno what the f**k your talking about with that "double his nearest competitor", Neil Jenkins is 9 points behind him at 1090.

That was in 2008, he hasnt played any international games since then.

"the reason why he became overrated was because of his drop goal in the world cup, when a load of non-rugby players (especially from England) went crazy about him saying he was the best player ever"


didnt he win IRB world player of the year before england won the world cup? anyway even if it was after you dont win that without being good and its decided by rugby people not non rugby players.


and hes scored over 1000 test points before he was 30 and hes been injured for 4 years. his influence took an england team that lost 36-0 to the boks to beating the aussies and french just a few weeks later and then restricted the very same boks to a fraction of that score. please tell me how hes overrated??

people here saying he wont light up the pitch like spencer or carter but could either of them have welded a team together and ground out a result like wilko?

and true catt did help him in the world cup but how many of us at 23 could handle the hopes of a nation being place on you? france would have beaten england in the world cup semi but michalak didnt have the calming influence that you need on the pitch that wilko did in catt and wilted. even very talented players feel pressure.

If you look back at the achievements Jonny has made, I fail to see how many people can call him over-rated.
He is the highest points scorer in World Rugby (I think O'Gara is next-who's still playing- and he's like 400 behind), he slotted a drop kick after playing the whole game and 29mins and 40seconds of extra time, off his weaker foot and from 30metres out. He was formidable in defence- a team could never be playing England and decided to constantly attack the 10 channel, like they can against the much weaker northern hemisphere defences like Wales(Jones) and Ireland(O'Gara).

So yeah, I can admit that he was hyped up by the media. Especially after his winning WC drop kick. But my statement is, why the fuck not? 'There is a God, and Jonny is thy name'

Ha, have another one. From when we beat France in the 2007 WC. 'Condom sales in France ploummeted last night, as the England rugby team proved that to fuck 15 frogs, you only need one Jonny' lol!

It seems to me by reading most of these comments that Jonny is actually under rated. One of the posts above (with that stats) explains why he was awesome and you can't argue with that. Most of those records in the space of a few years before he was injured.

Yes he had a great pack that won him penalties, and he had Will Greenwood (under rated) at inside centre but he was class. He just didn't have much flair which explains why some of you found it hard to see what he was bringing to the team.

@ Kenny

Mate you think before you post.

Johnny has scored 1032 points for England and 67 points for The Lions - a total of, yup, you guessed it, 1099.

So for England - like I said, for England, he's scored 1032. And second on the list is Paul Grayson on 400.

great defensive player but...
as soon as the english pack lost its dominace he's been shown up to be over rated

Oi anonymous, for the record Stephen Jones tackles like a flanker, (although runs like one too..). like Wilko he might not be a carter or spencer but his defense sure isn't lacking!

I'm looking forwward to seeing (when fit) Wilkinson at 10, Contepomi at 12 and SBW at 13...not a bad set of inside backs!

i dont really care what you non english people think about jonny wilkinson you can bad mouth him as much as you want carried by mike catt, kicking from hand no good ,cant tackle backs what a load of pants all jealous because you haven't got a player who can lift the crowd as much as jonny does he is an inspiration to kids who watch rugby and play rugby
iam also pretty sure he has been a part of the rise in populariy in the game of rugby in the last few years.

Firstly would agree that people should just let the rugby do the talking its the way it should be in any sport.

But there is a simple point, he is one of the highest points scores of all time. So that should answer whether he is good or not. But to but that into perspective, he hasnt play much rugby since 2003 in comparision to most international 10s. Over 5 years and they still havent caught up. Enough Said

To the person that criticised what i said about Stephen Jones' tackling;
Go to the home page, and watch the video of Sivivato's try in 2005... Some tackling like a flanker mate...

This deal alone is blessed by all sides.
The French are upbeat and confident to keep him fit for a decent run of games.
The less physical style on the T14 and the more relaxed atmosphere across the channel might work wonders on him.
So who knows?

@ Kenny

Mate you think before you post.

Johnny has scored 1032 points for England and 67 points for The Lions - a total of, yup, you guessed it, 1099.

So for England - like I said, for England, he's scored 1032. And second on the list is Paul Grayson on 400.


Sorry for comparing Wilkinson to GOOD fly halves next time ill keep comparing him to the shitty ones like Grayson because it makes him sound WWWWAAAAAAYYYYY better. Paul Grayson lol

Definately can still produce if he stays fit. great tackler, excellent off the tee.

the most important thing to talk about here is the way toulon are making a joke of the game.

WILKINSON FOR PRIME MINISTER!!

All-time most over rated players:
1- sheridan
2- cipriani
3- shaw


Wilko was a unique player and so is chabal.

i bet he would do a better job than the scottish muppet of a prime minister we have now apart from he would probably fall of his chair and damage his voice box and then have rest of the year off

considering wilkinson held a variety of points records even though he was injured for massive periods of his career speaks volumes. not the fastest but one of the most dedicated players that ever lived. always rated by players as the hardest tackler around, which at 13st is pretty impressive. goal kicking was unbelievable but mostly his ability to stay focused under pressure. even though he may not be the best player in the world when he played for england they won, they are a different team with him. if hed played for a decent team all his career he probably would have achieved alot more than he did, rather than being the loyal nice guy and staying at newcastle.

to those saying hes overrated as he wouldnt light up a pitch - richard hill was hardly the most noticable on the pitch but you notice the difference when hes gone. same with jonny. england are a completely different proposition with him in the team

Andrew Sheridan and Matt Dunning are overrated harses

Is "Kenny" really that stupid?

"Hackney Griffin" wasn't randomly comparing him to Grayson, his original point was that Wilko had more than twice as many points as the next highest England international points scorer, and Grayson is that person.

D O
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U N D E R S T A N D
N O W?

Top 10 all-time English International points scorers.

Rank Points Player
1 1032 Jonny Wilkinson
2 400 Paul Grayson
3 396 Rob Andrew
4 296 Jonathan Webb
5 259 Charlie Hodgson
6 240 Dusty Hare
7 210 Rory Underwood
7 203 Simon Hodgkinson

just something i want to discuss....is Toulon buying and selling players the future of rugby?? it started in soccer....could this be what all rugby clubs are going to be like in the future??

as far as i was aware O'gara still going strong and injury free is only 119 or so :-s (dont quote me on that) points behind, all that other chat is between other english players is it not? I mean is Neil Jenkins not right behind him, even though he's not playing anymore?

however:
Anonymous said...

All-time most over rated players:
1- sheridan
2- cipriani
3- shaw

couldnt agree more, other than to add wilko is also hugely over-rated
(note it's over rated nothing to do with skill!!!!) Haha and see how they are all english, i love the english, but their media ruins them to the world!

As a newcastle falcons fan I am feeling mighty peeved. After world cup glory we were offered lucrative transfer fees but turned them down, since then he has been constantly injured and out of action, managed to write two books and fill them with God knows what in this time. Now Bates the disaster is incharge of the club, let any slightly good player leave and now we've got a crap team for next year. Hmmm it's not fair!!!

is rory underwood the most impressive in that list seeing as it will all be tries?

The English Media spends 90% of the time slagging us off so i dont know what your on about.

Jonny is the man. Absolute inspiration, Probably the hardest working player the game has ever seen. LEGEND

As an Irishman, to say Jonny is over rated is retarded. Its the english media, of course they were gonna put him up on a pedistal.

When Jonny made his debut (at outside centre by the way, against ire) i hated him he was that good. We were stuck with bloody Eric Elwood and Paul Burke????
He was actually very quick and had a good step aswell, I remember he broke his leg (maybe99), and that did affect his speed there after.

But the fact is, he changed the way backs played and prepared, no wilko, no carter, simple. He revolutionised Fly Half play. O'Gara states in his bio that watching jonny's dedication to training on 01 lions tour changed his whole approach to rugby. Coaches started looking for better defensive out halves, Jones, James, Carter, etc

His record as mentioned above is unequalled. O'Gara only overtook his 6N record this season and overlooking O'Gara's substitute apps has played way more rugby than Wilko.

Considering he is actually younger than O'Driscoll and doesn't have the mileage I hope he has 2 very successful years earning what his talent deserves. If Toulon want to pay him so much, so be it, we're not talking soccer levels just yet. Having Contepomi alongside him will take pressure off and they can change kicking duties at will, one left footer and one right.

Also, Toulon have bought a young Munster prop, tighthead Timmy Ryan. This guy is the real deal, if he can get game time in the top 14 he'll make a hugh dent on international level. It was his push at scrum that lead to only try All Blacks conceded in November. HGope it goes well for him.

Gee, that wasn't a long ramble at all.

One of the all time greats best of luck to him

Wilko is definitely the best all-around 10 I have watched. Carter is completely awesome, but he's got such a great team behind him, and he wasn't that impressive at Perpignan(I wish he hadn't been injured!). I feel like Wilkinson did the impossible with England in the world cup(they just weren't as strong a team as the others!) and elsewhere during his heyday. I think he can have his renaissance at Toulon, and do the same thing there.

"Also, Toulon have bought a young Munster prop, tighthead Timmy Ryan. This guy is the real deal, if he can get game time in the top 14 he'll make a hugh dent on international level. It was his push at scrum that lead to only try All Blacks conceded in November. HGope it goes well for him."

Good to read that. Tim Ryan's announced as the 3rd prop choice of Munster... We wondered here what could be his real level, and if the chaotics Top 14 scrums won't get him on a rolling chair... :-S He'll probably have some game time in the firsts games or in Challenge Cup.

Is "Kenny" really that stupid?

"Hackney Griffin" wasn't randomly comparing him to Grayson, his original point was that Wilko had more than twice as many points as the next highest England international points scorer, and Grayson is that person.

D O
Y O U
U N D E R S T A N D
N O W?

Top 10 all-time English International points scorers.

Rank Points Player
1 1032 Jonny Wilkinson
2 400 Paul Grayson
3 396 Rob Andrew
4 296 Jonathan Webb
5 259 Charlie Hodgson
6 240 Dusty Hare
7 210 Rory Underwood
7 203 Simon Hodgkinson

Jesus u dont say anon, hackney made that clear and i had already understood from his original comment, i merely pointed out the all time international not English.

How many from that f***kin list are actual fly halves who score probably 10 points per game on average.

Wilko is undoubtedly one of the great 10's.
An enormous shame that his career has been hindered by so many injuries.
Just imagine what his stats would be now if he had been consistantly playing?

to the person above who states johnny did a miracle with england in the world cup, i do hope your referring to the 2007 world cup rather than 2003 as the 2003 team was by far the best - had beaten everyone there was including new zealand in new zealand. if the B team hadnt lost the warm up game to france (should point out it was frances first team and they only lost by one or two points) then that team would have set the longest unbeaten record

The people woo say he is over rated are blatently people who have been beaten by him. If there was onyone i would bet my car on to get that winning drop goal, it would be him. He just needs more game time and to get back to match fitness. His running is brilliant and england have never been the same with out him. In the 2007 WC, we only started to perform when he came back and played for us. Never overrated.

somewhere, sometime, on this site, we have to have that discussion on toulon.

Yes, it has to happen. it keeps bubbling up and never quite kicks in.

its too latwe now, here - this is Johnny's set of comments.

But what Toulon now represent is exactly what is wrong with both capitalism and sport and the fusion of the two.

Pity they weren't relegated.

so he missed a tackle Ben, it terms of overall defense he is very good for a 10, but hey if we're talking about individual incidents, i saw Stephen Jones run straight through Ali williams at the millennium stadium in Cardiff...not bad for a guy half his size, he has a habit of unexpectedly breaking about 3 tackles. despite his lack of flair.

"i bet he would do a better job than the scottish muppet of a prime minister we have now ..."

Why is it relevant that the prime minister is Scottish you xenophobic twat! Are you feeling dominated by a foreign power? ha ha ha...loser!

There was no over rating about it, offensively he was one of the smartest and quick thinking players on the pitch, he is one of the biggest points scorer in the game, and he's spent years injured, surely that says enough. Nothing to say defensively because youre lying to yourself if you can criticise the man. One of the Greatest rugby players ever. THESE ARE THE FACTS!! Just hope he gets a good run without injury and im sure we'll see him get back to the top.
Apparently God prays to johnny 3 times a day