England come away with a win over Wales at Twickenham

Good game by the Aviva Premiership XV. Haskell is a dork in celebrating his try like he pushed the scrum on his own, mate they are 8 forwards!!

A few interesting things happened here, like one hell of a tackle by Danny Care on Shane Williams,the massive dissapointment for Morgan Stoddart, on missing the WC, the very good skills by Priestland, and Oh God just how brilliant is Goerge North!!

On a side note, Manu Tuilagi really set down a marker. Glad that there's an "english" centre
that has some flair! The handling and stepping of a stuffed squirrell outshine those of Tindall, Hape and Banahan combined!!

Cheers

@ Juggernauter, Haskell made an apology for that ridiculous moment on his twitter! And when it comes to Manu, he's a product of the Englsih rugby system and age groups, and if he wants to play for us let him.

The picture made me think of the All Blacks. Samoan player. Black jersey. Lol

@Anon hes Samoan, don't fool yourself dipshit! England are basically an invitational side (Barbarians).

Did you like the look of Rhys Priestland at ten for Wales, and who would you have starting for England as first choice - Wilkinson or Toby Flood?

That was Rhys Priestland? I thought Ronan O'Gara was just on loan to Wales!

All kidding aside, I thought Prisetland did rather well starting at 10 for Wales. He might just have a future in it for himself.

And as for the second question, there is no question. Wilkinson. He may be 50 years old, but he's the best flyhalf England have got. And I like this Wilkinson-Carter seesaw for points too much for it to end just yet.

-----

@ Juggernauter, Haskell made an apology for that ridiculous moment on his twitter!

Of course he did. Of course he used Twitter to apologize. Jaysus, what a douche.

@ 1st Anon

Good to know he's apologized! When I watched him do it I was like "oh my, you never learn, do you!"

On the Tuilagi sidenote, this guy is a good player, but seriously, he went to England when he was 12 with a six month tourism visa and stayed since almost his 20th birthday, the only reason he wasn't deported was becauise the RFU pulled some contacts to keep him in the country.

This guy isn't english (as a matter of fact, his full name is Manusamoa, aka "the samoan national rugby team"), but he wants to play for England, Martin Johnson wants him, the RFU looks the other way and they are actually not breaking any law. So why wouldn't he play for England?

Cheers

People were complaining about Haskell on the Inside Line video. I thought he was just being a lad. He really is a dick. Complete faggotry after his try.

@Juggernauter
Can't imagine you know what it's like to score a try in an international, so what if his celebration was overzealous?

Why is Shane Williams playing when they have Stoddart (well, had), North and Brew. I like Williams but recently, his height and size has been a big disadvantage. Also, Brew is a great, great winger. Shame he plays foe the Dragons.

I love how people always jump to say 'Samoan-born' Tuilagi yet no one even thinks of saying 'Fijian-born' Sitiveni Sivivatu

Manu's selection says more about English rugby than Manu...

I have no problem with Manu playing. He must really want to. Consider the fact that he could easily make it onto the Samoan team and his whole family are Samoan and only represented Samoa. Playing for England was a more difficult personal choice for him.

Dear Anon,

If I scored a good solo try I would be so excited I'd probably attempt a back flip (and likely heavily damage my back).

But if I score a try from a solid, moving forward scrum, I'd understand that 7 other guys made my try, and I'd go and hug them and high five them and whatever.

Definitely not start goofing around with a facial expression screaming "I'm the man, please give me a Super Rugby contract so that I don't have to return to High Wycombe inmediately after the World Cup".

Cheers

the whole england selecting foreign players whinging is getting a bit old now.they had two players who arent english playing and one on the bench. its an experimental side and they are the largest major rugby playing nation in the world. theyre always going to have some foreign element. every international rugby team does really except france. this is all coming from an irish man.

"Why is Shane Williams playing when they have Stoddart (well, had), North and Brew. I like Williams but recently, his height and size has been a big disadvantage. Also, Brew is a great, great winger. Shame he plays foe the Dragons."

Shane williams is easily our best winger and carries wales on his shoulders most of the time.. his first game for 5 months and he was obviously rusty but still got a try. Wales are dire when hes not playing.

Was jon davies even playing? jesus that guy is shit, bring in hook or even henson ASAP

Lol, everyone hates Haskell.

I love watching him be right on the end of a big movement and have no one to beat yet still celebrate like he just ran 100 metres and beat all 15 of the opposition, what a cock!

I said it on the other videos, I don't want any of the teams that have previously won the RWC to win it this year. I think the glory has gone to their heads and they need to be knocked down a few pegs by an outside element!

@Juggernauter

Whats wrong with High Wycombe? :D

On a seperate note I think both of the teams have no chance of raising their games to a world cup winning level. I actually think England have underperformed under Johnson, some of the gameplans are atrocious and Ireland in the 6n just highlighted how one dimensional they are under him.

As for Wales...well I guess they kind of try.

@Anonymous

England had an American,a kiwi and a South African in the front row with a replacement SA lock and two foreign centres i believe if I'm not mistaken that is 6 which is over a quarter of a team

To the above anonymous:

One of the benefits of having had an empire, old chap, is that almost everyone can claim an English grandparent. I'm sure if NZ had more to draw upon than a few islands in the South Pacific we'd see an equally multi-national team wearing the silver fern.

Good to see another samoan doing well on the world stage..

I wonder how many of the English team actually have an English accent.

Yep, that's 6 guys born overseas playing for England on that day.

Thank god Waldrom was sent home earlier! I wouldn't have standed seeing that pig in an England jersey!

Oh and Mouritz Botha... I have nothing against this guy, but I read an interview with him (seemed like a good chap) in which he explained that he left SA after being told he was too small and bad to play PROVINCIAL rugby there, and then he sent his CV to several clubs in the UK and therefore started playing for Bedford Athletic, then Bedford Blues and then Saracens, and now he's wearing the english shirt on the INTERNATIONAL stage!!

Also Steven Sykes, the saffer back rower who's now heading for Leinster, declared that he was hoping to play international rugby for Ireland in three years' time!

This is becoming a joke.

Cheers anyway.

Oh and Mouritz Botha... I have nothing against this guy, but I read an interview with him (seemed like a good chap) in which he explained that he left SA after being told he was too small and bad to play PROVINCIAL rugby there, and then he sent his CV to several clubs in the UK and therefore started playing for Bedford Athletic, then Bedford Blues and then Saracens, and now he's wearing the english shirt on the INTERNATIONAL stage!!

Also Steven Sykes, the saffer back rower who's now heading for Leinster, declared that he was hoping to play international rugby for Ireland in three years' time!

This is becoming a joke.

Cheers anyway.

Oh and Mouritz Botha... I have nothing against this guy, but I read an interview with him (seemed like a good chap) in which he explained that he left SA after being told he was too small and bad to play PROVINCIAL rugby there, and then he sent his CV to several clubs in the UK and therefore started playing for Bedford Athletic, then Bedford Blues and then Saracens, and now he's wearing the english shirt on the INTERNATIONAL stage!!

Also Steven Sykes, the saffer back rower who's now heading for Leinster, declared that he was hoping to play international rugby for Ireland in three years' time!

This is becoming a joke.

Cheers anyway.

Seeing any team other than NZ wearing all black is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Disgraceful, especially when the English are going to be guests in NZ for the RWC.

Wow, i knew their uniform was black. But didnt realise it would look 'exactly' the same as the all blacks.

It's pretty funny.
England now has South Africans, Samoans and New Zealanders in key positions throught their starting team and extended squad and are wearing the NZ teams' uniform during home games at Twickenham.

I guess they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Pretty good game too, both teams played some good rugby. England will no doubt be a threat at the World Cup and Wales will be very competetive too.

It would be funny though if England won the World Cup with a third of their team from Africa and the South Pacific, while dressed in the All Blacks' uniforms.

priestland looked really good, added a great attacking dimension to the side. if stephen was playing i bet you we wouldnt have scored 2 of those tries

Shane Williams' try was far from brilliant and actually hurt the team down the stretch.

Consider that he had a four man overlap with only one defender to beat. That should be an automatic try in any game above grade level. So, there's no real glory there in scoring the try, the trick is to do it in a way that simplifies the resulting conversion attempt. Watchaken from the sideline, which then went wide. Two points left wanting in a very close match.

Imagine an alternate universe where rather than padding his stats, he instead had committed the lone defender before sending the ball wide for a forward to rumble to the post. The conversion in front of the sticks goes over, and suddenly Wales is within a drop goal of winning the game at the end after North's second try.

It's the simple mistakes that get you.

On a side note, I really liked England's black strip.

Lol the english look like PRETENDERS!!!!

Attendance was over 80,000 and thats for a warmup game where neither team put out their best players.
I can guarantee the peak of SH rugby the tri nations wont even come close to those numbers.

Woopdey fuckin doo.

Who gives a crap. So there's lots of people in England wanting to go watch a low standard warm up match.

Guess us SH types which just have to make do with attending the World Cup.

england warm up match 80,000
NZ world cup final 60,000

To the Dick above -
England Population 52.6 million
New Zealand Population 4.2 Million

anonymous said
england warm up match 80,000
NZ world cup final 60,000


Greater London approx 8,000,000
Auckland approx 1,400,000
.. so what's your point?

Good game. I think England will be Australia's biggest threat RWC time. Key point is that the Aussies can beat anyone on their day but when was the last time they put on three good performances together against the top five international teams? It's required to make it through QF, SF and the big one.

I like the fact that some of the NH teams are looking to use the ball in hand and should make for a cracker RWC. I think England and Wales in-particular have surpassed SA based on the evidence of the last 12 months. Though the 20 something injured Bokke left at home may be cooking up something completely different.

If I can weigh into the Tuilagi debate - He's come through the English rugby systems and chosen to play for them. Fair play and good luck to him and the RFU. It's just ironic that it was the English who for so many years were giving NZ grief about the same situation, ie. Islander players playing for the ABs who played through the NZ systems. No offense to the English, just calling it how I see it. Open to objective feedback and take back any comments if bettered by intelligent insight.

Why have the Black Jersey? Clearly an attempt to undermine the All Blacks. They should just stick with their traditional white/red. Bloody tosser's.

While it's never fun to watch your team lose, I did see a few positives by Wales.

First of all, I think someone has finally told Mike Phillips to process the ball quicker. In this match the ball was coming out of the rucks much faster than in, for example, the Six Nations. I've been in torment for years over this. Glad to see signs of a change. However, he still habitually passes the ball too high from the ruck, forcing the receiving player to lose all momentum going forward.

Secondly, Wales' fitness training clearly showed, as has been noted elsewhere.

Wales also showed more patience in the build-up and didn't look as if they were just running sideways all the time.

And Wales' defense was quite strong, I thought. Considerably fewer line breaks by England than I'm used to seeing.

Unfortunately, the high number of handling errors was there for all to see.

Still, on this evidence, I would expect Wales to win next weekend.

Please grow up about the black jersey. New Zealand didn't invent that colour. Yes, it might not be the best move just before the World Cup in NZ but it's just a colour (or, really, an absence of one). It's only because there is relatively few international rugby sides that this is a problem. Do you think that The Netherlands care that the Ivory Coast wear orange? Whatever you might think, it's certainly not "disgraceful". Please get a sense of perspective.

Not to mention England's cricket team, which is basically a South Africa C-team.

Zavalla, it's just a bit ridiculous.
England have never worn black before.
They always critisised NZ for poaching Islanders (even though most of the 'stolen' players were NZ citizens, but didn't look white, so it was assumed they must have been kidnapped and brainwashed into playing for the All Blacks).

Now England wears a jersey which looks almost exactly like NZs uniform. Right before they go to the World Cup in NZ.
And their WC squad is about one third foreign born, some players who have English as their second language.

It's just a bit ridiculous. Imagine they win the World Cup with a team full of kiwis, against NZ, while wearing an All Blacks jersey, in Auckland.
People would confused as to who won the game.

Have England ever complained about NZ poaching from the Pacific Islands? I imagine not.

And I don't agree with England's black jersey, not least because the purple one was interesting, unique and only a year or so old. It's getting like football now, with three new kits per year. However, I don't think it's disgraceful or disrespectful or whatever, just an odd choice, born possibly out of the commotion it could cause. And because black is super kewl.

Just watched interview with Manu on YouTube. You close your eyes you'd forget he was from Samoa. You can still here a slight Samoan accent but it's very much English.

Should we thank Europe for the global financial crisis too while we're thankign you for our countries. Maybe thank you for World War 2?

Good work guys, thanks alot. Maybe take a break now.

New Zealand are a disgrace for wearing white alternative jerseys. A total lack of respect for the mighty nations of England and Germany.

I vote that we demand a refund of our earthquake aid donations.

The origin of the current "financial crisis" is the USA and the subprime market.

Actually it started in Dublin in a small firm trading in derivitives.

And the sovreign debt crisis is the core issue. European countries dont have any realistic way of repaying their public debt. They are the core problem. A massive percentage of the US stimulus package went to Europe. Because
Europe is the biggest problem.

Five of the Australia starting 15 on Saturday were born outside of Australia.

And those yellow jerseys show a total lack of respect for Brazil, what a disgrace.

What a farce this game is.

The global financial crisis (GFC) or global economic crisis is commonly believed to have begun in July 2007 with the credit crunch, when a loss of confidence by US investors in the value of sub-prime mortgages caused a liquidity crisis.

lol at "it started in Dublin"

First there wont be a major team in the world cup that doesnt have renationalised payers.

As to the match, England looked in control in the first half. Jonny coming back to form, manu, stevens and armitage pretty much booked there flights. Shaw looked like a fossil and Banahan was awful defensively, I was at the match and is poor positioning off the ball led to so many welsh breaks including the one that lead to the second try- he may be a big boy but he proves that after breaking the tackle he is incapable of successfully off loading. Croft and haskell both had good work rates.

George North was epic very exciting for wales and jamie roberts did his job, andy powell will sort out the No. 8 slot which was weak for them on sat.

Be good to see youngs, ashton, Lawes and fooden back in the mix, rest flutey and perhaps try tindal - given his defensive performance it would be really interesting to see armitage in the centre to. The second half from england was a weaker side no doubt.

Oh and hodgson-really?

for fuck sake,

Wales have a black away strip,

Are you kiwi's really that arrogant that you think you have exclusive rights to black- which ever colour you pick its going to clash with a team. The kiwi's have used white away kits for years- dont hear us bitching.

If anything you guys are the arrogant ones - you New zealand yet you have to be refered to as the all black. You hold up every game with a laughable dance -totally irrelevant. Maybe we should get austin heally on to do the tango.

Its really boring, you log onto to the forums to chat about the game and instead get 50 16 year olds bitching.

ITS JUST A FUCKING SHIRT!

New Zealand have more international players playing for foreign national teams than any other country in the world. Alot of the samoan national team are kiwi-born. Sitiveni sivivatu has been in NZ legally since a teenager, and i have no problem with him representing the all blacks. Its the players who change nationally once established as a professional player that annoy me. No problem with tuilagi, even if he should have been deported, he's grown up in the uk and came through leicesters youth ranks. Same can be said of dylan hartley and delon armitage. But matt stevens? former springbok youth player? mouritz botha and hendre fourie? riki flutey? shontayne hape? thom waldrom? you're having a giraffe. England have the largest pool of home-grown professional players available to them, whom they avoid picking and as a group are still rubbish.

About 15-20% of the British population are not ethnically British. Factor that % into England, where most of the ethnic minorities live, and it's higher.

Almost 25% of all schoolchildren in England and Wales are from ethnic minorities.

Take these two statistics and wonder why the England rugby, football and cricket teams aren't even more multinational than they are at the moment.

Don't think anyone really cares that England have a black away strip, just think it's strange that they wear it during a home match. Nz away strip is White but only the top and they have only worn it if there was a clash with has only been once in the past 4 years against France in Marselle but straight after the game riche put on a black jersey once the game was over. That's the difference to England it's just a colour to nz it is history. Guess England don't have as much pride in their jersey

You have to respect immigration, it's nice for the Saffers, Kiwis and Aussies to finally earn a decent wage by filling the bar positions in London.

This particular comments thread is pathetic, I really think RD should start moderating these threads more.

This website is about rugby, not the credit crisis, not the old empires, not colonisation, crime or colour.

Of the 53 current comments, less than a quarter of those are actually relevant, let alone worthwile reading.

My opinions:

England black Jersey - discussed to death, yet it seems an odd choice as there was no demand from the English public for a change from the red. Black was always going to raise unneccessary issues and should've been left for another WC/6 Nations. It is a little strong to refer to it as a 'disgrace' though - rather than seem petty and sling insults around allow your team to do the talking, the All Blacks don't need much in the way of fanboys for them to win.

England Player Poaching - In an ideal world every player on every team would be able to date their ancestry back multiple generations within the country they play for. However, the world being the tiny, interwoven place it is conspires against this ideal and as such many players can claim for multiple nationalities. England are not the only team guilty of this, yet do seem to have quite a few foreign players. Other team's supporters can harbour the satisfaction of knowing these players were deemed not good enough for their team. If they don't want them, it seems a little petty that no team can have them. If it's OK in the eyes of Rugby Association, then it should be ok to everyone.

Haskell - the man's a dick. Having seen footage of him on various lions/England international tours it looks as though everyone on the teams he plays for thinks so too.

All in all a good match with much to mull over, despite the tragic injury to Stoddart (fortunately Wales seems blessed with a good few decent wingers).

Anonymous Rugby, the dying game said...

Five of the Australia starting 15 on Saturday were born outside of Australia.

And those yellow jerseys show a total lack of respect for Brazil, what a disgrace.

What a farce this game is.

This ! :D

What a joke this color debate is, can one be more precious ?!

i haven't seen this match but i guess these warm-up matchs are not about skills but a physical barometer. Sad for Stoddart and Moody (?)

England will be ready gor the rwc. Their only weakness: their self-confidence and their center pairs (Tindall with Tuialgui, Hape or...)

on a side note, what happened to RFU and FFF? i understand the AB's angriness about this "black" shirt and when, you'll discover french jersey next WE, you'll also see a touch of kiwi. Not fond of traditions, but blue and white are definetly their colours, let the black to the blacks

TerryQ

All this hate for James Haskell. Unlike the majority of people commenting on here, I have actually met him. I met him in a bar in Paris and he was a riot, really friendly and approachable - he is absolutely huge by the way. He clearly likes the limelight but if I was an internationl sports star with his physique I'd be a bit of a show off as well. He is young with a bright personality, we need a variety in rugby, they can't all be monosyllabic mutants like Martin Johnson.
As for the foreign element, I personally think that we have enough English born lads that can do the job without having to raid other country's talent, but as someone on this board has pointed out we are a country rich in different nationalities as our school system is testament to. Boundaries and identities are changing and rugby is just reflecting these changes. Now if we can only get more Spanish/Italian people over here then we can improve our truly dreadful football team.
Loving the black change strip by the way!

i guess all you english lads must be loving pretending to support the all blacks. Why are the english public not complaining about the jersey. If i was english i would want my team in our traditional colours! hahahaha next year i bet they will play in pink, or lime green.... or multy coloured..... fact is no matter what they play in or what nike is trying to prove... england will get smashed.. as usual

I just want to say im I think people are being over the top about the foreign players thing. Tobi Falatou im sure isnt a welsh name, charteris was born in England and we have had many players from across seas down the years. Wales are currently grooming Ben Morgan from the scarlets who is an Englishmen. I think it shows a great deal of loyalty and commitment to pledge your self like that. If they want to play for England I say carry on.

Johny W was in cup rugby mode in the first half and looked like it would be a comfortable win but when Wales stepped up a gear I thought England couldnt cope.

Having said that theres alot of players coming back to both sides so dont know if its a true reflection. Wales to win next week.

"If i was english i would want my team in our traditional colours!"

You mean like this?

http://i56.tinypic.com/21kb0xw.jpg

Or like this?

http://i54.tinypic.com/r8bb6d.jpg

Go back to your farm dumbo.

I think it's parlty a reaction to all the crap that's come out of the English media over the years critisizing Nz for fielding Islander players. It annoyed alot of people since it was based laregely on ignorance. The players who play for NZ are all either born there or moved their at school age.
They are all products of NZ rugby unions junior system.

Then all of a sudden you look at an England team that has guys who cannot be considered English in any way. Hape? He came to England as a New Zealand rugby league international, to play proffesional rugby league. A couple years later and he's an England rugby union international.
Mourtiz Botha and Hendrie Fourie are Boers who speak English as their second language and moved to England as adults to play pro rugby.
Matt Stevens played junior rugby for South Africa.
Thomas Waldrom has been in England for about a year and a half or so, has never lived their before, is as kiwi as pavlova and grew up in NZ dreaming of playing for the All Blacks. He played for the Crusaders for years. Now England are ready to cap him.
Ricky Flutey is a maori, with a simialr background to Waldrom. Came to England after he couldn't hold down a spot at the Hurricanes and had let go of his dream to play for NZ. Now's not just in the England team he played for the Lions.

These players are not English at all. They didn't come through the English rugby system, they aren't English juniors. Some don't even speak English as their first language. They aren't citizens, they probly can't even vote (I don't know England's electoral laws). They all grew up dreaming of playing for other countries and only came to England for proffesional rugby union.

And the black jerseys is just funny. It's obvious to everyone they did it because they were playing in NZ.

lmao, love how england always get all the attention, lap it up boys!

even if england won the world cup playing totally running rugby, the rest of the planet would still find something to moan and bitch about

People are complaining wayyyy too much. look at the rugby, the fact is both teams didnt play very well, england have an excuse because the team they played had not really played together before.

Wales on the other hand, seem to have major problems in the centres, jamie roberts did make lots of tackles but he is providing no attacking qualities, i believe that Hook should be playing at inside centre for creativity with jon davies, he isnt playing too well in this side but then that has a lot to do with who is playing at 12. if you look at his club performances you can see that he plays very well because of the 12 being creative. you may lose some strength but you have that in people like george north and alad brew (if he is selected)

I guess the welsh number 8 on the day was as welsh as manu is english? just he didn't score...

Sivivatu - Fiji
Tuqiri - Fiji
Collins - Born in Samoa

So all you england haters shut the fuck up for just five minutes.

Collins moved to NZ as a child.
Sivivatu when he was a teenager. Neither moved there for rugby.
Tuqiri moved to Australia when he was a child also. He also did not come for rugby.

If you include English players who came as children or teenagers, it's more than a third of their national team.

Anonymous said...

"New Zealand have more international players playing for foreign national teams than any other country in the world. Alot of the samoan national team are kiwi-born. Sitiveni sivivatu has been in NZ legally since a teenager, and i have no problem with him representing the all blacks. Its the players who change nationally once established as a professional player that annoy me. No problem with tuilagi, even if he should have been deported, he's grown up in the uk and came through leicesters youth ranks. Same can be said of dylan hartley and delon armitage. But matt stevens? former springbok youth player? mouritz botha and hendre fourie? riki flutey? shontayne hape? thom waldrom? you're having a giraffe. England have the largest pool of home-grown professional players available to them, whom they avoid picking and as a group are still rubbish."

You sir are the only person speaking any sense here on the issue of foreign born players, i've never met a rugby fan who has a problem with corbisiero who's been over in england since he was little. Its guys like Hape or Fourie who piss me off, nothing english about them, not good enough for their own country so they come over here instead

They're gonna have to clamp down on it soon because with NZ's unbelievable depth (Ranger not even in the squad?) and SA's mystifying selection policies and surplus in the back row there's only gonna be more of these guys. Someone has to take a stand before the english national team is english in name only.

Sorry for the long post but also it was a bit of a shock watching this after 3 months of nothing but super 15 and tri nations, the contrast in the quality of the rugby was startling, nothing to worry NZ on display here.

Im very disappointed in Englands performance. English Rugby is very poor; no creativity, no skill, no class. Wilkinson is past it. Wales looked quite good.

So England wear away kits at home games now......interesting???

We (Kiwi's) don't think we own the colour black, we just find it pants you've pulled it out now, the year you come to NZ for the RWC. If you had a black away kit for the last 20 years, then no worries.

So glad Manu is playing for England now, I've been hearing people moan for years how NZ 'poach' all the pacific players. English media bleeted on about it relentlessly. Even though they were all either born in NZ or grew up in NZ playing through the age grades and that's what made them good. But I guess now England does it, it's a different story!

Rugbydump, is is time to remove the comments section. Unfortunatly it has become a place for people with too much time to hide behind their keyboard and bicker, like every other popular website on the internet.

Anyone else notice tuilagi missed a LOT of first up tackles? He ran an excellent angle for his try but that was about it. He missed Roberts several times and very nearly missed shane williams completely. He's not a bad player by any stretch but maybe this wc is too soon

"Brew is a great, great winger."

Incorrect; Shane Williams is a great winger, Gerald Davies is a great, great winger and Aled Brew is a quality club player who may or may not have a future in international rugby.

all these saying england are a foreign team let me list this for you.
Lomu = Tongan
Umanga = Samoan
Collins = Samoan
Sivivatu = Fijian
the list goes on and people moan about england australia do it to so get off your high horses

You know the difference between kiwis and Poms? The Poms wouldn't whinge about having sand in their vaginas if the kiwis away strip was white, grow up and grow some balls: It's Nike, upping their sales. And as for internationals, surely it says something about your countries if loads of your players are leaving when young to join what must be a better youth structure? And if it's genetics you're looking at, every English player would be Germanic, Italian, Celtic, Norwegian, Dutch with occasional African, oriental and islander influence. Which strangely, would be the same for a lot of kiwis..

Spike

Here we go again with the England bashing. Wales also have a black away kit:

http://www.rugbyworldcupjerseys.co.uk/2011/07/black-wales-away-rugby-world-cup-jersey-rwc-2011-away-shirt/

Wales also had a gold away kit which looks pretty much the same as an Australian kit:

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/rugby-news/2008/10/24/wales-reveal-new-rugby-away-kit-55578-22112173/

But because it's England everyone over reacts. Then we get the oooh it's because England are so arrogant blah blah blah.

I suggest you all stop whining about it and concentrate on supporting your own teams. The shirt is simply a way to generate a lot of shirt sales. England fans will buy this shirt not because it sticks two fingers up at NZ but because it is probably never going to be done again and fans like to buy into that exclusivity.

All this hatred of England has to stop. Without us there would be no rugby. We have more travelling fans than any other country by a mile and spend more money than any other nation in the hosts cities.

The real scandal is the hotel prices being charged in NZ for the duration of the WC - now that really is taking the p!ss!

"PB said...

So England wear away kits at home games now......interesting???"

Teams do that in every sport these days, have you not heard of marketing? It's the reason why NZ play some Tri Nations games in freaking Hong Kong (very traditional).

Rugby fans, now even more dense than soccer supporters.

Lomu born and raised in auckland new zealand
Umaga born and raised in Wellington New Zealand
Collins moved to Wellington at the age of 4
Sivivatu moved to auckland at 15.

Waldrom, Hape and Flutey moved to england in their mid 20's for the express purpose of playing professional rugby.
Not even close too being the same thing.

The argument shouldn't be about where players are born but where players were developed. The country that has spent time, effort and money on that player should have first dibs on that player. But rugby for pros is a job and like all jobs you want to get as far as you can and if that means having to move to another country to play at the highest level then so be it. It's the way the world is and will continue to be so for as long as the game is around. So let's get over it people on focus more on how the abs are finally going to win another world cup :)

See, this is what happens when people in New Zealand finally get dial up internet access.

i love the way the english always try to defend the undefendable. they master the hypocrisy art :)

i remember english papers saying that NZ success was due to Tongan, Fidjian or Samoan players. it is quite wrong. all players like sivivatu, nonu, Lomu... or even Umaga were born or came to school in NZ when they were chil or adolescent. So they grew up, learn and perfect rugby in the NZ system.
what these papers think about RFU "foreign" policy? where u can see guys like Stevens, Hape, Botha, Hartley, Waldrom and Tuilagi...playing with the rose on the heart. None of these guys is born in England , a large part is in England since (very) few years.

pity, because England have a lot english-born talents.
i wonder if the tuilagi's mother had dreamt of a match england-samoa with 2 of her sons in 2 different teams...

@Ben

"i remember english papers saying that NZ success was due to Tongan, Fidjian or Samoan players."

NZers always say this... I read the papers and I haven't seen anything like what you just wrote written. Maybe you could link an article or something.

So,you move to a country at a very early age. You go to school, play rugby because you love the game and you're good at it. You decied to really give it a go growing as a player and dream of playing for your country. you go through various academies and finally make your dream come true

Sorry you cant play for this country because people in rugby forums say you're not really from this country, you should really pack your bags now. yeah bye.

I came here to read inciteful views about the game. I wade through 50 posts like mine. I am sad this counts as debating rugby
:(

can we moderate this forum so we get to talk about the game?

I'll start off, On saturdays performance heres who i'd start this saturday....

1 - Stevens
2 - Hartley
3 - Corbisero
4 - Lawes
5 - Palmer
6 - Croft
7 - Wood
8 - Haskell
9 - Youngs
10 - Wilkinson
11 - Ashton
12 - ?????
13 - Manu
14 - Monye
15 - Foden

I really dont know who we have that can fill the 12 spot!?

Black top or white top doesnt matter it seems to me that without ashton and foden England are still a bunch of Knuckle draggers who flair consists of drop goals and deep passing. zzzzzzz sorry i fell asleep talking about it zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

yeah your right what would england be without there best players?

dick

*their

yeh sorry anonymous with there two best players they are a bunch of knuckle draggers with two good players. Happy.

Anyway I think Wilkinson should start at 10 come rwc because he knows how to play cup rugby. Take points when ever you have an chance. Its very difficult to play against. Bring Flood on if they are chasing the game.

I think Wales should play Priestland again sat he plays what in front of him and his kicking to touch was superb. Hes got potential. But he does come from the O'gara school of tackling.

What do Wales do with James hook then?

hooky is one of those guys who is crippled by his own versatility - (plus he looks like the bad guy from the kids show sporticus which is quite funny!).

be interesting to see if henson gets a run out, andy powell could cause us some problems to.

I think we'll see a very different england side this sat - most people will right us off but we have made the last two finals!

@ Savage

Based on your squad selection and the weekends performance I thought armatage should play at 15 ? had a great game. immense speed, keen eye and great defense. that williams try should have been turned over by a loose foward when armitage tackled number 7. great tackle, no support... as for number 12, maybe put wilko at 12 for his defense and play making and flood at 10? just a warm up game...
-Bloodfya (sa fan)

@Savage - ah yes, the rugby... :)

I like your team.

Has Tom Wood had much experience at openside? I've only seen him playing blindside, both for Saints and England. Having said that of course, from what I have seen of him I'm sure he'd give it a bloody good go. I also thought he really took his opportunity well in the six nations (in fact I think he was arguably England's best player), so looking forward to him having another go. If he can play 7, then I think they should get him in there regardless of whether Moody recovers from his injury or not. (I admire Moody, but he's clearly not in the right physical condition at the moment to lead a team through a world cup).

Backline option 1:
Youngs 9, Flood 10 (profiting from successful club experience) and Wilkinson at inside centre. I've suggested that on here a few times so sorry for being tedious. But I do think that has tremendous potential - the experienced Wilkinson would relieve pressure from Floody, give another kicking option, offer mean defence and easy interchange with TF to keep the oppo guessing. I know JW's not that big and Tuilagi's hardly a monster by current centre standards, but that's a pretty physical but agile centre partnership.

Backline option 2:
Wilkinson and Care half-backs. Move Tuilagi in one to play at 12 (don't know how much he's played there before, but don't see why he can't) and put Armitage in at 13, where he's played quite a bit for Irish. Would be nice to have another genuine attacking threat and I think he deserves inclusion after Saturday's performance. I reckon with the rest of the picks as you had them it'd be a pretty dynamic and positive backline.

""The majority of South Africans, Australians and New Zealanders originate from Europe.

Quit crying babies and thank us everyday for your countries.""

Idiot. Do you not realise that the majority of them certainly don't. Did you know that South Africa in particular has an overwhelming majority of native people, originating from various tribes across Africa. There are 11 official languages with only 2 of those having European roots.

We have a word for you where I come from mate - twaaaaaaaaaat! (which incidentally originates from Europe)

I think theres alot to be said for wilko at 12, and armitages defensive performance definatley shows he could move into the centres as well.

I think wilko would really sort out that defensive line as well if he played 12, there where moments on saturday where it looked like we had 5 guys less on the pitch!

bloodfya - I see what you mean about armitage at full back, its always hard when somebody comes in and make such an impact - foden has been epic though!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mate, did you not get the memo? We've gone back to talking about the rugby again now.

So, Tuilagi arrives and stays in a country illegally yet is allowed to stay on the basis that he could possibly represent England at rugby. I was nearly denied entry to the UK on the basis that my valid UK passport was dirty! I need to brush up on my rugby skills to avoid this in future.

Nice touch!

On a side note I would have liked to see simpson daniels get a crack at it

Talking about the game aside, has anyone else seen grass on the homepage?!?!?!?! WOW!

You know what is funny... Everyone talks about England playing non english in KEY positions... what part of South Africa was Jonny Wilkinson born in?

Danny Care... what about him? or is scrum half not a key position any more?

Tool Haskell number 8... nope definitely not a key position there..

Lets check NZ:
Rokocoko: Fiji (Now he is a quiet one who does F'all for the AB's isn't he?)
Muliaina: Samoa (Definitely not a name heard throughout AB matches!!)
Kaino: Samoa .....
Sivivatu: Fiji...
Ben Franks: AUSTRALIA!!!..

To name a few, i mean the lists are endless, so great England have a few people who were born in a different country playing for them.

Now take simon shaw: "not seriously taking up the game until he was 16, just after his family had moved to England from Kenya" An extract from Wiki.... so which country did he really get taught in?

Oh, also on a side note when do we get to see a nice nasty video of stoddart's leg break?! :)

Well, so what, England has a few non english players... at least they don't have a muslim playing for them...

To all the people on about the Black shirt, the ALL blacks change strip used to be white..... "imitation is the best form of flattery and all that jazz."

It was a shit game and I am glad that isn't near the strongest side we can put out, or we would be F****D.

why does nobody talk about the rugby anymore ? there are irb rules that apply for every international team, everybody is in the same boat!

i think it could be a great game next weekend, wales will need to get their patterns more securly in place, they were undone by sort of, fifth and sixth phase being that little bit too slow, with england holding well and slamming into those important rucks.

my prediction...a fiery wales to win by two scores.

cheers!

Please stop calling it an away kit!! Rugby being a gentleman's game, the home side changes their kit if there is a clash. (Not that there was!!) Nike give the rfu plenty of cash to wear their stuff so we can't blame them for changing it all the time- personally I thought the purple one from a couple of seasons ago was a right touch!

As for overseas players i don't have a problem if they bring true value to the side like Mike Catt did, Matt Stevens has and hopefully Tuilagi will. Its players like Flutey and Hape who if we're being totally honest haven't done anything of note in an england shirt. It must be so frustrating for players like Olly Barkley, Dan Hipkiss or Anthony Allen who are very good English centres who don't get a look in because of these useless kiwis that for some reason the RFU love! Haven't even considered Waldrom as he was cut in the first group.

"Clint said...
Why have the Black Jersey? Clearly an attempt to undermine the All Blacks. They should just stick with their traditional white/red. Bloody tosser's."

Why have the White Jersey? Clearly an attempt to undermine England. They should just stick with their traditional all black. Bloody tosser's

See what i did there? You really are a muppet! http://bit.ly/nwS9n9

"Anonymous said...
So, Tuilagi arrives and stays in a country illegally yet is allowed to stay on the basis that he could possibly represent England at rugby. I was nearly denied entry to the UK on the basis that my valid UK passport was dirty! I need to brush up on my rugby skills to avoid this in future."

it was a campaign run by our local MP's, there was also a petition. I have no problems letting a professional rugby player stay. At least i know he'll contribute more to our country than most immigrants.

Mr Obvious

I have an idea for all the whingers on here. If you think that England are so boring etc etc, how about you turn over and watch something else, alternatively you could take your Nike slippers off and go and do some rugby coaching at your local rugby club as you all seem to be such great experts.

Also regarding the shirt thing. It's a shirt get over it.

Rugby is so gay, at least football fans don't argue over shirt colours, dancing before games and immigration.

RIP Rugby.

Anonomous Irish man stating that every country incorporates foreginers in their team except France...you are clearly misinformed. Serge Betsen - Cameroon. Fulgence Ouedraogo - Burkina Faso, Marsh - New Zealand, Dominguez the prop etc. I'm sure I could go on and on a la the French soccer team getting most of their palyers from continental Africa.

back onto rugby.. with wales missing their whole first choice front row, do people think a front row of jenkins, rees and jones would have helped them up front and at ruck time, where england seemed to be far superior. i know i read somewhere that adam jones was told to lose some weight, so maybe they're looking at a more mobile pack? Next week should be interesting

Concerning Anonymous comment from August 08, 2011 6:55 PM, please RD, remove this post. It's a shame for all rugby fans wherever they are from.

So many angry people. I hope everyone has fun at the world cup :)

YOU'RE ALL PATHETIC!!

Mpc-33 said...
Concerning Anonymous comment from August 08, 2011 6:55 PM, please RD, remove this post. It's a shame for all rugby fans wherever they are from.
I second that. What a disgusting excuse for a human being.

You know what I find funny as a Samoan, is all this pathetic talk. Now I am under no illusions, I sincerely doubt that Samoa will make it particularly far in the World Cup, I'd love us to, but I severely doubt it. Enough about Samoa...

But from reading all these comments, there is a HUGE amount of speak of NZ choking. Now a lot of this I would imagine stems from fear at the fact NZ is currently the IRB number 1 team and is relatively unbeaten therefore its perhaps a sign of jealousy, or perhaps a sign of lets bitch about them as much as we can before they win because then we'll have to keep quiet. Whichever it is, its getting OLD. HOWEVER!!!!!! On the flip side, what is all this Anti-English talk and throwing England to the dogs? We know full well that Georgia won't be in the finals, we seriously doubt Canada, USA, Scotland, Italy ALL those countries will be in the finals, semi's or even quarters, yet there are not insulting comments about them? Is this perhaps a hidden fear that the English team will be complete shitbags and knock your loveable team out of the World cup with a flukey pitifully sad drop goal or boring rugby style?

I have to say, the more you guys insult a team, the more scared you sound!

"Mpc-33 said...
Concerning Anonymous comment from August 08, 2011 6:55 PM, please RD, remove this post. It's a shame for all rugby fans wherever they are from."

Completely DISAGREE, I don't see what is a shame about it, the guy is speaking the truth

"Mpc-33 said...

Concerning Anonymous comment from August 08, 2011 6:55 PM, please RD, remove this post."

Oppressing the truth? Don't be embarrassed.

Africa begged for independence and now we have to keep building wells and schools for you every year.

Tuilagi, Flutey, Hartley, Hape, Botha, Fourie, Stevens,
Corbisiero...

England have over two and half million registered players and they still choose to field these exiles, the irony is that there are better English born and bred players out there than these

I just got a new lapotop at Currys in Clapham. Bargain of the century!

In all seriousness, these riots are putting things into perspective. Stop winging about immigration/kit colours/ cheating flanks / crowd numbers and start getting your kids involved in Rugby. I guarantee you that the sport we love will keep them occupied and happy. Enough arguing and bullshit please!

I would have been on this site trolling but I was too busy looting and rioting. AB's are gonna choke.

This isnt English bashing, judging by the blogs over the past month they are just getting a taste of their own medicine. And they absolutely hate it.

The next time a non-English videos is uploaded to RD I suggest you suppress your trolling, jealous, hateful instincts, and bite your tongue. Be a real Rugby fan and show respect. Be objective. Otherwise "as you were"...

The highlights on RD missed the most important parts of the game in my opinion where the Deadly Drop goals were fired.

Weaver, I have no issue with banter, but I think you'll find the English have been on the sharp end of the stick since 2003...

Those guys won the RWC and were slated for boring rugby. They then died a death and everyone laughed as 2007 came up and then England were in the finals again. But ofcourse everyone quickly forgot that England had surpassed their teams AND MY TEAM because SA won it.

Then they are constantly insulted again, they beat Australia in the Autumn, but that is brushed aside because of Ashton's (sad) swan dive, and also because they were beaten by SA.

Honestly, I think England gets a lot more bashing than it deserves. They provided me with a good education when I went there for my degree and I very much enjoyed playing rugby with the guys out there, they were very hospitable and friendly. Quite contrary to this "arrogant England" that you guys all talk about.

If anything I don't believe any team has the right to insult another team. SA are current world champions and they are having a dire time. New Zealand are IRB number 1, but they haven't won a world cup in 20 years. England are pretty hit and miss but they have made it to the finals in the passed 2 RWC's. But no one team really has a justified reason to insult others.

And as someone mentioned, things like the rioting in England and indeed the earthquake and tsunamis that have occurred in Japan and New Zealand AND the floods in Australia really should put things in more perspective for some of these people that on this earth and this website we are playing a silly little game with an inflatable egg, yet we sound as if we would beat each other to within an inch of our lives over things like shirt colours, and warm up matches?

It's quite sad to see.

I love how England fans are outraged that people would critisize them for nationalising players who not at all English.

All the players cited by English fans as not being New Zealanders, were either born in NZ or moved their as children.

I mean seriously, NZ and to a lesser extent Australi ahave been putting up with this crap from English emdia and fans for years. And the irony is it's based on complete ignorance (English people seem to think Australia and NZ are like 99% white people which is ridiculously far from the truth - like 25% of NZ's population is Islander or Maori, and Australia isn't that different).

So we've been readin idiot statements like this for years :

"Lomu = Tongan
Umanga = Samoan
Collins = Samoan
Sivivatu = Fijian"

Lomu was born in NZ. So was Umanga.
Collins came to Nz at the age of 4. Was he identified by talent scouts and poached at 4 years of age? Sivivatu came as a teenager, but ironically he came to play soccer at kiwi high school. Neither came for rugby.

And there are plenty of English players, like Shaw or Hartley, who were born in Kenya and NZ respectivley but came to England as children or teenagers. You can understand them playing for England. It make sense.

But what about Hape a NZ rugby leageu international? Flutey, Botha, Fourie, even Stevens who was a junior Bok?

This is very cynical poaching, and it's alot of players to simply take from other countries.

And after all the crap that has come out of England over the years about NZ and Aus "stealing" Islander talent (despite those Islanders being citizens born and raised in those countries for the most part), it's just disgusting how blaze England is about it now.

And how they act like no one has the right to critisize them for it.

Can you English stop with the black English jersey crap. All the English comments are having a go at the Kiwis about being arrogant and stuck up because they are complaining about the colour of the Jersey. Yet 99% of Kiwis have commented that they don't give a crap about the black English Jersey, I have not met one Kiwi yet who cares about it.

"But what about Hape a NZ rugby leageu international? Flutey"

They both blow....Infact, Im pretty sure the english having them is a detriment to the enlgish themselves. they push out home grown talent to bring in washed out no talent from a different country...

Honestly i truly believe the people making comments from both of sides are neither english fans nor NZ fans... well, put it this way, they are made by "*insert_country_name* fans" not "rugby fans"

Hey England, go and invent another sport you suck at.

haha, when it comes to sport, almost everyone hates England.

English people are great.

But they have the worst trolls on the face of this planet.

@ Samoa! said...

Nicely said. I think most of the silly comments stem from school boys having a break from there next porn site.

I love a bit of banter(which happens alot in my house as I married a welsh lass!), it does get rather venomos on here though.

This RWC has the potential to be the best yet - whish I was heading to NZ for it. The Kiwi's are good Eggs and always turn up some cracking banter (the jedi proves this!)

savage said...
hooky is one of those guys who is crippled by his own versatility - (plus he looks like the bad guy from the kids show sporticus which is quite funny!).

Nah. Robbie Fowler off Eastenders, surely.

why are so many people making comments on englands black jersey? wales are going to be wearing their black jersey this saturday in cardiff! People going on about people copying the allblacks jerseys but correct me if im wrong but NZ's alternate strip for the world cup is white, well does that mean they are copying England, Fiji, USA, no it doesnt! any country can wear any alternate colour they wish! in Wales we have had numerous away colours ranging from the yellow of romania to the navy of france!

manu tuilagi is a foreign national for england.

one word....shanehowarth

I was amazed to see over 150 comments on this game, now i know that 60% consist of the financial crisis, NH vs SH, manu's nationality and what not to wear to the world cup. I gave up reading haf way through as all I want is to see peoples reaction to the game in the lead up to the World Cup. In my opinion I thought it was not of bad standard for a warm up match, with some flowing rugby and some incredible sportsmanship (Care). Horrific injury for Stoddaet but on the whole some not bad rugby which I hope progresses this week from both teams.

@Von,

I had to google that guy from eastenders, but gave me a little chuckle!

Yes the AB's alternative is white, BUT they have always worn white. Always!

Have England always worn black as their alternative strip..........NO! Try and get that simple fact through your heads.

NZ take a lot of pride in the black jersey, which is why they are called the 'All Blacks'. They wear all black. England are not the 'all whites', so wearing all white means nothing. Try to get this simple fact through your heads too.

Some people just like to ignore this, the others are not intelligent enough to get it.

Fuck sake are we still on that??? ^^

Stop trying to play the race card. Just because you feel NZ players should be black doesn't mean you can discriminate against white NZ'ers, I mean the ALL BLACKS!!! what kind of fucked up discriminatory group is that?!?!?

There is a reason England isn't the ALL WHITES, because they don't want to appear like a bunch of KKK members!!!

You fucking racist, go take your sick racism elsewhere!!!!

^ What the fuck are you on about???

your not the all blacks, your new zealand.

arrogance!

AND WAS JARUSALEM, BUILDED HERE! ON ENGLAND'S GREEN AND PLEASANT LAND!

AND DID THOSE FEET, IN ANCIENT TIME! WALK UPON ENGLAND'S MOUNTAIN GREEN!

JERUSALEM you tit, not JARUSALEM...

sigh...

Typical Welsh being hypocrites/racists etc.

England fielded various players who were not born in England. Wales also fielded players not born in Wales (eg. George North) and have done for many years.

Whether you agree with it or not, no team broke any rules.

At least all the players playing for England can speak English ; )

Had to stop watching this game. I'm so used to watching super rugby and tri nations that this was sad. after watching new zealand hide both Sa and Aus, it's clear to see where the real pace and flair is in world rugby. This game played so slow,and slow sloppy. Wales has zero point to there attack. It seemes the scrum half thinks of something random and calls for it and the first five cant even get his backline in a half decent formation. England shows a little more promise (due in part to having Wilko) but it seems everytime they attack someone(and sadly it was usually a back) would throw some ass no-look pass thatd take the ball to ground and stiffle any chance they had. You know what happens when teams make these mistakes against NZ or OZ? Try time. can't wait for the world cup to come around to see SH teams show the rest of the world how rugby is meant to played. Btw, I'm a NH guy ;)

What shit Rugby!!!

^^^ AGREED! I didn't see ONE SINGLE BUMHOLE getting a poke! I think its disgraceful that some team posing as new zealanders dont participate in the traditional act of anal penetration!

Most people who comment on this site are wankers coming up with pointless comments not related to the actual match.

I expected more out of this England v Wales game. Although I'm pleased with the win for us, I didn't think either teams played that well. However saying this neither sides were at full strength. Hopefully we will get a more skilful game with less mistakes tomorrow. I was impressed with Haskell, Tuilagi, Wilkinson, Priestland, and North was ok.

BRING ON ROUND 2!!!

haha..... this is jokes...

http://bit.ly/nwS9n9

I understand why a lot of teams are migrating towards black uniforms. The purpose of this is to level the playing field in the eyes of the refs... it is a well known fact that referees are blind to law infringements by players wearing black. This will be a fair and balanced WC:)
-Bob

I saw the match from the L30 stand, and i am from Argentina it was a really spectacular match full of people and the merchandising of the match was really spectacular i played a game ofgiving the ball to "wilkinson" and won a scarf; excellent match well played and full of tries i really loved it although i wanted wales winning but George North scoring 2 tries was the best i ve seen ever

I forgot to say that i loved the museum of rugby from twickenham and the way up to the stadium that was massive itself; the flags and the music before the match made me feel great and the entreance of england to the field was the best seen i ve seen ever with the match 23-19 great result; come on Wales!!