Monday, December 20, 2010
Xavier Rush sees red for dangerous tackle on Courtney Lawes
Rush, a former All Black number eight, saw red after he flew out the line to make a crucial momentum stopping tackle on lock Lawes as Saints were threatening after a move from deep. The hit virtually decapitated the England second rower though, who took it well considering the impact.
He got up, played on, but left the field after less than ten minutes. Its since been reported that hes fine and suffered no ill effects. Rush on the other hand, could be in line for a citing following the red card that was shown to him by referee Jerome Garces.
Lawes did dip into the tackle, but the Blues number eight - not known as a dirty player - was responsible for the point of contact, so unfortunately even if he would have hit chest high with Lawes standing upright, the result was ultimately dangerous.
"It was a physically intimidating game but we didn't take a backward step," said Saints coach Jim Mallinder. He said Lawes was okay after the controversial tackle.
"It was a big hit and anyone who takes Courtney around the head needs to be fairly high! Rushie is an experienced player and he has gone into the tackle and taken Lawes's head off. He was probably committed to it," he added.
Despite losing Rush, the Blues could have hung on for the win but errors and a late try cost them as they went down for their first home loss in 13 matches in the tournament.
Do you think it was a harsh call to give a straight red, or did the officials get it right?
Time: 2:22
Posted at 8:08 am | 171 comments
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Viewing 171 comments
RJ Crusader November 12, 2011 6:51 pm
Unlucky i reckon cos Lawes definitely was falling into him. Careless and dangerous though because he over commited so ref was right.
bradders December 20, 2010 12:50 pm
that was pretty bad - I dont think upon reflection he will complain too badley but a high tackle isn't a red.
I dont think Saints fans would have complained if a yellow was shown.
I dont think Saints fans would have complained if a yellow was shown.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 12:55 pm
Anyone else think it was mainly laws fault for dropping about a foot as rush was about to tackle him ?
mattmacleod December 20, 2010 12:57 pm
@bradders - that wasn't a high tackle, it's was a swinging arm across the face. I doubt very much whether Rush meant it - I expect he just mis-timed it, and Lawes did seem to dip at the last moment - but it was a definite red.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 12:59 pm
The fact that Courtney was on one of his knees at the point of impact ought to have a bearing on the outcome of any siting. Rush was clearly committed to smashing him at chest height (perfectly legal) and when the player becomes a foot lower what happens can be seen above! OUCH!!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:08 pm
No way, really dirty tackle. That was meant to do real damage. Good player, dirty as a s**t.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:10 pm
i don't beleive it to be a red. yellow card for a hightackle only
crouchy December 20, 2010 1:11 pm
"and Lawes did seem to dip at the last moment"
Are you kidding? He's doing a fucking lunge is how low he is. His right knee is touching the turf at the point of contact.
Technically it is high - but Rush did not aim high, Lawes slipped so low as to cop it round his melon otherwise it would have been a legal thumping chest-high tackle on a 6ft8in man.
Some bollocks comments on here.
Are you kidding? He's doing a fucking lunge is how low he is. His right knee is touching the turf at the point of contact.
Technically it is high - but Rush did not aim high, Lawes slipped so low as to cop it round his melon otherwise it would have been a legal thumping chest-high tackle on a 6ft8in man.
Some bollocks comments on here.
Gunnar December 20, 2010 1:14 pm
A red card for sure!
It's dangerous play and if he can't tackle properly (he's a pro for screaming out loud! This is what he does and he ought to know and behave better.) he should have let him go. The laws are clear on that point.
No player should be able to give a swing like that to the throat, no matter if it was intentional or not, without getting a red card from the ref. Security is always first!
Well done, ref!
It's dangerous play and if he can't tackle properly (he's a pro for screaming out loud! This is what he does and he ought to know and behave better.) he should have let him go. The laws are clear on that point.
No player should be able to give a swing like that to the throat, no matter if it was intentional or not, without getting a red card from the ref. Security is always first!
Well done, ref!
Colombes December 20, 2010 1:15 pm
i don' know if it was yellow or red, but it was definetly juge and too high. Lawes is very tall and hard but Rush took him right on the neck so it could explain the red.
but it must be said that lawes have suffered in this tackle what he did to others players on "at the very limit" tackles (vs bourgouin and montpellier)
but it must be said that lawes have suffered in this tackle what he did to others players on "at the very limit" tackles (vs bourgouin and montpellier)
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:16 pm
if Lawes had stayed upright it would have been a great ball and all tackle, unfortunate but not a red card
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:21 pm
yellow at most - look at both body positions, lawes is on his knees ffs
T
T
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:26 pm
def a red! neckbreaker....
Nice to get the foden run in the clip
Nice to get the foden run in the clip
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:27 pm
i agree with most of the comments here, Lawes ducked going into the tackle. Its so frustrating as a defender when you put your head down (as rush did) and commit to the tackle only for the attacker to drop into the tackle making it high. Rush still responsible though, yellow IMO
Irish Ref December 20, 2010 1:28 pm
hmmm, I do worry about this recent tendency to utilise the swinging arm tackle. It offers no rugby-advantage to be honest, so I can only assume its intention is to maim?
having said that, I think direct red was harsh. I mean, every rugby player knows you drop your shoulder to take contact, so if you're the tackler you know what's coming, a stooping opponent.
I'll ask it outright, what is the actual thinking behind the swinging arm tackle if it's not to maim!
having said that, I think direct red was harsh. I mean, every rugby player knows you drop your shoulder to take contact, so if you're the tackler you know what's coming, a stooping opponent.
I'll ask it outright, what is the actual thinking behind the swinging arm tackle if it's not to maim!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:33 pm
I never normally say this as I believe to be a tough game and enjoy seeing the borderline ilegal awesome tackles!!! But that was most certainly a red!! Without doubt and anyone who thinks otherwise honestly does not have a clue about rugby!!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:38 pm
Also you idiots saying he ducked into the tackle really dont have a clue!! Anyone who has any idea about rugby knows you hit contact in a low body position, its just physics!! A quality player in defence makes his decision on what he can see in front of him!! Pretty lame excuse to say the player ducked if you really think about it!
NickS December 20, 2010 1:40 pm
I think at full speed it looked like a red card offence but in slow mo I think its fair to say Lawes did duck in a bit which made it look worse! The tackle from Tom James on Ashton after Foden offloaded was more deliberately round the neck.
Colombes your point about Lawes' tackles on others is rubbish mate, they were legal but brutal because they were on much smaller men, they didnt even start low and ride up, they just totalled them. Presume you are a France/Montpellier/Bourgoin rugby fan!!
Colombes your point about Lawes' tackles on others is rubbish mate, they were legal but brutal because they were on much smaller men, they didnt even start low and ride up, they just totalled them. Presume you are a France/Montpellier/Bourgoin rugby fan!!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:45 pm
At 2.15 to 2.16 it does look like the ball runner has almost dropped to his knee prior to impact. Mind you who runs tall into contact? Yellow for mine
Nick December 20, 2010 1:48 pm
'Anyone else think it was mainly laws fault for dropping about a foot as rush was about to tackle him ?'
Because a 6'8'' it's hard to focus your tackle on a legal area. This comment would be worth something if Lawes was trying to pick the ball up off the floor but a it's not as though there wasn't a huge area to hit. Rush wanted to get an intimidating hit in. IT failed on both parts as Lawes was back up quickly, where as Rush got sent off and essentially lost Cardiff the game.
Because a 6'8'' it's hard to focus your tackle on a legal area. This comment would be worth something if Lawes was trying to pick the ball up off the floor but a it's not as though there wasn't a huge area to hit. Rush wanted to get an intimidating hit in. IT failed on both parts as Lawes was back up quickly, where as Rush got sent off and essentially lost Cardiff the game.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 1:50 pm
he didn't have time to duck he had just caught the ball his body position didn't change and his 6 foot 8 so even at a smaller height he will still be 6,2 which is still too high to be tackling like that straight red.
Chris Boy December 20, 2010 1:59 pm
that was pretty bad. esp considering how tall lawes is
rodofle December 20, 2010 2:00 pm
Tackle in the throat... Anyone who's ever been hit by a swinging arm in the throat will understand that it's definitely worth a red card! That's one of the most dangerous thing to do on a rugby pitch, really. People who deny this never played rugby.
Chris December 20, 2010 2:03 pm
Not a red, not even a yellow.
Look, the question you need to ask yourself is this; If Lawes didn't slip, would the tackle have been high or illegal in anyway?
You cannot blame Rush in anyway, he went for a ball and all tackle, and Lawes slipped into it.
I can sympathise with the refs, they have 1 real time view and have to make their decision. We have the benefits of replays.
I'll ask again; If Lawes didn't slip, would the tackle have been high or illegal in anyway?
Look, the question you need to ask yourself is this; If Lawes didn't slip, would the tackle have been high or illegal in anyway?
You cannot blame Rush in anyway, he went for a ball and all tackle, and Lawes slipped into it.
I can sympathise with the refs, they have 1 real time view and have to make their decision. We have the benefits of replays.
I'll ask again; If Lawes didn't slip, would the tackle have been high or illegal in anyway?
Stubby December 20, 2010 2:20 pm
without the advantage of replays, the ref really has no choice but to award a red. He did however consult his touch judge to confirm his judgment. Notice how he did not tell the touch judge his decision but asked for his instead. Good reffing that! Not influencing his touch judge's opinion.
however Lawes did slip bringing his neck down to where his chest would have been. So Rush/Cardiff got screwed. $hit happens.
however Lawes did slip bringing his neck down to where his chest would have been. So Rush/Cardiff got screwed. $hit happens.
BigBucks December 20, 2010 2:22 pm
Looks a lot worse at full speed. The action replays shows that it just looked like a sloppy tackle. Reckless at most and should probably of been a yellow - and ended at that.
As the RD post mentions, Lawes slipping/ going to ground before the tackle made it look worse as well as contact to the head became almost inevitable in the scenario
As the RD post mentions, Lawes slipping/ going to ground before the tackle made it look worse as well as contact to the head became almost inevitable in the scenario
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:27 pm
I can see why the ref gave a red - in real time it looks really bad. Its only in slo-mo that you see Lawes slipped down at the critical moment - had he not slipped it would have been a well timed move-halting tackle. I guess that will be taken into account when deciding the length of the ban.
Going slightly off topic I thought the Saints try at the end to win the game was decidedly dodgy. I've only seen it via Sky's ultra-brief highlights - any chance of a longer clip?
Going slightly off topic I thought the Saints try at the end to win the game was decidedly dodgy. I've only seen it via Sky's ultra-brief highlights - any chance of a longer clip?
Chris December 20, 2010 2:27 pm
The fact is Lawes didn't slip.
-----
Are you serious? Even people who believe he deserved the red have recognised the fact Lawes slipped
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Are you serious? Even people who believe he deserved the red have recognised the fact Lawes slipped
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:29 pm
'Because a 6'8'' it's hard to focus your tackle on a legal area. This comment would be worth something if Lawes was trying to pick the ball up off the floor but a it's not as though there wasn't a huge area to hit. Rush wanted to get an intimidating hit in. IT failed on both parts as Lawes was back up quickly, where as Rush got sent off and essentially lost Cardiff the game.'
I totally agree that rush was trying to put in an intimidating tackle which is a major part of professional rugby. But as regards my previous comment being 'worth something', I think you missed the point, in my opinion rush had aim the tackle for Laws's chest which is perfectly legal but due to laws slipping/attempted side-step the point of contact change due to no fault of rush who was committed to the tackle at that stage. Yellow at worst.
I totally agree that rush was trying to put in an intimidating tackle which is a major part of professional rugby. But as regards my previous comment being 'worth something', I think you missed the point, in my opinion rush had aim the tackle for Laws's chest which is perfectly legal but due to laws slipping/attempted side-step the point of contact change due to no fault of rush who was committed to the tackle at that stage. Yellow at worst.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:32 pm
Red i thought at the time, but seeing the reply from behind, lawes hasn't helped himself by crouching or whatever he is doing so much.
The ref was full of shockers in this game. Great game, but still.. What a &*$"! ref. Didn't honour the fixture whatsoever.
The ref was full of shockers in this game. Great game, but still.. What a &*$"! ref. Didn't honour the fixture whatsoever.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:32 pm
Tad unlucky for Rush as Lawes did seem to dip/slip at the last moment. But the fact is he did take him high, hard and it was dangerous. I would go with a yellow.....although I cannot really fault the ref for red.
josh f December 20, 2010 2:36 pm
Yellow card, and a good talking to. as a rugby player, when you realise there is a 4 on 1 overlap you have 2 decisions, a crunching tackle or an interception ( tommy bowe style) Rush was going for man and ball, at full tilt and courtney lawes dropped his knee. he did not look to go into contact in a low body position, as his body is still upright! if courtney lawes kept running as he wanted to, there would have been a video clip of xavier rush's crunching tackle on 6ft8" courtney lawes! so never a red!
JPM December 20, 2010 2:40 pm
Remember with neck/head tackles the onus is on the tackler to make sure that he does not make a high tackle....there is no allowance for what the tackled player is doing:
"A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even
if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponents neck or
head is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick
A stiff-arm tackle is dangerous play. A player makes a stiff-arm tackle when using a stiffarm
to strike an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick"
Therefore this is what we call in law a "strict liability" offense. The only question is, did he tackle Lawes above the line of the shoulders. The answer is yes.
Given the violence of the hit it was obvioulsy dangerous.
"A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even
if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponents neck or
head is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick
A stiff-arm tackle is dangerous play. A player makes a stiff-arm tackle when using a stiffarm
to strike an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick"
Therefore this is what we call in law a "strict liability" offense. The only question is, did he tackle Lawes above the line of the shoulders. The answer is yes.
Given the violence of the hit it was obvioulsy dangerous.
Jajaja December 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Definitly not a red card!
Only because he's an Islander. What a shame!
Only because he's an Islander. What a shame!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:46 pm
Lawes saw Rush coming and didnt fancy getting leveled so ducked and unfortunately took one in the face. On reflection yellow not red but can see why it was given at the time. Mind you Rush didnt complain and left the field rather graciously i thought.
Hackney Griffin December 20, 2010 2:47 pm
regardless of wether Lawes slipped/stepped/crouched... Rush as the tackler is responsible for the tackle. He has swung an arm high. And as a result of Lawes body position he's caught the Saints player very high. Had he looked to hit with the shoulder first, rather than the arm, or to hit lower (in a more orthodox fashion) there'd be no issue.
Watch Rush's behaviour immediately after the tackle... he doesn't compete for the ball or play on... he looks to put as much distance between himself and the tackle as possible. For me he knows he's committed an offence and is looking instinctively to get away from the officials gaze.
Oh and Colombes... you're nuts. Lawes two terrific hits in the Challenge Cup are perfect examples of legal and hard hits. Had Rush chosen to line Lawes up in similar fashion again, there'd have been no card.
Watch Rush's behaviour immediately after the tackle... he doesn't compete for the ball or play on... he looks to put as much distance between himself and the tackle as possible. For me he knows he's committed an offence and is looking instinctively to get away from the officials gaze.
Oh and Colombes... you're nuts. Lawes two terrific hits in the Challenge Cup are perfect examples of legal and hard hits. Had Rush chosen to line Lawes up in similar fashion again, there'd have been no card.
Zavala December 20, 2010 2:47 pm
Anyone saying he ducked into it and therefore Rush shouldn't have been sent off needs to reconsider their opinion. Lawes braced himself as he saw the on-rushing player and the crouch came about a tenth of a second before the hit. This obviously had an effect on the point of impact, and Rush wouldn't have had time to adjust his tackle, hence we get such a high shot. It's certainly worthy of a yellow and the red card is not a surprise one bit but I do think that any ban needs to be minimal. It was dangerous but the situation made it so i.e. Rush flying in at full-pelt to be met by a tall player bracing himself for contact.
It has to be remembered that the responsibility lies with the tackler in the engagement and Rush's attempt would have been a monster hit, one of the best of recent memory, if Lawes had taken the tackle stood at his full height and virtually blind-sided after just taking the ball. I don't think it was a malicious hit with intent to take his head off, he merely wished to legally hospitalise him AND stop the try that was most definitely on.
It has to be remembered that the responsibility lies with the tackler in the engagement and Rush's attempt would have been a monster hit, one of the best of recent memory, if Lawes had taken the tackle stood at his full height and virtually blind-sided after just taking the ball. I don't think it was a malicious hit with intent to take his head off, he merely wished to legally hospitalise him AND stop the try that was most definitely on.
Hackney Griffin December 20, 2010 2:50 pm
Really... watch it again... hits with the shoulder, body low, arms wrapped... it's perfect:
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2009/01/courtney-lawes-huge-hit-on-julien-tomas.html
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2009/01/courtney-lawes-huge-hit-on-julien-tomas.html
Anonymous December 20, 2010 2:55 pm
I don't think Rush is a dirty player but that tackle was definitely him trying to get in a "big-hit" and was pretty high for it - if you look at his body position, Rush is relatively upright on impact, so if he was trying to drive forward would have been bent over a bit more. I would say red card was correct.
Stubby December 20, 2010 3:05 pm
Forgot to mention: there should not be any additional sanction. This was an attempt to make a 'big, in your face' tackle that failed due to circumstances and not an attempt injure.
Colombes December 20, 2010 3:32 pm
To hackney Griffin
Ok, i must say, you can't compare xavier rush swingin arm with these 2 tackles. it's a bit harsh from me.
But i'm sorry, on the 1st one against Parra. Lawes was late and wanted to destroy parra's shoulder with his.. shoulder. and he achieved it!
but we are ok that's another story.
Rush will take a ban i think. pity, it's a great player
Ok, i must say, you can't compare xavier rush swingin arm with these 2 tackles. it's a bit harsh from me.
But i'm sorry, on the 1st one against Parra. Lawes was late and wanted to destroy parra's shoulder with his.. shoulder. and he achieved it!
but we are ok that's another story.
Rush will take a ban i think. pity, it's a great player
Tom December 20, 2010 3:33 pm
I don't want to "Rush" to conclusions but in the "Lawes" of the game the ref made the right call...
...sorry, i'll get my coat.
for what it is worth I think a red is the right choice. Rush tried to make a big hit. he got it all wrong and has paid the price. Expect a 3 week ban also.
...sorry, i'll get my coat.
for what it is worth I think a red is the right choice. Rush tried to make a big hit. he got it all wrong and has paid the price. Expect a 3 week ban also.
Lucius December 20, 2010 3:45 pm
Well, it's not a red card, nor a yellow? Maybe an orange one...
ps: very dangerous frontal tackle with open arms
ps: very dangerous frontal tackle with open arms
Juggernauter December 20, 2010 3:57 pm
For everbody saying this isn't a red... What do you have to do on the pitch to get sent out? Shoot the guy with a rocket launcher? That was very, very dangerous. Foul play is foul play. I think there was no intention so should be no ban, but dangerous play nevertheless. This is not the type of stuff you want to see on the turf.
killerk December 20, 2010 4:06 pm
It's really dangerous tackle and i'm not sure that we can juge this action whithout the rest of the game. Perhaps it wasn't the first high tacle. Moreover, the refery manage his game like he wants.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 4:43 pm
give him a gimp suit and stick him in a ring special move flying clothes line
Von December 20, 2010 5:17 pm
Could one of the posters claiming that Lawes's body position mitigates the high tackle please quote the rule that allows for this?
I understand what you're getting at and I think it does make it unfortunate when your opponent's movements exacerbate your bad tackle, but as far as I'm aware the onus is on the tackler to put the hit in accurately.
I understand what you're getting at and I think it does make it unfortunate when your opponent's movements exacerbate your bad tackle, but as far as I'm aware the onus is on the tackler to put the hit in accurately.
Von December 20, 2010 5:23 pm
Oops. I should have read the comments more thorougly before posting. I see JPM and Hackney Griffin have made my point already...
We're right though. Much as though it's unfortunate for Rush that his planned massive hit was transformed into a high-tackle through not much fault of his own, it's incumbent on him to adjust his own body position.
By the way, cracking break by Foden and nice from an England fan's perspective to see Ashton in tune with him and right on his shoulder.
We're right though. Much as though it's unfortunate for Rush that his planned massive hit was transformed into a high-tackle through not much fault of his own, it's incumbent on him to adjust his own body position.
By the way, cracking break by Foden and nice from an England fan's perspective to see Ashton in tune with him and right on his shoulder.
Flipje December 20, 2010 6:05 pm
55 post to discuss whether this is a valid Red?????Seriously?
Ok, some of them are making a constructive effort to explain which in my way cannot be defendable. Rush might not be a dirty player, I might easely conceed that, but on this one, he is all wrong.
On another case, I do not know if RD will show the " nice" kick (on the floor) from Dave Attwood from Gloucester to La Rochelle prop Toderasc (apparently he will not loose his eye...) during this WE Rugby Challenge game.
Not a Red Card, but a citing by ERC commissionar and an apparent apologie from the referee afterwards..... Still I did not see the video yet, so I will be cautious before making any judgement.
Ok, some of them are making a constructive effort to explain which in my way cannot be defendable. Rush might not be a dirty player, I might easely conceed that, but on this one, he is all wrong.
On another case, I do not know if RD will show the " nice" kick (on the floor) from Dave Attwood from Gloucester to La Rochelle prop Toderasc (apparently he will not loose his eye...) during this WE Rugby Challenge game.
Not a Red Card, but a citing by ERC commissionar and an apparent apologie from the referee afterwards..... Still I did not see the video yet, so I will be cautious before making any judgement.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 6:10 pm
Wasnt worthy of a card, same tackle as Umanga used to do in super 14.
Same as Powell on Vermullen on Lions tour.
Look at height of both players during the contact, theyre level, Lowes is about a foot taller than Rush :P
Same as Powell on Vermullen on Lions tour.
Look at height of both players during the contact, theyre level, Lowes is about a foot taller than Rush :P
Anonymous December 20, 2010 6:16 pm
The referees don't have the replay in the field. They judge the action at real speed.
High tackle without hold the player, it's red card
High tackle without hold the player, it's red card
Anonymous December 20, 2010 6:34 pm
In all fairness, by the time Rush actually hit Lawes, Lawes' knee was almost on the ground. He also dropped very quickly, like he was trying to avoid the hit.
And it wasn't a swinging arm. Rush did attempt to wrap, but it's kind of hard when you hit the player in the face.
I'd give it a yellow. Hopefully a ban won't come out of this.
And it wasn't a swinging arm. Rush did attempt to wrap, but it's kind of hard when you hit the player in the face.
I'd give it a yellow. Hopefully a ban won't come out of this.
Alexander December 20, 2010 6:39 pm
lawes certainly dipped, but that was a clothesline, no attempt at wrapping so what did he honestly expect? All players have a responsibility as a player to not commit such acts!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 6:50 pm
It's not just the fact it was high. It's also the fact that he didn't really tackle him, he clotheslined him.
Redron December 20, 2010 7:01 pm
Definite yellow, Lawes was pretty much on one knee when Rush hit him.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 7:18 pm
At least Saints won... Anyway, just think, Lawes or anyone else could easily have suffered a neck/head injury from something like that. It needs to be discouraged. Red!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 7:52 pm
Again -- this gets RED, but Andy Powell got no citing or card agains the ABs. Here's to consistency!
Anonymous December 20, 2010 8:02 pm
chabal did the same to heaslip in the leinster vs racing game and put him back on his ass this would have been a perfect tackle that would of rattled lawes but since he slipped looks a lot worse but in the refs defense on first viewing thought it was a lot more cynical. yellow not red in my opinion
WelshOsprey December 20, 2010 8:10 pm
how can you high tackle a guy whos 6ft 8?
he fell into the tackle, if rush gets banned for that its a fucking joke
he fell into the tackle, if rush gets banned for that its a fucking joke
Martin December 20, 2010 8:22 pm
I should have been a yellow. it wasn't intentional! and theres also Laws fault in that! Yes he should have been cited after a game and maybe skip next 1-2 games bu red card? really?
Jim December 20, 2010 8:29 pm
RD, Please upload Chris Hala'ufia's hit on van niekerk in the Irish vs Toulon match. he gives him a little knock after. awesome to watch though! cheers
Canadian Content December 20, 2010 9:00 pm
Perhaps a bit harsh for Rush, but when it comes to the safety of the players, I like a ref who errs on the side of promoting safety and responsibility for the tackler.
Lawes ducked no lower than anyone else would in that situation. Rush must be more responsible for where he makes contact.
Lawes ducked no lower than anyone else would in that situation. Rush must be more responsible for where he makes contact.
Anon December 20, 2010 10:24 pm
Unfortunately the ref doesn't have the the luxury of watching the tackle in slow motion, so given the circumstances and the fact that it was a very dangerous and high tackle (which could have seriously injured Lawes) i feel the ref made the right call. I do however agree that it wasn't Rush's intention to hurt Lawes, but the ref has to give what he sees and there is no denying it was a vicious hit.
And i'm sorry but all this talk about dipping into the tackle, he was just getting into position to receive contact, i mean who takes the ball into contact standing up straight????
And i'm sorry but all this talk about dipping into the tackle, he was just getting into position to receive contact, i mean who takes the ball into contact standing up straight????
Bowie December 20, 2010 10:36 pm
Damn shame that it wasn't legal as it was an absolutely storming hit on a big guy like Lawes - might hve even changed the game.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 11:17 pm
A very very physical pair of matches. Looked nasty and at full speed and dangerous however I genuinely believe Rush is the kind of player to do his talking through hard running and big defence not dangerous tackles. He was trying to put a big hit in to lift his teammates. Same cannot be said of Hartley as an England fan I was ashamed by him in both matches especially the forearm to Gareth Williams in the game at Franklins Gardens. Finally it was good to see Lawes get up and get on with the game... he looks to have far more qualities as a captain than his teammate Hartley.
Anonymous December 20, 2010 11:25 pm
Isn't Lawes quite within his right to lower his body position? So as to make himself more difficult to tackle? There's no point in a man his size running bolt upright into tackles!
gabriel December 21, 2010 12:25 am
I think it was a little bit over a yellow and a little bit under red card...
tough decision
tough decision
Anonymous December 21, 2010 12:38 am
Rush's body language immediately after the tackle suggests he knows the severity of what he did. He's up within a split second, frantically getting out of the way for what I assume he thinks is going to be an onslaught of punches!
Has to be a red, whether Lawes ducks or not, there's a swinging arm and no need to go that high to take man and ball.
I wonder if all the shouts for a yellow card would be the same if Lawes' skull wasn't thick enough to take a smash and he ended up badly hurt?
Has to be a red, whether Lawes ducks or not, there's a swinging arm and no need to go that high to take man and ball.
I wonder if all the shouts for a yellow card would be the same if Lawes' skull wasn't thick enough to take a smash and he ended up badly hurt?
lenny15 December 21, 2010 1:04 am
who can forget that Odriscoll Tana Umaga incident
Mise December 21, 2010 1:32 am
love the comments to the tune of 'its looked worse in real time'........like there are other times.....especially if you are the tackled player.
Lawes: "its ok, it won't be as decapitating in slo mo"
Lawes: "its ok, it won't be as decapitating in slo mo"
Max December 21, 2010 3:34 am
Red cards are so bullshit. Let's be real, they work for soccer but they fuck up rugby games royally. Must be a better solution floating around somewhere.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 5:01 am
Lawes ducked down - as a few have mentioned - one of his knees was on the ground - if he had stayed uproght - it would have been rib - chest high . . . Lawes didn't deserve to get his head taken off, but it wasn't Rush'd fault Lawes ducked down . . yellow at very worst . . .
Anonymous December 21, 2010 6:01 am
Lawes is shit. He's 6.8 and get smashed by a 8 thats what happens. Man up. His knee is on the ground the fool. Shouldn't even be a yellow. Rush shouldn't get a ban for that.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 6:06 am
if you think that is a red card then you clearly have never played rugby. Should been let off for a warning at the most.
Tom December 21, 2010 7:40 am
yellow at the most, soft red.
Hit him a bit high, completely accidently as Lawes ducks into the tackle.
Bad call, typical of French refs.
Hit him a bit high, completely accidently as Lawes ducks into the tackle.
Bad call, typical of French refs.
Secret Santa December 21, 2010 7:59 am
@ Anon
"if you think that is a red card then you clearly have never played rugby. Should been let off for a warning at the most."
Damn. I play rugby and I think a straight red is ok. What do we do now?
btw, what sort of warning? Seriously? "Xav, me boy, lower next time. Cheers."
@ Tom
"Yellow at the most, soft red." ??
So, IF there's a card it will be a yellow. But you accept the idea of a pinkish red? And what is a solid red?
"Bad call, typical of French refs."
What country allows beheading as a tackle, since apparently it's a matter of culture?
To those not asking for a red, imagine your son playing and being clothes lined this way. How many of you would say "Fair hit! Man up, sonny, you shouldn't ve ducked and YOU know it"?
"if you think that is a red card then you clearly have never played rugby. Should been let off for a warning at the most."
Damn. I play rugby and I think a straight red is ok. What do we do now?
btw, what sort of warning? Seriously? "Xav, me boy, lower next time. Cheers."
@ Tom
"Yellow at the most, soft red." ??
So, IF there's a card it will be a yellow. But you accept the idea of a pinkish red? And what is a solid red?
"Bad call, typical of French refs."
What country allows beheading as a tackle, since apparently it's a matter of culture?
To those not asking for a red, imagine your son playing and being clothes lined this way. How many of you would say "Fair hit! Man up, sonny, you shouldn't ve ducked and YOU know it"?
Hendrick December 21, 2010 8:05 am
Red Red Red card. It is the responsibly of the tackler to tackle safely. Laws didn't duck that much. People that are saying this is a yellow let me run full speed at you, and clothes line you in the neck.
Dub in Oz December 21, 2010 8:09 am
he's off his feet and out of control and strikes lawes in the face with his bicep. how is that not a red card? it's called a clothes line. good reffing.
Secret Santa December 21, 2010 8:16 am
Respect for Lawes who played on after such a hit. How strong his neck must be? MY head would still be rolling.
And I know a lot can be said about my previous comment - please have a go. Anyway I think you got the main idea.
And I know a lot can be said about my previous comment - please have a go. Anyway I think you got the main idea.
pensif December 21, 2010 8:58 am
Almost as bad as Powell's stiff-arm on McCaw. Funny, no card for that at all, not even a penalty! Mmm.
jaw December 21, 2010 10:08 am
I see most of the comments are made by refs and not players. Yellow at most. Xavier was unlucky, Lawes dipped down made it look worse. Red cards are handed out too easy these days. I'm glad it's not this strict at my club or we'd all get sent off.
(u-p)rick December 21, 2010 10:20 am
Guys I was chatting with my dad last night and it sort of came to my mind all this stuff..... We were talking about rugby and American football etc and the size of players. He was saying how American football (call it AF) they have big pads and helmets and I said well I guess they don't have the sort of rules rugby does, I.e you can more or less do anything to tackle someone in AF..... Then it got me thinking, we all talk about 'back in the day that would have been yellow for lawes because he took so long to get up!!! And a pat for rushe' you know that kinda crap then I thought but back in the day players were a lot smaller, you know great tall second rows built as wide as a pencil etc, whereas nowadays all players are gym junkies.....
My point is, in AF I wonder how many serious injuries would occur with no padding.....then relate than to rugby, the guys are getting bigger so they can do more damage so I wonder if refs have been told to be more harsh. In theory you can argue someone is going to get killed/paralysed one day through a dangerous tackle because everyone is so much bigger.........
Anyway that was my thoughts on stuff.......as for this, lawes went low (still tacklers duty of care though) I think it was nasty but I've seen worse get less......using my theory above I can understand the red, but I generally understand most high tackles to be yellow......
My point is, in AF I wonder how many serious injuries would occur with no padding.....then relate than to rugby, the guys are getting bigger so they can do more damage so I wonder if refs have been told to be more harsh. In theory you can argue someone is going to get killed/paralysed one day through a dangerous tackle because everyone is so much bigger.........
Anyway that was my thoughts on stuff.......as for this, lawes went low (still tacklers duty of care though) I think it was nasty but I've seen worse get less......using my theory above I can understand the red, but I generally understand most high tackles to be yellow......
Anonymous December 21, 2010 10:38 am
i have to say there are some absolute unreal and biased comments on here! It is clear lawes ducked into the tackle, Rush did not aim high at all, I agree the swinging arm should be penalised but a straight red for that is crazy! The commentators in this game were terrible as was the ref! ex wales international jonathon davies made his point clear on his twitter after the game by saying something along the lines of "do these sky commentators want to shag courtney lawes or something?"
but as for the tackle yellow should have been given, i accept this was a swinging arm but the way most of you are speaking sounds as if your trying to take all contact out of rugby! go and play football if you feel that way!
but as for the tackle yellow should have been given, i accept this was a swinging arm but the way most of you are speaking sounds as if your trying to take all contact out of rugby! go and play football if you feel that way!
Julien December 21, 2010 10:50 am
obvious red. It is the tackler's job to adapt to the ball carrier's position so that he doesn't commit a foul. If you want to tackle at the shoulders, well if the player ducks and you hit him in the neck, it is your fault.
this was a very dangerous play. With the speed and strength of the players a red is warranted. A yellow is a high tackle without to much speed, where the ball carrier is held to the ground. This is a clothesline. Certainly didn't mean it, but red and suspension warranted. Well done ref.
this was a very dangerous play. With the speed and strength of the players a red is warranted. A yellow is a high tackle without to much speed, where the ball carrier is held to the ground. This is a clothesline. Certainly didn't mean it, but red and suspension warranted. Well done ref.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 10:55 am
julien - without too much speed? so your saying that you have to tackle someone slowly?
Anonymous December 21, 2010 11:06 am
Rush's reaction said it all, not so much as a word of complaint.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 11:15 am
From the look of it Lawes is trying and failing to get round rush, puts in a big step and gets crunched!
But if your of the opinion when being tackled you have to stand tall and not move so you can get smashed, your just retarded! attackers are always trying ot avoid getting hit, so if you put your head down and commit and not work out margins, you deserve what you get. 6.8 ft is about as hard to hit legally as it is for most of you not to think about what your posting
But if your of the opinion when being tackled you have to stand tall and not move so you can get smashed, your just retarded! attackers are always trying ot avoid getting hit, so if you put your head down and commit and not work out margins, you deserve what you get. 6.8 ft is about as hard to hit legally as it is for most of you not to think about what your posting
Julien December 21, 2010 11:20 am
No what I am saying is that if you commit the offense of a high tackle while under control, ie not flying tackle, you bring the player down holding him, it is less grave and therefore warrants only a yellow.
When as in this case the offense is committed in risk aggravating circumstances, ie full speed, little holding of the tackled player, the risk being higher for the player's safety, and this being one of the prime considerations for cards, yellow or red, it warrants an upgrade to red card.
When as in this case the offense is committed in risk aggravating circumstances, ie full speed, little holding of the tackled player, the risk being higher for the player's safety, and this being one of the prime considerations for cards, yellow or red, it warrants an upgrade to red card.
Red December 21, 2010 12:08 pm
Plus I think you'll find most people dip into tackles to get a stronger body position. This is such a blatant red card!!
Secret Santa December 21, 2010 12:32 pm
The more I read the thread, the more I get convinced that a lot are just booing the red card for the fun of it. Watching the hit, your first reaction is to hope Lawes hasn't been seriously injured, which for an inch coulda been the case.
That's why it's red! Rush is a good physical/impact player but this has nothing to do with it. This deserves more than the yellow given to the one repeatedly slowing the ball in a ruck for example.
That's why it's red! Rush is a good physical/impact player but this has nothing to do with it. This deserves more than the yellow given to the one repeatedly slowing the ball in a ruck for example.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 12:33 pm
OK, a good physical tackle hits the player in the chest or ribs.
This tackle almost took Lawes' head off. So we can all agree it was a dreadful tackle. Anything else, such as Lawes sipping, is irrelevant.
Next comes the punishment. To me, a straight red card should be for blatant, malicious foul play. Were it me, therefore, I would have given Rush a yellow for a reckless tackle.
However, getting into that situation, he can't complain about a red, because almost taking someone's head off can be perceived as malicious foul play.
So, red was too harsh for me, but not unexpected - lesson to learn is aim for the ribs and not the chest.
This tackle almost took Lawes' head off. So we can all agree it was a dreadful tackle. Anything else, such as Lawes sipping, is irrelevant.
Next comes the punishment. To me, a straight red card should be for blatant, malicious foul play. Were it me, therefore, I would have given Rush a yellow for a reckless tackle.
However, getting into that situation, he can't complain about a red, because almost taking someone's head off can be perceived as malicious foul play.
So, red was too harsh for me, but not unexpected - lesson to learn is aim for the ribs and not the chest.
Mr Lif December 21, 2010 12:44 pm
Ironic really, over the two games there was a fair bit of intentionally violent play from Northampton (mostly from Hartley) but Rush gets red for a tackle which, however bad, was not a cynical attempt to foul.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 1:06 pm
red card...
offensive fase (probably try) stopped with a to high cheap hit
....
offensive fase (probably try) stopped with a to high cheap hit
....
Anonymous December 21, 2010 1:29 pm
"Your Nan" who called Dylan Hartley a chubby pr1ck
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/8212673/Cardiff-Blues-19-Northampton-23-match-report.html
Enjoy
Anon x
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/8212673/Cardiff-Blues-19-Northampton-23-match-report.html
Enjoy
Anon x
Ed December 21, 2010 2:03 pm
The ref said "dangerous tackle".
A big man totally commits at high speed, then swings his arm across another man's throat?
Yep! The ref was right.
It really doesn't matter about Rush's intention or about the other player changing his body position: it was dangerous. End of.
The ref told Rush to "do one". 100% correct!
A big man totally commits at high speed, then swings his arm across another man's throat?
Yep! The ref was right.
It really doesn't matter about Rush's intention or about the other player changing his body position: it was dangerous. End of.
The ref told Rush to "do one". 100% correct!
Von December 21, 2010 2:16 pm
Anonymous said...
i have to say there are some absolute unreal and biased comments on here!
There are some very silly comments but sadly they all seem to be real!
What do you mean by biased?? You think they're all written by Northampton fans / England fans / Lawes fans / person-being-tackled fans?? Red card fans???
ex wales international jonathon davies made his point clear on his twitter after the game by saying something along the lines of "do these sky commentators want to shag courtney lawes or something?"
That's odd, doesn't sound like the sort of thing he'd say? Oh look, you've completely made it up! Care to explain why?
http://twitter.com/#!/jiff10
i have to say there are some absolute unreal and biased comments on here!
There are some very silly comments but sadly they all seem to be real!
What do you mean by biased?? You think they're all written by Northampton fans / England fans / Lawes fans / person-being-tackled fans?? Red card fans???
ex wales international jonathon davies made his point clear on his twitter after the game by saying something along the lines of "do these sky commentators want to shag courtney lawes or something?"
That's odd, doesn't sound like the sort of thing he'd say? Oh look, you've completely made it up! Care to explain why?
http://twitter.com/#!/jiff10
Anonymous December 21, 2010 3:07 pm
If he dropped 3 foot it would have still been a high tackle, but a red might have been a bit harsh.
Anonymous December 21, 2010 3:38 pm
So if Rush charges in to smash Lawes and Lawes side steps him n Rush smashes him in the head is it a sending off ... yes course it is, so does it make any difference that Lawes slipped no!
Chris December 21, 2010 3:46 pm
obvious red. It is the tackler's job to adapt to the ball carrier's position so that he doesn't commit a foul.
----------
I hate when people say this because it's obvious you have no idea how to tackle.
You cannot put in a hard solid hit unless you commit or are built like Henry Tuilagi.
It's not your job to do anything. If you commit to a tackle and the other player slips onto his knee, that's nobodies fault but his.
There's no common sense in rugby anymore. Everything is so reactionary, something looks bad so it must deserve a red and 12 weeks.
It's not the fault of Rush that Lawes fell into the tackle. In such situations referees should be able to make exceptions and use a bit of fucking logic.
You can't punish a man for something out of his control
----------
I hate when people say this because it's obvious you have no idea how to tackle.
You cannot put in a hard solid hit unless you commit or are built like Henry Tuilagi.
It's not your job to do anything. If you commit to a tackle and the other player slips onto his knee, that's nobodies fault but his.
There's no common sense in rugby anymore. Everything is so reactionary, something looks bad so it must deserve a red and 12 weeks.
It's not the fault of Rush that Lawes fell into the tackle. In such situations referees should be able to make exceptions and use a bit of fucking logic.
You can't punish a man for something out of his control
Chris December 21, 2010 3:48 pm
Plus I think you'll find most people dip into tackles to get a stronger body position. This is such a blatant red card!!
-------
He didn't dip into the tackle. He lost his footing and fell onto one knee.
How biased can you be. Are you telling me he went onto one knee on purpose lol?
-------
He didn't dip into the tackle. He lost his footing and fell onto one knee.
How biased can you be. Are you telling me he went onto one knee on purpose lol?
peaches December 21, 2010 3:50 pm
It's a yellow i'd say - the tackle is dangerous but not cynical or anything like that. Ultimately, Rush is responsible for the point of contact even though Lawes did fall into the tackle. As I see it, it was not a swinging arm that made contact - it was shoulder on face with Rush's arm coming around to complete what would be a legal tackle if it was lower. As such, it's yellow for a dangerous mistake on Rush's part, not red for serious deliberate foul play.
Flipje December 21, 2010 4:05 pm
Talking about a nice RED missed, as mentioned in my first post
Gloucester- La Rochelle from this week end
Nice stamping......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZKDYuJgHaE
View Video
Gloucester- La Rochelle from this week end
Nice stamping......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZKDYuJgHaE
View Video
Anonymous December 21, 2010 5:23 pm
Lawes ducked into that tackle. And rugby is a physical game! Yellow at most. At least Lawes isnt a pussy and got up
Anonymous December 21, 2010 5:37 pm
rush is 6.1 how can you high tackle someone who is 6.8. i play rugby and i dont think its bad at all. seen much worse on the pitch get less. Lawes is a english prick. his knee is on the ground look at it in slow motion. if he didn't drop to his knee he still would of got smashed. Only english people think its bad. he shouldn't even been playing rugby with a name like Courtney. FASSIO!
Anonymous December 21, 2010 9:35 pm
.....yeh course he shouldn't just like we should never have had that great league player who's first name is Stacey (NZ league that is)
Max December 22, 2010 12:36 am
Stacey Jones was a league player? And here was me thinking all this time he was a hobbit...
Anonymous December 22, 2010 12:47 am
rush goes flying in to hit him at chest hight and lawes drops down before the tackle is made causing it to hit around the neck.
Should have been a yellow at most.
Should have been a yellow at most.
The Other Conor December 22, 2010 12:47 am
You guys are watching the same tackle as me right? As in Lawes caught the ball turned and begun to step inside, crouched and caught rush in the process. NEVER a red never never never. Lets cast your minds back to 2009 http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2009/12/three-high-tackles-three-entirely.html
Bowe got closelined JP got nothing, Roberts took Carter to the neck and sholder Carter got a week, And Faafili got a red and got banned. Even tho Carter did SFA JP did exactly what Faafili did and got nothing? Bull-shit
Rush went in for a full on hit Lawes turned and Rush went up and over him, no closeline no swinging arm not worth a red maybe yellow casue it looked so bad, but I really hope he doens't get banned for this!
Also sky sports. Fuck off, we don't want to hear your bias views of crap english rugby...
Bowe got closelined JP got nothing, Roberts took Carter to the neck and sholder Carter got a week, And Faafili got a red and got banned. Even tho Carter did SFA JP did exactly what Faafili did and got nothing? Bull-shit
Rush went in for a full on hit Lawes turned and Rush went up and over him, no closeline no swinging arm not worth a red maybe yellow casue it looked so bad, but I really hope he doens't get banned for this!
Also sky sports. Fuck off, we don't want to hear your bias views of crap english rugby...
JC December 22, 2010 1:37 am
Same old tripe, it doesn't matter what you use to justify your argument, the only guy that will ever cop it in his situation is the tackler.... All you saying well lawes ducked or whatever, well the French winger many years ago dodged vickery and vickery tripped him..... Whatever the reasons the outcome is still a 'high tackle' or in vickery's case a trip..... It might not be rushes fault but freeze the video exactly when lawes gets hit, where is rushes arm? Round lawes head area, now rushe could be a saint and an angel that would never mean any harm but by letter of the law THAT is a high tackle..... As for the red....meh seemed like a harsh card to me, yellow generally but maybe I can see the reds coming in...
Just a Fan December 22, 2010 6:33 am
It is the tackler responsibility to control the tackle...Rush definitely had not intention of doing that. That was a swinging arm...Red is deserved....too many people are trying to play like the Islanders these day...it needs to be stopped.
Just a Player December 22, 2010 8:27 am
It wasn't a swinging arm ffs. Rush had his arm up and make contact with his shoulder and bicep. People seem to forget rugby is a dynamic game. Rush was unlucky, he wanted to put on a good tackle and it came off wrong.
Julien December 22, 2010 10:48 am
It came out wrong which makes the red card warranted... It is the tackler's responsability that it comes out ok.
Anonymous December 22, 2010 11:13 am
Red for sure. Think he knew it as well.
p.s. just once more for the record: Laws: 6ft. 8...
p.s. just once more for the record: Laws: 6ft. 8...
Off December 22, 2010 11:31 am
Rush is a great player and not dirty. But that was a freakin' red card if ever I saw onw. He got it all wrong and he would be the first to admit it i'm sure.
Secret Santa December 22, 2010 11:41 am
Whatever you say. IMPACT on the head, possibly bending the neck backwards. Red justified.
On the whole, I agree with JC too.
On the whole, I agree with JC too.
Ieuan December 22, 2010 1:13 pm
For those people who keep saying that Lawes is 6ft 8 - who cares. Does that mean that the same tackle on a 5ft 4 player would be OK?! High is high regardless of if the guy is a giant or a dwarf. Red would be deserved if every tackle like this was a red, but they are not.
Maybe the IRB should suggest making all tackles below the waist?!
Maybe the IRB should suggest making all tackles below the waist?!
Anonymous December 22, 2010 1:24 pm
Red yes - the two had been at each other before then and the intent was there. The fact that Rush got up and ran away from teh incident shows you that 1) He knew he had done bad and was expecting some 2) As most criminals do he ran away from teh scene.
If Rush did that by accident when he look down and saw Lawes he would have seen if he was okay.
If Rush didn't know he was bad then why the hell does an experienced player like Rush pick up the ball
If Rush did that by accident when he look down and saw Lawes he would have seen if he was okay.
If Rush didn't know he was bad then why the hell does an experienced player like Rush pick up the ball
cory December 22, 2010 5:06 pm
surely because Lawes is 6'8 so even with a slip it should be flipping hard to to put in a high tackle. i say red for the action of the tackle, but no suspension.
Anonymous December 22, 2010 9:35 pm
I think showing some concern for the flattened player holds well in the refs eyes, take rupeni caucau's tackle a few weeks ago he was concerned and knew he did wrong, it was plain as day to see how he didn't mean it....accidental or not rushe should have shown a bit more concern and it may have helped his case...
geordie December 22, 2010 11:24 pm
i think Lawes would have wanted rush to stay on just to get revenge watch out Rush next time your up against Lawes your in big trouble.
Anonymous December 23, 2010 2:32 am
i bet most of the people calling for a red are the same ones that were saying there was nothing wrong with powells hit on mccaw.
Anonymous December 23, 2010 4:30 am
Anytime you cringe at the play when it happens, go with your gut. Red, no doubt. He came way high when he had no need to do so. If he had hit at the waist the whole crowd would have appluaded. Great timing, but incredibly careless...at best, scandalously evil if at all intentional. But no matter how we all feel, it should definately be in the next Try Savers & Rib Breakers!! Ruck on, Rugby Dump!!
Jimbo December 23, 2010 7:57 am
Can those posting that this should be a yellow please find an example of a more dangerous high tackle that deserves a red so we can compare. Anything that could potential break someones neck is worthy of a red! No malice, no further necassary.
Liam Thomas December 23, 2010 10:01 am
I am a fan of Rush but in all honesty a swinging arm tackle like that has no place in todays game, a red card is deserved, im sure many will disagree but that is my opinion.
Martin December 23, 2010 11:27 am
I am a coach and play and you are always coached to tackle at the waist..
For me it deserved a red, it look more like the trademark flying closeline that the undertaker does in wwe....
For me it deserved a red, it look more like the trademark flying closeline that the undertaker does in wwe....
Anonymous December 23, 2010 1:27 pm
never a red card
flew up to make a big hit to stop the attack. plus lawes ducked abit too.
yellow at most
flew up to make a big hit to stop the attack. plus lawes ducked abit too.
yellow at most
Anonymous December 23, 2010 7:23 pm
The tackle was intended to be chest height (perfectly legal), the ball carriers momentum made him lower his body and the tackle arm ended in his face... non intentional...yellow card for failing to pull out of the tackle when ball carrier was dipping down at most...red just shows the refs need to use video technology in this area as well.
Fastmongrel December 23, 2010 8:41 pm
At slo mo it didnt look a red but I think Rushs reaction got him sent off he didnt go for the ball and looked straight at the ref as he stood he knew what was coming and didnt argue.
Poor non tough NH fa December 23, 2010 9:56 pm
Funnily enough to that random trolling anonymous, I don't recall anyone saying powells hit on mccaw (which is a very different incident) was fine or didn't deserve punishment, in fact the number 1 people in line to defend him (welsh fans) all said he was an idiot and deserved punishment, but ofcourse we all know how you SH bunch can cut someones head off, urinate on their corpse, defile their grave and still only get a penalty against you.....you guys don't even have red or yellow cards do you? I mean who needs rules when you are as tough as the SH!!!! hurrayyyy yeah, three cheers!
mat December 23, 2010 10:14 pm
watching the last 10 seconds of the clip Lawes does stoop down as he is lined up looked like he was attempting a sidestep or something, before lawes stepped rush was going to wrap at shoulder/ upper arm.
looked terrible at first thought certain yellow but watching the replay showed there was no intent, not even a card
looked terrible at first thought certain yellow but watching the replay showed there was no intent, not even a card
Anonymous December 24, 2010 1:43 am
Mat once again you prove that there are people that know f'all about the rules....
'no intent therefore not even a card' wtf.... You ever heard of recklessness? Do you even watch the videos on RD.... generally intent has nothing to do with the initial punishment!!! Rush high tackled lawes... End of story, no ifs or buts, arm round neck, high tackle, nasty therefore easily a yellow but to say 'he didn't mean to so he shouldn't get a card is f'in ridiculous'
You prick.....
'no intent therefore not even a card' wtf.... You ever heard of recklessness? Do you even watch the videos on RD.... generally intent has nothing to do with the initial punishment!!! Rush high tackled lawes... End of story, no ifs or buts, arm round neck, high tackle, nasty therefore easily a yellow but to say 'he didn't mean to so he shouldn't get a card is f'in ridiculous'
You prick.....
Anonymous December 24, 2010 4:48 pm
just compare his punishment with that of Paul O'Connell for a visibly lesser offence
m December 24, 2010 11:51 pm
lawes is a tough bloke, fair play. in all fairness, any card here i would have agreed with
Eoghan December 26, 2010 2:05 pm
Tackler commits to a seriously big hit and is reckless as to where and how contact is made.
The contact is clearly very dangerous to the tackled player, and also extremely high, which renders it a foul.
Foul play, which is dangerous to that extent, is a red card.
I don't see any issue on whether the ref was correct or not. Rush has no complaints.
The contact is clearly very dangerous to the tackled player, and also extremely high, which renders it a foul.
Foul play, which is dangerous to that extent, is a red card.
I don't see any issue on whether the ref was correct or not. Rush has no complaints.
Tom December 26, 2010 10:51 pm
Soft.
Never a red. Wuropeans wnat to card everything and it's a joke.
Lawes slipped down, he basically made Rush hit him high by ducking into the tackle.
Rush was just doing his job.
Soft as hell.
Never a red. Wuropeans wnat to card everything and it's a joke.
Lawes slipped down, he basically made Rush hit him high by ducking into the tackle.
Rush was just doing his job.
Soft as hell.
Anonymous December 27, 2010 1:38 am
Rugby's getting soft now. All lawes fault, rush aimed for the chest and only hit him high because lawes dropped his body.
Either refs and the citing comissioners see these things for what they are (nothing more than good tackles becoming accidents) or everyone goes soft and we all go watch those toffs playing football(soccer). This is why im enjoying my league more and more every year.
Either refs and the citing comissioners see these things for what they are (nothing more than good tackles becoming accidents) or everyone goes soft and we all go watch those toffs playing football(soccer). This is why im enjoying my league more and more every year.
Anonymous December 27, 2010 1:45 am
pause it at 2.16, thats just as rush hits him. There you can see just how low lawes is. Rush isnt jumping just hitting straight which would have connected with lawes chest had he not dropped so much.
Anonymous December 27, 2010 4:37 pm
Yeh except the above 3 comments are irrelevant as they are made by morons with no eye for the game or for the rules..... Yes we as a community all ruled out rush may have not intended the hit to be high so you guys can all go give him a 'well you didn't mean it' blowjob if you want, whilst the rest of us who perhaps have a slight understanding of the rules say well he didn't mean it but fact is he caught him high!!!!
Anonymous December 27, 2010 9:47 pm
^^ so in your opinion if the ball runner slips and lands on the defenders knee its the defenders fault? In your reasoning the defender would likely get banned for striking with the knee and a high tackle.
Jono December 28, 2010 3:49 am
The rules don't explicitly state when a red card is required.
Ask ten refs whther this deserved a red and you would get alot of different answers.
Alot of refs definatly wouldn't give red for this, alot would. Many would give yellow, some might not give a card at all.
Personally I disagree completely that it's a clear red.
Fact is it was a textbook hit, but Lawes slipped or tried to duck under it and basically put his head in the way of Rush's shoulder.
Penalise the tackler sure, but realise that he was just doing a tackle, a good one too.
It's not soccer, we don't have to freak out every time someone gets hurt or there's an illegal tackle.
This was completely accidental, not malicious, not even really reckless, since it wasn't really Rush's fault at all.
A penalty would be fine, maybe a yellow if the ref is feeling harsh.
But a straight red for a completely accidnetal high tackle is massive overkill.
Ask ten refs whther this deserved a red and you would get alot of different answers.
Alot of refs definatly wouldn't give red for this, alot would. Many would give yellow, some might not give a card at all.
Personally I disagree completely that it's a clear red.
Fact is it was a textbook hit, but Lawes slipped or tried to duck under it and basically put his head in the way of Rush's shoulder.
Penalise the tackler sure, but realise that he was just doing a tackle, a good one too.
It's not soccer, we don't have to freak out every time someone gets hurt or there's an illegal tackle.
This was completely accidental, not malicious, not even really reckless, since it wasn't really Rush's fault at all.
A penalty would be fine, maybe a yellow if the ref is feeling harsh.
But a straight red for a completely accidnetal high tackle is massive overkill.
Anonymous December 28, 2010 6:08 pm
Don't be ridiculous if a player slips onto anothers knee no one would expect a penalty but if player gets lifted up and another player tips him it is the tacklers fault..... It's simple you fucking clown open your eyes. I have no love for lawes nor English rugby so this is nothing personal other than the fact you half wits won't open your eyes. Look at 90% of high tackles and you'll see they are generally don't to players ducking, I never said it was a red card I just said it is ALWAYS the tacklers responsibility!!!! Why do you think a recommended tackle area is as the player is side on your head is by his arse you use your shoulder on his hips and you grab his legs (the first tackle generally taught). If you tackle that low and the player slips you still get him low... So if you want to try it that way then rush shouldn't have aimed for the chest!!!!
Anonymous December 28, 2010 7:39 pm
^^ and you constantly go lowe guys the sive of lawes will just stand there and offload the ball. its common place to hit around the chest so that you can wrap the ball at the same time. Thats the difference between league refs and rugby refs. League refs will in most cases give the tackler some benefit of the doubt whilst rugby ones nowadays go straight for the card.
And about the knee point. You derided it straight away then went back on what you said by saying its ALWAYS the tacklers responsiblity. Accidents happen. This was a committed tackler hitting a person who slipped.
And about the knee point. You derided it straight away then went back on what you said by saying its ALWAYS the tacklers responsiblity. Accidents happen. This was a committed tackler hitting a person who slipped.
Jono December 28, 2010 10:54 pm
Wow, anon, it would help your argument if you weren't basically just ranting.
Rush committed a penalty, but it wasn't a particularly bad one. He went in for a textbook tackle (and just so you know it's not the 1980s, players tackle around the chest now, there are many reasons I don't feel like explaining to you)
A straight red for something that was completely accidental and basically the fault of Lawes for dropping down into the hit is massive overkill.
European refs are nuts for cards, they jsut pull them out arbitraily. It's the inlfuence of all the soccer in Europe and that game's obsession with cards.
Rush committed a penalty, but it wasn't a particularly bad one. He went in for a textbook tackle (and just so you know it's not the 1980s, players tackle around the chest now, there are many reasons I don't feel like explaining to you)
A straight red for something that was completely accidental and basically the fault of Lawes for dropping down into the hit is massive overkill.
European refs are nuts for cards, they jsut pull them out arbitraily. It's the inlfuence of all the soccer in Europe and that game's obsession with cards.
Anonymous December 28, 2010 11:14 pm
Well Jono I wouldn't need to rant if you could read what I said or at least would take the time to read.... I'm well aware it's not the 1980's and if you take the time to read what I said I stated that is the initial technique of learning to tackle. I'm also afraid you're wrong again, have you never hit someone full on and sat them on their ass? Because I know I have and I didn't have to hitthem higher up, I've also hit them higher and yes I'm aware it works very effectively but the tackler takes full responsibility and I'm also wondering where you read that I said it was bad? For someone who is so quick to label me as ranting I suggest you take some time and slow down to read before you comment.
Oh and btw referees are told how to warrant cards, if they are heavy handed and unfair or unjust then they get 'investigated' so until this guy gets had up for this red I suggest you keep football as far away from rugby as you can, (like the rest of us do!!)
Oh and btw referees are told how to warrant cards, if they are heavy handed and unfair or unjust then they get 'investigated' so until this guy gets had up for this red I suggest you keep football as far away from rugby as you can, (like the rest of us do!!)
jono December 29, 2010 4:51 am
Maybe it was when you called me a fucking clown, it makes it hard to have a rational discussion when someone says that.
Yeah I have put on hits that sat people on their arses. I almost always go for round the chest cuz that's what I was taught to do, but I'm a front rower, so grassing guys with leg tackles is not my job, I'm told to go in and smash blokes back, chest to chest.
But honestly I'm an ametuer, I'm damn near certain you are too, and I don't think what we do in a game is really the same as what goes on at pro level.
I'm assuming you know most tackles are chest to chest, so lets not worry about it.
In regards to the hit and the red card, if you look closely you'll see that a) I wasn't at any point talking to you until you called me a clown b) You basically agreed with everything I said, while abusing me for disagreeing with you - ie it's definatly a penalty, mayeb even a yellow. I simply went on to say I thought red for what ammounts to a mistake caused more by Lawes than Rush is a massive overkill.
In regards to the ref, it's completely subjective what is and isn't regarded as a card, and the guys who asses whther the correct desicion was amde also do so subjectivley. In other words, I don't accept that the ref was right until some offical tells me otherwise.
So anyway, merry christmas mate, relax.
Yeah I have put on hits that sat people on their arses. I almost always go for round the chest cuz that's what I was taught to do, but I'm a front rower, so grassing guys with leg tackles is not my job, I'm told to go in and smash blokes back, chest to chest.
But honestly I'm an ametuer, I'm damn near certain you are too, and I don't think what we do in a game is really the same as what goes on at pro level.
I'm assuming you know most tackles are chest to chest, so lets not worry about it.
In regards to the hit and the red card, if you look closely you'll see that a) I wasn't at any point talking to you until you called me a clown b) You basically agreed with everything I said, while abusing me for disagreeing with you - ie it's definatly a penalty, mayeb even a yellow. I simply went on to say I thought red for what ammounts to a mistake caused more by Lawes than Rush is a massive overkill.
In regards to the ref, it's completely subjective what is and isn't regarded as a card, and the guys who asses whther the correct desicion was amde also do so subjectivley. In other words, I don't accept that the ref was right until some offical tells me otherwise.
So anyway, merry christmas mate, relax.
Anonymous December 29, 2010 11:14 pm
Tbh Jono if you read above there is someone talking about a player slipping and hitting an opposed knee, then there is your comment then there is my comment with the clown section.....if you refer to it, unless you were the anonymous above you, the clown comment was not directed at you.....
Anonymous December 30, 2010 2:22 am
the knee comment is made in direct reference to the "Rush high tackled lawes... End of story, no ifs or buts" comment. players cant be held accountable for accidents unless its there negligance which caused it i.e lifting a player up and turning him over. Rush aimed straight for the chest and only missed that spot due to lawe slipping.
Anonymous December 30, 2010 11:09 am
Players duck and dodge all the time only to be high tackled. Effectively that is what happened here, rush high tackled lawes and unless the referee has some sort of investigation into it then none of you have any leg to stand on regarding your issues.
I say that because the referee always gets the final word, you want to argue that the red card is a football influence, I argue that you are influenced by football into arguing with the referee.
I say that because the referee always gets the final word, you want to argue that the red card is a football influence, I argue that you are influenced by football into arguing with the referee.
Anonymous December 30, 2010 4:09 pm
its red. no seriously it is ... if you look real close, the ref pulls out a red coloured card.
he ref'd what was in front of him and consulted with the TJ. it's not about the outcome (thankfully lawes ok) but a response to a horribly high tackle.
the appeal gave a one-week ban stating there was no ill intent and that lawes (6 ft 8 in) had dropped to a knee on collision (you might do the same if running towards Rush's straight arm).
rush is not a dirty player, so the system worked. I can see Cardiff fans being agrieved at the sending off, but ... ref refs what's in front of him.
he ref'd what was in front of him and consulted with the TJ. it's not about the outcome (thankfully lawes ok) but a response to a horribly high tackle.
the appeal gave a one-week ban stating there was no ill intent and that lawes (6 ft 8 in) had dropped to a knee on collision (you might do the same if running towards Rush's straight arm).
rush is not a dirty player, so the system worked. I can see Cardiff fans being agrieved at the sending off, but ... ref refs what's in front of him.
Jono December 30, 2010 10:23 pm
You guys serious?
How am I arguing with the ref, I wasn't on the field?
And you just accept every descision a ref makes, regardless? That's just dumb. Refs screw up all the time, it's important they don't keep making the same mistakes.
And there are trends in the game.
For example, currently European refs in particular are pulling out more and more cards for offences that in the past would have warranted only a penalty.
I personally think it's bullshit and a shame. Less cards the better. Disagree with me sure, but have a reason, not just, "what the ref says goes."
How am I arguing with the ref, I wasn't on the field?
And you just accept every descision a ref makes, regardless? That's just dumb. Refs screw up all the time, it's important they don't keep making the same mistakes.
And there are trends in the game.
For example, currently European refs in particular are pulling out more and more cards for offences that in the past would have warranted only a penalty.
I personally think it's bullshit and a shame. Less cards the better. Disagree with me sure, but have a reason, not just, "what the ref says goes."
Anonymous January 01, 2011 7:45 pm
Oh really Jono. I didn't say refs are always right, but what the ref says does go.....I've yet to point out a referees decision is a little iffy and have him congratulate me and change it..... However as this 'European football community' slagging thing is going on, how many football refs get argued with?!!?
The fact is the game is changing, hits like this are caught more often and players are becoming bigger and stronger and faster so I strongly believe the irb are telling refs to be strict on this stuff to avoid serious injuries!!!
Like I said before it matters not what we all argue, because 'the refs decision is final'
So stop being a whiny little soccer player jono
The fact is the game is changing, hits like this are caught more often and players are becoming bigger and stronger and faster so I strongly believe the irb are telling refs to be strict on this stuff to avoid serious injuries!!!
Like I said before it matters not what we all argue, because 'the refs decision is final'
So stop being a whiny little soccer player jono
Anonymous January 03, 2011 4:45 pm
The red card is just, because this high tackle is completly deliberate.
Centre November 10, 2011 12:17 pm
Bradshaw's "Clothesline From Hell". Red card.
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