Scotland and England stalemate at Murrayfield

it was played like it was lashing rain. Which it wasn't.
That's sayin something.
Severe lack of imagination, and those never ending scrums....i do really want those minutes of my life back.

Hey Greiffel,

Please get the clip of Foden knocking out Al Kellock.

I know it was wrong technique on the part of Kellock, but what a collission!

Strange that England had to rely on the smallest guy on the pitch to do that. Surely they must lose Haskell, Easter and Borthwick.

Poor game overall, but as an England fan I'd say the Scots deserved it more.

@ Sander -

agreed, it was such a good hit!

As for why Easter, Haskell, or Borthwick didn't do anything like that, Haskell simply doesn't get enough possession at blindside in my opinion, and if you remember back to the England v Wales game when he played at no.8 he was much more effective as a ball carrier. Borthwick is simply too slow. And Easter always looks to me as if he's scared to go into contact hard with the ball for some reason, it's almost like he sees someone about to tackle him and just slows right down

This was one of the worst matches i've ever seen in my life. I'm wondering though, why Jonker couldn't manage the scrum at all. He always seemed like a very competent referee in all the other matches i've seen him in. Poor day for the ref, poor match for rugby.

terrible game, but the scottish fans (who are mainly little kids and old people) showed no respect to the england kickers which isnt in the spirit of the game.
vile bunch the joks

I don't think people are giving this game enough credit - it was pretty intense stuff, and while there should have been more cutting edge both sides at least played with a bit of ambition and tried to raise the tempo when in possession.

it wan't a classic but it was a good match for the impartial to watch.

Englands coaches surely have to go after the ^N, Johnson stays, but Wells Ford and Smith need to jog on now.

And form scotland spoint of view Parks kicked too much, at really important times when pressure was on why go for a drop goal, keep the pressure on t=go for the try... bad decision making on his part all through the game.

hmm yeh, as a scot fan i felt a little ashamed of the booing.... this game was a bit tiresome at scrum time, you just want moore to hop out of the commentary box and tell the ref what to do..

but there were some good points to this match, a jittery scotland giving england some room, and a getting back on form england trying to move the ball more!

Ben Foden HAS to start the next game

@ Geordie

Booing isn't in the spirit of the game but neither is killing the ball every time, if Jonker had spotted it properly you'd be a man down long before that second warning.

Dear Santa.

I've been a very good boy this year, and what I want for Christmas is a referee that's been in at least one scrum in his life, and knows what's meant to happen.

Thank you,
John, aged 20 and a half.

on behalf of the scottish fans, id like to apologise for the booing and jeering. Thats what we get when we try and promote the game to the football fans. I would rather see murrayfield half empty but respectfull than full of jeering kids and chavy parents.

I though the booing came from both sides.

I wish they'd just use the speaker to remind everyone to be quiet.
It's just not part of the game to boo the kickers.

I agree with Geordie; I'd rather have less fans than the ones who were at murrayfield yesterday. It seems to happen in Paris a lot too...

I was watching but not listening yesterday, so couldn't hear the booing - what a disgrace. As a Scotland fan: sorry. I remember going to one of my first rugby matches as a kid and getting a clip round the ear from my dad for cheering when the opposition missed a kick, let alone booing them!

On the other hand, what's the difference between a bit of booing and the manic whistling you get at certain continental stadia?

One of the best games of the Six Nations for me.
I agree about the booing though, I thought you would only find people pathetic enough to do that at the Millenium Stadium. Honestly, it's such poor sportsmanship. It's things like that, that make me feel embarassed to be Welsh at times.

if this was one of the best games of the six nations then F@CK that, I have been consistently unimpressed with the six nations this year, very unimpressed. Bar the last 5-10 minutes in a couple of games it has been worse than watching paint dry(including the headache from the fumes)

2 clearly very poor teams that didn't know what to do after a line break.
and what is the point in only giving lawes 7 minutes?!?!??!

I have to really enjoyed this game, bar the scrummaging farce! Granted the standard of play was poor, but it was tense, gripping and passionate throughout with the lead changing hands constantly. I'd much rather this than the ridiculous 'Super' 14 scores we're seeing at the moment!

This was always going to be a boring game and it lived up to expectation superbly. I can't wait for the real rugby teams to come north and give a lesson in playing rugby. If it wasn't for France and occasionally Wales, this competition would die a very boring death.

'Dear Santa.

I've been a very good boy this year, and what I want for Christmas is a referee that's been in at least one scrum in his life, and knows what's meant to happen.

Thank you,
John, aged 20 and a half.'

It already happened, he was on for 2 and a half minutes.....


hmmm yeh i agree with everyone about a half stadium of respectfulness than a full stadium of chavs....but then rugby is now a business....

also if any fans knew anything then booing wilkinson is daft....i've heard he try's to visualize the posts as a laughing mouth, and kicking the ball in it shuts it up....so the more noise the easier it gets....

"Anonymoussaid...One of the best games of the Six Nations for me. I agree about the booing though, I thought you would only find people pathetic enough to do that at the Millenium Stadium. Honestly, it's such poor sportsmanship. It's things like that, that make me feel embarassed to be Welsh at times."

TOTAL BULLSHIT
Why the fuck would a welsh fan enjoy that game?
You're not welsh, just some asshole english fan trying to make himself feel better online.

language.

Fortunately, we will have more tries to watch with Fra/Ita... Allez les bleus, one step left before the Grand Slam. On attend les rosbifs pour notre revanche!

neither this ug/borefest nor the S14 ruck-free current style of rugby are the answer:

France are the answer.

I feel a discussion on 'France as the best team in the world at the mo' comin on with the clip from the Fr Ital match........

I think everyone's being a bit unfair about what a boring championship this is. The French have been magestic (worthy winners if they can get the salm), Ireland have sparkled in patches, and Wales-Scotland was one of the best matches I've ever seen in the championship.

Worth bearing in mind that there's been no try at Murrayfield in a calcutta cup match for at least six years, so it's not just this year.

On another note, you'd think the IRB could put together a set of guidelines on what to look for, like crooked feeds. Most referees simply look like they don't understand. I wonder how many are ex-front-rows.

To pre-empt crowning the French as the best in the World, I'd like to point out what happened when they met New Zealand in the Autumn.

There is, and always will be, only one pre-eminent rugby nation.

(I'm English/Irish, to avoid accusations of bias)

Get monye's and foden's hits up!

I just thought I'd add my vote for a clip of the big Foden ball carry...

A very boring game.
Dan Parks + pressure = aimless kicking.
Steve Borthwick is simply too slow and too mediocre to be an international lock let alone England Captain.
Ugo Monye kicks and kicks and THE time he runs the ball he gets smashed.
Solution?
Get him out and put Foden instead. Lawes and Kennedy in the second row. Geraghty at ten (I'm sorry, Jonny, but your flat gaming days are over).
And Flood at inside centre.
Let's see if England starts playing for something.

I can tell you that the frenchs will not think that they are the best rugby nation (and they don't), even if they win the G.Slam. We have known too many disappointments after great wins or big performances that now the players beware of the "too-many-confidence-big-defeat"...

Martin Johnson, you were a great player, but you're not quite the same as a coach, sorry

When did the Foden hit happen? I missed it somehow

Oh so the Calcutta Cup is so important that Scotland were happy with the draw.. kicking it out after the 80th min.. Im sorry but "tense, passionate and blah blah blah" are the words I'd least connect with this game.. slow, boring and marred with errors? Yes. If teams want to win, some aspect of risk has to be taken.. Its like every team (except france maybe) has been given a script and has to play by it with no sense of creativity.

Jonny going off was one of the better turning points for England.. What was that horrific pass to Dylan Hartley from Wilkinson about? Especially with a 3 on 2 against a hooker. M. Johnson has to let go of him.

Dreadfully boring match, unfortunately.

"it wan't a classic but it was a good match for the impartial to watch."

As an 'impartial', I've got to disagree.

Danielli managed to get things going a little there at the end, and there were spurts of good rugby being played, but from the starting whistle, it was two teams just trying not to lose.

And good lord...those scrums....

I thought it was dreadfully boring (Watched on BBC America). I get what people say about low scoring games having the potential to massive nail biters and thrilling. All the build up in this game never really gave me anything.

Yeah, I've been saying it for a while, too much booing in games today. saw Northampton v Saracens today and at every kick, there was complete silence! Would like to see that everywhere. Munster always show respect, and kickers say they even find it intimidating!!!!!

As a neutral, with a little bit of a Scottish lean, I enjoyed the game quite abit. The Scots have to learn to use their effective outside backs more. I agree that Haskell appears basically ineffective unless someone places the ball right into his hands. The scrums in international rubgy are becoming tiring to watch. Not only did the Scots boo the English kickers, they also booed Swing Low Sweet Chariot. That's no way to respond to the opposing supporters showing you up in the stands with more impressive spirt. And I hate that song!

What a horrible looking game. No tries and Scotland kicking it out after the buzzer with scores level when they could have sent it wide or gone up the middle to get field position and possible score a try (thats when you place the ball in the in-goal area for you northerners) or gone for their own drop goal attempt. Upsetting.

could anyone who said that this was a good game or in anyway enjoyed it please watch the rugby club this week!!! it seems that the only two english people who know what they are on about is barnes and morris...england should be walking this championship yearafter year followed by france. look at ireland and wales, two small nations and yet they win more games than the english, nothing good has happened for the english since 2003 except for the world cup in 2007 which nobody knows how they made the final (and probably should have won) johnson out and most of the team to be changed cause theres too much talent going to waste... borthwick is embarrasin!! there are at least 8 second rows that have played in this championship that are better... and hes england captain!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snore, such a boring game, but then again england were playing....kick kick kick...wilkonson the savior or not as the case may be....haha in fact i think the last time England had a good game was when they won the world cup.....many moons ago indeed.

Sure rugby is a business now. Let's keep it a classy business. Give it your all on the field and shake hands after. Isn't that how you guys learned rugby?

Im sorry, but H and REDS! you guys are idiots....this game is important to scotland to not LOSE....ofcourse winning would mean a lot to scotland but they were missing patterson, R lamont, and T evans....these are big names in a team with not a huge amount of depth....so they were always on the back foot....and did you not see what happened agaisnt wales? they went for it and it cost them a key game.....you think they want 5 losses next to their name for 2010?!?!?

seriously get the f*ck back to your super 14 bullshit, im tired of your comments always complaining about tries....i dunno if you have noticed but there are things called rucks, mauls, scrums, lineouts, tackling etc in a game....these all contribute to rugby...not just tries!!!!!

'Sure rugby is a business now. Let's keep it a classy business. Give it your all on the field and shake hands after. Isn't that how you guys learned rugby?'

oh sure i was never saying it was right, i was just saying, its there to make money....and as long as it is making more and more money, ethics will get pushed aside...

It just seems that a great deal of the top level NH rugby is played not to lose... as opposed to trying to win. I am consistently astounded that Italy will play conservative to try and reduce their losing margin... Even in the Ireland Wales game where there is talented rugby players across both back and forwards for both teams seem content to wait for a mistake and react.

Is this an influence of football? Any game they seem satisfied with 1-1 or 0-0, I just can't explai it otherwise.

"Yeah, I've been saying it for a while, too much booing in games today. saw Northampton v Saracens today and at every kick, there was complete silence! Would like to see that everywhere. Munster always show respect, and kickers say they even find it intimidating!!!!!"

I don't really mind booing for conversions - after all, there are players trying to chase it down, but penalties should probably be respected a bit more.

Just to back up what you were saying, I was watching the Chiefes/Crusaders match and the commentator (forget who) said that if you want to throw a kicker (in this case, Dan Carter) off, don't make a bunch of noise, but go silent on him...speaking from experience, he said kicking at Munster was the most unnerving experience he has had....

Why a team with possesion after the buzzer with scores level would be happy to simply kick for touch boggles the mind. When you play for your country you should play to win. I'm glad i didn't pay to sit in the stands and see thats finish.

I disagree with anon 4 up, Reds and H poor form, really poor form.

*disagree with the anon and agree with Reds and H is what i mean.

This match was everything that is bad about rugby. Sure, there was a bit of intensity, so if your team was involved you'd probably find some positives and would have been on the edge of your seat. But as a neutral, it was pretty boring. I was switching between this and the Bulls game.. with more of a slant towards the latter.

Surely when the commentators, pundits (and even players!) say that it wasn't a great match, some of you guys could just admit it? The highlights of the match was when eng ran the ball.. twice I think it was. Such a bad advert for Six Nations rugby.

I hope Ugo Monye is okay though. He's all class.

Both the Saturday games were so bad that the matches in the LV cup the next day were far more intense, creative and interesting to watch. Which is a bit of a shame considering it's a cup no one really understands or is bothered about and 3 out of the 4 teams playing have had awful form this year.

I think the Foden run highlighted two things. Firstly, the England selectors have a little trouble with the issue of selecting players that are on form (is it me or is the England team turning into the 2003 near retirement team again, with a few Leicester B teamers thrown in for luck, I wonder how that happened....). Secondly, if you run at full pace with the ball into static defenders you will break the gain line, create holes and make people a little less willing to tackle you. The amount of ball that was placed to static players who then do this ridiculous crab dance infront of the opposition before falling into them left me yelling at the tv. Of course defences are going to be water tight if they aren't pushed (see Ireland 2 weeks ago).

Lastly, this may be a bit of a anti Rob Andrew rant, but why the hell are players from clubs at the bottom of the league being picked for international duty. The clubs position in the league has to be of some indication how things are going. 3 years ago we were essentially picking a back line from Newcastle. Now 2 out of 5 are from Sale, Monye and Armitage are in awful form, Flutey hasn't played much rugby and Wilkinson has been average at best....Someone is pulling the strings with this team and I'm not entirely convinced it is Johnson (otherwise we'd be looking at an all Leicester 15).

it makes you wonder what sacking Ashton achieved. he got England to a World Cup final, and their best six nations finish for five years, and they at least managed some entertaining moments along the way.

Sack Johnson, bring back Ashton. And please can we see no more of Louis Deacon.

please the clip of ally kellock getting us after being knocked out and catching a long kick - that and him getting smashed were the best bits of that game

Martin Johnson isnt cut out to be an international coach. Reminds me of Eddie O'Sullivan with his coaching. His way or the highway. Wont rotate the squad or try new players especially after the last 3 poor performances.

Pack is poor. As has been said Nick Kennedy should be in there, Borthwick isnt a good captain. Phil Dowson should replace Haskell or Easter, both are too slow. Croft is really missed. Chris Ashton is one of the form players in the GP but is getting looked over. No strong midfield either.

Johnson has done nothing to revive English rugby. Needs to blood young players soon

Can we have a coach and a captain who do kid themselves with "positives" after every dire display?
Geragty, Flood, even Cip (whoever is in form, just that Flood is the safest option by far) at 10.
Worsely actually made more contribution that I expected, and Steve Thompson steadied the ship in the set piece. As promising as Hartley, he must get his set play right.

"
TOTAL BULLSHIT
Why the fuck would a welsh fan enjoy that game?
You're not welsh, just some asshole english fan trying to make himself feel better online.

March 14, 2010 8:55 PM"

Oh dear oh dear, this is exactly what I was talking about. Why on earth you write such a childish message as that after what I said I'll never know.

Yeah some friends and I were saying this the other day why isn't Ashton playing.. he may not have a lot of flair but he's obviously doing something right atm. He reminds me of Zac Guildford.. A born and bread finisher and try seeker.

we carnt sack johnson this close to a world cup.

the reason england are shit is because of relegation SCRAP IT PUT TOP OF NATIONAL LEAGE 1 IN AND ALSO A FRANCHISE. AND STOP BRINING IN SH JOURNEYMEN
ENGLISH RUGBY IS DIENG AND IT IS GETTING WORSE.

'On the wing said...

Why a team with possesion after the buzzer with scores level would be happy to simply kick for touch boggles the mind. When you play for your country you should play to win. I'm glad i didn't pay to sit in the stands and see thats finish.

I disagree with anon 4 up, Reds and H poor form, really poor form.'

Ok smart ass, whats your answer to why they kicked it out?

You think they want no semi success, you have to remember a draw might not be a win, but it sure isnt a loss!!! you think they wanted a repeat of the wales match?

So come on, disagree with me all you want but how about sporting a reason or a solution...

thats why the NH teams have such bad records against SH teams. They are always going out and trying not to loose, how about trying to win? Thats what sport at international level is all about, WINNING.

There's ac reason. I don't know if you will get where i'm coming from or not but basically if you have the ball you should have a go, not throw in the towel.

"we carnt sack johnson this close to a world cup.

the reason england are shit is because of relegation SCRAP IT PUT TOP OF NATIONAL LEAGE 1 IN AND ALSO A FRANCHISE. AND STOP BRINING IN SH JOURNEYMEN
ENGLISH RUGBY IS DIENG AND IT IS GETTING WORSE."

The death knell for both English rugby and the written language, I suppose.

On the wing said...
"thats why the NH teams have such bad records against SH teams."


Nothing to do with the match, go away you troll, this is the second or third time you have attempted to start that silly childish arguement.

Lets talk about the match between 2 NH teams, nothing to do with the SH.

If you actually cant do that then dont bother commenting

http://forum.planet-rugby.com/index.php?t=getfile&id=20249&

Lovely. M. Attoub will be jealous.

pisss poor refereeing gave england the game.

Wow, I hadn't seen that one Pitseleh.

What magazine/article is that? I can't read the writing, and I don't remember seeing anything during the game...who is that involved?

We're talking about English hooker Dylan Hartley, the same guy who became quite famous in 2007 after doing the same thing to 3 different players from Wasps in the same game.

It's too late now to see him cited.

Attoub has been banned 70 weeks on the basis of a picture exactly like the one you show Pitseleh. Hartley, an English player, isn't even cited, and you can clearly see a gouge on this picture, it's as clear as on the Attoub's one. Who the hell said the French are paranoids? That's quite shameful.

Don't worry : M. Lapasset just called for "bans standardization". Jesus, this guy would kill his grandma to keep his seat.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/8565459.stm

Yup, looks pretty much the same as Attoub's to me, except this time it's actually a better photo of the incident.

If Attoub got a 70-week ban, then Hartley should, too. As someone who doesn't buy into the whole French paranoia thing, I'd hope they'd cite Hartley...otherwise, I might have to start changing my attitude.

Although, yeah, I guess it is too late, since it's >48 hours after the match. That's the rule, right? The citing commissioners have 48 hours to cite someone, but that's it?

Yep, too late.

So maybe it's time for many people to change their attitude. Of course, I'm French. And I'm absolutly NOT surprised by this.