New Zealand beat England at Twickenham

someone said in the SA anthem video he'd hate to be an ENG fan (when eng were playing)

Well imo, i think considering eng are 6th in the world and NZ are 1st that to stop a runaway score they did well....

....just too many mistakes!

Wow thats fast to put this up!

Much better from england but still got a lot to improve, at least they looked like they were actually trying

England looked so dull. Martin Johnson is sucking the passion and flair out of english rugby.

guys i know the coach is a big deal to rally players, select them, but if people cock up on a pitch and throw wild passes its hardly a coaches actions which caused that!

As a bok fan, I honestly feel that Martin Johnson is the best man for the job at the moment, remember JW's bad run with the boks and we all wanted his head - then he won us the world cup and the rest is history!
Give Martin a chance, England will come good!

^^^^ someone with sense....

it doesnt all happen straight away!

MJ is a man who has done it, fought it, won it.....and at times lost it (and thrown punches!)

Exactly Anon above, SA dominant all season, 3 from 3 v NZ, 1 loss to France and NZ are back on top. Very unusual. I thought you can only go up the rankings when you beat teams above you, NZ's wins over Wales, Italy and England shouldn't affect SA's No.1 spot.


Oh yeah, and a poor game. Defense rules the day yet again. Great play for the try, especially McCaw, the guy is just one of the best to ever play. On current form though, ABs don't look world beaters, which is bad for everyone else, as they seem to be gearing up for 2011 properly.

As an England fan, Anyone wh thinks that replacing Martin Johnson and a few coches is going to make a huge difference is delusional.

Ok, so just who would you have picked? New Zealand are a better side than England right now, and we just have to accept that.

Positives? Haskell was very good...if he can just learn to offload in the tackle he has great potential. The scrum was better when Thompson came on.

Hipkiss is a good club player but the is simply not fast enough or powerful enough for international rugby. Tait has international pace and should be in the starting line up.

Overall a face scoreline...maybe 19-9....

New Zealand needs Robbie Deans

To Huh the 3rd

Teams also lose ranking points if they lose to teams ranked below them...

Sheep getting the no. 1 spot makes the entire ranking system a joke.

South Africa 3, New Zealand, 0

Yes, and South Africa also lost to France, lost to Australia, and came last in last year's tri-nations. If the rankings only counted 6 months of rugby then they'd be pretty stupid.

I watched the game and England never threatened to create any "sustained" momentum. One or two breaks but then Wilko received the ball sat back deep with no ambition and then England pass it slowly out and eventually concede possession. People were pleased with our battling performance but the match could only go one way as it went on! In essence, I felt like a "less negative" performance was being turned into a positive.

Banahan should not be seen in an England shirt again, England have plenty of talent should they look to use it. Strettle could be a long term star if he settles in to the England shirt.

It was like McCaw had harry potters invisibility clock and caplin could not see him, iv sad it before and i will say it again, caplin is the worst ref in the world, not just because of this match but because time and time again he has showen how bad he is and that he should not be a pro ref

people conplain so much about the rankings dont they!?
you have to get over who is on top or not! if you look at the all blacks recent form ( 5 wins in a row) compared to SA who have lost 2 games to non national teams, then of course its gonna change in the rankings!
you cant blame that you had a 2nd rate team against them, if you cant put up a team, dont play!

It is called consistency. If another team is able to string a couple of years of great results together they will generally challenge for the top spot.

If they are unable to, don't be surprised if the rankings show them up.

The crap that is regularly spouted on this website is staggering. All teams play under the same ranking criteria. To whinge about it shows massive immaturity or ignorance of the system.

If South Africa had been more consistant they would have the top spot sown up (much like NZ had a mortgage on it), but they haven't been, simple as that.

Obvious trolls are obvious, don't react to them.

Is it just me... or is rugby so boring these days???

P.S McCaw is the man!!!

Great to see mills back to his running best, he was a handful all night. I thought he deserved man of the match, McCaw played very well though.

Glad to see the boys win, but where are the tries at??
I guess winning tough is good.. but something is missing still.

South Africa is back at #1.

Hate to say it, but this all black team is one of the worst i have seen for awhile.

Too bad the other teams are too useless to beat them.

Except France & South Africa!

World Cup just around the corner, boys! They stuck France in New Zealand's pool for a reason - so when New Zealan lose they'll have one more chance. It won't matter though because a fired up celtic nation will take them out in the quarters.

There are very few positives for England to take from this autumn. Lewis Moody is one, who once again was playing out of his skin, Simon Shaw's return is another and Cueto is the third. Other than that I'd be perfectly happy if lots of the other players never pulled on an England shirt again (esp. the props, the locks and the centres)

Japanmannz WTF only international tests are involved in the rankings. Playing against a club isn't an international test match so therefore have nothing at all to do with the rankings so that's got nothing to do with the boks going to 2nd

the autumn series used to be so interesting a few years back irrespective of who won, but although i am a hardcore rugby fan, i can't seem to sit and watch the whole game these days, it's like watching football.

New Zealand haven't conceded a try in the northern hemisphere since 2006, omg now that is impressive

"the autumn series used to be so interesting a few years back irrespective of who won, but although i am a hardcore rugby fan, i can't seem to sit and watch the whole game these days, it's like watching football."

Not a true fan

the commentary said no northern hemisphere side has scored a try against NZ since 2006. what about munster in thomond last year?

No doubt that Moody was at his "mad dog" best yesterday but the look of that back row was not too clever. Moody dives on the loose ball, tackles loads and challenges at kick offs, but he offers nothing on the floor and turns over no ball by tackling and getting back on his feet straight away to challenge. As we don't play right and left in England, so much of this duty as 7 is up to the open-side. Moody provides none of it, Haskell is not too sharp at that either and Croft really is better in a team going forward. I like him but he has no skill in the dark arts. A real open-side please England! Tom Rees is injured but they could have gone for Stefan Armitage whose good form hasn't been rewarded. When Moody made his break through in the team it was as a 6 to Neil Back at 7, he looked great at this role but since world cup 2003, it's cringeworthy how little he suits the 7 role which he always plays!

rugby is a dying sport, so many boring games full of kicking

I was with a few England supporters (South African living in England)and the lads were all satisfied with Englands performance as before the match they thought they were going to get thrashed by NZ.

Happy with a loss and by not to big a points margin = pretty much sums up England at the moment....

I'd say that wasn't a Test match Anonymous

I know what you mean Jot, I certainly know a few England fans who are willing to see a 13 point defeat as 'not that bad'. As long as we have that attitude we'll never be in the Top 3 in the world again. That was the kind of attitude we had throughout the late nineties and which led to such unambitious rugby.

England fans deserve better than such a turgid pile of old crap as we've had to watch this autumn. If we'd at least blooded some promising new players like Lawes and Steffon Armitage and Ben Foden we could draw some positives. As it is, yet another patchy season beckons.

I know England were not playing champagne rugby even during their best period from 2001-2003 say, but watching Wilkinson now, I would hate to see young english players like Foden and Waldouck have to play outside Wilkinson. Our back line is hopeless because he just doesn't know how to set his backline on the offensive. We don't even know how to use the occasional turnover ball that we get. I wonder what might have happened had we faced Broussow this autumn? We are so slow to the contact area and poor at securing our ball, it would have been a bloodbath. Everyone loves Moody but he does nothing on the floor, a fine athlete he may be but he is no open-side.

england needs inspiration. and brains.

Eng was very poor, but fortunately NZ was also poor (scrum/fly halves). Eng possession was terrible, back line did shit.

John F, I'm Irish so from a neutral point I can't agree with the champagne rugby talk. People seem to think all England did in this period, 2003, was stick it up the jumper and bully their way over the line. That isn't true. Look at England's top try scoring stats and other than Underwood and Guescott, all the others are from Wilkinson's era, Greenwood, Cohen, Robinson, Lewesy, Luger and Balshaw, and all with better strike rates aswell. Now, you can't have a high scoring backline with a 10 who just kicks in your side.

Whats happening at the minute isn't solely Wilko's fault. Like some have noted here, Hipkiss is a great clubman, but not an international 13, likewise Banahan and Erinile (spelling). He clearly isn't been given the men outside him like he had in 2003. At the start of the season, Gerathy's move to Northampton looked to have back fired until Myler's injury moved him from 12 to 10. He looks a much more round player there and England looked a lot better when he and Wilko did a Giteau and Cooper and switch around. Lets not forget that for all the talk of Wilko's kicking, he is a much better passer than kicker out of hand. Yet, if he goes to his centre's, they just bash it up the middle and aren't going to create space for the wings.

Look what I've been reduced to, a Paddy defending Clive Woodward and Martin Johnson's England. I hope you're all happy.

OH and that idiot Stuart Barnes going on about Carter's poor missed penalties. If I remember last years game, Barnes was on the same trip ('he's human afterall', 'I would've put the house on him getting that'.. Idiot)when Carter had an aweful night from the tee aswell. The reason I like Carter and Giteau is they have a small tendancy to miss the easy ones from in front of the posts (they have done it a few times) and then produce magic from the touchline.

OH and that idiot Stuart Barnes going on about Carter's poor missed penalties. If I remember last years game, Barnes was on the same trip ('he's human afterall', 'I would've put the house on him getting that'.. Idiot)when Carter had an aweful night from the tee aswell. The reason I like Carter and Giteau is they have a small tendancy to miss the easy ones from in front of the posts (they have done it a few times) and then produce magic from the touchline.

England tactics just seem so out of line...

Wilko should be barred from drop goals unless it's a 2 point ball game...England need to keep the ball and learn to work as a team on offence...

On defence they were all poor last week but a lot better yesterday. Banahan was still in the past though...his defence is terrible for a big, fast strong man...the NZ try was largely Banahans fault and he was undecided in his defence on Sivivatu many times before that in the game which led to NZ making loads of ground on his wing...

Stick with Johnno but get a proper tactician in to work with him and this side could even be hot contenders for the 2011 RWC...

I disagree with everyone who thinks Hipkiss is not test standard. Get rid of Gerehty and you get rid of the indecision that is retarding the english backline.

Too many cooks spoil the broth as they say and with a team rebuilding as England are selecting 2 playmakers is suicide andI feel the results and performance prove this point!!!

Drop Gerehty and bring in Tait...this would cut out the indecision in the backline outside of the 12 channel. Nobody seems to know what's comming their way with him there. With Tait you get more pace for a start but more importantly you get a player who is far more self sacrificing and readily puts his body on the line to put others around him into half gaps and space.

Gerehty is playing like another 10 in the 12 channel in otherwords everything is happening too late...the opposition is all over Hipkiss if he even gets the ball...???

Huh!! the 3rd,

Stats can be misleading! You are right that we scored more tries during that era but it was in no way as thrilling in the backs as you might suggest! The most important player in attacking terms then was Will Greenwood who had superb passing skills.

Take the game when we won the grand slam in Dublin for example. First try from Dallaglio after great work by Hill, then we had to wait till the second half for a bosh job up the middle from Tindall. England finished with 5 tries I think as Ireland faded but at no point in that game where they creating breaks and chances in the back line. Likewise at the world cup. All the way back to 2000 we were throwing it around more and Balshaw :S:S:S was on fire, but otherwise the try stats can be misleading I would say!

really think wilko has to go..hes awfully low on attacking ambition and invention.the one time england threatened the nz line he goes for a drop goal.much more was happening when geraghty came on and slotted in at 10,and care came in too,he took the ball to the line and generally tended to make yardage whether it was running himself or putting someone in the hole..

England rughy = Boring

Dan Carter totally showed Jonny up in that game. his goal kicking was off tho . clearly showed hes the best 1st 5 in th world. I hate when people say us nzers are cocky, were a small country and are passionate when we beat other, much larger countries.

"Why isn't that a yellow card?"
Very good question, you can be sure that if a Pacific Islander was blatantly throwing wild punches into the face of another player in the ruck he would have been sent off immediately. You know it's true.

Steyn, Hernadez, Wilkinson and Jones are all better than Carter. Stop drinking the cool aid kiwi boy.

Peter K,

I agree, but besides you there is no mention of the blatant thuggery by anyone in this thread. Do you reckon there will be a citing? In a rational world with a impartial governing board for rugby you can bet there would be one. Alas, I would not be surprised if this is swept under the carpet.
Can you picture the outrage if a Springbok did this? There would be a citing guaranteed and no doubt people would be screaming for month-long bans and this thread would devolve into a bash-off with Saffers vs. the rest of the world. Thankfully it was just an Englishman with a few 'innocent' punches to the head right in front of the ref. No harm done. Carry on chaps, and make sure to let us know if you see any Boers chewing gum or spitting so we can cite and punish them accordingly.

I would suggest that anyone who rates Wilkinson as better than Carter has been on something a little more substantial than cool aid.

Or was dropped on their head as a child......more than once.

Andrew said...
Peter K, I agree, but besides you there is no mention of the blatant thuggery by anyone in this thread. Do you reckon there will be a citing?

Oh I don't know Andrew, are you suggesting that punching a player several times in the head so blatantly that the ref even had to penalise him is as bad as accidentally clipping him across the ear during a tackle? After all Payne wears white which is supposed to mean he's a good guy, right? Don't hold your breath.
And as you say, the silence on this is deafening.

Wilkinson's a better defender than Carter, his attack is about the same. His chip and chase and quick offload from a couple of weeks ago was legendary. His kicking has been off, but I trust he'll return to fine form in the near future. Carter's decision making is quite poor, JDV intercept try immediately comes to mind. His tackling can be good, but he doesn't always put his body on the line - he doesn't always commit in the tackle.

hipkiss's tackling was pathetic

Jonathan Kaplan is a bit of a tool.

I know he's pedantic, and that's a bit of a problem in of itself...he's consistent, though, so really no qualms with that - he's usually one of the "fairest" refs out there. It's a pain to see him penalize every few phases, but whatever...

My problem with his calls tonight were where he drew the line between penalizing defense for not allowing the tackled player to place the ball vs. penalizing the attacking team for not releasing. It's a very thin line, and he likes to play on that line...it just makes it frustrating then when he calls it the other way than it probably should've been called.

Anyways, that's not an excuse for England or bitterness from New Zealand; it was just something I got a bit annoyed at while watching.

I think this match was great for the first half or so because it was a bit of a showcase of Wilko vs. Carter...both of which had a bit of an off-night. I guess this weekend was just really not good for a lot of number 10's (Steyn was awful!).

can't watch rugby matches these days, live of highlights of great games from 1999-2007. legendary years.

England has been sucking since 2003. How can a nation with such a huge player base suck so hard and for so long? They need Jake White.

Dear RD,

Eat a dick... You call the pass to cowan forward but not the one from Haban to Fourie in the italian game??

You and Combatcock should go play dress ups and fuck.

Ha ha Combatcock... Thats a good one!

That guys videos are so bias its a joke!!!

Moody is far better at the break down than people realise. Bottom line is, he can offer everything that Back was capable of + more strength, pace and insanity. It's just that he barely got a string of games together and he spent a stupendous amount of time dirt tracking for loose balls. One thing people must realise is that having a scavaging 7 is a bonus when you have a set of tight forward to do their jobs (like Brussow was born at the right time. He provides the missing piece in the Boks pack). If you don't bring the carrier down first, there's nothing to scavaged
Just give Tait the 13 shirt FFS

Johnno must repeat what Capalo did with English football: grab a clean slate, wipe out every name on the team sheet (that includes Jonny Wilkinson) and pick the team from scratch.

I am a loyal England fan, but more importantly, speaking a fan of RUGBY, I must concede Carter is indisputedly the best fly half all round (and Stephen Jones the most consistent). Surely he doesn't smash people but he gets low, take the man down and what more could you ask for?
Wiko put up an divinely inspired display in defence against Aussie, but we should realise when he does that we're in trouble. Wilko looked lacking in set piece but he was brilliant in open play, which raises the debate of whether he'd be better ultilised as a 12.

On the 5th of July 2008, the All Blacks played South Africa in Wellington. The All Blacks won 19-8. However, Jimmy Cowan played that test as a reserve but did not get that test. So on the All Blacks website, it says he got 31 tests instead of 32. I wish this to be fixed immediately as it is misleading.

Haven't read all the posts don't have time. I'd just like to say that being english and a diehard fan, I am now ready to admit we are pants and for the first time in my life that Carter is better than Wilkinson (currently).

There i said it.

english rugby is terrible what a bad performance,martin johnson is not the man for the job,