Monday, February 14, 2011
Hugo Southwell gets introduced to Lee Byrne's boot
Its a tricky one to judge as Southwell took a boot to the face from his challenge on Wales fullback Lee Byrne, resulting in a nasty looking gash and a premature exit from the game. While the challenge was dangerous, he was not yellow carded, with referee George Clancy perhaps sympathising with the fact that the injury was punishment enough.
Two years ago an almost identical incident occurred in the same fixture when Geoff Cross was up against the same player, fullback Byrne. He too came off second best, knocking himself unconscious in the process. Referee Alain Rolland issued the card nevertheless, despite him being driven off on a stretcher.
While in many ways on this occasion Southwell did receive some form of punishment, is there still room for refs to make those type of emotional calls Perhaps it was admirable, but it looked incorrect as Byrne could have horribly. By all means if his boot wasnt out, he might have.
Which brings up another question to ponder should players, most often fullbacks under the high ball, be allowed to lead with their boot so far out in that fashion? It is one of the perks of the job, or should the technique be looked at and possibly outlawed?
Whatever the case, it was a nasty incident that resulted in Southwell receiving stitches for the self-inflicted facial lacerations. Opinions on this incident will vary, so please share yours.
Wales get much needed win over Scotland at Murrayfield
Geoff Cross knocked out in Lee Byrne collision (2009)
Posted at 5:28 pm | 110 comments
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Viewing 110 comments
Maverick February 14, 2011 10:02 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:04 pm

Weedo February 14, 2011 10:06 pm

SmellyNerfherder February 14, 2011 10:06 pm

It's just a shame it wasn't the other way round... I can think of quite a few players who wouldn't mind a chance to put a boot in Lee Byrne's face!
Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:06 pm

Dave February 14, 2011 10:07 pm

CB February 14, 2011 10:08 pm

Tweeds February 14, 2011 10:09 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:12 pm

Nathan February 14, 2011 10:14 pm

There's no reason to jump with your studs pointing at a players face" Protection" is not an excuse!!!
Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:14 pm

No9 February 14, 2011 10:19 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:20 pm

Christopher February 14, 2011 10:22 pm

He deserved to get yellow carded.
Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:25 pm

In truth the cut to Hugo's face is his own fault. He should not have run into it. The boot is there to deter people doing this stupid stuff. In a way it is good that the boot is up. What is worse a cut on the face or a dislocated shoulder...
Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:26 pm

creggs08 February 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:28 pm

Shergar February 14, 2011 10:31 pm

Jjo February 14, 2011 10:35 pm

Also saying that his foot is up there gor protection is not a good excuse its not needed as southwell wouldn't have hot him unless his leg was extended in front of him.
I dont like byrne for staying on the ground only to get up fine aminute later. Simelar kind of of thing as last years dive against scotland at the millenium stadium. Also a simelar dive vs france the year before.
Jjo February 14, 2011 10:35 pm

Also saying that his foot is up there gor protection is not a good excuse its not needed as southwell wouldn't have hot him unless his leg was extended in front of him.
I dont like byrne for staying on the ground only to get up fine aminute later. Simelar kind of of thing as last years dive against scotland at the millenium stadium. Also a simelar dive vs france the year before.
Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:37 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:39 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:39 pm

Tony February 14, 2011 10:47 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 10:51 pm

RD February 14, 2011 10:52 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 11:00 pm

Anonymous February 14, 2011 11:01 pm

Southwell's not a dirty player and this just seemed a clusmy, mistiming of his attempt to get there to challenge for the ball.
You can see him lose the flight of the ball and look up to see where it is, find it and then at the same time realise he is about to run into Byrne's boot and thinks 'oh shit'.
The real winner here is slow motion camera work.
(u-p)rick February 14, 2011 11:27 pm

Byrne puts the boot up as a deterrent... And there are no issues there. What I don't like was the way he fakes an injury to make southwells attack on him just that bit nastier.
I don't think Southwell did it on purpose but I wouldn't argue with a yellow card. However Byrnes little diving act has been seen game after game after game...and I get a little sick of it...
Shorty February 14, 2011 11:29 pm

The tackler clearly tried to stop too late but that doesn't (and shouldn't) matter. He hit a player who was in the air and that is dangerous play and deserved a yellow.
The player jumping clearly put his boot out for protection and he is responsible for his boots. Just like a player driving through a ruck is not allowed to put a boot to a player's head intentionally or accidentally. I would have given the receiver a red card for his carelessness (or in my eyes, his purposeful dangerous play).
You can't hit a player in the air but that doesn't give a receiver in the air rights to do whatever he pleases. You can't hit a jumper in the air at a line-out either but that doesn't give him rights to start sending his feet flying.
Anonymous February 14, 2011 11:54 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 12:20 am

miguel February 15, 2011 12:44 am

as for byrne as far as I'm aware his jump is fine, if dangerous. tackling a player who is trying to catch that is too high is dangerous but why should that action be penalized? if the IRB changes the rule so that the player can only lead with a knee, so be it, but I feel the way things are allowed are just fine. what byrne did was dangerous but so is charging ahead with you shoulder (just ask ali williams what he thinks of chabal's) these acts are far different from spearing and gouging and should not be treated as such.
miguel February 15, 2011 12:46 am

No.9 February 15, 2011 12:56 am

respecting to the boot up matter, i think that very dirty, in a match played in argentina, the pumas were v england and cueto jumped for a high ball, with a sort of karate kick in the air, that could have been REALLY dangerous.
auckblues22 February 15, 2011 1:05 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 2:15 am

If Southwell was to be carded Byrne even more so.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 2:17 am

However Southwell didn't mean to tackle him in the air if anything its the fact that he hastried to pull out that has got him the injury. If he went through byrne at full tilt he would have probably been fine.
Byrne should have seen a straight red for his high challengee on Max Evans thats what you call "intent".
Tom February 15, 2011 2:18 am

Byrne obviously did not mean to kick him in the face, you'd be nuts to think that. It's just one of those things that can happen in rugby. It's not the first time and won't be the last.
And Southwell ran in, couldn't pull out, so still deserves a penalty against him (the same way an accidental head high deserves a penalty) but that's all. A card would have been ridiculous.
All in all, absolutley nothing to worry about, shit happens.
Tom February 15, 2011 2:21 am

Is it the soccer watching or something?
Cuz in the SH most people would just shrug and say 'shit happens'.
Nothing in that was intentional, it all worked out ok.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 3:11 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 4:43 am

roberts28 February 15, 2011 5:40 am

lwroberts February 15, 2011 5:58 am

roberts28 February 15, 2011 6:01 am

auckblues22 February 15, 2011 6:05 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 7:41 am

Oodles February 15, 2011 9:02 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 9:49 am

Coaches teach played to bring their knee up when catching a high ball, but to put out a boot studs first is reckless and dangerous. Having said that Southwell was clumsy in his tackle approach. If I had not seen Byrne do this before, I would have said its not his fault, but he is on the Knife edge of the law and is doing this with full intent. Even after the incident, he just trots away, without even checking on Southwell. Not very Rugby Behavior
welshwizard February 15, 2011 10:05 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 10:08 am

Gaz February 15, 2011 10:23 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 10:39 am

A boot to the face is the least this skidmark on the underpants of international rugby deserves.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 10:59 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 11:23 am

Anonymous February 15, 2011 11:46 am

I think playing to the ref is something that should be left to the footballers, Byrne has done it before (the dive) and will most likely do it again. I hope this doesn't start a trend and rugby takes a turn for the worst.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 12:08 pm

I'm a full back and I stick my foot/knee out in front of me EVERY time I go up for a high ball. I can show you several examples from this season of why it's a GOOD idea.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 1:27 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 1:46 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 1:51 pm

How on earth can anyone even guess what Byrne's intent was? His leg wasn't out at 90deg, and it's only due to the fact that Southwell was practically underneath him at the point of contact that his studs caught him.
Not certain it was as cynical on Southwell's part as some have made out either. Judging by his body-language on contact (protecting himself), it seems like it may not have been an aggressive/premeditated decision to connect with Byrne while he was in the air. Perhaps we can call it 'clumsy', and say that this was fairly dealt with by the officials (note that neither touchjudges' flag was out for either 'offence').
As for this business of Byrne's 'acting' - I would suggest that most who are claiming he "wasn't hurt" should try being dropped flat onto their back from 4-5ft.
He hits the deck and puts his hands on his head (not face - those claiming otherwise should look again - as he is lying FACE DOWN), which may have simply been a result of having the stuffing knocked out of him by the fall.
You guys crack me up with some of the 'conclusions' you arrive at on the basis of such massive assumptions...
F February 15, 2011 2:01 pm

yellow - Southwell.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 2:05 pm

Don't be silly. It was a poor timed run by southwell and he got punished for it. Any sooner and it would have been a contest in the air.
Both men were intent on going for the ball and Byrne came out on top.
Matt February 15, 2011 2:37 pm

It seems to me that, when the ball is in the air, everyone who is attempting to catch the ball (as opposed to attempting to tackle a player catching it) should be treated equally. Does this imply that Southwell would have been ok to have jumped and raised studs while attempting a catch? That surely increases the overall level of danger in the situation. Also seems strange that that would be considered ok, whereas attempting to pull out and receiving a facefull of studs is worthy of a penalty!
Anonymous February 15, 2011 2:40 pm

Did Byrne know what he was doing with his foot up like that? I think so!
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Tom February 15, 2011 3:08 pm

Is it the soccer watching or something?
Cuz in the SH most people would just shrug and say 'shit happens'.
Nothing in that was intentional, it all worked out ok.
Sorry, I forgot to add 'unless it happens to Richie McCaw' at the end of 'Cuz in the SH most people would just shrug and say 'shit happens'.'
Sammy February 15, 2011 3:21 pm

Remember Nathan Hines swipe on lee Byrne, no doubt that actually hurt I do not deny that, but watch the fashion in which Byrne goes from being hit to ending up on the ground and watch how he rolls... Are we not all aware that if we suffer an injury rolling may increase the injury?!?
RD how about we have a compilation of Lee Byrne acting like a football fag?
Lee Byrne is a Cheat February 15, 2011 3:55 pm

Created last year after his disgusting dive, some of you may be interested! If RD could conribute a Lee Byrne play-acting, foul play, unsportsmanlike, extra man compilation that would be great, although i'm not sure if you can upload videos more than 10 hours long!
ryebye February 15, 2011 4:10 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 4:18 pm

I'm losing sympathy for byrne through the years though. Loved him early on but he's gaining a reputation for causing injuries to other players (thom evans) and is little more than a thug these days.
Anonymous February 15, 2011 5:30 pm

I am 15 of formation and you are never supose to defend you with your boots, even if you think that the player in front of you gonna come a bit hard. Imagine the number of injury if everybody does that.
So obviously it's a yellow for Southwell for bad tackle and everybody seems to say that. But it's also a yellow (perharps a red) for Byrn because of this really dangerous.
I am not a fan of Scotland or Wales, don't worry.
Tom
Luxi February 15, 2011 5:44 pm

Nathan February 15, 2011 5:45 pm

If Southwell had jumped for the ball, where would of Byrnes studs gone then?
There is no part in rugby where you should be allowed to go into possible contact with your studs showing..
Andy M February 15, 2011 6:02 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 6:12 pm

martin-offload February 15, 2011 6:38 pm

Anonymous February 15, 2011 10:29 pm

1) Full backs are trained to lead with the knee or studs when jumping for a ball in order to put idiots off tackling them in the air. Fly halves also leave their kicking foot (studs up) a second longer in the air to put off potential late tacklers.
2) If Southwell had waited for Byrne to land on the ground before tackling him, then he wouldn't have got studs in his face. Mis-timed tackle in the air - yellow card decision for Southwell.
3) If any of you have ever been taken out in the air, you would realise that its a fair way to fall and you get the wind knocked out of you. Hence Byrne was on the ground for a few seconds after the illegal tackle.
scrum February 15, 2011 10:50 pm

Anonymous February 16, 2011 1:29 am

yeup, definately a back...
Anonymous February 16, 2011 1:41 am

However, he was always going to hit him, he had no chance of slowing down or avoiding Byrnes jump. In fact the only person being dangerous was Byrne by leading with his studs. Yet the rule books says Southwell is the guilty party.
So what should have Southwell done? Should he have jumped with his boot out in front to protect himself from Byrne? Or should he have just given up chasing a ball he would have been able to catch? Personally I think jumping late with studs out is dangerous and should be prohibited! My evidence is the several stitches in Southwells face.
jono February 16, 2011 1:51 am

That's soccer talk.
Stiches are something that almost every rugy player gets at some point, get over it.
Southwell shouldn't have run into him, end of story, he committed a penalty.
Byrne wouldn't have studded him if he hadn't run into Byrne.
So he gets a couple stiches, and he's fine and we all forget about it, cuz it's rugby.
Anonymous February 16, 2011 11:36 am

So you're saying Bryne kicked him in the face? I think it's more the case Southwell ran into his boot. It's the equivilent of driving into a stationary vehicle and blaming the vehicle for being in you're way.
(u-p)rick February 16, 2011 1:58 pm

Now alot of people have said as a fullback you're taught to have a high knee or a boot sticking out....what position was Southwell playing? 15...
My point is, what if The whole situation was exactly the same, except Southwell jumped and stuck a boot out and Byrne didn't jump but ran onto Southwells boot... Do you think as the attacking player Southwell would be sanctioned for sticking a boot out?
I mean you don't stick a boot out if you're jumping for a hospital pass... (thinking aloud here)
Flipje February 16, 2011 2:46 pm

Fair point raised.
I "feel" in the reverse situation, this will have lead probably to a penalty against Byrne... but some will still question the extending boots. Matter of interpretation from the ref....
About the incident, I believe Byrne/Southall are both partially at fault. But nothing malicious from either side (just unintentional)
Still what is the law on competing on high ball? Are you allowed to extend your boot? Sounds difficult to believe?
Gustavo A. Reginato February 16, 2011 3:27 pm

No problem with jumps, knees or what else, but, the problem would be the studs.
Something like this...
Anonymous February 16, 2011 5:27 pm

Anonymous February 16, 2011 6:49 pm

Tom February 16, 2011 11:43 pm

There are enough bloody rules in rugby already.
This is a NOTHING incident.
Get over it.
Southwell shouldn't have played the man in the air, he got what he deserved for being reckless.
Tim February 17, 2011 12:48 am

A lot in rugby seems to go the defending teams way in terms of these gray areas. Don't ask me for an example but it seems that the attacking team gets penalised more for up and unders than the defending side.
Tom February 17, 2011 5:34 am

But the rule about playing the man in the air must favour the man who gets to the ball first, in this case Byrne.
If you're going to challenge the kick, you must be playing the ball.
This rule is for safety, it's extremely dangerous to take out a catcher in the air, that's how guys get broken necks.
If Southwell had been in the air playing the ball legally, it wouldn;t matter if he stuck his foot out, he could do it to his hearts content and it wouldn't have much of any effect.
He is in the wrong for taking the man out in the air.
He obviously didn't mean it, it was simply reckless, which is why I would say a penalty would be fine, a yellow would be overkill.
The boot to the face was as a result of him taking a guy out in the air.
Regardless, there's very little in it.
The cut is vicous looking, but basically superficial. Everyone gets cut at some point in rugby. It bleeds and looks bad, but is not very dangerous at all.
However, being taken out in the air and landing on your neck is extremely dangerous and could result in crippling or death.
Southwell should have got out of the way or played the ball legally.
Besides the likelihood that Byrne meant to kick him in the face is massivley remote. Southwell shouldn't have been there anyway.
Anonymous February 17, 2011 9:56 am

Anonymous February 17, 2011 10:46 am

So much for superficial eh Tom!
Anonymous February 17, 2011 7:41 pm

Jimbo1 February 17, 2011 8:59 pm

A_Real_Full_Back February 17, 2011 9:00 pm

Anonymous February 17, 2011 9:32 pm

Nothing wrong with raising a boot / elbow when in the air, it's the opponent's choice to run into it or not!
Tom February 17, 2011 10:02 pm

Southwell shouldn't have been anywhere near Byrne if he wasn't in the air playing the ball.
This wouldn't have happened if he had obeyed the rules.
Buster Broon February 18, 2011 2:47 am

Byrne was in the air long before Southwell was anywhere near him and his foot positioning was completely safe. Well, completely safe as long as people abide by the rules that are in place to protect them.
The rules that Southwell broke are there to protect all parties including the people making the illegal tackle and if you break he rules, intentionally or not, you need to take the consequences.
He may be Scottish but Southwell was lucky he avoided the yellow card but he did get a face full of foot which was down to him not abiding by the rules.
Now if somebody could arrange for Dylan Hartley to perform an illegal tackle like Southwell and get his face kicked off then universal balance would truly be restored.
Stephen February 18, 2011 1:18 pm

Anonymous February 18, 2011 3:27 pm

I think the question is more 'why is byrne such a fag!' lying on the floor like a f*cking soccer player!
Cheyanqu February 18, 2011 4:43 pm

studs up is dirty play in any sport -- ask Ty Cobb or any soccer player.
Hamish February 22, 2011 9:11 am

Yellow for Southwell.
RED for Byrne!!!!! Whether you are coached jump with your studs out in front or not it is irrelevant. You simply cannot kick the opposite player in the face whether you are on the ground or in the air. Look at the Video in slow mo and that is what Byrne did.
It is questionable whether there would have been anything like as much contact had Byrne not stuck his foot out.
If you want to protect yourself, you lift your knee up towards your chest.
Hamish February 22, 2011 1:54 pm

Byrne was in the air long before Southwell was anywhere near him no he wasnt.
his foot positioning was completely safe. No it wasnt
as long as people abide by the rules that are in place to protect them This is rather like saying you cannot high tackle but if you do, its OK for the tackled player to stick his fingers in your eye.
The Golf Geek February 23, 2011 2:31 pm

Leading with the foot- I think in time it will [& should] be looked upon like using the outside arm in the lineout. I know Byrne is far from alone in doing this, but his play-acting & gamesmanship make him a disgrace to the proud traditions of the Welsh game. Granted, I'm a Scot, but I would be furious with any Scottish player who chose to behave like that. Byrne is a man of no integrity, and as such should not be anywhere near the Welsh side.
Might I suggest that any future contact with Byrne be considered a card-able offence if he's unable to take any further part in the game? Would be an apposite way to deal with the sporting cancer that is simulation?
Buster Broon February 24, 2011 12:32 am

Not sure what you're suggesting to be honest as what you say doesn't seem to have any reference to what happened in the incident.
If somebody tackles you, whether it is high or not and they decide to push their face against the tackled players hand/foot/anything else then it's quite rightly their responsibility.
I appreciate you don't agree but that doesn't affect anything as very few people seem to agree with you and more importantly the officials and the citing commissioner disagree with you.
I appreciate that national support is affecting people here which is good but the rules don't change because of the colour of the shirt being worn.
I appreciate it didn't happen but if Southwell had knocked Byrne just a couple of inches further and he'd landed on his neck then this thread could have been very different to the one it is now.
As I said though, it doesn't really matter what we think as we aren't the match officials and their decision correctly stands.
Anonymous May 20, 2011 4:39 pm
















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