Joe van Niekerk - Excuse my French

'Je me refuse a traduire ce qu'il a dit'. I can't believe they showed this on daytime tv, even if it is in English. Does anyone else think it's a bit mad though that the captain of a French club speaks English to his teammates? If I was French I'd be really annoyed.

great to see the 'frenchness' of Toulon being expressed in his use of English as a communicating first call language...

Toulon: The end of meaning and place in Rugby. And the complete magnification of rugby as money first, as a millionaire's plaything.

Here's to their relegation this year.

Always remember: munster is a place.

why is a french team having a team speech in english???

We"ll always told that at clubs which have lots of foreign players (Toulon, Brive, Stade etc) that the foreign players have to learn french. We find it hard to believe and this is the ultimate proof that they don't really have to learn. Van Niekerk is a very good player (albeit a steretypical Saffa meathead) but it is a bit ridiculous that he can't speak french after 2 years.

LOL @ all the "he must speak french" stuff.

the most common language the world over is English. The common denominator in that team is English speaking nations, there's hardly any french in there anyway with the team being made up of English, SH players. the french are the minority so why would you speak french to an predominantly English speaking squad.

Secondly, it's the end of a hard match, he's tired, he's emotional he's not going to be concentrating on speaking in anything other then his mother tongue.

good win for toloun, I'd love to see them take the championship.

just to clarify in a squad of 46, there is only 21 french speakers, and 25 non french speakers, from various countries.

Also the coaches are both english speaking, with Saint Andre working in england for how long, and Umaga being an englsih speaker.

So with new guys in the squad and an englsih speaking coaching team it's makes sense to speak english.

Yes i think all of them should learn french the same way i've had to, just to really immerse themselves in the french culture, but I can understand that englsih is used when it comes to game time over half your squad and coaching staff are English speaking and

Van Niekerk = typical SA Dutch meathead

I am sure he was thinking of the young boys in close vicinity while he was making that "speech".

@goodNumber10:
Based on population, Chinese Mandarin is the most commonly spoken language in the world. Spanish follows in second place, English is third, and Bengali is fourth.

So you where only off by 2 places :)

@ Boomshaka: The key there is "by population. There's alot of chinese people in China but how many other countries speak Chinese?

i love a devoted captain, good man. WILKOS BACK!!!

Toulon is about as French as Chelsea is English. It's not a travesty, but as Kearney for tests said, if I were French and on that team, I'd be a little annoyed - but I'd have a look at my paycheck and quickly get over it.

Yeah, there's some great French talent, but there's also a shitload of foreign talent - paid to play some good rugby and entertain the crowds.

Also, I'm a bit confused - what is Umaga's role in Toulon now that he isn't head coach? Or is he? Again...I'm confused.

" we're fking rouge et noir "
absolutly hilarious!!!!!!!

great game, specially by wilko

otherwise; the squad is beginning to bond together very well, so i have high hopes for the rest of the season (im a toulon fan with a hols house there)

im just a bit sad i couldnt go because i had SCHOOOOL in lux, arrgh

as chabal said: WE ARE IN FRANCE, WE SPEAK FRENCH!!

When you come to my country you speak my country's language. Same for all of you fat Brits/Americans when you come to Paris. Otherwise don't expect anything more than taking your money.
Bicthes

Rouges et fucking Noirs. Nuff said, joe you're a Toulon legend.
About the french/english debate, a lot of jealousy from poor clubs aroud the RD world here.
Yeah "identity" is one shitty way to compensate for having a shit team.
I give mine two years top to kick your teams arses

BTW Joe's lingo is Afrikaans and i would love to see you speak Afrikaans angryfrenchman when you come to South Africa moron. i am sure in some place they speak English a bit more than french to speak with foreigners.

BTW Joe's first language is Afrikaans second is English.

If you don't weant them speaking English, stop signing English speaking players and watch the standard of your comp plummet.

It's a shame that a french's team first langauage is english, but, mates, this is what globalization is all about. As far as Toulon play good rugby and hopefully upset the pnky pussies of Stade Francais, I'll back them.
P.S: Has Van Niekerk shaved his eyebrows?

LOL...is there such a thing as an angry french man?

fok julle

Jeez thats a ugly accent

I find the biggest SA haters are the ANZACS and the Irish. Grow up lads, your precious O'driscoll doesn't even compare to our Fourie.

I find alot of Saffer who say random things without any basis in fact.
Grow up lads, your inferiority complex is showing.

"@goodNumber10:
Based on population, Chinese Mandarin is the most commonly spoken language in the world. Spanish follows in second place, English is third, and Bengali is fourth.

So you where only off by 2 places :)"

Actually Boomshaka (great name b the way)

Mandarin and Sapnish are the most commonly spoken as a native tongue, not the most commonly spoken world wide when you take into account those taught as second languages etc...

In the starting line up for Toloun there was only 4 french speaking players.

Why speak french?

I think it's also worth pointing out for the sake of all the winey nationalists on this forum that if you go to the toloun website and watch their post match interviews they are all in french, even with none native speakers.

@ Kearney for tests :
Does anyone in U.K., S.A., N.Z or USA think it's a bit mad though that a chef of a restaurant kitchen speaks in french to his employee ? If I was english, i'd be really annoyed ! LOL !

Detail : Joe Van Niekerk as Tana Umaga and JM Fernandez-Lobbe speaks a pretty good french. Tana's childrens are really perfectly bilingual.

Jamie Robinson, Jonny Wilkinson, Joe El Abd, and Tom May are speaking french fluently !

Few Toulon new players are not speaking french but are learning.

Clermont coach is shouting from the bench in english too.

To Jon,

I see you didn't even bother arguing that Fourie is the better center than O'driscoll.

I guess there is an difference between playing Italy and Scotland every year and playing the All Blacks/Wallabies.

There is also a difference between winning a World Cup and getting kicked out in the group stages. Shame.

FYI - Joe Van Niekerk is NOT Afrikaans. His first language is English. His father was Afrikaans, hence the surname, but Joe is as typical an English speaking Joburg boy as they come.

His French at this stage is probably even better than his Afrikaans I'm pretty sure. :P

Jon, inferiority complex? lol okay buddy.. if you say so.

I'll comment again once I've finished polishing all those trophies in the cabinet.

Haha, fair call.

Waz the fuss all about ?? let them speak whatever they wanna speak...
I'm not sure Capello always speaks in english when coaching for England...
What would be the point of Joe speaking bad french if most of the players wouldn't understand ?
I'm french and have no problem seeing this (meme si "enculay" is funny :P) especially in today's world...
Or else, lez be extreme and take out all the english terms we have in French... and lez go back to courriel instead of email and so on ^^

Hey Anonymous Saffer,

Firstly I'm an Aussie, we've never been knocked out in the group stages.
And I have nothing against South Africa, they've got the best team in the world at the moment, and good luck to them.
I was just saying that your thing about Aussies and Irish hating South Africa is nuts.
You're winning, what are you whinging about, just enjoy it.

I'm a South African and I agree with Chabal, in France at least try to speak French. But then I am Afrikaans and very aware how globalisation and English can smother your language.

lol I'm not Irish but who said O'Driscol doesn't compare to Fourie? hahahaha good one mate...

anyway, let them speak whatever language they like, as long as they play well.

Well said Dave, well said - it's funny how everyone is jealous of this SA side just because they are TOPS and this from a neutral fan. It's making me want to cheer on the Boks when they play all other teams but mine. Bril team, Bril players - end of!

@angryfrenchman
Thanks for this stunningly elaborate and educated comment. Makes us other 'happyfrenchmen" so proud of sharing our gene pool with you. Would love to see you in a non French-speaking environment.
Typical.

Back to the main topic Joe vN is indeed pretty fluent in French but it was clearly an emotional moment with mostly an English speaking crowd. No complain about the choice of language then. That being said, from a supporters' perspective, players are always a bigger hit when they try their best with the host language. Clearly a better way to become part of the club as a whole. Except if the Wilkomania triggers a sudden interest for English in Toulon!

I reckon there'll be more and more French words slipping into his speeches throughout the season:
"On va f***** gagner ce game et ce championship" Speaking French Canadian at the end! (no offense to the cousins in Quebec!). :-)

Im not sure it wouldve mattered what language he spoke in.

The sentiment and the way he delivered it was unmistakable.

when can we get the highlights from the game!? looking forward to that.

Very "interesting" commentaries
some english-speaking buds here, seem to think that english should be the first language in top 14...

I reckon immadiately a poor imperialist mentality...
The fact that Van niekerk speak english is normal. Toulon and Brive are 2 teams with a lot of nationalities. as a french it doesn't bore me. what's boring, is the poor "english tourist" judgements about what should be the world.

i thought english would have grown up since eurostar, european union, mixity... but some, still think like islanders.

I'm french and don't give a fuck about what language he's speaking, the important thing is that Joe Van Niekerk plays with such passion, he gives all for his jersey and he's highly respected in France for that, as carter was when playin for Perpignan.

Jon Smit or Montgomery or Matfield were not respected by French supporters, not because they didn't speak French, but because they didn't show any love for the club and their fans.They were just here for the big check, shame!

Like someone already said Joe van Niekerk is English speaking and not Afrikaans and this nancy boy was raised by his mommy. It's also pretty lame to call Afrikaners meat heads or Dutchmen seeing as Afrikaners forefathers are from Dutch, German, French etc. descent.

furthermore, to some people here

Top 14 is not guilty of the poor interest of guinness premiership..
The salary cap is not an excuse for english players exodus. it's not their fault if they want to play an other rugby...

rugby crossed the channel a long time ago

@ Boomshaka: have u ever been to China? They are all desperate to speak English... NOT Spanish lol! They even ask you if they can practice with you! As english IS the international language. its estimated that soon 1 in 3 chinese will speak english.
Everyone wants to learn to speak english if they wanna become anything, its just they way thinks are.
Other languages are great but English is THE language... sorry.

@dr

Nothing to be sorry about, plain facts your stating here.

Still happy I don't live on a boring rainy island.

Cheers from Montpellier

@ dr:

And why is english THE language mate????? Can you argue a bit? It's your own opinion fool, don't tell it as a statement

van niekerk is a fukin legend, love him!

to dr,

Dr,thank u, i couldn't find words (english words so..) to explain what a dumb english islander was about.
Finally, ur vision of the chinese did the job.

So, again, thank u very very much to help us to understand THE world with England ;-)

its simple: spoken english in this context represents the globalisation of rugby.
Globalisation has many positive and negatives. One negative is the homogenisation of all cultures and corollary the erosion of meaningful identities.

In its economic form, its why almost everyone reading this now earns less than they did this time last year.

Rugby still has the vestiges of identity, as it only professionalised in the 90s. Thus places like south wales and munster have a rugby culture.

Remember for fans its all about identity. When it isn't for the players, eventually it becomes pointless. Its then One step off my son getting me to watch replays of tries he scores on playstation rugby, as thou they were real: (thankfully he plays too!)

Toulon represent the worst excesses of money first in rugby: they are the vanguard of the bad bits of globalisation.

Munster, on the other hand, have a decent balance. Not closed off, not swamped.

Thus, here's to the relegation of toulon this year.

Joe van Niekerk is playing rugby in France,hes not there to go to univarsity,so let the bloke speak whatever language the want BTW.....anything is better than french....fucknig softcocks

"Very "interesting" commentaries
some english-speaking buds here, seem to think that english should be the first language in top 14...

I reckon immadiately a poor imperialist mentality...
The fact that Van niekerk speak english is normal. Toulon and Brive are 2 teams with a lot of nationalities. as a french it doesn't bore me. what's boring, is the poor "english tourist" judgements about what should be the world.

i thought english would have grown up since eurostar, european union, mixity... but some, still think like islanders."

This is typical xenophobic french nationalist mentality, our language is dying everyone else is to blame.

Of course everyone should learn every language world wide not just one transferable language but seeing as that is impossible unless you are a linguist - and most people aren't - most people will stick to one language and that by default is english.

That's not the English tourists island mentality that's just a sad fact because it's a well traveled language unlike French.

You ask someone directions in Paris in a language other then french or English - most people instinctively switch to English, why because it's the most commonly taught second language.

If only people knew how similar the two languages actually are eh?

Anyway this is a rugby forum why are we talking about the death of a romantic language?

@ JP :

You're just a pathetic racist idiot.

And to everyone thinking that the french are moaning about the supposed fact that the french language is dying : trust me, the huge majority of french people really doesn't care about that, we don't pretend french to become the language of the globalisation! Is french dying in France? As far as i know, i don't think so!

Why has no one pointed out the irony of the French people (or Frogs as I like to call them with deep affection) on here arguing in English about whether he should be speaking English or not.....?

C'est vraiment tout fait incroyable.

I just enjoy the rugby, whatever language they are speaking (frankly I have found it easier to understand some French people speaking English than Welsh!). :)

This is a bigger potty mouth than Eddie O'Sullivan and Paul O'Connell combined.

"@ JP :

You're just a pathetic racist idiot.

And to everyone thinking that the french are moaning about the supposed fact that the french language is dying : trust me, the huge majority of french people really doesn't care about that, we don't pretend french to become the language of the globalisation! Is french dying in France? As far as i know, i don't think so!"

Well you should know if you live in France.

It's constant cross pollination with Arabic, African and other immigrant languages has led to it diluting hugely. You're own president was on TV and in the press last year saying how much the French language needs to be protected form these outside influences before it disappears all together. You even have a quota on all Radio and TV stations for french speaking programming and overdub all TV programs instead of subtitling them like every other country in the world does.

I live and work in France, i get nothing but "why do you not speak better french" from all the french people i work with and with french people i meet in bars and play rugby with - the simple answer is because i don't need to.

France is the only country in NATO to refuse to work in english, and have since time memorial called French the language of diplomacy (now there is an oxymoron in itself).

Maybe you don't realise this being a French person living in France but form an outsiders point of view French media is currently under a siege mentality - funny considering their original drive for Europeanisation (is that even a word?)

I'm sure you'll wave the racist flag again but you couldn't be further from the truth. I Love living here, it's fantastic, i think people should learn another language, should travel, and that cross pollination of society and cultures is nothing but beneficial to any nation. I just think in this instance all the idiots getting on their high horse about one guys speaking englsih to 12 other English guys and 3 french guys are completely overreacting.

@ goodnumber10 :

You're absolutely right, but you should know certain things if you live in France :

2- The government choices doesn't reveal at all the people mentality : that's not because the president think that french is dying that everybody does. You know that a french president is like a king, his concerns are not the ones of someone's everyday life (not sure of my english, hope you understand me). He lives in his "palais" and tries to work for the greatness of France: that's bullshit and "blabla", he's totally out of the reality of things.

2-If you look carefully, 99% of the comments here saying "why is a french team having a team speech in english???" or "Does anyone else think it's a bit mad though that the captain of a French club speaks English to his teammates? If I was French I'd be really annoyed" come from British or english speakink guys, not french guys.

3- I didn't know that Africans or Arabs languages were about to replace french in France! No, seriously, you really think that??? Am i about to speak "wolof" (senegal's tribe language) soon??

Whatever, cheers man and have fun in france, glad to know that you're enjoying my country, and i hope you'll keep the best and not the worst of it! ;)

rodolfe, i love it here, it's a great country.

where are you based?

all i meant by the influx of immigrant languages is that it's being absorbed into the native french dialect mutating it and changing it so it's no longer classic french, in the same way englsih has absorbed Caribbean and Asian influences and so on...

not that African dialect and such is replacing french but mutating it away from what is considered french.

For example, It's a well known fact that the worst thing you can do with a group of non native English speakers is introduce a mother tongue englsih speaker as our language has diluted so drastically from formal English that we are no longer the best speakers of our own language.

good discussion when it's done sensibly, kudos to you.

to good number 10

i'm quite astonished about ur comments.
so i would advise u to read an other time what i wrote before treating people of nationalimsm or racism...

but u're right we are on a rugby forum and my remarks aimed few people here. Ur answer proved that i was not far from reality

long life to rugby of every countries
read again but read well please

@Flooz, I read again, and i stand by what i said. your post is as ignorant as the people you are denouncing.

"i thought english would have grown up since eurostar, european union, mixity... but some, still think like islanders."

especially when followed by your bigoted statements about englsih tourists etc... etc... etc... blah blah blah!

Blame Canada
Blame Canada

With all their beady little eyes
And flapping heads so full of lies

Blame Canada
Blame Canada

It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since Canada came along

Gotta love big Joe, having a storming season with Toloun and back to his best after many years. No it isnt for kids, but surely someone at the TV station would have recognised at least a bit of what he was saying?

Btw to previous post, what the fuck? Why quote South Park here? Strange child

"good"number 10

u seem to be a great fan of the copy&paste and the out of context

england is full of great people, but there are some exceptions, like in france, china, germany,
whatever, read ur comments about "english predominance" and think about it

that said, continue to enjoy yourself with that, we will prefer to speak about rugby..

end of the story
cheers

@ Rodofle.

Im not a racist,racism is a crime a crime is for...................

lets not forget.the french teams are buying these players from around the world to improve the french league,right or wrong?
some people make it sound as if Joe VN is a asylum seeker messing up the culture.
Point is....the club WANTED him,PAYED him and im sure than no where is the clause is agreed that he has to speak french.
BTW...when Frederich Michalak played for the Natal sharks he couldnt speak a work afrikaans,and did we pissed in our pants abot it ?????? NO...WE DID NOT.
peace !!!

@ jp :

You'll never see any frenchman blaming Joe Van Niekerk for not speaking french with his teammates, specially when you see how respected he is in Toulon and in France generally. Nobody's asking him to speak french in every occasion, you're mistaking which is understandable cause you certainly never spoke to a french supporter.

And for the racist thing, you have the right to be racist, not my fukin problem. But assume your racism cause to me when you say something like this : "anything is better than french....fucknig softcocks" you're something close to racist. But again i don't care, be yourself, be racist if you feel good like that.

To all the idiots who keep reposting this: English is NOT the most commonly spoken language in the world. It's Mandarin Chinese, ffs. 'Je me refuse a traduire ce qu'il a dit' haha. Quit crying about what language the meat-head used before a rugby game...

It's not the first french team to do that. And van Niekerk may speak french, but all the Contepomi, Wulf, Sackey etc may not. But you can't say it's money and not rugby: I don't like Toulon (I live nearby and they're stupid) but, in rugby, you can't win if you are not a team. You can bring all the money, if your players doesn't make a real team, who can suffer, loose and win together you'll do nothing. Toulon's -very- good results came win Saint-Andr. Before their were good players, but no team spirit. It's not a shame to understand and try to use another language than yours: you should try once! :)

In Toulon, players from all countries and cultures are welcome, so all languages are welcome too but english is the most common in the team. Even Philipe Saint-Andr the manager (who was manager of an english team for five years) frequently speaks english when he give instructions to the team.

I think the worlds most common language should be rugby.

In some parts of South Africa, this is considered the cerebral approach to motivation.