Thursday, January 27, 2011
David Lemi and Wasps snatch late win over Toulouse
This is the same game that we showed a clip from earlier in the week, when Florian Fritz was red carded for his tackle on Tom Varndell. Fritz raised his finger to the crowd while leaving the pitch, and is set to appear before a disciplinary commission on February 3.
He is suspended from all competitions until his hearing, ruling him out of Top 14 games.
It was a disappointing afternoon all round for Toulouse, who thought they had done enough after fighting back to be at 16-16 with time almost up. A moment of brilliance from Joe Simpson and a determined chase by David Lemi changed all that.
The late try meant a win for Wasps, and denied Toulouse their home quarter final, so they now travel to face Biarritz, in what should be a far more daunting prospect.
"Today we showed Wasps' true fighting spirit and we made quite a big point of Toulouse having never beaten Wasps in England. That was a point of pride for us," said Shaun Edwards.
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Florian Fritz gives the finger after red for dangerous tackle
Florian Fritz gives the finger after red for dangerous tackle
Posted at 2:05 pm | 52 comments
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no rain in spain January 27, 2011 2:17 pm
I walked into one of the only bars in Sevilla playing rugby and sat down a minute before Lemi's try.
Would've liked to see the whole match, but it was a great moment to turn on the game...I would've given a lot to have been in the stands at Adams Park, though...and I'm not even a Wasps fan.
Would've liked to see the whole match, but it was a great moment to turn on the game...I would've given a lot to have been in the stands at Adams Park, though...and I'm not even a Wasps fan.
Anonymous January 27, 2011 2:23 pm
was the ref having a shocker or what? card happy!? and not a red card offense.
Anonymous January 27, 2011 2:39 pm
The French do love giving away penalties don't they
Anonymous January 27, 2011 2:46 pm
The French hate giving away penalties like everyone else
Anonymous January 27, 2011 2:50 pm
the french more likely hate to receive undeserved cards (Picamoles's yellow and Fritz's red were jokes).
Kev January 27, 2011 3:35 pm
great run from lemi, but wasn't it a knock-on just before? look well.
Greg15 January 27, 2011 3:43 pm
Varndell seemed to have been the man of the match for wasps.
-Great runs durin the match
-Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles
-Being tackled by Fritz, andwatching rolland givin the red
^^
-Great runs durin the match
-Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles
-Being tackled by Fritz, andwatching rolland givin the red
^^
Anonymous January 27, 2011 3:49 pm
Why didn't the ref send of the Wasps 14 for throwing 5-6 punches?
The Fritz tackle was fine,
Awful game for the ref.
The Fritz tackle was fine,
Awful game for the ref.
Luxi January 27, 2011 4:27 pm
fritz's tackle isn't even worthy of a penalty, maybe a quick chat in the worst case, but definately not a red card.
plus varndell was probably in front of the kicker
plus varndell was probably in front of the kicker
Anonymous January 27, 2011 5:16 pm
I can't believe Wasp are happy with their result 16 against 14 and they barely win?
Tom January 27, 2011 5:39 pm
hey guys, just a couple of quick questions. Why did the toulouse number 8 get sent off? What was the actual offence? And how does the losing bonus point rule work? I assumed you could get a bonus point if you win or lose simply by scoring 4(??) tries. So if for example both sides scored 4 but one also converted more than the other. One side would win but they would both get a bonus point. The commentator said something about putting them in range of a losing bonus point when toulouse kicked a penalty so I'm slightly confused.
Anonymous January 27, 2011 5:39 pm
"Greg15 said...
Varndell seemed to have been the man of the match for wasps.
-Great runs durin the match
-Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles
-Being tackled by Fritz, andwatching rolland givin the red
^^"
"Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles"
You must have good eyes to see that he punched someone....
Varndell seemed to have been the man of the match for wasps.
-Great runs durin the match
-Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles
-Being tackled by Fritz, andwatching rolland givin the red
^^"
"Give a punch to a toulouse player without being carded and get the yellow for picamoles"
You must have good eyes to see that he punched someone....
davie January 27, 2011 5:46 pm
@ Tom
you get a losing bonus point for losing by less than 7 points and a try bonus for scoring 4 tries
you get a losing bonus point for losing by less than 7 points and a try bonus for scoring 4 tries
Von January 27, 2011 5:49 pm
Varndell threw a few punches, not sure any of them landed though.
First penalty was for dragging Varndell back into the ruck.
First penalty was for dragging Varndell back into the ruck.
Colombes January 27, 2011 6:34 pm
It's uncecessary to re-talk about fritz tackle. it wasn't red, we are all ok on it! but i think he will take an huge ban for the finger. Erc doesn't like this type of reaction and furthermore, he's french...
Varndell tried to send 2 punchs to toulouse players but i think he missed them twice, so no sin-bin
difficult to see if there is a knock-on lemi's try.. that said, his celebration is a bit too much, like ben youngs few days ago.
but as Edwards said they are proud to beat toulouse and to go in... challenge cup ;)
Varndell tried to send 2 punchs to toulouse players but i think he missed them twice, so no sin-bin
difficult to see if there is a knock-on lemi's try.. that said, his celebration is a bit too much, like ben youngs few days ago.
but as Edwards said they are proud to beat toulouse and to go in... challenge cup ;)
Anonymous January 27, 2011 7:53 pm
Red card according to the rules. Everyone saying it isn't a red or the ref is shit, read the fucking rules. It's nothing to do with being French, or playing for Toulouse or the ref being in any way bias.
"Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that players feet are still off the ground such that the players head and/or upper body
come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play."
Fritz did just this and although the result was not that bad, the intent was. Red card. Sorry French conspiracy theorists and Toulouse fans.
"Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that players feet are still off the ground such that the players head and/or upper body
come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play."
Fritz did just this and although the result was not that bad, the intent was. Red card. Sorry French conspiracy theorists and Toulouse fans.
Luxi January 27, 2011 8:19 pm
@anonymous 8:53pm 27/01/11
if the head or neck touches first its a spear tackle
but if its the back or ribs, its just a very good tackle that players all around the world have been doing for the last couple of decades..., for proof of this just browse RD and you'll find plenty of such tackles that are perfectly legal
if the head or neck touches first its a spear tackle
but if its the back or ribs, its just a very good tackle that players all around the world have been doing for the last couple of decades..., for proof of this just browse RD and you'll find plenty of such tackles that are perfectly legal
TheAnonymousOne January 27, 2011 8:28 pm
I never mentioned a spear tackle.
Let me quote again:
"Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that players feet are still off the ground such that the players head and/or upper body
come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play."
Fritz did just this. Did he not? That is a dangerous tackle.
Let me quote again:
"Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst
that players feet are still off the ground such that the players head and/or upper body
come into contact with the ground first is dangerous play."
Fritz did just this. Did he not? That is a dangerous tackle.
Jan January 27, 2011 9:04 pm
Lol people are still arguing about fritz tackle?!
If the rules say that to lift a player and make fall him on his Head or upper body, Well it's spear. But he doesn't seem nasty. Varndell felt on his side no?
For the famous french conspiracy, u Will gave to wait erc decision on the Red card and the finger. I dont think he Will take too much. The contrary would be, yes, too much
If the rules say that to lift a player and make fall him on his Head or upper body, Well it's spear. But he doesn't seem nasty. Varndell felt on his side no?
For the famous french conspiracy, u Will gave to wait erc decision on the Red card and the finger. I dont think he Will take too much. The contrary would be, yes, too much
Gav January 27, 2011 9:33 pm
Luxi -
They changed the rule in December. It does not have to be the head/neck - any part of the upper body is now the rule. This allows for players who try to prevent their necks from being broken by trying to land with their arms first.
I wish people would learn the laws before crying about the ref :(
They changed the rule in December. It does not have to be the head/neck - any part of the upper body is now the rule. This allows for players who try to prevent their necks from being broken by trying to land with their arms first.
I wish people would learn the laws before crying about the ref :(
Connor January 27, 2011 10:11 pm
rugby etiquette aside, fritz should've directed that finger right at the ref on behalf of everyone who watched that shite.
secondly, how does varndell stay on the pitch after blatantly throwing (and missing admittedly)punches during and after the breakdown.?
secondly, how does varndell stay on the pitch after blatantly throwing (and missing admittedly)punches during and after the breakdown.?
Chris Boy January 27, 2011 10:20 pm
if that's a red card then I'm richer than bill gates.
Anonymous January 27, 2011 10:28 pm
Jesus Christ, does anyone know the fucking laws? 'Not a red'? No, not in fucking fantasy wrestling, it's not. In rugby union, under the laws of January 2011, it FUCKING IS.
So many fucking idiots who don't know the laws, and call themselves fans.
So many fucking idiots who don't know the laws, and call themselves fans.
Peace January 27, 2011 10:52 pm
I mean who are these people writing some of these comments? By the laws that is a red card. Maybe it doesn't get given every time but you can't complain when it does. You may sound really tough writing it but do you even play the game??? Jees.
And also what was wrong with the celebration? You can't just go writing rubbish just because your team loses or a team you don't like wins. Unless you're 15 years, in fact that might explain alot on here.
And also what was wrong with the celebration? You can't just go writing rubbish just because your team loses or a team you don't like wins. Unless you're 15 years, in fact that might explain alot on here.
Gav January 27, 2011 10:52 pm
http://www.rugby365.com/news/2686461.htm
Hope the link works. If it doesn't, go to rugby365.com and add /news/2686461.htm
It pertains to the red card.
Hope the link works. If it doesn't, go to rugby365.com and add /news/2686461.htm
It pertains to the red card.
Canadian Content January 28, 2011 12:17 am
Several points
-My gf was over and I was unable to watch the game, this I regret
-Poor old Varndell got quite physically abused during that match, though I think the 19 year old shoving him back was the most humbling
-Fritz did not deserve a red for that, perhaps a yellow
-Census Johnson made Andy Powell look very slow and ineffectual in defence there
-The offload off the highball for the first Toulouse try was brilliant, not enough of that kind of risk taking in rugby, allez les francais
-My gf was over and I was unable to watch the game, this I regret
-Poor old Varndell got quite physically abused during that match, though I think the 19 year old shoving him back was the most humbling
-Fritz did not deserve a red for that, perhaps a yellow
-Census Johnson made Andy Powell look very slow and ineffectual in defence there
-The offload off the highball for the first Toulouse try was brilliant, not enough of that kind of risk taking in rugby, allez les francais
Toulousain January 28, 2011 1:11 am
Fritz's intention was dangerous but the result of his tackle was not dangerous. Mister Rolland took his decision a bit too quickly but he had to... Turn of the match. Fritz didn't deserve that but he lost his mind and penalized his own team. he should be ashamed about that.
Anonymous January 28, 2011 3:49 am
Im qualified as a ref, all be it not an overly experienced one. I know what the rules say but when you see a player lift another player in such a way that his feet pass beyond the horizontal your immediate reaction is to reach for a card because 9 times out of 10 its just plain dangerous. Fritz had enough time to tackle Varndell properly but he didnt. The ref doesnt have the benefit of a replay like everyone here thats criticizing him, and I think his decision was harsh but justified.
As far as the other incidents, Picamoles was binned because he pulled the scrum half, (Varndell at the time), into the ruck twice in order to slow the game down which is cynical play. Betson binning was similar in that diving in was intended to slow Toulouse momentum.
I think all the cards in this game were a bit harsh but all in all the ref was consistently harsh with both teams so all the complaining is just stupid
By the way im totally neutral as I hate both these teams ;)
As far as the other incidents, Picamoles was binned because he pulled the scrum half, (Varndell at the time), into the ruck twice in order to slow the game down which is cynical play. Betson binning was similar in that diving in was intended to slow Toulouse momentum.
I think all the cards in this game were a bit harsh but all in all the ref was consistently harsh with both teams so all the complaining is just stupid
By the way im totally neutral as I hate both these teams ;)
IRBareLulz January 28, 2011 8:06 am
If the laws say that's a red card, then the laws are asinine. They need to be reviewed, immediately.
It's amazing how pro-establishment some people are. Laws are not self justifying. Just because something is a law doesn't prevent it being stupid and questionable.
This is just another case of Rugby turning into Andrex-Ball and supposed fans supporting the change because 'rules is rules'.
You people can't think for yourself?
It's amazing how pro-establishment some people are. Laws are not self justifying. Just because something is a law doesn't prevent it being stupid and questionable.
This is just another case of Rugby turning into Andrex-Ball and supposed fans supporting the change because 'rules is rules'.
You people can't think for yourself?
fry January 28, 2011 8:46 am
Alright, settle down Che Guevara.
Yeah, laws ought to be reviewable, but when they are, more often than not, people get up in arms about that too (a la ELVs).
Yeah, laws ought to be reviewable, but when they are, more often than not, people get up in arms about that too (a la ELVs).
Gav January 28, 2011 9:31 am
Um, it's not 'pro-establishment' to say that the rules mean that the red was correct. I happen to think that dangerous tackles need to be prevented, and that is what that rule is for.
And if you blame the referee for sticking to that rule, perhaps you will be happy if he chooses which rules to enforce and which to ignore? Maybe the forward pass rule is preventing exciting moves like in American Football - maybe some refs should ignore that one?
And if you blame the referee for sticking to that rule, perhaps you will be happy if he chooses which rules to enforce and which to ignore? Maybe the forward pass rule is preventing exciting moves like in American Football - maybe some refs should ignore that one?
Anonymous January 28, 2011 9:50 am
the yellow card for Picamoles is a joke aswell!
Don January 28, 2011 11:20 am
to all law protectors,
As some people, that the laws should prevent serious injuries (head, upper body, etc...) What ur laws say about Rautenbach accident? A stamp on the head isn't it sanctionned by a red card?
the ref gave a yellow. does it mean that he applied the rules? No!
He interprates the rules in order to know if it was intentional, acccidental, with injury consequences, the moment of a match, the nervousity of the teams, etc...
u can have a lot of rules, at the end, the ref decides, well, or bad on both cases
As some people, that the laws should prevent serious injuries (head, upper body, etc...) What ur laws say about Rautenbach accident? A stamp on the head isn't it sanctionned by a red card?
the ref gave a yellow. does it mean that he applied the rules? No!
He interprates the rules in order to know if it was intentional, acccidental, with injury consequences, the moment of a match, the nervousity of the teams, etc...
u can have a lot of rules, at the end, the ref decides, well, or bad on both cases
Nick January 28, 2011 12:08 pm
Lets be honest, igonring the red, the picomoles card seemed a bit harsh (I initially couldn't work out what it was for) and if he's going to send him off for that shouldn't Varndell had a bit of 'cooling off' time. The Betsen card semed a bit harsh as well, he came through the lack of ruck and as I saw it the scrum half had the ball... ok, it maybe miss timed but a yellow?
Lemi is a great winger though, decent pace and considering his size his defence is awesome.
Lemi is a great winger though, decent pace and considering his size his defence is awesome.
bib160 January 28, 2011 6:07 pm
according to the rules previously cited it is dangerous play. However if the ones who cited the rules were able to copy and paste more than 3lines they wouldn't have ommited the recommended sanction for this kind of action which is "penalty kick" please do not ask to read carefully if you are not able to do so.
Toulouse should have cited varndel for his two attemps of punch on Picamoles.
Toulouse should have cited varndel for his two attemps of punch on Picamoles.
Anonymous January 28, 2011 6:14 pm
concerning lemis try
I can a forward pass from the prop to the scrumhalf and a knock on by the same scrum half.
The ref (who is usually a good ref) as done only shit during this match
I can a forward pass from the prop to the scrumhalf and a knock on by the same scrum half.
The ref (who is usually a good ref) as done only shit during this match
TheAnonymousOne January 29, 2011 5:23 pm
Don, most people are in agreement that the ref got it wrong on that occasion (the stamp). Obviously, referees can get it wrong, but Rolland's decision on Fritz' tackle was the correct call.
I was talking to a friend regarding the card. He compared the situation to referees giving yellow cards in football for lifting your shirts in celebration. The rules may be a bit off, but the referees have to abide by them. There job is to abide by the current rules, not to pick and choose. So, on this occasion Rolland was absolutely correct. If any complaints are to be made, they should be made against the IRB.
I was talking to a friend regarding the card. He compared the situation to referees giving yellow cards in football for lifting your shirts in celebration. The rules may be a bit off, but the referees have to abide by them. There job is to abide by the current rules, not to pick and choose. So, on this occasion Rolland was absolutely correct. If any complaints are to be made, they should be made against the IRB.
TheAnonymousOne January 29, 2011 5:25 pm
"according to the rules previously cited it is dangerous play. However if the ones who cited the rules were able to copy and paste more than 3lines they wouldn't have ommited the recommended sanction for this kind of action which is "penalty kick" please do not ask to read carefully if you are not able to do so."
You obviously aren't aware of this:
10.5a: "Any player who infringes any part of the Foul Play Law must be admonished, or cautioned
and temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes playing time, or sent-off."
You obviously aren't aware of this:
10.5a: "Any player who infringes any part of the Foul Play Law must be admonished, or cautioned
and temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes playing time, or sent-off."
katman January 30, 2011 10:58 am
Stop the vid at exactly 1:11 and you'll see that the Toulouse try congratulations is a little culturally odd. Grabbing your teammate's face in both hands and planting a big kiss on the lips would elicit a frown or two where I'm from.
Dalma February 01, 2011 4:47 pm
"Jesus Christ, does anyone know the fucking laws? 'Not a red'? No, not in fucking fantasy wrestling, it's not. In rugby union, under the laws of January 2011, it FUCKING IS."
Please, let us see another similar tackles that ended by a straight red. I guess you won't find any.
Please, let us see another similar tackles that ended by a straight red. I guess you won't find any.
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