Prop lays into fullback with big shot


Ben Funnell slamming tackle on Hawkins


Springboks edge All Blacks in thriller


Tameifuna's huge hit on Michael Hooper


Ludovic Mercier crazy reverse pass


Brian O'Driscoll Breakdown Masterclass


Just how fast is Carlin Isles?


Samu Manoa Huge Hit on Billy Twelvetrees


Why you should always tackle low

Sunday, November 28, 2010

All Blacks pushed by Wales but end with another Grand Slam

All Blacks pushed by Wales but end with another Grand Slam

Despite the final score, New Zealand were made to work hard for a 25-37 win over a spirited Wales side to seal their Grand Slam tour of the home nations.

Stephen Jones kept the home side in the game, but scoring five tries to one, two in the last ten minutes, New Zealand pulled away to continue an unbeaten run against Wales that stretches back to 1957.

Wales were the first to score through a Jones penalty, but the All Blacks responded immediately with good hands from Sonny Bill Williams sending Hosea Gear into the left corner for an unconverted score. Dan Carter then added a penalty that took his international points tally past Jonny Wilkinsons 1178.

Carter, who made his test debut against Wales in 2003, had, by his standards, an off day with the boot, but was his typical mercurial self in open play, returning an aimless Wales clearance to put full-back Mils through untouched for another unconverted try.

Wales, looking to make up for a lacklustre performance against Fiji last week, did gain some parity through their forwards, who tested the All Blacks in the scrum, and through Sam Warburton who looked to match McCaw in the loose. Centre Tom Shanklin also caused problems for the Kiwi defence.

Yet Wales couldnt turn the pressure into a score, and inevitably conceded to a ferociously talented All Blacks side that continues to play sparkling rugby, as demonstrated when a poor miss-kick to touch was punished by Hosea Gear who squeezed past George North for his second score.

This proved to be the turning point in the match, and paved the way for man of the match Jerome Kaino to tear through the Welsh defence to put wing Toeava in for a score and for scrum-half Jimmy Cowan, whose style of play typifies the All Blacks finesse, provided a deft inside flick to allow replacement prop Afoa to storm in for a fifth New Zealand score.

Although Lee Bryne crossed for a consolation Wales try, welsh head coach Warren Gatland was critical in his post-match analysis. In reference to Wales misskick, he said "It was massive, wasn't it?

"We had got back to 13-12, we had all the momentum and we looked strong defensively at that stage. We had some confidence behind us and I thought the All Blacks looked a bit rattled, but to miss touch and have them score from it was a big moment in the game, and those are the things we need to eradicate from our game as those are key moments that can be costly."

However, Gatland insisted there were positives to take from Wales winless autumn series:

"The scrum went well. We are disappointed but there is plenty to take from meeting the best side in the world and the players know with a bit more accuracy they are not too far away."

Time: 04:37

Posted at 1:56 pm | 91 comments

Viewing 91 comments

welsh64 November 28, 2010 1:11 pm

handed them the game, poor tackling and missed tackles gave us no chance, had we found touch when required and hit our men in the lineout consistently, a different result altogether IMO, but once again the ABs were so clinical

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Flooz November 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Second!!!!!

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Anonymous November 28, 2010 1:26 pm

Third!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Flooz November 28, 2010 1:26 pm

Fourth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hayeder November 28, 2010 1:38 pm

I expected thew highlights haha, Jerome Kaino was utterly immense that day, can we see his hit which forced a knock on in the first half please? I think it was on bradley davis.

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Douglas November 28, 2010 2:33 pm

Scrums still a huge mess, the IRB has to do something here. Kaino was immense, got through a ton of work and his physicality was felt all over the pitch. It's amazing how different the ABs are when Carter is off, they should have brought Slade on this tour to see what he has, Donald clearly not the answer. I can see why the AB coaches love Toeava on that first try, just great line-breaking ability and power.

Also, Andy Powell's clothesline/swinging arm on McCaw was a cheap shot. But then again, cheap shots on McCaw are becoming as common as collapsed scrums these days.

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WelshOsprey November 28, 2010 5:07 pm

Well we're building some good players for the world cup but the ABs were too good again.

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Anonymous November 28, 2010 5:10 pm

I feel players are getting fed up with McCaw's "legality" when he plays for the ball. Having said that I'm not saying the hits he's been getting lately are fair, no one likes a cheap shot.

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David November 28, 2010 6:19 pm

As a welsh fan i'm pleased we played alot better, but we kind of gave it away at points like Gatland said. Seems no matter how well Lee Byrne plays (not amazingly in this case) he always counteracts it by making some crucial mistake during a match. In this case knocking on, then failing to find touch from a penalty, i mean COME ON!

Also how strong is Hosea Gear? CRAZY! pointless going high on him.

I'd i totally agree about that cheap shot at the end from Powell, so stupid and pointless. *embarrassing*

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Flooz November 28, 2010 6:23 pm

I love donkey dick

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Alexander November 28, 2010 6:31 pm

16th!!!!!!

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Anonymous November 28, 2010 7:45 pm

Wales played their best game of the autumn series so far, but ABs just way too much talent and clinical finishing. How has Hosea Gear not been their #11 until now?

Re: Powell, I agree, pure swinging arm to McCaw's throat, no attempt to tackle or wrap at all, that's just pure frustration at failing to win for the 4th straight match. Should certainly be a citing, not the first one for Powell I might add. Credit to McCaw for going after him, showed the composure required of an int'l captain. Many other players wouldn't be so kind.

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Believer November 28, 2010 8:25 pm

Lucky for Wales that Carter had a majo off day both with the boot and in general.. If he'd kicked his goals and NZ had gone 23-3 up after 20 mins as they would have done, i doubt Wales would have scored again (they only scored 18 points because Carters missed kicks gave them the false belief that they were still in it) and i fear the AB's would have hit 50 or 60. Credit to Wales for what they did, but the fact such a poor (by comparison to recent weeks) AB's side which misses so many kicks can still win so easily just shows how huge the score would have been had they been on form!

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Anonymous November 28, 2010 9:24 pm

theres been major calls for gears inclusion by fans for the last 2 years. he'd been by far the best wing in the country but henrys insistence in keeping joe in the team and his love of all rounders (jane, dagg, ranger, toeava)who can play several positions over specialists meant gear missed out. Glad he finally got his shot.

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#3 in yo face November 28, 2010 10:21 pm

Well don't to the All Blacks, the cheatingest (smartest if you live in nz) team in world rugby. When they make documentaries about this era of all blacks the big question will be "how did officials allow them to get away with so much".

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Noms November 28, 2010 10:30 pm

I really enjoyed the game, I thought Wales played with alot of heart. I was disappointed with some of the reffing decisions though... It's like that Irish muppet was only watching the AB's all night and when McCaw got clotheslined he wasn't watching at all.

Are these refs getting suckered in by all the bitching from other teams and media?

The scrums are a shambles and I honestly don't think its either teams faults, its just poor reffing.

Touch.... Pause.................En.....En..........Engage

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the rake November 28, 2010 11:07 pm

#3 in yo face said... "Well don't to the All Blacks, the cheatingest (smartest if you live in nz) team in world rugby. When they make documentaries about this era of all blacks the big question will be "how did officials allow them to get away with so much"."

.. oh shut up.

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Anonymous November 28, 2010 11:08 pm

Its amazing how the kiwis can play like shit, but still thrash a side. 5 trys to 1 is a thrasing in my book. Can we get the kaino hit??

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Bill November 28, 2010 11:14 pm

I laugh my arse off how Wales always points to a point in the game when they were winning "at one point in the 32nd minute we were winning 14-12" like that means anything at the end of the game.
"We were winnign for like seven solid minutes in that game, and sure we then went on to lose 40-20, but if we can just stretch that seven minutes out to 80 or reduce the game to seven minute periods..."

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Jono November 28, 2010 11:20 pm

#3 in yo face said...

Usual bullshit from a bad loser.
The All Blacks won because they scored five tries to 1.
Wales are shit, that's why they lost.
Deal with it.

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KG November 28, 2010 11:30 pm

Normally, I don't really care about how McCaw plays the game. He repeatedly lay on the wrong side of the ruck throughout the game, particularly in the first half though and the referee never penalised. I thought, fine, the referee's going to be lenient on this aspect of the game. But just before half time, a Welsh player lay on the ball, just as McCaw had done all the first half and was penalised, giving the ABs the opportunity to cancel out the penalty Wales had just scored.

I just don't understand it.

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KG November 28, 2010 11:32 pm

Forgot to mention, McCaw handled the blatantly illegal and dirty move by Powell at the end. He kept his cool for a shot that should absolutely have been picked up by the officials.

I hope Powell gets the ban he deserves for that.

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goldenak November 28, 2010 11:55 pm

#3 in yo face said...
Well don't to the All Blacks, the cheatingest (smartest if you live in nz) team in world rugby. When they make documentaries about this era of all blacks the big question will be "how did officials allow them to get away with so much".

These kind of statements seem to follow the All Blacks like a bad smell atm, from the media, disgruntled coaches and fans etc. Yes I agree that the All Blacks push the boundaries of the rule book when it comes to rucks and scrums etc (especially when these interpretive 'rules' seem to change from game to game, ref to ref). Players like McCaw are legends for this kind of rugby. But dont tell me that Wales, the Poms, the Boks, hell for that matter every other competitive team in international rugby do this. What it comes down to is that the All black are number One, they are more heavily critised and analysed in the media, refs (especially Northern Hemisphere) come into these game with a quick blowing whistle for every infringement and penalty against the ABs. I dont mind this, just be consistent across both teams. This is highlighted in their last match where they were penalised for actions that Wales would get away. Case and point the blatant head high on McCaw.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 12:13 am

abs are a class team but they need 2 keep carter rapped up in cotton wool leading to world cup because without him i feel they wouldnt be that great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 12:44 am

Like it or not, new zealand are the greatest rugby nation ever. 75% win percentage is a better record than any other sports team in history (Apparently). Its just a shame they cant win world cups.. lol

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 12:48 am

Even more impressive is that Kaino wasn't going after some winger, he absolutely hammered a 2nd rower who goes about 120kg.

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Nicko November 29, 2010 1:24 am

Kaino is a monster... Imagine having to run the ball up with him lurking around. LOL

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Adrian November 29, 2010 2:00 am

KG

You are just talking crap. In fact you are lying.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 2:31 am

I think KG's comment just shows the blatant one_eyedness of non ab fans towards mccaw, yes mccaw usually ends up on the wrong side but thats usually because he is the tackler. he usually makes an effort to role away aswell.
Wales were horrible at this, most of the time not making any attempt at all to move yet the penalty count was ridiculously in their favour.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 2:35 am

i really do think that if we give slade a proper opportunity then we''l have the quality 10 back up weve been looking for. Why they persist with donald is beyond me.

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goldenak November 29, 2010 3:11 am

Lol maybe we dont want to take too much talent away from Canty (im a one eyed red and black supporter), imagine taking away slade, freun maybe maitland aswell as the usual cantab ABs, there would be no one left!

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 4:05 am

Although Read has gotten more headlines -- which he deserves, he's really improved this year as a player, is now an automatic selection at #8 -- Kaino deserves some plaudits as well. He's always had the athleticism, but there were questions about whether his skillset included the core role of being a blindside: workrate, cleaning out at rucks, and bringing that Jerry Collins-style physicality to every match. In the past year or so, he's shown that he can. At the current moment, gotta say Read/Kaino/McCaw are the premier backrow in the world.

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Simon7 November 29, 2010 7:06 am

I thought it was a great game but I am getting frustrated with the inconsistency of the refereeing.

I understand they have a very difficult job but it seems like refs are losing control of the games more and more. Also, the amount of reset scrums have become an embarrassment to the sport and do need to be sorted out quickly.

On the positive side, both back rows were outstanding....apart from Andy Poowell of course.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 8:45 am

how good was thorns little double pump to set up toeavas try. The guys a machine

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JDG November 29, 2010 9:15 am

Does anyone know if the Welsh player that took McCaw out with a head high has been citied?

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 9:19 am

I really don't think the AB's have got past 3rd gear once in this tour.

I have the impression this has been just a end of season stroll around the park for them after achieving their real goals in the summer by being the first team to go unbeaten in the 3N's. They would not have lost the match against Aus either if Henry had brought Colin Slade on tour instead of Stephen (I am so totally out of my depth at test level) Donald on tour. Actually this is the one selection that I will fault Henry on as even Toiava fronted up.

They've added Gear and SBW to their impressive back division and I feel that come October next year they will find another level at home. Such is the maturity of this team.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 9:41 am

all this moaning about andy powells hit, yes it was cheap and yes it was illegal, but i dont remember any of this moaning by the all blacks last year with a very simular hit on martin roberts by dan carter!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdWP8osXdaw&feature=related

View Video

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Adrian November 29, 2010 10:39 am

Use your name boyo.

The only thing Carter's and Powell's tackles have in common is that they were both high.

One was a desperation ball and all tackle on the run which ended up going high. It was replayed ad infinitum on the millenium screen, some dozy blonde BBC presenter demanded he apologise during the post match interview and Carter was suspended for a week.

The other was a swinging stiff arm delivered with the intent to hurt someone. We can tell this because he lined him up, had his fist clenched, held his arm straight and stiff, and twisted his arm so that he could deliver the blow with top of his forearm, which is much harder. Perfect clothesline technique. Strangely, the Millenium tv crew chose not replay this clothesline 15 times. No BBC presenter hunted him down after the match, to demand (on live tv) that he apologise to McCaw. And as yet he has not been cited, let alone banned for week.

Maybe Powell should join WWE or something. He looked better giving a clothesline than he did when Afoa ran straight through him on the way to his try.

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Yaris November 29, 2010 10:57 am

^^ Theres a huge difference between those two tackles anonymous. Martin roberts clearly fell into it, Carter still got a ban for it anyway. Powell's one was deliberate and a cheap shot.

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mooloo November 29, 2010 11:00 am

Anonymous said... andy powells hit, yes it was cheap and yes it was illegal.

You got that right. The rest is nonsense.

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NiWiTa November 29, 2010 1:32 pm

Yawn.......

NH bleating - Allblack are cheats blah blah followed by SH @Jono's typical arrogance - "Wales are shit"...

Thanks for another inciteful bunch of comments you amoeba brained SH and NH sacks of crap. I suppose at least Jono had the balls to put his name to his posting. Anyhow thanks for ruining this thread.....now f*ck off back to kindergarten

Wales were outmuscled in the backs sadly for them...That missed touch really was a turning point in the game. The All Blacks were perhaps not at their greatest. I do think Slade should get more of a run out so there is someone other than Donald to replace Carter. Anyone else agree?

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P Diddy November 29, 2010 2:01 pm

Andy Powell unloaded the high tackle after emabarrasing himself by missing the tackle on John Afoa that lead to the try.

He also appeared to do a high shot on Carter around the 70 min mark where Carter got himself lost with the ball and ended up turning it over and giving away a penalty. There wasn't a replay in the live game to see it properly, be good to see it.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 2:22 pm

Maybe RD can put both Powell's and Kaino's efforts in one vid?

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 2:53 pm

Credit to McCaw for remaining composed. Not a Kiwi, but this bloke has been getting cheap shots all over this month. Will Carling said it best, quit whinging, he's been the world's best #7 for a decade for a reason.

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Adrian November 29, 2010 6:55 pm

Gotta agree anon (Above). Stop the pointless blinkered whining and hatred.

Its a game. Enjoy it without the self-delusion. McCaw is an all-time great and you should appreciate watching greatness.

I'm a Kiwi but I loved BOD's running pick up and score - great stuff from a great player. Gregan was the most annoying little prick maybe ever, but I still recognise he was the games most influential player for a decade. Ashton's try against Aus was overhyped for sure but still brilliant.

Enjoy the game instead of fabricating reasons to hate the opposition.

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meh November 29, 2010 7:00 pm

Good to see the ABs actually getting penalized at the breakdown for once; you could tell by their confused looks they aren't used to it. That said, I do think Wales got away with a bit too much the referee either didn't see or let slide.

Alun Wyn Jones was a dick the whole match. First, he takes off Muliaina's shoe and tosses it to the sideline, then later, he takes Brad Thorn to the ground around the neck when he was nowhere near the ball/action. Not only that, but he was a bit inconsequential to the game all around - do Wales not have a better option for lock?

Shane Williams and Jamie Roberts are desperately needed - their input into the Welsh game is really seen in their absence. Shanklin did well to make some breaks, but he doesn't quite have the power and hand-off ability as Roberts. And I wonder why Halfpenny was left out - is he still injured? The commentators were talking about him, so I didn't know if he was left out for no good reason or what. They can make the line breaks, but then they lose the ball; if Wales can work on getting their offloads right, they'll be a vastly improved side.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 7:03 pm

Byrne could learn so much from Muliana's performance in this match. Crisp handling, great running lines, classy decision making, always looking for work. Those are the qualities of an elite fullback.

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meh November 29, 2010 7:04 pm

And yeah, while I was pleased to see NZ get penalized if/when they deserved it, I also think McCaw is one of, if not the best number 7 the modern game has seen. Wales could do well to get a flanker who can poach balls like that.

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KG November 29, 2010 8:43 pm

"KG

You are just talking crap. In fact you are lying."

Adrian

Please explain.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 8:48 pm

Just a thought for my NZ friends. If you are so strong how come have you been able to win the World Cup only once? Maybe..you have to concede you should share your "greatness" with more teams.

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KG November 29, 2010 8:52 pm

"I think KG's comment just shows the blatant one_eyedness of non ab fans towards mccaw, yes mccaw usually ends up on the wrong side but thats usually because he is the tackler. he usually makes an effort to role away aswell.
Wales were horrible at this, most of the time not making any attempt at all to move yet the penalty count was ridiculously in their favour."

Just a comment on what I observed during the match and that comment was against the referee, not McCaw. I'm sorry if you don't like complaints about McCaw, but he was often on the wrong side of the ruck during this match and a Welsh player was penalised for being in exactly the same position McCaw was in minutes earlier.

Except for my own team, the ABs are my favourite team and I'm not exactly a Welsh fan... I don't have anything against McCaw or the All Blacks so please don't try to blame my point on some sort of dislike of the team.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 9:45 pm

Is RD having a joke? All Blacks pushed by wales?

It was close for about 10 minutes, 5 tries to 1... That is a thrashing.

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 9:57 pm

Rugby = ruined, changed beyond all recognition.

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byrne makes mistakes November 29, 2010 10:01 pm

Dunno, anonymous, for a long time, Wales had territorial advantage over NZ and pushed their defense. It's not to say that NZ were ever really under threat of losing, given that Wales couldn't finish off a try if their careers depended on it (not to be harsh on Wales, as they're just following the non-finishing abilities shown by NH teams in almost every match this series).

And while their defense is what let Wales down, I think they put up a decent fight there. I was more proud of Ireland the other week than Wales this week, but still, they didn't just roll over die after NZ scored a couple of tries (not until the last 20 minutes or so, anyways).

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Anonymous November 29, 2010 10:41 pm

Hook is overrated.

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disagree November 29, 2010 10:52 pm

Hook is one of the few that performs well for Wales almost every time. I say "almost" because he fell short of the standard he sets this time around - but that's a testament to NZ more than anything in that they're so quick to swarm on someone who breaks their line, so Hook hardly ever gave an offload.

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secondfive November 29, 2010 11:38 pm

Anonymous said... Just a thought for my NZ friends. If you are so strong how come have you been able to win the World Cup only once? Maybe..you have to concede you should share your "greatness" with more teams.

If you want to "share the greatness" then it's up to other countries to beat them more often. NZ just won the Tri-Nations 60, and recorded their third Grand Slam in a row. Who do you think they should be sharing this with?
I'm sure NZ would like to win a WC next year but I think they could also miss out again, that's the nature of sport. And whoever wins it will rightly earn some greatness of their own.

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Adrian November 30, 2010 12:21 am

KG I'll tell you whats crap.

"He repeatedly lay on the wrong side of the ruck throughout the game"

Thats just unmitigated garbage. He did no such thing. I watched the game, and you are just making it up. You are allowed to have any opinion you like, but yours are based events that did not actually happen. All the accumulated bile has apparently lead you to hallucinate during the match.

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Noms November 30, 2010 12:36 am

@byrne makes mistakes: you are right, Wales did have a long passage where they looked to be in more control over the AB's... But they couldn't seem to turn it into points.

Nothing against SBW (he played ok), but the game changed when Nonu came on I thought... He was running straighter than SBW and the Welsh defense didn't handle it as well.

Carer missing a few probably evened up the score sheet too, the game was much closer than 5 tries-1.

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Jono November 30, 2010 12:41 am

Sorry for calling Wales shit, I didn't mean tio hrut your feelings Niwita, but the fact is they are playing appallingly at the moment.
Forget the NH/SH thing, they haven't won against decent opposition in like a year or two.
They drew at home with Fiji.
Their defence is soft atm.
It's just the truth.

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KG November 30, 2010 1:55 am

"Thats just unmitigated garbage. He did no such thing. I watched the game, and you are just making it up. You are allowed to have any opinion you like, but yours are based events that did not actually happen. All the accumulated bile has apparently lead you to hallucinate during the match."

Watch the game again. What I said was based on this game only and was against the ref. If I didn't see it, I wouldn't have said it. As I said, I am a fan of the ABs and am not out to give them a bad name.

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walden November 30, 2010 2:39 am

This is just one example, and not willing to go back and re-watch and then take out every example from the match, I think it's fair to say McCaw more than once found himself on the wrong side of the ruck.

Nothing serious. It happens. No discredit to him as a player; McCaw is still the superstar he's always been, because he's a tremendous athlete, a sneaky flanker, and a terrific captain.

youtube.com/watch?v=4k7RL--8hig

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Adrian November 30, 2010 3:02 am

Thanks Walden.

McCaw is on his feet and from behind the last foot and tries to play the ball. Watch again bud. He is actually pushed/tackled onto the Welsh side by the Welsh 6. He doesn't dive there and he doesn't slow the ball or anything. Its completely innocuous.

Your BIG example of cheating McCaw is him being driven onto the Welsh side by a Welshman and then not interfering with the ball.

PS. Thats an interesting clearing out technique there. Maybe the AB's should clean out rucks by pulling/pushing the defenders back onto their own side. It makes it easier to stomp on the opposition right in front of the ref.

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walden November 30, 2010 3:43 am

Not sure how it was a big example of what KG was talking about, just the only clip I had on hand of what he was getting at.

You seem to be steadfast in your opinion, though, so no worries. I'll just leave it where it is.

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Jono November 30, 2010 4:03 am

Walden, what Mccaw did there was completely legal, and I'm no kiwi.
He was competing for the ball, was then pulled from his poition and immediatly stopped playing the ball.
He then got illegally rucked out of the way (which is fine, he was in the way).
Mccaw will attack eevry ruck, it's his job, doesn't make it an ilegal ruck.

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walden November 30, 2010 4:13 am

I didn't say it was illegal (though, by definition, being on the ground in or near the ruck is illegal) or a grievous offence.

I thought the original comment was that he was on the wrong side of the ruck all match; that was just an example of it. I didn't say he dove over the ruck to kill the ball, either. That wasn't an example of cynical play or anything.

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Jono November 30, 2010 4:37 am

Fair enough

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Jono November 30, 2010 4:39 am

Oh, and just the act of being on the ground near a ruck isn't illegal.

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Adrian November 30, 2010 4:46 am

Walden - Fair enough.

My response was really to 'KD' who believes that McCaw was cheating at every ruck and bemoaned how unfair it was that Gethin Jenkins was penalised for doing the 'same' thing.

Jenkins dived on top of the ball from the side having never retreated, and didn't move. He did it to kill the play because the half time whistle had sounded and the AB's were trying to get a last attack in. That is cheating, and if any AB had done similar I would welcome them being pinged for it.

Most of what people complain about is not illegal or cheating. There is no problem with ending up on the wrong side of a ruck provided you didn't dive there and you get out of the way. AB players such as McCaw will often end up on the wrong side because they win the physical battle in the tackle before any ruck has formed, coz they get there before the opposition and they attack the post-tackle situation as a ball winning situation. None of that is cheating - its good play.

The incessant whining pisses me off because it is a pathetic substitute for NH players getting fitter, faster and better. Look what Eng achieved against Aus when they took them on properly at the tackle. Furthermore this chorus just creates a pervasive atmosphere where it is now apparently okay to dive into McCaws face with your elbow or clothesline him in the open field. Apparently he deserves it.

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Tim November 30, 2010 8:37 am

Well said Adrian.

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NiWiTa November 30, 2010 1:58 pm

Hey @Jono - fairpoint in that Wales keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...although in this case it was pretty much always going to be defeat.

I am an England fan so am not having a go at Wales per se here. Why is it that there hasn't been more success for Wales in recent years. There are a some fine players in the team (e.g. Hook, Phillips etc..). Does anyone think it is game management skills from Gatland the coach?

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welshevans November 30, 2010 4:37 pm

from a welsh point of view,the All Blacks "cheating" is what wins them games,all this moral play to the rules rubbish,if you can do it,why not?

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Douglas November 30, 2010 5:21 pm

@Adrian: agree completely. The bottom line is if NH players want to compete with McCaw, then get fitter, play harder, and do the fundamentals as well as the ABs do. Taking cheap shots on him is apparently the strategy some players have decided to go with, which isn't what rugby is about.

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KG November 30, 2010 7:10 pm

"My response was really to 'KD' who believes that McCaw was cheating at every ruck and bemoaned how unfair it was that Gethin Jenkins was penalised for doing the 'same' thing.

...

The incessant whining pisses me off because it is a pathetic substitute for NH players getting fitter, faster and better. Look what Eng achieved against Aus when they took them on properly at the tackle. Furthermore this chorus just creates a pervasive atmosphere where it is now apparently okay to dive into McCaws face with your elbow or clothesline him in the open field. Apparently he deserves it."

If that's the way you wish to view my point, fair enough. No need to exaggerate or discredit what I (or others) said though. Luckily, the video shows that McCaw did actually lie on the wrong side and my comments were based on events which did happen. He may well pushed over to the wrong side but I'm sure a player of McCaw's size and strength could get out from there easily enough and he didn't make any effort whatsoever to move. He just put his arms up in the air and lay there. Anyway, I don't think being pushed onto the wrong side makes it legal to lie on the wrong side.

Cheers walden for posting that. Good to know that I haven't been hallucinating or lying.

PS Adrian, not sure why you think that many think it's okay to get McCaw like that. Most posters (myself included) seem to be unhappy with what Powell did and some (myself included) commended McCaw for how he acted.

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Anonymous November 30, 2010 10:29 pm

Too many silly, basic mistakes e.g not finding touch with a penalty, very weak tackling for three of those five tries, and a desperate need for another full-back!! Mr. Byrne is not the player he was 2/3 seasons ago it has to be said!!!

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Jono November 30, 2010 10:53 pm

I don't think the Welsh players are as good as they are made at.
Frankly Hook wouldn't get within a million miles of an All Black or Wallaby jumper.
Neither would most of the team.
Currently what really stands out for me is the Welsh defence.
It's not physical enough and they simply miss too many tackles.

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Rolly November 30, 2010 11:37 pm

welshevans said... from a welsh point of view,the All Blacks "cheating" is what wins them games.

but let's not forget the fact that they are generally more skilled and creative and often fitter, faster and more tactically astute. If all it takes is "cheating" then every team would be at the same level because every team tries it on. If you're always first to the tackle and breakdown you just get noticed more.

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Jono December 01, 2010 12:01 am

Any welshman who believes the All Blacks winning all the time is because they cheat is deluded.
It's that kind of attitude which will prevent them from ever competing with the All Blacks.
What you need to do is stop bitching about cheating, and lift the standard of your rugby.
Attack more, take more risks, take the kiwis on at their game, that's the only way to beat them.

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Sergio December 01, 2010 12:35 am

When you havent beaten the all blacks for over 50 years people will come up with any excuse to blame their teams loss on..

It also pisses me off when they still think of it as a win if they come within 20pts of NZ. Its just stupid!!

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Anonymous December 01, 2010 3:36 am

I live in Australia and all this complaining about Richie McCaw is laughable especially when the Welsh forwards were lying all over the All Blacks (of their feet at the breakdown) and still dont manage to get the turnover or slow the ball down.

All Blacks spent 3 minutes inside the Welsh 22 and scored 5 tries. Every time they ran they were penalized. Should of been a much higher scoreline.

Saying the All Blacks cheat is a sign of narrow-mindedness they are consistently the fittest and strongest team and by far the most skillful. do you really think they go out there with the mindset on cheating? i dont think think so I think people need to start thinking for themselves and revise the rulebook! especially ruck laws - just because a player is tackled doesnt mean its a ruck hence why richie McCaw always contests before a ruck is formed = legit play

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scott December 01, 2010 5:26 am

Yeah, it's legit play to play the ball before there's a ruck, anon, but once the ruck is formed (ie - an opposition player binds in), the defender (in this case, let's say Kepp'n McCaw) must no longer attempt to play the ball, must be on his feet, and join in rucking or get back behind the last foot. If he's on the ground, he must immediately roll away and get back onside.

McCaw plays brilliantly because he almost always gets in there before the ruck is formed and when he's getting cleared out, he places his body into positions that tend to give the defenders a split-second more to contest the ball. It's often so subtle that the referees won't call it a penalty. It's both brilliant and frustrating at the same time, depending on which side you're rooting for.

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Bruno December 01, 2010 12:58 pm

The Welsh backs lack creativity and look boring without Shane Williams. SW is a player that can slice open a defence with one run, and his absence just makes it painfully clear how much they depend on him.

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Adam J December 01, 2010 2:23 pm

There's a lot of hyperbole on here on both sides. Kinda depressing and funny to read at the same time.

My view is that the ABs look particularly special this year, but I do get sick of some people worshipping them like superhuman Gods - they are beatable like everyone else, which is why it's so frustrating when the NH teams show potential to do so but then fade away - for example, though England controlled the ball for the last 20 mins in their match, they still couldn't quite break down the 14 man defence. Same with Ireland before half-time, same with Wales when they were a point or so behind. That's what seperates the ABs from the rest of us at the moment - the old TCUP principle that served the 2003 England team so well.

I think it's unfair to single out McCaw as a repeat wrong-side-of-the-ruck offender, as everyone seems to be doing it nowadays. The ruck itself is a bit of a mess - does anybody know when rucking itself was outlawed? If there was ever an example of pointless meddling leading to unforseen consequences, the outlawing of rucking is that. As a direct result of that simple rule change, we had massive problems for years with the ruck and it's still not perfect, with too many wooly rule interpretations and flankers taking advantage of not being rucked out the other side. Just my opinion. McCaw is a legend for a few reasons - he plays these rules perfectly, is tough, calm, inspirational, and has the mark of a good captain in that he has aura - he can drag players through the toughest of times, because you know he will be there and leading the charge. He's got an air of Martin Johnson, or perhaps John Eales, or Francious Pienaar.

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Anonymous December 01, 2010 4:27 pm

So was Andy Powell not cited for that swinging arm on McCaw's throat? If so, disgraceful.

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BearGryllsFurCoat December 01, 2010 6:44 pm

Don't think he was. McCaw's made of tough stuff though and not (usually)one to complain. I've read a lot about 'over rated' players on this site today and I reckon Powell is the best example of that. Cheapest Lions cap ever given out if you ask me.

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Anonymous December 01, 2010 7:27 pm

Hartley and Powell both deliberately throw a forearm to McCaw's throat, with neither getting cited or even a card. Pretty atrocious from the IRB.

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Mac December 01, 2010 9:12 pm

I keep googling "powell cited" ... nothing!

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