Monday, November 16, 2009
Bryan Habana cited for alleged kick on Vincent Clerc
Springbok wing Bryan Habana has been cited for an alleged kick on Vincent Clerc during the Test between France and South Africa in Toulouse on Friday night.
The French achieved a famous 20-13 win in the South of France, but once again there's been another citing after a weekend of international rugby.
Habana is accused of kicking out at Clerc, who was lying on the floor at the time.
The case will be heard by the International Rugby Boards disciplinary committee on Wednesday.
According to citing commissioner for the match, Scott Nowland from Australia, Habana contravened Law 10.4 (c), which covers kicking an opponent.
With the clamp down on foul playing currently taking place, Habana may find himself banned for a lengthy period if deemed to be guilty. The recommended entry level for kicking an opponent is four weeks. That would mean he'd miss out on the upcoming Test against Italy, as well as the clash with Ireland the following week.
It will be interesting to see what the outcome of the decision is, considering that it wasn't as clear cut as one might think. One could say that judging by Habana's reaction, Damien Traille may well have pulled the wingers leg towards him, either intentionally or when trying to pull himself up.
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17/11/09 UPDATE:
Bryan Habana has been cleared of foul play and is free to play against Italy this weekend.
The IRB's judicial officer for the match, Lorne Crerar, considered a series of video clips as well as the player's explanation and was unable to determine, upon the balance of probabilities, that Habana had deliberately kicked Clerc.
A statement issued by the Six Nations disciplinary committee, which oversees the European November internationals, said that a "detailed examination of the video clips shows the upward body movement of France number 15 (Damien Traille) while gripping the lower leg of Bryan Habana, pulling Habana's leg towards him and the prostrate player (Clerc)".
Time: 01:14
Posted at 4:38 pm | 131 comments
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Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play
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Viewing 131 comments
Kearney for tests November 16, 2009 6:25 pm
The French guy, Traille I think, actually pulled Habana's leg I think towards him, so he really shouldn't be cited. However, if he wasn't an idiot and didn't start pushing people for no reason he could have avoided the whole thing.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 6:29 pm
if habana gets a 4 week ban for that its a disgrace it was more of a nudge than a kick! habana seems like a genuine guy the only time i can ever think of him doing something outside the laws is when he took montgomery out in the air in a super 14 game!
bras November 16, 2009 6:36 pm
For sure its Damien Traille who pulls Habana's leg!Greetings from Holland
Anonymous November 16, 2009 6:40 pm
It's a pull as you can see he uses his upperbody to pull habana's leg towards him...
Thomas The Tank Engi November 16, 2009 6:46 pm
I think this whole issue should be taken really seriously - if someone is at risk of being suspended for 4 weeks, and is found not guilty, surely it should then go the other way and Traille should face suspension.
If Traille did pull his leg and then try to create a fuss, he was more than willing to see Habana sent off and worse. Traille should man up now before the citing and admit he caused it, or be ready to receive a counter-four-week suspension as the perpetrator.
If Traille did pull his leg and then try to create a fuss, he was more than willing to see Habana sent off and worse. Traille should man up now before the citing and admit he caused it, or be ready to receive a counter-four-week suspension as the perpetrator.
kablamo_7 November 16, 2009 6:56 pm
not much in this, but i'll put money on he'll be missing at least one match.
Richie November 16, 2009 6:59 pm
From that angle Traille definitely pulled his leg.
Though to be honest after Carter's ridiculous citing, I wouldn't be surprised to see him banned.
Though to be honest after Carter's ridiculous citing, I wouldn't be surprised to see him banned.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 7:12 pm
Traille is the one that should be banned for this.
R.S. November 16, 2009 7:16 pm
I think Habana "kicks", but unintentionally, just to get rid of the hand at his leg. after his "kick" he looks down immediately to apologize...poor decision if he gets cited.
btw i'm german, so not biased.
btw i'm german, so not biased.
Clinomaniac November 16, 2009 7:23 pm
Didn't look malicious in my eyes.
If someone was grabbing my leg, my first reaction would be to try and shake them off.
TBH this shouldn't have even been brought forward. What a waste of money and time.
I'm Japanese BTW so no bias.
If someone was grabbing my leg, my first reaction would be to try and shake them off.
TBH this shouldn't have even been brought forward. What a waste of money and time.
I'm Japanese BTW so no bias.
Stubby November 16, 2009 7:25 pm
Habana kneed his chest probably in response to Traille hold his leg.
Traille do not pull the leg. You can tell by Habana's upper body. You tend to pull your upper body back if someone is pulling your leg and you tend to lean forward when you kick forward. Habana is leaning into the kick.
There was intent to injure, more just a "let go my leg you pervert" gesture.
Traille do not pull the leg. You can tell by Habana's upper body. You tend to pull your upper body back if someone is pulling your leg and you tend to lean forward when you kick forward. Habana is leaning into the kick.
There was intent to injure, more just a "let go my leg you pervert" gesture.
Dudley November 16, 2009 7:45 pm
he took tommy bowe out in the air during the lions is well
Joh November 16, 2009 7:47 pm
2 yellows and a ciing : thanks for setting the example, boks
Anonymous November 16, 2009 7:47 pm
I don't think it was intentionnal to kick Clerc in the face. If you look carefully Habana does'nt see him but try to kick Traille who is pulling his leg.
So IMO, the kick is intentionnal but not directed towards Clerc, but Traille, who deserved it.
That would be a ban for sure since IRB are wussies.
So IMO, the kick is intentionnal but not directed towards Clerc, but Traille, who deserved it.
That would be a ban for sure since IRB are wussies.
disillusioned November 16, 2009 7:47 pm
this is so lame, rugby really has gone downhill this year
Anonymous November 16, 2009 7:59 pm
I am biased I dont support the springboks but I dont think it was malice
cheyanqui November 16, 2009 8:12 pm
IRB should defer to Karma / Rugby Justice / Kangaroo Court rules
Frenchman #15 grabs leg.
RSA player reactive pulls it away.
French #11 takes on in the face.
Thus #15's action resulted in a kick to his own teammate.
#15 must buy all the pints at the pub.
Oh wait, professional rugby guys don't drink anymore. Oh well.
Frenchman #15 grabs leg.
RSA player reactive pulls it away.
French #11 takes on in the face.
Thus #15's action resulted in a kick to his own teammate.
#15 must buy all the pints at the pub.
Oh wait, professional rugby guys don't drink anymore. Oh well.
cheyanqui November 16, 2009 8:13 pm
I just wish there was a crazy frenchman to give it to Bismarck or Bakkies.
I support the Boks, don't get me wrong, but I'd love for their chippy play to be returned in kind by an opponent.
Bring back some hard men like Pelous, or a Califano.
I support the Boks, don't get me wrong, but I'd love for their chippy play to be returned in kind by an opponent.
Bring back some hard men like Pelous, or a Califano.
Franois November 16, 2009 8:30 pm
Why Traille is holding Habana's leg ?
First you can see Traille with both hands on the ground and Habana arguing with Mermoz. Things getting physical, Habana, unintentionally, put his knee on Damien Traille's face. Then Traille holds Habana's leg and Brian tries to free himself and kicks Clerc in the face.
Does it deserve a 4 weeks ban ? No, because it's unintentional, but it's still a foul play, so a 1 week ban could be fair enough.
But I'm biased, I'm from the French West Indies.
First you can see Traille with both hands on the ground and Habana arguing with Mermoz. Things getting physical, Habana, unintentionally, put his knee on Damien Traille's face. Then Traille holds Habana's leg and Brian tries to free himself and kicks Clerc in the face.
Does it deserve a 4 weeks ban ? No, because it's unintentional, but it's still a foul play, so a 1 week ban could be fair enough.
But I'm biased, I'm from the French West Indies.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 8:35 pm
I don't want to comment who lead H's leg, even if stubbby's arguments are not so bad and be relevant, but i would like rather to focus on the fact that this nasty gesture is definitly a result of the previous action!! Be careful while you're watching the beginning of the movie!
John F November 16, 2009 8:36 pm
But a one match ban is ridiculous. If the ref decides theres nothing there in the game, then in no way does that merit a ban, which now seems to equal a yellow card when applied after the game. What a ridiculous idea.
That was pretty much nothing though. Quick shove between Habana and Mermoz then Traille for whatever reason decides to grab Habana's leg. Habana barely moved his leg it was nothing really.
As for people saying rugby is getting softer. This is a totally different question from the line between hits and tackles. This is just overofficiating, the question over tackling without arms which might injure players though an illegal practice is a separate issue which people are talking about at the moment, nothing to do with going soft.
That was pretty much nothing though. Quick shove between Habana and Mermoz then Traille for whatever reason decides to grab Habana's leg. Habana barely moved his leg it was nothing really.
As for people saying rugby is getting softer. This is a totally different question from the line between hits and tackles. This is just overofficiating, the question over tackling without arms which might injure players though an illegal practice is a separate issue which people are talking about at the moment, nothing to do with going soft.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 8:36 pm
To begin with: i'm French and biased.
i'm sorry about Traille's move though (i honestly think he pulled the leg) and i can't explain why putting a foot in Clerc's face was a good idea. i somehow share the idea of banning Traille rather than Habana (it could be a safety measure for Clerc)
i also feel sorry for the Boks anthem but noone can put the blame on the players/FFR or see this as a true lack of respect simply because the singer was crap. i remember hearing the French anthem completely screwed up by our own singer.
still think the match was good and i'm happy to see our very young players being able to win against this awesome Bok team (the deserving World Champs) and everybody here is conscious that it was a feat.
i'm sorry about Traille's move though (i honestly think he pulled the leg) and i can't explain why putting a foot in Clerc's face was a good idea. i somehow share the idea of banning Traille rather than Habana (it could be a safety measure for Clerc)
i also feel sorry for the Boks anthem but noone can put the blame on the players/FFR or see this as a true lack of respect simply because the singer was crap. i remember hearing the French anthem completely screwed up by our own singer.
still think the match was good and i'm happy to see our very young players being able to win against this awesome Bok team (the deserving World Champs) and everybody here is conscious that it was a feat.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 8:38 pm
Just watch the Frenchman's arm, it tenses up and pulls. So obvious, I think the citing commissioner must have been a retard, well.. either retarded or hired by the IRB to get revenge on "justice" boks.
Kearney for tests November 16, 2009 8:42 pm
Actually I've lost a lot of respect for Damien Traille because of this. You can see him pretend at first that Habana kneed him in the head, then move his body in the effort of pulling his leg, and then immediately shouts about it to try and get Habana a yellow. He's just trying to pull everyone's leg.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 8:50 pm
The French guy, Traille I think, actually pulled Habana's leg I think towards him, so he really shouldn't be cited.
agreed
agreed
clem November 16, 2009 8:53 pm
Anonymous said : "This is a disgrace to the French
1. The French player clearly pulled Habana's leg. Habana is not a dirty player and will never do this.
2. Screwing up the Anthem was disrespectful.
They are clearly the most disgracefull rugby nation in the world. I can't wait for the pay back."
2 : SA embassy have choosen this singer, so stop complain with that, the french never show disrespect.
1 : Traille make a stupid movement here. but look closer at what Habana is doing just before that : the same kind of thing by pushing Mermoz without reason. Maybe he is not as pure as you wanted to. btw, i think this facts are trivial and it's just ridiculous that Habana has been cited. This happens in every matches.
I prefer remember that Clerc and Habana switch their shirts at the end.
So maybe we are "clearly the most disgraceful rugby nation in the world", (i've never heard about this title before) but the explanations you give to confirm that are a little short.
apologies for my english
1. The French player clearly pulled Habana's leg. Habana is not a dirty player and will never do this.
2. Screwing up the Anthem was disrespectful.
They are clearly the most disgracefull rugby nation in the world. I can't wait for the pay back."
2 : SA embassy have choosen this singer, so stop complain with that, the french never show disrespect.
1 : Traille make a stupid movement here. but look closer at what Habana is doing just before that : the same kind of thing by pushing Mermoz without reason. Maybe he is not as pure as you wanted to. btw, i think this facts are trivial and it's just ridiculous that Habana has been cited. This happens in every matches.
I prefer remember that Clerc and Habana switch their shirts at the end.
So maybe we are "clearly the most disgraceful rugby nation in the world", (i've never heard about this title before) but the explanations you give to confirm that are a little short.
apologies for my english
Hooker_ November 16, 2009 8:55 pm
nah, you can see he apologizes straight away, that would be an insane citing
Obed November 16, 2009 8:58 pm
Definetly his leg is being pulled. This is becoming the typical French game with 'Italian drama' influences. Saw the same thing with Stade and Bergamasco lying on the floor. What a disgrace...
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:00 pm
The french guy 'pulled' Habanas leg into him? Lmao. I admit Clerc had his arm around Habanas leg, but Habana definately gave him a little nudge to say let go. Definately not worthy of a ban or anything really.
I can't belive so many of you think he was able to 'pull' Habanas leg into him.
I can't belive so many of you think he was able to 'pull' Habanas leg into him.
MCB November 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Clearly kicked out. Deserves ban. Dirty play. No way did Traille pull his leg toward him. Ludicrous assumption.
Nico November 16, 2009 9:16 pm
Naah. No need for citing. A bit of a stupid move on both sides in what must have been a pretty nerve racking game. Happens all the time. Totally unnecessary but no damage done.
Mate above: we got your comment fine. :-)
Mate above: we got your comment fine. :-)
info November 16, 2009 9:20 pm
Actually mate all the SA embassy did was submit a list of South African singers based in Paris to the FFR. They chose the singer
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:23 pm
I was rooting for France, and I've gotta admit there was really nothing in that.
joshie November 16, 2009 9:29 pm
thets the most bullshit citing ive ever seen he just tapped him cos he was holding his leg! and I stand with u TennisMan!!
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:29 pm
the problem with counter-four-week suspension is then there will be no one left in a team because every player holds on to the opponent at ruck's. imagine how many people would get suspended after playing Richie mccaw it would be a joke. i don't even think anything should happen to either player.
RD November 16, 2009 9:30 pm
Lets remember to be mature and use common sense when commenting please.
Also don't forget that Anonymous comments (especially the derogatory kind) will be removed.
Thanks
Also don't forget that Anonymous comments (especially the derogatory kind) will be removed.
Thanks
theboss November 16, 2009 9:33 pm
Traille definitely pulls the leg in, clearly looking for an easy penalty. Habana is definitely not that sort of player. The pushing is all gamesmanship and happens in every game, but the kick was from Traille pulling the leg, no doubt!
As an Ireland fan I'm hoping Habana doesn't get done for this! We want a full SA team out in 2 weeks time in Croker!
As an Ireland fan I'm hoping Habana doesn't get done for this! We want a full SA team out in 2 weeks time in Croker!
clem November 16, 2009 9:34 pm
info said :
"Actually mate all the SA embassy did was submit a list of South African singers based in Paris to the FFR. They chose the singer"
If "they" means the FFR, it's wrong. FFR pick a name on a list of singers who have been chosen by SA embassy : that means the embassy approve this singer to perform for the test match (or at least KNOW the guys on the list).
FFR always act like that when France play home. It's the first time there is a problem.
"Actually mate all the SA embassy did was submit a list of South African singers based in Paris to the FFR. They chose the singer"
If "they" means the FFR, it's wrong. FFR pick a name on a list of singers who have been chosen by SA embassy : that means the embassy approve this singer to perform for the test match (or at least KNOW the guys on the list).
FFR always act like that when France play home. It's the first time there is a problem.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:42 pm
If they can't see that the Frenchman pulled his leg, which is super clear in the reverse angle, and they go ahead and penalize him, I will from this day onward agree that the IRB have it in for South Africa and are a bunch of corrupt douchebags.
TennisMan November 16, 2009 9:44 pm
Are you with me mr. Anon? I will support your theory of the IRB picking on SA, it's like how the authorities used to pick on John McEnroe
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:48 pm
Notice how the frenchman looks up at Habana then wraps his arm around his leg and then there's a sudden pull.
So obvious its almost comical.
So obvious its almost comical.
No.7 November 16, 2009 9:50 pm
Guys i think to say the frenchmen pulled his leg and that the irb is corrupt etc is a bit daft.
I mean, you dont know how it happened.....it looks like a pull but he could have easily put a kick in....and really if you were clerc you'd be hard done by if they penlised you because they 'thought' you pulled his leg.....
The other side of the coin is yes it could have been a pull......
Personally i think they should rule it inconclusive and get on with the fooking game.....because it was weak wasnt it? i mean really, if someone kicked you like that in a game you'd probably laugh!
.....sorry a lot of people are saying Damie Traille got kicked....doesnt the title say Vincent Clerc? or is that wrong?
I mean, you dont know how it happened.....it looks like a pull but he could have easily put a kick in....and really if you were clerc you'd be hard done by if they penlised you because they 'thought' you pulled his leg.....
The other side of the coin is yes it could have been a pull......
Personally i think they should rule it inconclusive and get on with the fooking game.....because it was weak wasnt it? i mean really, if someone kicked you like that in a game you'd probably laugh!
.....sorry a lot of people are saying Damie Traille got kicked....doesnt the title say Vincent Clerc? or is that wrong?
TennisMan November 16, 2009 9:51 pm
I think we should organise a RD event, where all us users can meet up face-to-face. Im thinking Italy in February
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:56 pm
honestly if you can't see from the reverse angle that the french guy pulled habana's leg there might be a job for you at the IRB
Anonymous November 16, 2009 9:57 pm
WTF - the french are making our lovely game into a football oscar show - DISGRACEFUL!!!
Kearney for tests November 16, 2009 9:57 pm
When's the French Open on TennisMan? I wouldn't mind going to France.
durrie November 16, 2009 9:58 pm
Absolute Joke if Bryan gets banned for this...
French 15 is DEFINATELY responsible for Habana's leg movement...
The Reaction of the French 15 after the incident was also far too cool for a player if he had really been kneed by an opponent after such a fiercly contested ruck...
He just casually got up and walked towards the 3rd official (touch jude) almost wishing him into saying something...if the incident were real he would have demanded an explination out of the officials who were both right there watching the whole thing...
French 15 is DEFINATELY responsible for Habana's leg movement...
The Reaction of the French 15 after the incident was also far too cool for a player if he had really been kneed by an opponent after such a fiercly contested ruck...
He just casually got up and walked towards the 3rd official (touch jude) almost wishing him into saying something...if the incident were real he would have demanded an explination out of the officials who were both right there watching the whole thing...
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:00 pm
if that was a kik. it was just a tap. blimey
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:00 pm
The IRB are like security gaurds who never made the police force!
Assholes who never made it at the top level, but have to keep reminding brilliant players that if they play good solid hard rugby - they will be cited, cited, cited..such a shame for rugby. Why don't we make the pitch a trampoline so no one gets hurt!!!!
Assholes who never made it at the top level, but have to keep reminding brilliant players that if they play good solid hard rugby - they will be cited, cited, cited..such a shame for rugby. Why don't we make the pitch a trampoline so no one gets hurt!!!!
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:00 pm
who is to say the frenchmen isnt holding habanas leg tight and habana pushes his leg into him, therefore moving his body.....
really, you were in that situation, you dont know it all, and you arent clerc or habana......so really you dont have a clue!
really, you were in that situation, you dont know it all, and you arent clerc or habana......so really you dont have a clue!
Greiffel November 16, 2009 10:01 pm
@ No.7 - Clerc is the one who supposedly got kicked, but it's Traille who had his arm around Habana's leg..
TennisMan November 16, 2009 10:01 pm
I believe its May 23rd - June 6th, 2010, we could do that, watch the open and have our gathering!
Shaft November 16, 2009 10:03 pm
Have fun with your new 12 year old pal Kearneyfortests ;)
Btw.. now that he's a Lion, and an Ireland regular, time for a name change? :)
Btw.. now that he's a Lion, and an Ireland regular, time for a name change? :)
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:08 pm
"who is to say the frenchmen isnt holding habanas leg tight and habana pushes his leg into him, therefore moving his body....."
Because we look for things like... muscle movement...
Because we look for things like... muscle movement...
MCB November 16, 2009 10:12 pm
Actually after viewing it again it does look like traille pulled Habana's leg. Disciplinary outcome will be criticised either way
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:24 pm
No way Habana did it on purpose. That French pulled his leg. Habana didn't want the accident end up becoming a brawl and he shown that there was no intention.
mako November 16, 2009 10:31 pm
Comming from an AB's boy, Habana is the last person to ever do something like that, Great player with a great attitude.
The frenchie grabbed his leg and tried to get a penalty or card out of it... cheeky play!
The frenchie grabbed his leg and tried to get a penalty or card out of it... cheeky play!
cat17 November 16, 2009 10:33 pm
Some comments here are just ridiculous, meaning that Traille dill his pull to get a penalty is just plain bullshit...(the penalty was already french by the way)...
For some of those great rugby followers Traille should be ban (what a disgrace etc..), Hey back to earth guy, how many weeks for a leg pulled?
Traille grab his leg, Habana move is leg, in the head of Clerc, no intention no suspension ...
For some of those great rugby followers Traille should be ban (what a disgrace etc..), Hey back to earth guy, how many weeks for a leg pulled?
Traille grab his leg, Habana move is leg, in the head of Clerc, no intention no suspension ...
Bill November 16, 2009 10:38 pm
Nothing at all in this, the French guy grabs his leg and habana kicks to try to get him off.
That's it.
No ban, just let it go.
That's it.
No ban, just let it go.
sebastian November 16, 2009 10:41 pm
hmm i dunno, i go with the no. 15 having to buy the first round down at the pub and no. 11 the second
Cameron Maxted November 16, 2009 10:43 pm
hey whats next are they going to cite Paulu for making tackle on Kearny? or are they gonna cite Benny Robinson for driving the Irish scrum backwards 20 meters? Its a contact sport and accidents will happen the irb should grow up
Irb is a joke
Irb is a joke
Anonymous November 16, 2009 10:57 pm
Looks like Traille is getting up but holds on to Habana and I think Habana just kicks to get Traille off his legs but doesn't look when he actually makes contact with Clerc. But a stupid thing to do either way. Traille and Clerc would not have reacted so angrily if it was just a pull by Traille. How does Bryan being cited for this mean the game is getting soft? If a guy is on the ground without the ball it's okay to just kick him?
Anonymous November 16, 2009 11:01 pm
"The French achieved a famous 20-13 win in the South of France"
Could someone please explain to me how this could be classed as a famous win?
Yes S.A are World Champions, but France are a class act. (And thats coming from an Englishman.)They are a completely different team from the one we seen in the past 6 Nations. They should be expected to win at home in France with the players and support that they have.
Bit of southern-hemisphere bias there I think.
Could someone please explain to me how this could be classed as a famous win?
Yes S.A are World Champions, but France are a class act. (And thats coming from an Englishman.)They are a completely different team from the one we seen in the past 6 Nations. They should be expected to win at home in France with the players and support that they have.
Bit of southern-hemisphere bias there I think.
Anonymous November 16, 2009 11:10 pm
Didn't get to see this game, the breakdown looks savage
Anonymous November 16, 2009 11:24 pm
to anybody who still can't see that it was a leg pull - watch the vid again and keep focused on the french guy with his arm around habana's leg.
cheers,
let's see if the irb can get this one right
cheers,
let's see if the irb can get this one right
popeye November 16, 2009 11:29 pm
After watching a few times, I do think it was Traille that pulled the leg. At first, during the match, I thought for sure Habana kicked Clerc - Habana has become a bit of a hothead recently, but then on the replay, I thought maybe it was Traille grabbed Habana's leg and Habana jerked it and accidentally hit Clerc. Now, I can imagine what happened as Habana's knee touched Traille's face (not with any force behind it, it seems), Traille took offence, and did what someone usually does when on the ground being kicked at - he grabbed the leg and tried to pull Habana off balance.
Anyways, I think they should have a laugh about it instead of consider a sanction - who are these assholes handing out bans and citings all the time? It seems like half of them aren't even merited....
Anyways, I think they should have a laugh about it instead of consider a sanction - who are these assholes handing out bans and citings all the time? It seems like half of them aren't even merited....
Frenchy November 16, 2009 11:49 pm
Clearly a kick to his opponent on the floor, not a hard one, but an annoying one. Habana should be cited, period. Go on France!
istya November 16, 2009 11:58 pm
Anyone who thinks that Bryan Habana's leg could be pulled up like that against his will is obviously over-medicated. It was a kick, punishment should follow (nothing harsh, but this isn't acceptable behavior on the pitch).
Bill November 17, 2009 12:23 am
Why is it that all these dodgy calls are going against the southern teams?
dodgy yellow cards to Palu and that Samoan 15 (both legitimate hits, neither should have even been a penalty - is it a coincidence they're islanders who keep getting carded, I'm begining to wonder).
Carter suspended for an inocuous accidental head high (there's gotta be a couple of those in every single game that never get punished - as it should be - they are accidental - like Leonard getting kicked in the head by Jones, which wasn't cited).
Habana cited for inocuous kick out at a guy who's holding his leg (nothing incident - disgrace that it's being cited).
WTF is going on? Open season on southern teams cuz they win more?
dodgy yellow cards to Palu and that Samoan 15 (both legitimate hits, neither should have even been a penalty - is it a coincidence they're islanders who keep getting carded, I'm begining to wonder).
Carter suspended for an inocuous accidental head high (there's gotta be a couple of those in every single game that never get punished - as it should be - they are accidental - like Leonard getting kicked in the head by Jones, which wasn't cited).
Habana cited for inocuous kick out at a guy who's holding his leg (nothing incident - disgrace that it's being cited).
WTF is going on? Open season on southern teams cuz they win more?
Anonymous November 17, 2009 1:09 am
...SA must win with Italy,...be aware though that Mr. Castrogiovanni, SH-wrecking machine, will be there!!
Anonymous November 17, 2009 1:22 am
this is a joke, right?!...(wait for it...) You're pulling my leg right??!?!!.
Don't know if that very poor joke translates across the pond to others...
Don't know if that very poor joke translates across the pond to others...
Jimmy November 17, 2009 1:50 am
These kinds of citings and whinging over inocuous things only happen in Europe.
Is it the influence of soccer and all the gamesmenship, accepted simulation and cheating and general fairy attitudes in that sport?
Is it the influence of soccer and all the gamesmenship, accepted simulation and cheating and general fairy attitudes in that sport?
Luke November 17, 2009 2:04 am
Kearney for tests got the first comment and is exactly right. You can see Traille's lat flex and pull before Habana's leg moves. Also, why the hell else would he wrap his arm around like that.
IF ANYONE SHOULD BE CITED IT'S TRAILLE.
IF ANYONE SHOULD BE CITED IT'S TRAILLE.
Anonymous November 17, 2009 2:06 am
Wow, extremely uninteresting. Habana only scores opportunist tries nowadays, thats kind of it for him, he never really shows the pace that he was famous for a couple of years ago.
And for god's sake, its the French we're talking about, they love winding everybody up. So basically, what is there to talk about??
And if Habana gets 4 weeks, SO WHAT!? That happens in rugby, injuries, national duties (from a club perspective), citations. People say rugby is getting soft, but in all fairness its always been like this. Get on with it.
And for god's sake, its the French we're talking about, they love winding everybody up. So basically, what is there to talk about??
And if Habana gets 4 weeks, SO WHAT!? That happens in rugby, injuries, national duties (from a club perspective), citations. People say rugby is getting soft, but in all fairness its always been like this. Get on with it.
Anonymous November 17, 2009 2:54 am
"Wow, extremely uninteresting. Habana only scores opportunist tries nowadays, thats kind of it for him, he never really shows the pace that he was famous for a couple of years ago."
I can tell that you don't really understand the game, shame. He's still extremely fast and he's more well rounded than ever before. He's the best defensive winger in the world and, to be honest, may still be the best on attack. He was excellent all season, keep up to date, please.
I can tell that you don't really understand the game, shame. He's still extremely fast and he's more well rounded than ever before. He's the best defensive winger in the world and, to be honest, may still be the best on attack. He was excellent all season, keep up to date, please.
Tim November 17, 2009 2:56 am
So what eh?
That's easy for you to say, clearly South Africa is not your team.
Would you like it if players on your team got suspended for stupid irrelevant reasons for periods of four weeks? Of course you wouldn't and there's no way in hell you'd be blaze about it.
Don't be hypocritical.
That's easy for you to say, clearly South Africa is not your team.
Would you like it if players on your team got suspended for stupid irrelevant reasons for periods of four weeks? Of course you wouldn't and there's no way in hell you'd be blaze about it.
Don't be hypocritical.
Philboticus November 17, 2009 4:40 am
Jup the frenchy pulled his leg, see him contracting his back and core. He was putting power behind it while habana was relaxed and not even paying attention to the dude on the floor.
Overall very very very low of the french player, typical soccer behavior. From my point of view, he deserves te be kicked.
And still for something like that a 4 week ban, noway.
Phil - out
Overall very very very low of the french player, typical soccer behavior. From my point of view, he deserves te be kicked.
And still for something like that a 4 week ban, noway.
Phil - out
Philboticus November 17, 2009 4:49 am
After watching it again and again, seems to me he's not guilty what so ever. See him flexing his muscle, take a look at his elbow. And habana (after the "kick") even seems to be a bit off balance.
Disguisting play,
no offence to the french here.
But I've never like you and now never will. LMAO!
Disguisting play,
no offence to the french here.
But I've never like you and now never will. LMAO!
Anonymous November 17, 2009 5:17 am
Old queen from the IRB:
"Habana will get 8 weeks for that despicable act of violence"
"Habana will get 8 weeks for that despicable act of violence"
Solitude November 17, 2009 5:55 am
I am a bit surprised that people think that it's difficult to pull a leg like that, when it's not.
At rugby practice we tried it out. The way the French player was holding Habana's leg, it's very easy to pull it forward. You can see from the French player's muscle movements that it's exactly what he did.
It's disrespectful of the French player and even worse that he hasn't come forward and apologised. Now Habana is cited for something he didn't do.
That's malicious intent by the French player. He is causing harm to Habana's career. The French player should be reprimanded.
At rugby practice we tried it out. The way the French player was holding Habana's leg, it's very easy to pull it forward. You can see from the French player's muscle movements that it's exactly what he did.
It's disrespectful of the French player and even worse that he hasn't come forward and apologised. Now Habana is cited for something he didn't do.
That's malicious intent by the French player. He is causing harm to Habana's career. The French player should be reprimanded.
Jadawin November 17, 2009 6:54 am
Vicious kick
Im amazed by the the hilarious: "its the french guy who pulls Habana's leg!".
For all the neutral viewers, its look like a rather vicious kick from habana on clerc on this video
Im amazed by the the hilarious: "its the french guy who pulls Habana's leg!".
For all the neutral viewers, its look like a rather vicious kick from habana on clerc on this video
Anonymous November 17, 2009 7:15 am
Jadawin, he was gettin grabbed by the leg.
He just kicked out cuz he was being grabbed.
If you don't want to be kicked don't grab the guy's leg!
FFS!
There's nothing in this.
This is soccer rubbish.
He just kicked out cuz he was being grabbed.
If you don't want to be kicked don't grab the guy's leg!
FFS!
There's nothing in this.
This is soccer rubbish.
Anonymous November 17, 2009 8:19 am
Well before not liking the French, you should learn English grammar Philboticus.
But beyond futile debates about nationalities, Traille clearly pulls Habana's leg and he should be suspended for a few weeks.
Anyhow, I am sure nasty stuff is flying both ways. You can actually see Kankowski settling some shady business with Harinordoquy on the same video before the "kick". I just can't believe that these players are shameless enough to keep doing that kind of schoolyard crap in front of high definition cameras and such.
But beyond futile debates about nationalities, Traille clearly pulls Habana's leg and he should be suspended for a few weeks.
Anyhow, I am sure nasty stuff is flying both ways. You can actually see Kankowski settling some shady business with Harinordoquy on the same video before the "kick". I just can't believe that these players are shameless enough to keep doing that kind of schoolyard crap in front of high definition cameras and such.
felix November 17, 2009 8:47 am
agree with basically everyone - there's really nothing in this... lets move on.
miguel November 17, 2009 9:04 am
outrageous. traille should be cited for attempting to cheat. its not even as if hes tried to pull a hollywood and make an offence like a high tackle or late hit look worse then it is, but hes actually trying to deceive the referees into thinking habana is using his boot against another player or kneeing someone in the face. thats deceptive behavior designed to fool the officials into sending off a player. honestly how is any better than tom williams? Its the equivalent of grabbing someone's hand and shoving it into your face in the attempt to get them sent off
its a clear attempt at deception and traille should face a ban for it
its a clear attempt at deception and traille should face a ban for it
Anonymous November 17, 2009 9:47 am
Look at Traille's body before, during and after the movement. Ignore Habana. If you only saw that guy move you'd have to say he's pulling something.
I think he's tried to make it look like Habana kicked him. Ban Traille, there is no place for that kind of crap in the game.
I think he's tried to make it look like Habana kicked him. Ban Traille, there is no place for that kind of crap in the game.
Hennie November 17, 2009 10:37 am
What a joke! The whole citing procedure is a joke with no clear outlines on how and why players are cited. The IRB needs to start taking action against the refs too.
Dave November 17, 2009 10:52 am
Sorry to sound petty, but I found that commentator (Jamie Salmon I think), extremely snipey towards SA throughout the match. Did anyone else notice that? On this clip he says something about intent to kick, and on that Morne Steyn trip (which was debatable as it looked more likely that he leant in with the shoulder), he was going on about 'Steyn new exactly what he was doing!' etc.
Rather than supporting France, this guy just seemed to be against SA, which I found quite amateur and disappointing to hear.
As for this - only Habana and Traille will know for sure, but it didn't look like a kick to me.
Rather than supporting France, this guy just seemed to be against SA, which I found quite amateur and disappointing to hear.
As for this - only Habana and Traille will know for sure, but it didn't look like a kick to me.
Anonymous November 17, 2009 11:20 am
SA fans have their heads up their asses,he kicked out plain and simple, stop making STUPID excuses that traille caught his leg and made him do it, he was pissed that his team were getting beat,a couple of SA players were doing sneaky shit throughout the game,granted it was a soft tap but stop looking at this with rose tinted glasses,I dont think he should even get a suspension it was such a soft touch but stop making out that butter wouldnt melt in his mouth for christ sake
Dave November 17, 2009 11:48 am
^ Anonymous, I think you'll find that if you read carefully, it's not just SA fans who subscribe to that theory.
Napoleon Dynamite November 17, 2009 11:53 am
He does pull the leg...traille is a fly boy
jay November 17, 2009 11:53 am
"Traille should get suspended"... What a joke... if anybody's played you know you get thousands of little provocations such as these... so yeah sure ban him but then again revise the whole video because there's probably 40 of them to be found.
One I noticed was Botha pushing Imanol in the back, him standing up and doing the same at Brussow...all this far away from the ball...
Anyways, start banning that and you can start banning 30 players through a game.
I don't think Habana was aiming for the face and yet he answered to a provocation...
French used to be the ones to do that... only Cudmore still reponds ;P
One I noticed was Botha pushing Imanol in the back, him standing up and doing the same at Brussow...all this far away from the ball...
Anyways, start banning that and you can start banning 30 players through a game.
I don't think Habana was aiming for the face and yet he answered to a provocation...
French used to be the ones to do that... only Cudmore still reponds ;P
Helium Baggers November 17, 2009 12:51 pm
The camera's a bit misleading, it looked to me like Traille's arm wasn;t acctually connnected to Habana's leg. Also, even if he was, he lets go well before Habana makes contact with Clerc.
More petulent than malicious though, a penalty and no citing would have been fine.
Nice to see Bakkies Botha still hasn;t worked out how to join a ruck.
More petulent than malicious though, a penalty and no citing would have been fine.
Nice to see Bakkies Botha still hasn;t worked out how to join a ruck.
HappyHippos November 17, 2009 12:58 pm
Habana's putting weight on that leg with his studs dug in when Traille is supposed to have tugged his leg out - Traille would have to he very strong indeed, and Habana would have lost his balance at least temporarily. He sttays completely upright, and doesn't look too surprised, which suggests he knew precisely what he was doing.
That said, he was probably trying to get Traille's hand off, and didn;t mean to hit Clerc.
That said, he was probably trying to get Traille's hand off, and didn;t mean to hit Clerc.
Hunter November 17, 2009 1:23 pm
Coming from an Irish man who would love for Habana to be ineligible. I don't think Habana kicked him, at least not on purpose. He was trying to get the guys hands off if leg. Habana isn't guily of anything.
Justice4Bryan November 17, 2009 3:03 pm
What do you know, it must be a blue moon. JUSTICE.
Anonymous November 17, 2009 4:06 pm
All that shit for nothing.
Everybody here was getting hysterical (especially all the anti-french pigs, and God knows they're numerous)
Everybody here was getting hysterical (especially all the anti-french pigs, and God knows they're numerous)
Anonymous November 17, 2009 4:53 pm
If Habana intented to kick, I have a tip for him: next time kick harder
Anonymous November 17, 2009 7:02 pm
the commentator isn't showing any bias is he.............
pretty disgraceful on traille's part
pretty disgraceful on traille's part
Anonymous November 17, 2009 9:49 pm
Saracans juat beat the boks so thats 3-0 guy, things are starting to look pretty desperate on this tour fot both the real and the fake boks.
No.7 November 18, 2009 1:41 am
Im glad to see he was cleared....like i said its impossible to determine if he did it or not and only him and traille know the truth......it was a weak as piss kick anyway if it was one!
Anonymous November 18, 2009 5:59 am
"Saracans juat beat the boks so thats 3-0 guy, things are starting to look pretty desperate on this tour fot both the real and the fake boks."
No, not really. We don't care for the club games and a diluted Springbok team lost to France. Italy and Ireland will get smashed. At the end of the tour we'll still be the number one ranked team in the world and the Europeans will still have an inferiority complex.
No, not really. We don't care for the club games and a diluted Springbok team lost to France. Italy and Ireland will get smashed. At the end of the tour we'll still be the number one ranked team in the world and the Europeans will still have an inferiority complex.
Robert November 18, 2009 10:13 am
Saracens are our guys anyway. Not enough English lads at that level, it seems. leicester were also seriously strengthened by internationals.
Anonymous November 18, 2009 10:32 am
No, not really. We don't care for the club games and a diluted Springbok team lost to France. Italy and Ireland will get smashed. At the end of the tour we'll still be the number one ranked team in the world and the Europeans will still have an inferiority complex.
The best of the Currie cup has been humbled on this tour and your first team were humbled in France.
Call it what you like, your bok teams have lost all their games, and for you guys i know that isnt good enough in any hemisphere.
The best of the Currie cup has been humbled on this tour and your first team were humbled in France.
Call it what you like, your bok teams have lost all their games, and for you guys i know that isnt good enough in any hemisphere.
Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:19 am
the french were a bit hollywood .. but played well
ryan
ryan
Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:51 am
Best of the Currie Cup?
Do you know anything about South african rugby and the composition of their midweek team?
It's political, based on skin colour.
The irony is that the Saracens team was probably closer to a representative South African side than this SA side.
However, that is taking nothing away from strong and comendable preformances from both Leicester and Saracens.
Do you know anything about South african rugby and the composition of their midweek team?
It's political, based on skin colour.
The irony is that the Saracens team was probably closer to a representative South African side than this SA side.
However, that is taking nothing away from strong and comendable preformances from both Leicester and Saracens.
pIZZA November 18, 2009 2:05 pm
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
JUSTICE 11
No.7 November 18, 2009 2:27 pm
ok, i can sit by and read about the club games the boks lost, and think yes well call it what you like but they are still springbok players and they are wearing the same jersey that Matfield, Botha, Brussouw, etc wear so technically springboks did lose although ill accept it wasnt a top notch team.
BUT FUCKING HELL! you cannot turn round and say your side was diluted for the france game:
15-Z Kirchner,
14-JP Pietersen,
13-J Fourie,
12-A Jacobs,
11-B Habana,
10-M Steyn,
9-F du Preez;
8-R Kankowski,
7-S Burger,
6-H Brussow,
5-V Matfield,
4-B Botha,
3-J Smit (capt),
2-B Plessis,
1-T Mtawarira
YEEAAAH LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING WEAK TEAM DOESNT IT!
I mean we can easily say we dont recognise any of the forceful players names in that list......i mean who has heard of 2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,13,14
I left out kankowski cos you all bitch about him.....but i mean that a strong side on any day.
so what you didnt play your best and you lost (this is how the game goes) accept that!!! dont start for one second saying your team was diluted!!!
p.s i apologise in bringing this up to the bok fans that are disappointed in the result and have been more than gracious in defeat!
BUT FUCKING HELL! you cannot turn round and say your side was diluted for the france game:
15-Z Kirchner,
14-JP Pietersen,
13-J Fourie,
12-A Jacobs,
11-B Habana,
10-M Steyn,
9-F du Preez;
8-R Kankowski,
7-S Burger,
6-H Brussow,
5-V Matfield,
4-B Botha,
3-J Smit (capt),
2-B Plessis,
1-T Mtawarira
YEEAAAH LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING WEAK TEAM DOESNT IT!
I mean we can easily say we dont recognise any of the forceful players names in that list......i mean who has heard of 2,3,4,5,6,7,9,10,11,13,14
I left out kankowski cos you all bitch about him.....but i mean that a strong side on any day.
so what you didnt play your best and you lost (this is how the game goes) accept that!!! dont start for one second saying your team was diluted!!!
p.s i apologise in bringing this up to the bok fans that are disappointed in the result and have been more than gracious in defeat!
Ted November 18, 2009 5:13 pm
You anonymous children who are trying to rile the Bok fans are pathetic. The rest of us just have to accept that there is a small minority on this site who are so insecure they have to make themselves feel better by slagging off other nations and bigging themselves up.
Bok fans - as a NH supporter, believe me when I say that we all know you're still No 1 in the world and we'd love to take your place.
NH fans - please don't gloat when SH teams lose the occasional match. It's demeaning.
Bok fans - as a NH supporter, believe me when I say that we all know you're still No 1 in the world and we'd love to take your place.
NH fans - please don't gloat when SH teams lose the occasional match. It's demeaning.
Anonymous November 19, 2009 12:13 pm
I'll come back here after the game and laugh at your prediction.
Anonymous November 19, 2009 12:23 pm
"so what you didnt play your best and you lost (this is how the game goes) accept that!!! dont start for one second saying your team was diluted!!!"
It wasn't their top team, they were missing four of their top players, that means they weren't at their best, which means their team was diluted. Not a difficult concept to grasp. This was compounded by Matfield going off for 10, Botha going off for 20 (due to illegal French tactics), two yellow cards and Burger going down, forcing Danie Russow (a lock) to play flank. Team was diluted. The French didn't even play well.
It wasn't their top team, they were missing four of their top players, that means they weren't at their best, which means their team was diluted. Not a difficult concept to grasp. This was compounded by Matfield going off for 10, Botha going off for 20 (due to illegal French tactics), two yellow cards and Burger going down, forcing Danie Russow (a lock) to play flank. Team was diluted. The French didn't even play well.
Anonymous November 19, 2009 12:25 pm
On top of that, Jacobs and Kankowski were two very weak links. The new fullback didn't add much and Burger's no Juan Smith.
Anonymous November 19, 2009 12:39 pm
Here come the ridiculous excuses! I was waiting
jean November 19, 2009 4:03 pm
No kidding guys!!!
He kicked Clerc on purpose...
Traille has nothing to do with that disgracious kicking
He kicked Clerc on purpose...
Traille has nothing to do with that disgracious kicking
No.7 November 19, 2009 5:09 pm
Ok, im sorry, so when SA next beat someone, (which no doubt they will) then 'pfft im sure it doesnt count' because the other team werent at full strength, so if matfield goes off for (blood was it?) that takes a victory away from france because SA didnt have enough depth to fill his space with an equally good player...im sorry but you just made the argument even more ridiculous!!!
Lets take england with a list of injuries almost as long as the amount of players they have, does that mean that when SA beat them all the Eng fans can turn around and say 'sorry SA i guess you're happy with your win, but it doesn't amount to beating us because JW had to go off for blood, and we are missing our whole team through injury and, and, and, and' NO IF F*CKING DOESNT!
Really your excuses are so damn ridiculous im tripping over what to say next because there is too much to say!.....
ok, took a few deep breathes.
I do understand however your point in terms of not all the players were the ones the world recognises.
but you must be aware, that as world number 1's that someone who steps into a position and puts on an SA jersey is to be regarded as a player in the No.1 team in the world......
i dunno, i lost track, i just hate hearing excuses like, 'faaaakkkee boks, they werent the reeeal ones' or 'it wasnt our full team so it doesnt really matter because when we have our fuuullll team we'll wiiiin'
Lets take england with a list of injuries almost as long as the amount of players they have, does that mean that when SA beat them all the Eng fans can turn around and say 'sorry SA i guess you're happy with your win, but it doesn't amount to beating us because JW had to go off for blood, and we are missing our whole team through injury and, and, and, and' NO IF F*CKING DOESNT!
Really your excuses are so damn ridiculous im tripping over what to say next because there is too much to say!.....
ok, took a few deep breathes.
I do understand however your point in terms of not all the players were the ones the world recognises.
but you must be aware, that as world number 1's that someone who steps into a position and puts on an SA jersey is to be regarded as a player in the No.1 team in the world......
i dunno, i lost track, i just hate hearing excuses like, 'faaaakkkee boks, they werent the reeeal ones' or 'it wasnt our full team so it doesnt really matter because when we have our fuuullll team we'll wiiiin'
Anonymous November 20, 2009 12:42 pm
Is English your first language? We were discussing whether the team was diluted or not, no one was making excuses. We don't need to make excuses, we're the best team in the world.
Bill November 20, 2009 9:23 pm
Hey No 7 I'm pretty damn sure that heaps and heaps of people mentioned the fact England had a huge list of injuries.
In fact I'm pretty damn sure there were several articles about it in every major newspaper.
So people did mention it.
Just because people point out the reality of a situation doesn't mean they are making excuses.
The Boks are missing a couple key players, and their players did get sent off (SH players getting sent off for stupid reasons does seem to be a theme this November).
In fact I'm pretty damn sure there were several articles about it in every major newspaper.
So people did mention it.
Just because people point out the reality of a situation doesn't mean they are making excuses.
The Boks are missing a couple key players, and their players did get sent off (SH players getting sent off for stupid reasons does seem to be a theme this November).
Anonymous December 16, 2009 2:40 pm
It's dis-heartening to see what some area's of rugby have come to, Citing has gone over the top. You can hardly call that a kick, even if Habana did do it intentionally. Come on lads, You're the French XV, The RFU citing commissioners are taking the enjoyment of rugby out of the game. I know in the rules it'll say no kicking, but i think they should be a little more lenient to players. It's an aggressive, Hard, Physical game.
Another incident is from The Ireland/Australia game where Palu was Carded for a Boarderline hit around Rob Kearney's Shoulders, He attempted to rap his arms yet the referee was quick to card him.
The officials are taking the flow and enjoyment out of the game. Players tend not to go for big hits due to the too often consequences of them. Yes players need to be protected from malicious offences, such as punches to the face, Eye gouging etc. The players can handle a LITTLE nudge that didn't cause any injury or harm.
They need to let the players get on with it sometimes.
I know there'll be objections to this comment, but this is just my view and i respect others opinions on the issue also.
~ Spencer
Another incident is from The Ireland/Australia game where Palu was Carded for a Boarderline hit around Rob Kearney's Shoulders, He attempted to rap his arms yet the referee was quick to card him.
The officials are taking the flow and enjoyment out of the game. Players tend not to go for big hits due to the too often consequences of them. Yes players need to be protected from malicious offences, such as punches to the face, Eye gouging etc. The players can handle a LITTLE nudge that didn't cause any injury or harm.
They need to let the players get on with it sometimes.
I know there'll be objections to this comment, but this is just my view and i respect others opinions on the issue also.
~ Spencer
bison January 16, 2010 2:17 pm
bravo spencer. the game is dying because of simulation. may aswell wear high vis jackets & hard hats for health & safety.
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