Queensland Reds beat the Blues to head into Super Rugby final

Reds are the greatest.

And people who write "first' are queers.

haha yes they are

people who care about it care too much.
can't wait for the final! should be epic

Quade Cooper take a bow! that man makes carlos spencer look like a dehydrated Sicilian donkey. Dan Carter look out, this guys gunning for the top flyhalf spot. Shame he can't kick goals for shit. Lets hope he can deliver next week and end this sickly one-eyed Cantabrian love-in.

@ tom h - i didn't watch the full match, only the highlights but quade slotted some great kicks too!! sick player.

Can't understand Lachie Munro was starting instead of Rene Ranger... He threw the interception on the first try and missed the tackle on the second...

Incredible from Cooper. Completely bamboozles defences. Stepping, dummying and palming his way thru.

Ha! Even the cameraman was buying Cooper's dummies!

cooper...brillant

cooper is for the aussies everything that cipriani should have been for us. :( GOOD LUCK REDS!

Quade Cooper is a Kiwi!

Thats why he is so good...

He's been in Aus since he was 13 though.

Pity Cooper is a criminal...
Dunno why but he always looks pissed off and petulant, like he has just been told to go to his room by his parents or something. Personally still think Carter is a league ahead in terms of game control and most definitely kicking.

Cooper is good; my word he can step incredibly, however he has a long way to go before we can start saying "best in the world". If he can replicate his form year in year out like Carter has done then you can call him the best in the business.

But he had already developed all the skills and flair growing up in NZ.

Yeah, by 13 he was a fully developed professional player.
That makes heaps of sense.

That shows how much you know.

Everybody knows you develop your core skills in the first 13-15 years. After that its just gym and fitness...

hahaha, are you fuckin serious?
You think he hasn't learned any skills since he was 13? All he's been doing since then is gym and fitness?
So he has EXACTLY the sames skills now as he had when he was 13?
Seriously? Were you being sarcastic?

I knew you were gonna come at that bullshit angle (You know deep down what I mean, grow up).

I said 'core' skills, of course hes gonna learn more and improve, but the real talent has already been created in those early years.

C'mon, this is baby stuff.

Cooper said that Carlos Spencer has been his Rugby Idol since he was a kid.

I wonder if it reflects in his game???

What the fuck is wrong with quade cooper? this guy has a problem

I'm sorry oi oi oi, b ut what you are saying is ridiculous.
He may well have learnt all his basic skills by 13, but of course a massive amount has been learnt since then.
The guy is still learning new skills and abilites now.
He is getting better each season.

What you were saying was ridiculous.

oi oi oi. u sir are an idiot. I think your knowledge and skills have stopped developing at the age of 13.

^ clearly you must mean 13 months. Internet trolling is one of the first things the new iPod generation seems to learn.

oi oi oi

I see what you mean and I agree. Pity some of this crowd isn't intelligent enough to see you angle. Close minded of them.

and that was meant to say 'you're'

Yes Quade Cooper is a kiwi, but he does not have the character required to ever make an All Blacks side, rugby is more than just skill, which is why he has to play for Australia (no disrespect meant to aussie, I am still amazed they have taken him). There are a string of incidents including his run in with the law, his disrespect to opposition players (the incident with Ritchie McCaw comes to mind) to name only a couple, which highlight his character issues. I tend to think that the only reason he is playing for Australia is because their Kiwi coach insists on having him. I cannot imagine the likes of John O'Neil (Aus Rugby CEO) keeping him for any other reason.

Lachie Munro had a mare.. missed tackle, intercept and professional foul which gave away the pen and should have been a yellow.. for those who didn't see it Kaplan told Mealamu 'I've been lenient with your team to date, but it wont continue! What the fuck does that mean - I've been bending the rules for you most of the game?..

Who cares if QC had a run in with the law and a tiny handbags session with Richie (it was Bledisloe and Richie had kicked QC earlier in the game). Shouldn't we be proud that rugby seems to have turned him around?

JG, that's almost as whacky as oi oi oi's "He learnt everything he knows by the age of 13 when he was a kiwi and that's why he's good" theory.

To clarify, no doubt alot of Cooper's ability comes from his background in NZ, where he learnt the game as a child and was encouraged to play with skill and risk, traits found in alot of players in junior rugby in NZ.
But he then went thru years of age grade rugby in Australia, and was a part of the ARU's development pathway. He received alot of support and resources thru the Queensland rugby union and the Aus rugby unions, and played youth rugby for QLD for years (where he was actually second choice five eight behind Ben Lucas for many years), and played in a number of Aus rep squads. During that time he was helped and trained by many Australian coaches and provided significant assistance from the ARU. So it's ridiculous to suggest he learned his skills by 13, and everything after that was gym and fitness. In fact a huge part of his development as a dangerous attacking player came from his time as part of the Australian sevens program, which has great success in producing players like him and Genia.

He has really had one major discipline incident. He was involved with some dodgy people who commited a crime in Brisbane. It was a bad look, but since then he has committed to the ARU and QRU, and has repayed their faith and forgivness by not transgressing again, and producing some incredible form (ie, being a major part of Australia's rise to 2nd in the world and Qld's re-emergance as one of the top S15 sides, including topping the table this season and leading them to the final with some mesmerising play).

The thing with Mccaw is not considered a problem in Australia at all.
If anything alot of Aussies just thought it was funny.
Sure it wasn't a smart move to give Mccaw a shove, but Mccaw had been a cheeky bastard that game (as no 7s often are) and had gotten under Cooper's skin.
Mccaw had kicked Cooper after |Cooper cleared him out of a ruck and stomped on Pocock's leg in a scrum, so he was hardly an angel in that game.

Anyway, it would be insanity to leave out probably the world's second best five eight (second behind the imperious Carter of course). But even Carter doesn't ahve the same bag of tricks as Cooper.

Regarding QC's heritage.. I suppose he learnt basic fundamentals as in passing, running, kicking etc (skipped tackling) in NZ. Then the fancy stuff (better agility and a lethal pass) in Aus, just because his passing and running style is very similar to JOC and Beale's..

Stephen Brett's defensive skills just don't exist. A large part of the Blue's weakness this year can be explained by having to carry him on defence, giving the opposition an effective overlap each time they run it.

The Reds have been fantastic this year. Some great players in there. Best of luck in the final.

And Richie also pulled a knife on him in that game also.

Read this, it might shed some light on the matter.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/5226570/Cousins-Maitland-Cooper-to-face-off-in-final

I do think it's been better for Cooper ending up in Oz re the international exposure, etc.

I heard to he was a big fan of Carlos Spencer until the 2003 World Cup when he he threw that intercept pass to mortlock which more or less sunk the ABs. Heard after that it sealed the deal in terms of being committed to Oz. Of course I can't currently back that all up, but hey.

"He has always had that sidestep even when we were kids," Maitland, whose father coached their rugby team, said.

Is this the east coast or the west coast final?

When are the northern conference A45 semi finals?

Dan Carter is a great guy, a talented kicker, a capable offloader, but he doesn't attack the line enough, he's a bit too "clean" for a flyhalf. Cooper seems to play a more complete form of rugby, a bit like Michalak in his glorious days.

Can't wait for the Tri Nations! As a European I'll watch it with a lot of interest, I don't think any European team stand a chance to win the WC.
I'm especially very impressed by the individual quality of the Aussies, their backline is Blitz!!! And Cooper is just amazing!

Reds are playing some good rugby
Who cares where QC got his skills, he plays for Aus now and that's that.
Also some reds boys could be pushing for Aus RWC squad, ie higginbotham in the back row and rod davies on the wing following drew mitchell's terrible injury

I'd love to see a high paced attacking game in the final against the crusaders, but who knows what we'll get, same. Thing as top14 might happen, ie two very attacking based teams ( Toulouse and Montpellier) just neutralized each other and the final was didn't reach the levels of play and intensity as expected

Reds are playing some good rugby
Who cares where QC got his skills, he plays for Aus now and that's that.
Also some reds boys could be pushing for Aus RWC squad, ie higginbotham in the back row and rod davies on the wing following drew mitchell's terrible injury

I'd love to see a high paced attacking game in the final against the crusaders, but who knows what we'll get, same. Thing as top14 might happen, ie two very attacking based teams ( Toulouse and Montpellier) just neutralized each other and the final was didn't reach the levels of play and intensity as expected

Quade is only 23...I think this may even be just his 3rd year of super rugby.

@oi oi oi lol.. sorry but I just watched the clip.. and I don't think any normal human being could learn and do what Quade Cooper just did by 13 years old?? lol.. just saying.. lol

Its just as well Cooper can't tackle otherwise he'd be the complete fly half. Really looking forward to watching him play in the WC

That Rod Davies looks a bit on the nippy side as well. Anyone know if he's likely to make the Wallabies team?

This game was damn amazing, the atmposphere in the stadium was electrifying... Quade Cooper is a class apart in terms of skills (doesn't matter where or when he developed them...) but it's true that he needs a bit more game awareness and goal kicking to be a potential wallaby legend.

Other players that definitely deserve international recognition are Davies, Robinson and Faingaa (although he's played before for the Wallabies).

The final is going to be a cracker. It's great to see that in Australia, a country with a massive amount of sports (aussie rules, league, football), rugby is making a name for itself. And with teams like these, why wouldn't it!

Fun fact, both Wallaby half backs where born abroad - Genia in Papua New Guinea (actually his brother plays for them) and Cooper in New Zealand.

Cheers

Crusaders will crush the reds

But what a poor defence...poorly timed rush defence on the second try of the 14, no defence at all on the third, one intercept...and Rokocoko wondering being at the beach...at least mentally!

If its an open match in the final its a 50/50 game. If its tight the Crusaders will win with ease.

The Reds have such a good counter attack its unreal but should be interesting to see if they can play well in the final! Crusaders are an experienced unit so *probably* wont let the pressure get to them.

Quade got the Maori step eg benji Marshall Carlos Spencer
Quade should leave union and carve up for the kiwi's with SBW !! Now that would be mean. Oi oi I know what you mean growing up in NZ steping is the first thing you learn!!

who did Cooper burn around 02:15?

Also, the decision to give Munro the nod ahead of Ranger... Well Pat I hope you learnt your lesson, Lachie threw a mindless pass skipping a couple of Blues backs who could have done some good damage and in response got intercepted by the excellent Rod Davies. And then Quade Cooper made him look childish. Ranger, instead, got to the pitch and started bouncing off tackles. Boy, what a difference he would have made if he started...

This is pretty average rugby. Judging by this sort of rugby hopeless rugby and the way the teams up here in the north have been playing, I've got to admit things are really looking up and I believe soon very soon the NH are going to dominate world rugby. just watch the HC games to see what I'm talking about.

If we're going to talk about pace and side-stepping ability, then I'd like to point out that alot of that is natural ability. Sometimes it's just in your genes. (but kiwis may want to stay off that subject:D)
You learn the basic structure of the game in your early yrs and 16 through to 19 are the key yrs where literally you seperate the men from the boys and ppl like Ben Franks who spent many school games on the bench pull through thanks to self improvement and work ethic.
If anyone is trying to say Cooper's only good cos he's a Kiwi, well I just think it's more childish ignorance more than anything. Nothing to do with an open mind at all.
There's a reason the U20 world cup was brought in, it's seen as a key age. Rugby changes constantly, the way the game was played when Cooper was 13 was very different to what it is now and as a fly half he would have started honing his tactical skills and effective use of space in his late teens, an age where many ppl such as Maitlands dad would refer to him as a "Kid" probably.
You've got the All Blacks, they are the best in the world regardless of WC, don't go exaggerating by trying to claim anyone who's passed through there. It's mental! You've got an U20 baby black who moved from Wales in 2007, who plays in the NZ style.
Anyone who's played the game will tell you that Rugby's a complete sport, mind and body, your game grows with you and your team affects your attitude, it's why the bond is so important. Nobody has learnt even a 10nth of what they need to know by the time they're 13...only a 13yr old would write something that ridiculous!

Cooper learnt his stuff copying Benji Marshall in the NRL - The End.

Just genes? What a load of poppy-cock.

Your argument is flawed anyway. If it was wouldn't his NZ genes be all behind it anyway? (not just passing through) If it is a more random genetic thing, shouldn't England or somewhere else have produced someone that steps like that?

Instead there are two high profile NZ-born and at least partially raised rugby players that step like that, Cooper & Benji Marshall, and fare few more that step like that at lower levels.

Comparing a 10 the guy to a prop is hardly relevant and no one is commenting on is tactical ability, it's his creativeness and ability to beat a man. The latter you first start working on playing bull rush in primary school. Admittedly some people don't start until late and do well, but not the case here.

Lets face it, he took his, and you can argue how limited or not this was but the kid could obviously step already (re above article), experience in NZ and went to Oz and built on that. Simple as that.

Tim you are talking out of your ass. You make lots of what appear to be reasonable points however there's nothing to back up anything you say.

Cooper, my god. magician

id rather have a Carter or Wilko to Quade Cooper or Michalak....

Fact!

Im a big All Balcks and Reds fan. I went off the hurricanes after the 2006 'fog final' they let me down one to many times haha. been supporting the Reds ever since. For those people who said Quade isint good enough for the Wallabies or could never make the All blacks. thats rubbish. Of course Carter would be chosen over him as a starting first 5. but do you think any other 1st 5 in NZ donald, brett, cruden, slade is better that Cooper cos your an idiot if you do. If cooper played in NZ I believe he would easily be Carters back up in the All Blacks. He starts for Australia who in my opionion have more talent at 1st 5 than Nz with the exception of Carter. If Cooper can start for the wallabies there is no reason why he couldnt make the AB's.

"This is pretty average rugby. Judging by this sort of rugby hopeless rugby and the way the teams up here in the north have been playing, I've got to admit things are really looking up and I believe soon very soon the NH are going to dominate world rugby. just watch the HC games to see what I'm talking about."

Self-delusion is a wonderful thing.

@ Oi, oi, oi

Quade coopers 13 yr old skills when he started at the reds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2irJE5zrzM&feature=feedrec_grec_index

Compare that to now.
Case closed

View Video

Every Maori i know can step like cooper and benji.

Tim 2. I'm not writing a thesis. Just commenting. If my points "appear reasonable", that, for me, is enough for a comments section. Take it or leave it.

BTW a lot of what I said can be backed up, I'm just not going to waste my time doing it.

"..then somewhere else should have produced steps like that.."
...well they have actually, the most glaring example would be Eng's Robinson, but the World 7's series will show you that there are great steppers all over the world, Kenya included. It's not an all-black exclusive.
The thing that generally keeps the AB's head and shoulders above the rest for me is there excellent running lines in support, not the ability to step.

in any case I said "alot of" not "all of"...there's a not so subtle difference there Tim.

Yeah ok, may be I took the genes thing and ran with it a little far. And by no means was I saying that great steppers are All Black or NZ exclusive, it was more that environmental factors do count a lot even at a young age (not saying it's just gym and fitness from then on of course...)
I played against Carter when he was 13, and I can tell you the kid was pretty good by that age already.

Maybe we can agree that QC would be a world class player no matter where he grew up, Aus or NZ.

Wouldn't swap Carter for him in any case. Good luck in the RWC. As an Irishman I think the final 8 would be the most we can hope for realistically. Aus should top the group which would see us face the Boks...and that will probably be that.

For those on this thread who think that the ability to step is purely a Kiwi trait, I can only think that you must all be about 15 years old

I'd suggest you get on the interweb and look up people like Phil Bennett, Gareth Edwards, David Duckham, Jason Robinson, etc, etc

Stepping is a grat rugby skill but its certainly not limited to any one nationality

To: I hate ppl who write "FIRST!"
Regarding your comment: "Wouldn't swap Carter for him [Cooper] in any case" - I would respectfully suggest that this comment alone discredits all of your previous contributions to this thread.

While I would admit that Cooper has had a superb Super 15, and he was simply sublime (note the alliteration in this sentence) with ball-in-hand in this match, even comparing Cooper with Carter is chalk and cheese, let alone stating that you would prefer Cooper over Carter as your starting first-five.

Much like Spencer (and I note the comparisons have been made already in this, and other threads), Cooper is a great ball runner, and at times can embarrass a team with his footwork, as shown as against the Blues. However, his conversion rate at spot-kicks, both penalties and conversions, is atrocious - this is both in the Super 15 this year, and also in the Tests that he has played to date. Likewise, his positional kicking in general broken play leaves a lot to be desired. If Cooper is given room, he can punish teams - but if he is pressured, as the All Blacks showed throughout the Trinations last year, and as I expect the Crusaders to do on the weekend, he crumbles, and will start making bad decisions.

I do not think I need to state the positive case for Carter, as the stats speak for themselves as to his kicking. However, and in addition, he is also a much better positional player than Cooper, and constantly gets the Crusaders out of trouble with his accuracy in kicking in general play.

I would even be so bold as to state that I prefer Dan Carter's running game to that of Cooper - Carter creates space and consistently makes the right decisions when electing to run/kick/pass. When he does run, he is a master of gliding through the line, and offloading to players outside - testament to this is the amount of tries that Carter has scored for the Crusaders and the ABs to date.

Finally, unlike Carter, Cooper is a defensive liability, and I would suggest he is the first person who Kieran Read shall be running at this Saturday.

I am not denying that Cooper may turn out to be the best first-five in the world (in which case, I will join those people who clamour "its because he is a NZer"!), but he is not there yet. In my opinion, he is far too inconsistent, and has yet to prove his skills on the big stage - in either the trinations or the other internationals.

Perhaps this weekend will be the start of me eating my words, but I am picking Crusaders to win, primarily by keeping him out of the game.

The thing with the SH fly halfs is that they are luck to be playing in good teams. If not you would see how ordinary they really are. Flood, wilko, O'gara, Jones all show there class week in week out with average teams.

Quade Cooper is immensely talented. Best stepper since shane williams and jason robinson before him. That poised, balanced running at 2.15 is a joy to behold...

shame he's a convict!

to Roadpig,
I was writing to a Kiwi, and just to clear any possible misunderstanding, I would prefer Carter to Cooper. I can see how on it's own my comment can be misinterpreted but all you have to do is look through the thread, I was writing to a Kiwi

...pps, otherwise I would of wrote, "wouldn't swap him for Carter"...subtle difference but a difference nontheless.

"The thing with the SH fly halfs is that they are luck to be playing in good teams. If not you would see how ordinary they really are. Flood, wilko, O'gara, Jones all show there class week in week out with average teams."

The thing with you is you is that you don't know what you're talking about or anything about rugby.

This is possibly the stupidest thing ever said on this website.

Pull your head out of your arse.

Kiwis have always been great steppers. It has always been their running rugby style, with their speedy and skillful backs. Think Christian Cullen, Carlos Spencer, Jonah Lomu. Its culture, its what they learn when their 5, but I dont expect others to understand this.

In no way am I saying that players from other countries can not step, as some idiots think.

To: I hate ppl who write "FIRST!"
After taking the time to read the comments thread, I can see that I am an idiot, and that I completely misunderstood the context of your comments, and what you were actually saying - my apologies. I am a Carter-phile, meaning that if I even see the words "Cooper" and "Carter" in the same sentence, my mind goes blank, I enter into a trance-like state, and I wake up the next morning wondering what I have done. Thus, when I read my post in the cold hard light of day, I was suitably embarassed. Probably a good time to start posting under a new moniker.

"but do you think any other 1st 5 in NZ donald, brett, cruden, slade is better that Cooper cos your an idiot if you do"

Yes I do and no I am not an idiot, I think Slade is a better player, he may not have the same flair as cooper, but he does not have the same problems in defense, I also think in a couple of years Cruden will be better. Graham Henry has dropped many 1st class players in his time because of far smaller problems than defense. There is no way on earth Cooper would make the cut under Henry.

Not saying that Cooper is not a good player, he is, just has some major areas of him game he still needs to sort out.

It's subjective, but I think you have blinkers on.
Slade is nowhere near the player Cooper is. I would even take Barnes or Gitaeu over Slade.

F#$K YOUS ALL lol

Cooper just needs to work on his d and kicking and he'll be on par with carter.

To "I hate ppl who write "First!" said..."

I see you got high-jacked there...
Anyhow, you never know, if Cooper had grown up entirely in Oz, he could be playing NRL, still might end up there.
Good luck for you guys too, you never know against Oz in pool play... same goes for the Boks. Any chance you guys will have a sharper 12 than D'Arcy?

@Tim, yeah a bit but I can see where Roadpig is coming from. Some arguments get old and then under your skin.
Would love to see Downey(N.Saints) get a chance in centre, but I think they'll leave the Darcey Bod combo alone. Darcy had a shit 6ns but great HC, we'll just have to see how goes.
Typical really, I was so disappointed we didn't use the test games and 6 nations to try out new combo's, it's always been a limit for Irish rugby, playing it safe til disastrous results bring in changes.
Oldest prop in history against Samoa to squeeze out a crap win, would have preferred a loss with some young talent on the pitch.
Had expected different from Kidney but I guess he has his reasons. Still admire the man but can't see us beating Aus, fingers crossed though!

So much fuckin trolling on RD. As for Aus world cup hopes. I genuinely believe we will have the best backline in the comp with Genia, Cooper, Beale, O'Connor to name a few. But we just wont have the cattle to outgun a side like the Boks, the Poms and the ABs. As for Quade, I think he has more talent than carter and will go alot further, he just isnt mature enough yet.