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Monday, December 13, 2010

Paul O'Connell red card for swinging arm on Jonathan Thomas

Paul O'Connell red card for swinging arm on Jonathan Thomas

Munsters Paul OConnell saw red within a few minutes of returning to Heineken Cup rugby last night, after a lengthy injury layoff had resigned him to the side lines for six months. The return to action, and the 22-16 win over the Ospreys, was marred though by his swinging arm on Jonathan Thomas.

British & Irish Lions captain OConnell will face a disciplinary hearing sometime this week that will determine whether or not he receives further punishment after receiving the card for lashing out at Thomas, who was holding him from behind.

The experienced second rower had his back to Thomas and while he pleaded his innocence to referee Christophe Berdos, he unfortunately did catch the Ospreys forward quite badly in the face, causing him to slump to his knees. It didnt seem malicious, but was reckless, so youd think that will play probably play in OConnells favour when it comes to the hearing.

If things dont go well for him though, he could find himself missing the start of the Six Nations, which kicks off in just eight weeks time. Munster coach Tony McGahan said after the match theyll let the process take place and deal with the outcome then.

"We only had a brief look at it. We really havent looked at in depth enough to give any real comment. I suppose we saw what everyone else saw, a holding onto the jersey, a reaction towards that.

"Well have to let the process take its course and well abide by whatever decision is given."

Ospreys forwards coach Jonathan Humphreys said that OConnell is not a dirty player, but he will likely miss a large chunk of the season.

"A similar thing happened to Gavin Henson for a similar incident and unfortunately he got 10 weeks for that," added Humphreys, hinting that O'Connell will be out for some time.

What's your opinion on the red card, and do you think he'll get a hefty suspension?

Posted at 10:51 am | 174 comments

Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play

Viewing 174 comments

Baz December 13, 2010 11:38 am

First!

I think thats careless rather than reckless, probably a yellow, nothing more.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:44 am

Soft, talk about your soccer player dives

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:45 am

Looks like another holiday For O'Connell. If they hit him with a lengthy ban he's going to have to work really hard to get game time before the world cup.

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swissvinch December 13, 2010 11:45 am

Jonathan Thomas is often playing that kind of role. This time he got the stick... Unlucky for POC,what can be seen as a reflex swing was performed just in front of the ref.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:48 am

The guy is a cunt... he knew where Thomas was, he just swung his arm and didn't get away with it... Red card no doubt

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:48 am

Can you put up a video of the Henson incident? I remember it being fairly similar and he got 10 weeks for it.

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eric December 13, 2010 11:49 am

exactly, that was a reflex move... and i'm not sure tht was a dive, that was quite a nice elbow to the jaw... or maybe it was a great performance by jonathan thomas.. definately no ban

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Avril December 13, 2010 11:51 am

what a takedown... it wouldnt surprise if your man actually did hit the deck for real...he's a tough man and we need him for further games. just his luck to get caught first night back.... but in saying that as captain of a team he needs to live up to a certain standard... and not swing at people no matter how frustrated he gets...

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:55 am

henson broke alex morenos nose and had a 3 week ban (originally 10 reduced to 3 on appeal), typical ospreys getting their facts wrong and trying to get opposition players banned

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jono December 13, 2010 11:58 am

not sure about that. for someone with his experience he shouldn't react in that way. it is an understandable reaction as i know i personally have had situations similar to that. definately a cardable offence, off the ball, after the whistle. i think what made it a red was the fact that it was elbow to face/neck which could be particularly dangerous. just one of those things that happens in rugby unfortunately being such an intense and physical game.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 12:01 pm

This is a reckless swing which happens week in week out. I dont think there was any malice in it whatsoever. I dont think Jonathan Thomas dived or made a meal of it to be honest, he got a forearm to the face from POC! Most people would not be able to stand up after that. O'Connell will probably get a ban but it should not be more than 4 weeks. It is an unfortunate situation.

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RedYeti December 13, 2010 12:05 pm

If you want to claim Thomas dived, how about you take a full force smash in the face from 6'6" 17.5 stone POC and stay on your feet...

The debate about red or yellow is pretty irrelevant people, the offense happened after the 70 minute mark

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bradders December 13, 2010 12:13 pm

I dont think Thomas would have dropped unless it was some contact - he is offside and pulling on POC which isn't the wisest thing to do!

Unfortunately you force the ref's hand if you strike another player in the face intentionally - POC knew where Thomas was and gave him a fair whack!

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The Frenchman December 13, 2010 12:15 pm

"Reflex swing" for a gorilla maybe, not for a rugby player... For sure it is intentional ! O'Connell just underestimated the speed of Thomas turning around him. He wanted to hit him, but not that strong.
Yellow maybe, but when a guy gets used to never be punished, red is not scandalous. And a few weeks of meditation won't be bad either. O'Connell is not a brute, he just needs to stop thinking he's God down on the field...

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Drbeatz December 13, 2010 12:18 pm

Dont forget Gavin Henson little kick he threw after quite clearing showing he wanted to do damage. I would guess o'connel will get 5 weeks.

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PG December 13, 2010 12:27 pm

Nothing in that. Careless - yellow. Ban? Hope not...

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 12:34 pm

His arm is swinging before he turns he turns his head although O'Connell does have hold of him with his other hand so can't have expected to hit thin air. It was a back of the hand slap at worst, a yellow, not a red.

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Phil December 13, 2010 12:36 pm

Looks like red to me, the way he coiled his arm back first so as to get the biggest swing possible, therefore making at least two movements, not just one reactionary movement.

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Fridge December 13, 2010 12:37 pm

POC doesn't do things accidently.

He knew exactly where JT was amd struck out.
I remember Nathan Hines doing something very similar a couple of years ago in the 6N.

Definate Red card, striking an opponants face.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 12:42 pm

definite red, looked like he should have a 4 week ban for that
O'Connell knew exactly what he was doing there and so it is viewed as malicious

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Mike December 13, 2010 12:42 pm

He didn't look where the guy was until he had nearly hit him, so it wasn't aimed, but it was a stupid thing to do. You can argue it should have been yellow (you rarely get a red even for a proper punch) but I'm a Munster fan and I'm not going to complain about the red. The ref or the assisstants don't have the benefit of replays to see the tugging/lack of aiming. And aside from all that, you could still certainly aruge it was red anyway.

As for Jonathon Thomas going down - I don't blame him, it looked like a decent impact.

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Mike December 13, 2010 12:43 pm

Henson's one was different, saw a replay of it yesterday - he looked to see where the guy was, and deliberately struck him in the face with the point of the elbow. It wasn't a wild swing like this one.

On an unrelated topic, it will be good to see Henson back playing soon.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 12:46 pm

Thomas got what he deserved for cheating! Typical Ospreys getting away with it as usual!

POC didn't elbow him it was a backhand slap (well, more like a sonic boom), which probably did more damage than POC would have wanted to.

It was a penalty, probably a yellow card, but not red and definitely not further suspension - it wasn't like he was punching/stamping/eye gouging the guy on the ground or anything.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 12:47 pm

Deserved red, definitely looked malicious. You can see him glance over his shoulder to check where Thomas is before swinging his arm back.

The look on O'Connell's face when monsieur Berdos pulls out the red card is priceless, I'm still laughing. Hahahahahaha.

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VileShrew December 13, 2010 12:50 pm

"De Babylon, dem mek I and
I gwan be a bad bwoy, seen?"
And that, m'lud, is the case
for the defence.

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Mike December 13, 2010 12:53 pm

The usual anonymous trolls are out in force. And obviously failing, as usual.

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Flooz December 13, 2010 12:54 pm

i'm disgusted by some comments here.
i have the impression that people think that POC should be untouchable by his munster/ireland captain statut. Whatever it's red or yellow, whatever J.Thomas provocated him, it's a deliberate swinging arm.

it recalls me Murray red card few years ago. he had the good reaction by excusing himself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqmT1vjLmxU

View Video

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 1:03 pm

if you think that mealamu's ridiculous flying headbutt only got two weeks then this couldnt possibly get more than that. not that bad really but deffo at least a yellow

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Jonathon Thomas is a December 13, 2010 1:12 pm

What an absolute load. Jonathon Thomas is obviously provoking him, and he simply swings his arm to get him off him. He did make contact so I'd say a yellow, but a red is bullshit. And why does Thomas get off scot-free? He was quite obviously cheating, so why didn't he get any punishment?

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edbok December 13, 2010 1:18 pm

If it were up to me, I'd say the red card was sufficient punishment and move on. It was a swinging arm, it was reckless, but not convinced he was aiming at Thomas's head.

Any more than 2 weeks - the Mealamu standard for dirty play over which there may be a 1% doubt over the intent - would be a joke, but knowing the IRB and it's feckless affiliates, there's a good chance of a joke ruling.

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Mike December 13, 2010 1:25 pm

I think the one of the problems is that if POC had just turned around and punched him, he probably would only get a yellow. There's a bit of inconsistency there.

Flooz, I don't think anyone is saying he should not be punished at all. A few people have said it should have been yellow, I think probably red is fair, but I don't think that he should be banned for weeks for this.

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edbok December 13, 2010 1:36 pm

Message for all those crying "Jon Thomas was asking for it!" - please just admit you don't/didn't play in the back row and leave it at that.

Being a niggly git is a primary qualification for anyone wanting to play in the back row. You take chances, you get pinged some times and affect a turn-over another, on any good day you wind the opposition up... and some days you hit paydirt when a meathead loses his cool and gets carded.

But playing on "the edge" or whatever it's called these days is part of a back-rower's job. They all do it, it's a completely legitimate part of the game, whereas striking an opponent is obviously not. Even if Thomas had been penalised for what he did here, the penalty would have been reversed for the reaction. That's one part of how games are reffed that hasn't and shouldn't ever be changed.

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frank December 13, 2010 1:41 pm

strange o'connell's hand made contact with thomas's jaw/neck and he went down holding his forehead. is it just me; when i get hit it hurts where i'm hit!

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The Frenchman December 13, 2010 1:49 pm

Flooz is right, having "the impression that people think that POC should be untouchable by his munster/ireland captain statut." What is worse is that O'Connell himself thinks that. Some more humbleness would be welcome : he hasn't the excuse to be a stupid guy, and that makes a difference with some Munster fans around here...

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The Frenchman December 13, 2010 1:49 pm

Flooz is right, having "the impression that people think that POC should be untouchable by his munster/ireland captain statut." What is worse is that O'Connell himself thinks that. Some more humbleness would be welcome : he hasn't the excuse to be a stupid guy, and that makes a difference with some Munster fans around here...

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The Frenchman December 13, 2010 1:50 pm

Sorry for the duplicate.

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rodge December 13, 2010 1:51 pm

never a red, he was provoked, yelow card. it wasnt an elbow, if he's banned it will be for political reasons not the offense.

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Paul Gormley December 13, 2010 2:01 pm

Look Im an avid Munster fan and have been writing threads here for a number of years, I have written in the past about gouging particulary about the French and Argentinan players who have got serious bans and theres always French people writing in lamenting the fact the ban is as long as it is because they are french. Paulie deserved this red card without question, however his ban shouldnt be longer than 4 weeks. He definately meant to connect with Thomas without doubt but his disciplinary record would suggest that he wouldnt aim for a red card, its unfortunate and regrettable but these things happen on a rugby field. I was in Thomand Park by the subs bench last weekend against Cardiff Blues when he made his comeback and he was itching to get on, it was actually quiet funny about the 45th minute he went over to Shaun Payne and asked him could he come on! and when Payne said no he started cursing, it just goes to show that after 8 months being out which is a hell of a long time, picture being in the gym for 8 months thinking about being able to play again, when you take to the pitch, you feel you have a pont to prove and are extremely pysched up! I am in no way condoning what he did, but it is understandable when your desperate to make an impression and someone is holding you back, this ban will be hell for him, he is itching to get back but he will appear before the comittee this week, and his excellent discipline record should stand to him, reading the ospreys webpage rallying for support for the return should prove to be an excellent game next week.

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jpm December 13, 2010 2:19 pm

The same ref that failed to send off Burger in the 2nd test for eye gouging...costing POC and the Lions the series...now gives POC a straight red!

Talk about adding insult to injury!!

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JPM December 13, 2010 2:24 pm

It's a close one. However, I can't really argue with the red card though because POC absolutely clobbered him in the face.

Jonathan Thomas, funnily enough, is an annoying dirty player...far more so than POC. Remember that Rugbydump clip from last year when Thomas did 2 swinging arm tackles.....and I think he got cited and banned. I guess this is karma at work!!

+++
October 28, 2009

"Jonathan Thomas will miss Wales' Test against New Zealand after being found guilty of striking an opponent by a disciplinary panel on Wednesday.

Osprey Thomas, 26, was cited for foul play after coming on as a replacement in his side's 20-12 loss at the Blues.

The two-week ban sees Thomas sit out the 7 November All Blacks game but he is available to face Samoa the week after, as his ban ends on 12 November.

Wales coach Warren Gatland has not said if he will call a squad replacement.

One likely candidate to replace Thomas in the 29-man Wales squad would be his Ospreys lock colleague Ian Gough, although with Thomas only missing one game Gatland may stick with his current selection.

A Welsh Rugby Union professional disciplinary panel found Thomas had breached Law 10.4 (a) - striking an opponent - during the fiery derby between his Ospreys side and rivals the Blues on 24 October."

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HIG December 13, 2010 2:27 pm

Wake up people.

Just because you get your shoort pulled does not give you the right to strike a player....if you do you take your cahnces if the ref or linesman sees you.

If that were the case then Botha would not have been punished for headbutting Jummy Cowan when he, like THomas, pulled on Botha's shirt.

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ReJLoRd December 13, 2010 2:34 pm

I believe that was a Red Card. He had a hint of where the player was and took a swing. Got him straight in the face and thats a no-no at the professional level. Perhaps he needs more time to get his discipline right after his injury time-out.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 2:50 pm

its funny how pissed off the pikeys get. Contact to the head or neck results in a red card regardless

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 3:01 pm

Ginger pussy

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 3:04 pm

Defintly deserved to see tred over that but no one hear can say that o'connell is a dirty player and yes what he did was stupid but is impeccable discipliniary record should be taking into account,5/6 weeks max

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Huh!! the 3rd December 13, 2010 3:32 pm

Was at the match and believe POC deserved the red.

However, when Thomas was walking down the tunnel, he gave a celebratory fist pump towards the Osprey's bench. Watched the match when I got home, but it wasn't picked up by cameras.

I can see Munster's solicitors bringing in boxes of DVDS with footage of players reacting to being held back to defend POC. However, ''I barely touched him'' isn't a great defence.

If Heaslip got 5 weeks for trying to decapitate McCaw's head, can't see POC getting any more. In saying that, the IRB sanctioned Heaslip (he should've gotten more) while the ERC historically take a stronger stance on illegal striking.

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Huh!! the 3rd December 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Watched it after posting.

He really did sock him.

UFC Sat night there was a knock out very similar where the fighter just dropped like a ton of bricks from a shot to the jaw.

Far dues to Thomas for actually getting up and walking off regardless of my previous comment and some others above about acting.

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hm December 13, 2010 3:47 pm

@HIG What is a player supposed to do when the other guy is interfering with you playing rugby? Hanging out offsides holding the opponents jersey isn't rugby. The ridiculous length of bans these days provide an incentive for players to provoke others.

In my opinion interfering with players by holding their jerseys offsides, holding a players legs when he is standing and you are lying, or holding an opposing player in a scrum is worse than defending yourself, which is what POC did. It's not a macho trip, why give cheaters all the power?

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Mike December 13, 2010 3:49 pm

Ignore the anonymous trolls...

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Chris December 13, 2010 4:19 pm

This happens every game, several times. He was just unlucky in that he got his man good.

I genuinely don't see any malice in this. I seriously doubt POC would have intended to catch him as hard and sweet as he did.

Then again he did. So you can't really blame anyone else.

Just an unfortunate incident all round.

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Lucky Charmes December 13, 2010 4:24 pm

Typical stupid Irish fans sticking up for him, if it was accidental why didn't he walk over to apologise? Terrible Lions "captain", terrible ginger barnett.

Deserves whatever ban he gets.

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Stubby December 13, 2010 4:28 pm

I wish the video started about 20 seconds earlier to see what Thomas was doing. He seems to stumble into POC and POC attempted to throw him away from the ruck. Without those earlier 20 seconds it is impossible to understand what Thomas was doing offside.

At first it looked like Thomas grabbed the shirt to keep his balance but he certainly held on far longer than he needed. POC again tried to throw Thomas away but can't and then he swings his other arm in an attempt to injure.
You do not swing that hard to teach anyone a lesson.

All POC had to do to make his point was turn and give Thomas a solid 2 handed push to the ground.

CARELESS? lol the arm wasn't swinging because POC was off-balance, it swinging because he wanted to swat a pest. That is not careless.

REFLEX? lmao the 2 attempts to throw Thomas away from the ruck are reflex. The swinging arm is an deliberate attempt at payback. like Frenchman said: reflex for a gorilla maybe...

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 4:34 pm

Oconnell totally deserves the red card. It strikes at the face Welsh player hypocritically from the back, knowing very well where he stands and what is his direction, as he is in contact with it. I hope that it will get the suspension he deserves.
OConnell had been lucky in the fight with Cudmore two years ago.
Next, irish player i ll be glad to be suspended ; Flannery Dont ask me why, just watch some footage of flannery vs Palisson in 6 nations this year, and vs Carmichael Hunt (biarrtiz).

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 4:37 pm

"Yellow maybe, but when a guy gets used to never be punished, red is not scandalous. And a few weeks of meditation won't be bad either. O'Connell is not a brute, he just needs to stop thinking he's God down on the field..." THE FRENCH MAN I totally agree with you.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 4:42 pm

think it was reckless but not malicious and was provoked.not impressed with how the Ospreys Management are trying to influence the outcome of disciplinary hearing and do not comment that Henson's penalty was reduced to 3 weeks on appeal. Remenber Milaumu received 2 weeks for flying head butt. Think red card should be the end of the matter.Also think Thomas was promarily sufffering from "glass" jaw --must be watching too much socceer!

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Flarge December 13, 2010 4:48 pm

Looks like a yellow at most, thomas shouldve been warned cause he shouldnt have been pulling at him in the first place. Not ban worthy. It was the touch judge saying it was an "elbow" got the red.

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Jack78 December 13, 2010 4:50 pm

2 weeks should be enough. You see Powell get off scot free for what was in my opinion a much more dangerous foul on McCaw and it seems all the more unfair. Seeing as we use the video ref, there should be a little bit more consistancy in reffing.
Mountain out of a molehill in my book.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 4:59 pm

Typical commentating by Barnes would he have the same conclusion to his opinion if it was an English player who committed the offence? No doubt Sky will show the incident over and over again in slow motion if they have anything to gain from it!!

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 5:02 pm

Thomas...more like Thomassini or some other soccer sounding name

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 5:13 pm

check this out: troncon floors an annoying Pete Stringer some years ago...
he finally got red carded and suspended for a while...
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2008/01/alessandro-troncon-floors-peter.html

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Joel December 13, 2010 5:14 pm

"Soft, talk about your soccer player dives"

You try taking a punch to the face from him?

When you watch it at full speed you can see just how much force is behind the swing, full blow. Reckless.

In that decision referees such as myself say "if you have to think whether it's a red or yellow card, it's a yellow card". There must have been no doubt in the referee's mind.

Silly at the end of the day.

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H.I. December 13, 2010 5:39 pm

What a shit decision. If players pull you backyou flail out to try and get free. If PoC flails out, people get hurt. It's a man's game, and people need to understand that. At most penalty to Ospreys.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 5:44 pm

Henson had 10 weeks reduced to 3 on appeal, that's ridiculous, that they took so much off on appeal. Who decides this?

POC should get a month or so, after appeal.

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falafel waffle December 13, 2010 5:48 pm

I'm really not a fan of POC, as I think he can be a bit hot-headed and cynical at times, but this was absolutely not a red card...I don't even think it's a yellow. Thomas was unfortunate, to say the least...and I don't think he was cheaply tugging at POC or anything, so I wouldn't say that he deserved it either. Just unfortunate...for both players.

Regarding the tugging, as it does happen too often, if referees refuse to penalize that kind of cheap play, then at least allow players to retaliate. Otherwise, it's derisive play, like preventing quick lineouts.

What I took more issue with this weekend was the bitch moves where players were grabbing other players' scrum caps. That's one step away from pulling hair like girls. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Donncha O'Callaghan. Happened during the Clermont-Leinster match as well.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 5:51 pm

The Ref clearly said he was giving the red card because he struck with his elbow. As Paul commented, the ref didn't see it himself but had a chat with the linesman. On replay you can see its not an elbow, its not even a bent arm, he catches him with his forearm/wrist (Unlike Henson who quite clearly showed intent to hit with an elbow). A bit harsh I feel and Thomas must have an iron jaw for going down like that, I've seen a lot worse dished out without the falling like a sack of spuds. Back in the day if you were hanging onto someone like that and you got twatted for it ref's would just say you deserved it. Ah, the good old days.....

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 6:07 pm

Don't see that it's the same as Henson (his was a sneaky wee elbow) - Thomas was holding on to Paulie's shirt, (standard Ospreys game plan me thinks) well off the play so he got what was coming to him - He'll think about it next time I hope, more players should do the same as big POC - Yellow Yes - Red No

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(u-p)rick December 13, 2010 6:31 pm

This is actually one of my pet hates on a rugby pitch, this exact thing happened with Nathan Hines and Shane Byrne was it? I know players should not retaliate but there should be greater penalties for those who start things. Also see when Danny grewcock 'stamped' on ferris, personally I viewed it more as a step on, but grewcock was having his legs held on his own tryline by ferris who was lying on he ground, grewcock retaliated and got a red. To me this is sort of rewarding the team who is illegally winding up the opposition. Now ofcourse POC can't go unpunished but it should never have reached this stage IMO!!!! Or better yet punish both players.

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gerwyn thomas December 13, 2010 6:37 pm

did anyone else not notice the attempted gouging by varley on mike phillips whilst o callaghan was holding him down.another munster player gouging,disgraceful and cowardly,has to be cited,cheating munster get away with too much.gouging is the most cowardly act a player can do .MUST be cited

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 6:42 pm

Next, irish player i ll be glad to be suspended ; Flannery Dont ask me why, just watch some footage of flannery vs Palisson
Flannery WAS banned for that you paranoid French surrender-monkey.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 7:19 pm

bloody dirty oirish.

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Bowie December 13, 2010 7:20 pm

POC was an idiot to have swung his arm full stop - too much of a risk.

It does look like a soft fall from JT but these guys have got some big old arms on them so who knows.

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Moo December 13, 2010 7:34 pm

Thomas was cheating, POC was a prat and what's done is done.

However, did anyone else see that Leamy came in from yards away to punch Ian Gough (I think) over the top of the ruck in the last ruck of the game. I thought it was worse than the POC incident (though wasn't repeated ad infinitum by Sky Sports - in fact not at all!).

You would have thought he would have learned from what happened about 11 minutes before - was very lucky the ref didn't pick it up. One for the citing panel, I reckon. If anything is done, he'd be a big loss in the next game. From what I've seen, he's been Munster's most consistent player this year.

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handson December 13, 2010 7:58 pm

yea yea he didn't feel a thing, Malicious or not dangerous play and it shouldn't be allowed,Red card shame coz he is a great player

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:05 pm

trail by sky sports again... fuck you barnes you useless excuse for a commentator... anti-munster until the 1/4 finals....

swinging arm but not a red card....

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:05 pm

Thomas deserved a smack, or should at least expect to get a smack he was nearly hugging the ginger monster like his comfort blanket..

Great to see the Ospreys taking advantage of a 14 man Munster side..

Well done lads showed all the clinical tendancies of 'Bungle' from rainbow.. Your not winning it this year on that showing..

Don't care what you say, professionalism is ruining rugby!!

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:20 pm

Don't care what you say, professionalism is ruining rugby!!

Yeah especially when you watch Munster killing the ball all the time.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:30 pm

No way was that a reflex - he knew where he was without question! A cheap shot by a dirty and over-rated player!! Red serves him right!!

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:33 pm

bravo mr berdos to have the courage, in ireland to give red card to o'connell. How many referees do not have the same??

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:48 pm

I agree it should have been a red with a maximum of 2 weeks ban, but the number of French fans whining is ridiculous. Your players got what they deserved for thuggery and / or cowardice. It's pathetic and cowardly that you try to make this incident appear worse than it is and then keep whining about other incidents (whilst getting the facts wrong). It doesn't change anything that Depuis, Attoub, Cudmore, etc. did.

Personally, I'd be ashamed to be a French player or rugby fan. First you have gouging and other particularly dirty play by French players. Then you have coaching staff spitting on that photographer and saying he edited photos. Then you have all the faking and diving in almost every match. And now you have all the French people trying to dirty other teams' and players' reputations to make your players look less bad. Pathetic.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 8:51 pm

"did anyone else not notice the attempted gouging by varley on mike phillips whilst o callaghan was holding him down.another munster player gouging,disgraceful and cowardly,has to be cited,cheating munster get away with too much.gouging is the most cowardly act a player can do .MUST be cited"

Yeah, I remember the incident... except there was no gouging. Please stop trolling.

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Keano December 13, 2010 9:11 pm

Wat a joke of a decision. . Berdos is a terrible referee . . 2 wrong decisions in the match . . Paul james should not have been yellow carded . . And o connel deserved a yellow . . One because he hit him with the forearm not his elbow and two it was a natural reaction . . Thomas deserved it he tried to obstruct O Connel and got a slap for it . .

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Anonononononononymou December 13, 2010 9:24 pm

Goodness, a lot of Anonymous trolling going on in here it seems. What some of these comments have to do with the incident is beyond me, but I guess that's the beauty of the internet!

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DJ December 13, 2010 9:36 pm

thomas deserved the hit and o'connell deserved a yellow. simple as

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Mise December 13, 2010 10:13 pm

straightness of the arm is important, as is the lack of a look in advance. BUT he knew where Thomas was, because Thomas was holding him illegally.
Pen munster, then reversed and prob Yellow (prob not red) for POC.

Though I am in two minds about the colour of the card, on balance I can't see this as a ban.

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(u-p)rick December 13, 2010 10:20 pm

Having had the time to sieve through the bs troll comments and others, firstly and foremostly, Flooz do you actually read any posts before you post? Or do you just assume what people will have written and hope yours falls in line?

Secondly no one her is really defending POC we have gone from red card agree'ers to yellow card wishers. However whichever way you view it everyone has more or less mentioned the fact that Thomas deserves some punishment...... Whether it be in the form POC dealt in or whether it is a card or ban or something..... That is my great cry over this stuff. Yeh ofcourse POC hitting someone with his ape arm isn't going to go down well but he wouldn't have done it if Thomas hadn't been holding him..........

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(u-p)rick December 13, 2010 10:20 pm

Having had the time to sieve through the bs troll comments and others, firstly and foremostly, Flooz do you actually read any posts before you post? Or do you just assume what people will have written and hope yours falls in line?

Secondly no one her is really defending POC we have gone from red card agree'ers to yellow card wishers. However whichever way you view it everyone has more or less mentioned the fact that Thomas deserves some punishment...... Whether it be in the form POC dealt in or whether it is a card or ban or something..... That is my great cry over this stuff. Yeh ofcourse POC hitting someone with his ape arm isn't going to go down well but he wouldn't have done it if Thomas hadn't been holding him..........

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WelshOsprey December 13, 2010 10:29 pm

Cheerio Paul, enjoy your ban son.

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Bokke_2007 December 13, 2010 10:33 pm

1)Yellow not red

2) Soft No.8

3) Santa at 0:55

4) Go Bokkie

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 10:38 pm

About the only good decision the ref made in this game was sending o'connel off for this. This off the ball jersey grabbing was happening throughout the game, and more often than not it was an osprey's jersey being tugged. Thomas shouldn't have been there, but a penalty offence can't be met by an elbow/forearm/fist to the face. He should definitely receive a ban, though not a length one. Few weeks?

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mat December 13, 2010 10:53 pm

the whistle had gone, he knew where he was and threw an elbow at his head no excuse.
as for further punishment based on past incidents anything from full pardon to 2 years :)

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Jono December 13, 2010 11:03 pm

Nothing in it, the guy is holding his jersey, then crumples like a cheating soccer pussy when he gets hit.
Soft, socce rplayer diving should not be rewarded.
O'Connell barely hit him, red card is more than enough punishment.
The Ospreys coward should be banned for diving and bringing the sport into disrepute.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:16 pm

Not a red. The guy is puling him out of a ruck from the wrong side. Got what he deserved. If the ref isn't going to do anything about it then the players will. Its how rugby used to work in the past and it was much better than now

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:17 pm

i would say that's hardly even a yellow. the guy was being held and he swung. hoestly who hasn't had that happen to them in a ruck. it's part of the game and it was unintetional. absolutely no more than a yellow

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The Frenchman December 13, 2010 11:27 pm

(u-p)rick : "he wouldn't have done it if Thomas hadn't been holding him"... Poor guy, poor brain. Is this a new version of "for sure your Honour, I wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't looked at me that way" ?

When I was young my father taught me "don't do to others what you wouldn't want to be done to you". "Just like wind or rain, referee is part of the game", he also said.
Here in France, we respect our fathers.

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BrickFight December 13, 2010 11:28 pm

Anonymous said...

The guy is a cunt... he knew where Thomas was, he just swung his arm and didn't get away with it... Red card no doubt

I would've agreed with the cunt part, had you been talking about Thomas. He deserved that, no doubt in my mind. Seems like it should've been a yellow, but I can live with a red, I guess. If he gets a ban on top, they should give Thomas one for provoking him, that was horseshit.

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Anonymous December 13, 2010 11:32 pm

The Frenchman said...
(u-p)rick : "he wouldn't have done it if Thomas hadn't been holding him"... Poor guy, poor brain. Is this a new version of "for sure your Honour, I wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't looked at me that way" ?

When I was young my father taught me "don't do to others what you wouldn't want to be done to you". "Just like wind or rain, referee is part of the game", he also said.
Here in France, we respect our fathers.




You are an idiot.

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falafel waffle December 14, 2010 12:26 am

Frenchman, if I were tugging on someone's jersey, especially a moody forward, I would expect (and even appreciate) getting a swat, if not a full-on punch.

That's why I don't do it.

Referees don't penalize it (I can sort of understand why not, since they are usually preoccupied with watching other things at the breakdown and your eyes can't be everywhere at once), so they ought to let players do what they will.

Also, think about this: referees almost never penalize swinging arms at the ruck (ie - when a supporting player is trying to hold a defender in the ruck when he's trying to post, so the defender takes a big ol' windmill swing at the other one's arm), so why should they penalize it when it's even more deplorable nowhere near the ball or breakdown?

As I said before, O'Connell is a hothead and whines like a baby to referees way too often, but in this case, he did pretty much nothing wrong and I feel for the guy.

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Patron December 14, 2010 12:30 am

careless definately. intentional no. thats paulies first red in his career as far as i can remember, i think a yellow would have done but the red i think will act in his favour. the hearing will have to take into account that give the circumstances the ref dealed with the situation accordingly on the field.

as for the ospreys coach, what a sly bastard. henson as someone else stated was reduced to 3 weeks, while Thomas was caught in the chin, the coach also said that he had stitches which is rubbish, he wasnt bleeding. the swinging arm was uncalled for but the ospreys coach should be a bit more c

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 12:56 am

Some idiot said

''Yeah especially when you watch Munster killing the ball all the time.''

Don't know what game you were watching, but Munster played all the rugby and Ospreys should've had a binning earlier than the prop going off, professional, cynical on their goal line.

''did anyone else not notice the attempted gouging by varley on mike phillips whilst o callaghan was holding him down.another munster player gouging,disgraceful and cowardly,has to be cited,cheating munster get away with too much.gouging is the most cowardly act a player can do .MUST be cited''

My first reaction was it was one of his own team mates. If its the incident I'm thinking about. In fairness, there was alot of hands in the face from both sides.

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Slugby December 14, 2010 1:37 am

"Jono said...
Nothing in it, the guy is holding his jersey, then crumples like a cheating soccer pussy when he gets hit.
Soft, socce rplayer diving should not be rewarded.
O'Connell barely hit him, red card is more than enough punishment.
The Ospreys coward should be banned for diving and bringing the sport into disrepute."

December 14, 2010 12:03 AM


" jono said...
not sure about that. for someone with his experience he shouldn't react in that way. it is an understandable reaction as i know i personally have had situations similar to that. definately a cardable offence, off the ball, after the whistle. i think what made it a red was the fact that it was elbow to face/neck which could be particularly dangerous. just one of those things that happens in rugby unfortunately being such an intense and physical game."

December 13, 2010 12:58 PM

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 1:57 am

look thomas was swinging out of him he is lucky thats all he got. red is a bit harsh though I taught it was a yellow it's wat u get when u let the french ref

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The frenchman December 14, 2010 2:18 am

Here in France, we speak French.

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Stubby December 14, 2010 2:34 am

J Thomas was killed today by a reckless swinging but unintentional arm after pulling on a moody POC's jersey. The ref overacted by slapping him on the wrist. The IRB suspended the ref for stopping play to council POC.
Thomas was posthumously red carded for being a soccer pussy after falling down from the hit.

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jm December 14, 2010 2:52 am

Munster are a good side. They are also a very dirty side.

Anyone else see the irony that Berdos whips out the red for this immediately on receiving the touch judge's report.....and yet he did not give Burger a red card in the Lions series for eye gouging when he received info on that from a touch judge.

Maybe he is over agressive now that he got slated for the Burger no card.

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lenny15 December 14, 2010 3:07 am

how about "the tackle by Mealamu/Umaga on BOD in the lions tour of NZ.. disgraceful... " Poor old Irish are always so hard done by.. whinge whinge..POC is rubbish how he Captained the Lions is beyond me.. time to retire big red unit - blatant swinging arm frustration cause he never wins anything

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Port of Amsterdam December 14, 2010 3:14 am

No, Captain Hindsight, I don't really see any irony in that.

It might be ironic if Berdos gave POC a red based on the touch judge's report, but just the night before had slain a touchie for trying to give him advice on something else, claiming, "I will nowt haf zees! I listen...to NO touch judje!"

I doubt he's that dramatic, though.

I think that more than anything, it was an unfortunate turn of events in both situations. Burger ought to have received a red and POC ought to have just been penalized. Oh well, c'est la vie, I guess.

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Port of Amsterdam December 14, 2010 3:19 am

Wow, lenny15.

You're a tremendous voice of reason - and what's more, you do it in the humblest and most pertinent of ways. Dearest sifu, will you please enlighten us some more?

(try not getting so worked up by your own comments...no one mentioned O'Driscoll - you're the only one, and you're the only to get upset over it)

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(u-p)rick December 14, 2010 4:07 am

The Frenchman when you take a portion like that of what I said it sounds bad but it is out of context, I suggest you re read my post and comment properly, or I can sum it up 'jersey pulling needs to be punished as it can lead to this sort of stuff' I never said let POC off because he was provoked or whatever you're trying to insinuate....... Geez learn to f'in read!!!!

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 4:17 am

So Frenchman is that your way of saying 'well your honour i wouldn't have gouged those eyes except I'm French so I have to'

Did your father tell you how to surrender properly? How to make a White flag and wave it on a pole?

My father told me to never let a frenchman watch my back they'll either buttfuck you or surrender, I guess now if you look them straight on they'll gouge you.

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Jono December 14, 2010 5:01 am

Slugby, that fisrt comment wasn't me.
This may shock and appall you but there is more than one person in the world named john.
Brace yourself :
There are thousands of us!

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 5:27 am

I really can't see how people can say that's not a red (i'm neither a ospreys or munster fan). A forearm/elbow to the face is crazy. He knew what he was doing and got the correct punishment. If that happened to one of the folk saying he should only get a yellow I bet the shoe would quickly jump on the other foot.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 6:10 am

Powell gets nothing -- no card, no citing -- for trying to take off McCaw's head, and O'Connel gets red carded for this?

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Stubby December 14, 2010 6:33 am

It could be argued that Powell was actually doing something: tackling a player with the ball. POC retaliated after a whistle on a player nowhere near the ball. Bye bye POC.

Powell should have received some vacation for that travesty of a tackle. but the rugby gods are fickle or French :) j/k ! :P

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 8:30 am

For everyone saying "it's a yellow, not a red !" : as it was pointed out earlier, it was after the 70min mark, so red = yellow.

For those sayin stuff like "Back in the day if you were hanging onto someone like that and you got twatted for it ref's would just say you deserved it. Ah, the good old days" : yeah, you're right, rugby was so much better when you could walk away with murder attempts every weekend. Just playing the game without severly injuring someone isn't nearly as much fun.
I really dislike POC, I find that he's far too violent and vicious. But I hope he won't get anything more than a few weeks, because even the hit was really unnecessary, it's not that serious.

message pour "the frenchman" : merci de bien dire de la merde et de nous faire passer pour des cons. t'as russi faire sortir les dossiers sur Attoub et les blagues sur la 2nde guerre mondiale. Si t'es un troll, c'est pas super malin, si t'en es pas un, honntement je te plains...

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Danny December 14, 2010 9:05 am

"For those sayin stuff like "Back in the day if you were hanging onto someone like that and you got twatted for it ref's would just say you deserved it. Ah, the good old days""

Dont be such a fucking idiot. Obviously nobody went around killing each other, there was a mutual respect for each other and if you had the cheek to start messing about as Thomas did you got a slap to remind you this is a man's game and it shouldnt be tolerated. You've obviously never played rugby have you? Put your name in next time troller.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 9:24 am

Santa - Naughty List 0:56
What hasn't been mentioned is that Thomas is holding one arm up saying "look Ref I'm not doing anything..." while being sneaky and deliberate by holding POC back - Like players who lie over the ball but hold up their hands as if to show they cant roll away - then need a good slipper!.

I would hope Thomas might think twice next time but I fear not - he deserved the smack in the mouth.

Go big POC

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 9:43 am

@Danny : What would it change to put my name ? You're as anonymous as I am.
I played rugby for quite a long time. And I find it disgusting that you could/can just hurt someone in a way that he won't be able to play for some time, or worse. How can you talk about respect, when respect means sending a guy with the same passion as yours to the hospital ?
The "murder attempt" line was just a joke, an exageration to make clear that what was said was irony.

I'm not defending that stupid #8. What he did was against the spirit of the game. But at least he did not try to cause pain to POC.
"A man's game" is no excuse to avenge yourself like this. The referee was a few feet away. He saw the foul. He even whistled. That should had been enough.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 10:29 am

are you serious?

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 11:10 am

POC = pussy, ginger and a terrible Lions captain.

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No8 December 14, 2010 11:16 am

Right decision, no question.

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Dara December 14, 2010 11:48 am

I'm fascinated by these comments - all arguing over conduct in a gentlemen's sport, yet leaving abusive comments toward clubs, teams and nations. Wow! Really fitting

Hopefully Paulie will get the right punishment, not get off too lightly, but not fall subject to politics. Unlucky for Paulie, but you can't really go hitting people in the face.....

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fry December 14, 2010 12:30 pm

but you can't really go hitting people in the face.....

And why not?

I'd much rather see a punch than cynical cheating in a game of rugby.

---

But that's not really what happened here. I feel like people are getting out of hand, not really commenting on what actually happened in the clip. Thomas wasn't really pulling POC back that much. Nor did POC turn around and give him a Julian White to the face.

Nor was anyone was sent to the hospital (dunno why people speak in such hyperboles).

This was not "after the whistle"; it was happening at the whistle.

It was unfortunate. And while the effect of yellow at 70min is a red, the red carries with it implications for the citing commission. I feel that at most, this was a yellow, and something for Jonathan Thomas to learn from.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 12:36 pm

The Irish retards are acting like POC has never pulled anyone back in his career.

Get a grip you bunch of whiners, he was pinged for doing wrong. Stop being pussies and accept the punishment (whatever it may be).

Irish rugby gets its first Grand Slam in 4897 years and all of a sudden their players are the perfect.

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H December 14, 2010 12:39 pm

Imagine if JT had pulled him back and the scrum-half had sniped past POC because of it JT deserves it in my view. Same when Lee Byrne pulled Nathan Hines back, then dived like a little girl and same situation for Stringer and Troncon. Infact I hate all those players who did the pulling back.

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charlie December 14, 2010 12:46 pm

How can you say POC should get away with this!!! we don't play rugby with our elbows! it was an intentional swing with the elbow, towards his face. he knew exactly what he was doing, you can tell by his guilty reaction once he hit the guy.

this is not right to see in rugby, incidences like this bring a bad name upon the game we all love, so why would someone who supposedly is such a hero in their country act like a petty child??? he deserves everything he gets

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The Frenchman December 14, 2010 12:47 pm

Anonymous said...

You are an idiot




I say : you are an anonymous. Wahahah.

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H December 14, 2010 12:54 pm

Actually looking at it again it looks like the ref blows up because Thomas pulls POC back, then POC strikes and he blows up again.

P.s. wasnt saying POC should get away with it just that Thomas deserved an elbow.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 1:06 pm

To (u-p)rick

I read, I read but as youve noticed Im not perfectly bilingual, so dont punch me if slightly offside

I agreed with most of your post - maybe I should have said that first.
And I didnt mean OConnell is a murderer : his reaction is stupid but you know, who is without sin let him throw the first stone. Anyway if Thomas had to be punished (and there is no question about that), the ref had to do it, not POC himself. And no excuse for The-Great-And-Slightly-Arrogant-Paul-OConnell.

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The Frenchman December 14, 2010 1:16 pm

To (u-p)rick

I read, I read but as youve noticed Im not perfectly bilingual, so dont punch me if slightly offside

I agreed with most of your post - maybe I should have said that first.
And I didnt mean OConnell is a murderer : his reaction is stupid but you know, who is without sin let him throw the first stone. Anyway if Thomas had to be punished (and there is no question about that), the ref had to do it, not POC himself. And no excuse for The-Great-And-Slightly-Arrogant-Paul-OConnell.

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Von December 14, 2010 2:13 pm

H said...
Imagine if JT had pulled him back and the scrum-half had sniped past POC because of it JT deserves it in my view. Same when Lee Byrne pulled Nathan Hines back, then dived like a little girl and same situation for Stringer and Troncon. Infact I hate all those players who did the pulling back.

Including Jimmy Cowan shortly before being nutted in the back of the head by Bakkies Botha. I know Bakkies is a lunatic and the headbutt was inexcusable, but I remember sympathising with him a little bit at the time. He doesn't get that many chances to have a dart up the middle of the pitch with only one player to beat and when the cynical little bar steward Cowan pulled him back, well I can quite imagine how the red mist descended. More so than for O'Connell in fact as there wasn't really much at stake for him at that exact moment of the game.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 2:17 pm

These posts have become a tit for tat slagging contest. Stick to the content of the video.

As a Munster fan, POC connected with someone's face. Red and possible suspension should follow regardless of JT's pull back.

Oh, and everyone on here is anonymous, using a name and being recognised from other posts doesn't make you less anonymous.

Signed anonymous

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(u-p)rick December 14, 2010 2:40 pm

no anonymous it just makes it less complicated...

...we could all put a nickname as John but that wouldnt make it any easier, its just a case of easy identification so people know who is talking to them.

The Frenchman, I understand what you mean but my point is that, whilst POC's actions were reckless and should be punished, JT's actions were provocative and often lead to outbursts....refer to Nathan Hines on Byrnes, Trocon on Stringer, and to some extent Grewcock on Ferris...

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Big Country December 14, 2010 2:56 pm

It's funny. I think a lot of you guys must have been trained to play rugby in a much different manner than I was. Maybe you are backline players. In incidents like this it is Thomas/Stringer/Cowan that is cheating, not the guy trying to play defense. Refs almost never call that niggly holding jersey stuff unless the guy just kicked the ball. So WHAT IS A PLAYER SUPPOSED TO DO? Same thing when Grewcock stepped on the guy holding his legs away from the breakdown.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 3:42 pm

It's fun to see a feud between northern hemisphere fans. Kind of refreshing not being between SH and NH for once. Keep it up guys!

On topic: Didn't seem that bad... Lenghty ban would be rediculous...

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Luke December 14, 2010 4:53 pm

Red card.

Thomas deserved a slap.

POC was rightly punished.

Ban will follow.

End of story.

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Mike December 14, 2010 5:35 pm

Usual pattern on Rugbydump: First 10 comments, usually some decent points, intelligent posters etc.

After that the trolls join in, insulting everybody (so here, Munster, POC, Ospreys, Jonathon Thomas, then Ireland, Wales, France, Northern Hemisphere, Southern Hemisphere) and everyone reacts.

It's a total waste of time reading most of these comments unless you want to read a troll insulting you, your team or your nationality.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 6:18 pm

RED CARD...right decision by the ref

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 6:21 pm

If BOD was on the receiving end of that swinging arm, you'll see Irish fans up in arms calling for the guillotine. Precious bunch the Irish.

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numro 8 December 14, 2010 6:23 pm

+1 Mike. I understood immediately what kind of thread it was when I see 141 comments on a POC red carded vid. Absolutely useless. Hey RD, can you post others highlights of this week Hcup games ? Clermont/Leinster would be great! Thanks.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 6:37 pm

"How can you say POC should get away with this!!! we don't play rugby with our elbows! it was an intentional swing with the elbow, towards his face. he knew exactly what he was doing, you can tell by his guilty reaction once he hit the guy.this is not right to see in rugby, incidences like this bring a bad name upon the game we all love, so why would someone who supposedly is such a hero in their country act like a petty child??? he deserves everything he gets"

He didn't attempt to hit him with his elbow, nor did he actually hit him with his elbow.

He knew he hit someone, hence the reaction numbnuts.

You're either blind, retarded, French and / or Welsh....

"If BOD was on the receiving end of that swinging arm, you'll see Irish fans up in arms calling for the guillotine. Precious bunch the Irish."

BOD takes hits viscous illegal hits almost every match because too hard to deal with him inside the laws of the game. I don't here too many complaints though.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 6:47 pm

"BOD takes hits viscous illegal hits almost every match because too hard to deal with him inside the laws of the game. I don't here too many complaints though."

LOL, the Irish fans still cry about Umaga's tackle 5 years after the event.

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 7:16 pm

if thomas doesnt play POC of the ball then he doesnt get smacked in the face. simple.
what happens when someone holding you in a ruck and you smack them to get loose.
imagine if you got a card for that!
like tana said its not tiddlywinks!

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 7:18 pm

"LOL, the Irish fans still cry about Umaga's tackle 5 years after the event."

You get the odd one who mentions it and half the time the person mentioning isn't Irish... either a troll or someone from another country. For example, the only ones bringing up that BOD incident in this video clearly aren't Irish or Leinster fans.

Besides, what has that got to do with what I said? Irish fans don't complain about the fact that BOD takes illegal hits almost every match and usually being targeted by opposition teams. I was hoping the person responding to what I said would be smart enough to notice that I wrote "almost every match" (meaning it is a tactic currently being ) and that I was trying to avoid the Lions tour tackle. Oh well...

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 8:16 pm

Justice for O'Driscoll!!!

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(u-p)rick December 14, 2010 8:31 pm

F*ck me some threads need to be locked....or RD should become a username only place...

Or better yet, why doesnt everyone get a taste of rugby, a taste of the rules, an element of respect and slightly less over-inflated pride for their own country....

lets get things right here, POC should have been penalised...that could be a red, yellow, or just a penatly, im so beyond caring what it is now...however Thomas should not have put POC in that situation therefore he should also have been penalised (same again, red, yellow..i couldnt give a ****) this would therefore have nipped everything in the bud....

I dont think there would be much arguing on here if POC had been yellow carded and the penalty had gone against Thomas....

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Anonymous December 14, 2010 9:26 pm

Justice pour les Franais!!!!! Allez les Bleues!!!!!!!










Nous remise... :(

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Neutral Ned December 14, 2010 11:57 pm

Big Country said...
So WHAT IS A PLAYER SUPPOSED TO DO?

If the only way a player can deal with a jersey pull is to whack the guy in the head then he deserves the card. Same goes for the Nathan Hines incident that someone linked to. Play smarter. A neutral's opinion.

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fry December 15, 2010 3:30 am

"HHJ Jeff Blackett, (England) has been appointed as the independent judicial officer for the hearing that is scheduled to take place at the ERC offices in Dublin later this week."

Just saw the news...POC is fucked; Blackett loves him a suspension.

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Flipje December 15, 2010 8:58 am

Fully agree with the recent comments from Mike & Up-Rick. Some comments are useless and childish.

POC had a bad reflex, he got punished for it. Remind me "to a certain extend" of the stupid reaction from Swarzeski on Genevois. If he got suspended, I cannot believe it will be more than 1 or 2 game.

Hope we can see some nice rugby, as Clermont vs Leinster was a cracker. Lauaki was a monster. Happy for Clermont but I am really impressed by Leinster gameplay.

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Bas Horneman December 15, 2010 1:00 pm

Giving someone a red card for punching is fine. But consistency is key. Here. Why was this AB not cited?
A South African player would have been banned for a couple of years ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBflxiQwhp8

View Video

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Luke December 15, 2010 4:52 pm

agree with (u-p)rick.

Also agree with mike. About 140 comments to long but I suppose what is the point of a thread if not to discuss/debate an issue. Everyone is entitled to express his or her opinion but unfortunately people do not have to identify themselves. I think a moderator system needs to be put in place. Though obviously there is a lot of work involved in implementing this.

PS I am aware this is off point and therefore could be deemed as trolling.

PPS I am a long time reader 2nd time commenter and recognise serveral of the regular commenters who opinions I always make a point of reading because they usually have something insightful to say.

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Sam December 16, 2010 9:46 am

I'm kinda with Luke on this one, I rarely comment but I too recognise names throughout and look for them in each video because they tend to provide good comments. Unfortunately some anonymous comments are quite insightful so it may very well be the same anonymous each time bu it's impossible to tell. So whilst a nickname doesnt make you (theoretically) any less anonymous, it puts a unique name to a comment and from that the commenters tend to gain more 'respect' in my eyes.

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Mive59 December 16, 2010 1:57 pm

finally, Oconnel receives a four weeks ban. I think the ban suits the gravity of the offence well.

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The Frenchman December 16, 2010 3:23 pm

So do I.

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Anonymous December 16, 2010 3:49 pm

Here is Varley putting his hands where they shouldn't be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7AFKjjYXws

View Video

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Jimmy P December 16, 2010 5:56 pm

hey swung at someone in the face, why isnt this a few months, or half a year?

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Anonymous December 16, 2010 8:04 pm

The Frenchman, you're such a french cock...'yes i agree he deserves 4 weeks for lashing out' yeh and i bet if he was french you'd be screaming injustice....

Go wave your white flag...

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Anonymous December 16, 2010 8:46 pm

You've got to be a bit thick to think that a swinging arm making contact to a face isnt going to get a ban. O'Connel not the full package as he was holding as he threw the arm. Mind you he is the darling of the lions so maybe he better have prefferental treatment.

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Anonymous December 17, 2010 1:25 am

Anonymous said...
Here is Varley putting his hands where they shouldn't be


Yet Philips doesn't react to Varley at all. Its O'Callaghan holding him down. Citing Commis didn't deem it worthy and from both Philip's reaction (lack of) to Varley and lack of definitive footage; Not a leg to stand on.

O'Callaghan is a tool and both he and Philips were at it all game. Watch for Murphy's try, Philips doing pulling DOC.

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Anonymous December 17, 2010 4:33 am

So what did Thomas get for his part in this? A week ban? I'm all for punishing the instigator as well as the person who reacts, pulling someone back is a professional foul no? It's a foul against that exact person and surely bad sportsmanship.......personally I don't mind POC having a ban, he isn't my favourite player but I get annoyed when someones blatant cheating causes things like this and no says a thing about how that person caused the whole incident!!

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Anonymous December 17, 2010 9:14 am

should have been 8 weeks.

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The Frenchman December 17, 2010 12:32 pm

"The Frenchman, you're such a french cock...'yes i agree he deserves 4 weeks for lashing out' yeh and i bet if he was french you'd be screaming injustice....

Go wave your white flag..."



Thank you for your clever coment. By the way, you shouldn't bet so quickly, love.

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The Frenchman December 17, 2010 12:46 pm

"pulling someone back is a professional foul no?"

It is, as well as swinging elbow in the face is a brutality.

A foul is punished by a penalty, which wasn't done in that case and that is not right and J. Tomas is a cheater.
A brutality is punished by yellow or red card and/or a ban, which was done in that case and that is right and maybe next time The-Great-Paul-O'Connell will avoid making justice for himself...

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Anonymous December 18, 2010 1:45 am

"It is, as well as swinging elbow in the face is a brutality.

A foul is punished by a penalty, which wasn't done in that case and that is not right and J. Tomas is a cheater.
A brutality is punished by yellow or red card and/or a ban, which was done in that case and that is right and maybe next time The-Great-Paul-O'Connell will avoid making justice for himself..."

I can't understand you...

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Tommo December 18, 2010 10:29 am

Frenchman I dont mean to sound rude but don't reply to comments directly if you don't understand them, the problem is you're creating non-sensical answers when a question wasnt really asked. Someone mentions a proffesional foul on POC, from what I understand they're trying to say they understand and accept POC needed tone punished but that Thomas also needed a strong punishment to deter players from doing this. As for thehanding out justice part, POC was defending and a guy was holding him at the edge of the ruck, tell me the name of any player who wouldn't lash out? You think chabal or harinord....(can't spell) would stand there and say 'please let me go' (in French) or do you think they'd try to swat the person off, perhaps not with an arm to the face but some way!

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Andy December 18, 2010 2:45 pm

Well my opinion on this is that it's pretty obvious he was trying to give him a wack with his elbow. So he should be banned. No punishment for the guy holding him. It's illegal but only warrants a penalty.

However I bet it hurt like hell and he'll probably think twice about doing it again! Don't think POC is dirty he's just hard. In my opinion not a great rugby player though (except in the lineout)

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secondfive December 19, 2010 4:35 am

@Anon and Tommo. I fully understand the Frenchman's point. He agrees that pulling someone back is a foul and should have been penalised, but he thinks a swinging elbow to the face is a "brutality" that deserves a greater punishment. He suggests that POC shouldn't take the law into his own hands next time.
His English isn't perfect but neither is yours Tommo, plenty of spelling mistakes in there.

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Anonymous December 19, 2010 5:14 am

POC did not strike with the elbow. He hit him with the back of his hand. If he really wanted to cause damage he'd have used his elbow.

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Anonymous December 20, 2010 12:07 am

Munster are such cheats. As a club they believe they're above the law and they play some of the most boring rugby i've ever seen. So lucky that i don't live there, i wouldn't want to support such junk

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Anonymous December 20, 2010 12:08 am

Munster are such cheats. As a club they believe they're above the law and they play some of the most boring rugby i've ever seen. So lucky that i don't live there, i wouldn't want to support such junk

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