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Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Wycliff Palu's yellow card hit on Rob Kearney

Wycliff Palu's yellow card hit on Rob Kearney

One of the biggest talking points from the Ireland vs Australia draw at Croke Park was the Wycliff Palu sin-binning for an alleged dangerous tackle on Rob Kearney. We'll have another look at it as it's still a big topic for discussion.

Kearney collected the ball and rather than kick, he chose to run straight into 120kg Palu, who put in a massive hit that rocked the Ireland fullback to the floor.

Referee Jonathan Kaplan was slightly behind where the tackle took place, and obviously saw Kearney bounce off the hit from Palu, leading him to believe it had the impact of a traditional shoulder charge type hit.

"I thought it was a pretty good hit but he obviously saw it the other way," Palu explained later.

"When I started seeing him reach into his pocket, I was trying to say 'sorry let's talk about it' but I think he'd already made up his mind. I think he said no arms, shoulder charge."

Palus arms looked to be wrapping around his man as he made the front on tackle. There was no shoulder charging motion, and the hit seemed to be at the correct height to be considered legal.

Weve included comments from the BBCs Keith Wood, Jeremy Guscott, and Jonathan Davies. Interestingly, its the Irishman Wood who is the only one who views the hit as illegal, while the other two neutrals think its perfectly fine.

Ben Tune, in the Australian studio, also couldnt believe Palu was yellow carded.

The Wallabies were playing pretty well at the time and with Palu off for ten minutes, lost a little momentum. Do you feel that Kaplan got it wrong, or was he correct to yellow card Palu?

Time: 03:22

Posted at 9:32 am | 184 comments

Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play

Viewing 184 comments

Hackney Griffin November 18, 2009 11:42 am

It's borderline... the arm is straight, but the other is wrapping, it's high, but it looks to have ridden up... I don't think there's a lot wrong with the refs call here. Palu could certainly have chosen not to make contact at shoulder height... but there's also not too much with wrong with the hit. A bent elbow, an inch lower...

When players chose to make a "smash" they are walking a tight rope. It's easy to get a big hit wrong, and to see yellow.

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Jon November 18, 2009 11:47 am

Absolutely disgraceful card.
A joke.
I honestly believe it's because he's an Islander.
Its borderline racist that call.
The fucked up irony is that Kearney did a clear shoulder charge on Elsom as he scored, and nothing happened.
Ridiculous. F-ing ridiculous.
This Bullshit has got to stop.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:48 am

From what it seems the arms were wrapping and he hit him chest height and slipped up. If you watch this at real time Kearney dips before the tackle. To be honest it seemed ok to me, but the maximum should have been a penalty, I think the yellow is over the top.

If these sort of tackles start getting targeted by refs you can say goodbye to big hits.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:53 am

Sit down Kearney!
Legal hit, shame hit got carded, it changed the shape of the game.
Big P

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Just a Fan November 18, 2009 11:57 am

Nothing wrong with that tackle - Kearney bounced back out before Palu could close his grip.
Don't think that Kaplan was being "racist" though....in real time and from a different angle it could have looked illegal.

Jon - think you need to change your nappy dude.

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no9 November 18, 2009 11:58 am

he didn't mean to hit him high, he's not that type of player,

but it was still high and a deserved yellow.

there should be no citing

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clem November 18, 2009 11:59 am

maybe a penalty, surely not a yellow!!

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:03 pm

Why only Islanders getting carded?
The Fijian 15, Palu, Tuilagi a couple weeks back?

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Jon November 18, 2009 12:05 pm

Yeah Just a Fan, if it had been from a different angle, at a different time, in a different place and two different players had been involved and it had actually been an ilegal tackle, it sure would have been seen as an ilegal tackle.
Thing is, it wasn't. A terrible call.
Why didn't Kearney get carded for a much more blatant shoulder on Elsom?

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:11 pm

To me its obvious. If you have a mustash like that. You deserve a card...

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:14 pm

The mustaches are for charity man.

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Jim November 18, 2009 12:14 pm

The hit was fine! perfectly legal. this is rugby, we seem to be forgetting that. he probably would have been able to wrap a bigger player, but considering theres at least a 25-30kg difference he just bounced off.

Its a joke... besides palu is 6ft5 AND kearney was ducking into the tackle so it made it seem a bit higher than it was...
shit reffing in my opinion

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:16 pm

borderline penalty, definately no card.

and go ireland!

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Hi Ho November 18, 2009 12:17 pm

It's bad enough that some people (who really have a very strange perspective on things) think that it was a shoulder charge when it wasn't even close to being a shoulder charge, but to say it was high is bloody demented.

I can comprehend how a ref can get it wrong when making a split second decision (even though this shows that refs are paranoid about shoulder charges), but for people to see the replay and still think it deserves a penalty let alone a yellow card is unbelievable.

Hits like that are to be enjoyed, not discouraged from the game.

The people out there that think it is illegal or even close to illegal need to take a long hard look at themselves.

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jamestheconvict November 18, 2009 12:19 pm

shut up hackney griffin - jesus

" i dont think there is a lot wrong with the refs call ' - no you wouldnt would you Hackney

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:24 pm

Not high, he tried to use his arms, but the sheer force of the impact meant Kearney bounced off. No card...

However as a referee, you see a hit like that, from a distance of 10+m, from behind, its a tough call. At full speed it looks illegal, but the replay shows otherwise. We have the luxury of multiple slow motion replays.

Overall however i thought Kaplan didn't have a great game

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SomeThingsDontChange November 18, 2009 12:24 pm

About as much impact and arm-wrap as this tackle from hernandez on tuilagi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wZArJ0IaJo

Of course no penalty, yellow card or sighting in that instance, just praise for the tackle.

At least 5 pacific islanders were binned over the weekend's matches for various international teams. All for incidents which have gone unpunished when conducted by non-islanders. Co-incidence? I think not, it's been gong on for decades.

Where is the game heading?

View Video

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justwondering November 18, 2009 12:27 pm

im british so i have no viewpoint, but are refs a tad harsh on people of islander descent? i swear if palu had been elsom that would have been absolutely fine. i know islanders do traditionally put in the big hits (tuilagis, lima etc) and dareisay slightly high hits but still the number of cards seem disproportianate.

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Kenny November 18, 2009 12:28 pm

Im Irish and that hit was just fine and anyway i nearly cheered it because Kearney was beginning to irritate me with his aimless kicking and then just legging it at Palu, no step just a straight run into a 6FT 5" 120KG Monster.

Perfect tackle the only thing that appeared wrong was Kearney bounced off him before Palu could wrap him and that maybe made the ref think it was a shoulder charge.

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Kenny November 18, 2009 12:29 pm

Wecome back jamestheconvict long time no argue mate!!!!

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Kenny November 18, 2009 12:34 pm

And O' Garas kick after made the team about ten meters for a line out - Typical door mat O' Gara....cant tackle, couldnt pass in the first 3 minutes and then couldnt find a decent touch....f**kn douchebag O' Gara

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:50 pm

im an irishman......and i was fu**ing shocked it was a card..one of the best LEGAL hits ive seen in 2009!what sort of message is that sending out to players when they cant even hit a bloke hard and fair without being punished!

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:55 pm

yellow card, high hit.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 12:59 pm

If that's a yellow card, PDV is right about the tutus.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 1:09 pm

Given that he is leading with his arm (i.e. his arm is in front - in the direction of the player being tackled - of his shoulder when he approaches the tackle), i can't see how it could be ruled a shoulder charge.

The more ridiculous thing, as Jon has pointed out, is that Kearney lead with his shoulder into Elsom, in the red zone, with the explicit intent of preventing a try. Thus Kearney was guilty of both a professional foul and dangerous play, however he walks away with nothing. On this point, as far as i know there is no talk of a citing commission for Kearney.

Its not really helpful for the players.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 1:23 pm

Kraplan strikes again!

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 1:33 pm

"Yep so weak he got up after that hit from Palu"

And so he should.
It's rugby, he got tackled, and tackled well. So he gets up and plays on. That's the game.
This card was a joke.

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Ed November 18, 2009 1:37 pm

Fair hit!!! Jon...boardline racist, come on! But agree about Kearney's shoulder charge on Elsom, but it also wasn't a card. Sometimes De Villiers talks a little sense..it's not tiddlywinks fellas!!

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Bill November 18, 2009 1:43 pm

Why did like five Islanders get carded this weekend?
Why did non-Islander players get away with no penalty or citation for similar tackles?

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jot November 18, 2009 1:48 pm

Cant believe people are playing the race card!! Get rid of that fucking chip on your shoulder.

Nothing wrong with the tackle, great hit. The ref got it wrong.

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Richie November 18, 2009 1:58 pm

It was a great hit. He had is arms up, Kearney just ran into him and bounced off again before he could wrap them.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 2:00 pm

nothing wrong with that whats so ever.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 2:01 pm

Kaplan's time on the international panel should be over. what a disgrace.

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Ted November 18, 2009 2:12 pm

There certainly isn't much difference between this hit and the hits that Lamont put in against Fiji which were praised for being so good.

But then the ref's decision is always subjective. To one ref it's dangerous to another it's a good hit. I don't think that necessarily means it's racist...

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 2:36 pm

ref can only see it in real time. and from his angle it may have seemed abit high (might not have seen kearney ducking slightly) and palu hit him with such force that kearney was down before the arms would have had a chance to properly wrap (can see that palu clearly went to wrap the arms).

big hit, legal hit, unfortunately the ref can only play it as he sees it and in real time and from his angle it may have looked dangerous

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 2:43 pm

If you want to see a no arms shoulder charge see Kearney's tackle on Elsom when he scored in the corner.

To me there is a distinction between a no-arms shoulder charge and this tackle, which like Tuilagi on Foden, is a huge powerful forward v. a back and the power at impact prevents the forward from wrapping up.


Anyway, it's rugby....I am not sure why a shoulder charge is considered "dangerous"....there is nothing inherently dangerous about it....unlike like say a head high tackle.

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No.7 November 18, 2009 2:52 pm

"Why only Islanders getting carded?
The Fijian 15, Palu, Tuilagi a couple weeks back?"

I was gonna say not just islanders though banahan got carded.....but then technically he is an islander....

To be honest i think its unfair, but i feel players have to be more open and expect it to go either way. im afraid that tackle as 'legal' as some of you say it is (i dont know cos the video wont load properly) could have been close to illegal, or those saying its illegal it could have been almost legal....

I think its another one of these borderline smashes.....the ref has an instant to make a decision and i think its something that players have to accept....

I think in the case of Lamont smashing the Fijiian, you might have to accept that had the referee for Scot-fiji match actually been dealing with the aus-ire match he might have not said anything regarding this tackle..... and had this ref been dealing with scot-fiji, lamont might have been off....

Admittedly it is suspect, and perhaps its not racist but more stereotyping, i mean the islanders havent half built up a reputation that precedes them regarding huge hits, and unfortunately for them some of the hits involve a lack of arms....and that is in the rule book so....laws are laws...

I play in the forwards, flanker or second row, so i do tend to put in some alrght hits on the 10 when i flank, some are borderline...i have found refs are different and im glad that we're able to still tackle and rugby hasnt been turned into tag rugby....

my point is im trying to justify why the ref did what he did...because i dont want the big hits gone from the game....

also i read Keith Wood thought it was illegal, i cant wait to see the video (if it loads) because keith is normally so fair in everything....

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 2:58 pm

Right decision for the wrong reason -- dangerous high tackle, but he did use his arms.
There should be no place for the shoulder deliberately hitting the chin in rugby. Kearney dipping slightly is no justification, the contact should never be designed to be that high.
The trade off of big hits is with a sustainable sport -- we can't afford to have players' careers shortened just because some armchair warriors like seeing players getting crushed on the field.

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Les Bleus November 18, 2009 3:10 pm

Does anyone else admire what they do in rugby in 'Movember'? The Australians always get behind it, some Irish players not but as many as last year, just a great sight to see.

Anyway, legal hit in my opinion looked a bit bad at first but when slowed down you can see the arms wrapping around and Kearney just slipping down before the arms could completely wrap around. That is what happens when you have 25-30kg weight on someone.

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Napoleon Dynamite November 18, 2009 3:20 pm

Looks a good tackle to me

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 3:21 pm

What makes me laugh with the line of argument in this thread is that pacific islanders are being picked on. I could of sworn Palu played for Australia ? Oh ya, I forgot about Australia and New Zealand ability to pillage these players from their home nations. Quit whining.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 3:24 pm

My apologies, my mistake, Palu was born in Syndey therefore an aussie, not an islander.

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eric November 18, 2009 3:26 pm

if instead of bouncing, palu had tried to go down with kearney, everything would be ok, but as he simply put his shoulder neck high to hit him and couldn't even hold him with one arm it had to be a card

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Peej November 18, 2009 3:27 pm

Jon's got it spot-on in my book (aside from the racist allegation). No action against Kearney at all.

When will people realise that NO ONE makes a tackle with just their arms, becuase it doesn't work, and attackers can just burst through. You always lead with your shoulder and wrap after the contact, but in this caase Kearney, quite understandably being that he's about 4 stone or more lighter, was already on the deck before the arms could wrap.

The penalty was based entirely on the fact that kearney hit the deck so fast - but Kaplna didn't pause to think what would happen if you ran full tilt into a bloke three inches taller and a few stone heavier than you

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No.7 November 18, 2009 3:30 pm

Hmmmmm, i managed to watch the video in the end.....

i dunno....i can see everyones point on this video..

maybe the little bit at the end sums it up, with the guy saying 'kaplan was being pedantic'

i think this goes well with what the guy a couple posts above said about player longevity....

yes THIS tackle wasnt that bad but its the ones that are similar but that bit worse, so maybe its a stamping it out sort of era at the moment....so maybe its just unlucky for palu to be caught in the middle......

i think Keith wood had a point with it being unnecessarily high, and also with the intent comment....a lot of people here comment on how players bounce off others....yes to a point, but kearney isnt exactly small.....and when people say 'he tried to wrap' i think keith sums up well.....

meh, the jury is out on this one for me!

all i know is that if there had been a fight in the room between, keith, guscott, and davies,.....woody would have definately come out on top (:






(woody would..._ WTF....how much wood, would a woodchuck.....etc)

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 3:45 pm

I think is not a shoulder charge but it may be still a pretty high tackle. Just penalty but not card should be ok

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 4:06 pm

I dont know how anyone puts up with the second bite of the cherry commentary team, that is Ryle Nugent and Tony Ward. Ward is just about tolerable. As an ex international, it can be argued he contributes something.
The aussie team we get on sky in Ireland are top notch. Appropriated level of excitement, in-depth analysis and opinions that aren't so one sided one feels the need to dispose of their ears.

As for the card. I wouldn't have given it. Penalty but nothing more. I feel technically it was ok but a little high if anything

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 4:17 pm

Not a yellow card nor a penalty a poor decision by the referee who reacted to a player bouncing off the tackler. It was less of a foul than the shoulder charge by Kearney when he scored the try. that was a blatant charge by the player in posession. Palu tried to wrap his arms but put so much into the tackle he failed to grab Kearney before he fell.

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fed up November 18, 2009 4:18 pm

to the annonymous a couple posts up.. you obviously don't know the difference between nationality and ethnicity!!

palu is of tongan descent.. meaning his parents are tongan ethnically.. if he was born in australia it makes his nationality australian.. he will always be a tongan ethnically, therefore making him an islander..

seriously go read a book!! a samoan will always be a samoan no matter what country he plays for.. a tongan will always be a tongan no matter what country he plays for.. get it?

you know these refs are definitely prejudice.. which could lead to racism.. they come in ready to card an islander based on past players reputation.. should all people kill us(white people) when they see us?? i mean we have raped and pillaged and enslaved all kinds of different cultures.. even the islanders.. but they don't do they? maybe we have the chips on our shoulders

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 4:21 pm

if this is the way the officials going than pretty soon rugby is going to be a boring game.This clearly shows that you cant prepare yourself to a point you cant make a hit so hard coz of this crazy ladies the officials.They should change sports and go ref no contact sports...netball !

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Canadian Content November 18, 2009 4:29 pm

At full speed the ref was able to see two aspects of the tackle

1) No wrapping up of the ball carrier

2) A point of impact near the tacklee's head area

The ref as required to make a split second decision without the aide of video replay and he did so with confidence.

Notice that Jonathan Davies, an ex-league player, was fine with the hit? This was definitely a league type hit.

With the players getting bigger and faster, the tackles seem to be creeping higher and higher and more and more no arm "hits".

The NFL recently banned helmet to helmet contact in an effort to cut down on head injuries. This after years of spectacular, massive collisions that everyone enjoyed except for those involved.

Rugby needs to heed this type of forward thinking. There was a posting on this site recently discussing the increase of injuries in our great game. We need to encourage big tackles more so than big hits.

Kearney is a great player, do we want to discourage his running rugby or see him out of the game for the sake of the "big hit".

If the Ozzie player had made the hit about 3 inches lower we probably wouldn't even be talking about this. It would have been a great tackle.

In saying all of this, the Islanders do seem to be targetted by the refs and yes Kearny made no attempt to wrap on his tackle on Elsom.

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Chris G November 18, 2009 4:43 pm

The hypocricy of rugby fans! We complain about too many injuries in the modern game (the average pro player spends 25% of his career injured) and yet you also complain when hits like this are discouraged! You can't have it both ways! Make up your minds! I personally would rather see my first choice players take the field (because they're not injured) than see hits like this. Whether or not it conflicted with the letter of the law it's a bloody dangerous tackle. And you CAN put in big hits - just do them a bit lower, rather than right at the tip of shoulder height. If you macho alpha males get your way the professional injury rate is going to get so high we have to bring in pads and helmets; and that's not what I want to watch! There's so much more to rugby than big hits. And as I said, you CAN put in big hits that aren't at shoulder height, just think of Josh Lewesy as one of many examples.

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Chris G November 18, 2009 4:57 pm

Also, to 'Fed up' who said "you obviously don't know the difference between nationality and ethnicity!!" - you then go on to use 'tongan' as though it were a racial term. Firstly, as far as I can tell, no academic or political authority considers 'tongan' a racial term, it's just a nationality. A white man born in Tonga, to white parents born in Tonga, is a Tongan. Secondly 'Polynesian' is a geographic term not a racial term. Thirdly, the concept of 'race' is considered a dubious term by scientists as there is no objective way to delineate supposedly different and distinct races, so the criteria for what makes a race are subjective anyway. There is no final authority on the matter. So if you're gonna get all angry and abuse some one and say "seriously go read a book!!" then perhaps you should do so yourself.

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Kearney for tests November 18, 2009 5:03 pm

As the resident expert on Kearney here, when I first saw this tackle I immediately thought, 'Oh God Kearney what are you at?'. Then I moved onto 'Hang on that must have been a shoulder charge, otherwise he wouldn't have ended up like that'. But on seeing the replay I realised that there was nothing wrong here, and that Kearney was just a stupid idiot to run upright, straight into this massive guy. Although in real-time I can see why the ref got it wrong.

And to the guy who was complaining about Ryle and Tony the commentators, come on. They're brilliant. Ryle makes things much more exciting when they happen, and Tony gives us the inside track on the finer points of the game. They're a mile better than Miles and Barnsey, or those really biased(although still good) Australian commentators.

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Kearney for tests November 18, 2009 5:04 pm

Well said Chris G, you took the words right out of my mouth.

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Alexander November 18, 2009 5:24 pm

Nah pretty solid hit. Again ref's getting it wrong. Think we need to accept that these hits will become more commonplace as players get bigger no?!

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 5:34 pm

if you think there was anything wrong with that hit then you should piss off and go play touch!!!!!!!!!

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jot November 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Talking about big hits, legal or not legal. I recall a match between South Africa and Samoa where the SA scrumhalf at the time Joost Van Der Westhuizen was targeted. They almost decapitate the guy with shoulder charges and illegal hits.

Would be interesting to see highlights of that game RD, seeing that we are on the topic.

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fed up November 18, 2009 5:43 pm

chris g

a white guy born in tonga with white parents makes him a tongan NATIONAL, yes.. but he wil never be an ETHNIC tongan.. his ancestors were from europe.. palu's ancestor are from tonga..

i don't expect you to understand this though.. you probably were never raised around islanders.. therefore don't understand the special indentity that islanders hold about themsleves.. something scientist or scientific classifications can't explain or understand

to back up my argument just look at the calls the refs are making.. islanders, no matter what country they play for, get penalised for the same infractions that non-islanders get praised for

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fed up November 18, 2009 5:51 pm

also polynesian is also used as a cultural classification not just georgraphic.. because there are micronesians that live within the polynesian triangle.. look up kiribati islands.. the kiribati islands are ethnically and culturally part of the "micronesian" group but parts of it lie in the polynesian georgraphic region..

look up fiji.. these are ethnically melanesian but culturally polyesian..

look up rotuma islands.. they are a group of islands that are polynesian ethnically and culturaly but are under fijian government making them fijian nationals.

you wouldn't understand

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Joshua November 18, 2009 5:54 pm

Fed up, you must be an idiot. Only a fucking idiot can make this a race issue! Or maybe Kaplan is racist because he is from South Africa and that is why he pulled out a yellow card. Am I allowed to say yellow card as you might somehow think I am being racist. Idiot!!

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John November 18, 2009 5:59 pm

Wow. I'm amazed at how many people want rugby to be a 15 on 15 pro wrestling match. Seriously people, he flat out clothes-lined him. You have honestly got to be kidding yourself if you think that was anywhere near legal. Stiff arm, a bit high, didn't go to ground with him (and made no attempt to). I think a lot of you need to take a look at the laws again if you think that hit was legal.

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fed up November 18, 2009 6:09 pm

joshua

you're the idiot.. i was explaining the difference between nationality and ethnicity.. i didn't call kaplan a racist.. i said it could lead to racism.. when you have a pre-determine idea of how a group of people should act or behave it will have a negative impact on your thoughts.. therefore causing you to classify all of them..

yellow used as a racial slur was started ny racist people.. i don't take offence because i'm not an idiot like you

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Irish Fan November 18, 2009 6:18 pm

An Awful lot of Bullshit being written here.....Sometimes i wonder if some of you have even stepped onto a rugby pitch.I am Irish and i am embarassed by some of the comments people are making.This hit was one of the best this year.Unfortunatley the ref saw a bad angle (from behind) and carded Palu.It would be interesting to hear the refs opinion after the game when he watched the replay!!??Simple miss match tackle....Palu has at least 30kg on kearney...how can u expect him to hold on and go down with kearney when he ran straight into him.I dont think it would be physically possible!!And all you guys moaning about how he should be cited etc etc.....can you imagine how Ireland will be thought of down in Oz....They are laughing and probably calling us a bunch of "Pussies".Kearneys charge on Elsom was more worthy of a card in my opinion.

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Jack November 18, 2009 6:27 pm

Whats funny is that kearney himself did a shoulder barge on rocky when aussies scored

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No.7 November 18, 2009 6:47 pm

Ah, right, the tackle is fine because he had 30kg on kearney, ill remember that the next time i nearly take someones head off on the rugby pitch....

'oh come on ref, i have an extra 30odd kg's on the scrawny winger he bounced off me before i got time to wrap him up!'

Im not saying palu's tackle is illegal but THAT is such a stupid argument!

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Der Tierarzt November 18, 2009 7:17 pm

Having actually been in Croke Park for the match, I found it deplorable that people were booing Palu off the pitch. It was a disgrace he got a yellow card, Kearney ducked into Palu, and Kearney was felled before Palu had a chance to complete wrapping his arms in the tackle. Perfectly legal.

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Third Centre November 18, 2009 7:34 pm

Good tackle. feel sorry for ref as it was very hard to call it in real time but Kearney had stooped his head but Palu did attempt to wrap his hands.

terrible stuff that he got a card.

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thats what she November 18, 2009 7:56 pm

i completely agree that that tackle was legal(and im irish),but some people are going ridiculously over the top about it.here is a typical comment:"it changed the whole game".err,sorry to embarass you,but ireland didnt score during the ten minute period.

also,people giving out about kearney.he didnt give the card.he got hit,went to ground,and tried to present the ball.the call had nothing to do with him.

please people,learn to discuss rugby properly

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thats what she November 18, 2009 7:58 pm

and i mean the people giving about kearney taking the hit,not those giving out about his shoulder charge.i agree that it was illegal,but i think the ref would have punished himm had elsom not scored

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FrankyH November 18, 2009 8:01 pm

@ No.7 - "I was gonna say not just islanders though banahan got carded.....but then technically he is an islander...." lol nice ;)

Secondly.. it took you over 30 minutes to load the video?? :-s

Thirdly.. yes, islanders perhaps get targeted, but that's because they have a reputation for chest high hits, which are often on the wrong side of the law.

Besides the racial b.s discussions going on here, I'm surprised everyone is being so PC as to avoid saying that. It's true isn't it? They're even proud of it, so it's their own doing, no? Even George Stowers said in an interview recently 'we hope to put some big hits in'. I doubt he was meaning waist high tackles.

And the guy referring to Joost getting targeted, I think you're thinking of the quarter final in 1995 between SA and Samoa when Mike Umaga (Tanas brother) smashed a few of the SA players, including Joost and Andre Joubert. The later broke his hand and almost missed the final because of it.

Anyway, long story, but the main point is that yes, islanders do have a reputation for dirty, massive hits, so thats why they're picked on. I'm not saying I dont like big hits or dont like islanders. Just telling it as I see it. I dont think they'd take offence either..

This though, was a great hit, and I dont think it's because his skin is darker than anyone else. If Elsom or any other Aussie player made the hit, they'd probably also be carded, perhaps.

My two cents - use it, dont use it. :)

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 8:04 pm

palu cud have gone lower the hit was huge borderline but stil if i was in kaplans shoes i would have called it

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FrankyH November 18, 2009 8:05 pm

um, if that didnt make sense - what I mean is that they have a history of big, hard, 'dirty' hits, hence the reputation.

Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.. we can't pretend that they don't make crunching hits, many of which aren't quite illegal.

The legal ones are spectacular though. :P

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Haskell's Unpunished November 18, 2009 8:13 pm

For those who want proof of the one-eyed bias:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-68kyQ5TA

Notice where the ref is - in the absolutely perfect position to see the late, high and dangerous "swinging shoulder" (as Keith Wood so kindly coined) tackle from Haskell on Crane.

What happens? No call, nada, nothing, zilch...anything from the touch judges? Nope.

What's the first impression from Stuart Barnes commentating?

Aside from coming in his pants over his English beefcake's hit:

"Oh what a hit from Haskell!"

"He's smashed him!"

Then on closer inspection with the replay:

"On another day he'd be in the bin for that"

But wait, Barnes thinks, better not slate him too much, he is an Englnd international:

"You can't fault the commitment, the fire but..."

Disgusting.

Compared to Barnes' close colleague Dewi Morris on Tuilagi vs Foden, who absolutely dishes it out about how bad Tuilagi's tackle is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Zq5hSzH34

How despicably one-sided these oikish commentators are!

View Videos

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PP November 18, 2009 8:23 pm

"A tackle occurs when the ball carrier is HELD by a player and brought to ground". At no point during the action, Kearney is held, therefore it's not a tackle. It is the responsibility of the tackler to complete the tackle.
Obviously if the tackler chooses to target the shoulders as high as possible then he is more likely to fail to complete the tackle and be penalised.

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fed up November 18, 2009 8:30 pm

frankyh

thank you for proving my point.. i was waiting for somebody to say it and you did.

can someone show me where in the laws and regulations it says that a ref can make a call based on reputation?? what section is that in?

you CAN NOT, i repeat CAN NOT make calls based on the reputation of SOME islanders!!

yes some make suspect tackles. but nowhere does it say to "give a penalty because most of you islanders make suspects hits anyways!"

all i am asking for is consistency and parity for the islanders..

this is the criteria for an illegal tackle nowadays.
1. too high
2. too late
3. no arms used
4. is he an islander?

if the first three criterion weren't met but he isn't an islander don't award the penalty.. if all four were met, then please give penalty and a yellow card..

lol a bit dramatic but you guys got the point!!

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 8:30 pm

Must Agree -- absolute BS call. The arms went to wrap, it wasn't high.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 9:03 pm

Never a card awsome hit

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 9:14 pm

Stuff like this hurts Rugby. The fact that rugby fans and even commentators and players can't decide (or don't know) if a tackle is legal or not really is an embarrassment to the game.

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Janite November 18, 2009 10:02 pm

a decent hit! kearney was stupid to run straight into palu, penalty is ok i reckon

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Irish Fan November 18, 2009 10:03 pm

"No 7" you seem to read posts and turn them round to suit your arguement.No1 was saying "it was alright as he had 30kgs on him".....the point that was made was to do with earlier posts of why he didnt wrap his arms round kearney and go down with him.Kearney ran straight into a 120kg Australian....what do you expect??!Palu was not at fault.....it wasnt high and there was clearly an attempt to use his arms.Simple as.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:33 pm

Allow shoulder charging in Rugby.

I can guarantee you if shoulder charging were allowed players would still wrap in the tackle becuase it is the most efficient way. But by allowing charging it will cut out crap like this and every other debate about if a tackle is legal or not.

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Anonymous November 18, 2009 11:34 pm

"Oh ya, I forgot about Australia and New Zealand ability to pillage these players from their home nations. Quit whining."

That shows your ignorance.
Islanders are a type of people.
They live all over the Pacific.
Honestly, assuming they are from the Islands, because they are of Islander extraction?
That's like assuming someone is from Africa because they are black.

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Tommo November 18, 2009 11:49 pm

This is a terrible call from the ref.
One of the worst parts of the game at the moment is this insanity around tackling.
Cards for nothing (except being an Islander apparently).
I love how some people try to justify treating Islanders differently.
That's the definition of racism.

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Ashwin November 19, 2009 12:11 am

I agree with the referee's call. Wycliff needs to make a better attempt to wrap and it seems like his shoulder hits Kearney in the chin area.

If you think you can't make a big hit legally, that is just stupid. This may not be the most gruesome tackle, and it may not be intentional, but tackle the god damn legs for christ sake

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Dan November 19, 2009 12:18 am

When will Australians learn that Rugby League is a DIFFERENT game to Union? I have to listen to whinge after whinge, week in an week out! If he used his arms like he should have according to UNION rules, it would have wrapped around Kearny and Palu would have gone down to the floor with him. No ifs or buts!The ignorance makes me sick

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Jon November 19, 2009 12:32 am

Ashwin if that's a card, so is Kearney's tackle, Lamont's tackle, shit probably a dozen tackles a game should be carded.
You'd think you lot had never played the game.
You know that EVERY SINGLE tackle invovles smashing your shoulder, usually into the other person's chest?
It's not f-ing tiddlywinks.

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Scott November 19, 2009 12:49 am

This was an absolute bloody joke. If you can't see what happened, don't guess on it ref. It's showing everything thats going bloody wrong with rugby. Its a brutal game so stop trying to clean it up to not be. Big hits like this are an exciting part of the game and if you're a little fella who decides to run into a bloody big islander, well, occasionally you will end up getting belted.
Rugby is dying a rather rapid death, especially here in Australia and calls like this just piss supporter's of even more.

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Dan November 19, 2009 12:54 am

Anonymous..settle down cowboy!
I believe we are discussing Palu's tackle, not Kearny's. The refereeing was inconsistent, there's no doubt about that. and yes, I've played Union since I was 5. Still do. Unlike you lot in Australia who start off with league and give Union a shot when your dad can afford to send you to a private school. No wonder you can't understand the rules. "Arms around player". Now repeat that to yourself in the mirror 500 times. Hopefully you'll get it then.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 1:01 am

Yeah cuz Palu's arms don't go around?
Because you couldn't find 50 tackles in this game where the arsm don't go around as much, or at all?
For someone who plays you know sweet fa about tackling.
The ONLY reason this was called is because he smashed Kearney.
If he'd preformed the exact same action, but Kearney had been able to still stay upright and drive forward in the tackle, you wouldn't have heard a godamn peep out of the ref.
You have no clue mate.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 1:18 am

It's not Palu's fault Kearney drops like a brick. Weak.

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Dan November 19, 2009 1:20 am

Anonymous

its like trying to explain something to a 3yr old. I already said the only matter we're discussing is Palu's tackle! I'm not denying the ref was inconsistent.
"No Arms = illegal!"
Now have a read of the rules you thick sculled idiot:

"A tackle occurs when the ball carrier is held by one or more opponents and is
brought to ground.
Opposition players who hold the ball carrier and bring that player to ground, and
who also go to ground, are known as tacklers.
Opposition players who hold the ball carrier and do not go to ground are not
tacklers."
"Dangerous charging. A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the
ball without trying to grasp that player."

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Bob Skinstad November 19, 2009 1:26 am

Jeepers ! I don't know guys that looked awful close to a shoulder barge. The arms were swinging, but didn't wrap around the player. Touch call !

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Matt_Drinks_New November 19, 2009 1:57 am

All due respect to your argument Dan,
but the laws that you keep quoting are more relevant to the regulations surrounding the tackle as a precursor to the breakdown, not the halting of momentum of a player.

The 'bringing to ground' of an opponent begins a ruck, obviously once the tackled player is on the ground he must release the ball, and the tackling players on the ground may not play at it unless on their feet. etc etc. There are separate guidelines for judging the legitimacy of how the player is 'tackled' - ie height of contact, use of arms, etc..
Your last point sums up why this should not be a card quite succinctly however:
"Dangerous charging. A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the
ball without trying to grasp that player."

And seeing as Palu did clearly make an attempt to grasp the ball carrier, given that his arms are preceeding his torso, we can be correct in assuming that the card was unfounded, unless the referee deemed it to be high, or had an impeeded view.

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boomshanka November 19, 2009 2:25 am

Slo mo + hindsite makes things a lot easier to call

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Jimmy November 19, 2009 2:25 am

All this bs, it's a good fucking tackle.
It should be applauded.
Terrible call, this garabage is ruining the game.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 2:26 am

Boomshanka, in real time I thought it was ridiculous, and in slow-mo more so.
Pathetic reffing.

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Bill November 19, 2009 2:29 am

I think I'll take Ben Tune's opinion over Dan the pedant.

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Lennox November 19, 2009 2:47 am

You know a thought occurs to me.
Do you think it has to do with British people and other peoples from outside the Pacific not being used to Islanders?
E.G in the commentary of this game the commentators took the time to point out that Palu was of Tongan extraction, as though that were important and whats they were doing was the most natural thing in the world.
But would he have done that to say Ugo Monye? Pointed out his family was from Africa originally?
Why are Islanders treated like some kind of novelty act?
For the record, Palu is from Sydney, and he's a dinki-di Aussie.

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Gregor November 19, 2009 2:57 am

GET RID OF THE WRAP RULE... ITS RIDICULOUS!!!

Shoulder charges dont hurt as much as normal tackles anyway, rugby's turning into soccer the way players are milking it. Disgraceful!!!

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 3:11 am

"Unlike you lot in Australia who start off with league and give Union a shot when your dad can afford to send you to a private school."

Lmao. What an arrogant statement.

"I forgot about Australia and New Zealand ability to pillage these players from their home nations."

Another muppet with no clue. Palu was born in Sydney. Alot of islanders and kiwis are immigrating to Oz for work and lifestyle so expect to see more aussie born 'islanders'.

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McBull November 19, 2009 5:03 am

Proof?

Oh and Islanders aren't tough when compared to South Africans. During the most recent world cup, the IRB forced SA to play 3 island nations, hoping SA players would get injured. Didn't happen, all islanders were physically dominated.

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James November 19, 2009 5:07 am

"GET RID OF THE WRAP RULE... ITS RIDICULOUS!!!"

If you don't like it, go watch league. It'll eventually turn into gridiron and you'll be happy.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 5:07 am

yeah south africa is a better team than any of the island teams.. but henry tuilagi owned the entire back row of south africa and made burger look like a rag doll.. easily tossing him aside..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvDWFeR4Ic

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 5:11 am

McBull are you serious?
So in one statement your making a sweeping generalisation (all Islanders are less tough than all South Africans - wtf??) and also suggesting a massive IRB sponsered conspiracy theory that they put you up against Island teams so you'd get hurt.
Amazing that somehow they knew Fiji would beat Wales then eh?
And they commited the same conspiracy against England eh, same group right?
You are unbelievable dude.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 5:13 am

James, he has a very good point.
All takcles by definition are basically shoulder charges, the only difference is that in one you hit with the shoulder then throw your arms round the guy, or you just hit with the shoulder.
They both cause the same damage.
It's almost as though when people see a massive hit, they assume it's a shoulder charge. Unless of course he's not an Islander player.

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Reds November 19, 2009 5:13 am

its bad enough NH teams and now some of the SH teams wuss out and go to the boot when they should have a go and run, now players have to question themselves before going in for a big hit, which we all love and is a legitimate tactics to force a turn over (as this hit by Wycliff did). Get the softness out of the game, its not needed and only harms its reputation.

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Andy T November 19, 2009 5:56 am

McBull said... Oh and Islanders aren't tough when compared to South Africans. During the most recent world cup, the IRB forced SA to play 3 island nations, hoping SA players would get injured. Didn't happen, all islanders were physically dominated.

What a pathetic load of drivel, how embarrassing for other SA supporters. "It's not fair, us Sth Africans get picked on by everybody but we're actually really really tough" what a laugh. McBull, you're full of it. To make this kind of fantasyland statement and expect to be taken seriously says it all.

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RememberTheMer November 19, 2009 6:30 am

Palu's error was not complete the wrap an 'take' kearney to ground. I.e land on him with his 120 kg bulk.

Wrapping make no differenc what so-ever to the force of a tackle. The intent of the wrapping rule is to stop players bracing their arms against their side, leaning in and leading with upper arm/point of the shoulder. Just like Kearney did on Elsom.

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Jon November 19, 2009 6:46 am

Exactly, the only true shoulder charge in this game was Kearney on Elsom.
But the thing is, I'm an Aussie and I have no problem with what Kearney did. It doesn't matter one way or the other where he has his bloody arms, he's still running in and smashing the point of his shoulder into the guy. You know, a tackle.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 6:48 am

Kaplan is knowen all over the world for deing a bad reff, he has time and time again got decisions wrong, this is just the tip of the iceberg of his failings as a ref.

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Tommo November 19, 2009 6:53 am

So let me get this straight.
To be legal, Palu would have had to somehow, in a feet of incredible agility, as Kearney flew backwards through the air due to the force of being hit by one the strongest guys in rugby, somehow flew forward through the air at the same speed, grabbing Kearney as he did so.
As he grabbed the flying Kearney, flying through the air himself (keeping in mind he's 6'5" and 120kg), he somehow had to maintain his grip and then, in order to keep it legal, he would have to land, shoulder first on Kearney's chest as Kearney slammed onto his back, while keeping his arms firmly grasped around him (probably breaking his own wrists as the combined weight of Kearney and Palu land on them). You know, in order to make sure Kearney was "wrapped up".
Wow.

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Matt_Drinks_New November 19, 2009 7:59 am

^^^ (above) pay that...

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 8:12 am

I think it was a yellow, made no attempt to wrap his arms, just new and sinister version of a shoulder charge

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 8:14 am

You're right it's a new sinister version of a shoulder charge... and it's called a tackle!!!
That sneaky bastard Palu!

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Matt_Drinks_New November 19, 2009 8:17 am

SINISTER - oooh
call the big #8 police - this one's on the loose!

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Tommo November 19, 2009 8:19 am

Yeah I hear all the players are doing these tackle things (which we know are just a sinister new version of a shoulder charge)...

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McBull November 19, 2009 11:06 am

"yeah south africa is a better team than any of the island teams.. but henry tuilagi owned the entire back row of south africa and made burger look like a rag doll.. easily tossing him aside.."

Watched the footage and wasn't impressed, sorry. 1st hit: Danie, a journey man, gets bumped off, Burger makes the tackle. 2nd: Burger falls off because he goes too high, he often does this.. I've seen backs get passed him like that. 3rd: weak tackle attempt. You're making this sound like England vs NZ '95, which is ridiculous.

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McBull November 19, 2009 11:19 am

"McBull are you serious?
So in one statement your making a sweeping generalisation (all Islanders are less tough than all South Africans - wtf??)"

South Africans have never backed down when they face the islanders (including NZ), but continue to think "wtf". South Africa have always produced harder men than the Pacific.

"and also suggesting a massive IRB sponsered conspiracy theory that they put you up against Island teams so you'd get hurt."

This is obvious. We not only had the world champs in our pool, but also two headhunting nations as well as a somewhat physical US team. IRB did NOT want SA to win the tournament. Do you remember how Burger was originally banned for 6 weeks? His offence was less serious than "Gits"'s hit on FdP ("Gits didn't get cited). New Zealand (the precious) had a laughably easy pool... just a warm up exercise... a walk in the park. Don't want to injure the darlings or expose any weakness. HAHAHA, did that ever backfire!

"Amazing that somehow they knew Fiji would beat Wales then eh?"

I didn't think it was that much of an upset, to be honest, but then I've never really rated Wales. Lets say it was just coincidence... go back and watch how that Quarter final was reffed. Islanders were trying to take off the SA players' heads whenever they were defending. IRB officials obviously told the ref to "go easy on the island boys". It was disgusting. They were also continuously infringing at the ruck and threw the ball forward on numerous occasions. They still lost and I don't recall any Springbok getting injured. Too tough.

"And they commited the same conspiracy against England eh, same group right?
You are unbelievable dude."

They knew England wouldn't win the thing. England, during that time period, was the best "B" team. The ultimate goal was to get the cup on the precious New Zealanders. They failed.

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McBull November 19, 2009 11:20 am

"What a pathetic load of drivel, how embarrassing for other SA supporters. "It's not fair, us Sth Africans get picked on by everybody but we're actually really really tough" what a laugh. McBull, you're full of it. To make this kind of fantasyland statement and expect to be taken seriously says it all."

So many words yet you don't even say anything of substance. Well done.

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Chris G November 19, 2009 11:26 am

'Fed Up', once again you should take your own advice and read a book. Ethnicity has very little to do with ancestry and is considered mostly a cultural phenomenon. Whilst we're on the subject of ancestry, most people from the Pacific Islands are descended from Asians from the Taiwan area - I suppose they will always be ethnically Taiwanese will they? Anyway, it is simply not true that anyone descended from people from the Islands will always be 'ethnically tongan' - only if they choose to be, as most of what defines ethnicitiy is cultural. Which you would know if you'd read up on the subject rather than attacking anyone who doesn't use words in the same way as you. Learn to check your opinions before ramming them down other people's throats.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 11:53 am

Fijians = Asians?!?!?!? lol, no. Fijians were originally from Africa.

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Andy T November 19, 2009 12:04 pm

McBull, keep digging that hole for yourself, your childish paranoid ramblings are a joke. For you to demand "substance" from others is a bigger joke. And you want so much to feel like a tough guy, so sad.

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McBull November 19, 2009 12:08 pm

Why do I want to feel like a tough guy, Andy? Instead of throwing insults my way, how about you try to refute my points?

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Andy T November 19, 2009 12:26 pm

McBull, quit stealing my lines. And anyway there's no point in trying to refute childish paranoia, it's a condition, not an opinion. I'm trying to do you a favour by pointing out your problem, so it's up to you.

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Matt_Drinks_New November 19, 2009 12:44 pm

McBull, you're a right McTool,
all this yarpie propaganda rubbish - eye cornt bell eef the eye orr bee orr so against seth effrica! come back when you want to talk about Palu or Kearney - not your conspiracy theory nonsense

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McBull November 19, 2009 12:44 pm

Andy, do you ever say anything of note? It's quite clear the IRB is against South African rugby. An email was even leaked not too long ago!

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McBull November 19, 2009 12:46 pm

I'm not a "yarpie", convict.

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alex November 19, 2009 12:55 pm

reminds me of powells binning during the lions tour. the problem is that it happens so quick the ref has to make a call in that instance and doesnt have the advantage of video technology. from our angle its a good tackle but from the refs its a different story. palu was unfortunate however i can see the refs point of view on it

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Andy T November 19, 2009 12:57 pm

Ooo a "leaked email", this column gets more sinister by the minute.
OK McBull, to be fair I went back over your posts to get the gist of them again. But to be honest it is just one long rant about some great international rugby conspiracy against Sth Africa, headed by the IRB and apparently aided and abetted by all the referees and whoever else they can rope in. The general idea of this crusade against the pure and virtuous (and let's not forget hard) sons of the veldt is to engage the "headhunting" Pacific Island nations and some uppity yanks to do the Boks maximum damage while allowing a free pass in all matters to the likes of NZ and Oz because ... um, I'm not really sure what the reasons are, you don't make that clear. But hell, it's probably just because the whole world hates SA or something, right?
McBull, I can't go on, it's just too silly and there ain't nothing in all this nonsense that's worth refuting. I have too much respect for SA rugby and my SA friends to give any more space to your delusional views.

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McBull November 19, 2009 1:19 pm

My views are shared by many disgruntled South Africans.

"while allowing a free pass in all matters to the likes of NZ and Oz because ... um, I'm not really sure what the reasons are, you don't make that clear. But hell, it's probably just because the whole world hates SA or something, right?"

I don't recall mentioning Australia. The IRB will bend over backwards for NZ because a. the country has this bullshit mystique about it and b. they're usually South Africa's biggest threat. In their eyes, this "exotic paradise" is far more marketable than those "racist yarpie dutch boers". Why do you think the All Blacks have been labeled "precious" for so many years? Why do you think the wc qualifying process was completely overhauled? Answer: because the precious finished 8th (behind the likes of Fiji, Australia and Scotland!).

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MCB November 19, 2009 1:41 pm

Great hit. Nothing wrong with it. Attempted to wrap arms. Vary harsh call by ref

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Andy T November 19, 2009 1:43 pm

McBull said... My views are shared by many disgruntled South Africans.

That's a pity because you're wrong.
That's it for now, enjoy your rugby.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 1:47 pm

so ive read all the posts and it looks like its settled, 95% agree it was a legal bellringer. enough said.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 1:49 pm

so i have read all the comments and its settled. 95% agree it was a legal bellringer. enough said.

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McBull November 19, 2009 2:35 pm

"That's a pity because you're wrong.
That's it for now, enjoy your rugby."

If you browse the fan posts on the great Keo website, you'll see I'm right.

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FrankyH November 19, 2009 3:17 pm

McBull.. the keo website is 90% South Africans though? It doesn't make them right just because a lot are moaning about something lol

Would the Irish be right about this being the correct call just because an irish website has a lot of comments saying so?

Or did I miss your point? Enlighten me bro. :)

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fed up November 19, 2009 3:56 pm

chris g

polynesians were from the taiwan AREA.. they weren't descendants of "asians." the racial scene back some 7,000 yrs ago does not resemble what we think of asia today.. so if you meant polynesians are descendants of asians(ie modern day chinese, taiwanese), then you are wrong.
yes, i used ethnic loosely when i should've said race..
a white man born in tonga will never be a polynesian.. polynesian inlcude tongan, samoan, maori, etc... which have there own disticnt physical characteristics, language, and culture..

what about your use of the word polynesian? you said it's just a geographic region.. WRONG!!

for me to have to explain this shows your lack of real world experience with islanders and their cultures.. not only do i read about them, but i live and breath with them.. i am an english/scottish descent born and raised in samoa now living in the US.. my grandparents are white.. i am of the white race but a samoan national(don't tell the US government) i will never be yellow carded because i don't have the physical features of an islander.. yet i can talk and walk with them


"I suppose they will always be ethnically Taiwanese will they?"

Really? Are you serious? With your logic we are all Africans then, because if you go back far enough we all came from Africa!!
Do we all look the same? Do we all talk the same? Do we all have the same culture? The answer is no!! As humans spread around the world they started to develop unique physical features, cultures, languages, etc.. Which would make polynesians(samoans, tongans..) a different race from modern-day asians, africans, europeans..

So back to the anonymous who said wycliff palu is not an islander, he's an aussie.. READ A BOOK!!

as for you, learn to check yourself. there is a lot you don't understand. did read about kiribati? rotuma?

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McBull November 19, 2009 4:01 pm

Moaning? Oh no, I'm talking about the cold, hard facts. Specific examples, Documentation, you name it.

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No.7 November 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Irish fan, i did nothing of the sort, i am simply saying to excuse a player from a tackle because he is 30kg bigger than another player is ridiculous.

Im a tall guy, 6ft5in if you take into consideration the average club rugby player, im am probably a lot bigger than average (there is a point to this!) if you take say a fresh faced newbie just moved up to senior rugby, who is still growing and has reached a height of 5ft 9 or something, then am i allowed to use an argument that im too tall to tackle someone like him around the waist so if my arm or shoulder makes contact with his chin it isnt my fault? answer NO! I have to make a bigger effort...

Therefore, you cannot use the argument that Palu couldnt wrap him up because he is heavier!!!

Im sorry, but if palu is heavier than kearney he should have to make a bigger effort not to f*ck him up!

And like i said before this tackle doesnt seem that bad imo, but im guessing the whole 'in the eyes of the law' thing palu didnt really make a very good attempt (or even an attempt) to wrap kearney up....

Like i argued with someone else before, its not a case that i dont want to see it, or i want something banned its just a case of a law is a law!!!!



FrankyH - I dunno what happened....it buffered the whole way but only played a third, so somehow after numerous reloads it worked.....:-/

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 6:03 pm

i think it's a legal hit, a tough but legal one. the irish players go on and ruck as if the situation was normal and i think it is a normal match incident. had it been dangerous, they all would ve reacted. they re surprised the ref stops the game and barely move towards Kearney.
ok it's a massive hit but that's part of rugby heh? no way it's a card.
by Maximus

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 6:04 pm

big headed aussie basterd learn how to tackle you fukin lug, if ya wanna make stupid hits theres plenty of vacancies in the nfl! its shit like this that brings rugby down as a sport

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 6:41 pm

great hit, no card.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 9:07 pm

The IRB = Hannah Montana Fan club.

loosen up them ties and harden up you conga line of suck holes.

bone shattering hit, needless to say-no card!

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PP November 19, 2009 9:20 pm

Anonymous
"I think it was a yellow, made no attempt to wrap his arms, just new and sinister version of a shoulder charge"
Fully agree with you. From their comments I don't think many of the participants at this blog will agree, so I thought I will let you know at least one reader does.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 9:41 pm

The card was a joke, Palu should not have been done like that, the tackle was legit, it was neither a charge nor a high tackle.

As posted earlier, Kearny clearly shoulder charged Elsom as he scored the try in the second half, therefore we should have been given a penalty try, but unfortunately thats the way it is.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 9:48 pm

"Anonymous said... big headed aussie basterd learn how to tackle you fukin lug, if ya wanna make stupid hits theres plenty of vacancies in the nfl! its shit like this that brings rugby down as a sport"

Learn how to play / watch the game, it was a perfectly legal tackle, you unit!

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 10:09 pm

High takle. Penalty.

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mateo colotti November 19, 2009 10:26 pm

high tackle

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 10:55 pm

"Anonymous said... big headed aussie basterd learn how to tackle you fukin lug, if ya wanna make stupid hits theres plenty of vacancies in the nfl! its shit like this that brings rugby down as a sport"

It's losers like you that are changing and screwing up rugby, with your pathetic soccer mentality.

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Tim November 19, 2009 10:58 pm

A few years ago this would have automatically have been seen as just a great tackle.
The game is heading in a terrible direction if this is a card.
The ONLY reason this was carded is that he smashed him.
If he had done the exact same physical action and Kearney hadn't been hammered to the grouynd no one one would have said boo.
For people suggesting he should take into account that Kearney is smaller and should therefore go easy on him, are fucikng serious????? For real???
Should he make him a nice cup of tea and tuck him into bed after the game too?
Fucking soft-c*ck bs.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 11:07 pm

If this is a card, we should card at least ten tackles a game.
Why don't we just get rid of tackling altogether?
Then we could ban using your arms to catch the ball, maybe make the ball a bit rounder and encourage players to start rolling around crying when anyone goes near them.
Fucking ridiculous.

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Anonymous November 19, 2009 11:15 pm

New and sisnister version of a shoulder charge???????
WTF??????
What a tackle??????
Retard.

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Tommo November 19, 2009 11:17 pm

If this had been an Irishman on an Islander it wouldn't have been called, the commentators would have loved it.
This call was major bullshit.

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Jon November 19, 2009 11:34 pm

Double standards, it's apparently ok when a European does it, but it's a problem when an Islander form the SH does it.
Disgraceful.

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Tondero November 19, 2009 11:58 pm

If a pom, wleshman, scot or irishman had done this it wouldn't have been called.
It's bullshit, as evidenced by Lamont and Kearney's hits not even being noticed, in fact Lamonts was applauded.
Fucking disgraceful.

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 12:12 am

"Double standards, it's apparently ok when a European does it, but it's a problem when an Islander form the SH does it.
Disgraceful."

well banahan was sent off for one of his tackles recently so its not just the SH!!

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 1:01 am

You're right it's just mostly Islanders.
And Banahan shouldn't have been sent off either.

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 1:32 am

Even looking at the still picture at the top you can see the refs view. Palu's left arm looks straight and high. Card seemed harsh but if, from the ref's angle, it looked high and straight armed than that is the punishment he has to give.

I agree that if Palu had had a second longer he would've wrapped his arms though so just unlucky.

Mark

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Jon November 20, 2009 1:44 am

It would physically be impossible for Palu to wrap in this tackle.
Impossible.
Besides which, and this is something alot people are apparently unaware of, it's NOT about whther he wraps. It's about whether he tries to. That's the rule, the tackler has to attempt to wrap the guy up with his arms.
That's it.
And clearly he does.
Besides, anyone who actually knows how tackle, knows that the wrap rule is failry stupid, and doesn't really make sense.
You ALWAYS hit with your shoulder, the arms are largely irrelevant to the force and efficiancy of the tackle.

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 4:20 am

Fifty fifty call I guess..
Thought Palu was correct in trying to use his arms but the fact that he hit kearney with the left shoulder meant that Kearney went flying and the hit looked a little high.

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 11:48 am

This is happening too much now, big players putting in large but fair hits that referees dem to be shoulder charges because the other player bounces off before the tackler can fully wrap. There was a clear attempt made by Palu to wrap. Nice neutral commentating by Keith Wood too.

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Huh!! the 3rd November 20, 2009 2:57 pm

'An aging shit side'??

Healy, 22
Ferris, 24
Heaslip, 25
O'Leary, 26
Fitzgearld, 22
Earls, 22
Bowe, 25
Kearney, 23.
Unused sub, Sexton, 24.

I think in world rugby, only Australia had more youger players playing last weekend. Maybe Argentina's backline and ABs 2nd string team v Italy.

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Anonymous November 20, 2009 3:21 pm

haha, it worked!
To be fair, Ireland are nothing without BOD, POC and ROG.

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Phil November 20, 2009 11:02 pm

Funny how Keith Wood apparently doesn't know the rules.
All you have to to do is intend to wrap the guy up. You just have to try to use your arms in the tackle.
That's the rule on charging.
It's not about whether you succeed, just that you try to get your arms round. If you can't, despite trying, as in this tackle, that's ok, you haven't broken the rules.

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Tommo November 20, 2009 11:34 pm

I think I get it.
Palu should have just stepped to the side and said "Please proceed, good sir.", as Kearney ran past.
Can't have players out there tackling each other!! What is this, a game of rugby??

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Anonymous November 21, 2009 1:16 am

What a great tackle.
Pretend the card never came out, we'd all be cheering this hit.

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Anonymous November 21, 2009 5:12 am

Australia were on top when this happened and if that turnover had been allowed to occur (as it should have been since the tackle was legal) they would have been in great field position.
Instead they spent the next ten minutes in their own half defending their line.
This thing with refs reaching for cards way too quickly over nothing incidents (if anything, this was one of the best tackles I've seen this season), really affects the game. It's very hard to watch and not get frustrated with the refs in rugby atm.

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Anonymous November 21, 2009 11:38 am

that was a monster of a hit. nothing wrong with it. completely legal. if i was palu i would be proud.. and kearneys shoulder charge on elsom as he went to score got unpunished. what has happened to the game of rugby.. every big hit now days seems to result in a penalty or a yellow.? im affraid to say but rugby is begining to become soft..

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Anonymous November 21, 2009 12:42 pm

cmon ireland , credit were credit is due. Kearney was towled up in aperfectly legal hit. GET ON WITH IT.

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Anonymous November 21, 2009 12:44 pm

it seems its Ireland vs the rest of the world on this one

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Anonymous December 18, 2009 1:18 pm

Terrible decision by the referee. What else would happen when someone of Kearney's size runs into Cliffy Palu.
Had Kearney put that shoulder charge on someone not as big as Elsom maybe it would have been seen by the ref. Should have got cited for it!

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Olly December 18, 2009 5:40 pm

This incorrect call lost australia the game. The ref should be fined and stood down for a period to improve.

Refs need to pay for a bad day at the office as per everyone else. This is the only way they will improve.

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RugbyFan3006 December 20, 2009 8:32 am

this is a typical irish soccer player act. you see kearny is fine but then puts on a weak 'act' after confirming that the ref has given the penalty! good way to milk the ref mate!

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Admin December 22, 2009 11:29 am

I don't think the problem is the arms, I think the problem is that it's head-high.

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Anonymous December 28, 2009 3:11 pm

Ben Tune couldn't have summed it up better. "What incentive do you have to put a big hit on these days"

Palu shouldn't have been carded, the fact that pisses me off more is that Kaplan is quoted saying "Clearly dangerous, no arms" It wasn't clearly dangerous, because it wasn't illegal, Kaplan shouldn't have said those things because he wasn't sure. A penalty at best even if your not sure. Less controversy will come from a penalty then a yellow card after all.

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ronan December 29, 2009 5:52 pm

apart from the fact he didnt get his arms around kearney he hits him way too high, two ilegal tackles!!!!
yellow all the way....

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Anonymous December 30, 2009 1:14 pm

Sorry Admin, but that's bull.
If it had been head high, Kaplan should have called a head high tackle.
He sent him off for a shoulder charge, which is patently ridiculous, since it was actually just a great tackle.
If this is a head high, half the tackles in the game are.
Also, there's no way it would deserve a card.
Ridiculous card.

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Anonymous January 15, 2010 9:56 pm

the outcome is ridiculous...the impact was fair, not high. and how are you meant to wrap someone thats bounces off your shoulder when you hit them that hard. he just got absolutely battered nd fair play. that hit was GOOD!

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rossco92 January 24, 2010 12:13 am

how is he supposed to get his arms around when rob kearny just bounces off? he's made and attempt so it should just have been a penalty without a card.

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Anonymous January 24, 2010 1:33 pm

Possibly not worth a yellow card, but who can blame the ref for that??
I mean, he's not omnipotent or anything, just trying to do his job as well as he can.

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Anonymous January 25, 2010 11:01 am

that is not a card
absolute rubbish

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stegunimataka February 10, 2010 3:47 pm

Cant IRB introduce video ref on all incidences and not only on tries being scored??..talking about RUGBY DEVELOPMENT! so we could avoid the RACIST explanation and lastly avoid REF making silly mistakes...just an idea

Fijian tackler!!

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Anonymous August 16, 2010 6:50 pm

What a terrible call - we have seen this in the tri nations as well and as one of the commentators said 'its the most ridiculous rule in Rugby Union'.

Contact sport Rugby league has good clean hits with the shoulder and no increase in injury...also makes a better spectators game to have the bigger hits.

Refs need to stop calling these legal hits...this one is chest height sqaure on and with a wrap, the kearney just bonuced off the wrap.

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