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Carlos Spencer & Stephen Larkham fight


Eddie Butler on Jonny Wilkinson career

Sunday, April 17, 2011

Gcobani Bobo and Chris Ashton's little duel from Kingston Park

Gcobani Bobo and Chris Ashton's little duel from Kingston Park

Tempers flared in a highly eventful Aviva Premiership game between Newcastle Falcons and Northampton Saints on Friday night. This video features one of the sideshows from the fiery match, which resulted in a 22-15 win for Saints.

In a situation that's fairly similar to the Josh Lewsey vs Mat Rogers incident in 2003, opposite numbers Gcobani Bobo and Chris Ashton had a cameo battle that went on all night.

It started with a little push and shove from Ashton, England's star winger who lacks no passion. A few minutes later Bobo flattened him with a massive tackle out wide. The teamates loved it, with Jimmy Gopperth, himself the victim of a few big hits, hooting and wooing as they got up in the face of the Saints boys. A little wink from Bobo sealed the deal.

It was Ashton though, ever the competitor, who actually had the last laugh as he scored the match winning try late in the game, and went on to make sure that Bobo knew all about it.

We'll have more from this match over the next few days, as there were a few incidents that are worth sharing, including a late hit that looked like a punch, and a lock smashing a prop. You can view points highlights on the sidebar now though, with the eplayer.

:: Related Posts ::
Chris Ashton dives into the record books as England punish Italy (2011)
Chris Ashton's brilliant try against the Wallabies at Twickenham (2010)
Huge hit by Gcobani Bobo results in the try for Kankowski (2007)
Josh Lewsey big hit on Mat Rodgers (2003)

Time: 02:23

Posted at 3:51 pm | 136 comments

Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play

Viewing 136 comments

JAMIE April 17, 2011 2:37 pm

Maybe, but Ashton has always been cocky. Every game. And the thing is, he's generally playing inferior opposition. He was anonymous in the 6N after Italy. Particularly against Ireland where they smothered him and exposed him for what he is. All he can do is track and run reasonably fast and any intelligent team and coaching staff will have that sorted in no time.

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vinniechan April 17, 2011 2:38 pm

Give Ashton a break! When wingers are scoring it's an indication of the team working well and when they don't u can point to the team not functioning (more so with the England mid field).
We don't mind a bit of a banter, especially when no one is penalised for punching/ eye gouging etc...

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RD April 17, 2011 2:38 pm

There's been too much negativity in the comments in recent times. Keep things positive and respectful, or your comments will simply be removed. Failing that, commenting will be disabled.

We're all rugby fans here - lets enjoy it. Cheers

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Tony April 17, 2011 2:39 pm

Agree with Jamie. Ashton started it and his try has nothing to do with beating Bobo, while Bobo absolutely smashed him.
All in all though, not nice to see on a rugby pitch - they should keep this attitude crap for Americans and their big-ego (small ****) sports.

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 2:40 pm

Comments are there for a reason. Turn them off then because I want to make my point. Ashton gets so much praised from the British media but he is an average payer with an alternative style of play that just had to be examined before he could be stopped easily.

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No.7 April 17, 2011 2:41 pm

Bit of genius, bit of magic..f*ck wrong bobo....

Ashton looks like he's been eating too many pies....

I actually find him a little annoying on the field, i think he needs to mature a little more, ireland got under his skin and bobo did here!

Good to see (:

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David April 17, 2011 2:41 pm

Wow Jamie, are you serious?

Ok he got shut down vs Ireland, but then the entire English team did...

I am in no way an Ashton fanboy, but come on man. All he can do is track and 'run reasonably fast?' He is a very good player. Albeit a pretty cocky one, but thats part of his game too.

Cool video, nice to see two wingers having a bit of a battle..

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 2:42 pm

And I put thought into my first post. I'm not trolling RD. Any sort of discussion will bring attract, be it positive or negative. And I'm sure your noticed, but in almost every single clip some sort of disagreements between individuals or negative comments come up about a clip (then people chime in with positives and off it goes).

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 2:42 pm

Bobo was always solid defensively. Very strong tackler. Never seen him start any scuffle before, Ashton must've gotten under his collar in that first 'exchange'. I really think Ashton went too far to go and celebrate in his face (actually prodding and pushing him!?!) - I have NEVER seen that before!

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 2:47 pm

David

There were three good performances in the 6N. ENG vs. FRA, ITA vs. ENG and IRE vs. ENG. The two performance of ENG and the one performance of IRE were the only performance that come close to that of the SH teams. When Ashton was faced with a decent team playing well, he couldn't keep up. This is what ENG will be facing in the latter stages of the World Cup. When ENG come up against quality opposition such as those in the RWC, he will be exposed for an average player. He should not be judged as exceptional because of matches against poor opposition in this years 6N and inferior teams of the Premiership.

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RD April 17, 2011 2:48 pm

JAMIE, don't take it personally, but when a comment thread starts with 'Chris Ashton is an overrated dick', it's never a good thing.

Lets just keep things on the up here. There's way too much negative bitching going on, that makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Fair play to you for continuing it as a decent discussion though.

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wolfman April 17, 2011 2:49 pm

Jamie, I imagine RD was referring to that rubbish on the Digby Ioane post about which hemisphere is better, about soccer or rugby being better blah blah etc etc.

Huge hit by Bobo that one, but he came out of the defensive line too early on the Ashton try. Ashton was obviously pumped up, but a sneaky smile, and the old "look at the scoreboard" would have had the same result.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 2:50 pm

The tackle wasn't that amazing. It was well timed but you could see Ashton get back up straight away and was pretty unaffected by it. I'm pretty sure he has experienced far bigger hits on a regular basis in Rugby League where it's a frequent occurrence. I think a bit of banter during a game is a good thing, but if a player does what Bobo did after making a half decent tackle every time it would certainly become quite tedious.

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 2:52 pm

Fair enough. Point taken. I'll tone down the language and tone.

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I hate ppl who write April 17, 2011 2:59 pm

I think that the reason Ashton got in his face was the little celebration by Bobo after he got his hit in. I have "NEVER" seen that before, getting back in someone's face after scoring the winning try isn't actually all that uncommon. I'm not a huge Ashton fan, but in this case I think he was justified.

As for him being over rated, not many wingers in the world can score length of the pitch tries against Australia, with Drew Mitchell of all people trying to catch up, and 4 tries in one game is a feat in itself. Let's remember that Italy could have won a few more games this 6ns.

As an Irishman I'm glad there was no swan diving in Dublin, but I think couch potatoes can be a little hyper critical and hence the negative threads referred to by RD. Ashton is a top winger, with an attitude, but hey, he's 23, living his dream and loves his Rugby, let's not be too negative about that.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 3:04 pm

one break away try doesn't make him good..

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Alexander April 17, 2011 3:06 pm

Seriously, all that wooing is VERY childish. Men on the pitch? No!

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 3:07 pm

He's better than you Jamie

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Fearg April 17, 2011 3:20 pm

He looked like he was trying to start a fight at the end. I like Bobo after that. Not Ashton. Better player, worse character.

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Tom April 17, 2011 3:24 pm

I think if ashton carries on this "cocky" nature, im sure people will learn to target him and put him in his place. Overall hes a decent player, i wouldnt say outstanding. But i think he needs to mature and focus more on the game than he currently is.

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 3:33 pm

Regarding Ashton's try vs. AUS: As I said, he is reasonably fast. That was all he needed for that try.

When it came to beating Mitchell, depending on what Mitchell did, it was going to be a 50 / 50 chance or a 100 / 0 chance of scoring.

If Mitchell had guessed whether Ashton was going to go inside or outside and reacted, he could have made it a 50 / 50 chance. But, Mitchell did not react until Ashton made the decision to go inside. By that time, it was too late. All Ashton had to do was keep running.

Yes it was a good try, but it was down to the England team getting a rapid turnover and spreading it out wide very quickly. All Ashton had to do was really run and get lucky with the last defender, which he did.

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cal April 17, 2011 3:49 pm

"We don't mind a bit of a banter, especially when no one is penalised for punching/ eye gouging etc..."

I agree.

Regardless of who the players are, it's nice to see a bit of a man-on-man competition throughout a match. A winger on a winger, a flanker on a flanker, etc. Or even a good ol' Josh Lewsey on Mat Rogers.

I'd have to say that I guess Ashton came out on top this time around...though that was a pretty good read by Bobo on the tackle.

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Nathan April 17, 2011 4:06 pm

I actually see nothing wrong with what Ashton did. I just think some people are jumping on the hate Ashton bandwagon.

That's the best way to get back at any opposition, by scoring a try. Rather see that than teams just going for constant big hits.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 4:25 pm

JAMIE, you're chat is plain rubbish. Is that why that certain pitch length try was awarded IRPA try of the year!? it's alright, i'm sure they'll get you on the panel next time, you sound like you're much more knowledgeable.. / knobledgeable.

I like the on pitch banter, it's good for getting the players passion up, leads to a better game, as long as it's kept as banter - which it was on this occasion. Nice hit from Bobo. Also Ashton is first class, i'd admire his game no-matter what nation he played for.
Phil

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 4:33 pm

Good job Phil, but you sort of missed the point. I didn't say it was a poor try. I was commenting on Ashton's role in the try. The try was made by English forwards combined effort and Youngs' and Lawes' quick thinking and quick hands. Ashton just needed pace and luck to finish it.

Try and respond to what I write, not what you think I wrote because you don't like what I'm saying about that try / Ashton.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 4:34 pm

personally i am not a fan of ashton because of his cockiness. i am always an advocate of humility. i won't discuss his abilities as a player but he should change his attitude seeing that all it takes is for some bad luck and hes hit with a long term injury which can change everything in that moment. cockiness and confidence is not the same thing and the sooner he learns that, the better a player he will be

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Little Chief April 17, 2011 4:39 pm

even an old woman can score a try like ashton did in this clip, simply catch the ball and put it on the floor. i just can't understand why people said he came out on top this time. ridiculous and pathetic

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 4:41 pm

You sound pretty ridiculous and pathetic little chief

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Cheis April 17, 2011 4:45 pm

ashton = douche

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 4:49 pm

Very clever response Little Chief. Takes real intelligence to come up with something like that. Only an idiot would be able to unravel my point using logic / rationale.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 5:04 pm

JAMIE responses like those ones are just acknowldgements that youre right

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King April 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Jamie you cannot honestly think Ashton not very good??

Is it more that you don't like him and wish he wasn't very good?

I thought so

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Anrowa April 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Bobo got under Ashtons skin, not the other way around. Big hit - love it. Bobo had a smile on his face. Ashton's fingering at the end was uncultured and big headed. The team made the try, not him. In my books Bobo: 1; Ashton: 0.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 6:54 pm

Agree with JAMIE. Ashton is so overrated and hyped by the British media. All he does is support, catch, run and do that faggy football celebration swan dive. And he will be exposed for an average player in the WC. Arrogant cunt. Bobo is the real man, who has a smile on his face

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Elliot April 17, 2011 6:59 pm

I think JAMIE is boring...

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Michael April 17, 2011 7:08 pm

If anything, my view of Bobo has been soured by this clip a little. A good defensive read doesn't qualify anyone to behave like that. If Ashton had simply walked back to halfway following his score, this could so easily have been a friday funny about how to make a muppet of yourself on the part of Bobo. If you royally smash someone, it can wind up the opposition more by simply walking away in a blase manner. The way he reacted to what was a good, but fairly mundane, tackle makes me think thats as good a hit as he delivers! But on the whole, this whole exchange is a bit too soccer-ish for me, good win for Saints though and I think Newcastle have got enough grit to see them safe.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 7:16 pm

Ashtons try to game ratio is outstanding. Has he always played inferior opposition? After coming through ND1 hee took time to adapt to the prem, then made a goo transition to the international stage.

saying he's just quick and good at support running, is vastly oversimplifying his game, but is also accurate: HE'S A WINGER! Thats what he is meant to do!

You can take or leave his attitude, but you cannot dismiss his game. The facts speak for themselves so far, and history is the true judge.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 7:21 pm

Ah Chris....well done...your TEAM created an overlap and you take all the glory and mock an individual from the opposition who was busy defending elsewhere.

You are a true, noble sportsperson. We all love you.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 7:22 pm

Bobo is a clowns name isn't it?
It was a good tackle but not really what I would call a hit, ashton got staight up, but by newcastles reaction you'd think he'd been cut in half!

Courtney lawes is a man who can hit, smashes the player and doesnt even give a second glance, straight back into the game.

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 7:33 pm

Actually King

I thought he was fantastic after the Italy match. I was raving about him for the week. I put him on my 6N fantasy team. I loved the fact that he defied Johnson as well and kept on with the swan dive. Then he started playing tougher opposition... and I also began to watch him in the Premiership and thought his attitude was unnecessary. I wouldn't mind his attitude as much if was truly world class, but he isn't. As I said, he just had a different style of play which needed a bit of examination.

And you're meant to wait until you have proven yourself correct before you say something like "I thought so". Even then, it's a bit childish mate. I'm sorry that you and others don't like my opposing views on Ashton and I apologise for not jumping on the bandwagon.

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Juugernauter April 17, 2011 8:06 pm

Fair play, JAMIE...

Ashton is cocky, nobody can deny that. Don't forget Girvan Dempsey scored 3 (or 4?) tries against Italy. Does that make him world-class? Not at all.

And mate, he'll get exposed in the World Cup no doubt. The georgians and romanians will target him in the pool stages and God forbid he comes across NZ, the aussies (as said before, I think his 80 mt try at Twickers was more of a great effort by Courtney Lawes than one by himself)or the saffers.

Take Lawes, for example. Quiet, hard working, talented. Soon to be world class, you can bet.

If Ashton leaves the cockiness in the changing room, then respect to him. If not, well, he should get prepared to be humilliated, most probably sooner than later, by real players.

Cheers

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CHAPPIE April 17, 2011 8:18 pm

Did the ref deem that a forward pass?????!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Andrew April 17, 2011 8:29 pm

I'd be embarressed if Ashton was Irish with the way he carries on ...

... Mind you he wouldn't get within a sniff of the Irish team if was Irish so I guess that would solve that problem

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Colombes April 17, 2011 8:53 pm

More i watch Ashton, more i am embarassed by him.

i thought that after having done is own publicity with swan dives or arrogant comments in newspapers, he would have been calm down by johnno or partners...
Seems that he prefers to behave like a twat :)

Shame because i'm sure he has some qualities, but he forget that rugby is collective and not a one-man show.
Take your tackle, score tries but hide yourself through ur team buddy, nobody is above the team

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 9:25 pm

All in all though, not nice to see on a rugby pitch - they should keep this attitude crap for Americans and their big-ego (small ****) sports.
.......

You're joking right? Individual rivalry has been in rugby forever. If anything it's died down in the professional era.

There's nothing American about it. It's what Rugby is about and it's awesome.

Honestly if some of you people were running the game it would be on a life support machine. Lighten up and have some fun. They probably had a couple cold ones together post-game.

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Cosmic April 17, 2011 9:30 pm

Again though we see the hypocrisy and self-justifying fallacies in the rugby community.

Now we're finding out that giving some to your opposite man after a big tackle, scuffle or try is bad sportsmanship and just Yanky nonsense and something to be frowned upon.

But everyone claps vigorously when the front row do the same before and after scrums!

This idea that one is acceptable while the other is inherently low-class and bad is just asinine and outright crazy. You can't put the hypocrisy and flawed reasoning into words, atleast not to do it justice.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 9:36 pm

go back to rugby league Mr Ashton. Behaviour like that is suited to rooby league

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 9:59 pm

JAMIE

By thinking four tries in that match against Italy made him amazing you've said more about your own analysis of rugby than needed to be said.

Armchair fan.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 9:59 pm

JAMIE

By thinking four tries in that match against Italy made him amazing you've said more about your own analysis of rugby than needed to be said.

Armchair fan.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 10:38 pm

I agree, chris ashton is an overrated arrogent wanker twat

I loved watching Bobo smash him, made me sad to seem him score the winning try though.

Ashton, Englands man of 2011, lets see if he can even make their WC squad.

Shit kickers

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 10:45 pm

Chris Ashton is an absolute cock - thanks a lot for removing my comment the 1st time RD..

I thought I'd re-post it just to remind everyone that he is indeed a massive knob.

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JAMIE April 17, 2011 11:04 pm

"JAMIE

By thinking four tries in that match against Italy made him amazing you've said more about your own analysis of rugby than needed to be said.

Armchair fan."

How so? I saw him in action for only the fourth time (I don't watch Premiership for reasons most SH fans would agree with) and liked the attitude displayed (bold and passionate) over those 4 matches and his performances over those 4 matches. His true attitude came to light over time and it was revealed that his style of play is different, but one-dimensional.

I was referring to his interview post match when I said he was fantastic (as was that performance). Perhaps I should have clarified. He hadn't got such an inflated ego at that stage.

Are you signing off as armchair fan by the way? That's exactly what this part of the website is for anyway.

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 11:15 pm

So so so bored of people questioning whether a professional rugby player, let alone an international one is any good. The idea that we know better than people who do this for a living and are at the top of the sport.

Why is it not possible for people just to enjoy the game, instead of... I am from SH so must down NH teams/players all the time (or visa a versa)

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Anonymous April 17, 2011 11:38 pm

Agree with above, does everyone outside of the UK really think that all English rugby fans think the same as the rubbish that is printed in the media.

Doubt any English fan really believes we are going to win the world cup but happy we are going in a positive direction.

Plus this is a video about two wingers having a go at each other. BE nice for a change for the comments to stay on topic instead of always go off to Sh and NH etc....

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 12:32 am

I've a better idea, how about we just give NZ the world cup, they'll obviously win, so lets not go and just let them have it... Then we can see how much revenue they all miss out on from our 'shit' rugby.

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Samuel Taylor April 18, 2011 1:14 am

What I like about this is that, sure they had a scuffle but then they deal with it on the pitch. They both buck up like true rugby players, Bobo says hey why dont I just do a good legal hit on you instead of all this funny business, and Ashton shows his case on the score board. I'd like to see more players follow their disputes in legal ways on the pitch. Its muh more enjoyable to watch.
Great hit, great try.

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 1:49 am

Bobo owned him. Owned by a quota. Scoring an overlap try means nothing, it wasn't Bobo's fault.

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TheFuzz April 18, 2011 5:46 am

Ha ha! Great smash, thoroughly deserved.

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Douche April 18, 2011 6:52 am

"Chris Ashton is an absolute cock - thanks a lot for removing my comment the 1st time RD..

I thought I'd re-post it just to remind everyone that he is indeed a massive knob."

Irony.

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daveholt17 April 18, 2011 7:57 am

Just wondering what people are trying to imply by "one dimensional", just look back at the "great" wingers of all time, case in point, Jonah Lomu, the guy had no kicking game but did have pace and size. rococoko also a great example, perhaps one of the best wingers of the last 10 years, and he still tracks about as well as Ashton does. I admist Ashton is not a complete player yet, but at 23, already having shown raw pace, a defensive ability and a good understanding with Foden at fullback, I think its unfair to call him "one dimensional". In that instance, the fact that the referee punished Bobo for the tackle says it all, if you cant tackle hard and fair, expect some comeback if the player who you hit shows you up later.

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Little Chief April 18, 2011 8:14 am

daveholt17
the ref didn't punished Bobo for the tackle. it was forward pass. watch the clip again.

yes Ashton is a very good player. one of the best winger in NH I think. but I don't think he came out on top this time.

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Aymeric April 18, 2011 8:15 am

Ashton is a very good winger, and I guess his cockiness is part of his game in some ways.
But I can't help notice that he gets very quiet against stronger opposition (New-Zealand, South Africa, France, Ireland.. Australia being the exception). I even remember him get smashed by Vincent Clerc more than once during the 6 nations game against France (not exactly the "Jonah Lomu" kind of winger...).
I think he still needs to grow up both on his attitude and technically but he's already a damn threat for England.

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Gareth April 18, 2011 8:17 am

hm... i just don't understand ashton reaction on his try, as Bobo wasn't involved in the action.

pure frustration and immaturity. it even make smile bobo!)

pity, because Ashton stupid behaviour will make him a huge target for hard or spear tackles durin the rwc

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moddeur April 18, 2011 8:34 am

In the last VI nations, whenever England played I would SMS my younger brother the following message: "Chris Ashton is a twat".

But I heard the man once off-camera and think he's a funny, loveable person.

Criticising a player for his attitude on the field rather than for his play, is a sure way of confirming that he deserves recognition.
So Chris Ashton may be a twat, he's nevertheless on the way to becoming a very good winger.

About the swan dives, I tried a smothered one during practice at a friendly sevens tournament this weekend, and I've got to say it hurts a bit. It's definitely not for the faint of heart. It may look cocky, but it's sort of an athletic way of scoring a try.

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 9:06 am

Him being smashed was easily his best swan dive.

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 9:16 am

Sweet tackle. Cut him in two.

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 11:10 am

I think his on-pitch cockyness is why he's so hungry for the tryline, and why he'd put in that extra 10%. 2 wingers on any team with that drive would not be a bad thing! Off the pitch he seems like a top bloke. He has been a bit quieter in games recently, hope he finds it again for the WC. Can't wait.

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 11:41 am

He can't have been hit that hard as he got straight back and he did come out on top because he scored the try that won his team the game at the end, regardless of his role in it. If all these anti-english people had some decent rugby ability of their own, I'm sure they wouldn't get so wound up by a young and talented winger. It's pretty patheic when people call him a cock or say it's embarrassing considering the amount of other people that do similar dives. No one cared when Cohen used to do it.

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Mike April 18, 2011 11:54 am

Ashton is a good player, but I think his behaviour is more at home on a soccer pitch.

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No.7 April 18, 2011 12:04 pm

I sort of resent his cockiness..I was particular against SA fans and their cockiness and in my eyes this is exactly what his cockiness is like.... It's just setting him up for a fall.

That being said, look at bakkies Botha, real arse on the pitch, but a great guy and family man off the pitch... And in some ways ashton seems like an alright guy off the pitch.

As a player I feel he is quite good at such a young age, however this try was nothing special from him!

I think those calling him a bad player are lost causes. At the end of the day this guy has more caps than you do.... What makes a great winger in your opinion? I'm pretty sure we all decided Lomu wouldn't be all that great on the wing this day an age, every back is bigger now and they would close him down. So what makes a good winger? With Ashton I see:
Great awareness
Good handling
Speed
Agility

Now if a player doesn't have those why put him on the wing?!? Id say he us a good player but needs to tone down his cockiness... I mean ROG had a scuffle with him, and if a man built like a daisy is not scared of you then maybe you calm it.... Or perhaps that's the rugby league poking through....

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JAMIE April 18, 2011 12:28 pm

Lomu and Rococoko may also be one dimensional. The difference between them and Ashton is that they have proved themselves against top quality opposition regularly.

And No.7 Whether or not he has more caps than me doesn't really matter. I never said r implied I was better than him and having less caps than him doesn't make me unable to analyse how he plays.

And if I were to list some characteristics of a good winger, the ones you mentioned would be included as well as the ability to defend well. Most modern day wings have those qualities. The main difference between most wingers and Ashton is that Ashton has a completely unconventional style of play. Once his style of play had been examined, those characteristics could be dealt with in the same ways in which they are normally dealt with for any winger. Anyway, Ashton may have shown these characteristics in the Premiership and against Italy, but he didn't show them against NZ or Ireland. He didn't even show it against some of the poorer 6N teams.

I'm not saying that he has no potential or that he is a bad player, I am simply saying that he is very much overrated and has yet to truly prove himself as good as he has been made out to be.

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Ronan April 18, 2011 12:47 pm

ashtons a complete cock....
does nothing for the game of rugby,
hes his own worst enemy and will be targeted on the pitch for this.
grow up man.....

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No.7 April 18, 2011 2:16 pm

Jamie that list was merely off the top of my head, apologies for not including a very obvious 'defence' in there....a wing without defensive abilities...well we'll leave that there..

Ashton I believe has all the makings of a great wing, he has what i said in my previous comment and defence (i missed that out...)

You say he is yet to prove himself...

I dont recall much of the autumn internationals however i do remember his try against australia being posted which i thought was a pretty good try...

Scoring against italy shouldnt be snubbed, however i agree it does not prove the makings of a fantastic player...

HOWEVER, if you look at the other games. You say he didnt perform against Ireland...I'd like to ask: 'who in the England team did perform against Ireland?'
In that game I saw the Irish enjoying themselves... they had nothing really to lose (other than respect, pride etc)..

I suppose my point is, a winger is stuck right out on the end of the line, therefore if a team does not perform well, it is very unlikely a winger will stand up and be noticed... It comes with positioning on the field...

Ashton has been on the international scene for a year? idk... now Lomu was an exception, he played in the era Amateur-professional rugby...where it was a sort of half/half sport...the other backs were generally slight and quick...no match for a huge guy like lomu... however in this day an age it is unlikely that one player will have such a huge impact on a field unless it is tactical (kicking, right place right time, etc)

I think Ashton was hyped up by the British media more than the fans or anyone that knows something...

All that said, i'd love to see him get SMASHED by a big samoan or something in the WC

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 2:40 pm

Jamie don't you have anything better to do?
Ronan why don't you worry a bit less about Ashton and a bit more about your economy.

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rosh April 18, 2011 3:24 pm

bobo was talking to someone on the pitchside who abusing him, ashton pushes him even though bobo wasn't talking to him.
1.what does bob do, just moves back smilling.
2.he then he ashton like a steam train and just moves back smiling.
3. ashton scores a bog standard try and goes and confront bobo. what a loser

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Seriously April 18, 2011 4:04 pm

The pettiness of some of the quotes on this thread are unreal. Thought this was a thread for rugby fans not haters..

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 4:12 pm

Rosh if you genuinely believe that you are deluded

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JAMIE April 18, 2011 5:46 pm

Regarding his try vs. Australia, I have already discussed that above. In short, the try was made by the team and any fast winger could have scored it.

He didn't perform particularly well after the Italy match (vs. FRA, SCO & IRE). I'm not just talking about that one match. And Ashton does not stay at the end of the line. He comes into the middle behind the main line and tries to burst through. That's one of the main aspects of his play.


And anon. below: Slipped disc. been on my back for a week. Also what's wrong with my economy? I'm not Irish if that's what you're assuming. I'm guessing you're English. Did you make the comment about their economy because you know when it comes to rugby you have no legs to stand on against Ireland? Pathetic mate.

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I hate ppl who write April 18, 2011 7:56 pm

@Jamie, I don't want to get into the type of argument I've been reading on this thread, but I will say as someone who's played for almost 17yrs, that when you have a back that has the balls to go for it and the skill to make it look easy than you have a very good player that's great to play alongside. It gives you the confidence to just work the ball out to him.
The decisions that you flippantly refer to as "just" pace and the "luck" involved in deciding the running line are actually intelligent rugby decisions and not as easy as they look. He put Mitchell on the wrong foot, timed his acceleration perfectly and had the legs and the balls to finish it. Why any rugby fan would undermine that is beyond me. It's not like an easy pot shot in soccer, it was a series of little things. 9/10 wingers would probably have kicked ahead from the position he found himself in.

Regarding finding yourself in the right position, that's also a skill in itself.

With all the chat about him being cocky he ended up trying to prove the opposite against Scotland and threw a pass instead of going for the line. Let the kid play I say.


To all the couch potatoes out there, the guy would not be playing for the saints and england if he was an "average" player, he's scored 9 tries in 10 games, get over yourselves and separate personal feelings from objective criticism.

As far as celebrations go, I find Shane Williams hand over the eyebrows "looking for defenders" twice as cocky myself.

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I hate ppl who write April 18, 2011 7:59 pm

*9 international tries ^^^

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Anonymous April 18, 2011 8:07 pm

Nice hit by Bobo. Ashton is a good player his game will come on in the future, but those swan dives are a bit much. I seen him doing one for his club after the 6n and thought enough with the dives already! He should focus on the rugby and not being a tit. Look at BOD for instance, record 6n try scorer and how many swan dives?..........exactly.

Tom

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trololololololololbo April 18, 2011 8:30 pm

agree wit jamie. hasnt made it look easy against good opposition. ok being in the right position is a skill and it's what Ashton does best but good teams can remove opportunities to be in these positions by defending well. not really sure what you're referring to regarding the Scotland match. he passed to Foden when Paterson made that try saving takle but he was no where near the line and had a Scottish player in front of him and he wasnt ivolved in England's try. Take a look at the tries in the Italy match - 2 on 1 and Flood passes to ashtno for an easy run in, Hape bashes through the line and offloads to Ashton 2 metres from the line, banahan runs half the field up the wing and offloads to Ashton who had nobody in front of him, Banahan makes it just short of the line and Ashton picks the ball up and places it with the Italian defense line in pieces. point is, Ashton benefits from the good work of his team mates. he wouldn't have had to be a world class winger to score those tries. he just had to be at the right place at the right time which as you said is a skill, but it doesnt make you a great winger

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Benny April 18, 2011 9:17 pm

Can we just let the Ashton vs. Mitchell try go already? I'm a saffa, neutral in this regard, but everyone knows Mitchell is one of the slowest wings at the top level. A faster wing with that much pace HAD to beat Mitchell in that situation.

But Mitchell is on white-hot form right now, proving that pace is great but it is the WHOLE package that counts. Mitchell not having a cocky attitude does not seem to ruin his ability as great winger. He's just a bloke who scores every game (it seems).

OK, showing us his tattoo'ed arse was uncalled for, I admit, but he's an ozzie (they're all a bit weird).
I would definitely pick Mitchell over Ashton.

Plus, JP and Habana's swan dives embarress me. Give me Gerhard Van Der Heever's non-celebration after scoring that awesome try for the bulls. Mitchell would also make me proud.

Maybe Ashton will grow up as well.

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Benny April 18, 2011 9:22 pm

Err... yes, Shane Williams should not do the "where's the defenders" thing. He's a freaken living legend and it is really beneath him. Leave that crap for the little guys who still need to convince us their any good.
But prodding someone and laughing in their face after scoring a try is obviously worse, come on! Have a look again, it was ridiculous!

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Northampton for HC April 18, 2011 9:56 pm

Fair fucks to Bobo. Didn't react when provoked and got him back within the laws of the game. Shame about Ashton's reaction at the end. All he did was catch the ball and put it down. Nothing spectacular. Its pathetic seeking out Bobo again and provoking him. Very very cheap move ashton. I'm embarassed as a lifelong Northampton supporter.

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No.7 April 18, 2011 10:51 pm

'As far as celebrations go, I find Shane Williams hand over the eyebrows "looking for defenders" twice as cocky myself.'

Im not a fan of Ashton's cockiness but Shanes is far worse imo...

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Rowan DeBues April 19, 2011 3:19 am

Ah... I think both Bobo and Ashton would be pissing themselves laughing at how many people on here got their knickers in a twist over this.

Please people, we have a world with a billion starving people, global warming and a struggling global economy. If you all put half as much effort into solving those things as you do into arguing with one another we'd have utopia in a couple of days no problem.

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Rowan DeBues April 19, 2011 3:21 am

Arguing with one another over an AVIVA PREMIERSHIP MATCH involving the bottom team as well... C'mon. Can't we argue about food poisoning at least?

I kid, but do you see my point? Lets have some friendly banter, none of this "Ashton is a cocky prick" kinda deal.

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 5:54 am

Ashton really is a first class douche bag and most like douches, just struts around thinking everyone loves him. Kudos to the Samoan who smashes him hard in the WC.

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 7:26 am

Ashton is a world class wing.

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kay April 19, 2011 7:55 am

that's why we do it here rowan. do you think we all argue about this and get into fights with our friends, etc. ? obviously not.fuck me you are an idiot

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 9:10 am

Ashton is not a world class wing.

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Alanoneill1 April 19, 2011 9:11 am

Chris Ashton is a great player, but he often lets himself down with his behaviour. Mallinder didn't look impressed with his taunting Bobo after scoring the try.

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 9:55 am

Ashton is the best wing in the Northern Hemisphere.

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 10:36 am

shut up jamie you wanker

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 11:14 am

I love the fact that everyone seems to be having a pop at Jamie because he has an opinion! I personally think that Chris Ashton is a good player, nothing more than that a the moment, not world class, not even a great player, he has a lot to learn and may well become a top player in years to come but all he has at the moment is a lot of pace and reads the game well, granted he has a great strike rate, but he hasn't got a very good skill set, doesn't actually create anything such as Jonah Lomu, Shane Williams, even James Simpson-Daniel, and I really question his temperament looking at the evidence such as this game.

Also, I definately don't think his try against Aus was anything spectacular on his part, I remember Nigel Walker running a 90m try against Aus & NZ, and he definately wasn't world class!

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 12:02 pm

There has never been a world class winger apart from Jonah Lomu. That ends this pathetic little argument. Jamie, you have way too much time on your hands and well Ashton is good as he was good enough to burn a near world class winger in Drew Mitchell so he cant be that bad right? I also see you are from the Southern Hemisphere considering your lack of support for English rugby. Well all I can say is if your from New Zealand, you may have good players but at the end of the day, you dont win world cups except for 1987.. if your Australian, you are the single most over rated team in the world, your performance against England home and away was shocking...and if your South African your a team in complete disarray, your an ageing team with only a few decent young players coming through the ranks i.e. Patrick Lambie. England are slowly creeping up behind you SH countries and i wouldnt be surprised if we won the world cup this year.

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James April 19, 2011 2:07 pm

Jamie is entitled to his opinion. I actually enjoyed the little rivalry displayed in the game between the two but on the whole ashton needs to control his cockiness. he is consistently in the right place at the right time as a winger and has the POTENTIAL to become great having made a much better start than most do to their international career. I was impressed with his performance IN australia and against wales so i say goodluck to him

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 2:56 pm

I think James and JAMIE are the same person...and that anonymous who backs JAMIE

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Andymo April 19, 2011 3:20 pm

Lol, after hearing RD complain about the negative comments in this thread I immediately thought they would all be about Bobo's days as a racial quota player in his Saffer playing days.

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JAMIE April 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Anon saying all those people are me: not a single person has been able to disprove what I have said about Ashton. I am doing a good enough job of arguing my points without the need to make supporting posts under different names.


"There has never been a world class winger apart from Jonah Lomu. That ends this pathetic little argument. Jamie, you have way too much time on your hands and well Ashton is good as he was good enough to burn a near world class winger in Drew Mitchell so he cant be that bad right? I also see you are from the Southern Hemisphere considering your lack of support for English rugby. Well all I can say is if your from New Zealand, you may have good players but at the end of the day, you dont win world cups except for 1987.. if your Australian, you are the single most over rated team in the world, your performance against England home and away was shocking...and if your South African your a team in complete disarray, your an ageing team with only a few decent young players coming through the ranks i.e. Patrick Lambie. England are slowly creeping up behind you SH countries and i wouldnt be surprised if we won the world cup this year."

Unfortunately I do have too much time right now. I wish I didn't. I already said that I did and why. And nobody said Ashton was as good as Lomu or that Lomu wasn't world class (to be honest I'm not even sure what you're point is here). There was no argument at all about that.

The break down of how he beat Mitchell is somewhere above. Use search. It didn't really matter which rugby player it was, they were going to get beaten.

I am from the Northern Hemisphere. I have no connections at all to the Southern Hemisphere. England is not the only country that plays rugby in the Northern Hemisphere and it is probably the most unpopular (or at least people like to see England lose the most). A lack of support for England does not mean that someone is from the Southern Hemisphere.


So, try reading what I write (or at least read more carefully) and stop trying to be smart and make assumptions.

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 5:24 pm

fuck off jamie, bigger faggot than george w. bush. ashtons class

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Sam April 19, 2011 5:26 pm

JAMIE you are running on onto the pitch wearing an England shirt to prove yourself against South Africa aren't you?

Good man I'm looking forward to it, I take it you're a bit older than Ashton right? I mean, you must be, we've seen inexperienced 23 year old Ashton playing against some far more experience players and wrong footing them to score against them, (Referring to the Australian try there) but as you said, that is easy for any winger to do!

I look forward to it man, don't leave us in suspense, I want some denting of the opposition straight away!!



Basically towelie, what im trying to say is, we saw in the Autumn internationals a VERY strong NZ team beat a young inexperienced English team by 10 points!!! now im not saying England would have won or w/e im merely saying INTERNATIONALS never yield the greatest 'champagne' rugby, or high scoring rugby if the teams are of a similar calibre...so the point is ofcourse Ashton is not going to pull out another hat trick against France or ireland, but how many times did someone blitz passed him in any of the 6N? or get the better of him defensively?

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JAMIE April 19, 2011 6:26 pm

Does trying to insult me make my points incorrect? Don't think so mate. You just know I'm right.

I can't remember any specific examples but I watched a replay of the Eng vs. Ire match a week ago because I missed it. He was caught out of position a few times so balls were kicked behind successfully him quite a bit and Sexton (of all people) also stepped him causing him to high tackle and cost England 3 points. Anyway, I'm not going to dissect every bit of his play in all the matches. He wasn't bad in defense, but he wasn't great. I do remember him being outpaced, smashed out of the way and caught out position numerous times against New Zealand as well, man on man (except he was playing opposite some genuinely quality players).

Point is (if I hadn't said it enough already) he's not as great as he's made out to be. His standout tries were created by his team and were against poor opposition (except Australia, this was poor defending, Mitchell made his choice too late and all that was needed was pace after that). Against good opposition, he been average.


Slightly off topic, but England were lucky to be allowed one of their tries vs. New Zealand. Remember one player was about 3 metres offside, Hartley's double movement, etc.

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Sam April 19, 2011 8:26 pm

JAMIE i grow weary of your comments...

I see what you're trying to say, but Chris Ashton has played for England in all the 6N? thats 5 matches and all the autumn internationals?!? 4 matchs?
so thats 9 matches at 23-24 years old...

Now bearing in mind nobody has hyped him up as much as the british media, i'd say he has done himself proud (other than being a bit of a knob) Now your ability to judge a player who played pretty well in most of the 6N matches (his first 6N tournament ever?) is impressive..

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JAMIE April 19, 2011 10:07 pm

I imagine so, because I just pointed out the problem with every point you made. I grow tired of yours as well... and it only took 2 of them.

I'm pretty sure Ashton has played all of those 9 matches. That is 12 hours of play as well as the time he has played in the Premiership on which he could be judged. I think that is more than enough. I'm not saying my judgement is amazing (although, I have watched rugby for a number of years now on a regular basis so it is reasonably good), but I take everything into consideration (such as the quality of opposition, role of team mates in tries, etc.) unlike many here.

And yes, he has done himself proud by making the English team. That is an honour, but it does not make him a great player.

He is not a great player. He may well be in time, but right now, he is not right now. This is my point. Don't miss it.

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Sam April 19, 2011 10:28 pm

JAMIE i know what your point is, but i dont understand why you are making it?!?!

I already said the only person(s) to hype him up is the british media... everyone else has been pretty 'well lets wait and see.' at the end of the day im usually off at SH fans to hold their tongues before a test match or the autumns because it may end up with them eating humble pie...

I think the majority of England fans are pretty quiet and are just seeing where things are going..no one is saying Ashton is the next Lomu or Rokococo who is a tad older that him...

As for you judging him in premiership, i already said, premiership rugby is nothing compared to internationals...

Watch the Super 15 watch premiership games...try's being scored, big runs, obvious names...

international matches, as i said, NZ beat england by 10 points... that is NOTHING in a game of rugby... it is far from a comfortable position...so how does a team as talented as NZ only beat england by 10 points...its due to the fact that at international level the game normally becomes evenly match...so rather than in club rugby you could have a team like munster or leinster made up of mostly ireland internationals against a fairly poor team and demolish them you have two fairly evenly matched teams in terms of best of their country. Teams read up on opposition, you give NZ a small gap and they score...therefore England closed all gaps...

So like im saying Ashton is part of that and you can only judge his international ability on his international games... and you said yourself you didnt see all of them..

So really what is your point? A 23 year old who was a very good league player comes on the scene in 2010 and learns the ropes, gets hoiked into the international team because of his abilities (which he needs to define more so) and you say he is not a great player... well no shit, he's been given a fart of a chance to shine... and not exactly been given a great chance by the way the team has gelled...

So the next new player on the scene we are all supposed to say 'hes not a great player'.. who is a great player? because I cant think of a single team which has 15 great players in it... look at the 2003 England team, were all 15 great?! not in my opinion. Look at 2007 SA team, all great?!? nope... I can name a large amount of 'greats' in those teams...but the rest are "good players"

Personally i think ashton runs great lines, he tackles well and his handling is good.... that makes him a "good player"

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Anonymous April 19, 2011 11:15 pm

Love to see Ashton get smashed any day!!

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JAMIE April 20, 2011 12:19 am

Why are my posts not showing?

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JAMIE April 20, 2011 12:23 am

OK, why are they being removed?

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:52 am

Read the responses above. It is not just the media hyping him up... And I'm not sure if you think I'm from the SH or not, but I am not. Also, I didn't say that anyone was saying he was the next Lomu or Rokococo. You're either misreading what I say or disregarding it and making your own points up...

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:53 am

I said 12 hours of internationals (I have watched all 12, I missed one and watched it later). The time in the Premiership is just a bit extra to judge him on. I've already mentioned the quality of the Premiership above though... Regarding the NZ match: I'm talking about Ashton, not the entire England squad and their performance against NZ. You asked about his defensive performance and I gave that match and the Ireland match as examples.

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:53 am

My point is exactly what I wrote above: "Point is (if I hadn't said it enough already) he's not as great as he's made out to be. His standout tries were created by his team and were against poor opposition (except Australia, this was poor defending, Mitchell made his choice too late and all that was needed was pace after that). Against good opposition, he has been average." and "He is not a great player. He may well be in time, but right now, he is not right now".

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:54 am

If there is a great new player, he'll have to show that he is great before he is called great. When he does that, then he should be called great. And why do you keep mentioning irrelevant shit. I'm not saying a whole team has to be great. I'm just talking about Chris Ashton (started playing union in 2007 for Northampton - it's been a while since he was learning the ropes).

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:54 am

If you're going to try and respond, can you at least respond to what I write and read what I did write properly and not miss the points being made? I never said I didn't watch the 12 internationals, I didn't say people are saying Ashton is the next Lomu or Rokococo, I gave an example of Ashton being beaten defensively when you asked I wasn't commenting on the Englsih team's performance (which by the way was quite good but Ashton's wasn't so good in offense or in defense because he was facing a good opposition for a change).

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 12:55 am

There seems to have been some technical problem... sorry about the paragraphs being spread into different posts.

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 5:28 am

Some of you guys are trolling something horrible

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Anonymous April 20, 2011 7:28 am

fairly hypocritical comment from rd considering the amount of stupid comments that are made in every post by usually the same people. You can't monitor and correctly interpret every comment and decide if it's just or not, hence why it's a debate. You put the posts up for debate and this is what happens. Not unless it extremely racist or discriminate, you won't do anything which is fine. That shows consistency.

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Sam April 20, 2011 2:18 pm

JAMIE my point is wtf are you on about....

No player is great without proving themselves...

And no one has claimed ashton is great....

I have not, my friends have not, my rugby club has not, in fact im not even sure that any RD fans have said he is great...

Everyone has said he is good and has great potential...APART from the british media, and people like austin healey!

so unless you and your friends are hyping him up, i dont understand where your bed ridden self gets this info from...the Sun perhaps?

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JAMIE April 20, 2011 4:03 pm

I said it was the British media who hyped him up at the start and many fans, including ones on RD (perhaps you haven't read the comments under videos including him recently), seem to accept their judgement on him.. That was the point (others seemed to have realised that). I didn't say anyone else hyped him up. The problem is, the British media have a huge audience. They have England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and even the Republic of Ireland to some degree) to broadcast to and give news to. That's a lot of people.

Again with the insults? Just shows you don't have legs to stand on mate. And it's funny you suggest that I'd read the sun when you've shown yourself to be unable to read or comprehend what I have written.

Come back when you've actually got something relevant to say.

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Steve April 20, 2011 9:36 pm

JAMIE is right, Ashton is so overhyped by the English media

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Sam April 20, 2011 11:36 pm

JAMIE, you said you were laid on your back...thats not an insult...

I was the one that said no one but the media hyped him up, and you told me it wasnt just the media....

Ashton is a good player but he alone will not guarantee an easy ride in the RWC...which is what the british media appear to say

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Anonymous April 21, 2011 12:07 am

sam you are retarded, please shutup

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Sam April 21, 2011 2:01 am

Wow great insult...try again...

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JAMIE April 21, 2011 12:32 pm

I'm done mate. I think you have a problem reading. Nothing more I can say that hasn't been said. No point flogging a dead horse.

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Sam April 21, 2011 3:53 pm

because your point is pointless....

Ashton is a good player...

Much like any other International player...

and is not great, much like most other international players...

so basically he is following the trend of almost every other winger on the international scene.... apart from Lomu....the only winger who i'd consider was a huge hit from day one....

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JAMIE April 21, 2011 5:25 pm

Hard luck mate.

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Anonymous April 21, 2011 9:46 pm

sam why would you call him bed ridden and say he got his info from the sun? nothin to do with your debate. deffo an attempt at insult just a shit one and he called you on it haha

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Anonymous April 22, 2011 12:53 am

Sam, your 'bed ridden' comment was clearly an insult. Crawl into the corner and never come back.

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Sam April 22, 2011 1:57 am

Why dont you use a name?!?

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sams boyfriend April 22, 2011 10:09 am

get in the corner i said

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Sam April 22, 2011 2:11 pm

Oh hey, missed you loads!... It's not your turn gimp, you are the subservient one

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sams girlfriend April 22, 2011 3:15 pm

i dont exist!!!

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Sam April 22, 2011 11:05 pm

^^^ Well duhh, i already just went along being gay, ofcourse i dont have a gf...

Geez...Trolls have no brain eh...

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Josh April 24, 2011 9:58 am

I don't see what all this fuss is about, great seeing bit of banter between players! seemed quite good humoured as well! I Think Ashton is going to be a brilliant player and at the moment is a really good player. When was the last time we saw an England Wing coming off and taking offloads like he does... and for the people saying all he does is run fast and get lucky... Im pretty sure thats all a winger needs! Lets hope he stays lucky! wingers are there to finish, and Ashton does it great! Although im a big fan was still great to see him smashed by Bobo because thats the reason we watch rugby, to see big hits and great tries! Cheers RB for providing these!

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Anonymous April 24, 2011 9:22 pm

I thought it was great to see Ashton getting smashed up everyone is saying how good he is but hes nothing compaired to wingers like Ioane or Mitchell or James O'Connor and all I hear on Sky Sports nowadays is how great he is...........nonsense he did nothing against England or France which shows he can be easilly stopped

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