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England beat Baby Boks in JWC2014 final


Ma'afu banned for punch on Tom Youngs

Monday, March 07, 2011

Rory Sidey suspended after red card spear on Odwa Ndungane

Rory Sidey suspended after red card spear on Odwa Ndungane

Force centre Rory Sidey has been suspended following his dangerous tackle on Sharks wing Odwa Ndungane in their Super Rugby game in Perth on Saturday. Ndungane has since been released from hospital after being stretchered off.

Sidey was on the field as a replacement for Mitch Inman, who dislocated his elbow. It was a match Sidey would rather forget, as within a few minutes of being on the park he coughed up a ball that led to Ndunganes opportunistic try.

Shortly after that, he and Gene Fairbanks combined to tip the Sharks winger in what resulted in a nasty looking spear tackle, and an injury to the Springbok. A straight red card followed, with the referee having little option but to send him off.

He has since been suspended for three weeks following a judicial hearing.

The red card and suspension were upheld under Law 10.4 (j): Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that players feet are still off the ground such that the players head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.

The lowest recommended suspension is 3 weeks, which is what he received.

Ndungane was carried off the field and spent the night in hospital, but has since recovered well and been released, and should be back in training fairly soon.

We often hear complaints about how the game is getting soft or that the rulings are too harsh when it comes to tip/spear tackles, but this incident shows that the laws are in place for a reason, and Ndungane is pretty lucky to not have been more severely injured.

It's probably fair to say that Fairbanks was also fairly lucky to get away with his involvement in the tackle, as was Alistair Hargreaves for his retaliation. The Sharks won the game 31-12.

Time: 03:21

Posted at 11:15 am | 72 comments

Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play

Viewing 72 comments

themull March 07, 2011 12:52 pm

A one or two match ban match ban would of more than sufficed really....

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Alexander March 07, 2011 12:54 pm

Mmmm, tough to know who is really to blame in this incident. Fairbanks didn't help things!

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themull March 07, 2011 12:55 pm

he was tipped far beyond control due to the second player making the tackle in my opinion....Plus white number 5 is lucky as what he did was no different than what Bakkies Botha(I believe) did during the lions tour...In fact it is much worse as at least Bakkies hit a man who was still on his feet and protecting the ball unlike this incident

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bplouis March 07, 2011 1:00 pm

red card is justified, but a match ban...he clearly did not mean to spear tackle, the 12 pulled Ndungane to the ground thats what gave such a tackle !

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o'brien March 07, 2011 1:00 pm

rugby isn't tiddlywinks

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Citing Commissioner March 07, 2011 1:04 pm

It's good for my business when people go slowly into contact against two players with an upright body position... ...



...kind of asking to be smashed

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SpencaH March 07, 2011 1:05 pm

Seriously what is it with auzzie commentators!! Does anyone else think they are THE most bias of the lot? I mean in you watched this game, listen to some of their comments!!

E.g. a squint throw in a lineout by the force = "I know that wasnt straight but they didnt even contest it so can the ref just let it go?"

or with this incident!
"at first look, that looked okay"

Seriously!! Same chat ever week man!!

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 1:18 pm

in the very first camera angle it doesnt look that bad.

the most bias commentators are by far the kiwis

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Wolfman March 07, 2011 1:24 pm

It first look it did seem ok - live, I thought there was nothing wrong with it because it looks like players supported him down. On further inspection this is not the case. As dor the skew lineout, I also don't think it should be called if the other team isn't competing for the ball as the skew throw in doesn't influence the game if the other team isn't competing.

Tackles like this are always tough - it wasn't done on purpose, it was a high impact collision with a player going low, and another player going high. If 12 hadn't grab him round the chest, Ndungane wouldn't have tipped over.

Redcard, and I will be flogged for this, is too harsh in my opinion. It was a collision with three players involved, and the spear was a clear accident with no malicious intent. You could say it was 12's fault or Sidey's fault.

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wrfc36 March 07, 2011 1:32 pm

I must be to old school, i think 5 should be yellow carded and 22 should still be playing. Perfect form tackle, would have come down on his back if the 2nd tackler was not there.

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Gee Dubya March 07, 2011 1:32 pm

I'd say Fairbanks was real luck to get away, it looked like him whipping the bloke's head to the ground turned it into the spear

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Steve Carr March 07, 2011 1:53 pm

This is a ridiculous citing, Sidey has clearly committed to a legal old fashioned dump tackle, the guy landed on his back not his head or neck. Though if the tackle was considered dangerous it was due to Fairbanks's assistance.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 2:03 pm

If a South African made such a tackle, he would get 8 weeks at least. Shocking.

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Julius Malema March 07, 2011 2:11 pm

They are Racist!

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 2:16 pm

What does everyone else think of this tactic by all teams these days?

Whenever there's a questionable tackle - and this was, and technically illegal - teams pile in, to put pressure on the ref.

I hate that.

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Chris March 07, 2011 2:19 pm

the criminal element at it again

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Chris T March 07, 2011 2:31 pm

Thank god a referee has finally had the balls to do this. If the ref thinks its a red then it is, no need to argue about it and if anyone tries to defend a tackle where your head / neck /shoulders hit the ground first then you should be ashamed.

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katman March 07, 2011 2:34 pm

You old school defenders of the spear tackle are a real hoot. Every time someone gets tipped up and driven into the ground, we hear how that should have been let go. This time the recipient actually gets stretchered off and spends the night in hospital, and youre still tut-tutting about how soft the game has become. From the comfort of your desk chairs. Tough bunch, you are.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 2:43 pm

Rightly deserved that red card did Rory Sidey. It was a sickening tackle. I'm more perplexed by the attitude of Nathan Sharpe after Sidey got the card. He showed some serious idiocy in questioning the ref's decision by saying "these are the sort of things that ruin games". That may be true but when you hospitalise a player with a tackle, what else can you expect!

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HoopsvsSolids March 07, 2011 3:19 pm

Katman and Chris T, this was an accident. Weird thing happen in rugby, especially 2 on 1 tackles.

I'm sorry Ndungane was hurt, but if you run into two guy standing up you are going to be put down. They both wrapped and neither went too high.

Tackling like this was commonplace in my teens and twenties (90's-00's)and no card or penalty was given. The player that got speared was at fault for running too high into contact. The way I see it, if a guy wraps me up anywhere under my neck and brings me down it's a fair tackle. I'm not on a macho trip or anything, I just think that when a player gets dumped it's usually his own fault. It was my fault when I got dumped!

This was not thuggish, it was accidental. Sharpe is right, refs are ruining the game.

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NO.9 March 07, 2011 3:45 pm

RD. could you please post the highlights of the bulls v highlanders match, IT WAS GREAT!

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SmellyNerfherder March 07, 2011 4:02 pm

I think Sharp was right to challenge the call, as a red card 17 minutes into the game is pretty steep, especially when Force had already had two guys come off injured.

White 5s little shoulder barge was impressive too!

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Von March 07, 2011 4:08 pm

HoopsvsSolids said...
They both wrapped and neither went too high.

I suggest you watch the replay at 0:36.

I think Sidey deserved the red card purely on account of the high-pitched girly yelp of indignation (1:18) when the ref showed him the red card!!

I think the ref made the right call here, based on what he and the touch-judge could have observed at the time. With the benefit of this video though, I think the Citing Commissioner has failed. Sidey's got the minimum/entry-level ban, so you can't argue with that even though I think it's a bit harsh.

I think Fairbanks was more responsible for the dangerous element and the resulting injury.

I also think the Sharks lock flying in afterwards and "doing a Bakkies" should have been given a long ban. Worse than Botha's antics really as he's hitting a prone, defenceless player,l from the side, with aggressive force.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 4:20 pm

Sidey was utter shit in this game.. He came on, lost the ball forward to Ndundane for the Shark's first try, and then let his team mates down with a red card + 3 match ban.

I know he was very excited to get his chance following Inman's injury, but he did not capitalize on it. If the Force can pull it off without him in the next weeks, I doubt he'll get another chance.

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Stag March 07, 2011 4:34 pm

I think that the tackle would have been a good honest dump tackle if Fairbanks hadnt yanked him down with the added force and funny angle. Sidey saw an easy oppotunity for a smash and he took it, he had no power over what Fairbanks's actions. in my oppinion Fairbanks should have got the red.

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Aaron March 07, 2011 4:54 pm

A shoulder charge on a prone, unsuspecting player's head with malicious intent is far worse than a 2 on 1 borderline tackle with no malicious intent against a player who is negligently not defending himself. The most innocent person was punished the harshest, and the most guilty person was not punished at all.

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Veji1 March 07, 2011 5:11 pm

I find all the hardguys here quite hilarious, of course this is a red card !

What do you want, a snapped spine ? The ruling seems perfectly fair to me. Compare the dangerousity of this tackle, even though he didn't mean harm, to the non-dangerousity of Julien Dupuy's contact with Ferris's face that got him a 23 weeks suspension, you can't call the former too strict...

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 5:28 pm

Its mostly Fairbank's fault since Sidey just wanted to pick him up with no more harm involved but Fairbanks completed the tackle by making Ndungane's head enter in contact with the ground. I'd say the suspension should be for Fairbanks.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 5:32 pm

What I find hilarious is that if you don't agree with the current rulings on tackles and the interpretation of law that somehow you think you're a hardman.

Why can't people have opinions without being subject to ad homs?

Most people against the decision are simply fans who see the game being changed and don't like it. And often with good reason. Look how crap Rugby has gotten in the last 5 years.

It's not that people think they're tough, it's that most of you are candy-floss soft.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 5:35 pm

Wow... A hospitalisation due to a spear tackle.... Yes whilst we see players in hospital for scrumming etc it is part of the game, it is within the laws. Spear tackling however is not. It's not suprising, it was bound to happen...yet it's funny, I'm sure people will still use the whole ''they aren't that dangerous!'' blah blah blah....

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Sam March 07, 2011 5:40 pm

"these are the sort of things that ruin games''

Yeh, and putting a player in hospital can ruin his time too...especially if it's a career ending injury...

''a red card 17 minutes into the game is pretty steep''

So because it was early in the game it should go unpunished? The whole point is that it punishes the team for their players indiscipline...otherwise the referee would give the offending player a little tickle and say 'no! Baaad rugby player'

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 5:42 pm

nah the irish commentators are the worse listen to some of the shit they talk about on 'the breakdown' on setanta its really pathetic

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rehanbb March 07, 2011 5:55 pm

haha
it was harsh or it ruined the game?
so let me introduce a novel concept
Don't break the laws
You go onto the pitch and you know if you do that to a player you will get sent off so why blame the ref for your actions?

" The player that got speared was at fault for running too high into contact."

Are you mildly retarded? So if you get shot in downtown detroit (or wherever) it's not the thugs fault it's yours for being there?

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rehanbb March 07, 2011 6:01 pm

haha
it was harsh or it ruined the game?
so let me introduce a novel concept
Don't break the laws
You go onto the pitch and you know if you do that to a player you will get sent off so why blame the ref for your actions?

" The player that got speared was at fault for running too high into contact."

Are you mildly retarded? So if you get shot in downtown detroit (or wherever) it's not the thugs fault it's yours for being there?

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Juggernauter March 07, 2011 6:51 pm

Dangerous tackle... Fairbanks just landed him imo. 2 weeks should be enough.

And that's solid by the referee. "It's not my issue"... That's right lads.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 7:17 pm

This was the proper call by the referee. Fairbanks' actions did have an effect, and this should have been caught by the citing commissioner after the match. However, watch Sidey's elbows - straight up. That tackle is not going to result in anything but dangerous and the ball carrier being brought down on his head/neck. #5 should also have received something after the match as well.

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Scotsdale March 07, 2011 7:23 pm

The referees do have strict and implicit instructions to harshly penalise this type of tackle, so blaming them isn't really fair. The decisions are made much higher up and although sh*t does downwards, in this situation you can't blame them for doing what they've been instructed to do.

I also thought the tackle didn't look tooooo bad, but we've far less dangerous tackles get a similar suspension, and this one ended in injury, so I think that's about it really. The only question is as some of you have said, how did fairbanks and hargreaves get away with what they did. A part of me thinks the ref sympathised with hargreaves though, and in some ways I like that. A bit of old school play mixed in with the new rulings.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 7:28 pm

Definetely agree with the general consensus here, the second player to join the tackle was what turned it into a spear and a one match ban probably would have been a better call. The follow up players who hit that ruck once the whistle had gone however should have been binned and possibly cited. Truly unecessary and for me hitting a ruck after the whistles gone and especially hitting a player on the floor like they did is as bad as a spear

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rehanbb March 07, 2011 8:03 pm

haha
it was harsh or it ruined the game?
so let me introduce a novel concept
Don't break the laws
You go onto the pitch and you know if you do that to a player you will get sent off so why blame the ref for your actions?

" The player that got speared was at fault for running too high into contact."

Are you mildly retarded? So if you get shot in downtown detroit (or wherever) it's not the thugs fault it's yours for being there?

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 8:24 pm

I agree with what someone said earlier that the referee made the right decision based on what he had seen. It was a dangerous tackle, but it was Fairbanks who made it dangerous though it was Sidey who lifted him in the first place (which was perfectly fine until Fairbanks got involved) so unfortunately it is him who got punished. He looked like he just wanted to pick him up and drive him back which would of been a great hit. Citing commissioner should of punished the number 5 and possibly Fairbanks.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 9:08 pm

Without fail. Any vid to do with citings and SA supporters come in with there "If a South African made such a tackle, he would get 8 weeks at least. Shocking."

You lot whinge more than the English.

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kingy March 07, 2011 9:41 pm

Textbook wrap by Force 22. Force 12 made it worse. I know how it feels to give one of these and be on the end of one so I feel for both Sidey and Ndungane.

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Nicko March 07, 2011 9:50 pm

@ Chris's dad, you sure they weren't referring to the Aussie as the criminal?

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Gavin March 07, 2011 10:00 pm

The usual twats are here who don't give a shit about player safety and who have not actually played the game and been on the wrong end of a spear...typical keyboard warriors. Pathetic.

Advice for keyboard warriors before they start bitching:

1. Try being landed on your head or upper body in an uncontrolled way and see if you avoid serious injury.

2. Learn the current rules - not the rules from 2010, or 1985, or 1910.

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Jono March 07, 2011 10:01 pm

Not that bad, but he got tipped probably a bit too far.
Definatly not the worst I've seen, but yeah he got tipped a bit too far.

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Anonymous March 07, 2011 10:05 pm

The usual twats are here who don't give a shit about player safety and who have not actually played the game and been on the wrong end of a spear...typical keyboard warriors. Pathetic.

...

so you support the removal of scrums from the game?

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Gavin March 07, 2011 10:13 pm

Scrums are legal (as well as a crucial element of making rugby what it is). Everybody who is involved in a scrum is a volunteer when they run onto the pitch.

Spear tackles are illegal. You have no reason to expect a fellow player to drop or drive your upper body or head into the ground when you run onto the pitch.

I hope that clarifies the position for you.

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RD March 07, 2011 10:29 pm

Please keep in mind that we need to maintain a decent level of mature, adult discussion on here. Anything less will be removed without further warning, as it's not welcome or appreciated.

It is possible to discuss laws of the game and controversial incidents without insulting one another, the players, the teams, and the countries involved.

Thanks.

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Gavin March 07, 2011 10:34 pm

RD - Perhaps we could move this forum to some sort of registration basis? There may be fewer comments, but they will be of higher quality, worth reading, and less of the childish abuse that we see here that totally flies in the face of what rugby culture is supposed to stand for?

I'll never understand why the low I.Q., small-minded posters don't find their natural home on a soccer forum somewhere.

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RD March 07, 2011 10:44 pm

Gavin, there is a forum, feel free to register at http://forum.rugbydump.com :)

Soon there will be a new version of the site that will include what you say though, better moderated comments. It's almost done, but the main thing halting progress is time (to work on it) and future bandwidth costs, which will go through the roof. Hopefully we'll come up with something that works though, as it will be a huge improvement for those who want to take part in decent discussions.

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Gavin March 07, 2011 10:46 pm

Thanks RD - yours is the only site I know that posts these types of topical videos and I trust that those who enjoy your new site will spread the word to other rugby fans and the site will enjoy the popularity that it deserves.

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 12:06 am

@ Gavin and the rest of you moaning about spear tackles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD7IXt0JK24&feature=fvwrel

"Waaah waaah never played the game, never been dropped on their head"

Trust me after watching this video you'll see that rugby players have it easy compared czw.

p.s i know the vids not rugby related but can be appreciated anyway

View Video

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Jono March 08, 2011 1:12 am

Gavin,
I've played before, and I agree with the player safety point you make.
However I also agree that sometimes refs go too far with the spear thing, much too far.
This wasn't one of those occaisons, he got tipped too far here and the player deserved the card.
But in the past there have been occaisons which have unsihed players for what amounted to simply well executed tackles.

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 2:58 am

Wow I'm impressed that we actually went about 2 weeks without the fuck heads trolling the comment section... But as usual name trolls, general Berks and lot of pricks with no lives and no friends are back in masses!

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Chris March 08, 2011 5:39 am

While this tackle IS a red card, the two players contributed to the tackle and it seems unfair to suspend one for 3 weeks when it was most likely the contribution of the 2nd player that made the tackle illegal.

I am a ref (albeit in Canada, a virtual rugby backwater), and while I would have given the red I would have recommended leniency to the discipline panel.

ALSO, i would have yellow-carded (minimum) the white 5 who game in late... clear retaliation, and there is no place for that either. Yellow card at a minimum, bordering on red if I think there is intent to injure.

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gary March 08, 2011 5:50 am

A few things, didnt you guys know that rugby has outlawed toughness these days?

also, things like i prefer a different view on things. I dont think a red was necessary, i would prefer to see both teams keep the full compliment of players, and the incident be dealt with more harshly by the match review committee


I just cant stand seeing 20 thousand people pay their hard earned to go to a rugby game and the referee ruins the spectacle less than 20 mins in. In 20 years, rugby will fade into oblivion as boxing has done.

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 8:36 am

Here's a top tip for people looking to avoid being sent off for spear tackling.

When you tackle low DON'T LIFT THE PLAYER UP YOU IDIOTS, just drive straight or pull downwards and they'll fall over on their own.

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 9:43 am

Hahahahahhaha,

Did someone really just post a link to wrestling videos? Oh my word.

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 9:49 am

hopefully Sharks No. 5 gets cited and a 3 week ban for that cheapshot.

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(u-p)rick March 08, 2011 10:01 am

I don't think you guys quite get the laws...

Firstly the laws are their for the referees to abide by. Now by letter of the law this is a spear tackle... Now in order for the referee to abide by the laws he must issue a red card to the offending player... (consider that a bunch of police formerly charging a suspect for a crime)

Now that's not the end of the story. This is where citing comes in, if you read the post it will say he got 3 weeks, it also states THIS IS THE MINIMUM..so whatever happens the guy will get 3 weeks.

Now it affects the game 14 vs 15 however, if he was not carded, yet received a 4 week suspension, and his team won, then all the oppo managers coaches fans etc would be screaming injustice...all for the sake of 'not ruining the game'

This isn't primarily an entertainment service....do you go play rugby on Saturday to entertain a crowd? Or do you go there to play for yourself and your team? Yes ofcourse if it was hideously boring no one would go and these guys would not be paid, so that's here entertaining comes in, but I doubt the coach gives them all a team talk then as they are about to leave the dressing calls after them 'oh boys, make it entertaining!'

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Anonymous March 08, 2011 10:47 am

The Aussie commentators are my favourite. Technically asstute, always compliamenting positive play on both sides and giving a propper sledging to those that make a hash of it. Brilliant!!!

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edbok March 08, 2011 11:12 am

The keyboard warriors never miss.

Anyone still involved in the game will tell you that the red card for a spear tackle is one of the least contentious issues out there. Where there is debate is around the difference between a tip tackle and a spear - last year the tip-tackle citings got totally out of control - and the proper sanction for the former, but that's it.

I'm with a lot of the commenters who reckon Fairbanks was more culpable here. Hard to say for sure, but the tackle might have been able to be completed legally had the second player not gotten involved. Hargreaves could have gotten in trouble too, but for whatever reason the suits seem a little less quick to punish that sort of dangerous play (cf Dylan Hartley). What would have been patently unjust would have been to see Hargreaves cop a larger punishment than the guilty spear tacklers whose offence is what triggered the response.

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Dalma March 08, 2011 1:54 pm

"If a South African made such a tackle, he would get 8 weeks at least. Shocking."

Haha. And if a South African put his fingers in a player's eyes, he would get at least... 4 weeks. So rude.

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HoopsvSolids March 08, 2011 2:03 pm

Okay what the is the difference between a tip tackle, a dump tackle, and a spear tackle?

To all the posters saying it's wrong because it's "illegal". Change the laws! They do so every year.

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Krang March 08, 2011 3:18 pm

@Chris
Yes, there was more than one player involved in the tackle, but you have to bear in mind that only one of them hoisted the player such that he was heading head/neck first into the ground. That was Sidey and he has to take responsibility for that.

@ Sam
Spot on comment. That is exactly what I was going to say, but you said it excellently.

@(u-p)rick
Great comment. very insightful.


I will add that it is for the good of rugby for more and more people to start playing, not just for more people to watch it.
To this end, we need to have a system in place that will protect those who play from serious long term injuries. We need to stop players being reckless in the tackle. Players no longer can do old school 'legal' tackles, but seriously injure others and get away with it. this is a good thing.
when stepping onto the pitch, you have a responsibility to your fellow players not to f**k them up beyond recognition.

by all means, hit players hard, but do so in a way that will not stop them playing again next week.

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Ian M March 08, 2011 3:40 pm

Yellow would have been the right call, at the most, for Sidey and white #5.

Why? We can't penalise everything in rugby that's dangerous, otherwise we'd finish every match at 10 a side. If Fairbanks hadn't been there (not that he did anything illegal), that would have been a perfectly normal dump tackle.

As a similar example, what if player #1 jumps to take a high ball. Player #2, on the opposing team, tries to stop and would do so, but player #3 (on either team, it doesn't really matter) is too close behind him, doesn't anticipate him stopping, and accidentally pushes #2 into #1. Result: contact with the jumping player that has the potential to be very nasty. But who do you penalise? #2 for being pushed? #3 for bumping into a player on the ground? Ideally you're a sensible ref, you realise shit happens, and stop for a scrum whilst you check #1 is OK. And that's what should have happened here.

I can understand the ref making this call without the benefit of slo-mo and different camera angles, but for the citing comission to do so seems ridiculous.

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RememberTheMer March 09, 2011 11:05 am

What make this tackle worse than usual is that he was turned over fast. F = M x A.

PS to you guys who get all misty eyed about the tough old days and then call out the number 5 as being worse.
Did you not notice that the "innocent" Force player who got shouldered was Sidey the spear tackler? There was a time when if you pulled something like a spear tackle you would EXPECT to cop something back. If not immediately then at the next ruck.

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Anonymous March 09, 2011 4:02 pm

@remember the mer

Siiiigh, I'm still sure I have a few studs embedded in my arse cheek from 'the old days' after pulling off something not so legal on an opposition player...

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Anonymous March 10, 2011 8:18 am

Red card yes. Suspension absolutely not. I don't mean to be a smartass but the tackle didn't really look THAT bad to me? Sure he tipped him beyond the point of control but there was no 'spear' motion and Ndungane landed on his side. If it hadn't of been for Fairbanks pulling down on his upper body I reckon he would have landed on his head and come down in a more dangerous position. Again - it doesn't look that bad, I think the whole stretcher was a bit dramatic too....stupid tackle though given the situation of the game.

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RememberTheMer March 10, 2011 8:40 am

@Anonymous said...

You and many other old warriors I am sure :)

The best version I remember of payback was an Ireland AB's game where Clohessy smashed Fitzpatrick in the face at a scrum. Fitz just gave him a big smile, handed his front tooth to the physio and packed down for the reset.

Clohessy proceeded to have an absolute 'mare, probably because he was nervously waiting all game for the retaliation - which never actually came.

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Anonymous March 10, 2011 3:25 pm

I have no problem with the initial reading of a red-card offense.

But when the Citing Commisioner breaks it down, the carded player can not be found to have done anything dangerous, reckless, or malicious. The whole reason the tackle went down was because of the second players throwing down of the head/shoulders of the player. If there was fault for a dangersouns tackle here, it was with him.

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