Friday, December 24, 2010
Clinical Leinster turn on the heat against Clermont
It was a bitterly cold night in Dublin as a record crowd turned out to soak up the festive atmosphere and watch their side produce a superb performance to knock over Clermont with a 24-8 victory, laying down a serious marker for the rest of the Heineken Cup.
Two tries by Cian Healey and one by Sean OBrien meant that Leinster took a grip on pool two and contributed towards ruining Clermonts chances of an easy route to the next round. They missed out a bonus point, but importantly denied the visitors of one too.
"The win is particularly satisfying because we stopped them getting a bonus point, so in the head to head we are 5-4 in front," said coach Joe Schmidt.
"This week we were up for it more. We really had the bit between our teeth and were charging at them. It was a bit of trench warfare and great footy from both sides. We did go a little flat in the last 20 minutes but I think the intensity we brought, particularly in the first 20 minutes of the first and second halves, might have drained us a little and we just lost our shape."
Devon Toner was impressive on the night, which bodes well for his World Cup chances with Ireland for 2011. "Im just trying to do what I can for Leinster, Im not looking any further," he said.
Leinster play Ulster in the Magners League on the 27th of this month, shortly after the festive celebrations take place over the next few days.
"Weve got Christmas Day off, but weve got a match on 27th December against Ulster, we have to prepare for that so we wont be eating too much," Toner added.
As mentioned earlier, RD will be back in full swing shortly after New Years as once a year, things slow down a little around this time. All the best for the holiday season and if youre celebrating, we'd like to wish you a very merry Christmas.
Time: 04:51
Posted at 11:06 am | 60 comments
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Viewing 60 comments
Anonymous December 24, 2010 11:07 am
I'm not a big fan of taking the tap from the exact mark, but that seems to be the law these days and Owens let Parra take a tap about two metres in front of Owens, while Owens was looking straight at him. It wasn't a case of missing it, he simply didn't call it, despite seeing it.
Also, a touch ref brought to Owens' attention that Ledesma punched a Leinster player in the face. Owens just gave him a warning, despite the touch judge saying exactly what had just happened. I find it strange how O' Connell can hit someone with his back turned and get a red and 4 weeks, while a Ledesma can punch a player in the face while looking at him, and not even get a penalty, even though he was seen doing it by an official.
Not to mention the fact that he didn't go to the TMO for Hines' try (despite it being an obvious try) and he did go to the TMO when the exact same situation occurred a minute or two later. Luckily Leinster scored for a second time during that period to even fix Owens' mistake.
Owens is a terrible referee and the inconsistency in all areas of rugby is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Also, a touch ref brought to Owens' attention that Ledesma punched a Leinster player in the face. Owens just gave him a warning, despite the touch judge saying exactly what had just happened. I find it strange how O' Connell can hit someone with his back turned and get a red and 4 weeks, while a Ledesma can punch a player in the face while looking at him, and not even get a penalty, even though he was seen doing it by an official.
Not to mention the fact that he didn't go to the TMO for Hines' try (despite it being an obvious try) and he did go to the TMO when the exact same situation occurred a minute or two later. Luckily Leinster scored for a second time during that period to even fix Owens' mistake.
Owens is a terrible referee and the inconsistency in all areas of rugby is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Leeners93 December 24, 2010 11:08 am
leinster really are an unbelievable team when they play to their full potential
Leeners93 December 24, 2010 11:18 am
you can see that healy has lost a few kilos since EOYT,and look at the difference it has made.he is now a lot more dynamic,goes to show that size isn't everything in the front row.
mike ross also had a rock solid game,he has to be given a go in the 6 nations.imo he is a much better option for tight head than buckley.
mike ross also had a rock solid game,he has to be given a go in the 6 nations.imo he is a much better option for tight head than buckley.
Leeners93 December 24, 2010 11:18 am
you can see that healy has lost a few kilos since EOYT,and look at the difference it has made.he is now a lot more dynamic,goes to show that size isn't everything in the front row.
mike ross also had a rock solid game,he has to be given a go in the 6 nations.imo he is a much better option for tight head than buckley.
mike ross also had a rock solid game,he has to be given a go in the 6 nations.imo he is a much better option for tight head than buckley.
Anonymous December 24, 2010 11:19 am
How was Hine's try not given? Why would the ref not go to the TMO? That's the whole point of having a TMO. If you can't see what happened, you go to the TMO, you don't make an incorrect decision as Owens did.
Anonymous December 24, 2010 11:20 am
gives me warm feelings in my giblets watching that
Jack78 December 24, 2010 11:24 am
What was the scuffle at the end about? Didn't see that.
Completely agree with anon, higgelty piggelty decisions all over rugby this year. A bit of consistancy would be nice
Completely agree with anon, higgelty piggelty decisions all over rugby this year. A bit of consistancy would be nice
KG December 24, 2010 12:19 pm
Leinster look to be developing a bit of an offload game. That would make them very difficult to stop.
O' Brien and Healy got lots of praise, but I was pretty impressed with Heaslip. Solid tackling the whole game, put is some big hits, lasted 80 when he wasn't even sure if he could play. Very reliable. I don't even like Heaslip.
O' Brien and Healy got lots of praise, but I was pretty impressed with Heaslip. Solid tackling the whole game, put is some big hits, lasted 80 when he wasn't even sure if he could play. Very reliable. I don't even like Heaslip.
themull December 24, 2010 12:42 pm
most annoying commentator I've ever heard....
John F December 24, 2010 12:58 pm
The difference in skill level was all too clear here. Maybe not the most beautiful tries but Leinster were much too good here, probably the best side in the competition at the moment from the matches I've seen so far.
Clermont really are the Chump XV but that probably won't be good enough to win the cup, even with all the they can throw at getting a 30 man squad of internationals.
Clermont really are the Chump XV but that probably won't be good enough to win the cup, even with all the they can throw at getting a 30 man squad of internationals.
BigBucks December 24, 2010 1:36 pm
They werent ugly tries at all - Its just that the editing has to be tight to compact it into a video clip for the website. The build up play in all of leinsters try's ( including Hines, and baring the last one which was a Clermont mistake ) They had excellent build up.
Leinster looking good - Dare i say its a two horse race between them and toulouse?
Leinster looking good - Dare i say its a two horse race between them and toulouse?
dutchrugbyplayer December 24, 2010 2:18 pm
nice clip!
just wondering how the hell that last pass was forward. Not that it really matters in the result though.
just wondering how the hell that last pass was forward. Not that it really matters in the result though.
Box December 24, 2010 3:05 pm
It wasn't forward and Nigel Owens wasn't perfectly placed like the commentator said. He just got the call wrong.
BigBucks December 24, 2010 3:10 pm
That pass was forward - i should know given the language that came out of my mouth the first time i seen the call.
Look at the markings on the pitch from where the pass starts and where it ends.
It looks way back due to the speed their all running at - sort of illusion.
Look at the markings on the pitch from where the pass starts and where it ends.
It looks way back due to the speed their all running at - sort of illusion.
dutchrugbyplayer December 24, 2010 3:41 pm
@bigbucks
Mathematically you are right. Nevertheless, if you measure every pass that way, at least half of the passes should be judged forward. Those passes are normally just judged forward in case the player that throws the pass is suddenly stopped by a hard tackle. Normally play goes on when the pass looks to have gone backwark compared to the speed of the player throwing the pass (sorry, I find it hard to explain in English)
Mathematically you are right. Nevertheless, if you measure every pass that way, at least half of the passes should be judged forward. Those passes are normally just judged forward in case the player that throws the pass is suddenly stopped by a hard tackle. Normally play goes on when the pass looks to have gone backwark compared to the speed of the player throwing the pass (sorry, I find it hard to explain in English)
Colombes December 24, 2010 3:47 pm
Leinster are one of the srtongest side of europe.
Clermont haven't lose their qualification. Win in Ireland is always tough. they won't qialify because of their match against racing where they put a team-B.
Toulouse, Leinster and Wasps seem to be superiors.
Nigel Owens is a cyclotimic ref. sometimes very severe and sometimes very laxist. It must be hard to interpretate his decisions
Clermont haven't lose their qualification. Win in Ireland is always tough. they won't qialify because of their match against racing where they put a team-B.
Toulouse, Leinster and Wasps seem to be superiors.
Nigel Owens is a cyclotimic ref. sometimes very severe and sometimes very laxist. It must be hard to interpretate his decisions
jay December 24, 2010 4:00 pm
Bod playing the ball on the ground after a 30 sec ruck ....gotta love it ^^ Even MJ w/ the bulls didn't get that much advantage
Nevertheless good game from Leinster... nothing to say about their victory
Nevertheless good game from Leinster... nothing to say about their victory
Anonymous December 24, 2010 4:09 pm
I was at the game and, whilst pleased with the performance and result, thought the plaudits given to Leinster were just a bit over the top. Leinster played well but should really have put the points up in the last 20 mins (as the ABs would have done). They let the foot off the gas and let Clermont in for a try. Up to that point, Clermont had essentially given up.
Having said that, Ross holding the scrum, Healy, O'Brien and Heaslip carrying at pace, D'Arcy having his best season for a few years, Nacewa exuding confidence at the back and Fitzgerald still to come back, the outlook is good. If Kearney is learning how to pass out of the tackle, I'll be happy to see him back as well.
Having said that, Ross holding the scrum, Healy, O'Brien and Heaslip carrying at pace, D'Arcy having his best season for a few years, Nacewa exuding confidence at the back and Fitzgerald still to come back, the outlook is good. If Kearney is learning how to pass out of the tackle, I'll be happy to see him back as well.
Anonymous December 24, 2010 4:23 pm
"Bod playing the ball on the ground after a 30 sec ruck ....gotta love it ^^ Even MJ w/ the bulls didn't get that much advantage"
That happens in almost every ruck... BOD haters... gotta love 'em.
More like 4 seconds by the way.
That happens in almost every ruck... BOD haters... gotta love 'em.
More like 4 seconds by the way.
Anonymous December 24, 2010 5:19 pm
Re the shane horgan pass:
if a player is running at, say 15 km/h with ball in hand, then the ball is also travelling forward at 15 km/h. If the player passes the ball backwards, the ball is still travelling forward at 15 km/h at the moment at which the pass is made even though the ball is passed 'backwards'. So looking at the ground markings tells you nothing about the legitiimacy of the pass because the ball travels forward through the air for all passes made by a player who is himself moving forward. This is particularly evident from Horgan's pass because of the speed at which he was moving and the length of the pass.
if a player is running at, say 15 km/h with ball in hand, then the ball is also travelling forward at 15 km/h. If the player passes the ball backwards, the ball is still travelling forward at 15 km/h at the moment at which the pass is made even though the ball is passed 'backwards'. So looking at the ground markings tells you nothing about the legitiimacy of the pass because the ball travels forward through the air for all passes made by a player who is himself moving forward. This is particularly evident from Horgan's pass because of the speed at which he was moving and the length of the pass.
BigBucks December 24, 2010 6:13 pm
^above - Yep, fair point made there, its extremely difficult given the shared momentum between the player and ball - Perhaps the ref should be lenient and relax the laws here, but its ultimately down to the player to use his professional skill set to aim the ball and take into account his speed to get the ball backwards.
The ref can only play what he see's, and he saw it go back.
The ref can only play what he see's, and he saw it go back.
Happyskaman December 24, 2010 8:47 pm
Is it just me or has the visual quality of the most recent videos on rugbydump is really bad? I'm not whinning since it's the only way for me in Canada do watch int'l rugby without paying big bucks. Still i find that in the last month or so we haven't seen a video of good quality. I'm not asking for HD but it would be nice to have a better look at the game.
Anonymous December 25, 2010 12:09 am
THE FIRST TRY IS A SCANDAL AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AWARDED. The Clermont player on the right side of the ruck (from clermonts point of view) is at the last second grabbed and taken to the ground by a leinster player in the ruck while the leinster forward picks... UNFAIR leinster will get fu*** by antoher french team anyway
Anonymous December 25, 2010 12:35 am
Lol he was knocked over by his own player... not that it matters, he was knocked over as Healy was crossing the line and he was also a meter to the side of where Healy was scoring. He didn't have a chance of stopping him.
Also, Leinster had that retard Owens making wrong or stupid calls against them throughout the match (as he has been doing since 2008 against Leinster).
Also, Leinster had that retard Owens making wrong or stupid calls against them throughout the match (as he has been doing since 2008 against Leinster).
fry December 25, 2010 6:02 am
Nacewa's take was something like a great pick off by a free safety in the NFL. Great stuff.
secondfive December 25, 2010 9:36 am
The final pass was thrown backwards from the player's hands and that is more or less the definition of a legal pass. If that's forward then half the passes in any game of rugby are forward. The pass at 3:10 looked more dodgy to me but I wouldn't call that back either.
Anonymous December 25, 2010 4:08 pm
The IRB law book says that if the ball is moving towards the opposing try line, then it is a forward pass. Technically, that makes tons of passes forward but the refs don't seem to abide exactly by that silly law... apart from Owens apparently.
Anonymous December 25, 2010 6:05 pm
as i have seen the last and stupid comments of Flooz
i think someone is using his nickname to say bullshits
sad to see some "youtube" trolls on RD
i think someone is using his nickname to say bullshits
sad to see some "youtube" trolls on RD
Anonymous December 25, 2010 6:16 pm
Terrible game for Owens. He didn't go to the TMO for Hines' try (as said before) but also for Lauaki possible try early in the match.
Moreover, what's the point of shouting "Tackler, release... Release... Release!" I mean, this rule was made to quicken the game but if you have time to yell that, the ball has already been slowed down. A penalty should be given way before the 3rd "Release"!
Moreover, what's the point of shouting "Tackler, release... Release... Release!" I mean, this rule was made to quicken the game but if you have time to yell that, the ball has already been slowed down. A penalty should be given way before the 3rd "Release"!
el December 25, 2010 6:18 pm
I just can't figure out how someone can be so lonely and without anything in their life that their fun is derived from getting on a rugby website and impersonating someone who they don't even know.
Weird and sad.
Weird and sad.
Jimbo December 25, 2010 9:30 pm
A forward pass is simple. It can not travel forward from the point at which it starts. If you are running with the ball at 15mph and pass the ball whilst stood on the 22 the ball must either travel along the 22 (flat) or be recieved behind it. If the ball travels over the 22 then it is a forward pass! Fairly simple really :)
fry December 26, 2010 3:23 am
All the actual lawbook has to say is
"A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. 'Forward' means towards the opposing team's dead ball line."
The first part ("...throws...the ball forward") would imply the more accepted idea that even if the ball travels forward of where it was thrown (due to the forward motion of the passer), as long as the pass was directed towards the attacking team's dead ball line (re: 'backward'), then it's okay.
The second part ("...passes the ball forward") could be more open towards the idea of having to judge where the ball was passed from and then where it ended up.
The first one seems easier to referee (ie - "Did the player attempt to pass backward?" If so, it's fine, regardless of where momentum carries it). The second way of looking at it also means that a player running forward will always have to throw a ball backwards "harder" than he would have to if using the first way of looking at it (to counter-act the motion of the player that tends to carry the ball forward).
But I think at the end of the day, the IRB hasn't put the matter to bed and it's at the discretion of the referee to decide on what is a "forward pass".
"A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward. 'Forward' means towards the opposing team's dead ball line."
The first part ("...throws...the ball forward") would imply the more accepted idea that even if the ball travels forward of where it was thrown (due to the forward motion of the passer), as long as the pass was directed towards the attacking team's dead ball line (re: 'backward'), then it's okay.
The second part ("...passes the ball forward") could be more open towards the idea of having to judge where the ball was passed from and then where it ended up.
The first one seems easier to referee (ie - "Did the player attempt to pass backward?" If so, it's fine, regardless of where momentum carries it). The second way of looking at it also means that a player running forward will always have to throw a ball backwards "harder" than he would have to if using the first way of looking at it (to counter-act the motion of the player that tends to carry the ball forward).
But I think at the end of the day, the IRB hasn't put the matter to bed and it's at the discretion of the referee to decide on what is a "forward pass".
D0m3 December 26, 2010 12:25 pm
I remember a discussion about the Australia win over AB, and I was being told that motion was to be considered, hence the ball can actually go forward if the player threw it backward.
So the pass in the highlight is clearly not forward.
IMO it is incredible that, at this level, there isn't a clear rule about forward pass.
So the pass in the highlight is clearly not forward.
IMO it is incredible that, at this level, there isn't a clear rule about forward pass.
Anonymous December 26, 2010 3:23 pm
Any chance of a clip of the 30man brawl in Glasgow vs Toulouse that got Richie Gray sent off?
Anonymous December 26, 2010 4:08 pm
happyskaman p2p has most of the games on it to watch live for free!!!!!!
Box December 26, 2010 5:20 pm
To Jimbo and everyone else saying a pass is forward unless it goes backwards in relation to a fixed point, you're all wrong. Watch this video from the Australian Referees Association that explains it way better than I could. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s
View Video
View Video
Flooz December 26, 2010 7:35 pm
I like a good scrummage with the guys if you know what i mean ;)
secondfive December 27, 2010 1:09 am
@D0m3.. I agree that the laws on the forward pass are much too vague and don't take into account what actually happens in reality. The IRB needs to improve the wording.
@Jimbo... I understand what you're saying but if the law was always refereed as you suggest then no flat or slightly backwards pass between players running in parallel would ever be allowed because common sense tells us that the ball must also move in the direction the players are running. So the game as we know it would be impossible and the number of stoppages would escalate.
@Box.. I know some people don't agree with the referees' video that you've linked here but it does two things the IRB laws don't do.
(a) it takes into account what actually happens to a ball thrown flat or even slightly backward between players running at speed.
(b) it presents a way of dealing with it that makes sense and works for the game.
And I believe most international referees judge "forward" passes in the way this video suggests which is why Owens' decision looks, let's say, unusual.
@Jimbo... I understand what you're saying but if the law was always refereed as you suggest then no flat or slightly backwards pass between players running in parallel would ever be allowed because common sense tells us that the ball must also move in the direction the players are running. So the game as we know it would be impossible and the number of stoppages would escalate.
@Box.. I know some people don't agree with the referees' video that you've linked here but it does two things the IRB laws don't do.
(a) it takes into account what actually happens to a ball thrown flat or even slightly backward between players running at speed.
(b) it presents a way of dealing with it that makes sense and works for the game.
And I believe most international referees judge "forward" passes in the way this video suggests which is why Owens' decision looks, let's say, unusual.
Anonymous December 27, 2010 1:29 am
Re the forwardness of passes, the assessment needs to be made at the moment at which the pass is made, not where the ball ends up. this is the ony way to consistently judge whether the ball is passed backwards or forwarss. This business of assessing whether the ball is closer to the opponents endline is pants - if the player is moving forwards when the ball is passed, the the ball will ALWAYS end up closer to the opponents endline. Simple laws of physice really Jimbo.
Jeff December 27, 2010 7:46 am
You know, refereeing must have been worse in the past, what with the lack of professionalism but now that we've got TV cameras (zoom, replay, slow-motion) showing us every minutae, we're just making ourselves miserable. Kind of like being happily married to a hot wife for years, then getting glasses and being wound up over a few wrinkles.
Anonymous December 27, 2010 10:03 am
whos the blue no. 13? Looks like a yappie little bitch.
Blue 15 looks like a good player.
Thanks
Blue 15 looks like a good player.
Thanks
Anonymous December 27, 2010 1:01 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^
you know exactly who he is.stop trying to stir up an argument
you know exactly who he is.stop trying to stir up an argument
Jimbo December 27, 2010 8:30 pm
@ Box, well found that video look ancient :) Does raise some interesting points but watch the video again and watch where the players hands finish after the pass. Good coaching states that your hands point to where you are passing after the ball is released. Watch his hands after he's passed. He doesn't even attempt to throw it backwards.
Played a game on boxing day (invited as first teamers didn't want to injure themselves :) and had a go during the warm up. Provided and interesting insight...go and try it :)
Played a game on boxing day (invited as first teamers didn't want to injure themselves :) and had a go during the warm up. Provided and interesting insight...go and try it :)
buck December 28, 2010 12:49 am
Something interesting I've seen is that there's a perception that SH referees tend to referee the "attempt" of the pass (as long as it's passed backwards, it doesn't matter where it ends up due to momentum); whereas NH referees may be more inclined to referee where the ball ends up (if it moves forward due to momentum, then it's a "forward pass").
It's certainly not that black and white, but I do think it has something to do with the rugby culture of one place vs. another (since the IRB law isn't specific enough in this instance).
It's certainly not that black and white, but I do think it has something to do with the rugby culture of one place vs. another (since the IRB law isn't specific enough in this instance).
Box December 28, 2010 5:34 am
@Jimbo, You could probably put that down to the player being crap and not the pass.I mean, the back over the head still goes forward!
Mike December 28, 2010 1:00 pm
It's funny how certain great players like Richie McCaw and O'Driscoll attract the ire of idiots. Once you join this group, you know you are an all-time great.
JAY December 28, 2010 2:13 pm
@ Buck
Can't say I've noticed much difference between the NH and SH refs when it comes to forward passes. I watch a bit of Magners League and have followed the Heineken Cup for quite a while and I watch the November Internationals.
(New Zealander here by the way)
Can't say I've noticed much difference between the NH and SH refs when it comes to forward passes. I watch a bit of Magners League and have followed the Heineken Cup for quite a while and I watch the November Internationals.
(New Zealander here by the way)
Anonymous December 29, 2010 12:40 am
not exactly a lot of updating going on RD any more. any chance new vids will become more frequent?
mise December 29, 2010 1:46 am
give them a break! Its xmas. Its not like there are loads of adverts bringing in revenue festooning the site at the mo.
There's always youtube, y'know?
Sheesh.......
There's always youtube, y'know?
Sheesh.......
el December 30, 2010 4:30 am
Happy holidays to RD!
Thanks for yet another year of awesome rugby coverage!!
Thanks for yet another year of awesome rugby coverage!!
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