Thursday, May 28, 2009
Two yellows and a red in European Challenge Cup final
Early on in the match it looked as though Irish referee George Clancy was struggling to control matters as the fiery French side got frustrated with his decisions. Saints had expected the match to be physical, and they got exactly that as niggle crept in.
Morgan Parra and Neil Best got themselves in a tussle shortly before halftime, resulting in Best receiving a messy looking black eye, and both players being shown yellow cards.
Later in the match, about 2 mins after Saints replacement lock Courney Lawes put in a huge hit that injured scrumhalf Parra , Bourgoins Thomas Genevois decided it was payback time and unleashed a punch on Lawes, which started another brawl.
Captain Julien Frier then landed a punch on Scottish prop Euan Murray, splitting Murrays eye and earning himself a meeting with the disciplinary committee, as he's since been cited by the match citing commissioner.
Murray did well to refrain from retaliating, which would have surely jeopardised his British & Irish Lions tour, la Alan Quinlan.
Genevois was red carded, although he was determined to stop the ref from showing it, leaning towards the side of misconduct of a different manner.
Following the next lineout, another incident sparked a small scuffle again, as Lawes put in a seemingly late and unnecessary challenge over the dead ball line. He was penalised, but some thought it should have perhaps warranted further action.
It was a chaotic but enjoyable final that had moments that probably weren't a great advert for the game of rugby. In terms of intensity though, it lacked nothing, which made for quite a spectacle.
Courtney Lawes smashes Morgan Parra in European Challenge Cup final
Posted at 11:58 am | 114 comments
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Viewing 114 comments
Muzz11 May 28, 2009 10:17 am

Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:17 am

well played in my opinion
Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:30 am

SwissVinch May 28, 2009 10:34 am

Ben May 28, 2009 10:34 am

Absoltely disgusting stuff. Running in and hitting someone blind and running out. Not only is that bad for rugby but its bad for manhood too. How tough do you have to be to do that.
Nothing wring with the last incident and shouldve been a penalty FOR Northampton for throwing the ball at him.
I love the irish refs
"Number 6 has come in from nowhere ans landed a SERIOUS punch"
Brilliant
Tom Hagen May 28, 2009 10:37 am

What a coward! Hitting people that are being held...
Shocking!
RD May 28, 2009 10:38 am

Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:38 am

Kieran May 28, 2009 10:46 am

Any chance of highlights from the recent sevens final between England and New Zealand?
Apparently it was quality.
Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:49 am

Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:52 am

JJM May 28, 2009 10:54 am

The punch on Lawes was just ridiculous, and summed up everything that wrong with French rugby. Total nonsense.
I think that regardless of what ref had that game it would have probably gone that way.
Anonymous May 28, 2009 10:58 am

Nathan May 28, 2009 11:05 am

Lawes last hit on Bourgoin's 13 was very unfair though, giving the fact the French guy was already past the deadline. He clearly wanted to throw him into the ads...
perfides anglais May 28, 2009 11:05 am

Kenny May 28, 2009 11:08 am

I know it has nothing to do with the violence but i have commented on the match in question in a previous clip. Just wondering....
Anonymous May 28, 2009 11:19 am

I'm more shocked at the French guy putting his hands on the ref, that should be punished witha lengthy ban.
Pretty obvious the French were bitter about losing.
Dumb though, not smart rugby at all, illdisciplined and unproffesional to get yourself sent off and miss games in future as a result.
Brick Shithouse May 28, 2009 11:31 am

Anonymous May 28, 2009 11:33 am

Any higlighs of the Asian Five Nations?? seemed to be a good tournament this year!
frenchpolak May 28, 2009 11:34 am

And nice one mitch, nice one. Just keep doing the anglophone community a great deal and keep slagging off the french...its easy isn't it?
Anonymous May 28, 2009 11:58 am

T. May 28, 2009 12:07 pm

And for the english, stop to say french teams bound violence. It's not true!
And to finish with humour.... at least french teams known to destroy their opponent eyes ;)
Anonymous May 28, 2009 12:17 pm

How can you say that the incident with lawes was fine ??? He clearly wanted to do damage !
Anonymous May 28, 2009 12:42 pm

It will be ridiculous if Northampton will get a hearing for this.
Anonymous May 28, 2009 12:47 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 12:56 pm

Loved the strike. Lawes had it comming..
Scott May 28, 2009 1:04 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 1:13 pm

Cheis May 28, 2009 1:17 pm

you simply can't talk/clap to a referee like that..
schalk burger got 3 weeks for a cynical applause like that couple of years ago
Benjamin May 28, 2009 1:23 pm

("By Lilian, at May 28, 2009 1:21 PM")
Cav May 28, 2009 1:27 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 1:36 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 1:40 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 2:16 pm

It's not like they're masters of fighting. For the most part they windmill their arms about like females.
These players don't care about suspension. They'll continue with the niggly stuff until British teams start to defend themselfs.
Well played by Lawes. Completely legal. Who cared if he meant to hurt him. I try to hurt people everytime i make a tackle.
Flooz May 28, 2009 2:24 pm

Everybody need to give fair judgements.
The first struggle between parra and best is typical between a scrumhalf and a flanker. 2 deserved yellow cards
Genevois red card is completly coward and deserved, and he should be ashamed of that
i don't know how Lawes was still on the pitch..
Now,i must say few words on people (a lot of northampton fans)who insult french rugby and teams.
i think it's very easy to summarize french rugby with violence.
French players play with their passion. This referee gave a lot of unfair calls against bourgoin and i think their nerves exploded simply.
The saints played well with it, provokating them constantly and that's part of the game!
What i mean is, i don't like english "try-less" rugby but i respect it, please respect other rugby.
a final to forget,
Flooz May 28, 2009 2:27 pm

"Well played by Lawes. Completely legal. Who cared if he meant to hurt him"
What u say is stupid. Have we seen the same images or are u a skysport journalist?
Hackney Griffin May 28, 2009 2:42 pm

Given the number of Bougoin players who threw cheap, blind side punches when no fight was going on I am amazed there have been no calls for them to be banned from European rugby next season. Disgraceful.
Totally agree with the praise given to Murray - does the right thing and steps away. Winning the trophy is how you prove who's the bigger man. That or putting in a big legal hit. Like Lawes. Both were legal in my view, he looks like a great prospect.
I'm certainly not a Northampton fan - and think Best was lucky to emerge with only a yellow - provoked or not he threw a punch and is lucky not to get a red. But to claim as Flooz has that it takes two teams to fight ignores the footage we've just seen. It only takes one team to kick off and throw cheap blind side punches. And too often it seems this is viewed as acceptable in French rugby.
Anonymous May 28, 2009 2:52 pm

More generally, the whole debate on french indiscipline is a bit tiring. It is true that in France there has been a long standing tradition that teams are aloud to let some steam off by having a few fights, and as long as no injury is suffered because of it, it was OK. this has to change and it does, albeit slowly. the sissy windmill type punches thrown by the french sort of reflect that.. the whole point of the fight is to have a scrap and let some steam go.. Laporte as french national team coach had managed to bring more discipline and the main french clubs are now quite disciplined, so it's coming but it takes time..
It is also true that reputation follows the french and feelings of injustice build on.. Stephen Jones of the Times has summarized it already but between the way the two confrontations between Stade Franais and Harlequins were referied or the way the Perpignan Lock Tincu was banned for 18 weeks after the Ospreys-Perpignan match in this year Hcup for allegedly gouging an opponent (while no image managed to prove the claim) while James who decked him with a punch got just 1 week, feeling of injustice keeps building on...
in modern refereing communication between the ref and players is paramount, but except making it mandatory that all french or italian players speak english it is legitimate to ask referees to pay a particular effort in making sure non english speaking teams understand what they say..
To go back to the Saints-Bourgoin match, from the start the french team could see they were overmatched and that their only real chance to win was to use to the best their relative dominance in the scrum and solid rucking and hope for penalties.. they felt that the referee kept penalising them and didn't penalise the Saints in this area enough and they grew frustrated... They reverted to silly old french style blowing up and punishment is warranted, but understanding what happens still matters...
All of us rugby lovers would prefer to see good matches not marred by that kind of action. The ERC should set up seminars for club coaches, captains and referees before the beginning of the Hcup to stress how matches are refereed and how to communicate properly...
It would only take some effort from all involved (french teams, refs and ERC) to make that problem go away faster...
Anonymous May 28, 2009 2:55 pm

But i can understand their frustration.surely like them, i've stopped to count how many unfair calls where whistled against french teams this season.
i'm not a fan of the "boycott solution" which would penalize french and european rugby but french clubs should speak with erc about some "referee anomalies"
if they didn't "moan" nothin will change i think
paul May 28, 2009 2:57 pm

Gavin May 28, 2009 3:07 pm

and Saints are...saints or angels
To fight u need 2 sides. Sky is defintly very impressive to rebuild reality
frenchpolak May 28, 2009 3:11 pm

For some reason many say the french fight pathetically, which sounds awfully ironic coming from the people seemingly against fighting.
They also seem to forget that the Top 14 has the highest international player ratio, so not only the french jump in. But overall you're right Scotty, was quite hypocritical of me.
Les Francais parlent aux Francais:
Ca sert absolument a rien de se prendre la tete avec quelques connards planqus derriere leurs ordis, ils ne comprendront jamais et vous jouez leur jeu en rpondant.
frenchpolak May 28, 2009 3:20 pm

I think mitch should have stuck to "First Comment!!" as most would've done.
paul May 28, 2009 3:36 pm

paul May 28, 2009 3:38 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 3:39 pm

Kevin May 28, 2009 3:43 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 4:21 pm

Bad Team of Northampton: cheater and dangerous
Bourgoin was stealen by the ref..
No card for the last dangerous tackle of Northampton!!!
Northampton don't deserve the cup
Get it out May 28, 2009 4:48 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 4:58 pm

really i dont think the irish would show favoritisim towards the english in any way shape or form
Ben May 28, 2009 5:07 pm

But it's fascinating how skysport commentators are biased:
they say "bagarre generale" for a struggle begun by Best
"Best is not happy with that because he was punched" as Best was very angry with the referee (it's forbidden to yell to the referee i thought)
"saints are angry because they take punchs" because bourgoin players are happy to take some..?
Frenchpolak, you're right, but there is some truth that some people must read
HM May 28, 2009 5:12 pm

I'm surprised they didn't just run up a white flag and collaborate...
Anonymous May 28, 2009 5:31 pm

Ally May 28, 2009 7:09 pm

I do not for one moment think either Best or Lawes are saints (pun fully intended), but both were hit in the off-the-ball incidents with what I would consider underhand cheap shots.
I think Murray should be applauded for his restraint and composure (particularly as he is a guy who plays in the trenches - self-control is not normally a characteristic).
The French player should get a very hefty ban (utterly unacceptable unprovoked punch and then his attitude to the referee). Disappointed in the Bourgoin captain - breaking up fights just to get some free punches in is hardly leadership.
All in all Bourgoin got exactly what they deserved - they lost the match and a player.
Anonymous May 28, 2009 7:41 pm

Anonymous May 28, 2009 8:19 pm

Ben May 28, 2009 9:37 pm

I'm not here to advocate his actions, but I just want to point out that if you saw one of your friends and team mates getting smashed and that the ref didn't say anything, to that you add the pressure of the European Challenge final which was the only thing that could save your team's season, then I'm not sure that many of you wouldn't have tried to retaliate on Lawes (well, excepted for the scrumhalves out there, Lawes is a freaking beast after all ^^), he saw an opportunity, he seized it. That was definitely a mistake but it is human nature. Just as when Lawes tackled that guy in the ads later on, his only view was to retaliate from what Bourgoin's player made to him. It is understandable, but in both cases not tolerable to me !
Anonymous May 28, 2009 11:02 pm

Canadian Content May 28, 2009 11:15 pm

Oles May 28, 2009 11:46 pm

C'est de bouffer de la merde toute la journe ou de pas avoir eu un rayon de soleil depuis 300 ans qui vous rend si aigris bande de putes?
Salespds May 28, 2009 11:49 pm

Pas besoin d'aller chez Mme Tussaud's pour voir le muse de l'horreur, allez juste Hyde Park
gleesob May 29, 2009 1:32 am

caucau's no.1 fan May 29, 2009 2:45 am

Anonymous May 29, 2009 2:53 am

I'd rather see the French win over the English, because I hate the English rugby team on principle and I've always liked the French attitude to running rugby (something they've lost a little in recent years).
But in this case, Lawes' hit was fine, perfectly legal.
The punches all seem to have been thrown by French players.
Now that's fine, no one died, it was just a few punches.
But it reflects badly on the professionalism and discipline of the French players and team. You can't win rugby matches if you're getting carded and giving awya penalties for bad discipline.
South Africa were renowned for cheap shots, punching, spitting, eye gouging, anything to hurt the other team, and it cost them many test matches and a couple of world cups. When they finally got that aspect out of their rugby, they went on to win the world cup, and are now a terrifying prospect. The French need to do the same if they want to win world cups and club championships.
ned2or3 May 29, 2009 4:32 am

not good....
also ed check anonymous May 28 5.30 ish... not nice for the kiddies
goodNumber10 May 29, 2009 6:26 am

Rugby is a physical game and you expect there to be some points where tempers get lost and the result is the occasional handbags,
But in France you never get have two guys thump each other then walk off, it's always everyone flys in and arms start whirling.
I've even seen people punching in the tunnels as you clap each other off etc..
The Federation have been saying for years that french rugby has been cleaned up but it hasn't it's as violent now as it was in the 80's and 90's.
T. May 29, 2009 7:20 am

HERE WE TALK ABOUT RUGBY AND JUST RUGBY!!!!!
Shame on you pauv' cons
Anonymous May 29, 2009 7:46 am

awkward translation (and it scratched my arms to write in this saxon language): it's stupid and miserable to insult all the english people, when it's only english players who use provocation and referees friendship to drive mad our pour boiling players... remember the great slam in 1977:they called our magnificent team "la horde sauvage"...so when we are disciplined, they hate us too, but we win! guys, let's welcome their teams next year, and offer them the best of french flair instead of french fight
(and now I have to saxon off my mind)
Flooz May 29, 2009 8:37 am

don't insult english people in your language, it is as coward as a cheap shot.
On RD, we debate (sometimes with passion but without insults) about rugby, not about the 100 years war.
scott b May 29, 2009 8:38 am

DIRTY FRENCH BASTARDS AS ALWAYS
Flooz May 29, 2009 8:49 am

scottb u should grow up too i think..
Gareth May 29, 2009 9:33 am

http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2008/05/best-punches-visagie-croft-punches-best.html
hug May 29, 2009 10:36 am

:) May 29, 2009 10:42 am

Aren't some english insulting the french in english?
The only difference is that most of the french speak english or at least can read it, when the english seldom speak a second language.
English tourists in France are the most annoying kind. They'll never try to say a word of french, and you can't even compensate by banging their daughters as they're generally twice your weight and become like lobsters under the sun.
number7 May 29, 2009 11:04 am

Anonymous May 29, 2009 11:23 am

Cdric May 29, 2009 11:29 am

But when french rugby player give a punch is Red Card
It's more dangerous a Hight Tackle than a punch
Northampton in HCup next week??? Let me smile
Bobby May 29, 2009 11:40 am

And please take a shower you smell like shit
Anonymous May 29, 2009 12:01 pm

Anonymous May 29, 2009 12:05 pm

For no reason? Lawes deserved it. If you were on the field that day, playing for Bourgoin, if you saw your team mate being tackled that way (he was trying to hurt him bad, dont get fooled) you would react the same way. I always did but never started a fight. If most of you played rugby you should know that it doesnt matter if it is a final, youre just part of a team and youre in it till the end. No matter where youre from.
This last comment from Bobby should be removed like the others.
Anonymous May 29, 2009 1:04 pm

Anonymous May 29, 2009 1:13 pm

I feel thier should be punnishment from the IRB if they don't clean up thier game as a whole.
Anonymous May 29, 2009 1:27 pm

Hope Parra has a good summer watching the French tour from his sofa. Maybe it'll give him a bit of time think about being such a twat in the future.
Genevois hits someone from behind and still can't do a decent job, loser.
rugbysudouest May 29, 2009 1:49 pm

If u think that french are thugs, butchers, eat frogs... or that english are colonialists, cheaters, nasty well my advise is:
Quit rugby and let's do your WW3 on youtube!
Anonymous May 29, 2009 2:45 pm

Travis73 May 29, 2009 3:46 pm

C'est l'arbitre qui n'a pas su grer correctement son match et voila ce qui est arriv!
Ben May 29, 2009 4:29 pm

Anonymous May 29, 2009 5:07 pm

bunch of girly fighters they are. as for the red-carded guy, please be a man. as for Parra, take on someone your own size and you deserved that injury. loved every bit of Lawes smashing hit on Parra.
cheyanqui May 29, 2009 5:08 pm

Taking the law into your own hands when you feel the judge doesn't provide the verdict you want?
"That was definitely a mistake but it is human nature."
Six men holding down one man so another can serve justice.
Yeah, in America, we did that for centuries. The history books call it "lynching".
Genevois and the captain were chicken shits. At least have the courage to stand toe-to-toe with your opponent.
Anonymous May 29, 2009 5:13 pm

cheyanqui May 29, 2009 5:15 pm

Referee judged it to be dangerous. However, a more accurate assessment would have simply been Law 10.4(k) -- Acts Contrary to Good Sportsmanship.
That Law gives the referee broad power, and allows him to manage things that are contrary to the spirit of the game.
Given the climate of the match, the referee was perfectly reasonable to award a penalty for the hit.
cheyanqui May 29, 2009 5:17 pm

EVen if there is nothing explicit in the Law prohibiting an action on an opponent, if the referee judges it to be an Act Contrary to Good Sportsmanship, then the player is subject to penalty.
For example, nowhere in the Law does it say a player cannot spit on an opponent.
We know this ain't Tiddly Winks, but the hit was indeed meant to be Contrary to Good Sportsmanship.
It's clear the Lawes hit
Anonymous May 29, 2009 11:40 pm

Anonymous May 30, 2009 7:16 am

Anonymous May 30, 2009 7:22 am

guys, admit it, since 1977, and our undomitable "horde sauvage" which crushed your whining teams, you can't stand the french rugby,period. A violent french rugby, but made by no creatined guys. A tough and sometimes cynical rugby, won't argue with that.
and let me tell you that COURTNEY LAWES is just as a whore as COURTNEY LOVE, but probably he sings less well...
and I'm not that anonymous, I'm "perfides anglais" but google can't match my password
Anonymous May 30, 2009 10:39 am

Allez les bleus May 30, 2009 3:27 pm

English Championship are the the worst in the world
English Teams need help to the referee to wing games
Anonymous May 30, 2009 9:16 pm

Bearded Clam May 31, 2009 4:45 pm

Point can be seen as proved by 'Allez les bleus'
samitarugby May 31, 2009 7:10 pm

french rugby though so what can be expected.
Anonymous June 02, 2009 2:56 pm

No.7 June 25, 2009 3:46 am

we all know very well that lawes only ever had one intention, but really what was illegal? if that had been a french player in the oppo try area abt to score a try and lawes hit him like that then surely there would be no problem?!? right? he would have stopped the try, but im unsure as to why a penalty was awarded....
Flooz October 26, 2009 5:27 pm

Is is "rugby" to applaude free violence?
i thought hooligans didn't exist in rugby stadium.
rugby was hurt during this final...
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