Bakkies Botha cited for dangerous clearout on Dewaldt Duvenage

Horrible tackle. I don't like the arm around the neck driving downwards. That's just stupid.

Oh, and first!

Horrible tackle. I don't like the arm around the neck driving downwards. That's just stupid.

Oh, and first!

The risk of neck injury, given the headlock and downward pressure, probably is what's done it for Botha this time.

The risk of neck injury, given the headlock and downward pressure, probably is what's done it for Botha this time.

Absolute disgrace. Yes, rugby is about smashing your opposition, but ideally you might want to have a beer with them afterwards, not see them crippled for life.

Absolute disgrace. Yes, rugby is about smashing your opposition, but ideally you might want to have a beer with them afterwards, not see them crippled for life.

filth

filth

Nothing wrong, just get on with it and allow the tough guys to get stuck in at the ruck.......

Yes he did grab his neck and put it in an awkward position, but I don't think it was intentional, he was trying to smash him and its just what happened.......

This kind of thing takes place about 10 times a game, in a tough and fast one anyway.

Nothing wrong, just get on with it and allow the tough guys to get stuck in at the ruck.......

Yes he did grab his neck and put it in an awkward position, but I don't think it was intentional, he was trying to smash him and its just what happened.......

This kind of thing takes place about 10 times a game, in a tough and fast one anyway.

Good work rate. Unfortunately Botha has drawn attention to himself from the past though, so stuff like this gets noticed, rather that just being another regulation cleanout.

Good work rate. Unfortunately Botha has drawn attention to himself from the past though, so stuff like this gets noticed, rather that just being another regulation cleanout.

Not intentionnal ??? Let me laugh : ah ah !

Not intentionnal ??? Let me laugh : ah ah !

Could have broken his neck there! He's watching too much WWE wrestling. How would he feel if he had paralysed the guy?

Could have broken his neck there! He's watching too much WWE wrestling. How would he feel if he had paralysed the guy?

More dirty stuff from the filthiest player in world rugby. Someone take this idiot out back and shoot him before he puts someone in a wheelchair.

More dirty stuff from the filthiest player in world rugby. Someone take this idiot out back and shoot him before he puts someone in a wheelchair.

Nothing in that, he has just gone to clear out at the ruck. I think its more the case that given Bakkies disciplinary record people are looking into it as more then it is. If it had been a player with a better disciplinary record then I doubt it would even have been raised

Nothing in that, he has just gone to clear out at the ruck. I think its more the case that given Bakkies disciplinary record people are looking into it as more then it is. If it had been a player with a better disciplinary record then I doubt it would even have been raised

It's a penalty as he is attacking the scrum half before the ball is out. But it certainly isn't a citing.

He hits with his shoulder, but wraps both arms. He is low and hits the 9s shoulder, the contact around the head comes because the 9 is so low. I don't see how this can be viewed as anymore dangerous than tackling a player in a low body position.

It's a penalty as he is attacking the scrum half before the ball is out. But it certainly isn't a citing.

He hits with his shoulder, but wraps both arms. He is low and hits the 9s shoulder, the contact around the head comes because the 9 is so low. I don't see how this can be viewed as anymore dangerous than tackling a player in a low body position.

i dont like bakkies botha at all but i think his previous history has gone against him a bit there. yes, he did have an arm around the neck which is very dangerous but im not sure that was intentional

i dont like bakkies botha at all but i think his previous history has gone against him a bit there. yes, he did have an arm around the neck which is very dangerous but im not sure that was intentional

I don't think it was intentional, last I heard he is not a black belt in Jujitsu. He also happens to be a lot bigger than his opponent which meant he smashed downwards on him as opposed to upwards and his head got trapped....

these things happen very quickly and when your hitting your umpteenth ruck of the match you don't have time to think it all through.

I don't think it was intentional, last I heard he is not a black belt in Jujitsu. He also happens to be a lot bigger than his opponent which meant he smashed downwards on him as opposed to upwards and his head got trapped....

these things happen very quickly and when your hitting your umpteenth ruck of the match you don't have time to think it all through.

I agree with Dave. I think Bakkies has done some more than questionable things in the past, but this looks like a bit of a beat-up by the judiciary. First time seeing it I was impressed with how effective the cleanout was, then he goes straight back in to hit another ruck with another cleanout. He's a big guy, a hit like that is always going to look worse against a halfback. I don't think you could call this intentional though..

I agree with Dave. I think Bakkies has done some more than questionable things in the past, but this looks like a bit of a beat-up by the judiciary. First time seeing it I was impressed with how effective the cleanout was, then he goes straight back in to hit another ruck with another cleanout. He's a big guy, a hit like that is always going to look worse against a halfback. I don't think you could call this intentional though..

for all of the "tough" guys who say there's nothing in that, I would say you should get your arse of the couch and on to the pitch for a few tackles.
Botha doesn't just play the game, he seems to enjoy inflicting pain, little touchs like a reverse headlock while driving into the ground are certainly something, and given his history I would say it was high time he got a life a ban. Below this post you'll find at least 4 other clips, but that's just where he gets caught. He's a dirty mindless thug and I think he's a disgrace to the game.
Come RWC time, all the game needs to get a terrible rep worldwide is this idiot paralysing someone, and he seems to try his best to do just that.

for all of the "tough" guys who say there's nothing in that, I would say you should get your arse of the couch and on to the pitch for a few tackles.
Botha doesn't just play the game, he seems to enjoy inflicting pain, little touchs like a reverse headlock while driving into the ground are certainly something, and given his history I would say it was high time he got a life a ban. Below this post you'll find at least 4 other clips, but that's just where he gets caught. He's a dirty mindless thug and I think he's a disgrace to the game.
Come RWC time, all the game needs to get a terrible rep worldwide is this idiot paralysing someone, and he seems to try his best to do just that.

The arm around the neck does look nasty but you have to wonder whether that might be related to his citing and ban a few years back for clearing out Adam Jones without binding on.

It'd be ironic if something he's started doing to avoid getting cited gets him cited!

The arm around the neck does look nasty but you have to wonder whether that might be related to his citing and ban a few years back for clearing out Adam Jones without binding on.

It'd be ironic if something he's started doing to avoid getting cited gets him cited!

The clear out is brutal, with the head, but quite correct.
What i don't understand, is why he continued to drive down the scrum half by putting his arms around the neck it could have been a stupid and dangerous injury.

a ban, ok, but i don't know how much as he didn't injured him

The clear out is brutal, with the head, but quite correct.
What i don't understand, is why he continued to drive down the scrum half by putting his arms around the neck it could have been a stupid and dangerous injury.

a ban, ok, but i don't know how much as he didn't injured him

Incidentally, I don't know how that wasn't a penalty for coming in from the side either. I know there's an element of interpretation there, but he didn't go through the ruck at all, just went along the side and attacked the scrum-half.

Odd refereeing.

Incidentally, I don't know how that wasn't a penalty for coming in from the side either. I know there's an element of interpretation there, but he didn't go through the ruck at all, just went along the side and attacked the scrum-half.

Odd refereeing.

First angle I thought whats wrong with that, second angle I thought its lucky that guy can still walk, silly stuff

First angle I thought whats wrong with that, second angle I thought its lucky that guy can still walk, silly stuff

In the side and played the player without the ball... TOOL!

In the side and played the player without the ball... TOOL!

No matter how good a player he can be, this type of behavior time and time again is unacceptable.

That could have easily even snapped the neck of the scrum-half! I hope he gets banned for at least a year or two. Enough is enough bakkies!!

No matter how good a player he can be, this type of behavior time and time again is unacceptable.

That could have easily even snapped the neck of the scrum-half! I hope he gets banned for at least a year or two. Enough is enough bakkies!!

come on, stop citing for every single tackle he does!!
that wasnt so bad to be honest

come on, stop citing for every single tackle he does!!
that wasnt so bad to be honest

Ok, Bakkies has previous but this does bring about an interesting question. If you're going to clear a guy out of a ruck and he's low over the ruck facing forward isn't the defending player going to have to go through him around the head/shoulder area? I'm not saying it's right but it's going to be difficult to clear somebody out without going there.

Ok, Bakkies has previous but this does bring about an interesting question. If you're going to clear a guy out of a ruck and he's low over the ruck facing forward isn't the defending player going to have to go through him around the head/shoulder area? I'm not saying it's right but it's going to be difficult to clear somebody out without going there.

Where's the logic in not citing because the player wasn't seriously hurt? If it's illegal and potentially dangerous then it should be a citing.
Whether the player ends up hurt or not often depends on their level of fitness or strength, that has nothing to so with the rules.
It should be a citing, whether the recieving player is a 9 or a 2 doesn't matter.

Where's the logic in not citing because the player wasn't seriously hurt? If it's illegal and potentially dangerous then it should be a citing.
Whether the player ends up hurt or not often depends on their level of fitness or strength, that has nothing to so with the rules.
It should be a citing, whether the recieving player is a 9 or a 2 doesn't matter.

@hakney griffin and anonymus, and to anyone confused on whats happening: let's get a few things straight, 1) this isn't a tackle, it's a counter-ruck (or ruck clearence); 2) it's not from the side imo because the gate is formed by the body of the player that goes to the ground (number 4 white) and he goes over that player, if anything it's a poor ruck by the white prop (who is not really on his feet) and basically leaves their scrum half open to this kind of defense. So there are no penalties there. This said even in clearing a ruck there shouldn't be any of this neck binding business, and i think that's why he was cited.

@hakney griffin and anonymus, and to anyone confused on whats happening: let's get a few things straight, 1) this isn't a tackle, it's a counter-ruck (or ruck clearence); 2) it's not from the side imo because the gate is formed by the body of the player that goes to the ground (number 4 white) and he goes over that player, if anything it's a poor ruck by the white prop (who is not really on his feet) and basically leaves their scrum half open to this kind of defense. So there are no penalties there. This said even in clearing a ruck there shouldn't be any of this neck binding business, and i think that's why he was cited.

Shamefull. Cleanout had already been made, no point in keep pushing a scrumhalf, and yet he grabs him by the neck and slams him into the ground. That can paralize someone. You may argue that we shouldnt be too harsh because nothing serious happened, but what if it had (it is pretty possible, with this kind of stupid things)? What would you say? jaaaa.... I knew that kind of thing can paralize someone, but jaaaa..... rugby is a contact sport... go buy some tutus.... didn't think this was the time where my bullying would go wrong.

And what if botha's past doens't let me believe it wasn't intentional? Are you going to tell me I have no reason not to believe him when he says it wasn't intentional? I know the forwards and the tight five get themselves in some hard situations (I play second and third row). But bakkies has 5 times more "situations" in his CV than almost any other lock in the world. And you never see anyone else headbutting someone from behind.
Fact is, the bastard enjoys inflicting pain, makes him feel like a big man.

SA have many quality locks. If I was in charge you would not see Botha use the green and gold ever again.

Shamefull. Cleanout had already been made, no point in keep pushing a scrumhalf, and yet he grabs him by the neck and slams him into the ground. That can paralize someone. You may argue that we shouldnt be too harsh because nothing serious happened, but what if it had (it is pretty possible, with this kind of stupid things)? What would you say? jaaaa.... I knew that kind of thing can paralize someone, but jaaaa..... rugby is a contact sport... go buy some tutus.... didn't think this was the time where my bullying would go wrong.

And what if botha's past doens't let me believe it wasn't intentional? Are you going to tell me I have no reason not to believe him when he says it wasn't intentional? I know the forwards and the tight five get themselves in some hard situations (I play second and third row). But bakkies has 5 times more "situations" in his CV than almost any other lock in the world. And you never see anyone else headbutting someone from behind.
Fact is, the bastard enjoys inflicting pain, makes him feel like a big man.

SA have many quality locks. If I was in charge you would not see Botha use the green and gold ever again.

@anon three comments up: for on there's a penalty called sealing off, and then you can always wrap around his back and roll out whith him if you know what i mean.

@anon three comments up: for on there's a penalty called sealing off, and then you can always wrap around his back and roll out whith him if you know what i mean.

its the way he did it, he could have broken the guys neck jeeze

its the way he did it, he could have broken the guys neck jeeze

Actually i like botha and i think he often got cited for nothing wrong but this time he really shouldnt have put his arm around the neck!

Actually i like botha and i think he often got cited for nothing wrong but this time he really shouldnt have put his arm around the neck!

Count me skeptical. Maybe this should be a citeable offence, more for the afters than the clear-out itself, but Bakkies can chalk this up as another thing which he is the only person in the history of the game to have been cited for.

His reputation goes before him, obviously, but it is amazing how no-one else ever gets cited for things like the Adam Jones incident. You want to treat Bakkies differently? Okay, subject him to longer bans given his past history. But how about citing other people for the same offences, because until that happens he's being unfairly singled out.

Count me skeptical. Maybe this should be a citeable offence, more for the afters than the clear-out itself, but Bakkies can chalk this up as another thing which he is the only person in the history of the game to have been cited for.

His reputation goes before him, obviously, but it is amazing how no-one else ever gets cited for things like the Adam Jones incident. You want to treat Bakkies differently? Okay, subject him to longer bans given his past history. But how about citing other people for the same offences, because until that happens he's being unfairly singled out.

Duvenage, Aplon, Cowan... Cheap shots on players who are half his size. Sums up the guy really.

Duvenage, Aplon, Cowan... Cheap shots on players who are half his size. Sums up the guy really.

That is a rediculous tackle, arm around the neck like that and driving him down into the ground!
This is the kind of stuff that puts people in wheelchairs. No place for it!

That is a rediculous tackle, arm around the neck like that and driving him down into the ground!
This is the kind of stuff that puts people in wheelchairs. No place for it!

This reminds me of the WWF Undertaken slam....

Botha is pinning his neck forward and then picks him up and slams him withou the ball. It's an obvios penalty and worht a citing...apart from that the ball was ntot out and he entered from the side of the ruck....

This reminds me of the WWF Undertaken slam....

Botha is pinning his neck forward and then picks him up and slams him withou the ball. It's an obvios penalty and worht a citing...apart from that the ball was ntot out and he entered from the side of the ruck....

absolutely disgraceful.
at first sight I thought, there's nothing wrong, put then, the arm around the neck is just horrible.

absolutely disgraceful.
at first sight I thought, there's nothing wrong, put then, the arm around the neck is just horrible.

Get rid of Bakkies, the guy is a wank!

Get rid of Bakkies, the guy is a wank!

Are you kidding me? I've yet to even play in a game where atleast once in a ruck or tackle someone ends up getting choked holded like that. I feel like bakkies is getting some undeserved heat for this one.

Are you kidding me? I've yet to even play in a game where atleast once in a ruck or tackle someone ends up getting choked holded like that. I feel like bakkies is getting some undeserved heat for this one.

How anyone can say that is not a citing offense is beyond me!

Just for the fact that he grabbed he around the neck and picked him up like that is flat out illegal and dangerous.

Sure you can vigorously counter ruck, but what Botha did here is absurd.

How anyone can say that is not a citing offense is beyond me!

Just for the fact that he grabbed he around the neck and picked him up like that is flat out illegal and dangerous.

Sure you can vigorously counter ruck, but what Botha did here is absurd.

It was dangerous but I doubt it was intentional...

Even so driving someone's head and neck downwards while in that position should rightly be against the rules considering the possible consequences....

The fact that the scrum half was so small compared to him didnt help either as it allowed Bakkies to manhandle him, unlike if it was say someone like ali williams he was trying to clean out

It was dangerous but I doubt it was intentional...

Even so driving someone's head and neck downwards while in that position should rightly be against the rules considering the possible consequences....

The fact that the scrum half was so small compared to him didnt help either as it allowed Bakkies to manhandle him, unlike if it was say someone like ali williams he was trying to clean out

Dirty Bastard

Dirty Bastard

First one was suspect only in the way he headlocked the player and practically guillotined him. Second was textbook as far as I'm concerned.

First one was suspect only in the way he headlocked the player and practically guillotined him. Second was textbook as far as I'm concerned.

Ha. Look at all te internet tough guys saying that was perfectly legal. Bollox. You cannot pick someone up by the neck like that....and then slam them down. As above said, his 2nd clean out was 100% legal.

Ha. Look at all te internet tough guys saying that was perfectly legal. Bollox. You cannot pick someone up by the neck like that....and then slam them down. As above said, his 2nd clean out was 100% legal.

Come on there have been worse clean outs than this. As soon a Bakkies does something he is classed as a bully. Grow up guys there was no malice in this.

Come on there have been worse clean outs than this. As soon a Bakkies does something he is classed as a bully. Grow up guys there was no malice in this.

being aggressive is a good quality! but this is unnaceptable! he could have broken the 9's neck.

one more thing, why's bakkies always hitting on 9's? I would like to watch him doing this to a.w.jones or O'connel

being aggressive is a good quality! but this is unnaceptable! he could have broken the 9's neck.

one more thing, why's bakkies always hitting on 9's? I would like to watch him doing this to a.w.jones or O'connel

Based on his history of taking cheap shots at players when they are prone and exposed at rucks you have to say that this was once again intentional.

I long for the day that a team target this sicko properly and take him out of the game for good. Back in the days before there were cameras dotted around the field in every possible location a team could get away with making sure the player they were after was left on the deck after a ruck and played no further part in the game. These days its too easy to get spotted.

If he's allowed to carry on, he will cripple someone one day, or worse. This is not a one-off incident.

Based on his history of taking cheap shots at players when they are prone and exposed at rucks you have to say that this was once again intentional.

I long for the day that a team target this sicko properly and take him out of the game for good. Back in the days before there were cameras dotted around the field in every possible location a team could get away with making sure the player they were after was left on the deck after a ruck and played no further part in the game. These days its too easy to get spotted.

If he's allowed to carry on, he will cripple someone one day, or worse. This is not a one-off incident.

Typical Bakkies, cowardly cheap shot.

Typical Bakkies, cowardly cheap shot.

Of course it is citeable, probably not because it is high or dangerous, though it appears it could be judged that...but because you can't take out the halfback.

Andrew Hore was yellow carded for exactly the same thing.

As he wasn't punished on the field like Hore, he may be out for a week, plus whatever they want to add for the high or dangerous thing, plus his previous record.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Of course it is citeable, probably not because it is high or dangerous, though it appears it could be judged that...but because you can't take out the halfback.

Andrew Hore was yellow carded for exactly the same thing.

As he wasn't punished on the field like Hore, he may be out for a week, plus whatever they want to add for the high or dangerous thing, plus his previous record.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Wow, if i had a dollar for every time this has happened in a game i would be a fucking millionaire. why dont we just penalise every tackle and clean out on suspicion. grow a fucking pair cunts.

Wow, if i had a dollar for every time this has happened in a game i would be a fucking millionaire. why dont we just penalise every tackle and clean out on suspicion. grow a fucking pair cunts.

Bakkies is just another coward, I've never seen the man (big kid) fight. BOD had him walking backwards. Coward and sooner the SA fans realise that the sooner this twat should retire

Bakkies is just another coward, I've never seen the man (big kid) fight. BOD had him walking backwards. Coward and sooner the SA fans realise that the sooner this twat should retire

Did anybody else see Sean O'Brien dump an England player over the top of a ruck on the weekend in the same way that Mealamu/Umaga did to BOD? Amazing that RTE (host broadcasters) didn't show a replay of that.....

Did anybody else see Sean O'Brien dump an England player over the top of a ruck on the weekend in the same way that Mealamu/Umaga did to BOD? Amazing that RTE (host broadcasters) didn't show a replay of that.....

Bakkies loves this stuff.

In from the side. Check.
Much smaller player. Check.
Lead with the head. Check.
Maximise contact with the neck/head area. Check.

All of these incidents are the same, he is trying to injure people. I was a little dubious about his punishment against the B&I Lions, but looking back it is now obvious to me that he was trying to pop Jones shoulder.

He has thrown away any right he had to being given the benefit of the doubt.

Bakkies loves this stuff.

In from the side. Check.
Much smaller player. Check.
Lead with the head. Check.
Maximise contact with the neck/head area. Check.

All of these incidents are the same, he is trying to injure people. I was a little dubious about his punishment against the B&I Lions, but looking back it is now obvious to me that he was trying to pop Jones shoulder.

He has thrown away any right he had to being given the benefit of the doubt.

Dodge, I missed that episode - I wonder if you could find a link to it or put it on Youtube to geat a good look at it, see if there was anything in it? No citing or request for one from the England team though, and no injury, so until we have pictures...

Dodge, I missed that episode - I wonder if you could find a link to it or put it on Youtube to geat a good look at it, see if there was anything in it? No citing or request for one from the England team though, and no injury, so until we have pictures...

Hope he gets a heavy ban

Hope he gets a heavy ban

Not sure what the problem is there. I'm not a fan of the headlock/half nelson, but he didn't lock it tight and I think it was more accidental than anything. My only quibble would be whether he was coming in the side. I fear it's his reputation rather than the act itself that's done him here.

Not sure what the problem is there. I'm not a fan of the headlock/half nelson, but he didn't lock it tight and I think it was more accidental than anything. My only quibble would be whether he was coming in the side. I fear it's his reputation rather than the act itself that's done him here.

Moenie worry Bakkies, these ou's are still bitter about getting a PK in the Lions series.

Moenie worry Bakkies, these ou's are still bitter about getting a PK in the Lions series.

Dodge,

I saw the dump you reference. IIRC, Nick Easter asked the ref about it at the next opportunity, but he was shushed as the ref was in the midst of awarding an infraction of some sort to Ireland. Strange scene. To his credit, Easter just got on with the game.

Dodge,

I saw the dump you reference. IIRC, Nick Easter asked the ref about it at the next opportunity, but he was shushed as the ref was in the midst of awarding an infraction of some sort to Ireland. Strange scene. To his credit, Easter just got on with the game.

I've been critical of him in the past for never missing an opportunity to take a cheap shot on a smaller man, but to be fair, I don't think there is intent here. He went for an aggressive cleanout, and his hands shouldnt have been up around the neck, but no foul play/intent. But with his track record, this stuff is going to get noticed.

I've been critical of him in the past for never missing an opportunity to take a cheap shot on a smaller man, but to be fair, I don't think there is intent here. He went for an aggressive cleanout, and his hands shouldnt have been up around the neck, but no foul play/intent. But with his track record, this stuff is going to get noticed.

what do you really gain from that sought of tackle....

what do you really gain from that sought of tackle....

What is wrong with you soft c**ks. This is Rugby for gods sakes! Good hit!

What is wrong with you soft c**ks. This is Rugby for gods sakes! Good hit!

He really is such an arse, just ban him from the game. It's better without him.

He really is such an arse, just ban him from the game. It's better without him.

shocking and uncalled for....

shocking and uncalled for....

just checking out the related vids list under the vid shows what he's all about. Theres aggression and then theres dirty. Botha is definitely in the latter.

just checking out the related vids list under the vid shows what he's all about. Theres aggression and then theres dirty. Botha is definitely in the latter.

dangerous bus not intentional. both were low, he tried wrapping his arms and he wasnt exactly looking to put his arm around his neck. was a mistake but shouldnt be banned for it.

dangerous bus not intentional. both were low, he tried wrapping his arms and he wasnt exactly looking to put his arm around his neck. was a mistake but shouldnt be banned for it.

"I'm a pussy who agrees with this, Botha is a thug and I'm a jealous little bitch because he won a world cup and is one of the two best locks in the world. Ohhhh wait until big dick brad thorn gets him ohhhhhh Brad thorn, now that's a real hard man! yep he deserved that citing 5-6 months he is like Burger that eye gouger ohhh my goodness the Lions tour losing it hurts my body"

See, I didn't even have to read all of you comments. I already knew what most of you intellectuals have said, losers.

"I'm a pussy who agrees with this, Botha is a thug and I'm a jealous little bitch because he won a world cup and is one of the two best locks in the world. Ohhhh wait until big dick brad thorn gets him ohhhhhh Brad thorn, now that's a real hard man! yep he deserved that citing 5-6 months he is like Burger that eye gouger ohhh my goodness the Lions tour losing it hurts my body"

See, I didn't even have to read all of you comments. I already knew what most of you intellectuals have said, losers.

No spear tackle, no high tackle - just a clean BIND to the ruck LIKE HE WAS TOLD TO. Not his fault he physically owned the Scrumhalf.

Just out to get Botha because of his past. If a big polynesian nobody did this he wouldn't be cited at all.

Anyway, the Bok pack is going to own everything come world cup time, even without Juan Smith.

Brussow is back and he single handedly defeated the Waratahs away from home.

8. Alberts
7. Burger
6. Brussow
5. Matfield
4. Botha
3. Jannie
2. Bismarck
1. Beast

(Alberts,Brussow,Botha-for the most part, Bismarck and the Beast were ALL out of the Tri-nations 2010)

No spear tackle, no high tackle - just a clean BIND to the ruck LIKE HE WAS TOLD TO. Not his fault he physically owned the Scrumhalf.

Just out to get Botha because of his past. If a big polynesian nobody did this he wouldn't be cited at all.

Anyway, the Bok pack is going to own everything come world cup time, even without Juan Smith.

Brussow is back and he single handedly defeated the Waratahs away from home.

8. Alberts
7. Burger
6. Brussow
5. Matfield
4. Botha
3. Jannie
2. Bismarck
1. Beast

(Alberts,Brussow,Botha-for the most part, Bismarck and the Beast were ALL out of the Tri-nations 2010)

How did BOD have Botha walking backwards? From what I've seen in images on google, Botha is driving his forearm into little BOD's neck and if he continued could have easily killed him.

How did BOD have Botha walking backwards? From what I've seen in images on google, Botha is driving his forearm into little BOD's neck and if he continued could have easily killed him.

I respect the fact that when he is not being a prick he can play well, however I have NO respect for bakkies.. I believe SA has far superior second rows that are worthy of his jersey!

The guy is a 'self proclaimed enforcer'...I have not actually seen him 'enforce himself' on players of similar size (yeh yeh, i know the guy is a tank and its hard to find someone else his size..) but he generally always seems to be imposing himself on smaller players or those in vulnerable positions...

I think it is a massive shame because he can be a great player, but it appears he has this 'bad boy, bully boy' attitude about him such as he tries to intimidate with his size... Rather than say, someone like Matfield, who intimidates you with his skill (his size helps obviously)

I think this is just another example of his attempt to bully others on the pitch...

Please guys dont be pathetic and bring up BOD and botha...i think BOD is a million times the player bakkies is, however he would easily get destroyed...

I respect the fact that when he is not being a prick he can play well, however I have NO respect for bakkies.. I believe SA has far superior second rows that are worthy of his jersey!

The guy is a 'self proclaimed enforcer'...I have not actually seen him 'enforce himself' on players of similar size (yeh yeh, i know the guy is a tank and its hard to find someone else his size..) but he generally always seems to be imposing himself on smaller players or those in vulnerable positions...

I think it is a massive shame because he can be a great player, but it appears he has this 'bad boy, bully boy' attitude about him such as he tries to intimidate with his size... Rather than say, someone like Matfield, who intimidates you with his skill (his size helps obviously)

I think this is just another example of his attempt to bully others on the pitch...

Please guys dont be pathetic and bring up BOD and botha...i think BOD is a million times the player bakkies is, however he would easily get destroyed...

No.7

Don't you think he goes beyond bullying though? There are not many players who intentionally try to injure people out of the game. And there are even fewer who keep doing it season after season.

No.7

Don't you think he goes beyond bullying though? There are not many players who intentionally try to injure people out of the game. And there are even fewer who keep doing it season after season.

Don;t see what the fuss is.
He's just paying for his reputation.
If anyone else had done that I doubt anyone would have noticed.
Bullshit citing.

Don;t see what the fuss is.
He's just paying for his reputation.
If anyone else had done that I doubt anyone would have noticed.
Bullshit citing.

hey look it's bakkies picking on yet another small player..

for those who don't think wrapping your arm around the neck of someone is unintentional, you need to get off your butts and play rugby.. this is clearly a calculated move done by dirty players

hey look it's bakkies picking on yet another small player..

for those who don't think wrapping your arm around the neck of someone is unintentional, you need to get off your butts and play rugby.. this is clearly a calculated move done by dirty players

Oh totally 'remember the mer' I think he imposes himself on smaller players to make his image of a big tough guy even bigger...

I do play rugby, I am aware of accidental incidents within matches... However, I must admit that may i am extremely lucky or something, but I cant actually recall a single incident where i accidently got someone round the neck in a ruck..or lead with my head etc etc..

I can however recall numerous times where I have not pulled out of a tackle when the ball went, lead with my head into another player in a ruck, stuck my shoulder hard into the guts of a player at the front of a maul who could not cover his torso...

Now im not trying to be 'big macho man' but those are incidents which I can clearly recall hurting someone on purpose (to some degree) through dubious play...(or illegal...)

The kind of things bakkies does are not accidental, he may not have planned it hours before the game, and ofcourse they may have been spur of the moment decisions, but no one tends to do stuff like that by accident... especially not at the rate that bakkies does it...

He is the kind of player that will deliberately throw his weight into someone (sometimes legally) with the intent to injure...Like i said before, I stuck my shoulder into the torso of a guy at the front of a driving maul...why did i do it? I dont know exactly my reasons, not to fight or anything, but i didnt try to do it to become a new friend...i tried to hurt the guy, and i did hurt the guy....

It may have been a 'brain explosion' on my part, but i still meant to do it...

p.s not proud of my indescretions, i just felt they might justify my argument!

Oh totally 'remember the mer' I think he imposes himself on smaller players to make his image of a big tough guy even bigger...

I do play rugby, I am aware of accidental incidents within matches... However, I must admit that may i am extremely lucky or something, but I cant actually recall a single incident where i accidently got someone round the neck in a ruck..or lead with my head etc etc..

I can however recall numerous times where I have not pulled out of a tackle when the ball went, lead with my head into another player in a ruck, stuck my shoulder hard into the guts of a player at the front of a maul who could not cover his torso...

Now im not trying to be 'big macho man' but those are incidents which I can clearly recall hurting someone on purpose (to some degree) through dubious play...(or illegal...)

The kind of things bakkies does are not accidental, he may not have planned it hours before the game, and ofcourse they may have been spur of the moment decisions, but no one tends to do stuff like that by accident... especially not at the rate that bakkies does it...

He is the kind of player that will deliberately throw his weight into someone (sometimes legally) with the intent to injure...Like i said before, I stuck my shoulder into the torso of a guy at the front of a driving maul...why did i do it? I dont know exactly my reasons, not to fight or anything, but i didnt try to do it to become a new friend...i tried to hurt the guy, and i did hurt the guy....

It may have been a 'brain explosion' on my part, but i still meant to do it...

p.s not proud of my indescretions, i just felt they might justify my argument!

Meh, Bakkies loses a portion of his credibility each time he does something like this.

Actually, the more I see of him, the more I see a resemblance to Cudmore!

He might have more skill than Cudmore but he still behaves like an ape who got a day pass to a rugby match!

Meh, Bakkies loses a portion of his credibility each time he does something like this.

Actually, the more I see of him, the more I see a resemblance to Cudmore!

He might have more skill than Cudmore but he still behaves like an ape who got a day pass to a rugby match!

In my opinion Botha does nothing wrong apart from slamming Duvenage, and thats where the problem lies.

Theres a vslid argument that the main reason the scrum half gets slammed is because Bakkies is so much bigger, and honestly if it were another player i could understand them getting away without a citing.

But this is Bakkies and at this stage in his career i think hes no longer entitled to the benefit of the doubt.

I think we should always try an err on the side of safety and Bakkies should receive a significant ban, if for no other reason to discourage similar incidents in future which may result in a more tragic ending.

PS @ No.7, I find it hard to believe that you never grabbed someone round the neck in a ruck, Ive done it several times and Im a back. (obviously not in a malicious way, its just easier to drive someone back when you put them off balance)

In my opinion Botha does nothing wrong apart from slamming Duvenage, and thats where the problem lies.

Theres a vslid argument that the main reason the scrum half gets slammed is because Bakkies is so much bigger, and honestly if it were another player i could understand them getting away without a citing.

But this is Bakkies and at this stage in his career i think hes no longer entitled to the benefit of the doubt.

I think we should always try an err on the side of safety and Bakkies should receive a significant ban, if for no other reason to discourage similar incidents in future which may result in a more tragic ending.

PS @ No.7, I find it hard to believe that you never grabbed someone round the neck in a ruck, Ive done it several times and Im a back. (obviously not in a malicious way, its just easier to drive someone back when you put them off balance)

a dirty player at his stupid, un-sportsmanlike play

a dirty player at his stupid, un-sportsmanlike play

So... if Botha rammed his shoulder into the scrumhalf... he'd be in the wrong... but he binds onto the scrumhalf like you're supposed to... and he's still "wrong". Think they're going a bit overboard on trying to stop Bakkies from playing, grow a pair of balls.

Wow, oh well. All Botha has to do is show you his world cup winners medal, he's a sporting legend... deal with it.

So... if Botha rammed his shoulder into the scrumhalf... he'd be in the wrong... but he binds onto the scrumhalf like you're supposed to... and he's still "wrong". Think they're going a bit overboard on trying to stop Bakkies from playing, grow a pair of balls.

Wow, oh well. All Botha has to do is show you his world cup winners medal, he's a sporting legend... deal with it.

RD, your write up is retarded. Botha was counter rucking and bound, no high tackle, no spear tackle - no citing, not his fault if the scrumhalf's neck got in the wrong place. Suppose you're a Durbanite though and think Steven Sykes or some other journeyman is more deserving of a Bok spot.

RD, your write up is retarded. Botha was counter rucking and bound, no high tackle, no spear tackle - no citing, not his fault if the scrumhalf's neck got in the wrong place. Suppose you're a Durbanite though and think Steven Sykes or some other journeyman is more deserving of a Bok spot.

nothing wrong with this clear-out / tackle whatever you want to call it. unfortunately bakkies' previous indiscretions mean he's the centre of attention for the citing commissioner anyway, and borderline calls such as this will always go against him. it's definitely up for debate as to whether he's still an asset to a bulls outfit looking decidedly obsolete this season, though. A shame really as he's still one of the best locks in the game.

nothing wrong with this clear-out / tackle whatever you want to call it. unfortunately bakkies' previous indiscretions mean he's the centre of attention for the citing commissioner anyway, and borderline calls such as this will always go against him. it's definitely up for debate as to whether he's still an asset to a bulls outfit looking decidedly obsolete this season, though. A shame really as he's still one of the best locks in the game.

What is very hard to understand is that (this idiot) has one of the best ever second row player right next to him Victor Matfield! All of Botha's moves are bad intentional, he should be removed from playing inmediatly before he really leaves someone in a wheelchair. I just feel badly for him if that happens... he's so stupid he will hardly find a decent job.

What is very hard to understand is that (this idiot) has one of the best ever second row player right next to him Victor Matfield! All of Botha's moves are bad intentional, he should be removed from playing inmediatly before he really leaves someone in a wheelchair. I just feel badly for him if that happens... he's so stupid he will hardly find a decent job.

Rugby is NOT about smashing your opposition, rugby is about playing fair and well in hopes of not being left crippled by idiots like Bakkies Botha so you can enjoy a beer standing on your feet by the bar and not in a wheelchair...

Rugby is NOT about smashing your opposition, rugby is about playing fair and well in hopes of not being left crippled by idiots like Bakkies Botha so you can enjoy a beer standing on your feet by the bar and not in a wheelchair...

Hey anon, learn to use brackets, dumb ass.

Hey anon, learn to use brackets, dumb ass.

Anonymous said RD, your write up is retarded. Botha was counter rucking and bound, no high tackle, no spear tackle - no citing, not his fault if the scrumhalf's neck got in the wrong place.

I dont see any mention of the word spear or high tackle anywhere in the write up! It even says that the ref saw it and let it go, so your one-sided, defensive Pretoria attitude makes you look rather foolish.

About what Botha did, I think if you over-analyse each and every instance of this type of play in every match you'll end up with half the forward packs being suspended.

Where there's smoke there's fire though, and Botha's record will contribute to him being screwed on this one.

Anonymous said RD, your write up is retarded. Botha was counter rucking and bound, no high tackle, no spear tackle - no citing, not his fault if the scrumhalf's neck got in the wrong place.

I dont see any mention of the word spear or high tackle anywhere in the write up! It even says that the ref saw it and let it go, so your one-sided, defensive Pretoria attitude makes you look rather foolish.

About what Botha did, I think if you over-analyse each and every instance of this type of play in every match you'll end up with half the forward packs being suspended.

Where there's smoke there's fire though, and Botha's record will contribute to him being screwed on this one.

Scum Botha at it again..only a matter of time really till he got banned again!

Scum Botha at it again..only a matter of time really till he got banned again!

And to those who say they never see him 'enforce' himself on bigger players, that's absolutely not true. He makes a nuisance of himself all match, getting involved at rucktime, contributing with his weight in the scrum, mauling, getting in opposition face etc. Just because he hasn't been cited (recently) for anything with a big guy, it doesnt mean that he runs around the field only doing the physical stuff on little guys.

PLUS, aside from maybe 2 out of 15 players, most guys are actually smaller than him! :)

And to those who say they never see him 'enforce' himself on bigger players, that's absolutely not true. He makes a nuisance of himself all match, getting involved at rucktime, contributing with his weight in the scrum, mauling, getting in opposition face etc. Just because he hasn't been cited (recently) for anything with a big guy, it doesnt mean that he runs around the field only doing the physical stuff on little guys.

PLUS, aside from maybe 2 out of 15 players, most guys are actually smaller than him! :)

"Blogger Matt said...

What is wrong with you soft c**ks. This is Rugby for gods sakes! "

Yeah that's why people are moaning, it was a pussy shot, cheap and cowardly.

"Blogger Matt said...

What is wrong with you soft c**ks. This is Rugby for gods sakes! "

Yeah that's why people are moaning, it was a pussy shot, cheap and cowardly.

I have to laugh at guys calling people 'soft cocks' - I guess that makes them 'hard cocks', much better, huh? Permanent erections...

And the guys saying "Botha has a WC medal, you don't" or whatever - so what? That has no bearing on whether he is a dirty and dangerous player. He is. He is also a very good player. But when he does dirty and dangerous things, he needs to be punished, or he will cripple a fellow player some day. Will you still be defending him then?

I have to laugh at guys calling people 'soft cocks' - I guess that makes them 'hard cocks', much better, huh? Permanent erections...

And the guys saying "Botha has a WC medal, you don't" or whatever - so what? That has no bearing on whether he is a dirty and dangerous player. He is. He is also a very good player. But when he does dirty and dangerous things, he needs to be punished, or he will cripple a fellow player some day. Will you still be defending him then?

i have to laugh at these idiots who think that is ok. that would break the neck of most men. i've never had a huge problem with Botha but that is a disgrace. the very worst thing i've ever seen on a rugby pitch.

i have to laugh at these idiots who think that is ok. that would break the neck of most men. i've never had a huge problem with Botha but that is a disgrace. the very worst thing i've ever seen on a rugby pitch.

Dumb farmboy, he'd be sparked out cold in a fight (unless his opponent agrees to fight with his eyes closed and his back to Bakkies).

Dumb farmboy, he'd be sparked out cold in a fight (unless his opponent agrees to fight with his eyes closed and his back to Bakkies).

Update: Botha has been cleared of any wrongdoing, so will be free to play this weekend.

Update: Botha has been cleared of any wrongdoing, so will be free to play this weekend.

Its rubbish to call people who don't think this is intentional or not a punishable offense as internet tough guys..... I think its exactly the opposite actually, keyboard warriors who over-analyze the game usually carp the most nonsense: 'disgraceful!' 'thug!' 'shameful'

Some things have no place in the game and others are just part and parcel of rugby. I do feel that what Botha did here is dangerous however I don't think he meant it in the sense that others are claiming.... he was trying to smash his opponent as most players do and they got into a bad position because of their difference in size.... he was not trying to break his neck for god's sake!

I reckon most of the people who actually play or have played the game are more understanding. I haven't played rugby for a few years but lots of dangerous but unintentional things like this happened all the time in matches because things happen quickly and the game is aggressive. I loved tackling people, some of my biggest hits would be considered spears these days from a technical standpoint due to the position of their legs but I never drove someones head into the ground, or tried to break a persons neck. Knock the wind out of them and intimidate, definitely. After dislocating thumbs, shoulders, fractures and concussions I realize that this game is rough and when 15 opponents are trying to beat the hell out of you sometimes things happen by accident, though on purpose at the same time if you catch my drift.

Botha and other players should be made aware that this type of neck crank is dangerous...... leave it at that and punish the next guy who blatantly does it despite the warning.

Its rubbish to call people who don't think this is intentional or not a punishable offense as internet tough guys..... I think its exactly the opposite actually, keyboard warriors who over-analyze the game usually carp the most nonsense: 'disgraceful!' 'thug!' 'shameful'

Some things have no place in the game and others are just part and parcel of rugby. I do feel that what Botha did here is dangerous however I don't think he meant it in the sense that others are claiming.... he was trying to smash his opponent as most players do and they got into a bad position because of their difference in size.... he was not trying to break his neck for god's sake!

I reckon most of the people who actually play or have played the game are more understanding. I haven't played rugby for a few years but lots of dangerous but unintentional things like this happened all the time in matches because things happen quickly and the game is aggressive. I loved tackling people, some of my biggest hits would be considered spears these days from a technical standpoint due to the position of their legs but I never drove someones head into the ground, or tried to break a persons neck. Knock the wind out of them and intimidate, definitely. After dislocating thumbs, shoulders, fractures and concussions I realize that this game is rough and when 15 opponents are trying to beat the hell out of you sometimes things happen by accident, though on purpose at the same time if you catch my drift.

Botha and other players should be made aware that this type of neck crank is dangerous...... leave it at that and punish the next guy who blatantly does it despite the warning.

glad he was cleared, joke if he wasn't.

He's still a dirty nutter though.

glad he was cleared, joke if he wasn't.

He's still a dirty nutter though.

Just this once justice prevails. Part of being a forward is being a bully. You are trying to out bully the other bullies. Bakkies rules!

Just this once justice prevails. Part of being a forward is being a bully. You are trying to out bully the other bullies. Bakkies rules!

Just as I thought. When are the powers to be going to get tougher on stuff like that. He should be banned from playing rugby for the rest of the year. And he should get a fine. What would have happened if Dewaldt had broken his neck. It is an absolute disgrace. That is why i will never support the Bulls.

Just as I thought. When are the powers to be going to get tougher on stuff like that. He should be banned from playing rugby for the rest of the year. And he should get a fine. What would have happened if Dewaldt had broken his neck. It is an absolute disgrace. That is why i will never support the Bulls.

Just as I thought. When are the powers to be going to get tougher on stuff like that. He should be banned from playing rugby for the rest of the year. And he should get a fine. What would have happened if Dewaldt had broken his neck. It is an absolute disgrace. That is why i will never support the Bulls.

Just as I thought. When are the powers to be going to get tougher on stuff like that. He should be banned from playing rugby for the rest of the year. And he should get a fine. What would have happened if Dewaldt had broken his neck. It is an absolute disgrace. That is why i will never support the Bulls.

He'll do it again. Rugby is about controlled aggression, and courage. Botha's problem is that he lacks the control sometimes. If the hard cocks here got what they wanted, rugby would turn into some sort of Ultimate Fighting MMA wrestling match. That's not rugby guys. Controlled aggression. The control part is what distinguishes rugby players from thugs.

He'll do it again. Rugby is about controlled aggression, and courage. Botha's problem is that he lacks the control sometimes. If the hard cocks here got what they wanted, rugby would turn into some sort of Ultimate Fighting MMA wrestling match. That's not rugby guys. Controlled aggression. The control part is what distinguishes rugby players from thugs.

Disgusting.

Disgusting.

Oh bugger... I read half of the comments and most of you are nuts. Not intentional? Oh please man.

I don't play rugby but I'm very observant. There's a thousand more ways to clear out a ruck than wrap your arm around another players' neck. That's choking man. To the one guy saying you've cleared out players many times by wrapping around the neck. It's because that makes them go into submission, hence easier clean out. Should be entirely illegal. Sure, rugby has softened up a bit since the good old days, but all in the name of safety/injury.

Bakkies is a class player, with an unfortunate track record. With his size I don't know why he could not have cleared out Duvenage by any other normal means other than a neck choke and pile driver manouvre. Intentional. Fact.

Oh bugger... I read half of the comments and most of you are nuts. Not intentional? Oh please man.

I don't play rugby but I'm very observant. There's a thousand more ways to clear out a ruck than wrap your arm around another players' neck. That's choking man. To the one guy saying you've cleared out players many times by wrapping around the neck. It's because that makes them go into submission, hence easier clean out. Should be entirely illegal. Sure, rugby has softened up a bit since the good old days, but all in the name of safety/injury.

Bakkies is a class player, with an unfortunate track record. With his size I don't know why he could not have cleared out Duvenage by any other normal means other than a neck choke and pile driver manouvre. Intentional. Fact.

I'm a big fan of Bakkies, but that was dangerous. You can't grab someone round the neck and dump them - not cool.

I'm a big fan of Bakkies, but that was dangerous. You can't grab someone round the neck and dump them - not cool.

'Just this once justice prevails. Part of being a forward is being a bully. You are trying to out bully the other bullies. Bakkies rules!'

...there was me thinking a scrum half wasnt a forward....

'Just this once justice prevails. Part of being a forward is being a bully. You are trying to out bully the other bullies. Bakkies rules!'

...there was me thinking a scrum half wasnt a forward....

^^ And not just Duvenage...perhaps Cowan and Aplon aswell....All big forwards..

^^ And not just Duvenage...perhaps Cowan and Aplon aswell....All big forwards..

Jesus, so if you don't agree that this was a citing you're a "soft-cock tough guy"?
What a load of crap.
Personally I don't believe it was particularly bad, and if another player besides Botha had done it I very much doubt anyone would care or notice.
That doesn't mean I'm trying to be a tough guy, it just means I have a different opinion on the incident.

Maybe just disagree with civility, rather than throw insults around?

Jesus, so if you don't agree that this was a citing you're a "soft-cock tough guy"?
What a load of crap.
Personally I don't believe it was particularly bad, and if another player besides Botha had done it I very much doubt anyone would care or notice.
That doesn't mean I'm trying to be a tough guy, it just means I have a different opinion on the incident.

Maybe just disagree with civility, rather than throw insults around?

"if another player besides Botha had done it I very much doubt anyone would care or notice."

if another player besides Botha had such a bad disciplinary history I very much doubt he would still play professional rugby.

"if another player besides Botha had done it I very much doubt anyone would care or notice."

if another player besides Botha had such a bad disciplinary history I very much doubt he would still play professional rugby.

what the hell is wrong with that?!

what the hell is wrong with that?!

Really Dalma? Because I'm pretty sure Cudmore has a worse record, or at least comparable.

I'm not really defending him as a player, he's about as much of a scum bag as you can be as a player (ask Brendon Cannon what he thinks).

But if you're going to be objective about this incident, it's the kind of clear out you see fairly regularly on rugby.

Again, anyone else, i doubt it would have been noticed.

Really Dalma? Because I'm pretty sure Cudmore has a worse record, or at least comparable.

I'm not really defending him as a player, he's about as much of a scum bag as you can be as a player (ask Brendon Cannon what he thinks).

But if you're going to be objective about this incident, it's the kind of clear out you see fairly regularly on rugby.

Again, anyone else, i doubt it would have been noticed.

By the way, here's what Adam Jones had to say about the Lions tour clear out Botha got banned for :

"Botha shouldn't have been banned for it, nowhere near it. I don't have any complaints. He just cleared me out of the ruck and I got caught. Everyone counter-rucks nowadays and, if anything, I was in the wrong place. He just hit me and I was unlucky. So I was surprised to see he got banned. I know we didn't cite him so I don't know why the independent commissioner did. It was just a fair ruck from a hard player. When I have met him before he seems like a tidy enough bloke so I'm not seeing it as anything malicious."

By the way, here's what Adam Jones had to say about the Lions tour clear out Botha got banned for :

"Botha shouldn't have been banned for it, nowhere near it. I don't have any complaints. He just cleared me out of the ruck and I got caught. Everyone counter-rucks nowadays and, if anything, I was in the wrong place. He just hit me and I was unlucky. So I was surprised to see he got banned. I know we didn't cite him so I don't know why the independent commissioner did. It was just a fair ruck from a hard player. When I have met him before he seems like a tidy enough bloke so I'm not seeing it as anything malicious."

No.7

Nothing wrong with the incident's you describe. They sound like rugby to me, nothing wrong with putting the hurt on someone.

But there is a difference between putting your shoulder into another players torso and Bakkies diving head first at full pace into the side of Gio Aplon's head.

No.7

Nothing wrong with the incident's you describe. They sound like rugby to me, nothing wrong with putting the hurt on someone.

But there is a difference between putting your shoulder into another players torso and Bakkies diving head first at full pace into the side of Gio Aplon's head.

Hmmm guys can anyone get me the number for Gerrie Swart, bakkies legal rep? I just got caught with a bloodied knife in my hand after stabbing 15 people to death.... This should be an easy case for him to get me off!!!

Is he any relation to OJ's lawyer? Or did he just break out the 'chewbacca defence' ?

Hmmm guys can anyone get me the number for Gerrie Swart, bakkies legal rep? I just got caught with a bloodied knife in my hand after stabbing 15 people to death.... This should be an easy case for him to get me off!!!

Is he any relation to OJ's lawyer? Or did he just break out the 'chewbacca defence' ?

Arssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllleee

Arssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllleee

surprise surprise, bakkies botha was involved in dirty play, wow ive never seen that from him before

surprise surprise, bakkies botha was involved in dirty play, wow ive never seen that from him before