Tuesday, December 01, 2009
Italy end losing streak with win over Samoa
Luke McLeans excellent first half try set them on their way before Mirco Bergamasco kicked eight points, Craig Gower slotted a long range penalty, and Tito Tebaldi slotted a dropgoal. A penalty try late in the game then sealed the victory for Nick Mallets side.
"I'm happy, it was a good win,'' winger Mirco Bergamasco said. "We had to win. It was something we had to do. Whether we won well, or won badly, we had to win.''
They were without inspirational leader Sergio Parisse, who is out for about four months after picking up a serious knee injury in training. He was operated on after the match, but was sideline, on crutches, to offer support.
Samoa struggled to get into the game, and didnt score a point in the second half. Having their winder red carded for a high tackle on fullback McLean didnt help matters.
Its the first time Italy has beaten Samoa in four matches played between the two sides.
"It has been a long time,'' Italy coach Nick Mallett said. "Today, we were better than Samoa were and that was the main thing. I think our team had a good game, scoring 24 points, though it should have been 10 or 15 more.
"Mirco was kicking well in training this week, so we thought it would be worth trying him today,'' Mallett said. "But everyone, Tito Tebaldi, Craig Gower, Luke McLean must work on their kicking to get it to international level.
"We kept the ball in their half, stayed disciplined and didn't do anything stupid, but we made mistakes that we won't be able to get away with in the Six Nations.''
Samoa go away from Europe empty handed after earlier losses to France and Wales. The majority of their players will join the Top 14 and Guinness Premiership, but will be disappointed at not having achieved more on tour.
After decent showings against New Zealand, South Africa, and now beating Samoa, Italy look the strongest theyve been for some time. Theyll go into the Six Nations with far more confidence than what they would have had a month ago.
Time: 05:48
Posted at 10:03 am | 69 comments
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Viewing 69 comments
Stephen December 01, 2009 10:21 am
first
do Italy have the best scrum in world rugby?
Castro must be regarded as the worlds best tighthead?
Any thoughts?
do Italy have the best scrum in world rugby?
Castro must be regarded as the worlds best tighthead?
Any thoughts?
VictorSoCalRuggger December 01, 2009 10:37 am
uhhh no, i dont see why everyone like him, hes got some size, props are kinda getting smaller. thing to coaches is, if the guy is good and solid at the scrum, why not.
too bad for somoa, did well vs. wales and u can tell they got aggrivated. it one of the main reasons for not doing well for teams down the irb list, example: ireland beat sa this weekend, but i doubt they can do it or give a good contest everytime. same for samoa, they did well vs. wales, but they need max effort every single time, not just when they feel like it... p.s. ireland is not a lesser team on the list, they have spirit and talent, just not as good as sa...
too bad for somoa, did well vs. wales and u can tell they got aggrivated. it one of the main reasons for not doing well for teams down the irb list, example: ireland beat sa this weekend, but i doubt they can do it or give a good contest everytime. same for samoa, they did well vs. wales, but they need max effort every single time, not just when they feel like it... p.s. ireland is not a lesser team on the list, they have spirit and talent, just not as good as sa...
whatdidyousay December 01, 2009 10:59 am
would that have been a red card if that wasn't a pacific island team? Admittedly very high and a really awful tackle, but red?
Anonymous December 01, 2009 11:10 am
Ridiculous red card.
It was a head high tackle, but even a yellow would be harsh for what seemed completely accidental.
Faafilli is not a dirty player, and I think Samoa is paying for their reputation.
Thing is a ref shouldn't give cards on reputation, they're supposed to be objective.
Bad reffing.
It was a head high tackle, but even a yellow would be harsh for what seemed completely accidental.
Faafilli is not a dirty player, and I think Samoa is paying for their reputation.
Thing is a ref shouldn't give cards on reputation, they're supposed to be objective.
Bad reffing.
Anonymous December 01, 2009 11:11 am
Thing is scrummaging is just one part of front row play.
Castro offers little in attack and his defense is merely adequate.
Castro offers little in attack and his defense is merely adequate.
Phil December 01, 2009 11:19 am
Disappointed that Somoa didn't have the best of games. Wish they'd have a bit more discipline too.
Surprised at the red card too. Does a lack of leniency against the Pacific Islander teams really exist? I do accept that was a terrible tackle though...no doubt about it.
And good to see Luke McLean getting a good run :)
Surprised at the red card too. Does a lack of leniency against the Pacific Islander teams really exist? I do accept that was a terrible tackle though...no doubt about it.
And good to see Luke McLean getting a good run :)
Cheis December 01, 2009 11:28 am
i think it was red because of the way he pulled through his high tackle..
it was a high arm (yellow) but then he even pulled the player down round his neck dangerously (red)
it was a high arm (yellow) but then he even pulled the player down round his neck dangerously (red)
Anonymous December 01, 2009 11:58 am
Samoa No.6 @ 3:00mins Pulling Hair??
Has it really come to this?
He should have had a card and told to go and play football.
Has it really come to this?
He should have had a card and told to go and play football.
Anonymous December 01, 2009 12:06 pm
Well it's not a red because he is a pacific islander, it's a red because he's a thug. And yes lots of pacific islanders are
Anonymous December 01, 2009 12:50 pm
That's a stupid thing to say anon.
Faafili is not a thug, he's never been considered a dirty player.
You don't know what your talking about, obviously.
Faafili is not a thug, he's never been considered a dirty player.
You don't know what your talking about, obviously.
samitarugby December 01, 2009 12:56 pm
finally! lets just hope parisse gets better asap!
The Inside Shoulder December 01, 2009 1:01 pm
Over the past year or so i think it's become undeniable that double standards towards Islanders do exist that borders on being racist.
However, part of this appears to players reaction. If a white player puts in a high tackle or one without arms then everyone assumes that it was accidental and the reaction is not as bad. If an islander does it then the other players go crazy and everyone assumes it was because they are thugs.
That was never a red card, yellow at best. If that had been an Italian player it would've been a yellow or a penalty.
Although it has to be said that Islanders do seem to make more illegal tackles than other players.
More thoughts?
However, part of this appears to players reaction. If a white player puts in a high tackle or one without arms then everyone assumes that it was accidental and the reaction is not as bad. If an islander does it then the other players go crazy and everyone assumes it was because they are thugs.
That was never a red card, yellow at best. If that had been an Italian player it would've been a yellow or a penalty.
Although it has to be said that Islanders do seem to make more illegal tackles than other players.
More thoughts?
Jim December 01, 2009 1:51 pm
ridiculous red card... a yellow would have been sufficient. had it been australia or ireland playing it would never have been a red. especially no warning, no yellow card...
shit refereeing
shit refereeing
Rob December 01, 2009 2:46 pm
The red did seem pretty harsh. I didn't see the whole game though so it may have been off the back of other incidents I suppose.
Also, anyone see what the Italian penalty try at the end was for? I couldn't really decide that the Samoans did to deserve that.
Also, anyone see what the Italian penalty try at the end was for? I couldn't really decide that the Samoans did to deserve that.
Anonymous December 01, 2009 3:00 pm
no way that's a red! any shoulder,just a straight arm on mclean's throat,I mean is not like the card that has given to bahanan in HC against mirco bergamasco that wasn't a card!
really disappointing to see the scene of samoan 6 at 3.00
really disappointing to see the scene of samoan 6 at 3.00
DDK December 01, 2009 3:28 pm
at a boy McLean! I used to drink with that guy in high school! At a boy!
even so the red was a little harsh i thought.
even so the red was a little harsh i thought.
Anonymous December 01, 2009 3:32 pm
Red card was more unexpected than harsh. Went in high and continued to tackle even though he was high. It wasn't a quick reaction and McLean didn't duck into it, very reckless at best and certainly dangerous... Reputation may have led to it being a red card, but can't really say it was a bad decision
Danremont
Danremont
Canadian Content December 01, 2009 3:33 pm
Rugby dump I hope you address te following cowardly comment properly...
"Anonymous said...
Well it's not a red because he is a pacific islander, it's a red because he's a thug. And yes lots of pacific islanders are
December 01, 2009 1:06 PM"
Get this racist BS off this site. Rugby is a global game that is supposed to bring us together not divide us.
Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd have to say I agree with the red card. Maclean could have easily been severely injured. He's lucky he wasn't. Any dangerous tackle that has potential to injure a player does not belong in rugby. And neither do the players that make them. There was nothing wrong with Faafili's timing, he just chose to make a reckless tackle. Perhaps refs are unfairly targetting Islanders, I don't disagree with that. But I believe any player who makes such a tackle deserves a red card.
"Anonymous said...
Well it's not a red because he is a pacific islander, it's a red because he's a thug. And yes lots of pacific islanders are
December 01, 2009 1:06 PM"
Get this racist BS off this site. Rugby is a global game that is supposed to bring us together not divide us.
Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd have to say I agree with the red card. Maclean could have easily been severely injured. He's lucky he wasn't. Any dangerous tackle that has potential to injure a player does not belong in rugby. And neither do the players that make them. There was nothing wrong with Faafili's timing, he just chose to make a reckless tackle. Perhaps refs are unfairly targetting Islanders, I don't disagree with that. But I believe any player who makes such a tackle deserves a red card.
Anonymous December 01, 2009 3:34 pm
_ yeahhh, ridiculous red, had it been SA doing it, JP would have got a pat on the back 8-)
Anonymous December 01, 2009 4:29 pm
He should have kneed him in the back instead of tackling his neck. He would have only given a penalty then.
rodofle December 01, 2009 4:29 pm
Differences of judgement by the refs is becoming ridiculous. In the France-Samoa game, Clerc has been absolutely trashed by a samoan who tackled him at the throat and wrapped his head when falling on the ground, and there wasn't even a
penalty! He could have broke his neck but the ref just told him "calm down"... Ridiculous
penalty! He could have broke his neck but the ref just told him "calm down"... Ridiculous
Chris M December 01, 2009 6:06 pm
A great win for the Italians! I find it incredible that with so much quality in so many different areas of the field, that they still aren't as great a rugby nation as they should be. I mean I'm an englishman, and if you look at the quality of players in each side, italy do have just as many, if not more class players in their current squad. Castro, Bortolami, The Bergamascos, Parisse (best no.8 in the world, but such an unfortunate injury!) and Luke Mclean is maturing nicely. Not to mention Marcato when he's back.
I hope they manage to compete much more in the coming 6 nations, but I feel that without Parisse the competition is just not the same. Poor guy, the home nations will miss you
I hope they manage to compete much more in the coming 6 nations, but I feel that without Parisse the competition is just not the same. Poor guy, the home nations will miss you
Teora December 01, 2009 6:49 pm
one thing that is not mentioned is that italy cant be considered as a country im tired of seeing players all around the world playing in that team.. one year they had like 10 argentine players in the team.. thats a joke! it is obvious that if they buy players of other countries they will play better
Anonymous December 01, 2009 7:29 pm
nice to see Italy chucking the ball around a bit more. Great win for them. Can't help but feel they'll struggle in the 6N without Parisse though. I hope they at least manage to beat England (which is certainly not impossible)
TheShit December 01, 2009 7:30 pm
yes Teoria is right.
+ italian supporters act like footballfans
+ italian supporters act like footballfans
BigKev December 01, 2009 10:09 pm
Why is it people always have something spiteful to say about every team/nation?
Can't you just congratulate and respect them like you would expect for your favourite team?
Every bloody video has to have some old bullshit about why teams are "shit" and should be hated forever.
I don't know if it's just the site or are the next gen of Rugby fans really this arrogant and narrowminded.
Anyway, congratulations to Italy, too bad Samoa weren't as together like they were against Wales, would have made the match more exciting, and probably closer.
As for the red i don't know, yellow would have been enough, there weren't any other dangerous actions during the game, but if McLean had been severely injured and the ref only gave a yellow im sure he would be criticised just as much.
Can't you just congratulate and respect them like you would expect for your favourite team?
Every bloody video has to have some old bullshit about why teams are "shit" and should be hated forever.
I don't know if it's just the site or are the next gen of Rugby fans really this arrogant and narrowminded.
Anyway, congratulations to Italy, too bad Samoa weren't as together like they were against Wales, would have made the match more exciting, and probably closer.
As for the red i don't know, yellow would have been enough, there weren't any other dangerous actions during the game, but if McLean had been severely injured and the ref only gave a yellow im sure he would be criticised just as much.
goodNumber10 December 01, 2009 10:33 pm
the whole Double standards thing is utter rubbish. Pacific Islanders play in top class rugby week in week out and many of them don't do this kind of rubbish.
The fact is it was a dangerous tackle, that could have seriously injured the player, it's no less worse then a Spear tackle for which it's a straight Red now.
Dangerous, malicious tackle late in the game deserved a red imo.
I'm tired of seeing people, specifically PI guys getting away with big dangerous hits because it's how they play the game.
go in hard yrs, hit the man hard yes, but don't do it dangerously or illegally.
It's a dangerous enough game as it is, we don't need this kind of rubbish in it.
The fact is it was a dangerous tackle, that could have seriously injured the player, it's no less worse then a Spear tackle for which it's a straight Red now.
Dangerous, malicious tackle late in the game deserved a red imo.
I'm tired of seeing people, specifically PI guys getting away with big dangerous hits because it's how they play the game.
go in hard yrs, hit the man hard yes, but don't do it dangerously or illegally.
It's a dangerous enough game as it is, we don't need this kind of rubbish in it.
Tommo December 01, 2009 10:39 pm
It was just a high tackle.
They happen allt he time by accident. All teams do them.
This was no more dangerous (in fact alot less dangerous than others I've seen - this was an arm round the shoulder, that snuck up high - have a look at the Welsh player's attempted tackle on Polot-Nau as he scored the try in the Aus vs Wales match on the weekend - very similar action).
Because he's Samoan (and the ref is French and has an unrealistic and very niave view of Islanders) he gets carded.
However, Faafilli is not a dirty player, never has been. He's a very experienced, proffesional player, who's played in comps and for teams all over the world in two different sports. At no point did he earn a reputation as a 'thug'.
People who assume Islanders are thugs are racist arseholes, who should be head high tackled themselves.
And if another team had done this it would be either a penalty (which would be the fairest option - since it was a pure accident) or at most a yellow. A red is insane.
And for people thinking you can give out just enough cards that head highs will stop, you have no idea what you're talking about, you've probably never played the game in real life and you are preaching FIFA soccer babble about removing foul play.
In rugby head highs happen, usually by accident, all the time. They always will. People don't die from it.
Scrums and line-outs are in fact much, much more dangerous, in perfectly legal ways, so shut up about the odd high tackle.
They happen allt he time by accident. All teams do them.
This was no more dangerous (in fact alot less dangerous than others I've seen - this was an arm round the shoulder, that snuck up high - have a look at the Welsh player's attempted tackle on Polot-Nau as he scored the try in the Aus vs Wales match on the weekend - very similar action).
Because he's Samoan (and the ref is French and has an unrealistic and very niave view of Islanders) he gets carded.
However, Faafilli is not a dirty player, never has been. He's a very experienced, proffesional player, who's played in comps and for teams all over the world in two different sports. At no point did he earn a reputation as a 'thug'.
People who assume Islanders are thugs are racist arseholes, who should be head high tackled themselves.
And if another team had done this it would be either a penalty (which would be the fairest option - since it was a pure accident) or at most a yellow. A red is insane.
And for people thinking you can give out just enough cards that head highs will stop, you have no idea what you're talking about, you've probably never played the game in real life and you are preaching FIFA soccer babble about removing foul play.
In rugby head highs happen, usually by accident, all the time. They always will. People don't die from it.
Scrums and line-outs are in fact much, much more dangerous, in perfectly legal ways, so shut up about the odd high tackle.
Mise December 01, 2009 10:45 pm
Canadian content:
by fully quoting the thing u found offensive, u made it pointless for RD to get rid of it!
On the whole islanders issue and high tackles:
is it in any was possible to have an informed, grown up debate about whether there is in fact a higher number of high tackles when they play? Is it more like that in the south sea, in club matches (not even sure about the structures in the islands for club rugby)?
I mean, it is certainly possible to talk about types of rugby: some teams kick a lot, some run a lot, or at least have traditions of running. Islanders are known for many things, including high tackles. Is this fair? Is it more part of their game or not? Ppl from NZ, the islands (obviously!) or ppl who have spend time over there including playing over there might be more informed than the rest of us.
In Ireland, Munsters' Mafi for example is often a great tackler (see some of his hits here on RD, esp against chabal), but does go in high a little more often than is standard - I think. (based on observation, not stats)
More info welcome
by fully quoting the thing u found offensive, u made it pointless for RD to get rid of it!
On the whole islanders issue and high tackles:
is it in any was possible to have an informed, grown up debate about whether there is in fact a higher number of high tackles when they play? Is it more like that in the south sea, in club matches (not even sure about the structures in the islands for club rugby)?
I mean, it is certainly possible to talk about types of rugby: some teams kick a lot, some run a lot, or at least have traditions of running. Islanders are known for many things, including high tackles. Is this fair? Is it more part of their game or not? Ppl from NZ, the islands (obviously!) or ppl who have spend time over there including playing over there might be more informed than the rest of us.
In Ireland, Munsters' Mafi for example is often a great tackler (see some of his hits here on RD, esp against chabal), but does go in high a little more often than is standard - I think. (based on observation, not stats)
More info welcome
Vic December 01, 2009 10:55 pm
......so Tommo...
....what exactly warrants a red card in your eyes?
i have heard you comment on almost every islander tackle and say 'it wasnt that bad'
then you make a comment on the BOD injury in the lions tour where he was speared (YES HE WAS SPEARED) saying 'he wasnt beyond horizontal!'
Then you say this tackle rose up off the shoulder...are you watching a different video to all of us? you seem to say that all tackles rise up and arent that bad!
He nearly took the wingers head off and one day someones gonna get a very nasty neck injury.....what will be your comment then?! 'ah well, he just hit him in the neck, it wasnt that bad, probably didnt deserve a penalty!'
....what exactly warrants a red card in your eyes?
i have heard you comment on almost every islander tackle and say 'it wasnt that bad'
then you make a comment on the BOD injury in the lions tour where he was speared (YES HE WAS SPEARED) saying 'he wasnt beyond horizontal!'
Then you say this tackle rose up off the shoulder...are you watching a different video to all of us? you seem to say that all tackles rise up and arent that bad!
He nearly took the wingers head off and one day someones gonna get a very nasty neck injury.....what will be your comment then?! 'ah well, he just hit him in the neck, it wasnt that bad, probably didnt deserve a penalty!'
Tommo December 01, 2009 11:17 pm
If it's been an Irishman it wouldn't have been a red.
Jon December 01, 2009 11:25 pm
I've played with and against Islanders my whole life.
In my experience, they are generally bigger than the average European and so put on bigger hits. They also tend to be pretty tough hombres, but not always, often people just assume they are cuz they're so big.
There's a few interesting points to make.
Many of these guys don't come directly from the ISlands, or moved away when they were very young.
Most of them play or began their rugby in NZ or Australia, places with huge Islander populations. So it stand to reason that they are no more likely to play dirty than the average Australian or New Zealander. In fact many of them are NZ or Aus citizens.
In the past they probably did deserve their reputation much more, but they're more professional now (the national teams), more disciplined.
The point though, is that refs are supposed to be above all this crap, and are just supposed to ref to the laws.
That's not what happened. Islanders get harsh punishments for things players from other countries would get away with.
In this instance, Faafili is not a dirty player, never has been. This was without doubt an accident, the guy cut back across and Faafili threw his arm out. You see this all the time, it's probly the most common time you see head highs, when a guy has been wrong footed and throws out a despairing arm.
If Faafili was a European I find it very hard to believe he would get a red.
That alone is enough to say this was a bad call, bad reffing.
So do Islanders head high more? Impossible to say, since some Islanders do and some don't. It's too broad and sweeping a statement to answer or prove.
In my experience, they are generally bigger than the average European and so put on bigger hits. They also tend to be pretty tough hombres, but not always, often people just assume they are cuz they're so big.
There's a few interesting points to make.
Many of these guys don't come directly from the ISlands, or moved away when they were very young.
Most of them play or began their rugby in NZ or Australia, places with huge Islander populations. So it stand to reason that they are no more likely to play dirty than the average Australian or New Zealander. In fact many of them are NZ or Aus citizens.
In the past they probably did deserve their reputation much more, but they're more professional now (the national teams), more disciplined.
The point though, is that refs are supposed to be above all this crap, and are just supposed to ref to the laws.
That's not what happened. Islanders get harsh punishments for things players from other countries would get away with.
In this instance, Faafili is not a dirty player, never has been. This was without doubt an accident, the guy cut back across and Faafili threw his arm out. You see this all the time, it's probly the most common time you see head highs, when a guy has been wrong footed and throws out a despairing arm.
If Faafili was a European I find it very hard to believe he would get a red.
That alone is enough to say this was a bad call, bad reffing.
So do Islanders head high more? Impossible to say, since some Islanders do and some don't. It's too broad and sweeping a statement to answer or prove.
Vic December 01, 2009 11:40 pm
Well tommo, you seem to miss the point...and the fact you say 'if an irishman did this..' etc just goes to show you are working on assumptions....you assume im an irishman....so what you really meant to say was 'if a player of the team you support did this he wouldnt have got a red'.....so what if i actually support samoa.....
id even accept some of your previous comments where players have ducked into tackles, even though they're illegal, but there was no 'reaching' or 'reflex' or 'ducking into' or anything on this tackle, it was a straight forward tackle and the player chose to go high....
This was a just red, and if an 'irish player' did this to anyone else i would be suprised if it was a red (as i was with this red) but as many stated and i agree it wouldnt be undeserved!
so my question to you again, what in your eyes warrants a red?
p.s. to everyone saying double standards etc....Do you actually think this tackle needs nothing? or just a talking to? im suprised at a red but it is deserved! if it had been a yellow id expect more to come after the game!!!
id even accept some of your previous comments where players have ducked into tackles, even though they're illegal, but there was no 'reaching' or 'reflex' or 'ducking into' or anything on this tackle, it was a straight forward tackle and the player chose to go high....
This was a just red, and if an 'irish player' did this to anyone else i would be suprised if it was a red (as i was with this red) but as many stated and i agree it wouldnt be undeserved!
so my question to you again, what in your eyes warrants a red?
p.s. to everyone saying double standards etc....Do you actually think this tackle needs nothing? or just a talking to? im suprised at a red but it is deserved! if it had been a yellow id expect more to come after the game!!!
Feargal December 02, 2009 12:17 am
JP Pieterson done that to Tommy Bowe and got nothing.
Anonymous December 02, 2009 12:51 am
has any island nation ever completed a match without getting at least one card or giving up a penalty try?
Gman December 02, 2009 1:08 am
I don't want to rub it in but a couple of weeks ago, the same tackle on Clerc (France) received nothing... Where is the consistency and what message is the IRB sending?
vinniechan December 02, 2009 3:06 am
Castro is a bloody good scrummager, but he is one of the best, not the best. Besides, for the scrum a whole you need more than 1 prob.
I won't call the Samoans dirty. They love throwing their bodies about but they're prone to being careless and reckless.
I won't call the Samoans dirty. They love throwing their bodies about but they're prone to being careless and reckless.
Pato December 02, 2009 5:22 am
About this comment of Teoria and I quote: " one thing that is not mentioned is that italy cant be considered as a country im tired of seeing players all around the world playing in that team.. one year they had like 10 argentine players in the team.. thats a joke! it is obvious that if they buy players of other countries they will play better "
I have to agree with you that I don't like that a National team with that many foreign players, It shoul be regulated I think, And I mean for all the national temas, no more islanders playing for the AB's or South African players for Australia ( I mean it as an example ), etc...
just my opinion...
And on the second comment: "it is obvious that if they buy players of other countries they will play better"
Well, Italy plyas in the 6N since 2000, they have always used foreign players and yet... I think you can count the number of games they won with the fingers of one hand only.
They play te 6N just bescause they have the money and the geographic advantage, nothing else, they never proved to deserve being in the place they have.
And I mean no offence for italians, these are just facts.
Cheers.
I have to agree with you that I don't like that a National team with that many foreign players, It shoul be regulated I think, And I mean for all the national temas, no more islanders playing for the AB's or South African players for Australia ( I mean it as an example ), etc...
just my opinion...
And on the second comment: "it is obvious that if they buy players of other countries they will play better"
Well, Italy plyas in the 6N since 2000, they have always used foreign players and yet... I think you can count the number of games they won with the fingers of one hand only.
They play te 6N just bescause they have the money and the geographic advantage, nothing else, they never proved to deserve being in the place they have.
And I mean no offence for italians, these are just facts.
Cheers.
miguel December 02, 2009 5:44 am
red is too much. simple as that. this autumn season has seen outrageous treatment of samoa at the hands of the refs.
too many incidents too many times the decisions has incorrectly gone against them. paddy o'brien should be getting after his refs about racism and spend less time worrying about his all blacks buddies' scrum.
also upsetting to see to see italy get the penalty try here, only in that it rubs salt into the fact they didnt get it against the all blacks.
granted, the penalty here was far more flagrant, but the fact that dickinson sinnbinned a front rower and repeatedly penalized them makes it all the more perplexing that they didnt get the penalty try.
too many incidents too many times the decisions has incorrectly gone against them. paddy o'brien should be getting after his refs about racism and spend less time worrying about his all blacks buddies' scrum.
also upsetting to see to see italy get the penalty try here, only in that it rubs salt into the fact they didnt get it against the all blacks.
granted, the penalty here was far more flagrant, but the fact that dickinson sinnbinned a front rower and repeatedly penalized them makes it all the more perplexing that they didnt get the penalty try.
Anonymous December 02, 2009 6:48 am
congrats to italy for the win :) Samoa needs to loose some Fuc%$n weight n get more speed... next tour they should form a team of local players from Samoa island, New zealand n fr OZ... get them in early in a month advance before the tour start n get them ready n prep up for the tour... Samoa european players can prep up n play the second game of the tour... sounds like a plan huh? lol
Vic December 02, 2009 7:04 am
Actually, if you are counting 6N teams wins and if that makes them eligible for a place on the tournament then why is scotland there?
what you say is nonsensical. there is always going to be an underdog team..... personally if you look at the early italy to what it is now there has been vast improvement and i think they are well deserving of a place!
They play hard and fast and in all honesty their games are rarely a walk in the park. I think scotland went into an italy game with a lazy attitude and left red faced!
so really, italy in the 6N is a great step! and im glad they are on board!
Also talking about where players are from, people in this day and age travel and move about, soon it will get very hard to be an exact decendant from somewhere....i mean, if your parents are from two different countries which line do you follow? or do you just go for the country you were born in.....
what you say is nonsensical. there is always going to be an underdog team..... personally if you look at the early italy to what it is now there has been vast improvement and i think they are well deserving of a place!
They play hard and fast and in all honesty their games are rarely a walk in the park. I think scotland went into an italy game with a lazy attitude and left red faced!
so really, italy in the 6N is a great step! and im glad they are on board!
Also talking about where players are from, people in this day and age travel and move about, soon it will get very hard to be an exact decendant from somewhere....i mean, if your parents are from two different countries which line do you follow? or do you just go for the country you were born in.....
FrankyH December 02, 2009 8:27 am
I personally think that in this type of situation, the player is completely in the wrong and must deal with what's coming to him.
If the ref feels that it warrants a red, based on previous aggro or warnings to the team perhaps, or just based on the fact that he feels it's worthy of one, then so be it.
Everyone moaned when JP Pietersen wasn't even penalised for his flailing arm against Ireland, and now everyone moans at the red (although this tackle was less about reflex, more about laziness).
Somewhere inbetween would be good, yeah, but surely we'd rather have refs being too strict than too lenient?
Ignoring it lets players know they can get away with it. Red sends a clear message. Theres no reason in the world to go into that tackle so high. It's poor technique.
The same with JP on Tommy Bowe btw.. as much as it was reflex and he just stuck an arm out, I've seen him do that a few times before. Bad technique, or whatever the word is.
Some players will do it throughout their careers, others simply won't ever do it. Islanders, seem to do it more often than non-islanders, and I dont think it's unfair, or racist to say that. They're taught to attack the chest area, which sometimes goes wrong. Other countries are taught to tackle at or below the hips. Therein lies the difference, imho.
If the ref feels that it warrants a red, based on previous aggro or warnings to the team perhaps, or just based on the fact that he feels it's worthy of one, then so be it.
Everyone moaned when JP Pietersen wasn't even penalised for his flailing arm against Ireland, and now everyone moans at the red (although this tackle was less about reflex, more about laziness).
Somewhere inbetween would be good, yeah, but surely we'd rather have refs being too strict than too lenient?
Ignoring it lets players know they can get away with it. Red sends a clear message. Theres no reason in the world to go into that tackle so high. It's poor technique.
The same with JP on Tommy Bowe btw.. as much as it was reflex and he just stuck an arm out, I've seen him do that a few times before. Bad technique, or whatever the word is.
Some players will do it throughout their careers, others simply won't ever do it. Islanders, seem to do it more often than non-islanders, and I dont think it's unfair, or racist to say that. They're taught to attack the chest area, which sometimes goes wrong. Other countries are taught to tackle at or below the hips. Therein lies the difference, imho.
Billy December 02, 2009 8:39 am
Erm about these "Foreign" players you are aware that they are of Italian descent or have an Italian citizenship, therefore making them not foreign at all...
Arent you guys being you know... racist? really what you are getting at is every team should be pure, so no whites in SA, NZ or PI teams, no blacks in teams like England, France, Aus, Wales, Scotland etc.
Yeah what you say makes perfect sense guys.
Arent you guys being you know... racist? really what you are getting at is every team should be pure, so no whites in SA, NZ or PI teams, no blacks in teams like England, France, Aus, Wales, Scotland etc.
Yeah what you say makes perfect sense guys.
Anonymous December 02, 2009 12:00 pm
Italy have potential for 6 nations next year and if the Scots can start getting tries then they'll be more competitive. Reckon it will be a tight 6 nations. France will top it if they can maintain some form.
Anonymous December 02, 2009 12:58 pm
The BS wow.
Come to aus or NZ or shut up.
There are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Islanders living here. You gonna tell them they're not from here, they can't play for their country?
What, you think Aus or NZ are all white, blonde eyed people?
You idiots.
You're talking about nations of immigrants, everyone is from somewhere else.
We don't care. You shouldn't either.
Come to aus or NZ or shut up.
There are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of Islanders living here. You gonna tell them they're not from here, they can't play for their country?
What, you think Aus or NZ are all white, blonde eyed people?
You idiots.
You're talking about nations of immigrants, everyone is from somewhere else.
We don't care. You shouldn't either.
Anonymous December 02, 2009 2:24 pm
hahaha what are u all on about???? do any of you actually play rugby???? You can't clothes line people simple! the reason its a very quick way to break someones neck! Hense very dangerous = Red card.....
And this BS about everyone against islanders, and everyone being rascist against them...
I watch alot of rugby and they are the biggest offenders for high tackles and shoulder charges. In Rugby neither are legal!
Geez maybe if at a young age couches teach them how to tackle and play the game properly they'll stop it.
And this BS about everyone against islanders, and everyone being rascist against them...
I watch alot of rugby and they are the biggest offenders for high tackles and shoulder charges. In Rugby neither are legal!
Geez maybe if at a young age couches teach them how to tackle and play the game properly they'll stop it.
Maximus December 02, 2009 5:42 pm
To me it's a yellow card and certainly a ban after the match. When he's about to tackle i don't think he's saying to himself "...and i'm chopping his heaaaadNOW!"
I mean, the pace is fast, the move has to be done within a second and you can see he is far from McLean. It's an awful and dangerous tackle but it's kinda part of this action.
I'd rather give a red to eye gougeing which is dangerous in a wicked way and has nothing to do with rugby. The player actually says to himself "... here's my boy, you are sooo going to regret this hit on me earlier... I'm a beast and a real man and you're losing your eyeeeeeeeeNOW!" How sick is that?
It's a really dangerous move, as was the one on Clerc during the France-Samoa match, and deserves far more than a penalty but I think a red is too much and ruined a part of the match.
PS: hair-pulling is sooo ridiculous it doesn't deserve a red of course, shame is sufficient as a punishment ("watch out! he's the hair-pulling beast!")
I mean, the pace is fast, the move has to be done within a second and you can see he is far from McLean. It's an awful and dangerous tackle but it's kinda part of this action.
I'd rather give a red to eye gougeing which is dangerous in a wicked way and has nothing to do with rugby. The player actually says to himself "... here's my boy, you are sooo going to regret this hit on me earlier... I'm a beast and a real man and you're losing your eyeeeeeeeeNOW!" How sick is that?
It's a really dangerous move, as was the one on Clerc during the France-Samoa match, and deserves far more than a penalty but I think a red is too much and ruined a part of the match.
PS: hair-pulling is sooo ridiculous it doesn't deserve a red of course, shame is sufficient as a punishment ("watch out! he's the hair-pulling beast!")
Pato December 02, 2009 5:52 pm
Ok guys, take it easy, I don't mean to be racist at all, don't be oversensitive like one of the guys above said.
I wasn't talking about the islanders who lived in NZ all their lives, or the argentinians who live in Italy sdince kids.
I mean for example argies that went to play to europe at their 20's, their formation as players took place in Argentina...
I never said anything close to racist, argies players are all white...
And Vic, I agree that Italy improved a lot and it's no peace of cake for any team in the world, but It's been 10 6N that they already played and with all the experience and the money they invested they should have started to win some games, don't you think ?
You say Scotland didn't do great last years so why would they deserve to be there ? the answer is simple, the tradition of the tournament, the've always been there, they won tournamentes and lots of games, they used to have great players, they earned the privilege to be there, maybe Italy will someday.
It's just my opinion, you are all entitled to yours, don't take things personal.
Cheers.
I wasn't talking about the islanders who lived in NZ all their lives, or the argentinians who live in Italy sdince kids.
I mean for example argies that went to play to europe at their 20's, their formation as players took place in Argentina...
I never said anything close to racist, argies players are all white...
And Vic, I agree that Italy improved a lot and it's no peace of cake for any team in the world, but It's been 10 6N that they already played and with all the experience and the money they invested they should have started to win some games, don't you think ?
You say Scotland didn't do great last years so why would they deserve to be there ? the answer is simple, the tradition of the tournament, the've always been there, they won tournamentes and lots of games, they used to have great players, they earned the privilege to be there, maybe Italy will someday.
It's just my opinion, you are all entitled to yours, don't take things personal.
Cheers.
The Inside Shoulder December 02, 2009 7:19 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/leeds/8391534.stm
3 Weeks! - ridiculous.
JP Pieterson makes one high tackle a game.
3 Weeks! - ridiculous.
JP Pieterson makes one high tackle a game.
islandstylin' December 02, 2009 8:42 pm
Anon said
"congrats to italy for the win :) Samoa needs to loose some Fuc%$n weight n get more speed... next tour they should form a team of local players from Samoa island, New zealand n fr OZ... get them in early in a month advance before the tour start n get them ready n prep up for the tour... Samoa european players can prep up n play the second game of the tour... sounds like a plan huh? lol"
I think the clubs in europe that employ our brothers are selfish in a way. I say this because of the training that they go through in eroupe.. These guys are HUGE!!! They maybe be effective in professional rugby but international games take it into a whole different level.. But hey as long as the clubs get what they want from the Samoans they could careless how they do for Samoa
Another example would be to take Samoans that play for NZ or OZ.. None even comes close to the size of Henry, Alesana, Census, Justin Va'a, and so on.. The Samoans in NZ understand the importance of mobility.. How many Samoans from the All Blacks weigh over 117kg besides the props? Zero!!!
These european-based Samoans are relatively fast in a straight line. But rugby is played in a straight line. They need to stop hitting the gym and focus more on international style of play rather than local..
One issue i have with island-based players is the lack of overall experience. They may have the passion but they do lack experience. So it's a catch-22 with player selection!!
"congrats to italy for the win :) Samoa needs to loose some Fuc%$n weight n get more speed... next tour they should form a team of local players from Samoa island, New zealand n fr OZ... get them in early in a month advance before the tour start n get them ready n prep up for the tour... Samoa european players can prep up n play the second game of the tour... sounds like a plan huh? lol"
I think the clubs in europe that employ our brothers are selfish in a way. I say this because of the training that they go through in eroupe.. These guys are HUGE!!! They maybe be effective in professional rugby but international games take it into a whole different level.. But hey as long as the clubs get what they want from the Samoans they could careless how they do for Samoa
Another example would be to take Samoans that play for NZ or OZ.. None even comes close to the size of Henry, Alesana, Census, Justin Va'a, and so on.. The Samoans in NZ understand the importance of mobility.. How many Samoans from the All Blacks weigh over 117kg besides the props? Zero!!!
These european-based Samoans are relatively fast in a straight line. But rugby is played in a straight line. They need to stop hitting the gym and focus more on international style of play rather than local..
One issue i have with island-based players is the lack of overall experience. They may have the passion but they do lack experience. So it's a catch-22 with player selection!!
Anonymous December 02, 2009 8:44 pm
"But rugby is played in a straight line."
meant to say "..isn't only played in a straight line."
meant to say "..isn't only played in a straight line."
No.7 December 02, 2009 11:02 pm
ah know....donkey punch where is your comment?!? :(
I noticed someone is mentioning that maybe at a young age couches teach these guys to tackle.... (care to make anything of this?)
I noticed someone is mentioning that maybe at a young age couches teach these guys to tackle.... (care to make anything of this?)
miguel December 03, 2009 5:25 am
as far as the hair pulling goes, its just foolish, but the italian players should all get haircuts.
Anonymous December 03, 2009 12:17 pm
Answering to TEORIA.
Everybody that has italian roots has the right to be italian citizen for our law code.
+ the majority of our players are born in italy.
++ we don't act as football supporters, and this shows that you don't know anything about italy and its rugby scene.
Everybody that has italian roots has the right to be italian citizen for our law code.
+ the majority of our players are born in italy.
++ we don't act as football supporters, and this shows that you don't know anything about italy and its rugby scene.
:) December 04, 2009 6:59 am
miguel why would you say 'they should get their haircuts'?
Who gets to say how anyones hair should be?!
Yeh, imagine nonu or umaga with a f*cking jarhead haircut!...or a standard lego head haircut.....i mean honestly you sound like a real knob!
Who gets to say how anyones hair should be?!
Yeh, imagine nonu or umaga with a f*cking jarhead haircut!...or a standard lego head haircut.....i mean honestly you sound like a real knob!
:) December 04, 2009 6:59 am
....... why are my posts so angry when i have a :) name.....
I have actually only just realise this..... hmmm
I have actually only just realise this..... hmmm
Nico December 04, 2009 9:06 am
I guess the issue is not whether it's a red, yellow, penalty or nothing. The issue is consistency throughout the games. I personally see nothing wrong with a red for dangerous play potentially leading to serious injury. And that's what it was. But as mentioned several times above, other refs think it differently (e.g., Ireland vs. SA or France vs. Samoa). Any obvious pattern between north and south for the refs? Seems a bit random to me.
Anonymous December 04, 2009 9:20 am
Northern refs are much quicker to go for the cards imo.
Too quick.
Reason being if this is a red card, every high tackle should be ared card. Which would be absolute BS and overkill.
High tackles will always happen, they are almost always accidental.
Penalties are usually enough, maybe a yellow if it's particularly bad.
Reds should be saved for the worst kind of play, like gouging or deliberate, dangerous cheap shots.
Not accidental head highs, ever.
Too quick.
Reason being if this is a red card, every high tackle should be ared card. Which would be absolute BS and overkill.
High tackles will always happen, they are almost always accidental.
Penalties are usually enough, maybe a yellow if it's particularly bad.
Reds should be saved for the worst kind of play, like gouging or deliberate, dangerous cheap shots.
Not accidental head highs, ever.
Nico December 05, 2009 4:11 am
Hear your point, anon, But if head-high tackles were strictly incidental, Pacific Nations players wouldn't be leading practitioners, would they? It's also related to tackling techniques you get taught, and which can lead to more incidents. If there is consistent harsh referring across the board, I reckon it may help decreasing the numbers of incidents.
Anonymous December 05, 2009 4:42 am
The idea that as a whole Islanders tackle high more is circumstantial.
Prove it or stop saying it.
Prove it or stop saying it.
zacaria December 05, 2009 6:34 am
why were the touch judges completely absent in this game, there were so many penalties that stopped the opposite temas momentum and they got away with it.
zacaria December 05, 2009 6:35 am
i would understand the red card, if someone had already been warned.
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