Sunday, July 11, 2010
Bakkies Botha suspended for nine weeks after headbutt on Jimmy Cowan
Botha expressed remorse for the attack after appearing before a SANZAR judicial hearing in Auckland earlier today. He said he was deeply upset, but accepted the ruling.
"I sincerely regret the incident. I have let my team, my country and family down and I have done an injustice to the Springbok jersey and what it stands for," Botha said.
"I apologise to Jimmy Cowan and the New Zealand rugby public for what happened. Rugby is a physical sport but it has to be played within the boundaries and spirit of the law. I truly regret my actions and will make sure that I put the extended time away from the game to positive use and return to playing with the right attitude".
The incident occurred in the first minute after Botha had charged down a Cowan kick. He then chased, but was held back by the Kiwi halfback. He waved his arms in protestation, but his claims for a penalty were ignored by referee Alan Lewis. He then tackled Cowan and followed up with the head.
It was missed by the officials at the time, but the headbutt was replayed multiple times, both on tv and in the stadium. It was deemed to be middle of the range in terms of seriousness, but Bothas disciplinary record contributed towards the lengthy ban.
"Hes got a history. Hes probably lucky he didnt get more than nine weeks," New Zealand coach Graeme Henry said. "It was just one of those things that happens in a game which is not part of the game and has been dealt with correctly."
The South African Rugby Unions Manager of National Teams, Andy Marinos, expressed their disappointment at Botha's actions.
"SARU views any incident of foul play in a very serious light. Bakkies remains an important player in Springbok rugby and I have discussed with him the extent of his actions and the implications it could have on the team, himself personally and his family," Marinos said.
Captain John Smit summed things up best. "Only Bakkies can explain what goes on in his head."
The two sides go into battle again next weekend in Wellington, for game two of the Tri Nations.
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Time: 01:09
Posted at 4:47 pm | 100 comments
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Viewing 100 comments
ToulouseFan July 11, 2010 3:51 pm
how can that guy be such a great player and such a dick at the same time ?
Schnabel July 11, 2010 3:58 pm
Jimmy pulled on Bakkies jersey holding him back.
Bakkies gave him a little reminder not to be a cheater. Pity he got caught.
Bakkies gave him a little reminder not to be a cheater. Pity he got caught.
vinniechan July 11, 2010 4:04 pm
I don't know. To me it looked like a freak head butt if he really did go to that length just to put in a head butt, fair enough.
Oh well, John Smit summed it all up with his statement and I don't think any captain could have handled any better.
Oh well, John Smit summed it all up with his statement and I don't think any captain could have handled any better.
Anonymous July 11, 2010 4:14 pm
i wonder why you are not allowed to punch to the back of the head in boxing because its bloody dangerous what a thug could have caused serious injury very lucky to get away with nine weeks. i dont mind a little controlled aggresion but the red mist seems to come down so quick with botha
i bet he has never held some one back by there shirt before
i bet he has never held some one back by there shirt before
Anonymous July 11, 2010 4:27 pm
Agree with ToulouseFan, such a great player but such a dick.... needs some lessons in cheating, why didnt he just drop an elbow or something when he landed on the guys back
FrankyH July 11, 2010 4:32 pm
I've had enough of Bakkies. He shouldn't be allowed to play for the Boks anymore, and he's doing his best to make Danie Rossouw look good.
Anonymous July 11, 2010 4:45 pm
As great a player he is, hes just a thug. As Henry said, he's got a history, shame its only 9 weeks.
Madflyhalf July 11, 2010 4:48 pm
Botha is a dick ok.
But I think this (and Jamie Heaslip knee) happens cause refs didn't blow their whistle against the first cheater.
Who was the first cheater in that Irish ruck?
Was black jersey n. 7, joining from the side and prevent the Irish to play the ball.
Who was the first cheater here?
Jimmy Cowan obstructing Botha.
Both time, referees didn't blow anything for the first foul!
People get frustrated when this happens, and frustration makes people do stupid things.
It's simple and natural.
In these kind of things, NZ are ranking n.1! Chapeau...
That's why I hate 90% of ABs performances!
But I think this (and Jamie Heaslip knee) happens cause refs didn't blow their whistle against the first cheater.
Who was the first cheater in that Irish ruck?
Was black jersey n. 7, joining from the side and prevent the Irish to play the ball.
Who was the first cheater here?
Jimmy Cowan obstructing Botha.
Both time, referees didn't blow anything for the first foul!
People get frustrated when this happens, and frustration makes people do stupid things.
It's simple and natural.
In these kind of things, NZ are ranking n.1! Chapeau...
That's why I hate 90% of ABs performances!
Bakkiesawanker! July 11, 2010 5:22 pm
Good call Madflyhalf... I totally agree, Jimmy Cowan got what he deserved and that can all be blamed on the ref! If the ref wasn't so blind as to miss the first infringement then Bakkies wouldn't have had to do what he had to do... I mean damn, the ref then went on to miss the hudbutt! I would have been totally fine if Jimmy decided to proceed by pulling out a switch blade and castrating bakkies...
Good logic buddy. Haven't ya' ever heard that two wrongs don't make a right? What Bakkies did was wrong and idiotic no matter what way you look at it, and a player playing at the national level in tri-nations rugby should know better not to be such a twit regardless of Jimmy Cowan holding him back (which he should be embarrassed to have allowed happen since he's probably got 30kgs on him anyway)!
Good logic buddy. Haven't ya' ever heard that two wrongs don't make a right? What Bakkies did was wrong and idiotic no matter what way you look at it, and a player playing at the national level in tri-nations rugby should know better not to be such a twit regardless of Jimmy Cowan holding him back (which he should be embarrassed to have allowed happen since he's probably got 30kgs on him anyway)!
outside centre July 11, 2010 5:26 pm
Will we see the "JUSTICE FOR BAKKIES" armbands for the next match. Idiot should be banned for a year!!
Felix July 11, 2010 5:41 pm
Botha is stupid to let these things get to him. Of course it sucks and is wrong that Cowan held him back, but at test lever rugby you can't just retaliate by putting in another, far worse foul! In my opinion he needs to stay calm and wait for his opportunity to get back at Cowan - within the rules of the game. He could've put in a big hit on Cowan later.
As for the ban - absolutely justified. It seems that the TV commentator was right when he stated that the All Blacks pushed all the right buttons...
As for the ban - absolutely justified. It seems that the TV commentator was right when he stated that the All Blacks pushed all the right buttons...
bbb July 11, 2010 5:53 pm
his wife will be looking to change her surname back to her birth one, whilst bakkies drags BOTHA through the shit.
dutchrugbyplayer July 11, 2010 6:09 pm
@madflyhalf:
you can't put this one on the ref. Sure he didnt see Cowans infringement but the match was only 30 secs old. How can you get so frustrated in 30 secs of rugby that you start resorting to this kind of behaviour.
As for the headbutt being missed by the officials...i guess the officials were following the play of the ball. The tackle had already been finished so i guess they were not expecting anything funny. Besides that, a swinging arm or so draws attention. This one was less obvious and more sneaky. I guess he had those nine weeks coming in the end.
Actually the Springboks should be happy he wasnt red/carded right away. That would have made life even more difficult for them
you can't put this one on the ref. Sure he didnt see Cowans infringement but the match was only 30 secs old. How can you get so frustrated in 30 secs of rugby that you start resorting to this kind of behaviour.
As for the headbutt being missed by the officials...i guess the officials were following the play of the ball. The tackle had already been finished so i guess they were not expecting anything funny. Besides that, a swinging arm or so draws attention. This one was less obvious and more sneaky. I guess he had those nine weeks coming in the end.
Actually the Springboks should be happy he wasnt red/carded right away. That would have made life even more difficult for them
Anonymous July 11, 2010 7:29 pm
well you know, I'm the Dutch soccer trainer, can I get this guy in my butcher's team?
Anonymous July 11, 2010 7:56 pm
Mounting a guy from behind, something you want to share with the world?
frenchkoala July 11, 2010 8:37 pm
Honestly i'm so tired of this guy, is his IQ 70 ? how stupid ie he if he cannot control himself after only 1min of plays and after 4 weeks of suspension ?
Anonymous July 11, 2010 9:17 pm
Am I the only one getting fed up with botha? he seems to be getting cited every few weeks. He's a liability and the fact he knows that there's a 90% chance he'll get cited just adds to his own stupidity. Personally the games better of without him and players like him. They ruin the rugby and i think repeat offenders like him should be punished with lengthy suspensions, maybe a 3rd strike system for a 6 month ban or something.
Dalma July 11, 2010 9:23 pm
This mean that Botha will spend almost 3 months without being cited. Great performance for him!
Anonymous July 11, 2010 9:32 pm
this guy shouldn't be allowed to play for the springboks.
he is meant to be a role model for young kids wanting to grow up and play this beautiful game. dicks like this shouldn't be allowed to keep wearing the green and gold as it teaches the kid a bad lesson that bad sportsmen ship seems to go unnoticed when wanting to play for your country
he is meant to be a role model for young kids wanting to grow up and play this beautiful game. dicks like this shouldn't be allowed to keep wearing the green and gold as it teaches the kid a bad lesson that bad sportsmen ship seems to go unnoticed when wanting to play for your country
Anonymous July 11, 2010 9:50 pm
victor matfield - did bakkies give you a headbutt too becasue Im wonder if you are thinking right?
didn't know the 'vice captain' of SA rugby condoned cheating a foul play
didn't know the 'vice captain' of SA rugby condoned cheating a foul play
Jack July 11, 2010 10:23 pm
Its probably worth a 2 week ban, it was dirty, cheap and could have concussed little cowan, its no more than that as an isolated incident.
BUT, its bakkies and he does it ALL THE TIME and its great if youre a bok because hes so intimidating but he sometimes causes pretty bad injuries and it shouldnt be part of the game.
WE LIKE the clever little bending of the rules here and there like how mccaw and most 7s play, but cheap shots are not part of the game, bakkies needs to show his prowess within the laws of the game
BUT, its bakkies and he does it ALL THE TIME and its great if youre a bok because hes so intimidating but he sometimes causes pretty bad injuries and it shouldnt be part of the game.
WE LIKE the clever little bending of the rules here and there like how mccaw and most 7s play, but cheap shots are not part of the game, bakkies needs to show his prowess within the laws of the game
Gerald July 11, 2010 10:47 pm
Good, fucking GOOD!!!
I think the reason he got 9 weeks is because the Disaplinary Board must be sick and tired of Botha getting in trouble.
But he wont learn. Why?? Because he is a thug and we all know it.
I think the reason he got 9 weeks is because the Disaplinary Board must be sick and tired of Botha getting in trouble.
But he wont learn. Why?? Because he is a thug and we all know it.
Canadian Content July 11, 2010 11:13 pm
So mad fly half an infringement of the rules by one player justifies an act of violence with intent to injure by another player? This is not the UFC, players have to expect they will be protected when vulnerable. what Botha and Heaslip did have no place on the rugby field. If this was the case we would have "justice" meted indiscriminately all over the field and tonnes of serious injuries.
Neutral July 11, 2010 11:17 pm
Pfft that was nothing. Cowan held him back and Bakkies let out this frustration. The way everyone is carrying on I expected alot worse.
cheyanqui July 11, 2010 11:24 pm
@madflyhalf --
couldn't agree more
When will the IRB crack down on the players who create the flashpoint in the first place?
Reminds me of when Troncon got the one month ban for cold-cocking Stringer. Stringer grabbed his jersey first.
These players (Cowan, Stringer) should at least get something -- a yellow if the ref catches it. A citing post-match by the commissioner. How can they possibly review the tape of Troncon / Botha and not see the professional foul committed by the other player?
Perhaps not suspension the first go around for a Stringer / Cowan, but at least put it into their record.
Then the next time they come up for something (Cowan at least doesn't have a clean slate; cannot speak for Stringer), they have priors and perhaps they get a week tacked onto a ban for something else.
No excuse for what Bakkies did. Some day, I just wish he picked on a man his own size (few out there, other than Chris Jack), and they just go toe-to-toe -- at least it would be more honest than this off-the-ball p**s-kopf stuff he does with a smaller player.
couldn't agree more
When will the IRB crack down on the players who create the flashpoint in the first place?
Reminds me of when Troncon got the one month ban for cold-cocking Stringer. Stringer grabbed his jersey first.
These players (Cowan, Stringer) should at least get something -- a yellow if the ref catches it. A citing post-match by the commissioner. How can they possibly review the tape of Troncon / Botha and not see the professional foul committed by the other player?
Perhaps not suspension the first go around for a Stringer / Cowan, but at least put it into their record.
Then the next time they come up for something (Cowan at least doesn't have a clean slate; cannot speak for Stringer), they have priors and perhaps they get a week tacked onto a ban for something else.
No excuse for what Bakkies did. Some day, I just wish he picked on a man his own size (few out there, other than Chris Jack), and they just go toe-to-toe -- at least it would be more honest than this off-the-ball p**s-kopf stuff he does with a smaller player.
Dalma July 11, 2010 11:35 pm
"These players (Cowan, Stringer) should at least get something -- a yellow if the ref catches it. A citing post-match by the commissioner."
Oh yes. And now take a look at the rules and tell us how long a player should be banned for grabbing a shirt.
Thank you.
Oh yes. And now take a look at the rules and tell us how long a player should be banned for grabbing a shirt.
Thank you.
Jono July 12, 2010 12:17 am
A yellow card for slowing a guy down? WTF? A citing? Are yous erious.
It's a penalty, no more than that.
Cowan is a little prick but that doesn't eman you can just headbut him. It doesn't work that way.
For years the Saffers big weakness was their discipline, once they got that under control they became world champs. Botha is still playing the way they used to, when they were beating themselves by giving away penalties all the time.
It's a penalty, no more than that.
Cowan is a little prick but that doesn't eman you can just headbut him. It doesn't work that way.
For years the Saffers big weakness was their discipline, once they got that under control they became world champs. Botha is still playing the way they used to, when they were beating themselves by giving away penalties all the time.
darrenT July 12, 2010 12:37 am
cheyanqui said... When will the IRB crack down on the players who create the flashpoint in the first place?
Can't believe the stupidity of these sorts of excuses. I don't know if you've ever actually played rugby, maybe not, but minor stuff like jersey pulling goes on all the time. If they're caught they get penalised, if missed then too bad. I'm sure Botha pulls jerseys and whatever all day long. If players start head butting the opposition every time they get a bit miffed they deserve everything they get.
Anybody wanting "justice for Bakkies", it's ok, he got it.
Can't believe the stupidity of these sorts of excuses. I don't know if you've ever actually played rugby, maybe not, but minor stuff like jersey pulling goes on all the time. If they're caught they get penalised, if missed then too bad. I'm sure Botha pulls jerseys and whatever all day long. If players start head butting the opposition every time they get a bit miffed they deserve everything they get.
Anybody wanting "justice for Bakkies", it's ok, he got it.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 1:31 am
that's not even a free kick in my book, nine weeks is simply revolting. my grandad was right the gays have taken over rugby.
cheyanqui July 12, 2010 2:59 am
My point was that the players (Stringer / Cowan) are clearly engaging in professional fouls.
Ideally, it's on the field, and just a PK from the referee on the pitch.
And yes, pulling a jersey on a player "off the ball" is actually a professional foul. It's one thing to hang onto a guy at a ruck. Entirely another to initiate contact by grabbing the jersey of a passing player.
BTW, I am not asking for "Justice 4 Bakkies" -- he got what he deserved.
Bakkies is a schoolyard bully picking on such famed rugby hard men as Gio Aplon and Jimmy Cowan.
He's the Bryan Marchment of the SANZAR (for you hockey fans)
Maybe, once, just once, Bakkies could give us a clean, 1v1, head-up tackle on a forward -- Jason White-style.
Ideally, it's on the field, and just a PK from the referee on the pitch.
And yes, pulling a jersey on a player "off the ball" is actually a professional foul. It's one thing to hang onto a guy at a ruck. Entirely another to initiate contact by grabbing the jersey of a passing player.
BTW, I am not asking for "Justice 4 Bakkies" -- he got what he deserved.
Bakkies is a schoolyard bully picking on such famed rugby hard men as Gio Aplon and Jimmy Cowan.
He's the Bryan Marchment of the SANZAR (for you hockey fans)
Maybe, once, just once, Bakkies could give us a clean, 1v1, head-up tackle on a forward -- Jason White-style.
Jono July 12, 2010 3:36 am
It's just a penalty cheyanqui, of course it's jsut a penalty.
No one would ever get yellow carded for what Cowan did (a penalty is deserved but it got missed, so what, shit happens, penalties get missed all the time, you just get on with it).
It'd be absolute insanity if Cowan got anything mroe than a penalty for tugging the jumper.
Form Botha to head but him like that is insane and reflection of how ill disciplined he is.
The truth is, Cowan was fine and now Botha is banned, so who's the smart one?
Botha is a dumb bastard, who is a liability when he does this shit.
No discipline, discipline is a feature of a great player, Botha has none.
No one would ever get yellow carded for what Cowan did (a penalty is deserved but it got missed, so what, shit happens, penalties get missed all the time, you just get on with it).
It'd be absolute insanity if Cowan got anything mroe than a penalty for tugging the jumper.
Form Botha to head but him like that is insane and reflection of how ill disciplined he is.
The truth is, Cowan was fine and now Botha is banned, so who's the smart one?
Botha is a dumb bastard, who is a liability when he does this shit.
No discipline, discipline is a feature of a great player, Botha has none.
Reggie July 12, 2010 3:51 am
@Madflyhalf
Oh I get it - when a SA player head butts an opponent because he was "frustrated" after about 30 seconds of the game, that's why you hate the All Blacks. Brilliant!
@Schnabel said...Bakkies gave him a little reminder not to be a cheater. Pity he got caught.
Bakkies got yet another reminder not to behave like a cheap thug. Pity it never sinks in.
Oh I get it - when a SA player head butts an opponent because he was "frustrated" after about 30 seconds of the game, that's why you hate the All Blacks. Brilliant!
@Schnabel said...Bakkies gave him a little reminder not to be a cheater. Pity he got caught.
Bakkies got yet another reminder not to behave like a cheap thug. Pity it never sinks in.
Brian July 12, 2010 5:27 am
I think what people are failing to see...Botha got caught...jimmy didn't...so the foul was never legit on him and botha just was being his typical self and not controling his emotions on the field,that was a disgrace and he shouldn't be allowed to play for the rest of the tri nations!So good job citing commission!
Jeremy July 12, 2010 5:40 am
"that's not even a free kick in my book, nine weeks is simply revolting. my grandad was right the gays have taken over rugby."
I wish you and your granddad both get rabbit-punched while playing boxing, spend 1 month in hospital and have to share a room with gay dudes.
I wish you and your granddad both get rabbit-punched while playing boxing, spend 1 month in hospital and have to share a room with gay dudes.
miguel July 12, 2010 6:15 am
botha acted dangerously and his history the ban is more than fair.(perhaps a bit generous)
@madflyhalf
it would be nice if refs caught all indiscretions, but part of rugby is that human element that is ref. he won't catch everything and his law interpretations are what players have to play to. stuff like entering the side, holding on, throwing the ball away, and not throwing straight ARE all part of the game. when they're not noticed or deemed acceptable by the ref its allowed, but when the ref picks up on it and deems it be an offense, there are sanctions of penalties/free kicks. thats how the game works. everyone who ever plays has committed offences both on purpose to see what they can get away with or through error.
Whats NOT part of the game are violent off the ball acts like this. give someone a slight shove off the ball-whatever, if botha had knocked him down "accidently" as he was getting off, then fine. but this is an unecessary and dangerous act.
botha should have shown more restraint, just as heaslip should have. mccaw and cowan played the game pushing the limits of the law as all rugby players do. botha and heaslip jumped over any limits of the law and took the game into disrepute.
Lets also address the issue of cheating quickly using examples:
mccaw- commits many infringements at the ruck. not punished as often as he should be, but that is because he is intelligent enough to get on the right side of ref's interpretations.
breaks rules, but not a cheat.
botha- gets into physical confrontations with players off the ball, accused of questionable ruck tactics and many more incidents that went uncited. f
like mccaw at rucks play what you can while you can. a violent player but not a cheat.
dean richards/tom williams- bloodgate- enough said.
thats the real definition of cheating.
@madflyhalf
it would be nice if refs caught all indiscretions, but part of rugby is that human element that is ref. he won't catch everything and his law interpretations are what players have to play to. stuff like entering the side, holding on, throwing the ball away, and not throwing straight ARE all part of the game. when they're not noticed or deemed acceptable by the ref its allowed, but when the ref picks up on it and deems it be an offense, there are sanctions of penalties/free kicks. thats how the game works. everyone who ever plays has committed offences both on purpose to see what they can get away with or through error.
Whats NOT part of the game are violent off the ball acts like this. give someone a slight shove off the ball-whatever, if botha had knocked him down "accidently" as he was getting off, then fine. but this is an unecessary and dangerous act.
botha should have shown more restraint, just as heaslip should have. mccaw and cowan played the game pushing the limits of the law as all rugby players do. botha and heaslip jumped over any limits of the law and took the game into disrepute.
Lets also address the issue of cheating quickly using examples:
mccaw- commits many infringements at the ruck. not punished as often as he should be, but that is because he is intelligent enough to get on the right side of ref's interpretations.
breaks rules, but not a cheat.
botha- gets into physical confrontations with players off the ball, accused of questionable ruck tactics and many more incidents that went uncited. f
like mccaw at rucks play what you can while you can. a violent player but not a cheat.
dean richards/tom williams- bloodgate- enough said.
thats the real definition of cheating.
Nick July 12, 2010 8:38 am
I think that's fair considering his record.
In fairness to Bakkies there really isn't anything underhand with the majority of stuff he does, it's hardly hidden, the guy just seems to get the red mist and go for it. He's got to be careful though, Roussouw and Bekker are upping there game and there is no doubt that 10 of the AB's points are down to Botha/s lack of composure.
All Blacks are looking good, set piece has really come together and a lot of the players seemed to be getting really stuck in. Donnelly had a great game as did Thorn and Mealamu. Was good to see Weepu coming of the bench. Whats the deal with Leonard at the moment?
Just in regards to the AB team for the world cup next year is there any chance of Heyman/Kelleher or Sommerville getting back in the squad or are their AB days over.
Last but not least Butch James, what an idiot. Is there a time he's on the field and not being warned by the ref?
In fairness to Bakkies there really isn't anything underhand with the majority of stuff he does, it's hardly hidden, the guy just seems to get the red mist and go for it. He's got to be careful though, Roussouw and Bekker are upping there game and there is no doubt that 10 of the AB's points are down to Botha/s lack of composure.
All Blacks are looking good, set piece has really come together and a lot of the players seemed to be getting really stuck in. Donnelly had a great game as did Thorn and Mealamu. Was good to see Weepu coming of the bench. Whats the deal with Leonard at the moment?
Just in regards to the AB team for the world cup next year is there any chance of Heyman/Kelleher or Sommerville getting back in the squad or are their AB days over.
Last but not least Butch James, what an idiot. Is there a time he's on the field and not being warned by the ref?
Andy July 12, 2010 9:03 am
A headbutt to the back of the head on a guy half your size. He's a coward and a pussy. He did a flying headbutt on a smaller guy the other day who again wasn't in a position to defend himself or even expecting it. Get rid of him until he grows a pair of balls.
BOOMER July 12, 2010 9:14 am
darrentT
I don't know if YOU have ever played rugby but if a small scrummy pulled my jersey if I was running after the ball I would floor the small poof right there and then.
I don't know if YOU have ever played rugby but if a small scrummy pulled my jersey if I was running after the ball I would floor the small poof right there and then.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 9:32 am
I think what bakkies did was ok. Nothing wrong with it at all. Should have more of it in the game. Liven it up a bit
Martin
Martin
Benson July 12, 2010 10:07 am
^ Yeah, lets encourage head butting in rugby. Nice one Martin.
I hope we don't see Bakkies playing for the Boks again. He doesn't deserve too. He's a disgrace to our country.
I hope we don't see Bakkies playing for the Boks again. He doesn't deserve too. He's a disgrace to our country.
Gavin July 12, 2010 10:10 am
Boomer, are you Bakkies Botha in disguise? Your point sounds as intelligent as one he might make.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 10:34 am
Theres some Justice for you Bakkies, 9 weeks to think about that decision... Typical Springbok play, dirty team, always have been, always will be.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 10:34 am
Can we please have the curry cup highlights put up here on rugby dump?
Anonymous July 12, 2010 10:37 am
typical stuff! South Africa are the dirtiest rugby team out there....always looking to ruffle the other teams feathers in the opening minutes of a test!
Fitzgerald was on the receiving end of an eye gouging this time last year!!!!!
Fitzgerald was on the receiving end of an eye gouging this time last year!!!!!
Laz July 12, 2010 10:44 am
Yeah, and the Irish are saints, Danny Grewcock is smart, and Tana Umaga never dumped anyone on their head.
Mike July 12, 2010 11:20 am
Laz, you are right, every team has guys who let the side down. Do the Boks have more than other sides? That's whole other debate I guess. But hopefully we'll hear no more about how Bakkies is harshly treated and how he is really religious off the pitch...(although why someone thought that was a good defence of him, I've no idea - Osama Bin Laden is quite religious too)
Sodastream July 12, 2010 11:21 am
"I don't know if YOU have ever played rugby but if a small scrummy pulled my jersey if I was running after the ball I would floor the small poof right there and then."
And you'd get banned while a certain small scrummy would be laughing about your foolishness.
And you'd get banned while a certain small scrummy would be laughing about your foolishness.
Nick July 12, 2010 11:30 am
Danny Grewcock, the NH Botha?
I distinctly remember an Irish flanker getting a long holiday after a gouging incident just before the Lions tour, so lets not start slinging mud.
I distinctly remember an Irish flanker getting a long holiday after a gouging incident just before the Lions tour, so lets not start slinging mud.
Madflyhalf July 12, 2010 11:30 am
No no no, please I didn't want to justify anyone!
Botha is a dick it's the first sentence in my first post!
Botha and Heaslip got their well deserved ban!
But I was just trying to point where and how these accident occurs!
There is always something that happens "before" which is NOT in the law!
I apologise, but I didn't want to justify Botha headbutt or Heaslip knee!
I just ask a little more consistence by refs in the matches, I know very well that it's difficult to referee such a sport, but I can't realize how 6 eyes + a TMO cannot see 2 so obvious fouls!
Prevent isn't better than heal?
Botha is a dick it's the first sentence in my first post!
Botha and Heaslip got their well deserved ban!
But I was just trying to point where and how these accident occurs!
There is always something that happens "before" which is NOT in the law!
I apologise, but I didn't want to justify Botha headbutt or Heaslip knee!
I just ask a little more consistence by refs in the matches, I know very well that it's difficult to referee such a sport, but I can't realize how 6 eyes + a TMO cannot see 2 so obvious fouls!
Prevent isn't better than heal?
Anonymous July 12, 2010 12:26 pm
The Springboks have previous for trying to injure players in the opening minutes of big tests don't they?
Matfield forearming Kelleher, Burger gouging Fitzgerald, Botha on the weekend. They were doing it to Wilkinson in Twickenham years back too, it must come from the coaching staff.
Matfield forearming Kelleher, Burger gouging Fitzgerald, Botha on the weekend. They were doing it to Wilkinson in Twickenham years back too, it must come from the coaching staff.
martina July 12, 2010 12:45 pm
Both of the team should be banned and punished for nine and a half weeks for their empty catchers with ten candidates on them scrum cases.
On the other side I have seen real Red Eye cases forwarded to the next step for justice.
On the other side I have seen real Red Eye cases forwarded to the next step for justice.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 12:58 pm
Jimmy Cowan is a cheater he had what he deserved, well done Botha.
Kearney for the benc July 12, 2010 1:59 pm
i simply can't understand why these professional players,playing at the highest level in the best sport in the world,commit such cowardly acts.this headbutt was pretty bad,but eye-gouging makes me sick to my stomach.if it continues,someone someday is going to be blinded,but i hope it has been cut out before that.why cant these players,if feeling agrieved,simply sort it out with a niceh ,hard ruck cleanout,or at a least an old-fashioned puck in the gob?every player,official,and fan watching would have a lot more respect for the player,rather than writing about how ashamed they are of them.
rdg06 July 12, 2010 2:26 pm
9 weeks ?
It is a joke
He should get 90 weeks. To leave him time to understand what happens in his head...
It is a joke
He should get 90 weeks. To leave him time to understand what happens in his head...
rdg06 July 12, 2010 2:34 pm
What about Dupuy and his 23 weeks last april ??
You guys think it is tough ?
You guys think it is tough ?
firehouse July 12, 2010 3:08 pm
I think Botha needs to get the axe...he's simply too much of a pariah to keep on the team; I get that he and Matfield have a great pairing, but the guy gets suspended, plays a game, gets suspended, plays part of a game, gets suspended...rinse and repeat. The Springboks have too much talent to keep this goon on the national side.
Anonymous July 12, 2010 3:46 pm
Reminds me of when Troncon got the one month ban for cold-cocking Stringer. Stringer grabbed his jersey first.
These players (Cowan, Stringer) should at least get something -- a yellow if the ref catches it. A citing post-match by the commissioner. How can they possibly review the tape of Troncon / Botha and not see the professional foul committed by the other player?
Perhaps not suspension the first go around for a Stringer / Cowan, but at least put it into their record.
Then the next time they come up for something (Cowan at least doesn't have a clean slate; cannot speak for Stringer), they have priors and perhaps they get a week tacked onto a ban for something else.
Yellow for stringer on that occasion would have been fair if the ref saw it. Troncon's punch was inexcusable though.
Problem with reviewing all these small professional fouls is that every single player does them. Small tugs on jerseys, very slight blocks, little well timed nudges, repositioning the ball when there's a try, etc. You would have a huge number of professional fouls accumulating on each player in each game.
You got something against Stringer? He's a midget. He needs the little tugs here and there to keep up. And he's good at it. Other players aren't as good. Blame the refs in the matches for not seeing it.
-KG
These players (Cowan, Stringer) should at least get something -- a yellow if the ref catches it. A citing post-match by the commissioner. How can they possibly review the tape of Troncon / Botha and not see the professional foul committed by the other player?
Perhaps not suspension the first go around for a Stringer / Cowan, but at least put it into their record.
Then the next time they come up for something (Cowan at least doesn't have a clean slate; cannot speak for Stringer), they have priors and perhaps they get a week tacked onto a ban for something else.
Yellow for stringer on that occasion would have been fair if the ref saw it. Troncon's punch was inexcusable though.
Problem with reviewing all these small professional fouls is that every single player does them. Small tugs on jerseys, very slight blocks, little well timed nudges, repositioning the ball when there's a try, etc. You would have a huge number of professional fouls accumulating on each player in each game.
You got something against Stringer? He's a midget. He needs the little tugs here and there to keep up. And he's good at it. Other players aren't as good. Blame the refs in the matches for not seeing it.
-KG
9 weeks is Justice 4 July 12, 2010 4:07 pm
To above, don't be ridiculous. Pulling a jersey is a minor offence and a penalty that's all depending on where it is on the pitch could be a yellow or penalty try. Head butting someone on the back of the head in retaliation is everso slightly different. And deserves a lengthy ban. Come on man wake up.
Joost July 12, 2010 4:33 pm
How long will it take to Pieter de Villiers to understand that Botha is a thug, that should be expelled from the Springboks, and that he's got enough depth in his squad to let this goon still play? Make room for Andries bekker and Danie Rossouw, far more technical, disciplined, and honorable players.
Seeing Botha play makes me sick. Only he knows what goes in his mind... Stupid player.
Seeing Botha play makes me sick. Only he knows what goes in his mind... Stupid player.
dutchrugbyplayer July 12, 2010 4:35 pm
@madflyhalf
I understand your point and to some point agree with you. 2 things:
1)I believe the TMO only looks at infringements (and foul play) when he has to decide whether a try has been scored
2) and lets count our blessings that we don't have the same idiotic refereeing as in football (soccer) where the refs makes some of the most inportant decisions purely based on the body-language of the so called 'victim'.
And to the rest that think this kind of behaviour is part of rugby: if you search on the BBC website you can find an article about a guy that was left blind at one eye because of eye-gouging. So much for ballet mr De Villiers...
I understand your point and to some point agree with you. 2 things:
1)I believe the TMO only looks at infringements (and foul play) when he has to decide whether a try has been scored
2) and lets count our blessings that we don't have the same idiotic refereeing as in football (soccer) where the refs makes some of the most inportant decisions purely based on the body-language of the so called 'victim'.
And to the rest that think this kind of behaviour is part of rugby: if you search on the BBC website you can find an article about a guy that was left blind at one eye because of eye-gouging. So much for ballet mr De Villiers...
rosh July 12, 2010 5:41 pm
i am a total all blacks fan but cowan has had it coming to him
jay July 12, 2010 5:41 pm
Botha is over protected or what ?
The guy has built a really nice resume when it comes to doing stoopid shite... Thankgod he is not french or else he would have gotten 5 years...
Reminds of Cudmore, who has the same kind of resume (tho not as good as Botha), well ... last time he did sthg just as stoopid... did he get 5 weeks only ? Nope the IRB reclassified the incident stating that he had a heavy past.... and gave him a more that that.
The IRB is amazing...
The guy has built a really nice resume when it comes to doing stoopid shite... Thankgod he is not french or else he would have gotten 5 years...
Reminds of Cudmore, who has the same kind of resume (tho not as good as Botha), well ... last time he did sthg just as stoopid... did he get 5 weeks only ? Nope the IRB reclassified the incident stating that he had a heavy past.... and gave him a more that that.
The IRB is amazing...
Anonymous July 12, 2010 6:01 pm
To above, don't be ridiculous. Pulling a jersey is a minor offence and a penalty that's all depending on where it is on the pitch could be a yellow or penalty try. Head butting someone on the back of the head in retaliation is everso slightly different. And deserves a lengthy ban. Come on man wake up.
I didn't compare a tug on the jersey to a headbutt. That headbutt clearly deserved a ban.
And I was saying, in response to what I quoted, that reviewing all small professional fouls in a game would be ridiculous.
I didn't compare a tug on the jersey to a headbutt. That headbutt clearly deserved a ban.
And I was saying, in response to what I quoted, that reviewing all small professional fouls in a game would be ridiculous.
H July 12, 2010 8:52 pm
A kid got blinded playing in Maidstone is what I think someone's talking about. To think, that guy wont see again in one eye but the other guy will play again. Its injust. They're not just poking TT balls they're someone's f*cking eyes.
Anyway.. someone said 6 eyes and the TMO didnt spot it.. well the officials arent so much as chameleons more human so their eyes work together.. more like 3 sets and the TMO doesnt spot this stuff.
What is the ref meant to watch? Everything behind the ball? Ofc not he keeps up with play. Imagine if he'd caught Botha but something worse happened with the ball everyone would be crying that he didnt keep up with play.
Until one of us has refereed an international game, then we stand ground to comment on the refereeing so until then justice was served perfectly (except the penalty against Cowan)
Anyway.. someone said 6 eyes and the TMO didnt spot it.. well the officials arent so much as chameleons more human so their eyes work together.. more like 3 sets and the TMO doesnt spot this stuff.
What is the ref meant to watch? Everything behind the ball? Ofc not he keeps up with play. Imagine if he'd caught Botha but something worse happened with the ball everyone would be crying that he didnt keep up with play.
Until one of us has refereed an international game, then we stand ground to comment on the refereeing so until then justice was served perfectly (except the penalty against Cowan)
Cymru Rugby League July 12, 2010 9:59 pm
Ditry boks as usual,not the first time this uneducated fool has intentionally been caught with dirty play. Adam Jones' shoulder on the lions tour? and now this, players like this should face a ridiculous fine as well as a lengthy ban. 9 months? what a joke, just shows how leniant rugby is becoming with regards to punishing players. Never liked him and cannot wait until he retires
Anonymous July 12, 2010 10:11 pm
"9 months? what a joke"
You'll be even more unhappy to know that it was actually nine weeks, not nine months
You'll be even more unhappy to know that it was actually nine weeks, not nine months
I am the walrus July 13, 2010 12:42 am
That was disgusting.
Bakkies headbutt was bad too.
Bakkies headbutt was bad too.
Anonymous July 13, 2010 2:21 am
Have you ever noticed that Botha never picks on guys his own size, he's a fuckin classic bully, and I'd love to seem him try this shit with someone like Thorn or O'Connell.
Laz July 13, 2010 8:30 am
^ you've obviously never watched Currie Cup or much Super 14. It's just that when he's been suspended recently, it's involved smaller guys. Often that sways the decision too. If his clearout a few months back was on Danie Rossouw, not Gio Aplon, I doubt anyone would have blinked.
Still, what a nut doing this headbutt. Anger Management classes are calling. I hope he doesn't play for the Boks again.
Still, what a nut doing this headbutt. Anger Management classes are calling. I hope he doesn't play for the Boks again.
Botha is a fool July 13, 2010 9:05 am
I don't think Botha has the balls to attempt one of those clear outs on someone his own size. So noone would bat an eyelid because it would never happen.
Anonymous July 13, 2010 9:16 am
When I read this ,I just hear perfect self controlled people making judgements on others.So sad .Wake up everyone especially those that play rugby.And those who dont or never have, keep your words to your self.
Mike July 13, 2010 11:41 am
^ and when I read stuff like that, I think of a guy who thinks Botha should be allowed attack anyone he wants any time he wants.
Disco July 13, 2010 12:41 pm
I think a player with Botha's record should undergo rigourous psychiatric examinations in order to determine whether he is mentally fit to play a team contact sport at any level. He appears incapable of suppressing a natural desire to seriously harm opponents and for me, that's something that should be addressed by a professional and until deemed 'safe', he should be declared unfit to play by a medical professional. Any shrink who'd watched Botha's last 4 sadistic onfield incidents (the result of which are clearly to the detriment of his own team moreso than the agressed player) would deem the man unfit to work under stress of any kind.
The man needs to take a long break in a monastery in Nepal, in my (amateur) opinion. What about Grewcock, Dupuy, Attoub, Richard Low and any other psychos from the past? Sure, sit them all down with a shrink next time they step over that easily distinguishable mark between wreckless, foul play and the sick intention to harm opponents outside the limits of the Law. Rugby would be safer and better for it.
Sonny Bill Williams would eat him for breakfast.
The man needs to take a long break in a monastery in Nepal, in my (amateur) opinion. What about Grewcock, Dupuy, Attoub, Richard Low and any other psychos from the past? Sure, sit them all down with a shrink next time they step over that easily distinguishable mark between wreckless, foul play and the sick intention to harm opponents outside the limits of the Law. Rugby would be safer and better for it.
Sonny Bill Williams would eat him for breakfast.
caetano July 13, 2010 3:44 pm
Anonymous said...
Jimmy Cowan is a cheater he had what he deserved, well done Botha.
You're right; I wouldn't call Cowan a "cheater", but rather an annoying little shit (makes sense, since he's a scrumhalf) and he definitely deserved it. But Botha is a big dumb idiot and deserved a ban. He also deserves to be looked over by PdV for future test matches. Instead, he is always there to defend Botha's actions, and Botha remains one of the highest paid players in SA rugby. What the hell...even John Smit (who is a class act) has some things to say about Botha's stupid loss of self-control.
Jimmy Cowan is a cheater he had what he deserved, well done Botha.
You're right; I wouldn't call Cowan a "cheater", but rather an annoying little shit (makes sense, since he's a scrumhalf) and he definitely deserved it. But Botha is a big dumb idiot and deserved a ban. He also deserves to be looked over by PdV for future test matches. Instead, he is always there to defend Botha's actions, and Botha remains one of the highest paid players in SA rugby. What the hell...even John Smit (who is a class act) has some things to say about Botha's stupid loss of self-control.
Mike July 13, 2010 4:16 pm
@Caetano - He definitely deserved to be head-butted from behind? No way. He deserved to have a penalty awarded against him, that's it, and the officials missed it. Do you think that Richie McCaw deserved Heaslip's failed attempt to knee him in the head? Where do you draw the line?
Anonymous July 13, 2010 8:53 pm
I thought the throat grabbing by James was worth a mention too, but I guess strangulation is okay. Love the way the Boks play rugby! Eyegouging or earbiting for the 2nd test?
miguel July 14, 2010 4:06 am
botha might be a thug ( i don't think he is, but he sure pushes it) but dont call him a bully.
look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ0_L9EjdCk
that's botha smashing ben kay out of a ruck in the world cup final right in front of Allan Roland and who gets penalized? Kay. Rolland thought there was nothing wrong, just a good hard cleanout. and thats what happened with Adam jones(the position the lions players and staff took). just goes to show that botha will tangle with guys his own size and the truth is he probably would have done the same to any forward and probably will again sadly.
also this clip shows botha using his rough clean out technique in front of the ref and being rewarded for it. nearly everyone who matters in world rugby saw it and i don't remember any comments on it. if it was a dangerous issue it should have been brought up instead of letting the guy use it for 2 more years and giving him a ban.
doesn't excuse the head butt but lets acknowledge them as seperate things. we don't even know what it was, either botha seeing red and just launching himself, or seeing a chance to make it look like an accident and take the dirty option( i think it was the later)
he thought he could cover it up with momentum, just as some guys(probably many on this board) drop a knee when falling, or use a slight fist when wrapping up. i'm not condoning it, just saying its out there.
View Video
look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ0_L9EjdCk
that's botha smashing ben kay out of a ruck in the world cup final right in front of Allan Roland and who gets penalized? Kay. Rolland thought there was nothing wrong, just a good hard cleanout. and thats what happened with Adam jones(the position the lions players and staff took). just goes to show that botha will tangle with guys his own size and the truth is he probably would have done the same to any forward and probably will again sadly.
also this clip shows botha using his rough clean out technique in front of the ref and being rewarded for it. nearly everyone who matters in world rugby saw it and i don't remember any comments on it. if it was a dangerous issue it should have been brought up instead of letting the guy use it for 2 more years and giving him a ban.
doesn't excuse the head butt but lets acknowledge them as seperate things. we don't even know what it was, either botha seeing red and just launching himself, or seeing a chance to make it look like an accident and take the dirty option( i think it was the later)
he thought he could cover it up with momentum, just as some guys(probably many on this board) drop a knee when falling, or use a slight fist when wrapping up. i'm not condoning it, just saying its out there.
View Video
Andrew July 14, 2010 5:57 am
I am a die Hard Bok fan.
But this is just wrong.
Now Rugby is a contact sport, we all know that and I am all for and understand an enforcers role on the pitch, I have done it many a time myself.
But Bakkies is starting to become a liability, it is going to become another Butch James senario where everytime he walks onto the pitch the refs are going to watch him like a hawk.
And retaliation like that in the open is a disgrace to the Game.
But this is just wrong.
Now Rugby is a contact sport, we all know that and I am all for and understand an enforcers role on the pitch, I have done it many a time myself.
But Bakkies is starting to become a liability, it is going to become another Butch James senario where everytime he walks onto the pitch the refs are going to watch him like a hawk.
And retaliation like that in the open is a disgrace to the Game.
Scotsdale July 14, 2010 8:32 am
Well said Miguel. People say he is a bully and should pick on someone his own size. That's pretty bloody difficult when there's maybe 2 guys out of 15 who would be close his own size!
The clearouts on Ben Kay & Adam Jones were both fine. The clearout on Aplon recently was unfortunate.
The headbutt is just stupid though, and he is becoming a serious liability.
The clearouts on Ben Kay & Adam Jones were both fine. The clearout on Aplon recently was unfortunate.
The headbutt is just stupid though, and he is becoming a serious liability.
Mike July 14, 2010 9:45 am
Scotsdale - 'The cleanout on Aplon was unfortunate'? Like it was just bad luck?? In fact, it was very good luck - good luck that Botha didn't cripple Aplon with his ridiculous attack. We all know rugby can be violent, but there are plenty of ways to be aggressive within the rules - rules that are designed to protect the players as much as possible in a collision sport.
Flooz July 14, 2010 7:26 pm
I find that botha is a great fighter but he is too often at the limit of the fairplay.
but what i really don't understand is the difference of sanctions between nations, even if the level of santions are different from NH to SH
When i see that some french players are banned for 6 months to 1 year for eye-gouge suspections and when u see the same eye gouge attacks or other buttheads, stamp on the head from other nations. I am really surprised with this indulgence with a recidivist like Botha
Seem that u must have successions of eye-gouge, buttheads, flannery tackles before to decide ogf huge bans. I bet what u want that the next big sanction "for the example" will be on a froggy.
signed by a french parano :)
but what i really don't understand is the difference of sanctions between nations, even if the level of santions are different from NH to SH
When i see that some french players are banned for 6 months to 1 year for eye-gouge suspections and when u see the same eye gouge attacks or other buttheads, stamp on the head from other nations. I am really surprised with this indulgence with a recidivist like Botha
Seem that u must have successions of eye-gouge, buttheads, flannery tackles before to decide ogf huge bans. I bet what u want that the next big sanction "for the example" will be on a froggy.
signed by a french parano :)
Anonymous July 15, 2010 1:37 am
bakkies botha is useless. he's a crap player who doesn't have any impact in the games. he's a dirty player and thats all he's known for. someone like danie russouw is twice the player he is and should be picked ahead of botha everytime. how many times has botha done something like this? doesn't he learn?
"YES WE CAN!" July 15, 2010 10:25 am
i hope to god we dont get to see any of this sort of UFC come 2016 olympics in brazil
mango July 20, 2010 5:59 pm
OK it was an intentional headbutt but not a serious one and he deserved 4 weeks not 9 but he did have extenuating circumstances as the player held him back by the jersey. An idiot for what he did in the heat of the moment but probably not why he did it!!
At least he didn't gouge or bite his opponent as I believe they should be life bans no matter how serious the outcome as they are intentional pre-meditated attacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least he didn't gouge or bite his opponent as I believe they should be life bans no matter how serious the outcome as they are intentional pre-meditated attacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous August 13, 2010 11:50 am
late to the party on this but one statement....... cowardly cheap shot.
Anonymous August 17, 2010 7:12 pm
Late as well. Botha is a an idiot and deserved what he got. Referee and touch judges are idiots for not penalising Cowan - the Blacks are favoured by referees in my opinion, particularly at the ruck. They slow down the ball more than any other team but do not get penalised as much.
Jake August 18, 2010 4:44 pm
I sure wish the refs could be depended on for penalizing players instead of everyone feeling the need to reap vigilante head-butt vengeance.
Anonymous August 25, 2010 11:04 pm
Bakkies Botha is a complete scumbag. any impartial person wud say dat. indeed he is a gud playa bt 2 many suspensions. jimmy cowan headbutt, cheap shot on mortlock, dangerous ruckin on gio aplon , nd questionable ruckin on adam jones.. very short fuse - jus bcoz he got pulled bak he commits a cowardly act 2 a much smaller nd unsuspectin cowan. pathetic
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