Mike Phillips controversial try sets up Wales win over Ireland

Terrible mistake by both the ref and the touch judge. Ireland should've played to the whistle though.

Terrible mistake by both the ref and the touch judge. Ireland should've played to the whistle though.

2nd

2nd

Nothing the ref could've done differently. He asked the touch judge. He said it's the correct ball. Everyone has their role, the ref has to rely on the support from the whole officiating group.

Nothing the ref could've done differently. He asked the touch judge. He said it's the correct ball. Everyone has their role, the ref has to rely on the support from the whole officiating group.

If you watch the touchjudge, it's a quite easy mistake to make unfortunately. I suppose he didn't expect the players to do something they knew was clearly against the laws..

Ireland still had 30 minutes to win the match though.

Hopefully this does something for new legislation put in place re. TMO powers

If you watch the touchjudge, it's a quite easy mistake to make unfortunately. I suppose he didn't expect the players to do something they knew was clearly against the laws..

Ireland still had 30 minutes to win the match though.

Hopefully this does something for new legislation put in place re. TMO powers

Just a thought. Players are cited for foul play. But as the previous comment suggest. Wales had to know that it is clearly against the law. Shouldn't that also be a citable offence? Clearly against the spirit of the game...

Just a thought. Players are cited for foul play. But as the previous comment suggest. Wales had to know that it is clearly against the law. Shouldn't that also be a citable offence? Clearly against the spirit of the game...

Although there was a chance Kaplan may have noticed the switch, anonymous is right in saying it's the touch judges job (and only job once the ball has touched the ground) to keep an eye on the ball regarding a quick throw.

One thing that Irish people may find hugely galling is when Gatland said after the match "We deserved a bit of luck".
I'm fairly sure that was one piece of luck no team deserves.

Although there was a chance Kaplan may have noticed the switch, anonymous is right in saying it's the touch judges job (and only job once the ball has touched the ground) to keep an eye on the ball regarding a quick throw.

One thing that Irish people may find hugely galling is when Gatland said after the match "We deserved a bit of luck".
I'm fairly sure that was one piece of luck no team deserves.

As many people in other sports have phrased it
"never leave it in the hands of the judges"
I am not for greater involvement of the television match official, like a previous comment made
"Nothing the ref could've done differently. He asked the touch judge. He said it's the correct ball. Everyone has their role, the ref has to rely on the support from the whole officiating group." I completely agree.
I think the refs have to enforce there ruling as equally as possible, thats all, as long as they do it to both teams.
But it is gut wrenching when this happens, so the passion is not completely random. But I hate to say it, sometimes you should not allow yourself or the team to get in such a position.
The refs are not going to get it right every time, and as players they are pushing their will as far as they can interms of tolerance by the referee...
It may suck or be shocking, but this will happen occasionally with a quick desperate game, like rugby..

As many people in other sports have phrased it
"never leave it in the hands of the judges"
I am not for greater involvement of the television match official, like a previous comment made
"Nothing the ref could've done differently. He asked the touch judge. He said it's the correct ball. Everyone has their role, the ref has to rely on the support from the whole officiating group." I completely agree.
I think the refs have to enforce there ruling as equally as possible, thats all, as long as they do it to both teams.
But it is gut wrenching when this happens, so the passion is not completely random. But I hate to say it, sometimes you should not allow yourself or the team to get in such a position.
The refs are not going to get it right every time, and as players they are pushing their will as far as they can interms of tolerance by the referee...
It may suck or be shocking, but this will happen occasionally with a quick desperate game, like rugby..

Well, shit. I think I finally realize just how pissed AB fans must've been during the WC match against France.

Having said that, I don't think the laws need to be changed. But there does need to be some accountability for this....

As or Ireland having time enough to win the game back, yeah, of course they did. But why not just award Wales 7 points at the start of the match and say, "Well, you boys have 80 minutes to beat them, so it's your fault if you don't."

PS - Ireland played horribly. Their forwards are liabilities and aren't good enough players to justify the amount of penalties they give away.

O'Brien made one really great break but infringed god knows how many times; O'Callaghan was the same story with his hands in the ruck and entering from anywhere but the gate; POC was seemingly absent from the match, which is fine because at least he wasn't giving away penalties (though I did notice he tried to come forward when the ref asked to speak with Healy and BOD - you're not captain, Paul!); Heaslip made little impact. The backs seem to be the only ones there to play, and yet Kidney unnecessarily takes ROG off and sticks in Sexton.

That said, it wasn't Ireland alone who were awful at the breakdown. Wales were often worse, and on top of that, Kaplan seemed to care less. I guess that it's Ireland's fault if they've earned the reputation of poor breakdown play and therefore the scrutiny of the referee, but Wales were lucky as hell not to give away more penalties that Ireland did.

Well, shit. I think I finally realize just how pissed AB fans must've been during the WC match against France.

Having said that, I don't think the laws need to be changed. But there does need to be some accountability for this....

As or Ireland having time enough to win the game back, yeah, of course they did. But why not just award Wales 7 points at the start of the match and say, "Well, you boys have 80 minutes to beat them, so it's your fault if you don't."

PS - Ireland played horribly. Their forwards are liabilities and aren't good enough players to justify the amount of penalties they give away.

O'Brien made one really great break but infringed god knows how many times; O'Callaghan was the same story with his hands in the ruck and entering from anywhere but the gate; POC was seemingly absent from the match, which is fine because at least he wasn't giving away penalties (though I did notice he tried to come forward when the ref asked to speak with Healy and BOD - you're not captain, Paul!); Heaslip made little impact. The backs seem to be the only ones there to play, and yet Kidney unnecessarily takes ROG off and sticks in Sexton.

That said, it wasn't Ireland alone who were awful at the breakdown. Wales were often worse, and on top of that, Kaplan seemed to care less. I guess that it's Ireland's fault if they've earned the reputation of poor breakdown play and therefore the scrutiny of the referee, but Wales were lucky as hell not to give away more penalties that Ireland did.

I tend agree with brookster. One of the reasons an NFL match has become a 60-minute game that takes 3 hours to play is due to the pin-point accuracy demanded by fans with relation to the calls made by officials. I hope rugby never adopts "challenge flags", mandatory instant-replay, or the soccer-like attitude of shouting at the referee.

But in order to keep it as simple and as flowing of a game that it is, sometimes shit happens that breaks your heart. It just happened to be Ireland who "took one for the team" yesterday.

I tend agree with brookster. One of the reasons an NFL match has become a 60-minute game that takes 3 hours to play is due to the pin-point accuracy demanded by fans with relation to the calls made by officials. I hope rugby never adopts "challenge flags", mandatory instant-replay, or the soccer-like attitude of shouting at the referee.

But in order to keep it as simple and as flowing of a game that it is, sometimes shit happens that breaks your heart. It just happened to be Ireland who "took one for the team" yesterday.

Unforgivable on Allan's part. If nothing else, he watches the ballboy hand Rees a ball. "A quick throw in is not allowed if another person has touched the ball".

And he did see it, you can see him acknowledge Rees and step back to give him space to throw.

Unforgivable on Allan's part. If nothing else, he watches the ballboy hand Rees a ball. "A quick throw in is not allowed if another person has touched the ball".

And he did see it, you can see him acknowledge Rees and step back to give him space to throw.

Ireland, the team that never has ANY decisions go in its own favour?

Not even in the first half of this very game? (no forward pass that rolled 2 metres along the ground?)

Suck it up, there are multiple refereeing mistakes in EVERY game.

Ireland, the team that never has ANY decisions go in its own favour?

Not even in the first half of this very game? (no forward pass that rolled 2 metres along the ground?)

Suck it up, there are multiple refereeing mistakes in EVERY game.

Can people not realise that by increasing TMO powers it just creats more confusion/problems/hypocrisy/etc. Why, for example, is noone, particularly the Irish, asking for the first try to be disallowed yesterday for a knock on earlier in the play. If it had been reviewed and spotted that would not have been a try.

Also, what if you get a scrum in a winning position from a ref error and then score a try on the next play. Wasn't the incorrect decision in the play before just as significant as anything else? Where do you draw the line?

Can people not realise that by increasing TMO powers it just creats more confusion/problems/hypocrisy/etc. Why, for example, is noone, particularly the Irish, asking for the first try to be disallowed yesterday for a knock on earlier in the play. If it had been reviewed and spotted that would not have been a try.

Also, what if you get a scrum in a winning position from a ref error and then score a try on the next play. Wasn't the incorrect decision in the play before just as significant as anything else? Where do you draw the line?

Blame the ball boy its his fault he is working for the Welsh side omg?

Haha Ireland.

Blame the ball boy its his fault he is working for the Welsh side omg?

Haha Ireland.

What a huge refereeing mistake, to allow Ireland that forward pass in the first half, totally changed the game for me.

Luckily fate rectified itself in the second half and allowed Phillips' try.

What a huge refereeing mistake, to allow Ireland that forward pass in the first half, totally changed the game for me.

Luckily fate rectified itself in the second half and allowed Phillips' try.

Robbery

Robbery

I've just had my drive done by some Irish guys, the dirty cheating robbing bastards ripped me off!!

Where was the TMO?

I've just had my drive done by some Irish guys, the dirty cheating robbing bastards ripped me off!!

Where was the TMO?

Why are the Irish so upset?

I've been buying Lucky Charms cereal for years and they've never brought me any luck, but I don't complain.

Why are the Irish so upset?

I've been buying Lucky Charms cereal for years and they've never brought me any luck, but I don't complain.

I regret that we got that try, it never should of been allowed But as someone said, the referee couldn't of done any more as it was the touch judges fault.

All that being said, there was some TERRIBLE decisions on both sides, alot of iffy calls that went irelands way too. And at many points in the game you kind of felt it was irelands game to lose, the silly penalties and the forward passes (Well the ones that they were actually penalised for!)

Such a shame as wales ireland is normally a cracking game.

I regret that we got that try, it never should of been allowed But as someone said, the referee couldn't of done any more as it was the touch judges fault.

All that being said, there was some TERRIBLE decisions on both sides, alot of iffy calls that went irelands way too. And at many points in the game you kind of felt it was irelands game to lose, the silly penalties and the forward passes (Well the ones that they were actually penalised for!)

Such a shame as wales ireland is normally a cracking game.

First Anon this has nothing to do with playing to the whistle. No matter what happened to the kicked ball the new one couldn't have been played because the ball boy was touching it. Kaplan and Allan were both looking in Rees' direction but at what god knows.. I think Kaplan bottled disallowing the try and turned to someone who unfortunately wasn't clued up on the finer rules (sarcasm). Also the was Phillips goes over is odd, he looks straight back down the touchline kind of hesitates a celebration.. hmmm suspect. No need for more TMO it was a 1/10000 mistake.

First Anon this has nothing to do with playing to the whistle. No matter what happened to the kicked ball the new one couldn't have been played because the ball boy was touching it. Kaplan and Allan were both looking in Rees' direction but at what god knows.. I think Kaplan bottled disallowing the try and turned to someone who unfortunately wasn't clued up on the finer rules (sarcasm). Also the was Phillips goes over is odd, he looks straight back down the touchline kind of hesitates a celebration.. hmmm suspect. No need for more TMO it was a 1/10000 mistake.

*the way phillips

*the way phillips

GF, where is your in depth review of O'Gara's quick tap vs South Africa?

GF, where is your in depth review of O'Gara's quick tap vs South Africa?

Karma!

Remember back to the world cup, Ireland; Georgia were unfairly denied and they didn't have 30 minutes to sort it out. So suck it up, deal with it. It happens to everyone, but the media only cares when it's a 'big' nation like Ireland or England.
Wouldn't hear anything of it if it were Scotland or Wales who had this try scored against them. About time some decisions went against you.

Anyone else think that a bronze statue of the ballboy should be built in Cardiff?

Karma!

Remember back to the world cup, Ireland; Georgia were unfairly denied and they didn't have 30 minutes to sort it out. So suck it up, deal with it. It happens to everyone, but the media only cares when it's a 'big' nation like Ireland or England.
Wouldn't hear anything of it if it were Scotland or Wales who had this try scored against them. About time some decisions went against you.

Anyone else think that a bronze statue of the ballboy should be built in Cardiff?

"It happens to everyone, but the media only cares when it's a 'big' nation like Ireland or England.
Wouldn't hear anything of it if it were Scotland or Wales who had this try scored against them. About time some decisions went against you. "

What the hell are you going on about? Scotland and Wales are just as big a rugby nation as Ireland. And the media would do the same for them. Anyway I think most of the Irish fans have moved on, you don't see any of them crying for a rematch do you.

"It happens to everyone, but the media only cares when it's a 'big' nation like Ireland or England.
Wouldn't hear anything of it if it were Scotland or Wales who had this try scored against them. About time some decisions went against you. "

What the hell are you going on about? Scotland and Wales are just as big a rugby nation as Ireland. And the media would do the same for them. Anyway I think most of the Irish fans have moved on, you don't see any of them crying for a rematch do you.

Does anyone else think that it's possible the lineout was set? The hooker has the ball, there are Irish players in the line, and Kaplan stamps his foot as if to suggest/signal a lineout is formed.
If it's legal to take a lineout like that, then the throw was straight (enough by today's standards?)and nothing wrong has been done. Maybe Kaplan just wanted the game to flow a bit, but realised it had a big impact on the game when the 9 crossed the line?

Does anyone else think that it's possible the lineout was set? The hooker has the ball, there are Irish players in the line, and Kaplan stamps his foot as if to suggest/signal a lineout is formed.
If it's legal to take a lineout like that, then the throw was straight (enough by today's standards?)and nothing wrong has been done. Maybe Kaplan just wanted the game to flow a bit, but realised it had a big impact on the game when the 9 crossed the line?

Why weren't the Irish as upset about O'Gara's deliberate blatant cheating in the past?

Why weren't the Irish as upset about O'Gara's deliberate blatant cheating in the past?

Anyone see that Welsh bird on the left jumping up down in 1:04. Yummy!

Anyone see that Welsh bird on the left jumping up down in 1:04. Yummy!

It's funny, this is then and now... Teams never get upset at their own cheating do they? Retards...

I wanted Ireland to win this game but like someone said they still could have won it.... But to those of you asking why Ireland are complaining? Because it should not have been a try... And I think the fact it was 100% clear it should not have been a try sort of says it all...

I think jonathan Davies summed it up, "ask the man upstairs, 'was that the same ball or not?' no? No try!" less than 30 seconds....

Either that or ask the touch judges to switch on!!!!!

It's funny, this is then and now... Teams never get upset at their own cheating do they? Retards...

I wanted Ireland to win this game but like someone said they still could have won it.... But to those of you asking why Ireland are complaining? Because it should not have been a try... And I think the fact it was 100% clear it should not have been a try sort of says it all...

I think jonathan Davies summed it up, "ask the man upstairs, 'was that the same ball or not?' no? No try!" less than 30 seconds....

Either that or ask the touch judges to switch on!!!!!

from what iv seen both teams didnt play well, however that doesnt excuse wales to break the laws of the game to rob Ireland of a possible win. obviously the official play a huge part in this, i actualy agree with jonathan davies (for a change) it should be 4th official to be on hand if need be for situations such as this one, wouldnt take long

from what iv seen both teams didnt play well, however that doesnt excuse wales to break the laws of the game to rob Ireland of a possible win. obviously the official play a huge part in this, i actualy agree with jonathan davies (for a change) it should be 4th official to be on hand if need be for situations such as this one, wouldnt take long

Phillips' response to the matter is the most disgraceful part of the whole thing. As mentioned, the Irish fans I've seen were pissed but pretty quickly moved on (being more frustrated over how their team has played this year), but to suggest that Wales "was owed" something like this is pretty pathetic.

His justification? "Ireland had one or two high tackles on us as well, but it's tough for the referee to pick everything up."

Really? Also, as mentioned, Wales got away with plenty at the breakdown. I don't think Phillips realizes that their "luck" extended to more than just one part of that game.

On a side-note, the Italy-France match was a better game of rugby anyways. What was with all the ping-pong rugby the Irish and Welsh were playing?

Phillips' response to the matter is the most disgraceful part of the whole thing. As mentioned, the Irish fans I've seen were pissed but pretty quickly moved on (being more frustrated over how their team has played this year), but to suggest that Wales "was owed" something like this is pretty pathetic.

His justification? "Ireland had one or two high tackles on us as well, but it's tough for the referee to pick everything up."

Really? Also, as mentioned, Wales got away with plenty at the breakdown. I don't think Phillips realizes that their "luck" extended to more than just one part of that game.

On a side-note, the Italy-France match was a better game of rugby anyways. What was with all the ping-pong rugby the Irish and Welsh were playing?

It's a bit a shame from rees and phillips to play this moment like that. They know that they are doing something really against the law.

It's a bit a shame from rees and phillips to play this moment like that. They know that they are doing something really against the law.

"Does anyone else think that it's possible the lineout was set? The hooker has the ball, there are Irish players in the line, and Kaplan stamps his foot as if to suggest/signal a lineout is formed.
If it's legal to take a lineout like that, then the throw was straight (enough by today's standards?)and nothing wrong has been done. Maybe Kaplan just wanted the game to flow a bit, but realised it had a big impact on the game when the 9 crossed the line?"

The line out was not set. Forming a line out: 19.8 (a) Minimum. At least two players from each team must form a lineout. Wales had no players except Phillips who ran onto it and there were no Irish players. It was a quick and so the same ball had to have been used.

As for Phillips, he has always been arrogant and confrontational. You wouldn't expect any other reaction from him (both after the try and after the match).

Even by the NH standard, the was a particularly poor game.

"Does anyone else think that it's possible the lineout was set? The hooker has the ball, there are Irish players in the line, and Kaplan stamps his foot as if to suggest/signal a lineout is formed.
If it's legal to take a lineout like that, then the throw was straight (enough by today's standards?)and nothing wrong has been done. Maybe Kaplan just wanted the game to flow a bit, but realised it had a big impact on the game when the 9 crossed the line?"

The line out was not set. Forming a line out: 19.8 (a) Minimum. At least two players from each team must form a lineout. Wales had no players except Phillips who ran onto it and there were no Irish players. It was a quick and so the same ball had to have been used.

As for Phillips, he has always been arrogant and confrontational. You wouldn't expect any other reaction from him (both after the try and after the match).

Even by the NH standard, the was a particularly poor game.

Didn't read the comments so maybe it's been said over and over again but the unbelievable thing about that sort of tries is that you can use the video in rugby!
Let the action finish, check it out and act accordingly. How can't it be THAT simple?
And, since i'm throwing ideas in the wind, use special former front rower refs for scrums.

We have a beautiful game and pretty decent rules, let's just ref them simply and consistently.

Didn't read the comments so maybe it's been said over and over again but the unbelievable thing about that sort of tries is that you can use the video in rugby!
Let the action finish, check it out and act accordingly. How can't it be THAT simple?
And, since i'm throwing ideas in the wind, use special former front rower refs for scrums.

We have a beautiful game and pretty decent rules, let's just ref them simply and consistently.

Ireland were awful, but wales were miles worse. They didnt even look like scoring, with all that talent in their backline. Shocking mistake by the touchjudge, but they happen all the time, fair to say Peter Allan won't make the world cup? and Paddy Wallace also, awful decision from him in the closing minutes. The one Welshman deserving credit is Jonathan Davies, entirely unbiased as per usual and a great pundit. None of the usual rubbish from the likes of Andy Nicol

Ireland were awful, but wales were miles worse. They didnt even look like scoring, with all that talent in their backline. Shocking mistake by the touchjudge, but they happen all the time, fair to say Peter Allan won't make the world cup? and Paddy Wallace also, awful decision from him in the closing minutes. The one Welshman deserving credit is Jonathan Davies, entirely unbiased as per usual and a great pundit. None of the usual rubbish from the likes of Andy Nicol

What a mess of a decision and also one of the most boring games I've seen. If I could I'd have both teams marked down as a loss.

Should it have been a try? Not a achance..

Was it a try? Yes, once it's been given, in reference to that match, it's a try.

It is possible the IRB will look into what can be done in these situations but that's separate to the given result.

Unfortunately, mistakes are made and Ireland got hit by a big one this time.

I don't think it's ever as simple as if it didn't happen Ireland would have won as the mach from start to finish was littered with errors on behalf of the officials and both teams benefited from the mistakes.

Rees was given the match ball (It's not up to him to question whether it's the correct one, thats what the officials are there for) and he was quite right to do what he did. You must play what you're given and trust that the officials will do their jobs.

Ireland have every right to be pissed off about what happened as I am as a Welsh player/fan. I however know the game well enough to understand that decisions will sometimes go your way and sometimes they go against you and as pissed of as you are, once a decision has been made you get back to doing your job.

It's impossible to predict what would have happened if the decision had been different or if the decisions were different when Ireland were given two penalties that should have clearly gone to Wales.

It's a shame that it happened but it has happened and the match is over.

Both teams were really poor, both teams suffered with poor decisions but the match is over.

I know people will complain and they will be right to but players are quite rightly not going to turn down a try that has been award to them.

I don't want to hear players saying...
"Sorry ref, I was offside when I turned over that ball which we just used to score a try."
"You know what, there was an arm under that ball when I was trying to score but you couldn't see it due to there being eight people on top of me."
"My lineout wasn't straight, do you want to give it to the other team instead of us having the seven points? I'd really rather you did."
"I know we just scored but I went in really early in the scrum, do you mind if I just go and sit in the sin bin for ten minutes?"

Anyway, bloody awful match all round and I got no pleasure from any of it.

Having said that, I was on the edge of my seat and jumped up with a shout when Italy beat France. So happy for them, they've worked harder than any other team this year.

They could have beat Wales, they really should have beat Ireland and they played better than both of us.

Well done to all of them, you should be proud of yourselves for what you've achieved this year. The real test will be if it can be sustained over the next couple of years.

What a mess of a decision and also one of the most boring games I've seen. If I could I'd have both teams marked down as a loss.

Should it have been a try? Not a achance..

Was it a try? Yes, once it's been given, in reference to that match, it's a try.

It is possible the IRB will look into what can be done in these situations but that's separate to the given result.

Unfortunately, mistakes are made and Ireland got hit by a big one this time.

I don't think it's ever as simple as if it didn't happen Ireland would have won as the mach from start to finish was littered with errors on behalf of the officials and both teams benefited from the mistakes.

Rees was given the match ball (It's not up to him to question whether it's the correct one, thats what the officials are there for) and he was quite right to do what he did. You must play what you're given and trust that the officials will do their jobs.

Ireland have every right to be pissed off about what happened as I am as a Welsh player/fan. I however know the game well enough to understand that decisions will sometimes go your way and sometimes they go against you and as pissed of as you are, once a decision has been made you get back to doing your job.

It's impossible to predict what would have happened if the decision had been different or if the decisions were different when Ireland were given two penalties that should have clearly gone to Wales.

It's a shame that it happened but it has happened and the match is over.

Both teams were really poor, both teams suffered with poor decisions but the match is over.

I know people will complain and they will be right to but players are quite rightly not going to turn down a try that has been award to them.

I don't want to hear players saying...
"Sorry ref, I was offside when I turned over that ball which we just used to score a try."
"You know what, there was an arm under that ball when I was trying to score but you couldn't see it due to there being eight people on top of me."
"My lineout wasn't straight, do you want to give it to the other team instead of us having the seven points? I'd really rather you did."
"I know we just scored but I went in really early in the scrum, do you mind if I just go and sit in the sin bin for ten minutes?"

Anyway, bloody awful match all round and I got no pleasure from any of it.

Having said that, I was on the edge of my seat and jumped up with a shout when Italy beat France. So happy for them, they've worked harder than any other team this year.

They could have beat Wales, they really should have beat Ireland and they played better than both of us.

Well done to all of them, you should be proud of yourselves for what you've achieved this year. The real test will be if it can be sustained over the next couple of years.

Absolutely sickened by this. For all you idiots complaining that Ireland got away with a forward pass or whatever, it's obviously a completely different situation. Missing a forward pass and simply gifting a team a try because you don't know the rules of rugby are completely different. And do you really think Wales have never gotten away with a forward pass? Practically every Shane Williams offload is forward and it's barely ever spotted.

And for people who are saying that there's no point in complaining because it's over; what do you expect? Should we congratulate that idiot Peter Allen and be happy with the fact that we were robbed?

Absolutely sickened by this. For all you idiots complaining that Ireland got away with a forward pass or whatever, it's obviously a completely different situation. Missing a forward pass and simply gifting a team a try because you don't know the rules of rugby are completely different. And do you really think Wales have never gotten away with a forward pass? Practically every Shane Williams offload is forward and it's barely ever spotted.

And for people who are saying that there's no point in complaining because it's over; what do you expect? Should we congratulate that idiot Peter Allen and be happy with the fact that we were robbed?

rubbish game, Ireland are completely useless. so depressing.

rubbish game, Ireland are completely useless. so depressing.

I was looking forward to watching these 2 teams play. Apparently, they are both running teams.... Next week I'll stick to super15. This was shite.
I reckon any team in the super 15 would beat this rubbish.

I was looking forward to watching these 2 teams play. Apparently, they are both running teams.... Next week I'll stick to super15. This was shite.
I reckon any team in the super 15 would beat this rubbish.

Anonymous above.

Haha! people like you make me laugh. I can even picture what you look like.

Anonymous above.

Haha! people like you make me laugh. I can even picture what you look like.

Yes it was a bad call by the referees, but the ref done all the he could "Legally do. Although he could of got the TMO, laws don't allow it, he done what he thought was the best call and asked the touch judge who confirmed it.. he wasn't exactly going to just disgard his officials call.. he had about 30 seconds at most to figure out what happened and yes it was a mistake but these things happen in rugby. Like someone mentioned, if they start using the tmo for those sort of calls, it will just carry out onto other calls..

Yes it was a bad call by the referees, but the ref done all the he could "Legally do. Although he could of got the TMO, laws don't allow it, he done what he thought was the best call and asked the touch judge who confirmed it.. he wasn't exactly going to just disgard his officials call.. he had about 30 seconds at most to figure out what happened and yes it was a mistake but these things happen in rugby. Like someone mentioned, if they start using the tmo for those sort of calls, it will just carry out onto other calls..

Wales vs Ireland isn't what it used to be.

Not nice to see the Irish crowding and yelling at the ref, and not nice to see the Welsh win by cheating.

Personally I don't like either team, I think they get away with murder all the time.

Wish referees would get their act together though. If in doubt, go upstairs.

Wales vs Ireland isn't what it used to be.

Not nice to see the Irish crowding and yelling at the ref, and not nice to see the Welsh win by cheating.

Personally I don't like either team, I think they get away with murder all the time.

Wish referees would get their act together though. If in doubt, go upstairs.

yeah but if u also look close at rees's foot its also in play when he threw it in is well. all i can say is that peter allen and that saffer jackass better stay away from the emerald isle with decisions like that. but in fairness there isint much kaplin could do but i still think he is a crap ref.

yeah but if u also look close at rees's foot its also in play when he threw it in is well. all i can say is that peter allen and that saffer jackass better stay away from the emerald isle with decisions like that. but in fairness there isint much kaplin could do but i still think he is a crap ref.

Even though it was a bad decision made by the tough judge, we (Ireland) were terrible yet again. Why oh why do keep kicking the ball away, at 2 or 3 times we were in Wales' 22 and ROG kicked it away. Keep the ball in the hands even if we are in our half, kick only when we're under pressure.

That said I thought it was a very poor match, actually I think the whole 6 nations has been very poor. Bring on the Tri Nations in the summer a bit of quality rugby

Even though it was a bad decision made by the tough judge, we (Ireland) were terrible yet again. Why oh why do keep kicking the ball away, at 2 or 3 times we were in Wales' 22 and ROG kicked it away. Keep the ball in the hands even if we are in our half, kick only when we're under pressure.

That said I thought it was a very poor match, actually I think the whole 6 nations has been very poor. Bring on the Tri Nations in the summer a bit of quality rugby

As on old-fashioned fart who cannot abide gamesmanship, which seems to be the modern usurper of sportsmanship, I am ashamed that my Welsh team cheated so blatantly. What galls me more though is the "we were lucky" spin. I'd rather lose than win by cheating.

But where does one draw the line? Hands in the ruck are just as illegal as what happened yesterday, but it seems to be more "acceptable" to some. I'm sorry, but the rules are the rules, and crossing the line by an inch is as bad as crossing by a mile. Cheating is cheating. If Ireland have cheated (which they have a reputation for), then they should shut the hell up about this case.

That said, if we wanted to go down the TMO line, then we'd lose the spirit of the game, which, with so much happening on the field, is always open to abuse and subjective assessment (by the ref). I actually like the fact that the ref can use personal judgement (for example when issuing yellow cards).

But I'm still ashamed of our win yesterday.

As on old-fashioned fart who cannot abide gamesmanship, which seems to be the modern usurper of sportsmanship, I am ashamed that my Welsh team cheated so blatantly. What galls me more though is the "we were lucky" spin. I'd rather lose than win by cheating.

But where does one draw the line? Hands in the ruck are just as illegal as what happened yesterday, but it seems to be more "acceptable" to some. I'm sorry, but the rules are the rules, and crossing the line by an inch is as bad as crossing by a mile. Cheating is cheating. If Ireland have cheated (which they have a reputation for), then they should shut the hell up about this case.

That said, if we wanted to go down the TMO line, then we'd lose the spirit of the game, which, with so much happening on the field, is always open to abuse and subjective assessment (by the ref). I actually like the fact that the ref can use personal judgement (for example when issuing yellow cards).

But I'm still ashamed of our win yesterday.

All these comments about Wales breaching 'the spirit of the game' seem a little ironic to me. It is an accepted fact that pushing the rules and the referee to the limit and getting away with what you can are all parts of the game. The All Blacks bend the rules and play the ref better than anyone and they are the best team in the world. Mccaw is the very best of the lot and we give him world player of the year. We can all moan but the best players in the world have always done this; Neil Back against Munster in the Heineken Cup final anyone? Wales have often played attractive rugby but never been ruthless enough to win the big games; scrappy, dig your heels in, the ends justify the means style wins like this are a sure sign that Wales are learning to win. Some of you might find that abhorrent, but I don't apologise for it.

All these comments about Wales breaching 'the spirit of the game' seem a little ironic to me. It is an accepted fact that pushing the rules and the referee to the limit and getting away with what you can are all parts of the game. The All Blacks bend the rules and play the ref better than anyone and they are the best team in the world. Mccaw is the very best of the lot and we give him world player of the year. We can all moan but the best players in the world have always done this; Neil Back against Munster in the Heineken Cup final anyone? Wales have often played attractive rugby but never been ruthless enough to win the big games; scrappy, dig your heels in, the ends justify the means style wins like this are a sure sign that Wales are learning to win. Some of you might find that abhorrent, but I don't apologise for it.

Wales went against the spirit of the game.


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PLEAAAAAASE. Every team pushes the limits of the law and would take a dodgy try, whether it be from something like this, or say a forward pass.

Bad decision i know, but put the violin away.

Wales went against the spirit of the game.


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PLEAAAAAASE. Every team pushes the limits of the law and would take a dodgy try, whether it be from something like this, or say a forward pass.

Bad decision i know, but put the violin away.

Lads, we didnt win, end of. We had plenty of chances and we didnt take them. A similar incident with rog against SA a few years back and we werent whinging then about rules. We should take it on the chin and move on ffs.

Best of luck to Wales against the french. Hope we can bounce back v england but dosent look likely :( Kidney isnt picking our form team Cullen, Cronin, McCloughlin, McFadden, Trimble, Boss, Carr, Duffy should be given a chance at least!

Congrats to Italy too, they should have 3 wins this vear really.

Roll on next week!

Tom (Eire)

Lads, we didnt win, end of. We had plenty of chances and we didnt take them. A similar incident with rog against SA a few years back and we werent whinging then about rules. We should take it on the chin and move on ffs.

Best of luck to Wales against the french. Hope we can bounce back v england but dosent look likely :( Kidney isnt picking our form team Cullen, Cronin, McCloughlin, McFadden, Trimble, Boss, Carr, Duffy should be given a chance at least!

Congrats to Italy too, they should have 3 wins this vear really.

Roll on next week!

Tom (Eire)

The only thing I'll say is to all the get on with it crew and all the people out there laughing...we will be back for revenge!!The best Irish side is one that has been scorned..BRING ON ENGLAND!!!

The only thing I'll say is to all the get on with it crew and all the people out there laughing...we will be back for revenge!!The best Irish side is one that has been scorned..BRING ON ENGLAND!!!

didnt read all the comments
but I THINK QUICK LINEOUTS SHOULD ALWAYS BE POSSIBLE TO ALLOW A MORE FLUID GAME

didnt read all the comments
but I THINK QUICK LINEOUTS SHOULD ALWAYS BE POSSIBLE TO ALLOW A MORE FLUID GAME

Guys, i am an irish fan (not saying that means much in this day an age) I'd just like to say amongst myself and my rugby club pals, we are over the decision in the essence that it 'cost' us the game.

(I use that term loosely as whatever happened Wales could have ended up scoring numerous penalties, or legitimate tries)

The fact is it does raise the question on going to the TMO about this stuff...

I saw in todays game england vs scotland, that it happened years ago against france. So part of me thinks 'well it has happened before' but the other part thinks, its happened once before, donkeys years ago.. so is it worth the effort?

I think in the context of this game, Ireland...my home team..put it this way, i've accepted the fact this tournament is down the pan, long before the wales game...so Im not too cut up about it. However the big question you ALL need to ask yourselves is:

'what if this was RWC final game with your team?'

I do not want to see the ref asking the guy upstairs for every bloody decision because he gets every angle...but it does bring about the question of a BIG BIG game...

I see a lot of SH fans having a dig at us Irish boys saying 'cry over this cry over that' trust me, you don't even need to try against Ireland, we'll hand you the points... but it raises a BIG talking point. What if it was one of your boys teams, say the saffas or NZ...I mean I'd only hope that in light of this f*ck up by the touch judge that it will be a very clear cut area (as in todays game) but if its not and we can all sit here in our homes watching it on a screen and seeing replay after replay that it was NOT supposed to be a try, do we want it to be an ability for the refs to have or not?

On note of todays game, how many other of you folk thought 'oh why oh why does that prick haskell have to be man of the match' The guy just loves himself..

Guys, i am an irish fan (not saying that means much in this day an age) I'd just like to say amongst myself and my rugby club pals, we are over the decision in the essence that it 'cost' us the game.

(I use that term loosely as whatever happened Wales could have ended up scoring numerous penalties, or legitimate tries)

The fact is it does raise the question on going to the TMO about this stuff...

I saw in todays game england vs scotland, that it happened years ago against france. So part of me thinks 'well it has happened before' but the other part thinks, its happened once before, donkeys years ago.. so is it worth the effort?

I think in the context of this game, Ireland...my home team..put it this way, i've accepted the fact this tournament is down the pan, long before the wales game...so Im not too cut up about it. However the big question you ALL need to ask yourselves is:

'what if this was RWC final game with your team?'

I do not want to see the ref asking the guy upstairs for every bloody decision because he gets every angle...but it does bring about the question of a BIG BIG game...

I see a lot of SH fans having a dig at us Irish boys saying 'cry over this cry over that' trust me, you don't even need to try against Ireland, we'll hand you the points... but it raises a BIG talking point. What if it was one of your boys teams, say the saffas or NZ...I mean I'd only hope that in light of this f*ck up by the touch judge that it will be a very clear cut area (as in todays game) but if its not and we can all sit here in our homes watching it on a screen and seeing replay after replay that it was NOT supposed to be a try, do we want it to be an ability for the refs to have or not?

On note of todays game, how many other of you folk thought 'oh why oh why does that prick haskell have to be man of the match' The guy just loves himself..

Oh and p.s stop moaning at the welsh, they took the chance and it worked...

Saying Rees cheated is pathetic...he did nothing more than take a chance. What about numerous players in every game playing the ball on the ground...its the same thing and its part of the game...(an illegal part, but a part nonetheless..)

Oh and p.s stop moaning at the welsh, they took the chance and it worked...

Saying Rees cheated is pathetic...he did nothing more than take a chance. What about numerous players in every game playing the ball on the ground...its the same thing and its part of the game...(an illegal part, but a part nonetheless..)

Neither team deserved to win. What galls me though, is that Rees complained about negative play from Ire. Was he at the same game, because bar that 'try', Wales were at nothing?

Ire led all the offensive stats, more passes, kicks, line breaks, turn overs, off loads (yes, Ire actually offloaded more than another team, okay, 6 to 3).

Wonder what players 'tweets' to their fans will be now!

Neither team deserved to win. What galls me though, is that Rees complained about negative play from Ire. Was he at the same game, because bar that 'try', Wales were at nothing?

Ire led all the offensive stats, more passes, kicks, line breaks, turn overs, off loads (yes, Ire actually offloaded more than another team, okay, 6 to 3).

Wonder what players 'tweets' to their fans will be now!

shit happens, deal with it
tough call but i hope wales can take the 6n instead of england, then ireland's sacrifice will be worth it

shit happens, deal with it
tough call but i hope wales can take the 6n instead of england, then ireland's sacrifice will be worth it

Wales point difference is 25

England is 67

so thats 42 points if my tired maths is correct that England need to lose, or wales need to gain...

I dont see wales putting 42 points or even 21 un replied points on France, and I do not see Ireland putting 21 unreplied points on England..

So i think its safe to say this years RBS 6 nations champions are England, all that remains now is the Grand Slam...

Hopefully Ireland can upset that.

(: I was hoping Scotland would do it today but sadly it was not to be due to that DUBIOUS yellow card!!!!

Wales point difference is 25

England is 67

so thats 42 points if my tired maths is correct that England need to lose, or wales need to gain...

I dont see wales putting 42 points or even 21 un replied points on France, and I do not see Ireland putting 21 unreplied points on England..

So i think its safe to say this years RBS 6 nations champions are England, all that remains now is the Grand Slam...

Hopefully Ireland can upset that.

(: I was hoping Scotland would do it today but sadly it was not to be due to that DUBIOUS yellow card!!!!

We've had a fair amount of calls go our way, this time it didn't it's annoying but that's sport.
Would love to see the irish players react by scoring rather than roaring at the ref. Understandable of course, but we should have been out of reach by that stage.
I think it was a case of the worst team losing rather than the best team winning, in that out of 2 terrible displays, Irelands was the most error ridden. 51 errors in 4 games now for Ireland, and we could have lost all 4! Lets hope they can put up a good game to finish on a high!

We've had a fair amount of calls go our way, this time it didn't it's annoying but that's sport.
Would love to see the irish players react by scoring rather than roaring at the ref. Understandable of course, but we should have been out of reach by that stage.
I think it was a case of the worst team losing rather than the best team winning, in that out of 2 terrible displays, Irelands was the most error ridden. 51 errors in 4 games now for Ireland, and we could have lost all 4! Lets hope they can put up a good game to finish on a high!

On the moment, i was applauding res and phillips for this Quick piece of play. But After replays, u could see it was a cheating attempt from both (especially res)

It was a mistake by the touch ref, but he didnt imagine the cheat possible. Whatever, sad for the Spirit but wales dominated the match.

Regarding the 3 encounters of the we, the game level is low. None of the nh teams are ready for the rwc. The 3 summer months of prparation Will be a luxe!

On the moment, i was applauding res and phillips for this Quick piece of play. But After replays, u could see it was a cheating attempt from both (especially res)

It was a mistake by the touch ref, but he didnt imagine the cheat possible. Whatever, sad for the Spirit but wales dominated the match.

Regarding the 3 encounters of the we, the game level is low. None of the nh teams are ready for the rwc. The 3 summer months of prparation Will be a luxe!

No point whining about the decision - it's a technicality and doesn't make up for the fact that Ireland were asleep and Phillips was quick-thinking.

Ireland butchered a try and the kicking was shocking, so deserved to lose.

No point whining about the decision - it's a technicality and doesn't make up for the fact that Ireland were asleep and Phillips was quick-thinking.

Ireland butchered a try and the kicking was shocking, so deserved to lose.

What goes around comes around. South Africa v Ireland a few years back- ref told springbok captain to go and talk to his team and o' Gara took it quickly and scored a try whilst springbok backs were turned. Unlucky Ireland

What goes around comes around. South Africa v Ireland a few years back- ref told springbok captain to go and talk to his team and o' Gara took it quickly and scored a try whilst springbok backs were turned. Unlucky Ireland

Why are so many people against the ref going to the TMO...It would take around 30 -60 sec at most and the games is back moving again.. What's the big deal?

If any of you's claim it would simpy make the game drag on, you's must not pay much attention to the state the scrummage situation in rugby union is in...Scrums more often than not last more than a minute most of which is taken up by resetting and the ref giving out...

All he has to do, if there is any doubt whatsoever...Ask the TMO, was it the same ball? One look at it...No ref...Now play on....

I for one would much rather see the right calls made on the day instead of fuck ups like this to be honest..even if a couple of minutes are added onto the game....

Why are so many people against the ref going to the TMO...It would take around 30 -60 sec at most and the games is back moving again.. What's the big deal?

If any of you's claim it would simpy make the game drag on, you's must not pay much attention to the state the scrummage situation in rugby union is in...Scrums more often than not last more than a minute most of which is taken up by resetting and the ref giving out...

All he has to do, if there is any doubt whatsoever...Ask the TMO, was it the same ball? One look at it...No ref...Now play on....

I for one would much rather see the right calls made on the day instead of fuck ups like this to be honest..even if a couple of minutes are added onto the game....

This is the worst thing that's happened in Irish history since that appalling tackle on BOD the Beautiful by that horrible Tina Umanga earlier this century and I don't think we've discussed it enough yet. It's typical of those arrogant All Blacks that they always cheat like this against Ireland .. oh wait .. who are the red ones again?

This is the worst thing that's happened in Irish history since that appalling tackle on BOD the Beautiful by that horrible Tina Umanga earlier this century and I don't think we've discussed it enough yet. It's typical of those arrogant All Blacks that they always cheat like this against Ireland .. oh wait .. who are the red ones again?

Im irish and I dont blame wales for scoring the try, when playing sport you take chances like this. I blame the touch judge, its entirely his fault if u ask me.

Im irish and I dont blame wales for scoring the try, when playing sport you take chances like this. I blame the touch judge, its entirely his fault if u ask me.

The touch judge fucked up royally.
Not kaplan's fault that's the touch judges responsibility.
Ireland have every right to feel pissed off.
That touch judge should get the sack.

The touch judge fucked up royally.
Not kaplan's fault that's the touch judges responsibility.
Ireland have every right to feel pissed off.
That touch judge should get the sack.

Some appalling comments here and elsewhere about the Irish in general - shamefully, not just about their rugby team.

Too often in rugby, officials have a match winning influence on games. A bias can set in, and it seems in vogue to penalise the Irish at the breakdown, Fact is that Wales infringed just as much at the breakdown as Ireland did and did not get penalised as often. But for officials to get a decision as wrong as Allan did is unacceptable. He was asked "Was it the same ball?" he replied "yes". And he said so emphatically - he wanted that 'try' to stand.

I have never subscribed to the notion that bad decisions even themselves out. Two wrongs don't make a right. Anyone who loves rugby should condemn that 'try', particularly the Welsh whose acheivements in this tournament have been tainted as a result.

We saw some ugly rugby - and Wales played half of it!

Some appalling comments here and elsewhere about the Irish in general - shamefully, not just about their rugby team.

Too often in rugby, officials have a match winning influence on games. A bias can set in, and it seems in vogue to penalise the Irish at the breakdown, Fact is that Wales infringed just as much at the breakdown as Ireland did and did not get penalised as often. But for officials to get a decision as wrong as Allan did is unacceptable. He was asked "Was it the same ball?" he replied "yes". And he said so emphatically - he wanted that 'try' to stand.

I have never subscribed to the notion that bad decisions even themselves out. Two wrongs don't make a right. Anyone who loves rugby should condemn that 'try', particularly the Welsh whose acheivements in this tournament have been tainted as a result.

We saw some ugly rugby - and Wales played half of it!

Like someone beating New Zealand because of a forward pass I do not care given the amount of wins Ireland have managed by blatant cheating.

Like someone beating New Zealand because of a forward pass I do not care given the amount of wins Ireland have managed by blatant cheating.

Crap game - neither side raised themselves above average.

Kaplan asked Allen whether the right ball was used. Allen said definitively 'Yes'. That was an awful response. If he genuinely thought the right ball was used, he either doesn't know the rules (unlikely) or was hallucinating.

If he was unsure as to whether the right ball was used (more likely) he should have said so.

Had he said 'I don't know', I have a strong suspicion that Kaplan would have referred it to the TMO asking the question 'Try or no Try'. An astute TMO would have started the replay from the quick throw and I believe would have alerted Kaplan not to award the try.

Just a hunch.

Anyway Ireland played so badly they have no moral claim on the game at all.

BTW I believe there is a link on rugbdump of Kaplan getting foxed like this before in a Super 14 game a couple of seasons ago.

Crap game - neither side raised themselves above average.

Kaplan asked Allen whether the right ball was used. Allen said definitively 'Yes'. That was an awful response. If he genuinely thought the right ball was used, he either doesn't know the rules (unlikely) or was hallucinating.

If he was unsure as to whether the right ball was used (more likely) he should have said so.

Had he said 'I don't know', I have a strong suspicion that Kaplan would have referred it to the TMO asking the question 'Try or no Try'. An astute TMO would have started the replay from the quick throw and I believe would have alerted Kaplan not to award the try.

Just a hunch.

Anyway Ireland played so badly they have no moral claim on the game at all.

BTW I believe there is a link on rugbdump of Kaplan getting foxed like this before in a Super 14 game a couple of seasons ago.

I'd like to nominate the comment by self-confessed "old-fashioned fart" Stephen at March 13, 2011 7:07 PM as the best so far on this thread.

Rugby's inherent sense of fair play has always been one of the most appealing things about the game for me. One of the main things that got me into the game in the first place in fact. I despise the very word "gamesmanship" as it implies something more honourable than what it actually means: i.e. cheating.

I was sickened to see England trying exactly the same lineout ruse yesterday, even after all the controversy on Saturday and would have been as ashamed as Stephen was had England scored.

On the decision itself, same ball or not is only part of the reason the quick lineout shouldn't have been allowed. If the ball touches anyone you can't take a quick throw. Everyone knows this. So the simple fact that the ballboy has passed a ball (any ball) to Rees immediately procludes a quick lineout from being taken.

I'd like to nominate the comment by self-confessed "old-fashioned fart" Stephen at March 13, 2011 7:07 PM as the best so far on this thread.

Rugby's inherent sense of fair play has always been one of the most appealing things about the game for me. One of the main things that got me into the game in the first place in fact. I despise the very word "gamesmanship" as it implies something more honourable than what it actually means: i.e. cheating.

I was sickened to see England trying exactly the same lineout ruse yesterday, even after all the controversy on Saturday and would have been as ashamed as Stephen was had England scored.

On the decision itself, same ball or not is only part of the reason the quick lineout shouldn't have been allowed. If the ball touches anyone you can't take a quick throw. Everyone knows this. So the simple fact that the ballboy has passed a ball (any ball) to Rees immediately procludes a quick lineout from being taken.

If you were sickened it must happen ALL the time watching international rugby the Von...

Every team will take any chance they can get.

If you were sickened it must happen ALL the time watching international rugby the Von...

Every team will take any chance they can get.

As an Irishman, can we please stop giving out that this decision cost us the game. It did not. We had 30 minutes to get it back. It may have cost Ireland 7, but so did paddy wallace's decision not to pass to earls (five at least.)

Ireland v South Africa in 2004 benefited from a similar decision which led to the match winning try. (Smit was told to have a word, got them in a huddle and O'Gara took a quick tap to score a try.) South Africa that day lamented the fact they had chances later on. Can we please follow that example. We were rubbish on the day and simply got what we deserved.

As an Irishman, can we please stop giving out that this decision cost us the game. It did not. We had 30 minutes to get it back. It may have cost Ireland 7, but so did paddy wallace's decision not to pass to earls (five at least.)

Ireland v South Africa in 2004 benefited from a similar decision which led to the match winning try. (Smit was told to have a word, got them in a huddle and O'Gara took a quick tap to score a try.) South Africa that day lamented the fact they had chances later on. Can we please follow that example. We were rubbish on the day and simply got what we deserved.

To all the outraged Irish fans while I understand your frustration at this costly mistake, you really need to tone down the self-righteous attitude. Three years ago Stu Dickenson told John Smit to go and have a word with his players after a penalty infringement in their own 22. And as they gathered, he allowed Ronan OGara to take a quick tap and score in the corner. This turned out to be the winning score. And I remember very few Irish fans taking an apologetic view on this, which was an even worse mistake than the Mike Philips try. So yes, the try should not have stood. But you can only really act all hurt and victim-like if you dont approve of benefitting from similar injustices. Isnt that right?

To all the outraged Irish fans while I understand your frustration at this costly mistake, you really need to tone down the self-righteous attitude. Three years ago Stu Dickenson told John Smit to go and have a word with his players after a penalty infringement in their own 22. And as they gathered, he allowed Ronan OGara to take a quick tap and score in the corner. This turned out to be the winning score. And I remember very few Irish fans taking an apologetic view on this, which was an even worse mistake than the Mike Philips try. So yes, the try should not have stood. But you can only really act all hurt and victim-like if you dont approve of benefitting from similar injustices. Isnt that right?

Sing to the tune of Ireland's Call:

Irrrrreland Irrrrreland, Forrrrrever standing tall, crying their eyes out, 'cause Wales used the wrong ball!!!

Sing to the tune of Ireland's Call:

Irrrrreland Irrrrreland, Forrrrrever standing tall, crying their eyes out, 'cause Wales used the wrong ball!!!

Eventually the only deserved victory this week end is for Italia!!

England stole their match with a try with 2 forward pass!

So ashamed for them if they go to the Grand Slam with it!
Scotland deserved to win!

Eventually the only deserved victory this week end is for Italia!!

England stole their match with a try with 2 forward pass!

So ashamed for them if they go to the Grand Slam with it!
Scotland deserved to win!

You don't play that badly and then whinge about a dodgy try against.

Especially when you opted to ignore a run in try in the last minute in order to get closer to the posts.

We deserved to lose.
Kaplans incompetence aside.

You don't play that badly and then whinge about a dodgy try against.

Especially when you opted to ignore a run in try in the last minute in order to get closer to the posts.

We deserved to lose.
Kaplans incompetence aside.

not talking about this fake yellow card on Scotland!

If you release the guy he can continue if you don't release im you are penalised...

eeerf...thanks mate for the pro english refering all the way!

not talking about this fake yellow card on Scotland!

If you release the guy he can continue if you don't release im you are penalised...

eeerf...thanks mate for the pro english refering all the way!

It's not just because you're an "old fart", Von.

I'm 23 and feel the same way.

If you were sickened it must happen ALL the time watching international rugby the Von...

Yeah, I sort of am.

And I get that those examples given by Calon Lan are meant to highlight the ridiculousness of what it would be if players were truly self-polcied, but yeah, part of me does this that while I may not say, "Hey, sir...I actually dropped the ball when I was an inch from the ground in the tackle, so technically, it was a knock-on", I'll still feel a bit gypped that I didn't go about it the right way, so I'd be thinking that I really ought to vindicate myself by scoring again, but in a totally legal way.

The fact that this was the only try scored by Wales is the only thing that sucks about this situation.

As a lot of people have said, both teams sucked ass and neither really deserved it. But had Wales scored a legitimate try afterwards, it would've more than made up for the fact that their only one came from a bullshit call.

But then again, if people really think that Ireland's try came from one as well, then fair enough. Same goes for them.

It's not just because you're an "old fart", Von.

I'm 23 and feel the same way.

If you were sickened it must happen ALL the time watching international rugby the Von...

Yeah, I sort of am.

And I get that those examples given by Calon Lan are meant to highlight the ridiculousness of what it would be if players were truly self-polcied, but yeah, part of me does this that while I may not say, "Hey, sir...I actually dropped the ball when I was an inch from the ground in the tackle, so technically, it was a knock-on", I'll still feel a bit gypped that I didn't go about it the right way, so I'd be thinking that I really ought to vindicate myself by scoring again, but in a totally legal way.

The fact that this was the only try scored by Wales is the only thing that sucks about this situation.

As a lot of people have said, both teams sucked ass and neither really deserved it. But had Wales scored a legitimate try afterwards, it would've more than made up for the fact that their only one came from a bullshit call.

But then again, if people really think that Ireland's try came from one as well, then fair enough. Same goes for them.

There are actually 4 reasons that the throw in was illegal.

1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)

2. Someone who was not a player touched the ball.

3. It was not the same ball.

4. The hooker was actually on the field not off it when he threw it in.

For a touch judge and ref to miss all 4 is incredulous

There are actually 4 reasons that the throw in was illegal.

1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)

2. Someone who was not a player touched the ball.

3. It was not the same ball.

4. The hooker was actually on the field not off it when he threw it in.

For a touch judge and ref to miss all 4 is incredulous

Why is this being called a "controversial call?" Controversial implies there are two sides to the issue. There is one side to this - you cannot use a different ball for a quick throw in. That's it. Clear law violation, easy to see, ridiculous miss.

Also, Gatland deserves some bashing with his comment. That's not luck, that's cheating. The Welsh knew it wasn't the same ball.

Why is this being called a "controversial call?" Controversial implies there are two sides to the issue. There is one side to this - you cannot use a different ball for a quick throw in. That's it. Clear law violation, easy to see, ridiculous miss.

Also, Gatland deserves some bashing with his comment. That's not luck, that's cheating. The Welsh knew it wasn't the same ball.

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

Believe me I didn't know it was illegal either but they went through the rules and it is.

Believe me I didn't know it was illegal either but they went through the rules and it is.

Can people please stop stating that "if that try was disallowed Ireland WOULD have won, as they lost by six and the try and conversion was worth seven". It's completely false, whether the world is deterministic or whether the world is governed by mere chance and indifference i.e. freewill. In a deterministic universe the try and everything after the try was bound to happen, meaning that Ireland's destiny was to lose. Conversely, in a universe where freewill 'rules', the try and everything after the try is contingent on everything else: nothing is bound to happen. For instance, Ireland could have been rallied by the injustice and scored 6 unanswered tries, all scored by Cian Healy from 80 metres out. Or, the touchjudge says it's foul play. Ireland get the ball then proceed to a collective mental breakdown, conceding 6 answered tries, all chip-and-chases from behind his own posts John Yapp.

Sorry, but this is a personal bugbear for me.

Can people please stop stating that "if that try was disallowed Ireland WOULD have won, as they lost by six and the try and conversion was worth seven". It's completely false, whether the world is deterministic or whether the world is governed by mere chance and indifference i.e. freewill. In a deterministic universe the try and everything after the try was bound to happen, meaning that Ireland's destiny was to lose. Conversely, in a universe where freewill 'rules', the try and everything after the try is contingent on everything else: nothing is bound to happen. For instance, Ireland could have been rallied by the injustice and scored 6 unanswered tries, all scored by Cian Healy from 80 metres out. Or, the touchjudge says it's foul play. Ireland get the ball then proceed to a collective mental breakdown, conceding 6 answered tries, all chip-and-chases from behind his own posts John Yapp.

Sorry, but this is a personal bugbear for me.

^^^^
Awesome post. :)

^^^^
Awesome post. :)

All this discussion just highlights that the ultimate authority on the field is the ref. Players have no authority to police themselves or each other, so playing to the whistle is really the only way to go.

Let's face it: there's so much happening on the pitch that it's impossible for the ref to catch it all, so yes, mistakes will be made.

I disagree that the error was the touch judge's fault, as Kaplan would have been within his rights to question the decision. Perhaps it was the sheer audacity of the move that meant that he didn't even consider foul play.

We surely don't want rugby to go the way of American Football (spit!) which has all enjoyment and flow policed out of it. So a subjective imperfect solution is what we're going to get, and we can only hope for sharp-eyed, judicious and fair-minded referees.

So, despite my being peeved at the ugliness of the goings-on on Saturday, it's something I'm simply going to have to come to terms with, if I want to enjoy me rugger.

(As a side note: when I did play rugby - many, many moons ago, I *was* self-policing). Honesty and integrity meant something to me.

All this discussion just highlights that the ultimate authority on the field is the ref. Players have no authority to police themselves or each other, so playing to the whistle is really the only way to go.

Let's face it: there's so much happening on the pitch that it's impossible for the ref to catch it all, so yes, mistakes will be made.

I disagree that the error was the touch judge's fault, as Kaplan would have been within his rights to question the decision. Perhaps it was the sheer audacity of the move that meant that he didn't even consider foul play.

We surely don't want rugby to go the way of American Football (spit!) which has all enjoyment and flow policed out of it. So a subjective imperfect solution is what we're going to get, and we can only hope for sharp-eyed, judicious and fair-minded referees.

So, despite my being peeved at the ugliness of the goings-on on Saturday, it's something I'm simply going to have to come to terms with, if I want to enjoy me rugger.

(As a side note: when I did play rugby - many, many moons ago, I *was* self-policing). Honesty and integrity meant something to me.

As an afterthought: having said what I've said, don't American Football games have multiple refs on the field? At least more than one can throw a flag on a play. I wonder if such an approach could ever work in rugby?

As an afterthought: having said what I've said, don't American Football games have multiple refs on the field? At least more than one can throw a flag on a play. I wonder if such an approach could ever work in rugby?

There are 2 things wrong on this:

1 - Clearly, not the same ball, and therefore there can be no quick throw-in.

2 - The Welsh player on the sidelines had his foot either on or over the touch line (in the field of play) when he threw in the ball... a lineout must be performed with both feet in touch; outside the field of play.

In other words, the touch-judge and ref screwed up not once, but twice!

There are 2 things wrong on this:

1 - Clearly, not the same ball, and therefore there can be no quick throw-in.

2 - The Welsh player on the sidelines had his foot either on or over the touch line (in the field of play) when he threw in the ball... a lineout must be performed with both feet in touch; outside the field of play.

In other words, the touch-judge and ref screwed up not once, but twice!

Absolutely disgusting! It was not the same ball!! How in the name of basic brain power could that try have been allowed! The Irish were MASSIVELY ROBBED.

Absolutely disgusting! It was not the same ball!! How in the name of basic brain power could that try have been allowed! The Irish were MASSIVELY ROBBED.

The 10 minutes after half time has to be the worst 10 minutes of Rugby by Ire or any international side that has ever played. It was embarrassing, ever kick was shocking (lets remember ROG was playing poorly too, not just Sexton), the mistakes, handling errors, putting themselves under all sorts of pressure. Ire lost this match because they handed it to Wales, they went 35 min in the 1st half without scoring and the full 2nd, so spare me this 'we were robbed' shit.

On a side note, for the last 3 games Earls has been Ire' best defender, he hasn't dropped a single high ball under pressure (considering he's barely 5'10 and this has been held against him since the Lions), made massive tackles in all games when he had to and contrary to what George Hook says, his passing and distribution off both hands has improved a 100 fold. I think he has to be given the 12 or 15 jersey immediately. If he goes to 15, then Bowe should go to 12.

Bowe was dangerous every time he got the ball and because he's not getting it on the wing, give him a chance down the middle. D'arcy out, Mcfadden at least on the bench (maybe at 11 and drop Fitzgearld), a kick kick up the hole for Heaslip and Mclaughlin or Donnacha Ryan to come in somewhere (possibly for Leamy I hate to say).

Ryan adds height, 6'6, bulk (good scrummager), pace, carrying from deep and grunt thats lacking, and has good experience at 6 and does well alondside O'Connell.

The 10 minutes after half time has to be the worst 10 minutes of Rugby by Ire or any international side that has ever played. It was embarrassing, ever kick was shocking (lets remember ROG was playing poorly too, not just Sexton), the mistakes, handling errors, putting themselves under all sorts of pressure. Ire lost this match because they handed it to Wales, they went 35 min in the 1st half without scoring and the full 2nd, so spare me this 'we were robbed' shit.

On a side note, for the last 3 games Earls has been Ire' best defender, he hasn't dropped a single high ball under pressure (considering he's barely 5'10 and this has been held against him since the Lions), made massive tackles in all games when he had to and contrary to what George Hook says, his passing and distribution off both hands has improved a 100 fold. I think he has to be given the 12 or 15 jersey immediately. If he goes to 15, then Bowe should go to 12.

Bowe was dangerous every time he got the ball and because he's not getting it on the wing, give him a chance down the middle. D'arcy out, Mcfadden at least on the bench (maybe at 11 and drop Fitzgearld), a kick kick up the hole for Heaslip and Mclaughlin or Donnacha Ryan to come in somewhere (possibly for Leamy I hate to say).

Ryan adds height, 6'6, bulk (good scrummager), pace, carrying from deep and grunt thats lacking, and has good experience at 6 and does well alondside O'Connell.

Guys for fucks sake this isn't an Ireland bs Wales thing it's a 'game vs officials' thing!

The officials need to be hot on stuff like this and obviously there was no doubt in the officials mind thy it was the same ball.....so maybe he needs some specs?

Guys for fucks sake this isn't an Ireland bs Wales thing it's a 'game vs officials' thing!

The officials need to be hot on stuff like this and obviously there was no doubt in the officials mind thy it was the same ball.....so maybe he needs some specs?

Who said anything about Wales cheating? Any team would have tried it. It's up to referees and touch judges to notice or at least know the rules of the game.

The only disgraceful thing, other than the referee / touch judge, was Phillips' immediate reaction and his post match interview. I guess he knows that he didn't have the ability to do it without being handed the try by the officiators.

Who said anything about Wales cheating? Any team would have tried it. It's up to referees and touch judges to notice or at least know the rules of the game.

The only disgraceful thing, other than the referee / touch judge, was Phillips' immediate reaction and his post match interview. I guess he knows that he didn't have the ability to do it without being handed the try by the officiators.

It is the TJs job, and that ball boy clearly brought the ball to the hooker within plain view of the TJ. What is both of their jobs, however, was to also note that the #9 and the person at the 15m mark of the LO "set the line" - which means that there are 4-6 players less than 10m back for Wales who are not part of the LO, as they are outside the 15m mark. It could/should have been halted for that as well. Because of that, I don't think this was a "quick" LO really. These two players "set" the LO - but it still should be invalid because of the nature of the other players...

It is the TJs job, and that ball boy clearly brought the ball to the hooker within plain view of the TJ. What is both of their jobs, however, was to also note that the #9 and the person at the 15m mark of the LO "set the line" - which means that there are 4-6 players less than 10m back for Wales who are not part of the LO, as they are outside the 15m mark. It could/should have been halted for that as well. Because of that, I don't think this was a "quick" LO really. These two players "set" the LO - but it still should be invalid because of the nature of the other players...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0314/1224292065486.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0314/1224292065486.html

Ireland were completly robbed there,the welsh didnt deserve that result due to the impact that try had on the game,Ireland were poor but would still have won the game had the linesman and Kaplan not been so thick as to not go to the TMO

Ireland were completly robbed there,the welsh didnt deserve that result due to the impact that try had on the game,Ireland were poor but would still have won the game had the linesman and Kaplan not been so thick as to not go to the TMO

There's no excuse for Kaplan - he was looking straight at the ball when he saw the kick go into the spectators. If he's really a world class referee then he should have known that it didn't matter if it was the same ball - once it was touched by a spectator the quick throw was illegal - and why couldn't Allan have seen the hookers foot inside the line when he threw it???

There's no excuse for Kaplan - he was looking straight at the ball when he saw the kick go into the spectators. If he's really a world class referee then he should have known that it didn't matter if it was the same ball - once it was touched by a spectator the quick throw was illegal - and why couldn't Allan have seen the hookers foot inside the line when he threw it???

as a referee myself, with IRB papers, I think Mr Kaplan made a grave error.

anytime I'm refereeing a game and the ball is kicked towards the touchline, there is a simple sequence of events you need to go through.

1 - position of the kick relative to the 22m line (to thus determine if it's allowed out on the full or not)

2 - where the kick lands and if it goes into touch

3 - when the ball goes out of touch, where should the corresponding lineout take place and for whom.

It is at stage 3 that the ref needs to continue checking what happens to the ball since he must then decide where the lineout is to be taken and HOW. The touch judge's task should only be to make the mark - including the call about out on the full if necessary.

The ref should have kept his eye on the ball and as soon as he saw it went outside the playing enclosure AND was touched by someone apart from the thrower, his mind should have already decided "No quick line out allowed"

I have a lot of time for Mr Kaplan but i think he's made a really bad call here.

as a referee myself, with IRB papers, I think Mr Kaplan made a grave error.

anytime I'm refereeing a game and the ball is kicked towards the touchline, there is a simple sequence of events you need to go through.

1 - position of the kick relative to the 22m line (to thus determine if it's allowed out on the full or not)

2 - where the kick lands and if it goes into touch

3 - when the ball goes out of touch, where should the corresponding lineout take place and for whom.

It is at stage 3 that the ref needs to continue checking what happens to the ball since he must then decide where the lineout is to be taken and HOW. The touch judge's task should only be to make the mark - including the call about out on the full if necessary.

The ref should have kept his eye on the ball and as soon as he saw it went outside the playing enclosure AND was touched by someone apart from the thrower, his mind should have already decided "No quick line out allowed"

I have a lot of time for Mr Kaplan but i think he's made a really bad call here.

Also, how come Wales could take a quick lineout given that there was at least one Irish player marking the line at the mark of the lineout. Refs never pick this up.

Also, how come Wales could take a quick lineout given that there was at least one Irish player marking the line at the mark of the lineout. Refs never pick this up.

Let's jsut throw in a little bit to see how much people know of the laws and how much they just listen to the TV guys.

What if the AR thought it was a quickly taken line out rather than a quick throw (QT)

Let's jsut throw in a little bit to see how much people know of the laws and how much they just listen to the TV guys.

What if the AR thought it was a quickly taken line out rather than a quick throw (QT)

Then it wasn't straight and Ree's foot was in the field of play. But those called go either way in every game, don't think there would be any complaining if that was the problem. The problem is the touch judge was asked a question and he gave an answer he couldn't possibly have known "is it the correct ball?" "yes" then Kaplan ask again, almost as if he's surprised by the answer, that's the problem the TJ and he should be held to account as a result

Then it wasn't straight and Ree's foot was in the field of play. But those called go either way in every game, don't think there would be any complaining if that was the problem. The problem is the touch judge was asked a question and he gave an answer he couldn't possibly have known "is it the correct ball?" "yes" then Kaplan ask again, almost as if he's surprised by the answer, that's the problem the TJ and he should be held to account as a result

I am not Irish but wow would I have been fuming at this decision if I was. It is unforgivable on so many levels. How can the linesman not see that it was a different ball used, or does he simply not know the rules. The referee was clearly unsure about the legality of the try and it would have taken 30 seconds to go to the TMO and check whether it was the same ball. You can almost always tell whether something has gone wrong by the reaction of the players and by the reactions of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell, it was clear that something just wasn't right!

I am not Irish but wow would I have been fuming at this decision if I was. It is unforgivable on so many levels. How can the linesman not see that it was a different ball used, or does he simply not know the rules. The referee was clearly unsure about the legality of the try and it would have taken 30 seconds to go to the TMO and check whether it was the same ball. You can almost always tell whether something has gone wrong by the reaction of the players and by the reactions of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Paul O'Connell, it was clear that something just wasn't right!

Deary deary me. I've read most of the comments and I suppose it was inevitable that some people would feel that the Irish were hard done by.

But let's look at some facts shall we?

- Ireland should have been penalised at the second ruck of the game from which Lee Byrne's kick was charged down as ROG was off side (I was in line with it in the stands).

- Wallace should have been penalised for hands in the ruck around 10 minutes in, which would have resulted in a attempt in an eminently kickable position.

- There was a forward pass around 15 minutes in that was a good six yards forward.

- Roberts was penalised for being held in the tackle when he wasn't.

- A high tackle on Shane Williams went unpunished.

- 2 incidents of Irish crossing around 64 minutes.

So if, as I read, the IRB are going to apologise to Ireland for the try, will they also apologise to Wales for all these indiscretions? No, and nor should they because the game is played on the day and referees aren't perfect. I agree that use of the TMO should be looked at - a la rugby league where offsides, forward passes etc can be checked in the immediate build-up to a try.

Ireland should maybe have a look at their own game. Sexton misses a sitter in front of the posts, the kicking out of hand by ROG and Sexton was dreadful, handing the initiative back to Wales. And as for that last attack, the less said the better.

And to all those saying that Wales were infringing at ruck time, what planet are you on? Irish ball was far quicker coming back to Stringer (Wallace and O'Brien were awesome) and that gave them real momentum in their attacks and made them look far more dynamic than Wales who looked lethargic most of the time and had slow ball throughout the game.

Still, I think Ireland can beat England given home support. Make sure it's by at least 20 points boys.

Deary deary me. I've read most of the comments and I suppose it was inevitable that some people would feel that the Irish were hard done by.

But let's look at some facts shall we?

- Ireland should have been penalised at the second ruck of the game from which Lee Byrne's kick was charged down as ROG was off side (I was in line with it in the stands).

- Wallace should have been penalised for hands in the ruck around 10 minutes in, which would have resulted in a attempt in an eminently kickable position.

- There was a forward pass around 15 minutes in that was a good six yards forward.

- Roberts was penalised for being held in the tackle when he wasn't.

- A high tackle on Shane Williams went unpunished.

- 2 incidents of Irish crossing around 64 minutes.

So if, as I read, the IRB are going to apologise to Ireland for the try, will they also apologise to Wales for all these indiscretions? No, and nor should they because the game is played on the day and referees aren't perfect. I agree that use of the TMO should be looked at - a la rugby league where offsides, forward passes etc can be checked in the immediate build-up to a try.

Ireland should maybe have a look at their own game. Sexton misses a sitter in front of the posts, the kicking out of hand by ROG and Sexton was dreadful, handing the initiative back to Wales. And as for that last attack, the less said the better.

And to all those saying that Wales were infringing at ruck time, what planet are you on? Irish ball was far quicker coming back to Stringer (Wallace and O'Brien were awesome) and that gave them real momentum in their attacks and made them look far more dynamic than Wales who looked lethargic most of the time and had slow ball throughout the game.

Still, I think Ireland can beat England given home support. Make sure it's by at least 20 points boys.

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

Toby - brilliant post sir.

Toby - brilliant post sir.

We will try again, the AR doesn't think it is a QT but a quickly taken line out. There is a huge differeance

Kaplan asks him 1st time is it the same ball, teh AR replies IT was a quickly taken line out (ie not a quick throw).

Kaplan asks again was it the correct ball AR says yes (because for a quickly taken throw it doesn't need to be the same ball).

In my view very poor questioning from Kaplan and AR wasn't clear enough.

We will try again, the AR doesn't think it is a QT but a quickly taken line out. There is a huge differeance

Kaplan asks him 1st time is it the same ball, teh AR replies IT was a quickly taken line out (ie not a quick throw).

Kaplan asks again was it the correct ball AR says yes (because for a quickly taken throw it doesn't need to be the same ball).

In my view very poor questioning from Kaplan and AR wasn't clear enough.

100!

100!

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

March 15, 2011 3:27 AM

Wrong, wrong, thrice wrong. I thought this myself but watching a Magner's League game recently I was calling for the team (possibly Irish prov) to take the quick throw, they did and the ref blew them up saying, exactly what the post you've commented on says. The throw can only be taken quickly from the spot where it goes out on the full, or in line with where the kick was. Maybe you've seen it happen, but as I would've agreed with you 2 months ago, I also hadit spelt out.

To anonymous (yeah one of you) your first reason isn't illegal.
"1. When you take a quick throw from a out on the full kick its from where the ball crossed the line not from the kicker took the kick (where it was taken from)"

You can throw it in anywhere from the try line up to the point where the ball crossed the line on a quick throw.

March 15, 2011 3:27 AM

Wrong, wrong, thrice wrong. I thought this myself but watching a Magner's League game recently I was calling for the team (possibly Irish prov) to take the quick throw, they did and the ref blew them up saying, exactly what the post you've commented on says. The throw can only be taken quickly from the spot where it goes out on the full, or in line with where the kick was. Maybe you've seen it happen, but as I would've agreed with you 2 months ago, I also hadit spelt out.

For everyone body who keeps suggesting all the rugby is really in the s15, you should refer to the classic comment on the England sctoland thread.

...Our rugby would look just like yours if we didnt tackle...

Listen to the Jedi, thy opposition drinks for being F*%king weak in the scrum, drink up boys and stop moaning!

For everyone body who keeps suggesting all the rugby is really in the s15, you should refer to the classic comment on the England sctoland thread.

...Our rugby would look just like yours if we didnt tackle...

Listen to the Jedi, thy opposition drinks for being F*%king weak in the scrum, drink up boys and stop moaning!

What the hell does that have to do with this video about a try in a Wales vs ireland test match?

And if you genuinly believe that garbage, you know nothing about rugby.

Obviously if a team like the Crusaders is full of All Blacks, and they can tackle the shit out of the combined national teams of Europe at national team level, to the point they rarely even concede a single try on an entire november tour, they are going to be able to tackle at provincial level.

It's just that in S15 the play is faster and the players are better, so it's harder tod efend their attacking play.

It's why NH teams lose the vast majority of the time.

But I guess you ahve to lie to yourself to feel better.

What the hell does that have to do with this video about a try in a Wales vs ireland test match?

And if you genuinly believe that garbage, you know nothing about rugby.

Obviously if a team like the Crusaders is full of All Blacks, and they can tackle the shit out of the combined national teams of Europe at national team level, to the point they rarely even concede a single try on an entire november tour, they are going to be able to tackle at provincial level.

It's just that in S15 the play is faster and the players are better, so it's harder tod efend their attacking play.

It's why NH teams lose the vast majority of the time.

But I guess you ahve to lie to yourself to feel better.

Now now old boy no need to stop being a lady

The question is what the hell does S15 or the crusaders have to do with this match but it doesnt stop you guys commenting all the time. The point is its boring.

The talk is always england arogant this, france flakey that, Wales want to be NZ.. dull.

The minute somebody challenges your BS you start through the toys out of the pram as you just did.

The SH isn't a better standard of rugby its just different, but as long as you keep posting stupid comments guys like me will pull you up for it

Now now old boy no need to stop being a lady

The question is what the hell does S15 or the crusaders have to do with this match but it doesnt stop you guys commenting all the time. The point is its boring.

The talk is always england arogant this, france flakey that, Wales want to be NZ.. dull.

The minute somebody challenges your BS you start through the toys out of the pram as you just did.

The SH isn't a better standard of rugby its just different, but as long as you keep posting stupid comments guys like me will pull you up for it

Then why do we win more than you do?
Why is the winning percentage for SH teams against NH teams so much better.
Why do top level coaches and players acknowledge the skills gap publicly.
You nonce, you nothing about rugby.

Then why do we win more than you do?
Why is the winning percentage for SH teams against NH teams so much better.
Why do top level coaches and players acknowledge the skills gap publicly.
You nonce, you nothing about rugby.

Toby - that is one of the least objective (yet entertaining) comments I've come across in a while. I could argue that Shane Williams should have been penalised for jumping into a tackle, or that Wales should have been down to 14 just before half time for hands in the ruck when Ireland were under your sticks, and so on... But those are the marginal calls that always even themselves out over the course of the game. Even though they can be infuriating, you can't really fault the ref when he makes those close calls one way or the other. The try was a farce though. Laughable.

As for Ireland, I don't think they're as far away from where they want to be as a lot of people think. There's nothing between the top 4 6N teams and I think they'll beat the English on Saturday.

Toby - that is one of the least objective (yet entertaining) comments I've come across in a while. I could argue that Shane Williams should have been penalised for jumping into a tackle, or that Wales should have been down to 14 just before half time for hands in the ruck when Ireland were under your sticks, and so on... But those are the marginal calls that always even themselves out over the course of the game. Even though they can be infuriating, you can't really fault the ref when he makes those close calls one way or the other. The try was a farce though. Laughable.

As for Ireland, I don't think they're as far away from where they want to be as a lot of people think. There's nothing between the top 4 6N teams and I think they'll beat the English on Saturday.

It's not the winning that matters...

It's not the winning that matters...

Malachy