Tuesday, May 08, 2012
Jim Hamilton and David Paice shown red cards after being sin-binned
Jim Hamilton and David Paice are set to face a disciplinary hearing following the brawl they sparked at the Madjeski Stadium on Saturday. Both players were shown yellow cards, resumed fighting, then were sent off with reds cards.
Having come to blows and exchanged a few quick shots, both players were sin-binned by referee Dave Pearson, but when walking off had another go after it looked like Paice got too verbal.
A massive brawl ensued, with blows flying freely and a few players probably lucky to have not been cited. Hamilton and Paice were called back and red carded, and will appear in front of a Rugby Football Union disciplinary committee on Thursday this week.
"Jim Hamilton was the instigator and then when they were both yellow carded Hamilton has punched David Paice twice in the head and split him open and he has a dozen stitches in his forehead, and the all-in started from there," said London Irish director of rugby Brian Smith.
"Hamilton has got a lot to answer for - it’s not the 1970s. It was a blight on the game. He is a Test player but I would be surprised if he plays any Test footy this summer because it was a disgrace," he added, referring to Scotland's upcoming tour of Australia, Fiji, and Samoa.
Hooker Paice on the other hand, capped twice by England and having played regularly with the Saxons, may have ruined his chances of selection for England's tour of South Africa.
London Irish scored six tries and won the game 52-18, after having led 34-11 at half time.
Check out the Related Posts below the video for a selection of mass brawls, and tell us, if you were making the decisions on Thursday, what suspensions would you hand out?
Update - 10 May 2012: Both players have been suspended for 7 weeks each
Posted at 11:05 am | 49 comments
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French Rugby Mayhem & Tana Umaga Red Card
Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play
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Viewing 49 comments
Magners Original May 08, 2012 12:14 pm
that London irish number 8 treviranus got the best shots in! he has to be sighted for them digs he threw!
T May 08, 2012 12:16 pm
The London Irish coach is a tad bias. Paice made the first physical contact (and seemingly the chirps) in the second clash after they were both yellow-carded. Hamilton just ended the discussion.
SD May 08, 2012 12:34 pm
Couldn't agree more. Hamilton made the first 'shove' before the first fracas, after which Paice obviously went gunning for him then tackled him off the ball! Then after the yellows, they can't excessively punish Hamilton just for being a better fighter. Paice reached out first, after - as you say - apparently instigating vocally.
Full Back May 08, 2012 8:22 pm
..just a tad? I'd add delusional after having watched the clip. For me Paice started both incidents and also their number 8 and 5 were swinging away there. Bit of a cheek to say that Hamilton has something to answer for imo.
Jonathan May 08, 2012 12:16 pm
I feel that the red card was adequate enough. No further punishment as it was foul play from both players, rather than just one
thunor May 08, 2012 12:16 pm
I think Hamilton is in need of some anger management classes :-).
warboys May 08, 2012 4:57 pm
He didnt start is Paice shouldn't start things he cant finish
thunor May 09, 2012 2:56 am
I agree that Paice started it and I have no sympathy for him, but that isn't much defence for Hamilton trying to punch and/or headbutt him.
Getting red carded for any reason disadvantages your team by ensuring your unavailability for selection (due to suspension), and puts you in bad stead in any future citings (accidental or otherwise) - having 'history' means a longer ban.
I wasn't particularly commenting on who was 'less wrong'.
Anyway, the worst bit was surely the #8 who was just bashing random people without provocation. Trashy behaviour that should be left to football fans methinks...
Getting red carded for any reason disadvantages your team by ensuring your unavailability for selection (due to suspension), and puts you in bad stead in any future citings (accidental or otherwise) - having 'history' means a longer ban.
I wasn't particularly commenting on who was 'less wrong'.
Anyway, the worst bit was surely the #8 who was just bashing random people without provocation. Trashy behaviour that should be left to football fans methinks...
Pretzel May 08, 2012 12:33 pm
Gotta love French rugby... oh..wait...Honestly, it was a blast from the past. Those French club games where everyone gets involved, people doing the old windmill arms etc...
I saw Hamilton (sort of) start it by pushing the hooker in the back, however you run in the way slowly like that and you leave yourself open to it. The hooker then comes in (with what appears to be revenge in his mind) and rucks Hamilton, I didn't really see anything happen between them but the punches just started.
For me it should have just ended there with a penalty. I didn't think that incident warranted a yellow card. The referee however felt it did and both were sent from the field.
I saw the hooker say something to Hamilton and give him a push, (looks like the hooker started the second bout) Hamilton threw a mighty punch to draw blood there.
The red cards I do not have a problem with when you view with context. As I said, I would not have issued yellows initially anyway, so there would never be red cards, but to fight RIGHT after a yellow card is showing no consideration for the referee's punishment... He tells you to sit down and calm down and you ignore it then you have no care for anything he says, therefore I can see how the red's were justified.
No further action needed in my opinion. Not sure what Brian Smith was on about, I think Hamilton was no more at fault than Paice, it just looks like Hamilton got the upper hand with his punches.
I don't see any reason why either of them should have their international options restricted or thwarted because of this. It was not a highlight of the game of rugby, but it is not as low as others... Leave it at the red and perhaps a week to cool off at the most.. (Are there any more club games to play?)..
I saw Hamilton (sort of) start it by pushing the hooker in the back, however you run in the way slowly like that and you leave yourself open to it. The hooker then comes in (with what appears to be revenge in his mind) and rucks Hamilton, I didn't really see anything happen between them but the punches just started.
For me it should have just ended there with a penalty. I didn't think that incident warranted a yellow card. The referee however felt it did and both were sent from the field.
I saw the hooker say something to Hamilton and give him a push, (looks like the hooker started the second bout) Hamilton threw a mighty punch to draw blood there.
The red cards I do not have a problem with when you view with context. As I said, I would not have issued yellows initially anyway, so there would never be red cards, but to fight RIGHT after a yellow card is showing no consideration for the referee's punishment... He tells you to sit down and calm down and you ignore it then you have no care for anything he says, therefore I can see how the red's were justified.
No further action needed in my opinion. Not sure what Brian Smith was on about, I think Hamilton was no more at fault than Paice, it just looks like Hamilton got the upper hand with his punches.
I don't see any reason why either of them should have their international options restricted or thwarted because of this. It was not a highlight of the game of rugby, but it is not as low as others... Leave it at the red and perhaps a week to cool off at the most.. (Are there any more club games to play?)..
Morgan May 08, 2012 12:46 pm
Agree with you there Pretzel!
I'm not sure what Hamilton was supposed to do when Paice came back at him with what looked like the full intention to start fighting again. Just because Hamilton got some bigger and better hits in does not make him the more guilty party - rather the much bigger and more accurate and punching party.
I can hear the `What about the children' brigade bleating on already. I would show the footage to my son and tell him that after all that, they probably had a beer together after the match.
I'm not sure what Hamilton was supposed to do when Paice came back at him with what looked like the full intention to start fighting again. Just because Hamilton got some bigger and better hits in does not make him the more guilty party - rather the much bigger and more accurate and punching party.
I can hear the `What about the children' brigade bleating on already. I would show the footage to my son and tell him that after all that, they probably had a beer together after the match.
Tex15 May 08, 2012 12:49 pm
Good to see some unbiased comments on here. After reading the description and watching the video I was prepared to say how completely biased the London Irish coach was, but it appears to have already been commented on. Would have been nice to see RD add some balance to the write up though and say something, if not in Hamilton's defence, then at least to mention that it was Paice that started the 2nd fight and not anything like the Irish coach said.
On another note Treviranus has got to be cited for at least one of the punches he through at the end of the fight! I have no problem with a bit of a dust up when both players are going at it, but he was just swinging punches at people trying to calm the fight down.
On another note Treviranus has got to be cited for at least one of the punches he through at the end of the fight! I have no problem with a bit of a dust up when both players are going at it, but he was just swinging punches at people trying to calm the fight down.
cheyanqui May 08, 2012 12:52 pm
The London Irish coach is a bit rich calling Hamilton a blight on the game, considering the altar boys he has on his team.
As for the 2nd dust-up, Paice made the initial contact by grabbing Hamilton. Hamilton's a no-nonsense guy and took it as an invitation.
As for the London Irish #8, those first few punches were dog hits, plain and simple. It should be no surprise if there is hard discipline meted on Trevir's anus.
As for the 2nd dust-up, Paice made the initial contact by grabbing Hamilton. Hamilton's a no-nonsense guy and took it as an invitation.
As for the London Irish #8, those first few punches were dog hits, plain and simple. It should be no surprise if there is hard discipline meted on Trevir's anus.
This comment has been removed
themull May 08, 2012 1:12 pm
I'm only 40 seconds in and as of right now, number 2 (paice) deserves the vast majority of the blame...He gets a little push off the ball, then as a ruck forms he goes for the guy that pushed him and begins swinging digs..Now just before I've paused it he is throwing digs with his opponents back turned..
themull May 08, 2012 1:14 pm
Yes and then as they're walking off he instigates it again, not only by his non stop jabbering but he also pushes the guy again...Paice deserves the bans if there are any and nothing extra for Hamilton..
thamesrowingclub May 08, 2012 1:52 pm
That was a good one, reminded me of old Kevin Tamati! I got green #2 as instigator of both mixups. Fighting is one thing, fighting on your way to the sin bin is another. The green #8 did some nasty stuff as a third man, when his teammate was holding the other guy. Third man in in a two way tussle is bogus. A week off for green 2 and 8. Nothing at all for red. Nobody needs to have their club or test career ruined.
Pretzel has it right! Thanks for a bit of common sense and proportion buddy.
Pretzel has it right! Thanks for a bit of common sense and proportion buddy.
BuzzKillington May 08, 2012 4:07 pm
Dowling - Tamati indeed, you don't have to look that far back though, there was a fight in League last year between Manly and Storm that was a carbon copy of this and Tamati - Dowling.
Interesting that you don't think red should get anything, even though he opened up green with a significant headbutt. Headbutts are always worth bans no matter the circumstance, don't think i can recall anyone getting away with using the head in a scrap.
I would say 2 weeks for green 2 and 8. Hamilton I expect will receive the longest ban. He was provoked, but that isn't a defence, it didn't work for Manu Tuilagi when Ashton ran up and gave him a push while kneeing him in his back, can't see how it will work for Hamilton, especially when you factor in his use of the head(even though it looked more clumsy than anything, but that defence doesn't work in boxing either)
Good stuff all round
Interesting that you don't think red should get anything, even though he opened up green with a significant headbutt. Headbutts are always worth bans no matter the circumstance, don't think i can recall anyone getting away with using the head in a scrap.
I would say 2 weeks for green 2 and 8. Hamilton I expect will receive the longest ban. He was provoked, but that isn't a defence, it didn't work for Manu Tuilagi when Ashton ran up and gave him a push while kneeing him in his back, can't see how it will work for Hamilton, especially when you factor in his use of the head(even though it looked more clumsy than anything, but that defence doesn't work in boxing either)
Good stuff all round
flanker2712 May 08, 2012 5:19 pm
Glad to see someone else saw the headbutts. I am not sure it was clumsy - watch it over and over again and it looks like the intention was to make contact with the headbutt and the swinging arm was a disguise. The punches appear to glance off Paice's cheek.
BuzzKillington May 08, 2012 6:03 pm
When he threw the second punch he definitely used his head purposely imo, and that will be the one that cut him if you were to ask me. But I know others aren't going to clock on or acknowledge that it was done on purpose (we're a smarter breed of dirty rugby players lol) so I thought I'd cover all basis with the inevitable "it came in contact accidentally" calls that will come
Pretzel May 09, 2012 4:20 am
I don't see the head butt, I thought I saw it in the replays at around 2:55 ish, however there is no depth perception to that camera angle, but during the livetime footage from 1:00, there is no headbutt... After the second punch Hamilton tucks his head down and in, but I see no connection which could be assumed to be a headbutt...
BuzzKillington May 09, 2012 5:37 pm
I spotted the headbutt in real time and again in replay. There's no other explanation for the cut. That girl punch couldn't have done it.
Pretzel May 09, 2012 10:36 pm
Try learning to punch, its not that hard to produce a nasty cut with a decent punch...
Cmon84 May 08, 2012 2:53 pm
Absolutely agree with all of the above, Paice is clearly at fault here.
Gotta love the water 'boy' though; will help in breaking up a fight, but doesn't like to let go of his bottles. Absolute legend.
Who are these guys generally (replacements, medical staff?)
Gotta love the water 'boy' though; will help in breaking up a fight, but doesn't like to let go of his bottles. Absolute legend.
Who are these guys generally (replacements, medical staff?)
Aj_81 May 08, 2012 3:46 pm
Yeah they are member of the club staff, Mostly Physio/Medical.
cheyanqui May 08, 2012 3:02 pm
Love the dust up on the way to the sin bin.
All the folks that piss and moan about the French leagues can see that it can happen in prim and proper England.
All the folks that piss and moan about the French leagues can see that it can happen in prim and proper England.
Miler May 08, 2012 5:21 pm
Irish hooker started both incidents ... Smith should look to his own first ..Hooker got was coming .. and deserved .. get yer own house in order Smithy ...
Miler May 08, 2012 5:25 pm
1.18 secs watch the LI no 11 get a cheap shot in the back of the head of Glos no 18
MattyP May 08, 2012 5:31 pm
I didn't think the 2 YCs were a bad idea since tempers were obviously flaring and a little settling down was required. But a bad error by Dave Pearson to send them off, under the circumstances, at the same time. Separate the awarding, get one player clear, then the next. If you break up two blokes who were just going at it, don't cool it down, and ask them to walk off the field effectively next to each other, this result shouldn't be a surprise.
Will be interesting to see if there are any other citing, e.g. for the little shove on the AR.
And Paice is an idiot for trying to take him on a second time. He got what was coming to him.
Will be interesting to see if there are any other citing, e.g. for the little shove on the AR.
And Paice is an idiot for trying to take him on a second time. He got what was coming to him.
Tanora May 08, 2012 6:15 pm
Dammit! You got there ahead of me, I was just about to write the same thing. I totally agree with you that Pearson handled that awfully. I've seen refs send one guy to the bin, then wait, then send the next guy to the bin. I've long thought Pearson a tool though, not surprised he cocked up.
BarryT May 08, 2012 6:12 pm
poor old linesman took a tumble during the second bout, agree with most of the above, hooker started most of it, just because hamilton landed better punches doesn't mean he should get a bigger ban, 3 weeks for the 2 of them me thinks
J May 08, 2012 7:29 pm
actually hamilton triggers it by pushing paice over from behind, off the ball (about 12/13 seconds into the video)
wizard3 May 08, 2012 11:10 pm
Welshman here trying to pass comment so look out! Right, the way I see it, Hamilton shouldn't have pushed Paice, but it was hardly crime of the century. I can see the majority of players doing much the same. However, it certainly didn't justify Paice chasing big Jim down like a crazy man! That SHOULD have been that though. Regardless of the ref's decision to put both men in the bin at the same time, how often do we see players shake hands on the way off etc. Paice goes OTT for the second time - upset at taking a battering probably, BUT as a few people have mentioned, Treviranus needs sorting out. He clips a few people who aren't really involved. The most noticeable being at the bottom of the screen when he hits Shaun Knight I believe, Knight is about to go after him and then gets dropped by an absolute peach of a punch from Taqicakibau (who incidentally moves stage right as quickly as he can!)
mendorugger May 08, 2012 11:18 pm
Agreed that both players should receive equal citation/punishment for the altercation. What blew me away was no mention of the London Irish number 8 who is plainly punching a man bent over in the skirmish and then continues to throw bombs on people who are coming to break it up. What a cowardly move. If your squared up with a guy that's one thing, but to just be throwing sucker punches at random no ones is horse manure. That man should be cited and restricted from play. Makes me sick to my stomach to see that kind of cowardliness from whats supposed to be our top level players. Barf to you #8.
Richard Church Keen May 09, 2012 11:36 am
what a muppet Smith is.... Hamilton pushed Paice over for trying to block him, Paice then charges offside to attack a much bigger guy who gives back what he gets, then on the way off, Paice gets gobby and pushes Jim who again responds.... so how is Jim the instigator??? London Irish are the dirtiest team in the league anyway, look at the various Armitage/Hala'Ufia citings, so are they trying to deflect blame? I don't think Jim 'headbutts' either, as Paice is clearly pulling him forward and down, Ice Hockey style to get him off balance and down to his height.....
Pretzel May 09, 2012 10:35 pm
I agree, there was no head butt. He tucked his head right down after landing the two punches...
Guy May 09, 2012 12:57 pm
As for entertainment value: great spectacle, loved every second of it.
But to be honest: I hope this gets dealt with properly. Don't ignore referees orders and don't let yourself get pulled into this kind of behaviour. Kids that are watching this should know that this is not the way we play the game nowadays. And since they will copy anything that they see on tv, in my opinion the message should be clear.
PS: finally someone who knows how to land a proper punch ;-)
PS2 RD: any change that you can upload that link of two NZ front rowers that had a biff on the field, got sent to the sin bin and landed next to each other on two tiny chairs for 10 minutes?
But to be honest: I hope this gets dealt with properly. Don't ignore referees orders and don't let yourself get pulled into this kind of behaviour. Kids that are watching this should know that this is not the way we play the game nowadays. And since they will copy anything that they see on tv, in my opinion the message should be clear.
PS: finally someone who knows how to land a proper punch ;-)
PS2 RD: any change that you can upload that link of two NZ front rowers that had a biff on the field, got sent to the sin bin and landed next to each other on two tiny chairs for 10 minutes?
Rugbydump May 10, 2012 1:32 pm
I think this is the one you mean?
Clint Newland unleashes on Pek Cowan in Queenstown
Clint Newland unleashes on Pek Cowan in Queenstown
cheyanqui May 10, 2012 4:33 pm
love that one -- "fat man in a little chair" x 2
Guy May 11, 2012 7:50 am
That's just excellent. I searched for it everywhere, now it's right back in my all time top 10 favourite rugby clips.
Thanks a lot RD, love it!
Thanks a lot RD, love it!
Rugbydump May 13, 2012 11:38 am
No worries. Incidentally, you mention your all time top 10 fav.. do you realise that you can add a post to a favourite and easily access them via your profile page? I see you haven't done so on your profile yet - try it out.
Click Add to Favourites (just under the video when signed in), and it'll show on your profile page, eg: http://www.rugbydump.com/member/Rugbydump
Click Add to Favourites (just under the video when signed in), and it'll show on your profile page, eg: http://www.rugbydump.com/member/Rugbydump
trousershorts May 10, 2012 4:17 pm
haha I feel sorry for the two water guys and line judge! Maybe they'll get hazard pay :D
Doug May 11, 2012 1:41 pm
This is what should happen post dust-up on the way to the changing room, casual handshake, fight over:
http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/01/1766/scott-macleod-and-chris-fusaro-red-carded-for-derby-boxing
http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/01/1766/scott-macleod-and-chris-fusaro-red-carded-for-derby-boxing
Colombes May 11, 2012 3:02 pm
as someone said before,
it recalls me some of AMATEUR french rugby matchs with big brawls which always finish with a good drink in the closest bistrot
it recalls me some of AMATEUR french rugby matchs with big brawls which always finish with a good drink in the closest bistrot
Pretzel May 12, 2012 9:06 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFrpLziCfXI
Thats the video I was trying to find exactly the same, yellow card for fighting, walked off, fought when they were off, brought back for red cards!
Thats the video I was trying to find exactly the same, yellow card for fighting, walked off, fought when they were off, brought back for red cards!
Bert May 13, 2012 11:12 am
I think Hamilton has clearly ruined his chances of Captaining Glaws next season, with behaviour like that he'll be moth balled as an animal of the past.
Pretzel May 13, 2012 11:41 am
...because its the first time a captain has ever been red carded for fighting..
I think rugby in general needs to be mothballed, especially todays rugby. Bring back the rugby of the past... and I'm talking 6-7 years ago, not even "old day rugby"
I think rugby in general needs to be mothballed, especially todays rugby. Bring back the rugby of the past... and I'm talking 6-7 years ago, not even "old day rugby"
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