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Saturday, December 12, 2009

Ronan O'Gara kicks Munster to victory over Perpignan

Ronan O'Gara kicks Munster to victory over Perpignan

Munster showed their experience by coming from behind to get the win against a Perpignan side that scored three tries against them in the Pool 1 Heineken Cup match at Thomond Park last night.

Under pressure after being dropped from the Ireland side that played the Springboks, Ronan OGara came back well as he kicked Munster to a thrilling 24-23 victory over the Top 14 champions.

It was the visitors who scored three tries though, two of which were outstanding. The first of the three was scored by Yoann Vivalda after a sloppy lineout, but then Nicolas Durand outdid Doug Howlett one-on-one with a superb step before touching down in the corner.

OGara and Jerome Porical exchanged penalties in the second half, before the 70th minute produced an excellent solo effort from former Cheetahs fullback, South African Philip Burger.

The former Sevens player, who showed such promise in the Currie Cup in 2007, collected the ball just outside his 22 before racing downfield to outstrip the Munster defenders and score a classic try that took the visitors into the lead with ten minutes left.

All the hard work was undone though as flanker Bertrand Guiry gave a penalty away right in front of the posts with a high tackle. OGara duly kicked the match-winning points, and the home side now look on track to quality for the quarter finals for the twelfth successive year.

Munster coach Tony McGahan praised Man of the Match OGaras performance.

"I thought Ronan O'Gara was outstanding. He has been outstanding ever since he came back into the camp after the autumn internationals," said McGahan.

"He is a tremendously strong-willed person. He did not lose his belief and we certainly did not lose our belief in him. It was an outstanding performance from an outstanding player. Everyone is delighted for him," he added.


Time: 05:04

Posted at 1:45 pm | 79 comments

Viewing 79 comments

Dave December 12, 2009 1:43 pm

Three tries, and they lose? :(

Awesome by Durand and Burger. And that hit by Howlett was great too. Similar to the one who put in on Doherty (I think)

Looked like a great match. Cheers

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Conor December 12, 2009 1:58 pm

Perpignan where unfortunate their discipline let them down but haven said that Munster showed great strength and pinned them in their half for a lot of the match! A lot of uncharacteristic errors from Munster Howlett missing tackles, POC knocking on, etc etc. You sorta wonder what is Perpignan had an out half with O'Gara's kicking abilities?

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 2:04 pm

agree with Dave, its not good for the game at all when a side who score 3 tries are undone by kicks, takes the running element out of the game. time to drop the value of kicks i reckon.

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No.7 December 12, 2009 2:43 pm

I disagree with the anonymous and dave....well not so much dave as he hasnt particularly stated it but the anonymous has.

I personally am fed up of hearing, 'the team that scored no tries beat the team that scored 2/3/4/5 etc!'

Rugby is not all about scoring tries....the whole point in having a referee there is to control the game, if things get out of hand he steps in, and if one teams discipline ends up ruining the game for the other team, the other team has chance to make them pay for it...(finding it hard to word it...)

Rugby is about the discipline involved....i mean, if someone on a night out or anywhere for that matter, hit you with a tackle, you'd probably end up scrapping.....now you dont end up doing that on the pitch on saturday because someone tackled you....its discipline! we are playing a contact sport and its not a sport where 'if you are big you can play' see epi taione, he loses his cool a does something ridiculous....

So personally as much as i like flicking on RD and seeing some decent punchup going on, the team that has the best discipline is the team that normally keeps it together and normally ends up winning, and if that is through, penalties or drop goals over tries then i have no problem with that.

Just out of interest what if a team A beat team B, but team B scored 3 tries, and Team A scored 8 drop goals?! who in your eyes deserves it then?

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 2:53 pm

Munster very lucky there. THey won't win the HC anyway

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 3:12 pm

Perpingon should have won, they were the better team.
It's a shame when a team scores three tries to none and loses.

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sebastian December 12, 2009 3:21 pm

quite unlucky for usap, but if u defend well and clean u dont concede penalties, its that easy, second best part after the perpignan tries were the girls

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 3:31 pm

Le Munster est mauvais, ils ne produisent pas de jeu. Perpignan mrite de gagner mais ils ont fait trop de fautes. Malheureusement... le dfaut franais!

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luxi December 12, 2009 3:44 pm

d'accord avec notre ami anonyme francais de 4:31pm c'est l'indiscipline latine qui coute le match a l'usap alors quils ont produit tout le jeu :'(

for our english speaking friends i said i agreed with the frenchy, saying that munster played bad on the day, perpignan shuda won cos they ran the ball but the latin indiscipline cost them the game

shame for usap because after this defeat and the one in treviso, perpignan is probably gonna have to wait another year before organizing a Heineken Cup quarter final in Barcelona

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 4:19 pm

munster played the better match. they were consistant throughout, and deserved the win. Perpignan showed flashes of brilliance, but that is not enough in an 80 minute game.

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 4:49 pm

Luxi what game were you watchin?? USAP scored 2 good but opertunistic tries,the third by burger was good but he lost all respect by actin like a pratt after he scored seriously what a moron,he thought he just won the game,they gave away a ridiculous amount of penalties because they were under serious pressure,people can say munster got away with the win but had USAP not intentionally given most of those penalties they would have leaked tries.Think Usap will beat munster at home,but they need to make sure munster dont get a bp

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 4:51 pm

I'm a Munster fan all the way, but it's a shame Perpignan had to lose, seeing as they played some good running rugby...

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Bamberio December 12, 2009 5:14 pm

Cheers Ronan - you ruined my first prediction of the HC 3rd round with your kicking display!

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MCB December 12, 2009 5:16 pm

Hardly say Munster's qualification is guaranteed at this stage, still very tight pool. USAP will beat them at home. Great to see O'Gara playing well again, controlled the game brilliantly. Sloppy defence let them down for Perpignan tries. Mafi was poor, maybe de Villiers and Earls should be given a chance in centre

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Ronan December 12, 2009 5:55 pm

In reponse to the people speaking of Perpiginan playing running rugby and deserving to win - well I don't know wha match you were watching. They had very little chance to run with the ball because they were pinned into their own half and 2 of the three tries were oppertunities took that were completely against the flow of the game.

Munster scored 7 penalties. Maybe they would have scored 3 tries instead if Perpiginan weren't constantly offside or infringing in the ruck. Instead they got their penalties, converted them and won.

Anyone watching would have noticed munster as the team trying to run the ball from the start - but not mentioned because Mafi is rubbish and butchers everything.

Fantastic defense from Perpiginan though. Looking forward to the match next week.

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 6:13 pm

shouldn't have given away so many kickable penalties...

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kevdetoulouse December 12, 2009 6:22 pm

I agree with most of you guys.
Didn't see the match but just saw Cardiff-Toulouse's one. Most boring game EVER!!!
f***ing kicks all the time!
I went from fototball to rugby because I was disappointed of the game. Might as well move to another sport if teams keep on playing like Munster or Cardiff today.

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Dalma December 12, 2009 7:51 pm

As usual : Perpignan made faults, but Munster players spent most of the game in bad side of the rucks without any reaction from the ref.

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Richie December 12, 2009 7:55 pm

I still don't get this. It's not like Munster shoved the ball up their jumper for 80 minutes. They ran the ball, but most of the time they did, there was no space because Perpignan were offside all day.

2 of USAP's tries were 'Freak tries.' They had no sustained period of pressure or build up play to get them.

Penalties are there for a reason, they dissuade the defending team from acting cynically and preventing open play. Perpignan obviously didn't get this part and were punished accordingly.

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FrankyH December 12, 2009 8:03 pm

Yeah, fair play to ROG coming back so strong like that. I think the general sentiment is that it's unfortunate to score nice tries (and the other side dont score any) and not be rewarded with the win. It seems in vain.

But to win rugby matches, you simply need to get more points than the other team. I think we've seen enough times this year that as long as you're doing that, you can be, and beat, the best.

Awesome tries though, those two individual efforts. Great to see Burger (who's always been a bit of a showman) scoring a great try. I see nothing wrong with his celebration too. It's showmanship, and the game needs characters. I've seen enough interviews with Daniel Carter to know that.

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geordie December 12, 2009 8:37 pm

i think munster are a great team but dispointing to see any team kick that much it gets boring but looked like a good match just gutted nowadays how much teams kick gets tedias

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Mark December 12, 2009 9:10 pm

I'm a bit unsure about the second try..and i'm also surprised nobody seems to have mentioned this at all!

as far as i know only the player at the back of a ruck is allowed play the ball.i looked through the rule book and it doesn't say this directly,but it does say the offside line is at the hindmost foot,so surely the perpignan hooker isn't allowed pick the ball seeing as he's at the side/front of the ruck.munster should've defended it better,but that's beside the point.it shouldn't have been a try

Munster would really want to sort themselves out and come up with some creativity in the backs.Still i think they deserved to win cos they played the territory well.perpignan didn't have much to offer other than three freak tries

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John F December 12, 2009 9:11 pm

This wasn't really a match for throwing the ball around, both sides showed superb agressive defence.

The criticism against Munster should not so much be the fact that they didn't score a try, it happens, but the fact that ROG kicked 90% + of the ball and when he did pass it along the backline (4 or 5 times in the whole game), they had no creativity at all. Perpignan at least gave it a go a minimum with the ball in hand! Some fans go over the top on the criticism but the Heineken Cup is normally an exciting spectacle, non Munster fans will always find it difficult to enjoy Munster's style of play. Let's face it, a lot of the H Cup winners have won the cup by playing expansive rugby, Munster could be the antithesis of this.

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BeerMe December 12, 2009 9:27 pm

I'm a huge Munster fan and root for Ireland any day of the week, so don't think this is out of spite...but it's kind of disappointing that Ireland defeated SA by kicking and here Munster pull a win over USAP in the same way - maybe it's just the gaelic way (too much gaelic football, maybe!) ;)

I didn't actually get a chance to see this match yet, so I won't comment on it, but the Ireland-SA match was far from boring. So, despite Sexton kicking all the points, it was a heated game...which is fine. While I doubt Perpignan was offside SO MUCH that it kept Munster from making ANY runs, I'm sure it could have surely prevented some try-scoring opportunities...

Ireland and Munster are both blessed with good back lines - Bowe, O'Driscoll, Fitzgerald, Earls (Ire) and Howlett, JdV, Earls, Warwick (shame Munster had to let Tipoki go) - so it'd be disappointing to see them not get used.

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Liffey December 12, 2009 9:49 pm

To above - its probably because of munsters pack - if you have a strong pack you use it.

But in that game Munster did play good running rugby which was actually better than Perpignans.

None of Perpignans trys were from fluent running rugby - but rather from mistakes in the Munster team - up and under misses - faulty line outs.

Munster were close on at least 2 occaisions to scoring a try in that game - but Perpignan kept giving away penalties to prevent it. That sums up the whole game.

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 10:01 pm

A lot of handling errors from Perpignan, that really ruined their match

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Daniel December 12, 2009 10:06 pm

Indeed Munster did try their best to give it a go with ball in hand but they lacked cutting edge even if they were still playing now, its doubtful they would have scored a try.

It says a lot about the state of rugby these days when a player catches an up and under, goes 70 metres round 3 players and this is dismissed as a "freak" try, absolute garbage.

Northampton Saints will fancy getting a result in Limerick after that, and I can't see Munster getting anything in San Sebastin. But this is the Heineken Cup...

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Luke December 12, 2009 10:39 pm

Am I the only one that thinks the initial break for the second Perpigan try is clearly illegal, being the player (hooker i think) is bound in the ruck (and therefore cannot play the ball) and comes out the front with it? look at the 1 min mark to see what i mean.

Great move to step Dougie and finish though.

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Anonymous December 12, 2009 11:24 pm

What is is about Irish teams winning despite not scoring a single try while the losing team does. First it was the boks game and now this. This is why super 14 rugby is the best

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BeerMe December 12, 2009 11:41 pm

Yeah, but c'mon Liffey - that's what good running is:

"up and under misses" and missed tackles - that Burger try for USAP was a beauty to watch - he outpaced all of Munster's defenders.

All I'm saying is give credit where credit is due...

But like I said, I didn't see the match yet, so you may be right and Munster may have very well out-performed USAP in their running game...making breaks and the like, just being unable to finish it with a try.

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Huh!! the 3rd December 12, 2009 11:44 pm

Have to agree about Mafi. Last season he was one of the best centres in Europe, but he seems to have gone backwards this season. Tipoki's influence on him can't be over stated, but Tipoki only played 1 HCup game last season. De Villiers and Earls next week would be a better compo.

Munster are conceding a rash of soft tries, both Treviso's tries, Gerathy's and a couple of soft ones here. Burgers was good, and to call it a freak is misguided. We're all harpin' on about bland boring rugby and here was a player backing himself from his own 22m line.

Hurley played well but I'd rather Dowling. Obviously not a match winning winger, but someone who doesn't stop working and hassling defenders.

Regarding Hurley's disallowed try. I thought once the attacking player has the ball and the defender rips it out of his arms, and it spills it can't be called forward as its counted as the attacking player spilling the ball backwards. I'm sure I've seen similar instances where the player (Hurley here) is allowed collect and play on. Hurley did give himself up though when he checked after picking it up.

I know Saints beat Treviso 30-13 or something, but don't know the scoring breakdown, it looks like they didn't get the try bonus, 3 converted tries and 3 pens, is this correct? Or 4 tries, 2 cons and 2 pens?

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Jimmy December 13, 2009 12:41 am

I think this is typical of European rugby.
Teams are rewarded for not scoring tries, just playing boring, percentage rugby and feeding off the other teams infringements.
Problem is that at international level the 3-nations teams are too disciplined, and won't give away as many penalties. And because try-scoring and winning are two different things in Europe, when you can't win off penalties European teams don't know how to score tries.

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 12:51 am

Huh the 3rd, if a player loses the ball in a tackle (it's ripped out by the defender), either one or the toher of them will be deemed to have knocked it on, depending on which direction it goes.
So if the ball went towards the dead ball line (away from Munster's half) then he knocked it on and the defender knocked it back, and vice versa.

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Bill December 13, 2009 1:21 am

So, let me see if I understand what so many here are saying: The team that spent the whole match giving away penalties should win only because they scored some tries? This could easily have been theirs, all the had to do was not break any laws...

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asm December 13, 2009 3:16 am

Bullshit, jimmy. Stop saying things like that without reasons, it's stupid.
This match is a shame. Once more munster give us the most boring rugby of the planet, like they did in 2007/2008. Even if Perpignan has not played the most beautiful rugby, they deserved the win. But I think the ref don't decide like that. He gave some penalties front of the posts for everything he wants to see, and don't give perpignan these penalties when they were in the munster's half, while o'connell and his friends were doing what they want in the rucks.
For sure it's a french incomprehension of the rules... bullshit. And i don't talk about ulster/stade franais where it was worse... but it's a normal thing now because british/irish clubs are arbitrate by britons. btw, cardiff-toulouse ref was pretty good.

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No.7 December 13, 2009 4:19 am

Bill just summed it up really!

and jimmy if you think tri nation teams have good discipline, then i urge you to watch this years autumn internationals where you will see ireland beat SA through kicks....and Scotland beat Aus through kicks.... now some were drop goals but the others were penalties....where is the discipline there....

all you guys ever say is, the team that lost scored tries. i said it before there is a huge amount more to the game than tries!!!

p.s ignore the prick that likes to copy my name. i wont repost here for another 9 hours or so....

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 4:42 am

1. Refs are inconsistent. Winning through penalties can often just be a result of a whistle happy ref.
2. The game is supposed to be a running game. Tries should be rewarded.
3. When you play rugby this way and come up against more disciplined teams you will not win. SH teams place an emphasis on scoring tries, and it is why they usually defeat NH opposition. When the NH teams win it is because they put in a big defensive effort and get some good calls from the ref. It usually helps for the SH teams to butcher a few chances. But this happens infrequently. Usually the better skills and more positive attitude of the SH teams wins the game.

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msa December 13, 2009 5:48 am

I remember a while back reading that the French typically have some sort of anglo-phobia (not that I blame them...seriously, who drives on the left-hand side of the road? you're liable to kill someone that way! ;) ) - and I think asm is just one of those cases. Certainly, not all French are that way, but I think a lot of the time, there's a sneaky suspicion in the minds of the French that if a referee is from English-speaking, he's out to get a French team - whether it's sub-conscious or not.

This isn't football, boxing, or basketball, buddy. I don't think that referees are in the business of fixing rugby matches to their liking. Some are more pedantic than others, so they may end up pinging one team much more than the other due to how the rules are enforced domestically for those teams (and subsequently how good their discipline is).

Sometimes, especially for French/Italian/Argentinian teams, it may seem unfair due to the language barrier, but for Christ's sake, Wayne Barnes speaks French to the French side...I find it very hard to believe he has a vendetta against USAP.

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 5:57 am

I wonder if the little bit of national-side competition from Sexton has spurred O'Gara into trying his hardest to stay at the forefront of Kidney's mind?

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 7:15 am

What's all this nonsense about munster killing the game by kicking their way through games?!!! The last 2 world cups were won by kicking for points rather than running in tries.

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asm December 13, 2009 9:40 am

msa, it happens every year in the Hcup that french clubs are disadvantaged by refs. It's not the majority of the games, but it happens. it's funny to see munster winning this game by one point of difference. I have the feeling that if perpignan have score 5 points more, munster would score 2 other penalties...
Maybe i'm wrong but i'm not the only one who don't understand the arbitration of some matches. The problem is not the language, all french clubs have english-speaking players, and even some french players can speak english (waoh) !!
And i'm absolutely not anglo-phobic (i love haskell, wilko, noon, goode, thompson, may, philips and co!...), but i just don't understand why the same faults don't make the same decisions and why SH refs can't arbitrate some Hcup games, so there will be no doubt.
i hope the best will win, like last year.

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jay December 13, 2009 12:51 pm

I think there's a few debates around the game :
- hard to see a team winning by only kicks. And yet if the rules allow that why would you it any other way ?
Penalties and drops for 2 points would change the whole concept of the game :P
- The french consciousness : I do think we're not in the 80's anymore where the culture language barrier was usually not in our advantage. Even though the mentality has changed, I think French tend to think that just because we're french... blah blah.. penalties penalties.
- The big difference and the ASM in the H cup has been a good example for that is to fully understand the ref's appreciation and I'm sorry to say but Barnes was inconsistent in this game.

I don't like the USAP and yet seeing how they performed, I thought Barnes didn't help them...at all. Yes it's the same guy who somehwat helped us during the RWC.

In any case, I think the biggest difference between french teams and uk teams is understanding how the ref works... and it seems to me that on this day Barnes didn't show good consistency in his choices...

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blindside December 13, 2009 1:02 pm

A few points id like to make here.

1. To Jimmy
I agree with you that there is a NH game plan to kick penalties and tries come if the opportunity arises but as a bonus. I dont think you can set this as a standard. Personally I love to watch France and the Top 14 as it has some great tries and real flair

2. I seen a comment on "but the World Cup was won on kicking". It usually is mate as this is risk free but boring rugby.

3. The Super 14 is by a long way the more entertaining club rugby tournament, played with ability and passion and without the aura of money that surrounds europe. The Heineken cup will evntually ruin rugby as a game just like football. I thought that Leinster tryin to sign Matt Giteau for a couple of group games mid season was a complete farce.

4. Finally, imagine a game where kicking a "penalty" between the post was worth nothing? Penalty could be used to kick for territory while retaining position. Personally I think as an experiment it would be worth a look

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Gavin December 13, 2009 1:16 pm

One of the reasons Munster scored no tries is because Perpignan kept illegally slowing down ball and standing offside - hence the all the penalties. If they did not play illegally, Munster would have killed them with the faster ball and extra space. So it is not a fluke or 'bad for the game' if a team that uses illegal tactics to stop the other team scoring tries loses becasue of penalties - it is good for the game.

Maybe next time they will not cheat so much and their opposition will be able to punish them the more exciting way with tries instead of the referee having to punish them with penalties.

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 1:16 pm

that is retarded... then penalties would be given away all day with constant killing of the ball.. making for crap slow ball rugby.. please people who didnt watch the game stop posting comments saying that munster should have lost.. u clearly have no clue

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John F December 13, 2009 1:19 pm

Lol, very funny any Munster fans claiming that they tried to play running rugby on Friday night. Just LOL!

To asm, I think the french teams sometimes need to learn to adapt their play to the different refereeing from other countries' refs.

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 1:51 pm

u cant play running rugby againt a rush defence that is offside..

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Flooz December 13, 2009 3:27 pm

Funny to read some "munster fans" comments
defending, arguing, inventing reasons why their team was better whaterver the way they played... blabla

It was a great game of rugby where u just could see the diffrence between of rugby:

counter-attack for french team
VS
rolling mauls and waiting for penalties for Munster

I love the red army supporters but i think that they should assume the fact their team doesn't play a great rugby, end of the story.
It soesn't mean that the way they play doesn't work, They play with strange IRB rules and u have to give credit for that. French can't assume that...

Ugly can win whether u like it or not

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 3:51 pm

It's hard to understand a team scoring three tries to nil and still losing off the back of the ref.
It's crap rugby.

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No.7 December 13, 2009 4:08 pm

you guys are so ridiculous.....

i dont really see how you are so blind as to not get it, i have stated it numerous times and so have others....

im not a munster fan or a perp fan....tbh i only saw this game cos it was on. so i have no attachments to either side..

you guys all sound like fair weather supporters.....its clear most of you arent, but there is a big section which i could be unsure about....you know the type of people that suddenly support their country when the WC comes along, then when thats over they mope and moan and are bitter until they get bored or something..(basically have no clue about the game!)

I mean if we say for instance that every step team A makes team B gives away a penalty so team A actually cant run anywhere but team B still scores tries, is that fair if team B wins?! only because team A didnt cheat?! ofcourse not....

that is the whole point, there is a hell of a lot more to just scoring a try, you are putting players in situations that anywhere but a rugby pitch (and even then) would result in a punch up....and these players are under their own want and discipline to keep their cool, now this maybe by not swinging at someone, or not cheating.....

and really how many games have you played when there is 30 mins to go, the other team is beating you by 7 points and you have a penalty in their 22.....90% of the time you will take the points, so you are THAT bit closer.....and if you are winning by 7 points and you have a penalty in their 22 you will 99% of the time take the points, so you are THAT bit further!

its common sense guys....and id be far happier to see that than every penalty they kick to touch, take the lineout, something goes wrong, they lose the ball, its kicked into another realm by the opposition, and you have to start all over again!!! (NOW THAT TO ME IS F*CKING FRUSTRATING!!!)

....i probably dont make sense to most of you one eyed supporters!

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Kearney for tests December 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Perpignan scored 2 crazy tries that happen once in a blue moon, and another type that happens very rarely too. They were absolutley dominated in terms of possession and territory, Munster were better really from 1-15, but since Perpignan scored tries they deserved the win. That is complete bullshit. People who are saying that, tell your teams to stop fucking cheating then!

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dezzy December 13, 2009 5:10 pm

l'usap aurait du gagner !!!

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dezzy December 13, 2009 5:30 pm

usap should win

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willtopps December 13, 2009 5:44 pm

BORING BORING MUNSTER.

EXECUTE RONAN O'GARA.

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Flooz December 13, 2009 6:09 pm

To No 7

u don't need to write hundred of lines to defend ur point of view ;-) u talk about discipline, i talk about the fact that french teams are more penalised than bristish/irish one because they always have to adapt their game to a british way to referee.

and the truth is that u have teams in Europe which win ERC thanks to a referee-strategy (Munster, Leicester or Cardiff Blues) and other ones thanks to their game philosophy (Leinster, Toulouse are the best example)

Argue other hundred lines if u want but that's just facts...

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Juggernauter December 13, 2009 6:25 pm

It's time to change the points system: six for a try, one for a conversion, three for a drop-goal and two for a penalty. Rugby is about scoring tries. So, the team that scores more tries wins. It's that simple. This stupid penalty-penalty thing is killing our sport.

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Anonymous December 13, 2009 6:27 pm

Flooz,

Having a 'referee strategy' means having players and a captain smart enough to change the way they play based on how the referee wants them to play. If a team is too dumb to change the way they play, then they have a big problem and they are not a great team, even if the rest of their game is good.

You need intelligence AND skill to succeed. Sometimes only skill is enough, but usually you need to be smart too. And Munster for a long time have been very, very smart.

Oh, to anybody who is expressing an opinion about Munster being boring based only on watching these 'highlights' without watching the game: Munster played 75% of the running rugby, but could not score tries because of fouls in rucks and offsides and high tackles by the Perpignan backs. This is why they were awarded penalties.

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Mike December 13, 2009 6:29 pm

Juggernauter,

I can understand your thinking but it is a bad idea. If they do that, teams will cheat even more than Perpignan did yesterday to prevent quick ball and there will be LESS tries. However, if a try was worth 3 points, guys would not risk cheating to slow down the ball etc, so we would see more tries.

It's counter-intuitive, but it is true if you think about it.

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Kearney for tests December 13, 2009 7:14 pm

Mike I think you're wrong there. If a try was only worth three points, yes the opposition would be less likely to foul to prevent a try, but the attacking team wouldn't bother going for a try if they could just drop-goal it instead. I think maybe six points for a try and 1 for the conversion would be best, as it would reduce the dependency teams have on having a good goal-kicker.

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No.7 December 13, 2009 7:26 pm

hmmm i see the way mike thinks there...i think its a vicious circle....flooz, well the anonymous pretty much summed up what I would have said, in less that 100 lines.(I take it you have a poor ability to concentrate or read)..you ever hear about scrum halfs feeding in the first couple scrums of the game to see how much they can push the ref??

I dunno about 6 points for a try, I think 5 for a try 2 for the kick, but then 2 point for the penalty kick would be betterand keep DGs the same at 3.

I think convesions shouldnt be minimised as I do enjoy it when a team has a chance to win with a conversion, and you have to admit some conversions are not straight forward..

well, there you go flooz, you can practice your counting now as well, im pretty sure thats under 100 lines!

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Joost December 13, 2009 7:32 pm

The point is, a whole team can rely on just a good kicker and keep him on the field, even if he is a bad player all round, just like our old friend Ronan O'Gara. You keep the scoreboard ticking and let the forwards do the rest, while your backs will have the odd midfield tackle or so.

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Shark Attack December 13, 2009 7:42 pm

LOL
could you imagine if there was no more "playing the ref" at the break down?
Richie McCaw would have to go back to school

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MCB December 13, 2009 8:08 pm

In response to those complaining about Munster playing boring rugby:

They aren't there to put on an exhibition, they're there to win. Simple as. I'd take any win over Perpignan, regardless of how they do it. And last season Munster played some of the most exciting running rugby in the competition. Aerial ping pong is boring but when teams kick the corners and control the game like ROG did its worth watching

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Cheis December 13, 2009 9:24 pm

3 tries ... perp shouldve won, pity they gave away so many penalties, but if i was munster, i'd say 'thankyou very much' too!! ;P

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Mike December 13, 2009 9:36 pm

Cheis,

If you saw the game you would see that 2 of the tries were very lucky (although the third was brilliant). They scored 2 tries from 2 visits into the Munster half - they were totally against the run of play. I imagine Munster would have scored some tries too if Perpignan did not keep stopping them by illegally slowing down the ball and by high tackling and standing offside in the backline.

It is true though that the summary of the game makes it look like Munster were lucky. They weren't - they applied all of the pressure.

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Flooz December 13, 2009 10:41 pm

To No 7,

thks for the summary
i think we won't resolve the future of what rugby should be about, here on his forum.
What i mean is, i just wish that IRB should give more importance to the fact to score tries, take risks, create something. Or we will see rugby killed by a game full of pick and go and stereotypical actions

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Gavin December 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Flooz -

I think you are right. But this means that teams like Perpignan, who use illegal tactics to stop the other team getting fast ball or space, must be punished. How can you punish them? Penalty kicks. If they thought they could stop Munster from scoring tries without breaking the rules, they would have done that.

For people who do not understand rugby, this looked like a boring team beating an exciting team who scored 3 tries by kicking. To people who DO understand rugby, it looked like a team under pressure for 80 minutes who broke the rules hoping to stop tries and lost the game anyway.

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willtopps December 14, 2009 12:48 am

Munster are boring. Everything they embody is boring. You need only look at their captain, boring Paul O'Connell. The epitomy of boring, static, 'pragmatic' percentage play. He's the antithesis of dynamism.

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Anonymous December 14, 2009 1:39 am

I watched this game from Sydney.
I'm a neutral, so no bias.
What I saw was a Munster team who were great at field position rugby and holding onto possession but had very little cutting edge and couldn't seem to score tries.
I saw a French team with much more flair and ability to cross the line, who had less possession but used their possession better (which is actually the way of modern rugby - often the team with less of the ball wins because they are using their possession more wisely, they are scoring tries straight away instead of plodding up the field).
However what I also saw was a French team with fairly poor discipline, so I can understand why people would say the French team deserved to lose.
The ref was fairly pedantic though, and let some Munster stuff go, while being quite harsh with the Frenchies. Interesting that Munster got just enough penalties to win by one point. A little convenient.
All in all, if I was a Munster fan I'd be happy with the win, but very concerned by my sides lack of a cutting edge on attack.
If I was a Perpignan fan I'd be pretty annoyed at the ref.

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No.7 December 14, 2009 2:28 am

....MCB said what i have said in so many other posts..especially the scot-aus game!....

You all forget that no matter how much money is involved in rugby tickets, merchandise etc etc the main priority is to win....and the other thing is, if you want to be entertained and dont find a simple rugby match entertaining (because you cant see or dont appreciate what its actually like on a pitch!), then watch movie, or a drama on tv.....

Imagine both teams in the locker room before the game with the coach saying:

'COME ON BOYS, I WANT YOU TO GO OUT THERE AND PLAY A HARD MATCH.......OH YEH AND DONT FORGET ABOVE ALL ELSE TO MAKE SURE YOU ENTERTAIN THE CROWD, REMEMBER THEY PAYED TO COME SEE YOU SCORE TRIES, SO IF YOU DONT WIN BUT YOU SCORE LOTS OF TRIES THEN DONT WORRY, YOU PROVIDED ENTERTAINMENT!!!'

Those 30 guys on the pitch want a win! sometimes you take it anyway you can!!!

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No.7 December 14, 2009 2:31 am

oh yeh, forgot to say...

Im aware scottish rugby isnt particularly strong at the moment, but it was 30 years? or something since they beat aus?....

I think the scots will take a win anyway they can and still be proud of it, and so they should be, australia has one of the best teams out there (in comparison to scotland) and scotland held their own and came out with a win?

now some of you say that wasnt exciting, i didnt want australia to win, so i was supporting the scots and i thought it was one hell of a close fought exciting match!!! and no doubt aussie supporters didnt fall asleep when watching it...

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:) December 14, 2009 3:02 am

From watching just the highlights and seeing where the penalties are coming from . . . .offside perp player thwarts munster attack...high tackle perp player thwarts munster attack...

i mean, yeh perp may have played the better rugby in some of your opinions, but to me, it looked like the few munster attacks were stopped with foul play, it may be accidental (the high tackle.)

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Anonymous December 14, 2009 10:11 am

There is an awful lot of know it alls posting on this site,saying munster should have lost who didnt see the game,munster played all the rugby,fact, USAP knew coming into this game that o gara was struggling with his goal kicking,so there tactic was to give the penalties away if they were under serious pressure,hoping that o gara would have another bad day,for this alone USAP deserved to lose,the tries were great tries but they were completly against the run of play,anyone who watched the game couldnt disagree with that.Alot of people here havent a clue what they are talking about,a win is a win in the HC and who gives a shit as long as you get it,so bitch a whinge all ye want but munster deserved their win,now get over it

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Anonymous December 14, 2009 3:41 pm

I really liked O'Gara's effort on Burger's try, it really looked like he was interested in making a tackle....

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Jack December 15, 2009 10:33 am

Even if O'Gara had tackled Burger, would it have made a difference? He probably would have run through him! (and I'm a Munster fan...)

On another topic, check out Burger's reaction when he scores, taunting the crowd with his 'I can't hear you' gesture. The ignorant fool thought he had won the game. I would love to see his face 5 minutes later when they lost...

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Keith_Percy12 December 16, 2009 11:51 pm

ROG proving that he has the ability to do one thing Sexto cant... Control a game

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Jon December 17, 2009 12:57 am

ROG just kicks. That's about it.
Kicking is very important in the modern game, but I'd think you want a bit more out of your fly-half, like creativity, a good running game and maybe the ability to tackle.

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John F December 17, 2009 1:10 am

Lol at the Munster Propaganda on this thread.

If ROG controlled the game how come they only just won at home without scoring a try or threatening to?

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No.7 December 18, 2009 1:04 pm

I dont get it when people see a score like 9-8 scot aus, and 24-23 munster perp etc and say it was a bad game.....

i really dont get it.....

i think the majority of the time close games are better.....

....and also people hear 'no tries' or 'only one team scored tries' etc and they think Boring!...i dont get it.....really is that what you watch for?

i mean personally a player putting downward pressure on a ball in the oppo in goal area is not really the be all and end all for me...

there can still be some great rugby played without tries.....

i mean take the aus scot game, would you say in the last 5 mins or so that it was boring? australia constantly hammering the scots defence and if they hadnt got through it would have made still made it a good match....

i dunno, i thought this game was slowed down lots with penalties, but penalties come from ones side cheating/infringing etc, so why shouldnt they be punished?!?

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