Saturday, December 26, 2009
Sean Lamont yellow carded for hit on Isa Nacewa
So today things are back on track as I've got this big hit for you from the recent match between the Scarlets and Leinster in the Heineken Cup.
Lately a lot of big tackles have been scrutinised very closely as we've seen some players get away with a few hits they perhaps shouldn't have, and others who have been harshly dealt with by both the refs and the citing commissions.
In November we featured a clip of Scottish wing Sean Lamont putting in two big hits against the Fijians at Murrayfield. Against Leinster a couple of weeks ago, Lamont smashed another Fijian, but this time had ten minutes on the sideline afterwards to think about his technique.
Referee Chris White, after conferring with his touch judge, said that Lamont used his shoulder and didn't wrap his arms as he flew into Isa Nacewa. Despite Lamont's protestations, he was given the yellow card and Leinster kicked the resulting penalty.
It's a perfect example of how two different referees can view a tackle completely differently, as Lamont's second tackle (in the other clip that you can view in the related links) was very similar to this, yet was deemed perfectly legal.
Another interesting point about this clip is that at the end you can see Shane Horgan and Daniel Evans in a bit of a scuffle, with Horgan placing his hand all over the face of Evans. You can hear the crowd react when they see the replay on the big screen in the stadium.
If we've learned anything lately, it's that if Horgan had even so much as touched his fingers on Evans' eyes, it would have been considered some kind of 'eye-gouge', and he may well have been in trouble for it.
It's obvious though that Horgan wasn't doing anything of the sort, but shows you how easily actions can be misinterpreted when scrutinised so critically.
Horgan was basically a few centimetres away from being labelled an eye-gouger for the rest of his career, which is ridiculous. Perhaps something to bear in mind when making judgements about the incidents we've seen this year, and will no doubt see in the future.
:: Related Posts ::
Jonathan Davies big tackle against Leinster
Leinster pick up bonus point in good win over Scarlets
Sean Lamont takes care of the Fijian wingers
Time:
01:56
Jonathan Davies big tackle against Leinster
Leinster pick up bonus point in good win over Scarlets
Sean Lamont takes care of the Fijian wingers
Posted at 4:09 pm | 45 comments
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Viewing 45 comments
Anonymous December 26, 2009 4:41 pm
first comment omg best time of my life. thanks mum and dad!!!!
Anonymous Sr. December 26, 2009 5:04 pm
No wrap whatsoever. It looked to me like he actually hit with the outside of his shoulder, more like a bodycheck in hockey.
BTW. First comment actually say something relevant.
You're welcome, son.
BTW. First comment actually say something relevant.
You're welcome, son.
ST December 26, 2009 5:12 pm
Dirty stuff must be punished, but whats happening with the big hits?
Every time i see a big hit now its always being penalised and so were losing that sort of stuff which helps making this game so intesresting and tough. Its obvius why so many people are turning to League.
Every time i see a big hit now its always being penalised and so were losing that sort of stuff which helps making this game so intesresting and tough. Its obvius why so many people are turning to League.
theboss December 26, 2009 5:23 pm
Haha! Who would turn to league!?
Rugby has turned into a collision game now instead of the skill game it should be. At every point of contact theres the possibility of getting the ball hence the massive hits and lots of kicking away. There was nothing wrong with the game 5 years ago, now it's gone to shit because of all the messing with law interpretations and elv's etc...
Rugby has turned into a collision game now instead of the skill game it should be. At every point of contact theres the possibility of getting the ball hence the massive hits and lots of kicking away. There was nothing wrong with the game 5 years ago, now it's gone to shit because of all the messing with law interpretations and elv's etc...
JPM December 26, 2009 5:30 pm
Clearly a classic shoulder charge with the outside of the shoulder. No doubt a yellow as the law presently stands.
But again, I ask, why is this type of his illegal? Just give yellow cards for shots that are high and/or late.
But again, I ask, why is this type of his illegal? Just give yellow cards for shots that are high and/or late.
Anonymous December 26, 2009 5:38 pm
"Rugby has turned into a collision game now instead of the skill game it should be."
Most games I see have no collisions. Just people hugging each other.
Clearly you've never seen NFL or League if you think tackles in Union can be describe as collisions lol.
Most hits in Union are small as you like. If TSRB series was to include both League and Union 98% of the videos would have been made up of League hits.
Most games I see have no collisions. Just people hugging each other.
Clearly you've never seen NFL or League if you think tackles in Union can be describe as collisions lol.
Most hits in Union are small as you like. If TSRB series was to include both League and Union 98% of the videos would have been made up of League hits.
J89 December 26, 2009 5:43 pm
As a scarlets fan unfortunatly I would have to say thats a yellow..no attempt to complete the tackle.
And as much as Horgan is an arse it wasnt an attempt at a gouge by any means, no foul play by him.
And as much as Horgan is an arse it wasnt an attempt at a gouge by any means, no foul play by him.
No.7 December 26, 2009 7:04 pm
....well, i think the argument here would be: 'are hits like those worth yellows?' because its obvious that had little or no arms involved...
I suppose this tackle looked particularly bad as Nacewa stayed down for a little while....
Also those commenting TSRB the series is called 'TRY SAVERS and rib breakers'..... but obviously you ignore the try saving side of things....
Also there are plenty big hits in rugby without it being an 'illegal' hit....
I suppose this tackle looked particularly bad as Nacewa stayed down for a little while....
Also those commenting TSRB the series is called 'TRY SAVERS and rib breakers'..... but obviously you ignore the try saving side of things....
Also there are plenty big hits in rugby without it being an 'illegal' hit....
miguel December 26, 2009 7:05 pm
JPM
why is the hit illegal?
.... because its illegal. its a safety issue, you use your arms in the tackle, otherwise it will just be body checks and massive collisions that 1. dont require as much skill to perform properly and 2. are generally more dangerous beyond what is acceptable.
no question it was an illegal hit and seems like a sound yellow.
why is the hit illegal?
.... because its illegal. its a safety issue, you use your arms in the tackle, otherwise it will just be body checks and massive collisions that 1. dont require as much skill to perform properly and 2. are generally more dangerous beyond what is acceptable.
no question it was an illegal hit and seems like a sound yellow.
No.7 December 26, 2009 7:10 pm
....oh yeh, just to add, that wouldnt be my argument, just the argument....
i personally dont give sh*t, play to the ref and you'll be ok!
i personally dont give sh*t, play to the ref and you'll be ok!
Anonymous December 26, 2009 7:11 pm
Horgan is such a face-rubber!! Absolutely disgusting. Who knows where those hands have been!
;)
;)
Joost December 26, 2009 7:37 pm
Fine tackle. Wrapped enough. Horgan is a clown. Lamont is a fine player and the citing commision wear skirts.
luxi December 26, 2009 10:17 pm
compared to the 2nd hit on the fijian winger, this one has no arms around but its defo not worth a yellow card, penalty and thats all !!!
Huh!! the 3rd December 26, 2009 10:40 pm
Remember watching live and thinking Horgan was a complete knob. Watching it again, the opinion is the same. If you want to push someone away, shove em in the back, don't place your hands on his face and push.
Kearney for tests December 27, 2009 12:00 am
I remember seeing Lamont going mad and I thought that because he was getting so animated that he was right. When I saw the replay though, I realised then that he's an absolute knob. If he had accepted it, fine. But he made such a big deal as if he was being hard done-by. I hate when people don't admit when they're wrong like that.
And Joost I completely disagree with you. He didn't wrap him in the slightest. Are you saying that no wrap is enough then? Because it's obviously not.
And Joost I completely disagree with you. He didn't wrap him in the slightest. Are you saying that no wrap is enough then? Because it's obviously not.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 3:13 am
I actually have no problem with this.
Hit him as he was kicking it.
I guess due to the retarded 'wrap' law it's probably illegal.
Hit him as he was kicking it.
I guess due to the retarded 'wrap' law it's probably illegal.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 4:26 am
Clearly an illegal hit. No attempt to wrap at all. Unlike the two hits in the clips from Scotland vs. Figi, this hit was completely outside the bounds of acceptable play. I don't know if this was yellow card worthy, however. A penalty is clearly deserved here, but a card seems harsh, unless Lamont had been warned before.
Aussie Cowboy December 27, 2009 4:50 am
Ya, just a question for you kids: could any of the top 14/Euro Cup/Mangers etc beat the Bulls, Crusaders, Brumbies, Sharks and Canes?
just a drrrrunk December 27, 2009 7:38 am
"Ya, just a question for you kids: could any of the top 14/Euro Cup/Mangers etc beat the Bulls, Crusaders, Brumbies, Sharks and Canes?"
Probably...on a good day. But that is something we'll probably never see, unfortunately.
I think that would be awesome - instead of these Lions tours every 4 years, it'd be cool to see some provincial/club sides facing off, all NH v. SH style at least once a year - exhibition matches. That way, it'd settle these disputes that come up when touring international sides play mid-week games and field less-than-top-notch players, so a victory can't be well-celebrated, and a loss is "who cares?".
Anyways, I don't usually have a problem with kickers getting pummeled - even if it's "late" - but this had no intent of a "tackle" behind it, so I feel a penalty/card was acceptable. Had he used his arms, it would've been awesome and I would've cheered, even though I usually lean Leinster.
Probably...on a good day. But that is something we'll probably never see, unfortunately.
I think that would be awesome - instead of these Lions tours every 4 years, it'd be cool to see some provincial/club sides facing off, all NH v. SH style at least once a year - exhibition matches. That way, it'd settle these disputes that come up when touring international sides play mid-week games and field less-than-top-notch players, so a victory can't be well-celebrated, and a loss is "who cares?".
Anyways, I don't usually have a problem with kickers getting pummeled - even if it's "late" - but this had no intent of a "tackle" behind it, so I feel a penalty/card was acceptable. Had he used his arms, it would've been awesome and I would've cheered, even though I usually lean Leinster.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 7:47 am
Penalty would be enough. Too much carding in the game.
goodNumber10 December 27, 2009 10:41 am
"Most hits in Union are small as you like. If TSRB series was to include both League and Union 98% of the videos would have been made up of League hits."
It's not that hard to put in massive hits when guys run straight and look for contact - as they do 90% of the time in league.
big hit's in league always come when the forwards, and i use that term loosely, are carrying on the first 4 tackles.
If a runner does not deviate from his line, as League players do, then it's easier to line up a massive hit.
Big hit's in union are fewer because a defender has more questions asked of him - simple.
As for more and more people turning to league, it's only in one country that league is not the very poor relation of union and that's Australia.
As for Lamont's hit, just stupidity to be honest - he is quite hot headed anyway, yellow is justified and they are right to stamp these type of hits out.
It's not that hard to put in massive hits when guys run straight and look for contact - as they do 90% of the time in league.
big hit's in league always come when the forwards, and i use that term loosely, are carrying on the first 4 tackles.
If a runner does not deviate from his line, as League players do, then it's easier to line up a massive hit.
Big hit's in union are fewer because a defender has more questions asked of him - simple.
As for more and more people turning to league, it's only in one country that league is not the very poor relation of union and that's Australia.
As for Lamont's hit, just stupidity to be honest - he is quite hot headed anyway, yellow is justified and they are right to stamp these type of hits out.
goodNumber10 December 27, 2009 10:45 am
"Ya, just a question for you kids: could any of the top 14/Euro Cup/Mangers etc beat the Bulls, Crusaders, Brumbies, Sharks and Canes?"
I'm pretty sure that teams like harlequins and leicester and Newcastle etc.. play quite frequently with a lot of Australian and South Africa provincial teams touring the UK as preseason to super.
The S14 teams nearly always lose their games against premiership clubs.
I'm pretty sure that teams like harlequins and leicester and Newcastle etc.. play quite frequently with a lot of Australian and South Africa provincial teams touring the UK as preseason to super.
The S14 teams nearly always lose their games against premiership clubs.
YeaBwoii !!! December 27, 2009 10:54 am
Did the referee say "Shoulder first."
Well of course its shoulder first, you don't do arms first, u hit with the shoulder, then wrap with the arms, which he didnt do, so it is still a yellow.
Horgan... I like him, but he pissed me off there when he pushed the 15.
Lamont at 13?? hmm...
Well of course its shoulder first, you don't do arms first, u hit with the shoulder, then wrap with the arms, which he didnt do, so it is still a yellow.
Horgan... I like him, but he pissed me off there when he pushed the 15.
Lamont at 13?? hmm...
HM December 27, 2009 11:50 am
Fucking great hit - illegal though.
Almost looked like he was turning away to follow the kick and that was why he didn't wrap.
Out of interest, given that the argument against shoulder charging is based on safety, how many injuries come from charges in rugby league? Is there an argument for allowing shoulder charges in union. It would definitely make the game more exciting to watch and play, but could take some of the skill away.
Almost looked like he was turning away to follow the kick and that was why he didn't wrap.
Out of interest, given that the argument against shoulder charging is based on safety, how many injuries come from charges in rugby league? Is there an argument for allowing shoulder charges in union. It would definitely make the game more exciting to watch and play, but could take some of the skill away.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 12:14 pm
hmm he should have wrapped and put him to the floor, looked kind of uncontrolled, nacewa is cleary milking it though, could have gotten up straight away
R.O'C.K. for Ireland December 27, 2009 1:06 pm
"Clearly you've never seen NFL or League if you think tackles in Union can be describe as collisions lol"
yeah much beter to get a load of pads and helmets on before running into eachother, makes it much tougher.....pause.....nat. (love league, epic game)
Illegal hit but fun to watch, seems rugby is getting a bit to soft, still great though.
Aussie Cowboy, lets work on getting your national side to beat the eng prem teams before you bring over the club sides ;-)
yeah much beter to get a load of pads and helmets on before running into eachother, makes it much tougher.....pause.....nat. (love league, epic game)
Illegal hit but fun to watch, seems rugby is getting a bit to soft, still great though.
Aussie Cowboy, lets work on getting your national side to beat the eng prem teams before you bring over the club sides ;-)
Eoghan December 27, 2009 1:46 pm
Whoever said they have no problem with kickers being hit late...errr...eject eject eject etc.
I thought the hit was a pretty uncontroversial yellow - which was sufficient punishment for it - no arms, and borderline (in fact pretty probably late).
Horgan is some eejit to be putting his hands anywhere near someones face like that, where it is utterly unnecessary, but obviously not a gouge. A slip/loss of control by either player involved could have made him look very bad, and put him on the sideline for a long time.
I thought the hit was a pretty uncontroversial yellow - which was sufficient punishment for it - no arms, and borderline (in fact pretty probably late).
Horgan is some eejit to be putting his hands anywhere near someones face like that, where it is utterly unnecessary, but obviously not a gouge. A slip/loss of control by either player involved could have made him look very bad, and put him on the sideline for a long time.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 2:32 pm
As for more and more people turning to league, it's only in one country that league is not the very poor relation of union and that's Australia.
........
When was the last time you checked the TV ratings in England? SuperLeague is head and shoulders above Union in the TV ratings. No question.
The only reason Union slightly edges bums on seats attendance is because British Union fans are largely middle class and can afford to go to all the games
........
When was the last time you checked the TV ratings in England? SuperLeague is head and shoulders above Union in the TV ratings. No question.
The only reason Union slightly edges bums on seats attendance is because British Union fans are largely middle class and can afford to go to all the games
Anonymous December 27, 2009 3:02 pm
League hits are harder.
The reasons for that are many.
It's a much harder sport, most of the tackles (like this one) that get carded in union, wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in league. No problem at all, part of the game.
And you know what, it's alot fucking better than all this namby pamby, wrap rule, try not to hurt him, bullshit in union.
The reasons for that are many.
It's a much harder sport, most of the tackles (like this one) that get carded in union, wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in league. No problem at all, part of the game.
And you know what, it's alot fucking better than all this namby pamby, wrap rule, try not to hurt him, bullshit in union.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 3:47 pm
.....league and union, incase you havent noticed are two different games...
They require different techniques....
I dont really know how to describe it, i've played both, union is the first and foremost, for me, but league then kicks in during the summer as a bit of a past time and its just totally different....
i mean to start with the 'breakdown' comparing league to union, batter the daylights out of a player in league and then get up and let him play the ball, union is so so different...
as i said, those who have played both will know what i mean. Personally i prefer union...but ofcourse there are some that will prefer league.
I just get a bit enraged over those who say, no wonder people turn to league....union has a huge amount of different elements, scrums, rucks, mauls, defence, offence, lineouts, etc etc etc, so concentrating on huge defence and blistering fast offence isnt going to cut it in the game!
They require different techniques....
I dont really know how to describe it, i've played both, union is the first and foremost, for me, but league then kicks in during the summer as a bit of a past time and its just totally different....
i mean to start with the 'breakdown' comparing league to union, batter the daylights out of a player in league and then get up and let him play the ball, union is so so different...
as i said, those who have played both will know what i mean. Personally i prefer union...but ofcourse there are some that will prefer league.
I just get a bit enraged over those who say, no wonder people turn to league....union has a huge amount of different elements, scrums, rucks, mauls, defence, offence, lineouts, etc etc etc, so concentrating on huge defence and blistering fast offence isnt going to cut it in the game!
Jim December 27, 2009 3:57 pm
I am glad to see that this was called. There has been a lot of publicity in North America lately about traumatic brain injury in contact sports.
Recent research indicates that a professional (American) football player may receive 15,000 - 20,000 separate brain injuries over the course of a career, starting in his early teens.
The life expectancy of professionals who play the high impact positions is more than twenty years less than the national average.
Because anecdotal evidence catches the public imagination much more than mere fact, the slew of players from the great Pittsburgh Steelers teams of the 1970's who have died young -- complete with homelessness, mental illness and suicide has finally brought home to (some of) the public that getting a concussion or even a non-concussion traumatic Brain Injury is not really a good thing.
Keep it out of REAL football, please!
Recent research indicates that a professional (American) football player may receive 15,000 - 20,000 separate brain injuries over the course of a career, starting in his early teens.
The life expectancy of professionals who play the high impact positions is more than twenty years less than the national average.
Because anecdotal evidence catches the public imagination much more than mere fact, the slew of players from the great Pittsburgh Steelers teams of the 1970's who have died young -- complete with homelessness, mental illness and suicide has finally brought home to (some of) the public that getting a concussion or even a non-concussion traumatic Brain Injury is not really a good thing.
Keep it out of REAL football, please!
Philip December 27, 2009 4:15 pm
"Ya, just a question for you kids: could any of the top 14/Euro Cup/Mangers etc beat the Bulls, Crusaders, Brumbies, Sharks and Canes?"
Would love to see either a winner of heineken cup v super 15 world final in end May/start june or a tournement between top 2 in NH and top 2 in SH over 2 weekends
Personally think Leinster/Munster would have an edge on Bulls/Sharks but games between likes of Toulose Leinster, Munster, Tigers, Biaritz, Crusaders and Bulls would be a great spectacle for Rugby and could be hosted in different country every year to further rugbys support base.... think for 1 match a year could be a great move by IRB
Would love to see either a winner of heineken cup v super 15 world final in end May/start june or a tournement between top 2 in NH and top 2 in SH over 2 weekends
Personally think Leinster/Munster would have an edge on Bulls/Sharks but games between likes of Toulose Leinster, Munster, Tigers, Biaritz, Crusaders and Bulls would be a great spectacle for Rugby and could be hosted in different country every year to further rugbys support base.... think for 1 match a year could be a great move by IRB
Anonymous December 27, 2009 5:12 pm
It depends on when it was played.
You could never have both teams play each other when they are both in season. One would always be on their off-season. That's why it's never been done.
The Bulls at home though, would kill any NH club side.
You could never have both teams play each other when they are both in season. One would always be on their off-season. That's why it's never been done.
The Bulls at home though, would kill any NH club side.
goodNumber10 December 27, 2009 8:41 pm
"When was the last time you checked the TV ratings in England? SuperLeague is head and shoulders above Union in the TV ratings. No question."
That old chestnut again... it's just utter utter rubbish pushed by the superleauge to promote their brand.
A combined total of all stats on all channels showing union compared to league dwarfs leauge.
FACT!
the only country where overall stats for league beat union is...wait for it... australia.
That old chestnut again... it's just utter utter rubbish pushed by the superleauge to promote their brand.
A combined total of all stats on all channels showing union compared to league dwarfs leauge.
FACT!
the only country where overall stats for league beat union is...wait for it... australia.
Anonymous December 27, 2009 10:59 pm
Munster on a half decent day would abuse the Bulls at home. Its what they do.
They wait until real pressure is on like the USAP game and they go to a place where only 2 teams had won in the last number of years and destroy them.
O'Connell would make Matfield look like a kid in a sand box with Flannery and Hayes with him
They wait until real pressure is on like the USAP game and they go to a place where only 2 teams had won in the last number of years and destroy them.
O'Connell would make Matfield look like a kid in a sand box with Flannery and Hayes with him
Anonymous December 28, 2009 2:24 am
This might be a penalty in league, for a late hit, since he'd already kicked it.
You'd never get sent off for something like this though, which I agree with.
You'd never get sent off for something like this though, which I agree with.
Anonymous December 28, 2009 2:34 am
SEAN LAMONT (SIGH) "He's a Pap" what a ledgend
javier December 28, 2009 3:22 am
"O'Connell would make Matfield look like a kid in a sand box with Flannery and Hayes with him"
Buddy, I'm out and out a Munster fan and I think you must've not watched the Lions tour...or you've got a fortunate case of selective amnesia.
The only time Matfield seems to look bad is if Botha isn't there (ie - the recent emberrasing tour of the NH). He was in no way shown up by O'Connell (who, ironically, acts MORE like a child; when things aren't going his way, he moans and groans to the ref to try and muster up some penalties). Hayes, for as much as I like him, is probably Ireland's weakest scrummaging prop, and a strong Bulls side would really exploit that. Flannery, though, is a tremendous hooker - world class.
I think Munster could possibly take the Bulls, but only on a good day, when they're playing with some heart. Not the boring shit we saw at the beginning of the HC and the poor early performances in the Magners League. If you discredit the Bulls that easily, you must never watch the S14.
Buddy, I'm out and out a Munster fan and I think you must've not watched the Lions tour...or you've got a fortunate case of selective amnesia.
The only time Matfield seems to look bad is if Botha isn't there (ie - the recent emberrasing tour of the NH). He was in no way shown up by O'Connell (who, ironically, acts MORE like a child; when things aren't going his way, he moans and groans to the ref to try and muster up some penalties). Hayes, for as much as I like him, is probably Ireland's weakest scrummaging prop, and a strong Bulls side would really exploit that. Flannery, though, is a tremendous hooker - world class.
I think Munster could possibly take the Bulls, but only on a good day, when they're playing with some heart. Not the boring shit we saw at the beginning of the HC and the poor early performances in the Magners League. If you discredit the Bulls that easily, you must never watch the S14.
Anonymous December 28, 2009 5:09 am
"Munster on a half decent day would abuse the Bulls at home. Its what they do.
They wait until real pressure is on like the USAP game and they go to a place where only 2 teams had won in the last number of years and destroy them.
O'Connell would make Matfield look like a kid in a sand box with Flannery and Hayes with him"
It's what they do to ill-disciplined French club sides and pedestrian Anglo-Celtic teams.
They usually win on penalties, they play in NH conditions and grind games to victory.
That's all well and good, and I imagine any S14 side would have a real struggle on their hands away to Munster in a NH winter.
But if Munster came down and played the Canes in Wellington, the Brumbies in Canberra or the Bulls at Loftus, they'd get blown away.
They'd have no answer for the running games of teams like these.
It's not something they would be used to, and they wouldn't handle it.
They wait until real pressure is on like the USAP game and they go to a place where only 2 teams had won in the last number of years and destroy them.
O'Connell would make Matfield look like a kid in a sand box with Flannery and Hayes with him"
It's what they do to ill-disciplined French club sides and pedestrian Anglo-Celtic teams.
They usually win on penalties, they play in NH conditions and grind games to victory.
That's all well and good, and I imagine any S14 side would have a real struggle on their hands away to Munster in a NH winter.
But if Munster came down and played the Canes in Wellington, the Brumbies in Canberra or the Bulls at Loftus, they'd get blown away.
They'd have no answer for the running games of teams like these.
It's not something they would be used to, and they wouldn't handle it.
Anonymous December 28, 2009 6:11 pm
to comment on the last person there. munster play like they do becuase of the conditions at this time of the year, people seem to have forgotten what munster were like last year, up untill the leinster match. Munster could easily go to the bulls, crusader and the brumbies and win if the HC was at stake. i would bet any money, that none of them could come to thomond park and win. As last year they showed how good they were against the all black. and if they were to 'blown away buy the running rugby of the bulls' then leinster could easily out play them. Not to mention tolouse or clermont. and if you want to bring in the lecister into the equation aswell then? who beat SA. all of these games will never be played, due to the nature of the game. so could all SH people stop gong on about it. and if poeple keep saying that munster and the likes are boring dont watch them. they have to play the way they do at this time of the year becuase of the weather. if the ground was hard like in SA i'm sure they'd adapt but we can't change the way things are!
Anonymous December 29, 2009 5:14 am
At Loftus they'd have no hope against the Bulls.
Anonymous January 13, 2010 4:25 pm
Ofcource there was an attempt to wrap he just hit the deck to quickly
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