Sunday, August 08, 2010
All Black Tony Woodcock's charge on Wallaby Saia Faingaa
All Black prop Tony Woodcock seems to have dodged a bullet this weekend after his charge on Wallaby hooker Saia Faingaa on Saturday. Woodcock not only got off with just a warning, but he wasnt cited after the game either, surprising many.
The Tri Nations has been somewhat of a shambles refereeing wise this year as every match, up until this weekend, has been affected by players being sent from the field. So while it was evident that South African referee Jonathan Kaplan was doing what he could to avoid switching up the numbers, his lenient approach hasnt gone down well.
Woodcocks hit on Faingaa was pretty much a cheap shot as he came in from behind and hit the hooker in the back as he was getting up. Kaplan chose to only give a warning and a penalty, despite the clearout making some of the previous yellow cards weve seen look even more ridiculous than we had thought before.
Faingaa himself played down the incident when asked if he thought it should have been a yellow card for Woodcock.
"Mate, I don't really remember it. That's just part of the game, but yeah, he got me good. I don't know.. I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know. If it was then it was, but I was probably in the wrong place anyway."
New Zealand coach Graham Henry tried to make it seem less severe than it was.
"He just got frustrated. Guys were offside, standing there in the road I guess, and he just removed him. I didn't think it was particularly bad. Goodness me, it's a game of rugby isn't it?"
Woodcock has surprisingly avoided any further sanction from the citing commissioner, so will be on the plane to South Africa with his team. The question now is if Kaplan will be publicly admonished by Paddy OBrien in the same fashion that fellow ref Cobus Wessells was last week.
Former Australian coach Bob Dwyer, never shy to speak his mind, was appalled by Kaplan.
"Under the laws of the game, I don't think he had a choice," said Dwyer.
"It was foul play and therefore a compulsory yellow card. The Australian player was not in the ruck, he had his back to Woodcock. But Woodcock clobbered him and there were no arms used either to suggest a tackle. It was an illegal charge without arms.
"I don't understand how some referees follow the law book but others don't."
Wed got the impression that even if a ref makes a mistake on the field, a citing could take place and dangerous play would be dealt with. That would simply mean an investigation, which doesnt always need to lead to a suspension.
Its surprising then that this wasnt even cited, especially given the events of the past month. What's your take on it?
Time: 01:40
Posted at 10:40 pm | 87 comments
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Viewing 87 comments
creggs08 August 08, 2010 9:42 pm
very lucky not to be given a yellow totally unnescesery!
rehanb August 08, 2010 9:56 pm
I find it quite ironic that Graham Henry said that woodcock "must have been frustrated with guys being offside" when throughout the game as well as previous games the all blacks always have 2-3 players on the "wrong" side of the ruck. Mind you I'm not blaming the all black players, if they can cheat and get away with it, why wouldn't they? the referees need to stop turning a blind eye to it all the time
Kearney for tests August 08, 2010 10:01 pm
I'm starting to think New Zealanders are being given special treatment. I normally think that that sort of stuff is for conspiracy theorists, but no card for an obvious card offence, and no citing whatsoever even though it was stupid and dangerous, and this is after loads of legitimate tackles were given cards in previous weeks?
They should get Steven Seagal in there. "You guys think you're above the law... well you ain't above mine!"
They should get Steven Seagal in there. "You guys think you're above the law... well you ain't above mine!"
Anonymous August 08, 2010 10:07 pm
Is it me or does he not look to be in too much pain til he see's the ref?
Peter de Villiers August 08, 2010 10:11 pm
I've always said that New Zealand are part of a conspiracy. Now you're on my side?
Calling all Aussies, let's get togeteher to stop referees from creating momentum for New Zealand!
Bring your tutus
Calling all Aussies, let's get togeteher to stop referees from creating momentum for New Zealand!
Bring your tutus
Byron Stone August 08, 2010 10:18 pm
Not Kaplan's fault really. A ref cant watch everything in the game. However the citing commissioner should be ashamed. Bakkies does a legitimate clear out and gets a few week ban but Woodcocks goes without punishment.
Gman August 08, 2010 10:28 pm
How can you not think that the AB are given a special treatment? I'm an AB fan but this is ridiculous... Imagine a French player doing that!
miguel August 08, 2010 10:29 pm
conspiracy is a heavy loaded term that is always going to have a negative connatation. however its hard to keep it off your own tounge with o'briens behavior over the past two years and the way the tri nations reffing has unfolded.
how dare henry try to dismiss it. if botha had done that everyone would have been up in arms calling for lenghty suspensions. fainaga wasn't hurt by it, but its a dangerous unnecessary act. woodcock should have been yellow carded and no citing was necessary- in a perfect world where we have a just and reasonable citing system. with the level thats been used this year woodcock definately deserved at least a citing and a ban.
so what does it mean when the citing system cracks down on south africans and aussies but suddenly becomes reasonable and leinent with the all blacks?
its nothing new. the citing system has for years been unfavorable toward the pacific island nations and other level 2 nations, that is obvious enough itself. schalk burger got away with murder last year and it appears that the citing system has gone overboard this year to attempt to compensate for it or they've gone overboard on everyone but have yet to put the pressure on NZ.
anyway you look at it it stinks
how dare henry try to dismiss it. if botha had done that everyone would have been up in arms calling for lenghty suspensions. fainaga wasn't hurt by it, but its a dangerous unnecessary act. woodcock should have been yellow carded and no citing was necessary- in a perfect world where we have a just and reasonable citing system. with the level thats been used this year woodcock definately deserved at least a citing and a ban.
so what does it mean when the citing system cracks down on south africans and aussies but suddenly becomes reasonable and leinent with the all blacks?
its nothing new. the citing system has for years been unfavorable toward the pacific island nations and other level 2 nations, that is obvious enough itself. schalk burger got away with murder last year and it appears that the citing system has gone overboard this year to attempt to compensate for it or they've gone overboard on everyone but have yet to put the pressure on NZ.
anyway you look at it it stinks
Anonymous August 08, 2010 10:33 pm
That was a nice hit, had Faingaa been standing up! I probably would have done the same that Woodcock did only if Faingaa was on his feet cuz tackling a guy who's on his knees is kinda not cool. It was a very dangerous hit which Woodcock is lucky for not getting carded.
TeamCanadaProp August 08, 2010 10:54 pm
The guy's on the wrong side of the ball. was it unnecessary, no. but if you look back 10-15 years, this was the norm. and woodcock didn't really even speed up.... so give the guy a break, it's a contact sport, and you're going to get hit. and faingaa played it up. hits in the upper back aren't that painful.
Mike August 08, 2010 11:23 pm
Should have been a card or a citing. You can see why the Aussies and Bok fans might be annoyed by this - what do the ABs have to do to get a card?
Alexander August 08, 2010 11:37 pm
'must have been frustrated with guys being offside'. NO EXCUSE Graham Henry admit that your player was in the WRONG and stop being so bigoted!
Juggernauter August 09, 2010 12:03 am
All is very weird... I don't know what the All Blacks need to do to get at least a yellow.
Please Refs, SORT IT OUT! If Quade Cooper was suspended for an "illegal tackle", then this can't get away with murder!
Don't spoil the most beautiful of games.
Please Refs, SORT IT OUT! If Quade Cooper was suspended for an "illegal tackle", then this can't get away with murder!
Don't spoil the most beautiful of games.
Blu22 August 09, 2010 12:12 am
looking at the tri nations as a whole, it seems SA and Aus have suffered massively at the hands of refs in comparison to NZ. Botha's headbutt did just as much damage if not less than this, both of Mitchells supposed crimes a week earlier hardly warranted a yellow combined and both Cooper and Fourie are suspended, correct me if im wrong, for similar looking tackles which just a few years ago would have been called a dump tackle, not an illegal tackle. it isnt necessarily NZ's fault, it just seems that refs feel as if the rugby world goes against them if they punish NZ. also look at last weeks game and the reactions of the captains, Elsom gets frustrated and the ref seems to go after him, McCaw stays calm and polite and gets away with murder. this isnt a new thing thats only developed because of the approaching world cup, this has always been the case, just as someone previously mentioned earlier with the harsh treatment routinely dealt to the P.I. players, ironically many of which play in NZ. time to tazer McCaw whenever he approaches a ruck and lies all over the ball, only way to even it up
Rob August 09, 2010 12:40 am
this is getting beyond a joke. Players are getting cited and carded for 100% legal tackles, but this recieves neither despite being a completely illegal cheap shot on a player who's on his knees facing the other way. Ridiculous.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 12:51 am
You have remember a Kiwi is head of Referees - O'Brien. So what do you expect!Will never be fair.
miguel August 09, 2010 1:19 am
@teamcanadaprop
no one is calling for woodcock's head as people were with botha. its just if cooper and fourie got bans, and frank got yellowcarded for their tackles, then why does this get nothing? where is the consistency.
i think most people would be fine to see this yellow carded- because thats what it deserves. not one thing woodcock did was right. didnt use his arms to tackle and certainly wasnt binding into the ruck or hitting a player in the ruck. penalty and because its dangerous and unnecessary- especially at that point in the game, its a logical yellow. and thats it.
if there was a citing a year ago most people would be confused. with the standards the irb are trying to impose its confusing that there's not even a citing. its as if only NZ is above the demands of consistency and thats why people are upset.
no one is calling for woodcock's head as people were with botha. its just if cooper and fourie got bans, and frank got yellowcarded for their tackles, then why does this get nothing? where is the consistency.
i think most people would be fine to see this yellow carded- because thats what it deserves. not one thing woodcock did was right. didnt use his arms to tackle and certainly wasnt binding into the ruck or hitting a player in the ruck. penalty and because its dangerous and unnecessary- especially at that point in the game, its a logical yellow. and thats it.
if there was a citing a year ago most people would be confused. with the standards the irb are trying to impose its confusing that there's not even a citing. its as if only NZ is above the demands of consistency and thats why people are upset.
VictorSoCalRuggger August 09, 2010 1:23 am
so rousouw gets a yellow and a sanzar ban for LIGHTLY kicking someones thigh, and woodcock gets NOTHING for this, there is ofcourse bias!!!!
Anonymous August 09, 2010 2:38 am
The reason he wasn't cited is simple. The citing commissioner is a Kiwi.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 2:55 am
So much unintelligent thinking in here.
"New Zealanders haven't been carded!" Franks was carded the other game for almost nothing.
"The citing commissioner is a Kiwi!" And the ref was South African, so...?
"It was harder than Bakkies' headbutt!" A headbutt isn't an interpretable offense. It's purely illegal. A clearout IS INTERPRETABLE!
"If Bakkies did this they'd be furious!" Sorry to say the benefit of the doubt goes to players who DON'T have a history of skullduggery.
Is the hit totally justifiable? Maybe not. Is it the worst thing in the world? No. Does Faingaa even care? No. Have the Blacks been carded recently? Yes. Less than the others? Sure. Does every team HAVE to be carded AS MUCH as the other teams for there to be fairness present? NO.
Get over it you whiners.
"New Zealanders haven't been carded!" Franks was carded the other game for almost nothing.
"The citing commissioner is a Kiwi!" And the ref was South African, so...?
"It was harder than Bakkies' headbutt!" A headbutt isn't an interpretable offense. It's purely illegal. A clearout IS INTERPRETABLE!
"If Bakkies did this they'd be furious!" Sorry to say the benefit of the doubt goes to players who DON'T have a history of skullduggery.
Is the hit totally justifiable? Maybe not. Is it the worst thing in the world? No. Does Faingaa even care? No. Have the Blacks been carded recently? Yes. Less than the others? Sure. Does every team HAVE to be carded AS MUCH as the other teams for there to be fairness present? NO.
Get over it you whiners.
Steve Fox August 09, 2010 2:56 am
Why is it that if you're the best and luck goes your way, people complain. If you used to be the best and you get unlucky breaks (or deserve them), then everybody else is a cheat. First everyone complains about the Yellows, and then when it's not there, more complaints. Not saying Woodcock didn't deserve it, but that's what happens if the whole world gets upset about yellows, then the ref just doesn't want to give one.
Come on guys, don't be so flat-minded. Every team tries their luck on getting away with murder. some are just better at it. It is about winning after all, and if you don't agree, oh well . . .
Come on guys, don't be so flat-minded. Every team tries their luck on getting away with murder. some are just better at it. It is about winning after all, and if you don't agree, oh well . . .
Nerk August 09, 2010 2:59 am
Guys it seems crazy that up until now everyone has been so upset with all the cards spoiling the tri nations and yet now that a kiwi escapes one you are all vehement about it. If its a case of "I only feel hard done by because quade/bakkies got one and he didn't" then that's fair enough, however I don't think refs should start handing out cards just to even the score from other refs mistakes. My feeling is the only player whose actions justified the punishment was Bakkies. FFS this is rugby and refs should realise that when an otherwise good natured player sees the red mist for the first time in his career (eg quade/woodcock) and does something dumb, then a 3 point punishment is more than enough.
Jimmy August 09, 2010 3:09 am
After the uproar surrounding Botha's clearout, that was perfectly legal except someone got injured, this is ridiculous I can't say the AB's are deliberately getting special treatment but it has certainly turned out that there is one law for them and another for everyone else. Its almost every game of the tri nations so far that an AB player hasn't been carded when they should have, but then to not even cite......
Hi Ho August 09, 2010 3:09 am
I was pissed off as all hell on Saturday night when Woodcock didn't get a card for that, but NZ don't deserve any criticism.
I think it's pretty far fetched that thereis a pro-NZ conspiracy going on.
Unfortunately there is a bigger problem here.... the refs are BLOODY INCOMPETENT!
When the pressure is on in these big games they are just not up to it. All the big decisions these last few weeks have been disgraceful. Unfortunately the current pool of refs are probably the best of a bad bunch so we've got to put up with it.... but Christ their judgement is so consistently impaired!
One thing is for sure though, NZ are a magnificent side at the peak of their powers and a step ahead of the rest of the world. They deserve to be winning and deserve no criticism in my opinion.. good luck to them (though they are going to crash and burn at RWC '11 as per usual).
The Wallabies will beat them soon though.
I think it's pretty far fetched that thereis a pro-NZ conspiracy going on.
Unfortunately there is a bigger problem here.... the refs are BLOODY INCOMPETENT!
When the pressure is on in these big games they are just not up to it. All the big decisions these last few weeks have been disgraceful. Unfortunately the current pool of refs are probably the best of a bad bunch so we've got to put up with it.... but Christ their judgement is so consistently impaired!
One thing is for sure though, NZ are a magnificent side at the peak of their powers and a step ahead of the rest of the world. They deserve to be winning and deserve no criticism in my opinion.. good luck to them (though they are going to crash and burn at RWC '11 as per usual).
The Wallabies will beat them soon though.
Mart August 09, 2010 5:30 am
rehanb
You hit the nail on the head. Henry trying to deflect attention from the number tactic of his team. Every 2nd time Mccaw enters a runck after a tackle or tackle assist it's on the wallabies side??
You hit the nail on the head. Henry trying to deflect attention from the number tactic of his team. Every 2nd time Mccaw enters a runck after a tackle or tackle assist it's on the wallabies side??
FrankyH August 09, 2010 5:56 am
Consistency please. If any South African or Samoan did this, they'd be labelled 'thugs'.. first time offenders or not. Hell if he was French, they would have found some contact with the eye somehow, and banned him for 70 weeks.
Based on what's been happening, it's a mistake by Kaplan to not card him, but how can this not be cited?!
Based on what's been happening, it's a mistake by Kaplan to not card him, but how can this not be cited?!
Simon7 August 09, 2010 5:58 am
Faingaa got hit in the Super 14 in almost identical fashion (must have a target on his back). Does anyone remember if the offender was yellow carded or cited?
Roadpig August 09, 2010 6:07 am
Poor IRB,
Last week, the public was in an outcry, with "too many" yellow/red cards ruining the spectacle of the rugby game. And then, this week, the referee does not hand out a yellow card, in circumstances where it was not clear that a yellow was warranted and in a bid to preserve the integrity of the game, and this time the viewers (or perhaps those primarily from South Africa or Australia) are outraged. Special treatment/conspiracy? ridiculous. Inconsistent? Of course it is, because the IRB has obviously issued recent instructions to only card in absolutely crystal-clear circumstances (this not being the case with the Woodcock incident), thereby recanting on the previous instructions to card anything and everything.
While it makes for humorous reading by an objective observer, the whingers on this site, on about the AB's and McCaw being a cheat, are delusional.
For anyone who thought the refereeing was partial to the AB's on Saturday, you could only have been watching the partisan commentators on Fox Sports who were typically over-zealous Wallaby supporters, and were routinely wrong, and internally inconsistent in their call of the game. Sorry for the rant.
Last week, the public was in an outcry, with "too many" yellow/red cards ruining the spectacle of the rugby game. And then, this week, the referee does not hand out a yellow card, in circumstances where it was not clear that a yellow was warranted and in a bid to preserve the integrity of the game, and this time the viewers (or perhaps those primarily from South Africa or Australia) are outraged. Special treatment/conspiracy? ridiculous. Inconsistent? Of course it is, because the IRB has obviously issued recent instructions to only card in absolutely crystal-clear circumstances (this not being the case with the Woodcock incident), thereby recanting on the previous instructions to card anything and everything.
While it makes for humorous reading by an objective observer, the whingers on this site, on about the AB's and McCaw being a cheat, are delusional.
For anyone who thought the refereeing was partial to the AB's on Saturday, you could only have been watching the partisan commentators on Fox Sports who were typically over-zealous Wallaby supporters, and were routinely wrong, and internally inconsistent in their call of the game. Sorry for the rant.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 6:18 am
Look if O'Brien doesn't intervene, then surely he has to go.
O'Brien is a lousy administrator and god help us if he continues
O'Brien is a lousy administrator and god help us if he continues
miguel August 09, 2010 6:44 am
to all the people who claim that dissenters are whiners let it be clear: consistency is the issue here. we don't like the yellow trend which is cutting down on the game, but its outrageous when this action goes entirely unpunished.
woodcocks action is a straight yellow. its not a dangerous clearout because its not in anyway a clear out. the man is not involved in the ruck for playing the ball. you can't hit him. care got a yellow for this against ireland in 2009 and mumm got a yellow (for the same hit against fainga)this past super 14. theres really no interpretation. there's no need for the act, the player sees red and needs a spell in the bin. without any other incidents there's no need for citing or a ban.
there was no yellow however, and with the trend set this season there should have at least been citing and one match ban. woodcock would have been harddone but it would have been fair. it does no good to complain about the strict rulings OZ and SA players have gotten and then cheer when the AB's get away with unless youre a kiwi fan.
also for the record, I don't think woodcock saw red or thought he was performing a legitimate action. I think he thought he could get away with anything at the ruck(like the refs have led them to believe) and his actions came about from carelessness and slopiness. dangerous reckless acts, even those free from mal intent, deserve bans.
woodcocks action is a straight yellow. its not a dangerous clearout because its not in anyway a clear out. the man is not involved in the ruck for playing the ball. you can't hit him. care got a yellow for this against ireland in 2009 and mumm got a yellow (for the same hit against fainga)this past super 14. theres really no interpretation. there's no need for the act, the player sees red and needs a spell in the bin. without any other incidents there's no need for citing or a ban.
there was no yellow however, and with the trend set this season there should have at least been citing and one match ban. woodcock would have been harddone but it would have been fair. it does no good to complain about the strict rulings OZ and SA players have gotten and then cheer when the AB's get away with unless youre a kiwi fan.
also for the record, I don't think woodcock saw red or thought he was performing a legitimate action. I think he thought he could get away with anything at the ruck(like the refs have led them to believe) and his actions came about from carelessness and slopiness. dangerous reckless acts, even those free from mal intent, deserve bans.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 6:54 am
that is disgusting.. i agree, had this been an islander or south african the all blacks would be throwing a fit!!
i was a big all black fan but the disparity is making me sick..
i was a big all black fan but the disparity is making me sick..
Anonymous August 09, 2010 7:15 am
even the New Zealand commentators say 'its goin to be a yellow', enough said. Citing commision get time to have a look, ref doesnt.
Nerk August 09, 2010 8:08 am
Seriously guys do you hear yourselves?! one minute "cards are killing rugby!!" and then the next "OMG look at woodcock he should be carded and face suspension!" As for attacking Paddy; it's partly thanks to him that we have these interpretations where we've been able to see the fantastic footy on display so far this year but apparently he's a "lousy administrator." Come on lets get a little objectivity instead of jumping on the attack all things kiwi band-wagon. Yes Roussow's yellow was outrageous but does that mean that three weeks later a far more competent ref should card Woodcock to compensate for that? The answer is no. I'm glad they've begun to draw the line on this carding epidemic early because I would hate to see any team lose a player in a knock out match next year for what basically amounts to a rush of blood to the head. PS- to all Australians and South Africans, I know it's hard not to take it personally but please, rather than focussing on this tripe, can we instead talk about how bloody good footy is going to look once the rugby world is completely up to speed on the new interpretations!
Anonymous August 09, 2010 8:13 am
if drew mitchells little push on mccaw was a yellow, than following any reasoning this was a red!
Nerk August 09, 2010 8:15 am
Btw on that note I'm wondering how everyone thinks their team will go at this style of play (and wether they'll buy into it )? I'm thinking France will be all over it, Oz has already shown they've got the ingredients. SA definitely has the players so it's up to the coach for them. I also think contrary to popular belief that England could easily give it a fair shake should they have the inclination. I haven't seen enough of the other teams to weigh in...
Nicko August 09, 2010 8:18 am
@anon thats the point drew's WASN'T a yellow so we shouldn't follow that reasoning at all, the ref mucked up. Save cards for legitimately dangerous tackles and unprovoked fighting.
Benson August 09, 2010 8:34 am
Nerk, with all due respect bud, don't try to downplay what was a clearly dirty piece of play by one of your players.
Yes, we all know how good the AB's are right now. But the fact of the matter is that Woodcock not getting punished for this is ridiculous.
It's very easy for you to now sit back and say 'well done ref', whereas if another player did that to one of yours, you'd also expect him to be dealt with. Fairs fair, and this wasn't.
That said, I'm not about to picket the IRB headquarters.. just trying to make a point :)
Yes, we all know how good the AB's are right now. But the fact of the matter is that Woodcock not getting punished for this is ridiculous.
It's very easy for you to now sit back and say 'well done ref', whereas if another player did that to one of yours, you'd also expect him to be dealt with. Fairs fair, and this wasn't.
That said, I'm not about to picket the IRB headquarters.. just trying to make a point :)
Nerk August 09, 2010 9:00 am
Benson I can truly say that if the shoe was on the other foot I would still feel the same way. I was absolutely pissed off when drew got binned, swearing at the screen and tossing my chips. same with roussow. I hate cards. end of. They leave me short changed and I take them as a personal insult :P I would never wish a card on another team purely because I'm all about the spectacle. I was actually kinda relieved bakkies got away with the headbutt because a) it didn't kill the game b) jimmy's prolly had that coming for a long time, and c) I knew the citing commissioner would get him later. Woodcock was an issue for the citing commissioner, I take the fact that nothing further happened as a sign that the IRB is starting to see the light.
Benson August 09, 2010 9:09 am
Well in all fairness, it wouldn't be right of them to 'see the light' now, halfway through a tournament that has been tarnished with suspensions and cards for other (less violent) incidents.
Setting a precedent and all that..
By your thinking, other players who do similar dirty stuff in the next 3 games should get away with it!
Setting a precedent and all that..
By your thinking, other players who do similar dirty stuff in the next 3 games should get away with it!
Nerk August 09, 2010 9:17 am
Haha I hear ya mate but you gotta start somewhere hey. I'm just so sick of this card talk, I've only ever been carded once, and I punched someone clean in the face and earned that card legit. These players are just being given these cards for free! :P
Bart August 09, 2010 9:18 am
This is worth a (very good) telling off by the ref but since yellow cards have been given for far lighter incidents, the refs and the citing committee have laid down the marker and we are following it (yellow cards for Rossouw and Mitchell were ridiculous). I dont think wed be having this kind of discussion 5 or 10 years ago. Lying on the other side of the ruck or other infringements was dealt with among the players. Let the boys be boys. Cut out the dirty stuff like gouging and seriously dangerous stuff like collapsing scrums but this is a game of rugby at the highest level and the highest intensity. It is played on the edge and beyond but refs have started avoiding even reaching that edge.
The ABs look very good right now and grinding out this win impresses me more than the 2nd half last week against 14 Wallabies. They deserve more respect than some comments show. They are the best side at the moment and that usually goes hand-in-hand with referee-decisions going your way. I remember a few years back that they were deservedly so told not to wine about a ref missing a forward pass (Cardiff 2007, a certain match against France, anyone remember?) and now we non-AB supporters should do the same. It is part of the game, take the setbacks in your stride, give them credit for their results and the way they play the game and demand from our teams that they turn things around next time they are up against New Zealand. Looking forward to seeing the Bokke with Brussouw, Steyn, Smith, Pietersen and du Plessis back taking on this on form AB-side. Hopefully it will be a good, intense and physical encounter with a few beers afterwards.
The ABs look very good right now and grinding out this win impresses me more than the 2nd half last week against 14 Wallabies. They deserve more respect than some comments show. They are the best side at the moment and that usually goes hand-in-hand with referee-decisions going your way. I remember a few years back that they were deservedly so told not to wine about a ref missing a forward pass (Cardiff 2007, a certain match against France, anyone remember?) and now we non-AB supporters should do the same. It is part of the game, take the setbacks in your stride, give them credit for their results and the way they play the game and demand from our teams that they turn things around next time they are up against New Zealand. Looking forward to seeing the Bokke with Brussouw, Steyn, Smith, Pietersen and du Plessis back taking on this on form AB-side. Hopefully it will be a good, intense and physical encounter with a few beers afterwards.
edbok August 09, 2010 9:51 am
The citing commissioner, whoever he is, needs to explain himself.
I'm always willing to give refs some latitude because they only get one look at any incident - even if Kaplan seemed to have a very good view this one. And given what happened to Cobus Wessels, demoted for being too strict last week, you can understand why the ref this week would rather err on the lenient side.
But given the justice handed out in Tri-Nations so far this year, there's absolutely no excuse for not referring a cheap shot like this to the committee for a ruling. Not only was it a cheap shot, and off the ball, but it is also pretty dangerous when the other guy is not braced in any way for the impact.
The conspiracy arguments remain nonsense, but they always begin to sound more reasonable when you have a decision like this that defies any sensible explanation.
I'm always willing to give refs some latitude because they only get one look at any incident - even if Kaplan seemed to have a very good view this one. And given what happened to Cobus Wessels, demoted for being too strict last week, you can understand why the ref this week would rather err on the lenient side.
But given the justice handed out in Tri-Nations so far this year, there's absolutely no excuse for not referring a cheap shot like this to the committee for a ruling. Not only was it a cheap shot, and off the ball, but it is also pretty dangerous when the other guy is not braced in any way for the impact.
The conspiracy arguments remain nonsense, but they always begin to sound more reasonable when you have a decision like this that defies any sensible explanation.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 10:24 am
unsporting in the first part, stops play, and just downright cynical/needless, a talking to and a 10min just to think about what a bloody idiot he's been
Richard August 09, 2010 11:15 am
IMO, it wasn't needed.
But with all the hoo-hah about carding players in recent weeks, this might have abeen a factor.
Also as last weeks ref got "demoted" to video ref this week, a little bit of doubt might have crept into the ref's mind.
And sometimes those hits can be propper stingers, esp if you get hit right inbetween the shoulder blades.
But with all the hoo-hah about carding players in recent weeks, this might have abeen a factor.
Also as last weeks ref got "demoted" to video ref this week, a little bit of doubt might have crept into the ref's mind.
And sometimes those hits can be propper stingers, esp if you get hit right inbetween the shoulder blades.
Flooz August 09, 2010 11:20 am
i'm french and neutral on this case.
just to say that's an obvious mistake from the ref. woodcock deserved a clear yellow for this charge.. i begin to have a lot of doubt about the next RWC. Will it be a "home sweet home" referrin for nz?
just to say that's an obvious mistake from the ref. woodcock deserved a clear yellow for this charge.. i begin to have a lot of doubt about the next RWC. Will it be a "home sweet home" referrin for nz?
NiWiTa August 09, 2010 11:57 am
Hello all - silly, unsporting cheap shot by Woodcock and in light of the twitchy yellow-card hands the refs have demonstrated during this tri-nations it deserved a yellow-card.....A little consistency would be good thanks IRB and I am not one of the NH/English fans that believes in a conspiracy
I don't like to ask for yellow cards either but the whole decision making process driven by IRB is a joke...what is going to happen in the next world-cup..
I don't like to ask for yellow cards either but the whole decision making process driven by IRB is a joke...what is going to happen in the next world-cup..
NiWiTa August 09, 2010 11:59 am
Hey Nerk - thanks for saying England might be in with a shout. As an England supporter I am afraid I can't agree with you :(
We are truly pants as a working team-unit thanks to Johnson. We'll have to rely on trying to get an English Head of Referees soon he he
We are truly pants as a working team-unit thanks to Johnson. We'll have to rely on trying to get an English Head of Referees soon he he
Anonymous August 09, 2010 12:11 pm
Wallabies supporters have a ight to feel hard done by there. Should have been a yellow and a citing
Anonymous August 09, 2010 12:13 pm
WELL WELL WELL looks like the rules apply to everyone unless you wear All Black. Nothings changed.
H August 09, 2010 1:25 pm
Nerk are you reading what people are saying?? Unnecessary yellow cards/bans/penalties are ruining the game (JDV, Quade, Fouree, Whitelock) and unpunished actions are also ruining the game.. We're not saying too many yellows and now we're saying there's not enough its just inconsistent!
Franks - tackles a guy "no arms" - yellow card.
Woodcock - clears faainga not even in ruck already on the ground with no arms - nothing.
Yeah really consistent.
Franks - tackles a guy "no arms" - yellow card.
Woodcock - clears faainga not even in ruck already on the ground with no arms - nothing.
Yeah really consistent.
rosh August 09, 2010 1:56 pm
henry's response biased hahahaha remember jackson for ireland against wales in 2008, same incident yellow card. soo much care on tip tackles from referees, these are just as dangerous. massive all blacks fab but justice needs to be done where needed
Anonymous August 09, 2010 4:47 pm
Equivilent to bakkies thuggery to be honest...no doubt the all blacks are the best in the world by a mile! but come on when a Saffa does something similar they are scum of the rugby world! and still no citing for this, that was just as dangerous and CHEAP!!!!
Toulouse16 August 09, 2010 8:21 pm
I'm French and neutral here and love watching AB playing their best rugby, but I just have one thing to say : Woodcock what a fucking cheap thug you are !
Cheers Bakkies and cheers to all French players !
Cheers Bakkies and cheers to all French players !
olwakachangchang August 09, 2010 8:49 pm
Rugby fans love to whine.
NZ fans after the world cup (wayne barnes)
SA fans (always)
Everyone else (when they are losing i.e. most of the time)
Where is the criticism about Salesi Ma'afu entering rucks from offside all of the time?
The Refs are as bad/good as they have always been, if your looking for players doing things illegally in rugby you will find it. It just doesn't have the elegant simplicity of other sports.
Stop listening to commentators propaganda for a while and just enjoy the game.
NZ fans after the world cup (wayne barnes)
SA fans (always)
Everyone else (when they are losing i.e. most of the time)
Where is the criticism about Salesi Ma'afu entering rucks from offside all of the time?
The Refs are as bad/good as they have always been, if your looking for players doing things illegally in rugby you will find it. It just doesn't have the elegant simplicity of other sports.
Stop listening to commentators propaganda for a while and just enjoy the game.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 10:21 pm
Aussie here. Shit happens. Posting videos of this just encourages people to whinge.
The AB conspiracy is a joke you guys can't seriously believe it.
The AB conspiracy is a joke you guys can't seriously believe it.
Anonymous August 09, 2010 11:15 pm
I would like to see woodcock do that to an islander from the islands! He would've gotten a retaliation he isn't accustomed to.
Thankfully, Ma'afu has been instilled the discipline of the white folks because he refrained from tearing off Woodcock's head.
Thankfully, Ma'afu has been instilled the discipline of the white folks because he refrained from tearing off Woodcock's head.
Joost August 09, 2010 11:37 pm
Anonymous - Its Faingaa, not Ma'afu
Cheers - and well played by Saia
Cheers - and well played by Saia
Jono August 09, 2010 11:40 pm
I'm glad it wasn't given a yellow.
It was a penalty for sure, but it was handled fine.
Penalty and a warning, no problem.
This is the way rugby should be.
You can't give someone a card every single time they break the rules, this is not soccer, it's a tough game.
Penalties for most offences are absolutley fine.
There are too many cards being shown in games these days, it needs to stop.
And I'm an Aussie, so there's no bias.
It was a penalty for sure, but it was handled fine.
Penalty and a warning, no problem.
This is the way rugby should be.
You can't give someone a card every single time they break the rules, this is not soccer, it's a tough game.
Penalties for most offences are absolutley fine.
There are too many cards being shown in games these days, it needs to stop.
And I'm an Aussie, so there's no bias.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 12:19 am
its fairly simple isnt it, in the first 4 games everyone and their dog got up in arms about all the yellow cards being handed out so kaplan was obviously told to be very hesitant about giving cards. its not the all blacks fault.
i think woodcock was frustrated at the wallabies tactic of always having a "lazy man" on the wrong side of the ruck, especially in attack where the wallabies will pick up the ball and run straight at the lazy runner and the gap thats left.
i think woodcock was frustrated at the wallabies tactic of always having a "lazy man" on the wrong side of the ruck, especially in attack where the wallabies will pick up the ball and run straight at the lazy runner and the gap thats left.
B-ROB August 10, 2010 2:28 am
ehh i don't think any malice was behind this he just saw an aussie's backside and took a shot at him for being in the way of the ball,just a bad discipline call on woodcock's part.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 2:40 am
Apart from Tony Woodcock not getting sited which is definitely just because his a all black, if it was bakkies or schalk it would have been 10 weeks. And dont tell me all blacks dont get the good hand of the ref, lets look back at the super 14, Nonu got sited 2 weeks in a row for almost taking guys heads off with shoulder charges and got off scott free both times. Isnt it funny how quade cooper got suspended just long enough so that he would miss both All Black games and Jaque Fourie got suspended just long enough so that he would miss the last game against the all blacks, both key players. The All Blacks are over rated just because the refs make them look good, one cant win a match if you only have 14 players on the field like SA and AUS.They practicly got handed the tri nations by the refs. Im from Argentina and admired the All Blacks but watching the last few games was an insult to rugby and its fans. Some of the comments state that SA and AUS fans are just complainers, but the kiwi's kept on making a big deal about wayne barnes in their world cup loss to France.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 4:46 am
Joost
I was pointing out that ma'afu ran in from a ways away to let woodcock know that his hit wasn't appreciated. If it were in the islands both teams would've been fighting.. lol. Not just a little push from ma'afu.
And yes, Faingaa did a great job in not retaliating also.
I was pointing out that ma'afu ran in from a ways away to let woodcock know that his hit wasn't appreciated. If it were in the islands both teams would've been fighting.. lol. Not just a little push from ma'afu.
And yes, Faingaa did a great job in not retaliating also.
katman August 10, 2010 6:16 am
And to think that Pieter de Villiers had to face a SANZAR hearing for saying what 90% of people seem to be thinking: One set of rules for NZ and another for the rest, suspiciously close to their World Cup...
Anonymous August 10, 2010 7:13 am
I for 1 am glad the game didn`t have any cards. See the way I look at it cards reduce the momentum of a team. Specially when issued early in the game. Now I thing the AB`s have a clear cut bench mark to judge where they are. In their past games they have had the benefit of playing a team that is somewhat underhanded. 15 on 15 the AB`s didn`t look as brilliant as they did the past games. Something I think Henry would be looking at.
Jeremy August 10, 2010 7:49 am
Really surprised that Woodcock did it, don't think I've ever seen him lose his head like that.
Even more surprising was that he wasn't even disciplined off the field.I mean Quade Cooper got TWO WEEKS for something that's like love-tap compared to that.
Even more surprising was that he wasn't even disciplined off the field.I mean Quade Cooper got TWO WEEKS for something that's like love-tap compared to that.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 7:57 am
Faingaa is getting up to go back onside and he is not obstructing the ball either. Cheapshot from Woodcock and he knows it.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 9:10 am
Any Springbok would have got 4 weeks for that. Nobody can disagree. This is a farce.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 9:36 am
Dean Mumm got a yellow card and then suspended for 2 weeks for charging Faingaa in the same way in Super14 earlier this year. Consistency?
As a player I reckon Woodcock was weak as piss. Anthony Faingaa should have run in and knocked his head off.
Perhaps the Wallabies and the Boks can follow Woodcock's example when dealing with ABs lying all over the ball at the breakdown? It is a pity rucking has been banned. No need for refs to keep tacklers away from the ball - the players sort it out themselves.
As a player I reckon Woodcock was weak as piss. Anthony Faingaa should have run in and knocked his head off.
Perhaps the Wallabies and the Boks can follow Woodcock's example when dealing with ABs lying all over the ball at the breakdown? It is a pity rucking has been banned. No need for refs to keep tacklers away from the ball - the players sort it out themselves.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 10:15 am
I'm an AB fan.
Woodcock should've gotten a yellow card BUT didn't because Kaplan has been told not to give yellow cards because too many have been handed out recently.
ITs not a conspiracy, thats rubbish.
Woodcock should've gotten a yellow card BUT didn't because Kaplan has been told not to give yellow cards because too many have been handed out recently.
ITs not a conspiracy, thats rubbish.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 12:00 pm
Wallabies no.3 acting tough... What a tool, learn how to scrum then you can approach the big boys.
Mike August 10, 2010 12:15 pm
Woodcock should've gotten a yellow card BUT didn't because Kaplan has been told not to give yellow cards because too many have been handed out recently.
You could be right there.
You could be right there.
Anonymous August 10, 2010 3:30 pm
Is rucking now an illegal play under IRB laws?
I thought something was missing... Last one I recall was Chris Jack coming off for the All Blacks with his entire jersey torn, with thick red marks across his back... Painful, but the price to pay for lying on the wrong side.
The least Woodcock could've done was drag him onto his side. I've seen Chabal doing it a few times, no problem there.
72
I thought something was missing... Last one I recall was Chris Jack coming off for the All Blacks with his entire jersey torn, with thick red marks across his back... Painful, but the price to pay for lying on the wrong side.
The least Woodcock could've done was drag him onto his side. I've seen Chabal doing it a few times, no problem there.
72
Anonymous August 10, 2010 5:01 pm
First, Woodcock deserved a yellow card. No question.
Second, I was struck by Elsom's actions immediately following this incident. Aside from pointing out the obvious, he made no attempt to influence Jonathan Kaplan's decision to issue a yellow card. This was his opportunity to involve himself and yet - for whatever reason - he decided not to join the discussion (as is his right to do so). It's hard to say why. For what it's worth I think McCaw does this very well.
Second, I was struck by Elsom's actions immediately following this incident. Aside from pointing out the obvious, he made no attempt to influence Jonathan Kaplan's decision to issue a yellow card. This was his opportunity to involve himself and yet - for whatever reason - he decided not to join the discussion (as is his right to do so). It's hard to say why. For what it's worth I think McCaw does this very well.
Hendrick August 10, 2010 10:57 pm
This is complete BS. How did Woodcock not get cited? What he did was belatedly wrong. The Faingaa wasn't even looking at him. The All Blacks are getting favors from somebody. Who are they paying off to not get punishment? If it looks like a duck.....
Hendrick August 10, 2010 11:00 pm
This is complete BS. How did Woodcock not get cited? What he did was belatedly wrong. The Faingaa wasn't even looking at him. The All Blacks are getting favors from somebody. Who are they paying off to not get punishment? If it looks like a duck.....
Tommy August 10, 2010 11:21 pm
It's not the All Blacks fault but some refs do seem to eb in awe of them, as though they can do no wrong.
Then some lunatics like Wayne Barnes go the opposite way and just anhilate them, as though everything they do is wrong.
At the end of the day I'm glad this wasn't a yellow, certainly not a suspension.
I just wish the IRB and the refs had been like this when it came to Cooper and Fourie, both of whom were ridiculously overpunished by the dickheads who run the game.
Then some lunatics like Wayne Barnes go the opposite way and just anhilate them, as though everything they do is wrong.
At the end of the day I'm glad this wasn't a yellow, certainly not a suspension.
I just wish the IRB and the refs had been like this when it came to Cooper and Fourie, both of whom were ridiculously overpunished by the dickheads who run the game.
Anonymous August 11, 2010 1:37 am
The new interpretations were part of the law book the whole time. SANZAR (Andrew Cole, Lyndon Bray and Andre Watson) ensured of these interpretations. O'Brien had nothing to do with it
Anonymous August 12, 2010 11:16 am
This debate is stupid. Only people with an ulterior motive actually thinks this was worth a yellow card. He runs up to Faingaa who is kneeling in an offside position preventing quick ball, stops, then bundles him into the ruck. This 'no arms' rubbish from Dwyer pretty much makes his other observations unreliable. There was nothing illegal about the tackle. Big deal that he was facing the other way. Boxers are allowed to hit fighters who have their backs turned, rugby players are allowed to tackle players who have their backs turned. If you're upright and in the way, expect to be moved. That goes for all teams.
murph August 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Criminals should think about wearing AB jerseys when committing crimes - it makes the wearer both invisible and unaccountable.
Flargh! August 13, 2010 1:41 pm
Silly dangerous nasty play. How he didnt get at least a yellow is beyond me! Another bit of black shirt protection. Not the first time woodcock has done something like that and got away with it! I remember against Ireland in I think was the 2008 November tests? He smacked rory best in the side of the head 50yars of the ball and best was looking in the other direction! He's a decent player but he needs to cut out the cheap shots.
Flargh! August 13, 2010 1:45 pm
Forgot to add there looked to be intent, it's clear on the video he drops his right shoulder and drives into faingaa's back. So a shoulder charge in the back to a player who has no way of protecting himself is not cool.
Anonymous August 14, 2010 9:16 pm
@Anonymous - August 12, 2010 1:16 PM: Who let Woodcock in here?
Gary August 14, 2010 9:26 pm
I don't normally get involved in these but that is one of the worst decisions i have ever seen. He did it right in front of the referee, it wasn't just foul play it was malicious. you only have to look a few vids along to see what spinal injuries can do. How the referee justifies that i do not know.
Anonymous August 17, 2010 7:19 pm
More evidence of referees favouring the All Blacks. Typical Henry comment - Blacks are always in the right, according to him.
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