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Monday, November 08, 2010

Springboks beat Ireland with hard fought win in Dublin

Springboks beat Ireland with hard fought win in Dublin

South Africa hung on against a resurgent Ireland to end a string of defeats in Dublin as they secured a hard fought 23-21 win at the new Aviva Stadium. Wet conditions and a poor crowd turnout made Irelands return to Lansdowne Road anything but memorable.

Missing a whole host of players through injury and one in particular through unavailability, the Springboks were expected to struggle against the home side. It was anything but the case as for large parts the visitors dominated up front, and the Irish errors were uncharacteristically frequent.

Juan Smith scored the first try with a superb break that saw him sprint away from the defence with surprising ease. Morne Steyn chugged away, missing one kick only breaking his run of getting 40-odd in succession and at 23-9 up it looks as though things were in control.

Substitutions changed the games flow for South Africa, while for Ireland the halfback pairing of Ronan OGara and Peter Stringer came on and ignited a comeback that had the disappointing crowd on their feet for the first time in the game.

Ultimately, South Africa hung on for a well deserved win, breaking the Dublin hoodoo with a solid forwards display as they ground out the win in the wet.

"The conditions dictated the way we had to play. It wasn't a day made for the new law interpretations. It was the kind of day to keep the ball close," said Victor Matfield.

OGara, who showed his class when coming on for his 100th test cap, has expressed his dismay at the turnout for the game, where a crowd of only 35 517 turned up.

"At the old Lansdowne Road there was an unbelievable atmosphere, so passionate and driven. We have to get those days back. Theyve been so good to this team and we need them back. We need them more than ever. We miss them," he said.

Tough times and a bizarre ticketing policy have meant that most fans have given these games a miss. "We really need the supporters its because of them that Ireland have been so good for so long," OGara added.

Time: 07:16

Posted at 12:35 pm | 92 comments

Viewing 92 comments

jim November 08, 2010 12:58 pm

o gara = ledgend !!!

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edbok November 08, 2010 1:06 pm

I don't know what someone put in the Bok water, but that was a pretty decent performance on Saturday when you look at the injuries, travel, and everything else that could have explained a loss.

PDV's selection decisions worked out quite well, and the discipline of the team was very good. Pretty sure that between them, Bakkies, Bismarck and Stegmann gave away no penalties. That's nothing short of a miracle.

The conditions obviously helped, but Matfield led that side well and maybe this could turn out to be a much more successful tour than many predicted.

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DaveJ November 08, 2010 1:21 pm

....Kind of helped that Ireland were incredibly shit. Perhaps the main reason the Boks won.

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Flooz November 08, 2010 1:24 pm

Fourth!!!!

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Conor November 08, 2010 1:25 pm

ROG said "At the old Lansdowne Road there was an unbelievable atmosphere, so passionate and driven. We have to get those days back"

Well ROG you'll get those days back when we see those old ticket prices back... The standard of rugby is currently just not justifying the ticket prices.

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Mike November 08, 2010 1:27 pm

Ireland were terrible - a very disappointing showing. You can't come out against a quality team like the Boks - they are always strong, even missing key players - and play like that. In a way, I'm actually not that depressed about it though - I think if we are poor now, we may just be playing well come the World Cup. We were playing great before the last WC and we were terrible during it, so here's hoping...

Well done Boks, deserved win.

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KG November 08, 2010 1:40 pm

Boks deserved the win. It would have been a shame if Ireland had gotten that conversion or a penalty in towards the end. They played like absolute shit. Reddan should be fourth in line for SH (O' Laoire, Boss / Stringer, Reddan). POC was badly needed in the game. Best was pure shit as well. Sorry to say it.

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Paul Gormley November 08, 2010 1:43 pm

That was very hard to watch, in fact extremely painful from an Iish perspective, Declan Kidney may have won five games in a row for that coveted grandslam but the game plan that suited the Iish and indeed the Suth Aricans in 2009 does not suit the game today. The game has moved forward that favours the attacking team which is fine in my opinion we have the backs to cause any backline any problems, the problem is the weather in Dublin on sturday didnt allow the ball to be thrown around. It was quite obvious that South Africa had a dominant pack, the idea was to spread the ball wide and attack them from deep, the problem being when the ball becomes a bar of soap it is very difficult to do. In my opinion Ronan o Garawas the only outhalf that should have started the match for ireland, yes sexton is better with ball in hand and a better defender but the game was crying out for o gara to be kicking to the corners and keep the south africans turning. Irelands lineout the key to much of our ability to compete in the past has deserted us, mainly being the fact that rory best a decent scrummager cannot hit his man with a lineout, the fact that one of the worlds best lineout lifters john jayes wasnt playing and that paul o connell who tormented Matfield last year was gone, with no lineout (best later said that he sometimes felt there was 4 Victor matfields in every lineout) it goes without saying him and bakkies botha are incredible athletes. I want to bring up two points the first being Rob Kearney. The rules of 2009 suited him, the man is well able to catch and kick a ball, in fact hes safe as house normally under the highball the problem with 2010 is that there is less kicking and he poses absolutely no threat with ball in hand, ts baffling to thik that when you have such an effecting counter attacking player this country has produced since Brian o driscoll in keith Earls on the bench. He has an excellent international strike rate and HAS to be our number 15 for the world cup. There can be no doubt that Andrew Trimble has been Irelands star back in the Heineken cup this year. he warrants a start, and im afraid it has to be Gordon Darcy who must go. The man burst onto the scene in 2004 with 2 tries against Scotland. six years later he has 6 tries for his country. I mean 4 tries in 6 years is an absolute shambles, he isnt able to stand out. For the match against New Zealand who by the way werent at there best against England, I would stick Damien Varley at hooker, have cullen or toner alongside Donnacha and seanie o briend in at 7. Reddan who was an absolute disgrace which pains me to say as he went to my seconary school has to be replaced by the best passer of the ball in stringer. However i would stick with Sexton against new zealand as iv highlighted before his attacking and defence are superior to o garas. and have the same backline as started with Earls at fullback and Trimble at centre. Finally the opening of the Aviva stadium has Paralells with when we played France in Croke Park for the First time, the Samoa match will be there tio give the fringe players experience but our guys will be hurting and i predict a ferocious Ireland and theres a chance of an upset. I apologise for the length of this post but thats everything i have to say.

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(u-p)rick November 08, 2010 1:44 pm

Hmmm hang on guys, I know the performance by Ireland was poor, in terms of silly mistakes etc, but when you look at how they played when ROG and stringer etc came on, that was the kind of rugby the NH has been waiting to see!...i mean ROGs kicking was fantastic with pinpoint accuracyok there was some luck of the bounce but when you look at his cross kick and also the bounce for Kearney but as it happens Ireland did not give up and played clever, running rugby, which is in short supply in the NH.

All that being said however I must admit it looked (throughout the game) that SA more or less made the most of Irish mistakes and the irish made the most of the bounce..

One other thing, I was glad to see some use of the boot by Ireland, its one of those things that drives me insane (when any team is playing) when players are slow to move away.yes they might be pinned but a boot on the ass sure makes you jiggle out the way somewhat!!!

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 1:44 pm

I only saw those highlights, but seems to me that even if Aplon scored a pretty neat try, he's directly responsible for both irish ones, isn't he ?

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Victor Forde November 08, 2010 1:46 pm

Well done Boks on a deserved win! Matfield, Smit and the hooker were in a different league against us....

Kidney's strategy in those conditions was moronic and the teams lack of ability to adapt on the field of play is worrying...Reddan had a howler so definitely a different half back combo on the cards. Leadership on the whole was absent, hope this was a glip in attitude! Time will tell

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Conor November 08, 2010 1:53 pm

Meh... Gutted we lost but at the end of the day SA deserved the win. They choked Ireland at the line out and put massive pressure on the scrum. A hell of a lot of dropped balls throughout the game, Ireland might have been able to pull it off if they passed properly. I'd say about 85% of the passes in the first half where either in front of or behind the runner. Ireland where solid in defense which gave me hope. Redden is a joke, how does a second string provincial player end up playing against the Boks? Sickening! Stringer to start and Boss on the bench (or visa versa) DArcy and BOD did nothing in attack. Kearney at fault for the second try Bowe and Redden had the two players covered why you'd drift across is beyond me. Back to Redden what the HELL was he doing passing to Fitzgerald? Facing the wrong way, week pass, everything was wrong with it! Heaslip would of been shot if he was playing in the 3N for not passing it to Fitzgerald, O'Gara was pointing at him and all, very unlucky. That should have been under the posts and 9 minutes left it would have all been to play for.
Kearney needs to be on the bench or dropped there is no point choosing a player that is great under the high ball and has a huge boot if the lineout isn't working. Best ah I just don't think he's up to scratch you saw it there in the highlights not putting his hand on the ball Ferris, Heaslip (and Kirchner) gave Ireland that position (for Kearney's try). Nothing will be answered against Samoa next weekend but V the All Blacks in two weeks the lineup should read:

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Buckley (Based on his performance against the last time round)
4. DOC
5. Ryan
6. Ferris
7. Wallace/O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Boss/Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. DArcy/Trimble
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Fitzgerald

16. Varley
17. Court
18. Toner
19. Wallace/O'Brien
20. Stringer/Boss
21. O'Gara
22. DArcy/Trimble

Can people please stop with the O'Gara-Sexton bullshit. Its stupid, Sexton is a good player and possibly wouldn't have but the kick in for Bowe but defiantly put the pass out for Kearney. O'Gara will be hailed as a hero but SA let their foot of the pedal. The All Blacks will target O'Gara if he plays and they'll rough him up something that he can take but there is a limit we don't want another Lions incident, Sexton is confident and his kicking duties are fully restored and he's playing good. He'll relish playing against them.
Rant over...for now

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 1:56 pm

dont think this has ever come up on RD, but it made me p*ss myself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_M_9c13hM&NR=1

I'll let you watch without giving anything away!

View Video

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 1:56 pm

Ananymous above - Aplon had absolutely nothing to do with the first boks try - at all. Defensive error on reddans part let him in for the second boks try.

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Stuart November 08, 2010 1:56 pm

Quite a lot of (ahem) vigorous rucking by Ireland in the vid. I don't have too much of a problem with it except that I wonder whether there would be more adverse comment if it was done by the visitors. Let's be honest, there would be. Just a neutral's view.

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jm November 08, 2010 2:07 pm

Rugby tickets are no different from any other good. Ireland's economy is terrible. The large number of unsold tickets is a function of the price. There was no atmosphere. Pre-crash attitudes of "charge an arm and leg and they will still come" are gone for the time being.

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(u-p)rick November 08, 2010 2:09 pm

Stuart when i made a comment on the rucking techniques, i merely meant i was glad to see someone using it and not getting called up...its a general statement....

...i mean i wish it was brought back it, you saw how quick those players moved after the boot came in..

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Benson November 08, 2010 2:11 pm

Blaming Aplon for the bounce of the ball for Bowe would be pretty harsh. For the second, Habana knocked it forward thats why it landed and bounced. Not sure how some people can't see that (including the commentators!)

Good win, surprising.. but those changes were uncalled for.

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jm November 08, 2010 2:13 pm

If Ireland had tied or stolen a win it would have been an injustice.....but why oh why didn't Heaslip pass it when he was breaking down the left touchline??....pass to Fitzgerald and it's an easy score.

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edbok November 08, 2010 2:24 pm

Didn't think Aplon was at fault for the second try, for the first he was caught a little in no-man's land by a very well placed kick. But in both cases, a slightly different bounce of the ball and he'd have been perfectly positioned.

One other thought from the match - I thought the Irish lads were very generous the way they let us catch our own up-and-unders.

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 2:25 pm

lambie really reminds of carter in the way he shifts the ball on

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bryn November 08, 2010 2:33 pm

Matfields tackle oh kearney in the dead ball area won that, otherwise the conversion would have been under the sticks

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(u-p)rick November 08, 2010 2:54 pm

Benson, the ref saw it, thats why Habana was yellow carded (or so im lead to believe)got to agree with edbok on that comment about the up and unders, normally Kearney is a damn good high ball player isnt he? And it was all a bit no go in that area, no one seemed to want it and the SA players seemed a bit shocked they got their up and unders back

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The Real November 08, 2010 3:04 pm

Follow @Real_IRFU for new on the ticketing policy. We'll drain you fockers for every last cent you have.

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 3:17 pm

for the Aplon stuff :
yes he got unlucky with Habana touching the ball and making it unpredictable. But when you're defending your try line, and the ball is on the ground, do not gamble on possible bounces. Just dont miss the tackle.

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Benson November 08, 2010 3:23 pm

Watch it again - there was no tackle to be made at that point. He would have had to have run backwards to get in line with kearney, wait for him to get the ball, THEN make the tackle. That's nonsensical. He did the right thing, just missed it as well as got a bad bounce. I fully blame Habana more than Aplon, as its not the first time he's stuffed up like that.

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Von November 08, 2010 3:34 pm

Before I make my comment, a caveat: I'm only judging based on what I've seen in these highlights, haven't seen the whole match.

Anyway, there seemed to be a lot of South Africans rolling around on the wrong side of rucks. Making NO effort to move and not being pinged by the ref either.

A couple of other comments here have already picked up that the Irish got away with a bit of old-school rucking. I don't blame them if there really was as much illegal slowing of ball as it appeared without sanction.

Also, why is the grid-iron style blocking at the end (see last phase of play in the video) allowed? It's blatantly illegal obstruction.

I'm not having a pop at the South Africans, I'm quite sure many/most other teams get away with this all the time. It just looks a particularly blatant example.

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H November 08, 2010 4:07 pm

Gridiron blocking? I see a ruck.

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DJ November 08, 2010 4:25 pm

agree with conor and paul gormley. sexton to start against all blacks as he was already lacking confidence in that match but it could really damage him if hes dropped straight away, even though he probably deserves it. earls at FB though surely?? agree with d'arcy too, has done sweet fa for most of his international career but what about trying out fitzgerald there??

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DJ November 08, 2010 4:35 pm

also, why didnt kearney cut inside for any easy conversion?
donnacha was roaring at him. plenty of cases of leinster men not listening to munster men and taking the right option.
also, why the hell isnt bob casey playing?feckin disgrace!

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Huh!! the 3rd November 08, 2010 4:47 pm

Fitzgearld at 15, Earls at 12.

Not being Sexton's biggest fan, he still has to start the Samoa and NZ games (since Ian Humphries will neve get a look in), but put Stringer inside him. If NZ do what the Boks did then the speed of Stringer's passing gives Sexton a few seconds more which makes all the difference. Get rid of Kearney, D'arcy, Best and possibly David Wallace and bring in Cronin, O'Brien or Leamy.

Backline for Samoa and NZ

9 Stringer
10 Sexton
11 Trimble
12 Earls
13 BOD (not my choice but he ain't getting dropped no matter what)
14 Bowe
15 Fitzgearld.

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Conor November 08, 2010 4:56 pm

Yeah I missed that the first time DJ, Kearney has to be dropped and good point putting Fitzgerald in the centre. Devastating with ball in hand always makes a couple of yards. Stick fitzy in at 12 Earls in a fullback Trimble on the wing with Jonnie Murphy on the bench he's another young(sorta) gun with something to prove and he can play 11,12,13,14 & 15. To Paul Gormley that said Trimble has been "Irelands star back in the Heineken cup this year" couldn't agree more but I wouldn't even stop their Last year V Bath genius! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8qbtSnPUyg

View Video

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Conor November 08, 2010 4:59 pm

@huh Whos is your choice of centres regards what deccie would choose?

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DaveJ November 08, 2010 5:03 pm

@ Huh!!

That's a very decent looking backline...probably exactly as I'd chose it. Finally someone that agrees that Fitz should be playing FB ahead of Kearney. Kearney is shocking, Fitz was immense at FB at the start of the season for Leinster. He says it himself that it's his preferred and natural position. Severely doubt that Fitz would have missed the two tackles to cost Ireland 2 tries. He's possibly the best tackler in the squad along with Drico.

O Brien, Cullen and Casey need to come into the pack. Casey bit will never happen though. Also Healy needs to be dropped. He went down in every single scrum on Saturday, he cannot scrummage at international level and he proves that every time out but continues to get picked and it's an area that we lack international quality players.

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felipe November 08, 2010 5:15 pm

"Can people please stop with the O'Gara-Sexton bullshit."

Conor, no one had "started" with any bullshit until you brought it up. But, on that note, Sexton should not be starting the next game. He probably will, since Kidney's got a hard-on for him, but he played awful last weekend.

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felipe November 08, 2010 5:18 pm

Actually, I take that back. You're right about ROG being targeted by the ABs if he were to start.

So, I guess Sexton should be given the start, but I hope that Kidney has the balls to sub him out this time if he is playing in a rut again.

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felipe November 08, 2010 5:21 pm

I'm not sure that dropping Sexton right away would "damage" him, DJ. ROG got dropped off pretty quickly in favor of Sexton, and it's only made his game better. Any time he comes off the bench, he plays like he's got something to prove. The fact that Sexton has the position "locked" might actually be what's hurting his ambition.

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Paul Gormley November 08, 2010 6:18 pm

I agree with Fitzgerald playing at full back at least hes able to run with the ball, if you remember correctly in the lions fitz and earls were the centres versus western province and were brilliant. But if you also remember Earls got man of the match in the final warm up game playing fullback with alot of south african commentaters saying hes world class, full back is the position where your meant to have license to throw caution to the wind and just go for it, look what carl heymens does from there, kearney simply cant cut it. sorry for bringiing up the darcy thing but he cant be in the starting lineup

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KG November 08, 2010 6:51 pm

"If Ireland had tied or stolen a win it would have been an injustice.....but why oh why didn't Heaslip pass it when he was breaking down the left touchline??....pass to Fitzgerald and it's an easy score."

Looked like he was covered (from my angle anyway). The pass would certainly have increased the chances of scoring though.

Also, I count three penalties between the 71st and 73d minute in front of the Boks' line. Taking into account 1) the time left to play 2) the position on the pitch 3) the number of penalties in such a short time frame, I don't see why a card wasn't awarded to a Bok. Surely you'd have to clamp down after the 3rd professional foul in front of the try line?

Habana's in my opinion was a yellow card on its own, before anyone mentions it. He could have prevented a very possible try.

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KG November 08, 2010 6:53 pm

Forgot to mention, it might have been worthwhile forcing the ball up the middle using the forwards and going for the drop goal at the end instead of kicking it straight to SA.

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Tommo November 08, 2010 7:05 pm

Insightful comment from O'Gara at the end there! If the Irish fans are responsible for the Irish team being "so good for so long" then they've got a lot to answer for! Like, say, the complete absence of a world cup semi final appearance! ha!

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Juggernauter November 08, 2010 7:40 pm

@ Paul Gromley - That's Cedric Heymans mate, Carl Hayman plays prop.

Now to the match. I know D'Arcy is said to form a "solid and experienced centre partnership", but it's been a while since I've seen Gordon perform well on an Ireland shirt. Kidney needs to see that Fitzgerald's got what it takes to trouble defences, besides, hes pretty good at tackling.

The forwards, of course, need a makeover... more pace and skill is desperately needed. Shame O'Connell is injured.

And on the scrum-half topic, I've seriously doubted of Reddan's ability since he got absolutely dumped by Alesana Tuliagui in the GP final playing for Wasps, in 2008. AS said on prior comments, Stringer or Boss should really start.

And Kearney has been on the downside for a while. It's shocking that Earls hasn't replaced him yet, but I hope Kidney understands this must be done.

Cheers

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marshall faulk November 08, 2010 7:40 pm

What else do you expect when your stadium is owned by an insurance company? You expect ticket prices to be cheap??

Regarding Kearney, I think he's a fantastic fullback when his game is on. But when he's known for being able to own the high-ball, and throughout the match, he lost that battle, and if he's not going to play attacking rugby, then I'd say sit him out and stick someone else in there.

Fitzgerald would be fine. It's useless wishing this, but even Carr would've been a good feisty player to have at 15.

Just look to Aplon for how Kearney should've been playing...he was up running lines, hitting rucks, and chasing kicks.

To be fair, the conditions were crap, and the ball hardly ever got through hands out wide before someone knocked it on...(but that's why Kearney should've been running plays in-field...)

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Von November 08, 2010 8:09 pm

H said...
Gridiron blocking? I see a ruck.

At 6:20, there's a ruck, then SA #22 and #1 step round and form a guard to the side of the ruck. They're both way in front of the ball, not bound to anyone else and to the side and in front of the ruck. Preventing any Irish player from coming through an otherwise open space to try and smash one of the half-backs.

As I said before, there's nothing unusual about this.

You see a ruck, I see a ruck, everyone else sees a ruck because this move is done all the time by most teams at all levels.

But it's not legal in the slightest so why's it allowed?

In my opinion, if this area were officiated more strictly you'd see many more sniping runs from the back of rucks as well as some decent hits from defenders having to make the tackle legally instead of just standing there as a deterrent.

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Demosys November 08, 2010 8:32 pm

Irish player change their jersey at the half fime ? o

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fry November 08, 2010 9:04 pm

Yeah, but Von, that happens in every game...all the time...sometimes refs call it, most of the times they don't. It happens every time a scrummie is going to do a clearing box-kick. Forwards hang around the sides of the ruck, feigning a "bind" with a hand on someone's shoulder or back, and end up giving the scrumhalf some breathing room.

There's already enough penalties slowing rugby games down, and while I don't agree with this tactic and would like for it to go away, I would hate for there to be even more whistles blown...

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Third Centre November 08, 2010 9:23 pm

Anyone else see the nasty stamp on Buckley's groin by Bismark ? It ended Buckley's game.

He's such a bollocks that lad. Great hooker though.

Very disappointing by ireland. Hopefully its more rustiness than anything else.

Well done to South Africa the scoreline doesn't do them justice. All the more impressive considering the players they were missing.

Have to agree about the lazy runners and blocking done by the Saffers it was very frustrating and owens did not want to know about it.

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Believer November 08, 2010 9:25 pm

SA deserved the win, but Ireland were so poor i don't think we can read too much into it. SA will still have to up their game considerably to beat any of the other home nations on this tour, epecially if the weather conditions don't suit them.

Wales are depleted, but still put up a fight against Aus, likewise England have been poor for a while but were very stuffy against the AB's and Scotland have been playing great recently and, while they have a few key injuries too, would also probably have won this game.

That isn't to say the Boks can't up their game, i'm sure they will, but i reckon this result was more down to reland being poor for all but the last 15 minutes than the Boks being that good!

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Scotsdale November 08, 2010 9:56 pm

"Anyone else see the nasty stamp on Buckley's groin by Bismark ? It ended Buckley's game."

No, Buckley is out with a hip injury. Unless you're saying Bismarck did that, then your accusation is 100% speculation.

Anyway, I missed that. I did see some vicious rucking on the Beast though. Who knew rucking was back? Not me. Nice to see it allowed though. The good old days.

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 9:58 pm

For the attention of the video editor of these highlights. It is not necessary to show all the penalty kicks, far better to pick half of them and show the build up/context of the game. Really awful stuff, I am packing it in at 13-6 as I have learned nothing about the game thus far. Will try the site again next week but you will only drive away traffic unless the highlights are edited better.

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Third Centre November 08, 2010 10:10 pm

Scotsdale when Buckley came off the tv showed a replay in which Bismark stamped on his groin/hip area in the previous passage of play so i just assumed but its funny it hasnt been mentioned as a reason by anyone so it may just have aggravated it or been coincidental alright.

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franks November 08, 2010 10:30 pm

"Will try the site again next week but you will only drive away traffic unless the highlights are edited better."

As far as I know, this site doesn't strive to be your ESPN SportsCenter, and the quality of the highlights aren't what people come here for. But, hey, keep looking a gift horse in the mouth if you like.

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Anonymous November 08, 2010 10:36 pm

KG habana did get a yellow card....

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Anonymous November 09, 2010 12:43 am

i thin we should all just sit back and reflect on the book that paul gormley wrote on the history of irish rugby

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Von November 09, 2010 7:08 am

Fry said...
There's already enough penalties slowing rugby games down, and while I don't agree with this tactic and would like for it to go away, I would hate for there to be even more whistles blown...


Yeah, fair point!

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Flinto November 09, 2010 10:42 am

"I am packing it in at 13-6 as I have learned nothing about the game thus far. Will try the site again next week but you will only drive away traffic unless the highlights are edited better."

So your attention span only lasted 1 minute 30 seconds? You my friend, are a moron.

Some people happen to appreciate seeing how the score got up to what it did, rather than just having the random jump (without some of the kicks).

As Franks said, your loss.

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Phil November 09, 2010 12:37 pm

^^^ lame to criticise free highlights!! Keep up the good work RD, we still love ya ;-)

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DJ November 09, 2010 1:28 pm

think earls at FB and fitzgerald at 12 is the better option as earls is great with space infront of him and fitz is great at getting trough the smallest of gaps at a better tackler. carr will surely start against samoa..surely

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Anonymous November 09, 2010 10:00 pm

New look team from Kidney thank god, can't wait to see Cronin and Doner do

15 - Luke Fitzgerald
14 - Tommy Bowe
13 - Brian O'Driscoll C
12 - Paddy Wallace
11 - Andrew Trimble
10 - Ronan O'Gara
9 - Peter Stringer
1 - Tom Court
2 - Sean Cronin
3 - John Hayes
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan
5 - Devin Toner
6 - Denis Leamy
7 - Sean O'Brien
8 - Jamie Heaslip

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Anonymous November 09, 2010 10:01 pm

i meant Toner

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Huh!! the 3rd November 10, 2010 2:15 am

Hey Conor, to clear up the comment on BOD.

As Paul Gormley alluds to below our posts I'd go with Fitz at 12 (better passer than Earls and as someone else says a great and underrated defender and Earls at 13). My FB would be Geordan Murphy, but thats a short term solution.

The fact is BOD will never be rested/ dropped for any Ire game even, and, when he has an injury will play on to the detriment of the team.

The reason I've chosen Fitz at 15 is he's more confident (and taller) than Earls under the high ball. Both are sensational runners, but Earls shades it in the natural try scoring stakes and at 12/13 should see more ball with the new rules.

Scotsdale

In RD's round up of scores from Sat I posted a piece on du Plessis' stamp on Buckley. My belief as stated then, is Buckley was already injured, BdP didn't see him when he originally stood on him, Buckley reacts while prone on the ground his displeasure with BdP, then Bismark goes in for seconds clearly putting his foot down on Buckley's Hip/upper leg area. I believe on Sat I said I think BdP is the best hooker in the game but he is a total scumbag.

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good job, connacht November 10, 2010 5:51 am

Against Samoa, I could see someone like Trimble being of use...but Paddy Wallace can't seem to last 40 minutes without getting injured (unfortunate, since he can sometimes create some magical plays), so I hope they've got a good replacement lined up.

Also, I don't know why they'd put ROG in against Samoa...maybe to protect Sexton? But ROG can't tackle against normal teams, let alone Samoa...I'd rather see him fit for NZ. Same for O'Driscoll. He's a shitload smaller than Nonu and Williams, but if he actually rested himself before the game...when he's on, he is a wiry and creative little bugger and might be the spark Ireland need to beat NZ for the first time ever (I doubt it, but I'm hoping against hope...).

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good job, connacht November 10, 2010 6:04 am

I also just noticed the referee for the IRE-NZ match is Marius Jonker...I wish to shit it would've been Mark Lawrence, but now I'll be prepared for a match of shrill whistle blasts and stingy penalties...hopefully Ireland improve their scrum - he loves to ping teams in that area.

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Scotsdale November 10, 2010 7:40 am

Well, if you consider Bismark a scumbag based on his abrasive play, what would you call Jerry Flannery?

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Patron November 10, 2010 10:32 am

Sexton & RoG are very differnt players at this point in their careers, sexton is good with ball in hand, but RoG has a experience with tactical kicking. In time Sexton will have better experience and 2-3 years down the line will be a great player. For the All Blacks I would start Strings and RoG, Stringer moves the ball at a SH pace that is lacking in the NH, England showed that the best way to meet the All Blacks is to play fast ball back at them. Start Rog and if we are in with a shout after 55-60 mins bring on sexton to run the ball.

D'arcy was a ghost against SA so a fit Earls would be the better choice, great to see O Driscoll back in form. Kearney has been poor, he had a great season in 2009 but i think Fitzgearld would be just as good at full back and Trimble on the wing. At least then Kearney could do some damage off the bench.


RoG & Strings are creditted with the come back but SA were already thinking about the next week. The main difference was the quick ball, the second try was as a result of 2 quick taps.

If Ireland could work on a faster game then we may have a chance against Aus, but it might be a step too far for to beat the All Blacks just yet

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Third Centre November 10, 2010 10:42 am

Not wishing to speak for Huh but i personally think Flannery is a bit of a scumbag....just not as big a one as Bismark.

Fair enough Scotsdale ?

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Scotsdale November 10, 2010 1:04 pm

Why is Bismarck a bigger scumbag, besides the fact that he's South African and Flannery is Irish?

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Bismark has the cleaner track record.

He's aggressive sure, but scumbag is a strong term.

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Huh!! the 3rd November 10, 2010 5:02 pm

Scotsdale I agree with Thrid centre.

The Flannery incidents seem more stupidity than intention. When Flannery stood on the Clermont flanker (name escapes me at the mo) he wasn't looking, the kick on Palisson was idiotic and reckless, and theres something else I'm forgetting.

You said you didn't see the incident so you didn't see Bismark look down at Buckley then stamp on his hip area. Also, v France last Nov Bismark did a lung like Flannery did on Palisson on Cedric Heymans I believe who also had to go off and he went unpunished there too. He was following a kick chase and went in very late after the ball had been cleared. The RTE commentators talked about it (Frankie Sheehen was 1), but it ended there.

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Huh!! the 3rd November 10, 2010 5:03 pm

Bonnaire was the flanker.

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Anonymous November 10, 2010 6:19 pm

how about
15 Fitzgerald
14 Earls
13 Bowe (where he played for the Lions in the 3rd test)
12 BOD (time to move in)
11 Trimble

Time to drop Kearney and D'Arcy, neither of whome are producing enough.

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Jono November 10, 2010 11:19 pm

Neither of them are scumbags, it's a stupid thing to say.
They're just hookers, and as you can see from the England-NZ game hookers tend to be very abbrassive to the point of breaking the rules.
But there's no need to cry about it.

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Anonymous November 11, 2010 8:51 am

Huh the 3rd, when did du Plessis stand on the guy? what minute?

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Scotsdale November 11, 2010 11:52 am

The Irish love to hate other players and hold grudges. It's incredible. Two prime examples would be Tana Umaga (and Mealamu), and Schalk Burger. Now Bismarck is all of a sudden a scumbag too.

There's a few Irish players who fit into the same category (leg kickers, stampers, eye gougers, knee in the head types, etc).

Bismarck Du Plessis is an incredible player and yes, he's abrasive. If he wasn't, he probably wouldnt be such a valued member of the springbok side.

I guarantee you that Kiwis wont call Bakkies Botha a scumbag for the rest of his career (headbutt on cowan), nor will they think of Jamie Heaslip as a dirty Irishman. (knee on McCaw).

I suppose if they'd never beaten South Africa or Ireland though, they might go down that route.

Just trying to make a point.. peace out.

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Patron November 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Anonymous: not a bad backline, didnt think about bringing bowe into second centre. totally agree that with BoD aging that he would be the better option at inside centre, having him closer to the outhalf creates a better connection down that channel, BOD has lost a bit of pace but has made up with bulk. What about bringing Geordan murphy in at full-back and fitzgerald at wing?

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Third Centre November 11, 2010 2:43 pm

but Ireland have beaten south africa and don't like burger for gouging fitzgerald or bismark for stamping on buckley so that can't be the reason.....

Maybe we do hold grudges but the two incidents you alluded to (umaga and burger) were pretty nasty and unsportsmanlike and the manner in which the respective unions dealt with them was incredibly disrespectful.

If after Botha's headbutt on cowan peter DeVilliers had said that it's a man's game and if you can't headbutt a player in the back of the head we mights as well put on tutus i think the NZ union would (rightly) be pissed off

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Scotsdale November 11, 2010 3:12 pm

But that makes De Villiers a moron, not everyone else scumbags. Even having said that, he wasn't speaking in his first language. We all know how often he says stupid stuff!

Are their similar inter provincial scumbag rivalries with the local eyegougers too? Why isn't Sergio Parisse a scumbag for eyegouging against NZ? Because NZ dont care - it was a once off filthy incident and they can easily beat Italy, so don't need to direct their anger elsewhere.

Ireland haven't beaten South Africa all that much btw. I think it's 4 times in 21, with all three times being at home.

Anyway, I dislike players being labeled for the sake of it. At the end of the day its rugby and sh*t happens. Not many forwards these days have PERFECTLY clean records. That doesn't make them bad people though.

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Third Centre November 11, 2010 3:55 pm

exactly.






Apart from Bismark Du Plessis

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Scotsdale November 11, 2010 5:00 pm

Yeah, he's a bad person and a scumbag because you say he is. Whatever dude.

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Huh!! the 3rd November 11, 2010 5:22 pm

Anonymous said...
Huh the 3rd, when did du Plessis stand on the guy? what minute?

The minute before Buckley came off. Between the 50/55 minute mark I think, I kind of deleted the recording of it the minute it was over (who'd want to watch that POS again).

Scotsdale seems to be taking this personally. I don't have a problem with any of the players you mention, huge Mealamu fan. But LIKE I'VE REPEATEDLY SAID, BISMARK CLEARLY SEES BUCKLEY IS ON THE GROUND THEN PUTS HIS FOOT ON HIS HIP AREA AND APPLIES PRESSURE. This is not accidental, the first was when he didn't see Buckley and backed into him.

And aggressive players don't always have to scumbags. Ok, scumbag was a tad OTT, gougers are scumbags, Burger, Parisse, Quinlain, Jennings, etc.
Personally, I have more a problem with the match officials and IRB reactions to what Burger did than Burger himself.

Brad Thorne to name 1, has always been ultra agressive and abrassive but within confines of the law and the ethos of the game.

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Anonymous November 11, 2010 5:31 pm

Someone who stands on a prone player isn't abrassive, its dickish.

Abrassive is hitting rucks at pace, clearing out rucks, putting in crunching tackles (Thorne, Botha, Leamy, Collins, half the Islanders). Labelling someone abrassive when they stamp on another player is incorrect. If that player happens to be abrassive player, this shouldn't be used as an excuse.

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Third Centre November 11, 2010 6:34 pm

ah scotsdale i'm only joking. Sorry if i went too far.

Scumbag is quite a harsh turn of phrase.

Lets all just agree that if alan quinlan, tana umaga, bismark, neil back and richie mccaw had a baby it would be some sort of evil rugby plyer

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Scotsdale November 11, 2010 7:40 pm

Firstly, Third Centre, fair play.

Secondly, regarding the actual incident in question, I've seen it now and truly think you guys are overeacting. I dont know Bismarks intentions or why he lifted his boot (not good, obviously), but shit that was barely a tickle! I think you need to see it again and you'll realise that too. As I say, shouldn't have lifted his leg but you guys have made a mountain out of a molehill. Some of the other rucking that went on, that was serious stuff. This really was nothing, especially for a 7ft, 500 pound giant like Buckley. :)

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Anonymous November 11, 2010 9:54 pm

9 Boss
10 Keatling
12 P.Wallace
13 Bowe
11 F.Carr
14 Fitzgerald
15 Earls

It's a test match, let's try something new. We're the only country that doesn't! Let players who aren't experienced get in the mix. What's the point in putting ROG, Stringer and BOD in a test match against Samoa? They don't need anymore experience, they're not going to improve as players and no disrespect to Samoa, but a win against them isn't exactly what we need to be aspiring to is it? The 6ns and the World Cup is where the wins count, our present "legends" might win us some games in the near future but they're all in their 30's, we can't waste these opportunities and potential internationals like Keatling and Carr. What do we have to lose by putting some hunger on the pitch and competition for places while we're at it? A bit of depth is the only way we can improve, look at the French.

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Bill November 11, 2010 10:44 pm

Hookers push the boundries all the time.
It doesn;'t make them scumbags, and in rugby, youy leave shit on the field.
The irish have a very bad habit of crying about incidents for years.
All kinds of things have happened on the field, things much worse than BOD's dislocated shoulder (most overhyped spear tackle ever).

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Anonymous November 11, 2010 11:33 pm

Huh the 3rd, just watched that incident. Grow a pair of balls, du Plessis hardly touched him. What a bitch.

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Third Centre November 11, 2010 11:57 pm

I'd love to know what the most under-hyped spear tackle was.

Anyone know where that footage is ? I'd like to see it agan. And grow more balls

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Huh!! the 3rd November 12, 2010 12:34 am

Thanks to cancer I actually do need to grow 1 ball at least. Thanks for the recommendation. Funny how the stamp happens to be right where Buckley is injured, no.

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Anonymous November 12, 2010 1:48 am

Buckley went off because he couldn't take anymore of the Beast. du Plessis hardly made contact and was mostly just trying to antagonize.

The fact that you have made such a big deal out of this really is pathetic, how about the rucking that was going on by Ireland? Oh but you ignore that, don't you? Cockbag.

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Bill November 12, 2010 2:34 am

Third Centre, how about in the tri-nations 2005 when Tuqiri speared Mccaw right onto his goddamn head, in a much, much more dangerous and clearly illegal fashion?
Notice how no kiwis ever talk about it?
Know why?
Cuz it was over 5 fucking years ago and illegal tackles happen from time to time.
Any other rugby nation gets over these incidents very quickly, it seems only Ireland has a cry for the next decade.

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Scotsdale November 12, 2010 7:52 am

Why do I feel like if Ireland had won this match there would be no mention of this Du Plessis 'stamping'? It's pathetic, especially having watched it again.

Buckley pulled a Vickery on the night, got injured, and went off. He also butt punched Bismark after he was tickled on the hip.

And Huh!! the third, I'm sure Bismark knew exactly where Buckley was injured, so targeted him there.. hmm.

Seriously guys, it was nothing but of bit of antagonizing as someone above said. Have you even seen it again since?

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Anonymous November 12, 2010 11:30 am

don't mistake these whingers for genuine rugby fans. Most Irish fans and players know that shit happens, suck it in and dish it out! Ireland did well to ruck as they did, and the SA pack played a fantastic game. Who gives a fck about little isolated battles. Anyone who's ever played knows that happens.
More to the point when are we (Ireland) going to start using these games as stepping stones to something greater? We should be trying out new players as posted above, ROG and BOD aren't going to improve, they're where they need to be, we need more depth.

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Third Centre November 12, 2010 3:46 pm

I remember that tuiquri tackle and in fairness it was quite a big deal.However it's not really comparative to what happened to O'Drsicoll and the way it was dealt with by the NZ union afterwards.

Would've liked to see a few younger players get a go but i suppose we'll see more of Ryan, Toner, Earls, etc in the next few games. At least i bloody hope so.

Did anyone see BOD trip Du Plessis in this match ? My mate saw it but i can't find any footage.

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