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Friday, November 11, 2011

Mike Tindall sacked and fined by the Rugby Football Union

Former England captain Mike Tindall has been dropped and fined by the RFU for incidents that took place in Queenstown, New Zealand, while on tour at the Rugby World Cup. James Haskell and Chris Ashton have also been fined, for a separate incident.

England left New Zealand with their reputation in tatters after underperforming on the field and making waves off the field. After the tournament had finished, there was more controversy as young Manu Tuilagi landed himself in hot (possibly freezing) water. 

Today the RFU took action after three players breached their England Elite Player Squad Agreement while on tour. Tindall has been removed from the squad completely and fined £25,000 for events that took place in Queenstown, while Chris Ashton and James Haskell have both been handed suspended £5,000 fines for their part in an incident with girl in a hotel.

"Mike Tindall’s actions reached a level of misconduct that was unacceptable in a senior England player and amounted to a very serious breach of the EPS Code of Conduct. Whilst we acknowledge his previous good character it needs to be made clear that what he did will not be tolerated," said Rob Andrew.

He said that serious allegations against Ashton, Haskell, and Dylan Hartley were found to be false, but by getting themselves in a compromising situation, they too breached the code of conduct.

"Finally, these episodes and the subsequent disciplinary action should stand as a strong reminder that the highest standards of personal conduct are expected from any England player on and off the field," he added. They have three days to appeal, and we've just heard that Tindall will. 

The below video has nothing to do with the incidents mentioned above, but it shows a recent tackle by Tindall on Schalk Brits, while his supportive wife, royal Zara Phillips, looks on from the stands. A nice moment after what went on in New Zealand.   

Posted at 5:14 pm | 66 comments

Viewing 66 comments

BuzzKillington November 11, 2011 7:35 pm

"He said that serious allegations against Ashton, Haskell, and Dylan Hartley were found to be false, but by getting themselves in a compromising situation, they too breached the code of conduct."

The RFU are hypocrites. I would put my house on the fact that said incident took place while Haskell and co were filming for O2 with the HaskCam, which featured regularly on RD throughout the competition.

The RFU are just mad that their banter isn't anywhere close to the legend that is Brand Hask'

For shame RFU - Justice for The Hask and his evil minion Chris Ashton

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Full Back November 11, 2011 7:37 pm

I think it's wrong what they're putting the guy through, an easy scapegoat as he's at the end of his career anyway. I don't think he did anything so out of the ordinary, they're not supposed to be choirboys for f..k sake!

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BuzzKillington November 11, 2011 7:44 pm

The RFU unfortunately have been forced to respond by the British media who manufactured a witch-hunt against the England team this World Cup. The Daily Mail were at the heart of the witch-hunt, even going so far as to tell lies to vilify the England camp. For example when England were returning from NZ the DM ran a story about Tindall and Tuilagi seemingly nonplussed by the outrage, showing several pictures of the two laughing and giggling on their return from NZ... Only, the pictures they showed were from the England's teams ARRIVAL to NZ, several weeks earlier.

The Daily Mail are also running a story today in which they have a picture of Haskell bungee jumping, with the caption being that Rugby fans were outraged by Haskell bungee jumping, or words to that effect. The obvious problem being that nobody was outraged, because there's no reason to be outraged about a team going on a bungee jump.

I really haven't come across many Rugby fans who care about any of this. It's for the most part media-manufactured nonsense.

The RFU should be embarrassed with themselves. They have not taken a strong or righteous position in issuing these punishments - Instead, they've cowered to baseless media pressure and shown themselves to be spineless.

Bloody journos.

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BuzzKillington November 11, 2011 7:49 pm

Just to elaborate more on the Hask bungee reference. The Daily Mail were trying to imply with their caption that there was outrage from England fans against Haskell because he seemingly didn't take the competition seriously and went to bungee by himself or something. In fact, let me quote it:

"James Haskell, who was criticised for going bungee jump during the tournament, has been handed a suspended fine for his part in a drunken incident involving a hotel maid"

Haskell wasn't criticised for bungee jumping as his bungee jumping was some sort of team exercise(as documented on his O2 cam), but what do you expect from journo scum?

That's why the RFU have issued these punishments, because the media has backed them into a corner with lies, propaganda and manufactured public outrage.

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TechnoMouse November 11, 2011 7:40 pm

The decision to drop and fine Tindall seems a bit harsh to me, although on the other hand I do think his time in an England jersey should have been up after the World Cup anyway to allow some newer talent through and build towards 2015. Fines for Haskell and Ashton I can agree with to an extent - hopefully it should teach them not to get themselves into "compromising" situations in the future. Having seen the many O2 Inside Line videos involving the 2, I would guess they probably just took some of their banter a tad too far, and if they are mature enough they should learn for the future.

On the video, great hit from Tinds on Brits, a man you'd usually expect to make good yardage when he gets the ball. Also enjoyed the crowd's cheering at Zara, bet they love having royalty down to watch!

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JHorlock November 11, 2011 8:02 pm

Disgrace. The RFU shouldn't have even CONSIDERED kicking Tindall off. I am, as I'm sure many other England rugby fans are, extremely angry and dismayed with this decision.

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Pretzel November 11, 2011 8:59 pm

Ofcourse they are not choir boys but at the same sense knowing where your loyalties lie are much more important than "having a giggle with someone in a bar." at the end of the day Tindalls loyalties should remain to both the England team and his wife, he not only lied to management but also looked like a typical english tool trying to chase some tail. It's not necessarily the incident itself it is more the deeper meanings, i.e if he cannot obey simple orders then how can he be a serious captain? If he cannot remain "more holy than thou" then he doesn't really come across as a great role model... (ofcourse MJ was never exactly "holy" but at least he played with his heart on his sleeve and maintained a bit of common sense)

In a previous video many people are on about "professional game" in the public eye etc... Well does it not count off the field?

As for Haskell and co, well I'm sure it was all in banter but learning to behave yourself isn't too hard especially in another country with other cultures...

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stroudos November 11, 2011 9:25 pm

"Tindalls loyalties should remain to both the England team and his wife".

Bolllocks. It's abundantly clear that Mrs Tindall doesn't believe a word of this ridiculous media-fabricated nonsense.

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Pretzel November 11, 2011 9:36 pm

I suppose photos are faked as well right?

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BuzzKillington November 11, 2011 10:16 pm

A photo doesn't have to be faked. Photos lack context. This is all media nonsense. Someone should bring Noam Chomsky out of retirement so he can get to the bottom of this propaganda campaign by the media.

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Maximus November 12, 2011 11:39 am

Kudos for bringing Noam Chomsky on a blog dedicated to sport! That's why I like RD I guess.

The whole thing's a joke. And I believe Haskell/Ashton did much worse than what Tindall did, which is not difficult (getting kissed on the forehead!)

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stroudos November 14, 2011 1:26 pm

I'll see your Chomsky and raise you a Goebbels:
"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth".

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stroudos November 12, 2011 1:37 pm

What photos?? The most incriminating thing I've seen is some CCTV footage of Tindall talking to some girl and giving her a hug.


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Pretzel November 12, 2011 7:20 pm

ok, "stills" i.e frames from the cctv itself...

It makes no odds, the guys were on a binge whilst on holiday, when in actual fact they are technically at work.

Imagine you are a sales person, the rugby world cup is effectively your biggest sales pitch you'll ever have... so shouldnt you be focussed on it, and behaving yourself and therefore not treat the trip to NZ as a lads holiday?

Other teams managed to do as they were told without any great incidents... so why are england the exceptions?!?!

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stroudos November 13, 2011 11:30 am

And this is precisely the point isn't it! England were NOT the exceptions in their behaviour but they have been singled out by the media - particularly the English media - for criticism.

Warren Gatland actually felt the need to come out publicly and say that no, his team were not under official orders to not drink and in fact they were getting plenty of beers in, albeit mostly in their hotel, which was sensible. That whole teetotal Wales team was a fallacy, based on the fact Sam Warburton apparently doesn't drink much/at all because he claims he doesn't really like the taste.

Between the semi-final and final - the biggest game for all New Zealanders ever - Piri Weepu had to literally drag a paralytic Cory Jane back to the team hotel.

All the bungy jumping, which when England did it was a shameful waste of training time and an extraordinarily risky thing to be doing. Ireland did it as well with not so much as a raised eyebrow from the media, so I'm sure did many other teams. The Welsh and French went white water rafting. So what.

As for your sales person analogy, show me a sales person that doesn't celebrate closing a deal by getting hammered with his/her mates. Especially if there's no fewer than six days to recover before the next pitch.

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BuzzKillington November 13, 2011 2:16 pm

Well said stroudos. It seems people have bought into the media sensationalism and don't actually realise that the way the England team behaved was pretty standard for all teams. Pretzel is a prime example of the dangers of media propaganda. And this is just Rugby, scary to realise the power the media have on brainwashing for actual political issues.

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Pretzel November 16, 2011 9:00 pm

It's funny how you have some idea I have bought into "propaganda."

Did Tindall mislead management about the drinking session?
Did Haskell and co get themselves in a less than desirable position with a female staff member of a hotel which was no doubt just misconstrued horseplay (nonetheless an awkward situation)?
Did Manu jump off a ferry?

etc etc etc...

Now don't get me wrong, I didn't buy into the "look at England bungee jumping and wasting precious training time" crap, but the FACT still remains that Tindall bent MJ over a barrel by the whole "misleading" thing. It put Johnson in a position where he either chastises his Captain, or says "boys will be boys."

I do not believe 25K is reasonable or fair, however Tindall deserved some punishment for misleading staff, and if you question that then you undermine the whole discipline of the team, which is infact Englands biggest downfall this entire tour: DISCIPLINE! (or a lack of).

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Fettsack November 11, 2011 9:01 pm

I don't understand what Tindall has done to be banned. Kicking him from the team forever is a very strong decision which can only be fair for serious offence. Every article I read says it's because of his behaviour off-field.
What exactly did he do in New-Zealand?

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Jeri November 11, 2011 9:25 pm

Went dwarf-tossing at a local bar and got caught face-planting a lady's breasts on camera. A little silly yes, but nothing devastating. RFU reacted to it as if Tindall spear-tackled the Queen of England.

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Johnny03 November 12, 2011 2:41 pm

there wasnt any dwarf-tosing when they were at the bar, it wason a seperate night when the england team weren't at the bar, and the woman turned out to be a family friend and attended the wedding and is one of Zara's friends, a hug and a kiss on the fore-head from a friend seems harsh to ban him from the endgland team for life

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Pretzel November 12, 2011 7:55 pm

She wasn't a family friend... she was Tindalls ex, and was a close friend of HIS... she attended their wedding etc, but she was more Tindall's side that Zara's.....

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bnations November 11, 2011 9:09 pm

"Regarding the events in Dunedin, it should be stressed that the allegations of very serious wrong-doing made against Chris Ashton, Dylan Hartley and James Haskell by Annabel Newton, a member of staff at the team hotel, were entirely false,"



"Chris Ashton and James Haskell's behaviour on September 9 did breach the EPS Code of Conduct and they have each been given suspended fines of 5,000."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ

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stroudos November 11, 2011 9:14 pm

Brilliantly put bnations!!

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stroudos November 11, 2011 9:21 pm

This whole thing is a fucking joke. As Buzz says, no self-respecting rugby fan gives a shit about Mike Tindall's behaviour at the world cup. More importantly, neither does his wife!!! (Who, by the way, is looking rather fit in this video!).

The only thing I can think is that Tindall's offered to "take one for the team", calling time on his England career, which was inevitable, so he's not so bothered about not being able to play for England again in future anyway. The £25k fine seems utterly mercenary to me, but is probably the equivalent of a round of drinks to him these days.

Declaring that Ashton et al did nothing wrong and then fining them simply beggars belief.

Is the RFU simply getting some cash in with which to pay off Rob Andrew!?!? Would be great, but in fact of course, Teflon Rob seems to be the one orchestrating it all. How much is he fining himself for his own far more damaging contribution to English rugby?

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BuzzKillington November 11, 2011 10:19 pm

JW is a sook, nobody cares about the book he's selling. He should go back to practicing Buddhism and stop acting like a fame hungry, z-list celeb.

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Pretzel November 11, 2011 11:35 pm

Whether you like him or not is a different matter, I for one will not go and buy his book... and as for him as a person, well I haven't heard much from him in a long while even on the pitch (poor 2011 performance). However he makes a truly valid point. Why is it up to the management to keep the players in check?!

To me the entire England campaign down there seemed like a big "holiday for the boys in white...err...black.."

The older members appeared to have an air of responsibility to them, the younger ones seemed to have a "lads holiday" football hooliganism air about them.

Look at other teams, Wales, for example, they behaved themselves on tour....

But I suppose its fine for the English to mess about

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BuzzKillington November 12, 2011 3:42 pm

Most teams mess about. The only difference between England and the rest is that there was a media propaganda campaign against England. If you think what the England team did - and the didn't really do anything, if we're honest - is exclusive to English rugby then you've never been involved in the game in your life.

There are some teams, although in the minority, who don't drink and don't do anything. But the majority of teams are just like England.

Just wait until RWC 2015. The English media will take aim at all your teams and we'll see how saintly you are.

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Pretzel November 12, 2011 7:29 pm

The thing is you believe I am taking the higher ground because "my team" behaved themselves... you have no idea who I support. I am well aware that 90% of the teams probably had a bit of a "misbehaving" episode, but the fact still remains that England were constantly in the shit. Lets face it, how many other teams pissed about like a bunch of badly behaved adolescents?!? Or at least were dumb enough to get themselves caught. Let's not forget that the whole episode is not limited to a hotel room and a bar, there were other incidents after the world cup, Manu jumping off a ferry etc etc... that is the kind of shit you expect from some numbskull moron who has nothing really to do in life. I get that it was probably funny and a good laugh, but these guys (much like anyone who is "Famous") will always find the shit sticks! You jump off a ferry get arrested and then get let go with a warning, you think the media over there or over in England would pick up on it?!? But as soon as you put yourself in a professional position you bet your boots the world will hear.

Direct me to more articles of badly behaved players this RWC.

I seem to recall Bastaraud of France messing about a few years ago and copping a ton of shit for it, didn't make the French look good did it?

The fact still remains that Tindall mislead the management, put MJ in a position where he couldn't exactly go all "Anti-Captain" on Tindall and all in all between Arrogant Ashton, Horse teeth Haskell and tindall the tit the whole England tour was a joke. (Not to mention the black shirts!)

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BuzzKillington November 13, 2011 2:27 pm

Pretzel, you're outright wrong. All teams pissed about, some more than others, some just as much as England, some probably more than England.

England were NOT exceptionally misbehaved, that's the point. There was a media campaign against England, and that's why you think England were as bad as they were.

Bloody hell mate, do you watch Fox News and support American foreign policy too brother. Is everything the media focuses on the truth? I suppose Iran are the most dangerous nation ever and the world will implode if they have the capacity to enrich uranium also? And Obama is the second coming of Jesus too?

You're being a complete derp-merchant. Your posts are filled with herpity derpy inaccuracies, half-truths, bias and exaggerations.

That articles of other badly behaved teams don't exist doesn't mean shit, except that articles of other teams don't exist. You're presupposing that the media are fair, hahahaha. You really do have the naivety of a child.

It's obvious you have problems with the England team and are hanging on to the TABLOID journalist nonsense about them, rather like a female. Maybe you can get some more scoops on the England team when you pick up the next addition of Heat magazine?

You're embarrassing yourself with your continuation of your baseless argument. Go read Manufacturing Consent, learn a little something about the media, enter the real world, then - and only then - come back and apologise for your outrageous claims.

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Pretzel November 13, 2011 8:33 pm

Why am I outright wrong? What information do you have access to which exonerates not only Tindall but a proportion of the England team?

Do you honestly believe that the RFU merely acted on tabloid sensationalism?!? Let's not also forget how papers are far from being able to be sued. Especially for something such as defamation of character etc.

Whilst you try to disprove my point someone actually hit it home perfectly:

They mention something along the lines of Wales having to make a statement about not having a drinking ban. The fact of the matter is WHAT THEY DID THEY KEPT QUIET. They possessed the brains not to become the centre of attention. They drank IN THEIR HOTEL, now ofcourse I do not believe the England team should be abstinent on their tours and refrain from booze etc, however an air of professionalism is required!!! They ARE in the media's eye, much like any "celebrity" "famous person" etc etc etc, however they are not only "famous" they are also role models and representatives of England, thus behaving accordingly and not acting like tools in another country is pretty high up there in a list of important factors.

Now ofcourse we go back to media again, as I said before I well and truly doubt the RFU would fine a bloke 25k and sack him JUST for going out on the piss. There was surely more to it than that and chances are we won't get to hear about it, so what makes you so high and mighty to claim that I have jumped onto media hype? How can you deny my comments?

Whilst a large amount of media coverage is exaggerated, unless you read the Sun, Daily Mail or similar papers chances are you're reading something which has a little more substance and the basis of truth. But ofcourse you naturally presume all my comments are based on reading the Daily Star and not creating my own opinions on things.

Might want to take into account that whilst its great to deny media coverage, for a lot of things, some stuff does have a truthful background with it!

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stroudos November 14, 2011 1:31 pm

"Whilst you try to disprove my point someone actually hit it home perfectly:

They mention something along the lines of Wales having to make a statement about not having a drinking ban. The fact of the matter is WHAT THEY DID THEY KEPT QUIET. They possessed the brains not to become the centre of attention. They drank IN THEIR HOTEL"


That was me. Very sensible of Wales.

However, World Cup winners Cory Jane and Israel Dagg on the other hand had to be dragged away from a busy Auckland city-centre bar by their team-mate, keen drinker Piri Weepu.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10757700

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stroudos November 14, 2011 1:56 pm

Pretzel: "Direct me to more articles of badly behaved players this RWC."

With pleasure:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10757700
All Blacks star Cory Jane went on a drinking binge and lit up a cigarette inside a packed Auckland bar - less than 72 hours before playing in today's Rugby World Cup quarter-final.

He and injured teammate Israel Dagg were at the Mac's Brewbar in Takapuna on Thursday.

Stunned bar patrons have told how the two backline stars appeared to be swaying and slurring their words.

When police showed up for a regulation check, bar staff "hid" the players in the bar's kitchen.

Contrast the actions of the bar staff in that last line to those of Jonathan Dixon, the scumbag doorman at Altitude, who is quite rightly in court today, charged with illegally accessing a computer and stealing CCTV footage:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/91017/queenstown-bouncer-elects-trial-by-jury

Here's Doug Howlett apologising for getting wasted in Cardiff in 2007 and trashing a few people's cars, (good on him for facing the music in this way):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsBYeZ-W0NE

Do you recall France coach Marc Lievremont calling “some of his players "spoiled brats" for ignoring orders not to go out after their semi-final win over Wales”?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/15325709.stm
”The coach nevertheless dismissed his players' night out as "incidental".”
In fact, Lievremont was more upset when the players didn’t want to have a drink:
"I would have liked for us to gather around a few drinks yesterday... and I was disappointed," said Lièvremont. "I got us some beers to release the pressure and we all split in different directions. It's a kind of disappointment."
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oct/02/marc-lievremont-france-tonga-england)

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Pretzel November 14, 2011 11:17 pm

I mean from this world cup tour... I get that "stuff happens" but with the media coverage in this world common sense must prevail....

...and if your captain doesn't have common sense.... you're f*cked...

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stroudos November 15, 2011 10:35 am

Jane and Dagg were hammered in an Auckland pub two days before the final of THIS world cup tour. The French, Australians, Russians, even the Welsh got through their fair share of drinking on THIS tour.

The only difference is that the media coverage you refer to was incredibly intense on England and far more lenient/disinterested for other teams. What really sticks in the craw is that it's the English press that put the England team under such unfair scrutiny. These people are low-life scum (as evidenced by the Leveson inquiry going on at the moment). I also suspect many of them are failed sportsmen themselves with a chip on their shoulder and a massive inferiority complex.

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Pretzel November 16, 2011 8:47 pm

....ok, here is a question... How do YOU know the English media were so intense and focussed on the England team?

This is not me trying to disprove you, but the fact is if YOU knew, then the PLAYERS should know, therefore the smart move would be to allow common sense to prevail and be somewhat sensible, no?

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stroudos November 13, 2011 11:39 am



Buzz, sadly, your claim that the "English media will take aim at all your teams and we'll see how saintly you are" in 2015 is wide of the mark. As always, they will be obsessed with trying to undermine their own team.

My theory, having met a few sports journalists - or "grubby hacks" to be more accurate - is that the few who've actually played the game have massive chips on their shoulders brought about by the failure to achieve what the professionals have. Just pure jealousy, that's all it is.

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BuzzKillington November 13, 2011 2:30 pm

Lol, they don't care stroudos. The "OMG Rugby players are no better than football players" is a very popular news report in Britian. You will see, when these teams are in England there will be so many scandals. I wouldn't be surprised if the IRB bring in rules so that nobody can drink in 2015. Because they'll be a media onslaught over every little thing. You're right that they hate England most though, because "OMG England, look how shit we are without the Empire" is another popular media agenda in this country. The Daily Mail have a field day whenever England does something wrong at anything.

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Pretzel November 13, 2011 8:40 pm

With regards to the following:
"
Bloody hell mate, do you watch Fox News and support American foreign policy too brother. Is everything the media focuses on the truth? I suppose Iran are the most dangerous nation ever and the world will implode if they have the capacity to enrich uranium also? And Obama is the second coming of Jesus too?"

Nope, I do not watch Fox news. American foreign Policy is not something I care to follow with any great care. No not everything the media focuses on is the truth, however wake up and realise that law suits can easily follow mis-truths these days. Iran... Perhaps not he most dangerous nation, but perhaps so hell bent in their ways that they MIGHT ACTUALLY use something nuclear... As for Obama... take him or leave him, seems like he is trying to set up an American version of the NHS, so as long as its not bled dry by those who do not work and do not belong as is apparently the case in the UK (so I have read) it might be a good set up....

As for me having something hidden in the background with regards to the England team... incorrect, I have nothing against them, I was actually truly disappointed by their performance this year and felt they had a lot more to give than they did. I feel the ability is there however indiscipline was a key factor in their entire tour both on the pitch and off it. If however they decided to get hammered in their hotel bar then at least they would have been out of public eye and the shit storm that follows anything like that could have been avoided!

(It's not illegal if the ref didn't see it!)

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rugby6 November 11, 2011 10:08 pm

I think the truth hasnt actually come out but Mike has been the scapegoat. I suppose when they went on the America's cup boat and set of the life jackets for a laugh didnt happen either !!!

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i love bacon November 12, 2011 1:57 am

Is there a regulatory body that doesn't appear to be run by a bunch of non-rugby-playing cockbags? These guys at the RFU seem all-too-similar to the easily-offended policy lovers are the IRB. Jaysus, it's like France being fined for getting "too close" to the fucking haka, or RFU "investigating" the fatter Armitage for his bitching on twitter (though, to be fair, what self-respecting forward uses twitter? RD exempt because it's for the site...).

All the panties getting twisted with the regulatory bodies seems to be an unfortunate consequence of professionalization. They want to keep the sport in good repute, and think that by making examples of players of fringe examples of wild behavior, they're doing something about it.

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i love bacon November 12, 2011 2:08 am

I'm still trying to figure out what Tindall did exactly, other than go out an enjoy some beers, the company of some ladies, and something rather about midgets. I wonder if the RFU is mad because they're jealous they didn't have the chance to tag along? That sounds like a pretty mild evening for many rugby players...no property damaged, no one ending up in a hospital, no one thrown out of the bar...must've been pretty well-behaved.

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stroudos November 12, 2011 1:39 pm

"what self-respecting forward uses twitter?"

Brilliant!!

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Tex15 November 12, 2011 3:00 am

This is ridiculous! The RFU are blatantly trying to make up for Englands poor RWC performance on the field by blaming it on events off the field. Mike Tindall is clearly being used as a scapegoat for the RFU. while I don't think he would get into a proper England team with proler management (another subject entirely!) kicking him out is complete rubbish. One of the best things about rugby is that the players are normal people and will join you in the pub after a game, not some sort of celebrity that would never interact with the general public. I can't believe the RFU are punishing thier own players for what 99% of us rugby players do, enjoy ourselves on and off the pitch and not act like stuck up footballers!

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flyingpepper November 12, 2011 3:45 am

Its a joke, the RFU are trying to look professional after being a mess for the last year, how long does it take to appoint a chairman? Carling got in trouble for calling them all old farts and little has changed. Shows there true character when they will use a player like Tindall as an escape goat and hang him out to dry like this. Iwasn't ashamed to call myself english after the world cup, just disappointed. But after this mess that has been caused by the media and the RFU reaction I am now ashamed.

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BuzzKillington November 12, 2011 3:45 pm

An escape goat - A bit like a Trojan horse but an escape goat helps you get out of a situation.

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IrishRef November 12, 2011 11:42 am

the RFU is a total shambles right now. But now it would seem they're not only harming the english rugby team (their coaching set up has been staid for a few years now) but also the reputation of players seems fair game with this justice.

Martin Johnson, whatever your opinion of him as player or coach, was always a very loyal person. This public flogging of the players smells like something out of his control. I wonder if he'll look at this and say f-you to continuing in the job.

but let's be honest, there were a number of incidents around the england team - some exaggerated but many plain as day - serious issue with discipline in camp england during the world cup.

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Pretzel November 12, 2011 7:51 pm

Thats my point, MJ is extremely loyal (as you put it) therefore publicly flogging his own stand in captain after being mislead about a night out is not something that promotes a good image. Especially not one that shows commitment and responsibilities. Had Ashton and Manu gone out on the piss, I could turn around and say, well look, they are young, they were obviously going to be a real pain in the arse on the tour. Just kick them in the backside and lets get on with it. But Tindall should have "known better". So personally I think the England behaviour put MJ over a barrel, he could have turned round and gone all Lievremont and said "they are all brats" or he could show unity amongst the England camp and defend Tindalls actions (whilst inside wanting to ring his neck!)

I said before the number of incidents just tallied up and up, I was left waiting to hear the next thing, and surprise surprise it was another English mishap.

In my eyes England didn't look like they wanted to be there in the context they were. They didn't look ready for a world cup, it seemed a bit like a team building holiday to New Zealand rather than 30+ men going over there to actually stamp their feet, stand their ground and show the world they were the best team in the world.

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Pretzel November 12, 2011 7:51 pm

Thats my point, MJ is extremely loyal (as you put it) therefore publicly flogging his own stand in captain after being mislead about a night out is not something that promotes a good image. Especially not one that shows commitment and responsibilities. Had Ashton and Manu gone out on the piss, I could turn around and say, well look, they are young, they were obviously going to be a real pain in the arse on the tour. Just kick them in the backside and lets get on with it. But Tindall should have "known better". So personally I think the England behaviour put MJ over a barrel, he could have turned round and gone all Lievremont and said "they are all brats" or he could show unity amongst the England camp and defend Tindalls actions (whilst inside wanting to ring his neck!)

I said before the number of incidents just tallied up and up, I was left waiting to hear the next thing, and surprise surprise it was another English mishap.

In my eyes England didn't look like they wanted to be there in the context they were. They didn't look ready for a world cup, it seemed a bit like a team building holiday to New Zealand rather than 30+ men going over there to actually stamp their feet, stand their ground and show the world they were the best team in the world.

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benh3110 November 12, 2011 1:35 pm

WHAT GOES ON TOUR STAYS ON TOUR!! unless your english in which case your get in trouble for just about everything you do!

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pierre lesage November 12, 2011 3:18 pm

As a non-englis am happy to see them wiped on the field but this crxp on TIndall & co is pathetic and embarasing for rugby in general. Woofter Andrew should p off back to where he came from and let a better man take his role.
Crazy!

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Just Call Me Ehtch November 12, 2011 7:14 pm

What a silly billy. What was going through his mind! Decides do marry into the Royal Family, then instantly then fecks them right off. But then again.......

oh I don't know. Horsey wimmin have always had funny choices of men, I have noticed, if no-one else has noticed.

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4LC4TR4Z November 12, 2011 8:54 pm

Not the first time that Royal family get married with a no brainer, isn't it ?
:-D

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stroudos November 14, 2011 5:10 pm

Very true Ehtch. Every one of them an absolute "goer" as well. Bunch of nymphos. Fact.

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Just Call Me Ehtch November 15, 2011 7:58 am

They should ban "young ladies" from a stallion-filly mating sessions, I say, stroudos. They're eyes pop out when that elephant trunk/fifth leg comes out. : ) "Young ladies" are never the same again, innocence lost forever. But Mike hasn't minded that, no doubt.

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felix November 14, 2011 8:25 pm

can't believe with all this measured argument, we haven't heard more about how bad Mike Tindall is.
the lesson is this - if you are a good player you get away with anything (george best in football - Dagg and Jane in the RWC ). If on the other hand you are a one-dimensional, anachronism, with all the dynamism of a boulder then sorry Mike, you get hammered by the media and the RFU and your international career FINALLY comes to an end way after it should have.
he's a nice guy though and quite amusing so i'm sure he'll have a decent tv career to fall back on!

i also really cannot believe that after previous trips to NZ, the England team haven't learnt to send one sober guy out with the team to chaperone them if they insist on going to bars and nightclubs and getting wasted. soooo simple.

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stroudos November 15, 2011 11:05 am

Bit wide of the mark, I think. The press should have been focusing on players' ability on the pitch and, if they thought Tins wasn't performing well on the pitch a detailed analysis in any of the newspapers would have been very welcome, (but see jeppy89's post below for a very robust case for the defence). Instead all we got was "celebrity" tittle-tattle and paid-for baseless accusations.

I see Lewis Moody and Jonny Wilkinson mention in their books how they could tell things were getting out of hand at Altitude bar, so they made their excuses and left. Well, these are two of the most senior guys in the whole squad, one of them the captain. If they felt that strongly they should have done a Weepu and dragged the boys back to the hotel. Abdication of leadership if you ask me - and yes, of course, that goes for Tindall too.

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jeppy89 November 15, 2011 5:29 am

Tindall should never play for the team again. We have 4 years until the next event and now we need to build, I would remove near enough any player over the age of 26. The potential quality we have in the youth is huge, and they now have experience but they need to learn responsibility, you cant get that if your differing to the old hands. Flood, Youngs, Wood, Lawes etc they have to stand for themselves not behind, JW, Moody and co.

However any rugby fan that questions Tindall's ability and place in the team, should start watching football as they clearly have missed the point of rugby. There isnt a centre in the world that controls the defensive line as well as him. Just because he doesnt run and step or take the limelight he's disregarded as too slow and one dimensional, Ridiculous! How many times has he ever been done for pace? how many missed tackles has he ever made? so he doesnt score 50m tries, have the trolls that critcise him stop to think about how many he assist?

anyone remember the grubber kick against Ireland? Anyone know who put tualigi in for his try in that games? anyone like to hazard a guess at how many pool stage tries he was involved in? Just as a pointer in the last 4 england games that Tindall's played in england conceded 0 tries in the 2 that he didnt they conceded 3. Both the tries england conceded against france can be blamed on poor defence, Manu flew up and out of the line something hes renowned for, and had rightly been pointed out as a significant flaw in his game, He didnt do that once along side Tindall.


you have to have a solid and intelligent defence before you can build a game around attack, with out Tindall england dont have this.

Just as an extra.....you all know about that awesome try, the ashton one that we will cling to and talk about for years? that try didnt start with ashton, it didnt start with lawes and it didnt even start with ben youngs, that try started with a turn over, il let you guess who turned it.

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jeppy89 November 15, 2011 5:29 am

Tindall should never play for the team again. We have 4 years until the next event and now we need to build, I would remove near enough any player over the age of 26. The potential quality we have in the youth is huge, and they now have experience but they need to learn responsibility, you cant get that if your differing to the old hands. Flood, Youngs, Wood, Lawes etc they have to stand for themselves not behind, JW, Moody and co.

However any rugby fan that questions Tindall's ability and place in the team, should start watching football as they clearly have missed the point of rugby. There isnt a centre in the world that controls the defensive line as well as him. Just because he doesnt run and step or take the limelight he's disregarded as too slow and one dimensional, Ridiculous! How many times has he ever been done for pace? how many missed tackles has he ever made? so he doesnt score 50m tries, have the trolls that critcise him stop to think about how many he assist?

anyone remember the grubber kick against Ireland? Anyone know who put tualigi in for his try in that games? anyone like to hazard a guess at how many pool stage tries he was involved in? Just as a pointer in the last 4 england games that Tindall's played in england conceded 0 tries in the 2 that he didnt they conceded 3. Both the tries england conceded against france can be blamed on poor defence, Manu flew up and out of the line something hes renowned for, and had rightly been pointed out as a significant flaw in his game, He didnt do that once along side Tindall.


you have to have a solid and intelligent defence before you can build a game around attack, with out Tindall england dont have this.

Just as an extra.....you all know about that awesome try, the ashton one that we will cling to and talk about for years? that try didnt start with ashton, it didnt start with lawes and it didnt even start with ben youngs, that try started with a turn over, il let you guess who turned it.

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stroudos November 15, 2011 10:48 am

Fantastic post jeppy89. Nice to see someone actually giving Tindall the credit he deserves.

Also, as you quite rightly say, even with all that considered, with four years to build to the next world cup, which he'll not realistically be involved in, it's time for him to make way and allow young players to develop the experience they need.

But such a loyal servant to the game, who does so much of the less glamorous but doubly important work around the pitch, a world cup winner and veteran of at least two 6nations grand slams, has earned the right to a more graceful exit than this.

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Colombes November 15, 2011 11:16 am

i think there is no need to shot more on tindall. The guy have screwed his captain legitimity and maybe his mariage by flirting, but after all it's his own problem.
The fact that a player lost the plot shouldn't erase what he has done in his career.

i feel the rfu chiefs decision in this manner:

Save their ass and show their strenght that they can sanction the WC players despite their rebellion. but how hypocrit it is, just to sanction Tindall if u can blame someone !!! How easy it is to sanction advitam eternam a player who was retiring from the national team, than, of course, put a ban, to future players like ashton, hartley, haskell, tuilagi... financial sanctions? what a pure hypocrisy.
and what is the message to Johnno? that he couldn't deal with his players and is not master of the situation, genius really...

this rfu is maybe in shambles but to make escape their best players, they are still champions (i won't talk about armitage who is still saved by the same committee thx to his "unbelievable" behaviour and contrition at court)

i hope all the best to the english team and staff for the 6N, but somethin must happen with this shameless rfu, they are ruining their honour in pure hypocrisy

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Just Call Me Ehtch November 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Tindall has seroiusly let his nation down. He has carried on as if he hasn't a nation, like Cliff Richard, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQRytgGffV4

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Just Call Me Ehtch November 17, 2011 4:01 pm

ok, his dad was calling him a poufter, then, and he noticed. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Just wished Cliff would have not have confused all these Wimbledon tennis ladies, and just come out.

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Just Call Me Ehtch November 17, 2011 7:48 pm

any chance of a hand with my backhand, Cliff? 8 )

only joking, I am straight, honest, but... ok bicurious. No.only joking, maybe

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