England outpace the Wallabies at Twickenham

Cooper's defense was once again atrociously bad, kudos to Johnno for doing his homework and exploiting that. Also, Australian forward pack continues to find itself on the backfoot, changes have to be made.

Loved seeing the aggression from England, it's about time. Not a Pom, but glad to have them looking like a real threat again.

Chris Ashton's running so intense

Well done England, great performance. Ashton's long-range effort was superb. I hope the Irish team were watching that.

Quade who?

England ran riot. Great to see them performing so well, it's been a while.

Kurtley beale had a decent game though.

As a French, it's hard to say this, but this English team looks damn good !
I can't help but notice that when O'Connor has a day off, Australia loses.

now i know genia was outnumbered at the breakdown but did any single one of those tacklers role away or let him go?
sorry england were immense but that gave me the craps big time

Not english, but you have to admire that preformance. What a turnaround from England have had recently.

England have peaked to early.

I wouldn't say england have peaked too early at all! top quality play, and the younger generation of players are starting to come through, with room to grow before the world cup, so proud to be english right now!

That try by Ashton was seriously impressive, England showing they can mix counter attack as well as their usual style of play...

To be fair though, the Wallabies at times can be their own worst enemy...

Finally got to see an England side play to their ability. In the style they play for at their clubs which is the reason for them being picked.

It wasn't without fault, but in the right direction.

Now lets see what they do against SA, else this was a one off and doesn't matter.

Re comment about rolling away for Ashtons second try.

if you look he is tackled by Flood, Tindall and Palmer. They all stay on their feet during the tackle,apart from Palmer, who is over turned by australian players joining the ruck. But the ball was over turned. From what i understand this is allowed.

The two teams seemed to completely switch with each other. After a quarter of the match or so, England got to spreading the ball out wide - like the Wallabies usually do, and the Wallabies seemed to hardly ever get the ball out to their magnificent backline - like England usually neglect to do as well. Imagine if England had been giving the ball to the backs all along this year.

England also, for the first time in a very long time, looked to have an actual game plan. They seemed to have actually planned for set running lines depending on the situation, and it worked out for them. Dunno why people tend give Tindall a hard time, he played excellently, breaking the gainline on pretty much every occasion.

On a somewhat unrelated note, why is it Rod Kafer seems to be the only one in the Wallabies booth who seems to know what's going on? Maybe he ought to have Robbie Deans job...

England is getting better and better slowly but surely.
It's quite impressive.
Hope France will show something the two next tests or we can start to worry about the 6N, and most the WC.

wow, this is the best English performance I have seen in... years! If Ireland keep playing shit I'm going to be cheering for England pretty soon!

you had the ref on your side. scrum reffing was ridiculous. forwArd passing missed constantly. not taking taps from the mark.

arh a little bit bitter?

and poor old mark webber didn't win the F1 either

shame you don't have the honestly just to admit the better team won on the day

When the Aussies aren't whinging about 'whingeing Poms', they are whinging themselves :)

Seriously, that was a good performance from England. O'Connor's misses probably cost Aus in the end, but he'll learn from that and be stronger in future. The more I see Beale, the more I like him.

Fair play to England - they do seem to peak at the right time (ie in the lead up to the WC - especially impressive as they are often completely shit for a year or two after the WC)

Amazing step by 9 to lead to that try - and was 14 smiling from miles out?!? Looked that way.

All of a sudden, England seem miles ahead of Ireland for the 6N.

Ireland, on the other hand, seem to be taking, as usual, the exact opposite trajectory to England re World Cups - brilliant the year after one (e.g. after the one England won, Ireland went to England and slaughtered them -scoring an amazing full length of the pitch try themselves). They were also brilliant last year.

Now, just when they need it, they seem to be running out of gas.

Congratulations England from an Irishman.

Ashton's second was class

Gotta hand it to the Poms this time, they looked like a modern rugby union team out there and suddenly seem streets ahead of the other "Home Unions" going by the last two weekends. Nothing dazzling but lots of ball, lots of speed and playing what's in front of them instead of safety first all the time.
Of the 3N sides on tour the Aussies, with their youth and erratic pack, were likely to be the most brittle and when Eng hit the ground running and then surprisingly kept going, it was catch-up rugby for a team that wasn't firing. The Oz backs can be brilliant but they need to get the ball and preferably to get it going forward. Pocock is the only definite World XV guy in the Oz pack and never plays badly but the Eng pack all played well and gave their backs plenty of ball and on the front foot.
Personally I think Aus were crucified at the tackle by the ref and I shared their obvious bewilderment at times, but I don't think it changed the result much.

Why the hell do England go on and celebrate like theyve just won the dam world cup or something?! eff sakes they win one test match and they're jumping around popping champagne and parading their trophy around. Honestly find some humilty, this is exactly why people find it so hard to support them. I think the Springboks will give them a huge wake up call in two weeks time

Congrats to England and English fans, as an Aussie I take my hat off to a team playing that good!

yeah there were 2 guys that made no attempt at all to roll away when genia went for that try, just the type of inconsistency thats spoiling the game. its gooten to the point that refs alot of the time have a bigger influence on the outcome of the game than the players do.
scrums have become a farce, half the time it looks like the ref is guessing who to give the penalty to.

Excellent performance by the England side, this is coming from a Kiwi.

It seems England have really embraced the new style of running rugby which is a real joy for us rugby fans to watch. So lets hope more International sides look to run the ball a lot more also, which would make the world cup in my country next year a cracker.

It was a very fun game to watch. Both teams could have finished a little better but even still it was an impressive display.

I think Australia seemed to have not got the right game plan, they didn't have anywhere to target and it felt quite improvised at times.

England still have room to improve. They should use the time before the world cup just to become more experianced and handle stressful situations better.

"eff sakes they win one test match and they're jumping around popping champagne and parading their trophy around"

Have you seen how England have been playing in the past year or two? Yeah, I'd say that beating the #2-ranked team is reason to celebrate and look forward to the coming year...

I really don't care for England much, but let them have their fun. I don't think anyone had been trash-talking OZ or anything, and no one has been claiming they'll win the RWC, so what's the big deal?

---

"Honestly find some humilty..."

"...I think the Springboks will give them a huge wake up call in two weeks time"

Yeah, because you sure set the standard for humility and all.

as an aussie il still give them that ashton didnt win the entire game for england but they are the stronger team. lets just hope its not like that for the world cup.:)

Well played England you layed down a mark you added another dimension and done rugby credit, no true rugby fan could deny that performance warmed hearts.

Can wait for the bokke game I'll be in twickers.

Hard luck to the Aussies just the wrong day when NH rugby woke up and England put in the greatest show I've ever witnessed from them. Good game!!!

27th November!!!

Groot stryd bokke!!!

Come on bokke!!!

RD can you post the clip of Ashton taking out Pocock in the lead up to his first try?

@ Tane

Well said mate

Typical convicts - letting down the southern hemisphere's hopes of a clean sweep of the northern nations! Seriously good game though - I thoroughly enjoyed Ashton's try, and thought England were magnificent in all aspects, particularly their running rugby.

I was a little mystified by the refereeing re ruck and maul (I think the refereeing across the weekend was poor), but thought the scrum battles were regulated well. I agree with a couple of other comments: Pocock, despite being a part of a poor scrum, is consistently immense (the next McCaw), and Quade Cooper, is very much the new Carlos Spencer, enigmatic and at times freakishly brilliant in attack, but is also terribly inconsistent, and at times can cost his team. In addition, his defence sucks.

England has a much stronger strategy than Australia and executed well for the win, so congratulations to them. The game would have been better and closer if not for the combination of bad Australian goal kicking and Craig Jouberts typically mind boggling refereeing.

England did a great job of neutralising Pocock which I think had a bigger influence on the result than has been ackownledged.

yeah they neutralised Pocock by Ashton dragging him to the ground off the ball so he could score his first

Yeah, so Ashton did something probably not within the laws; he wasn't caught by the referee, so he got away with it. Maybe he should be a #7 and do it all game like Pocock does, eh?

Notice even Pocock himself wasn't bitching. Just you.

Great game from England, rugby needs them to be good and playing a good style.

Red roses take note - your boys did not win this in the scrum, they won it in the loose. Creaming ones pants over over Sheridan and scrum strength is all well and good, but if it means the forwards are too big and slow to get to the next ruck, then that big scrum is just a liability.

IMO Ashton needs to watch his celebrations though. He may suffer the wrath of the RugbyDump hordes for daring to show some excitement and attitude. Or does that only apply when NZ'ers showboat?

le tired - he cheated. He's a cheater. don't get upset because someone pointed it out.

nz'ers show boat? where did that comment come from?

Both had two tries, England had 7 penalty shots to Wallabie's 5. Even had O'connor nailed them all it will still be a 6 points difference.

I didn't watch the game, but what gives? What's with all the penalties? And is Craig Joubert just a bane for the Aussies or what?

Quote from Doos "Why the hell do England go on and celebrate like theyve just won the dam world cup or something?! eff sakes they win one test match and they're jumping around popping champagne and parading their trophy around. Honestly find some humilty,"

Did you miss the match a couple of weeks ago between the All Blacks and Australia or something? Australia carried on exactly the same way (especially the Australian commentators). Not that there was anything wrong with it mind you, just trying to put some perspective on your comments.

England are shaping up as a really good team, really enjoyed this game. Australia are very lucky to be as high as 2nd place on the IRB ladder (or does this loss drop them to 3rd now?). Will be interesting to see how SA goes against the English.

Fuck. English 'form pattern' is really frustrating. They are shit for 3 years, then rise from the dead to go top everytime a WC is looming. Which is the exact opposite of France (and NZ too actually)...

6N is nice, but we (french people) would like to be competitive during world cups...

Ben Robinson was penalised quite rightly all game for holding the tackled player while on his feet. He actually let go once and was still penalised but what can you do. All 3 england players who tackled Genia held on.. but no penalty- mindboggling.

on the scrum- all penalties warranted as both sides were trying it on.


Oh well at least we finally beat the all blacks!!!

Ehhh it's a lose to England. Doesn't mean much to Australia, but helps England's confidence. They needed a win. The team to beat are the All blacks right now. England finally has a scoring threat at wing.


P.S. Quade Cooper a twit.

USA! supporter World Cup 2011.

Ashton doesn't 'take out' Pocock, he pushes Pocock out of the way because Pocock is obstructing him and he wants to get to the ball.

Good performance by England but as everyone has been saying, one victory doesn't mean anything. I'll wait until after the SA test and 6N before I start celebrating a 'new' England.

never anything worse than losing to england.
the look on that ugly wingers face just sticks in my mind

quades shocking defence just cant be hidden at this level, lucky he make somthig from nothing

Maybe cooper was too worried about whether or not he had chosen the right boots or not?

"nz'ers show boat? where did that comment come from?"

That came from Kurt Baker getting crucified on here for celebrating the match winning try at the commonwealth games final vs. England in the same way Ashton did. Naturally, it was mostly by disappointed England fans.

Anyway, well done England. Have to agree I thought Genia was hard done by in the lead up to Ashtons 2nd try, but well done Laws to help set it up. Makes a difference if your second rowers, etc. can play a little.

Makes a difference also if you play with the ball and not kick it away, i.e. it's not only time where you are attack but it denies the opposition the ball. Something England seemed (I've only seen the highlights)to do here and did in the 2nd 40 vs the All Blacks.

This wasn't a win, this was a demolition.

England looked good but they will have more of a challenge against the Boks. It will be a different ballgame altogether as the Boks forwards may dominate the English pack. I can't wait for it!

England played very well. Unexpectedly well, in fact - but I was more pleasantly surprised by the cohesion of the "new" blood Youngs, Ashton etc with the old hands. Even Flood looked excellent with ball in hand.
Unfortunately Australia looked bereft of ideas - I couldn't understand why the first two Aus penalties of the first half (near the sideline, and half-way, mind!) were shots at goal and not kicked to an attacking lineout!?! That lack of aggression gave England hope, I think.
Yes the refereeing was atrocious - not only inconsistent, but missing blatant infringements and dropped balls. However, this wasn't the reason we lost - we simply played terribly almost to a man (exceptions being Beale and Moore).

i love ashtons face he new he had scored that second when he crossed his own 22m line looked like drew had been on the beers as well

hey ted - open your other eye.

As a cazy kiwi expat its Good to see Mother England give the Criminal Elite a good royal spanking.
Big Martin Johnson really got these time clicking Courtney Laws looks good ball in hand, Aston becoming a house hold name.
Who every would have thought the POMMYS would keep ball in hand the Roo farkers defense must have gone walkabout. If Harry potter can pull a rabbit out his arse then Kurtley can pull a rocket out his arse, Man the boys got speed every since he gave up the Goon bag he's been on fire and looking better every game.

This result is not just good for English rugby but good for world rugby its just another kick in the teeth to negative journalism in this country.
Now that Stevie PDIVY jones and his capped Crusaders Have nothing to Whinge about in there Sunday times column they can focus all there energy on putting a end to the AB'S and the haka
YEAR RIGHT !!

Another thing as AB'S supporter was disappointed with the All Black management appealing against Kevvy's 4week band he deserved it. In my opinion it wasn't reckless but a intent to hurt.

Crikey, that Ashton can move his limbs fast. He's almost the opposite of Christian Cullen: Ashton's limbs are a blur when he's outpacing everyone else, where Cullen at full sprint looked like he was still jogging. Both fast, just look completely different. Nice seeing Ashton burn Mitchell.

One thing I hope to see sometime is Sonny Bill Williams taking on Quade Cooper's defensive channel / funnel. Should be a try or two in that one...

I hope that England lose against South Africa

By a lot

I think its going to be a titanic battle next weekend.
SA struggled defensively, wales punched to many holes in the midfield. SA miss forie? at center they needed that straight hard running. England cant afford to let SAFFA get there set piece cos there no better team at the rolling maul then SA. POMMYS have the players if they can get that go forward ball they have speed around the ruck with young and pace out wide., but its going to come down to what tight 5 dominates it always is with SA Bakkie & Matfield are like calk and cheese but complement each other in there style of play. In the lose forwards is going to be a real contest tom croft and co might lack the power of Speise, Juan but they got break down speed and need to get up and close them down quick dont fall into wales trap by giving space our they going to break tackles.

Be interesting to here your thoughts?

I think its going to be a titanic battle next weekend.
SA struggled defensively, wales punched to many holes in the midfield. SA miss forie? at center they needed that straight hard running. England cant afford to let SAFFA get there set piece cos there no better team at the rolling maul then SA. POMMYS have the players if they can get that go forward ball they have speed around the ruck with young and pace out wide., but its going to come down to what tight 5 dominates it always is with SA Bakkie & Matfield are like calk and cheese but complement each other in there style of play. In the lose forwards is going to be a real contest tom croft and co might lack the power of Speise, Juan but they got break down speed and need to get up and close them down quick dont fall into wales trap by giving space our they going to break tackles.

Be interesting to here your thoughts?

i'm in england and you'd think their performance was awesome from the press ect. sure they played better, and did their homework to exploit australias weaknesses, but by far the biggest weakness was the goal kicking. the play by the two teams was pretty even.
also the ref was quick to yellow card australia but england killed the ball like that a couple of times and the ref didn't even warn them.

The feed was slow when I watched it live so I didn't see the try smoothly but my word, Mitchell got completely blitzzed and he ain't slow...

Mat, I totally agree with your point about goal kicking.
The Auss havnt had a regular dependable kicker otherwise their job in Hong Kong would have been a lot easier.
Those who think England peaked too early clearly think they can't do better than this.
I'd say they've found their game plan: screw the notion of expansive vs conservative rugby, just play what's in front of you.
I'd like to see more options and combinations in the mid field. Perhaps Samoa is a good game to try things out. They are worthy opponents who didn't seem to need a coach.

I agree vinniechan you have to play what is in front Aus played lose so there was space to exploit if its going to be tight then you have to play that tight game. I have to say there is room for improvement in this England team Its going to be interesting to see how danny cipirani goes in super 15 has differently got the skill and running game. not taking any thing away from Flood tho.

@mat

Australia's yellow card was because giteu (spelling) dived in from the side and lay on the ball when england were about to score a try. it was a professional foul. I don't remember england doing this once?

"i'm in england and you'd think their performance was awesome from the press ect"

errr, it was awesome. Of course there are still improvements to be made though.

@ Nathan, before ashtons 2nd try, genia got tackled less than a metre from the line, the 2 main tacklers did not release and made no attempt whatsoever to role away while a 3rd ripped the ball without first releasing the player.

The main tackler was Palmer who got cleared out. Flood released and re enaged and could play the ball from any side, and Tindall was a supporting defender to counter ruck
The key point was Genia got turned and couldn't get the ballback on the right side and he had no support, which was a quite big difference.

btw, The Mighty AB: I bloody hope we havn't seen the best from England!!

Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat - England played them off the park, and never let their players have enough ball to get going.

The aussies were taken to the cleaners fair and square, through Englands good play, rather than their bad play.

Long way to go for England, but the road to the RWC looks like a bright one.

Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!

Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat - England played them off the park, and never let their players have enough ball to get going.

The aussies were taken to the cleaners fair and square, through Englands good play, rather than their bad play.

Long way to go for England, but the road to the RWC looks like a bright one.

Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!

excellent job done by england

If i was Toulons President i would hardly try to get Beale maybe after the world cup!
this guys gonna be a superstar!

R120 said...Bad weekend for the Aussies, i bet that loss to the Kiwis in League hurt too!
Gives a high five there brother !! haha The golden glory the lime light was short lived the criminals have to go back to wot they gud at....... Roo fucking go get im Skippy.

Mitchell = Fat

Mitchell = Fat

the turnover for Ashton's second try was completely illegal. didn't release the player and then just lied on de ball.

gud try tho

R120 said...
Great performance from England, what i loved about it is that despite the attempts from various Aussies on here to find an excuse, England beat them without the Aussies being able to have any excuse for the defeat

How do you know the people making excuses on behalf of Australia are themselves Aussies?

I'm English and I think the turnover against Genia leading up to Ashton's second was won illegally. Palmer was lying all over the wrong side of the ruck and made no attempt at all to release him. Some good work by Tindall to dig it out though.

Anyway, I'm glad the ref let it go, otherwise rugby fans, whatever their nationality, would've missed a great try. TV producers are going to get vast mileage out of slow-mo-ing Ashton's facial expression where you see him face-on at about half-way. Nick Easter described it as "like a rhino mid-orgasm"...

I'm English and I think the turnover against Genia leading up to Ashton's second was won illegally.

------------

Won illegally lol, how? It's hardly Englands fault that Genia played the ball on Englands side.

If he held onto it he may have got a penalty.

vinniechan if England does get better then we will never here the end of it,lol.

What's with all this 'criminal roo fucking' talk? Are you in primary school?

No need for the racism, England have finally put in a 100% performance, for the first time in a long, long while. its proved to everyone that theres more than one way to beat the big 3 (ie not just pack + kicking) playing them at their own game and pressure works!

peace out

sorry about that lex ive been getting the sheepshager tag from my ozzy mates just bit of friendly banter

Von said...
I'm English and I think the turnover against Genia leading up to Ashton's second was won illegally.

------------
Chris said...
Won illegally lol, how? It's hardly Englands fault that Genia played the ball on Englands side.

If he held onto it he may have got a penalty.

Hi Chris, I'm not sure any of your comment makes sense.

To answer your question, how: see my complete post that you responded to.
1. Palmer makes a tackle but does not release the player - that's not allowed and under the new breakdown laws you're given even less time to release.
2. As the ruck is formed, Palmer gets himself on the wrong side of it, preventing Australian players from getting to the ball. That's not allowed either.
3. Not mentioned in my earlier post, but having watched the highlights above again, I'll add that Toby Flood, after helping to make the tackle, then enters the ruck from the side. That's not allowed either.

In fact, the only England player contesting that ruck legitimately is Mike Tindall, who in my opinion made a great steal.

Then you say it's "hardly Englands fault that Genia played the ball on Englands side", which doesn't make sense. Genia was the ball-carrier. Until he was tackled he's not on England's side of anything. Once the ruck formed he'd have had to release the ball, which indeed he did, resulting in the turnover.

However, that same point leads you to suggest that "if he held onto it he may have got a penalty"... Presumably you mean he (Genia) may have given away a penalty?

As I said, as an England fan, I'm pleased England got away with it. As an objective rugby fan, I have to say they did indeed get away with an illegal turnover.

Just in case someone else picks me up on it, I realise that in point 1 of my last post, I should have said "under the new breakdown interpretations you're given even less time to release".

As an englishman i have to be proud of that performance and we are definitely building from the last 6N and summer tour. Have watched a lot of 3N this year and the Aussies have looked very exciting recently.

Both teams are still young and i am hoping for real fireworks from both come the RWC. At the end of the day the better team won in a high quality encounter.

Beale and Ashton would both be in my dream team back 3 at the moment, well played both, Ashtons Second SUBLIME!

Swing Low...Sweet Chariot!!

@RD

I know you want to bathe in the glory of England's victory some more, but it would be much appreciated if you posted the ABs vs Scotland highlights.

1

England played very well, but my favourite part was elsom's interview afterwards, he looked shell shocked!

More of the same should answer the doubters! 2:03; Does Matt Giteau have descension issues, was it Kristy with a fake moustache (played like it was) or did someone get Peter Andre to do a voice over for a chuckle???

When will Wycliff Palu be back and Radike Samo be called up???

"but it would be much appreciated if you posted the ABs vs Scotland highlights."

Wasn't much in the way of highlights, were there? Aside from Scotland making a few easy breaks through the AB defensive line, it was pretty much as you'd expect for a 49-3 slaughtering. That and the awful-looking injury to Max Evans just before the end of the match.

In any case, there's a requests section on this site you might try visiting.

@Roadpig

Err.. I think that dream ended when the Irish side Connacht beat Samoa and the English side Leicester Tigers beat South Africa

wonder if the game would have been different if the reffing had been more consistant.
Giteau got sent off for not rolling away while england were hot on attack. england score 13 points while hes off.
later on 2 english players commit the exact same offence if not worse and get absolutely nothing.

^^^ Leicester lost to south africa ^^^

Well done England, Australia got out-enthused.

Anonymous complaining about the reffing: Australia had been warned about repeated infringements at the breakdown. That meant that the next blatant offense would result in a card. Voila, there's Giteau's card. England hadn't gotten on the ref's bad side, so they were spared.

Ever heard of "playing the referee"?

good greif, the ref favoured England at the breakdown, but that often happens when a teams playing at home.
England played the ball on the ground a few times, didn't release and weren't punished.
If Australia did the same thing they were being penalised.
I thought Robinson in particular was harshly penalised. At one point he made a tackle, threw his arms to both sides to show he'd released then grabbed the ball from the tackled player.
It's a gray area.
If a guy makes a tackle but doesn't gop to ground doing it, then lets go of the guy while still standing over him, then grabs the ball, has he released? Because that's what Robinson did twice and he got penalsied both times. If pocock did that he'd get away with it.

Not taking anything away from Egnland, they deserved the win Australia's defence simpyl wasn't good enough.

Great game from England (and that is a Frenchman saying that!!!).

They confirm the first good impression given vs the AB. Sound like MJ is finally finding the right balance between the forward/back lines. The game play was attractive (actually the most enjoyable to watch of all NH teams) and consistent.
As usual England is slowly improving before an important event.

Please stop moaning about refereeing decision (sound like my countryman discussing ban length discrepancy between nations). Anyhow, as mentioned above by Jono, home ground has/will mostly influenced refereeing decision.

As for the Australians, they are finalizing a long season, so the defeat should be brought into perspective.

Ps: Is there a credible replacement option for Tindall? Hope not :-)

Awesome, need to show THAT Ashton try on it's own, you rarely see anyone do that at international level anymore... just awesome, please RD!

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The World Cup is going to be amazing!!!

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The Wor

Well, the breakdown that lead to Ashton's second try was completely legal.
The tackler, Palmer, tackled the player and turned him in the tackle. The Aussie scrum half didn't release the ball (and so if anything should have been an England penalty). Flood aids in the tackle and when he hits the floor stands up and immediately starts rucking. This is allowed, watch McCaw or Pocock do it over and over in a game when they are the first to the breakdown. By this time, in a normal situation, the ball carrier would need to release the ball. However, in this situation, the ball carrier wouldn't maybe due to the fact he was injured, maybe due to the fact he would have looked like a complete tit. (It is not Palmer holding it in, look at the arms not releasing the ball (and without being racist), the skin colors do not match). Therefore neither the tackler or the ball carrier could release the player or the ball.
Then Tindall comes in and cleans out. Again, legally. And what happened from then on was pure class :).

The difference between this event and the play leading to Giteau's sin binning is that in the first half, England had run the whole pitch and then were tackled. They were going forward and were vastly outnumbering the Aussies. For Giteua to end up on the wrong side of the ruck should have been a red card and then a penalty try. (Although, I am pleased it wasn't, because then the Poms would have been making up excuses for Englands absolutely destroying them).

Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly.
Flood in my opinion played amazing, he was shipping balls all over the place and smashing into tackles and kicking like a king.

There is so much more to come :)

For the world cup, the SH should be quaking in their boots. England have been training together for maybe the last month in prep for these Autumn internationals and have produced (finally) some amazing rugby due to confidence in their own ability and team work.

The SH are together for almost 3 months, due to the tri nations and then various matches before coming to the NH.

Next year, Eng and the NH will have been together for 3 months building up to the WC and they will all be playing matches regularly and will be on a level of the SH in terms of match prep. The Wor

Wow, forgive me Doctober, but I didn't actually read all of that.
The first thing though, is that you are wrong about Palmer.
He has to release the tackeld player once he makes the tackle.
Release and roll away.
He never did that, if you can't see that your blind.
He clearly makes the tackle, then holds on to Genia the whole time, never lets go, turns hima fter the tackle and attempts to play the ball.
Completely illegal.
But again, home town advantage, the ref let it go.

Jono, the thing is that first the ball carrier has to release the ball. Palmer was not restricting Genia's arms, he tackles him around the middle and pins Genia on his front. He is legally allowed to hold him like this until the ball is released, then he may get up and start rucking.
I agree with you after the ball is released. However, when the Aussies were rucking over, there is no way he can get up. Depending on the discretion of the referee he makes the call.
Throughout the game, he let a lot of similar calls go, for both teams to do with not releasing the tackler. If he was to do that, his reffing would have been inconsistent; which I believe wasn't throughout the game.

(Nice to hear from someone on these forums who knows the rules though :) )

lol at Aus!!! Beaten by Munster tonight, a munster team missing a load of first teamers :D

SH CLEAN SWEEP OH YEAH BABY!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aparently horrendous conditions though Tony, at one point the Munster half back put up a bomb, which went bacwards from his poisition ten metres and he had to run backwards to catch it.
I would read exactly sweet fuck all into that game.
Doctober, that's an interesting interpretation.
I don;t agree, the act of releasing the ball after being tackled and the tackler rolling away are two seperate things, two seperate offences.
If we appleid your logic, all any tackler would have to do is wrap up the ball and then he could just stay holding on in the tackle forever. The tackled player can't release if the tackler is holding the ball, and the tackler doesn't have the right to play the ball.
Watch Palmer, he gets to his feet and immediatly plays the ball, he's standing there on his feet, with his back to the Aussies.
That means he's playing the ball from an aillegal position, ebcause if he;'s the tackler and he's released, he then has to go around and enter the ruck legally. He never did that and he was clearly playing the ball.
Genia must release at some point, or how did England get the ball.
Palmer shouldn;t have been doing what he was doing though, which won the turnover.

But this is a small thing, the ref may have favoured England a bit at the breakdown, I persoanlly think he did.
However, Australia didn't deserve to win anyway, they weren't strong enough defensivley, missed far too many tackles (thanks Cooper).

doctober - you're confused. the tackler must release the tackled player immediately. This gives the tackled player an opportunity to place the ball. Palmer did not release immediately and never allowed Genia to place the ball.

you don't seem to understand/know the rules

Doctober, a tackler can't hang on until the player releases, he must let go once a tackle is made, which occurs when a player's momentum is ceased and he has gone to ground.
The act of the tackled player placing the ball is a completely seperate issue to the tackler rolling away.
Also, a player having made a tackle must not only release the tackled player, he must then enter the ruck legally.
In Palmer's case that would have meant running around behind the English defensive line and entering the ruck from the correct channel.
In other words he broke two laws.
He never released the tackled player and he never entered the ruck legally.

Oh and Toby Flood never released either, clearly.
At least he wasn't on the completely wrong side of the ruck though, like Palmer.

doctober said...
"Anyway, the win was really amazing. However, if any of you watched the full match, you would agree with me in saying that England could have scored about 4-5 more tries, very easily. So although the try count matched, Australia got off lightly."

The rational way to look at this is, despite playing better than they have for yonks England completely botched a couple of other chances and didn't deserve any more points than they ended up with. If they could've scored them "very easily" then why didn't they?
I also agree with all the comments about England being very lucky with the Genia tackle and an Australian penalty there might've made things very different. So be happy with the points you got.
btw I'm not Australian.

The reason England didn't score more tries is that Australia invariably gave away a penalty in their 22 and England sensibly took the points - unlike Genia...

the whole rule about releasing the player is to allow the man with the ball the opportunity to place the ball.
the rule now is that even players on their feet must also release the player completely before going back in for the ball.
Genia had 3 guys committing penalizable offences and it wasnt picked up. like the hartly try the week before, there were half a dozen things which could have been called in the direct lead up to that try yet none were.
something seriously needs to be done about the reffing.

bahahahahaha, the wallabies lost to munster.

@ Doctober - you're mistaken about Palmer being allowed to hold on to the tackled player. Hopefully other explanations above have clarified that for you.

Genia did eventually release the ball, which is how it ended up in English hands.

Anyway, you're jumping the gun a bit on England's world cup chances aren't you! We've won two matches against the same team, (who we actually seem to have a bit of a hex over now, which is nice :). But that's it so far.

If England resoundingly beat Samoa and South Africa, as well as at least three of the other six nations teams, THEN we can start dreaming about being world-beaters again......

Palmer does not have to go round and enter the ruck from the back feet. As the tackling player he simply has to release the player holding the ball and then he may stand up and compete for it, where ever he is. People need to check the rules before they start shouting them out!

Rule 15.4 (c)

http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/4/15/140/during-the-match/tackle-ball-carrier-brought-to-ground/the-tackler/#clause_140

Doctober check out the same website as you're wrong. Palmer should have released immediately. Penalty Australia! BTW English and still an awesome try :)

Actually Jimbo that rule is almost void now. If ther tackler has to roll away, it makes the playing the ball from any direction superfluous.
If he's left the ruck, moved away, he can't come back into it from any direction.
It makes the rule about the tackler playing it from any direction almost moot.

Ashton's try, top 10 at least for England all time? You don't see too many length of the pitch efforts at test level nowadays.

Traditionally I don't cheer for the limies but you have to love the rugby they are playing and the players playing it. Youngs, Foden, Lawes and Ashton have to be some of the most exciting young players in the world.


Cueto had a cracker as well. Owned Cooper.

Bill, the player only has to roll away if he is impeding the opposition. I also mentioned nothing about him leaving the ruck and re-entering. IF Palmer had been able to get to his feet he could have challenged for the ball from anywhere (after releasing the player) until cleared out by the opposition as he was the first tackler. The IRB website makes this quite clear.

Yeah but he went to the ground.
He was on the wrong side of the ruck and clearly impeding the opposition, he's the main reason they couldn't get to Genia.
He then got to his feet, without rleasing, then lost his feet again, still without releasing.
Everything he did in that ruck was illegal.
Flood too never released. It was illegal. It's obvious.

I really have a long list of complaints about the reffing. Too long for this area...
My thoughts: terrible reffing, Eng overall gaining some advantage from it (though australia got the rub in the first 10 min but didn't capatilise).
I don't doubt the skills of the English team, but Joubert made some signficant calls or no-calls in the game.
Could have been a different result with different ref on the day, which is not a good thing.

@ granite

England played all the rugby and were comfortably 10 points better than Australia on the day. If there was a different ref then he might have made different decisions but England would still have won. The ref did not cost Australia 18 points, no ref can do that. If it was a case of England sneaking home by one or two points then you might be right.

Bill, if you read my entire comment you'll see that I agree that what Palmer did was illegal and the penalty should have been awarded to AUSTRALIA. My comment about the laws was aimed at Tom several comments above who said that Palmer needed to leave the ruck and reenter it from the back feet. Again I will capitalise this for you... IF, I say IF Palmer had been able to get to his feet he was legally entitled to challenge for the ball from any position as he was the tackler. However, he makes no attempted to roll away or get to his feet, therefore it is a penalty to Australia. Please read entire comments... :)