Friday, May 25, 2012
Carl Hayman suspended for four weeks for Zee Ngwenya spear tackle
Former All Black Carl Hayman will miss Toulon's Top 14 play-off game against Racing Metro this weekend after he was suspended for four weeks by an ERC disciplinary committee earlier today. If Toulon make the final, he will be unavailable for selection.
Prop Hayman commmitted the dangerous tackle on Biarritz wing Takudzwa Ngwenya during the Amlin Challenge Cup final last Friday night. He was immediately shown a yellow card by referee Wayne Barnes, with onlookers and commentators surprised by the leniency of the decision.
He lifted and tipped the USA flyer in a tackle that had all the ingredients to be a red card sending off. Independant judicial officer Christopher Quinlan felt the same way, deciding the offence warranted a mid-range entry point of a six week suspension.
Hayman accepted that he was wrong to commit the tackle, but insisted it was a yellow card offence only. Quinlan disagreed, but took three weeks off due to Hayman's good record and character, then added one as a deterrent for dangerous tackling.
He will miss the knockout stages of the Top 14 due to the ban, of which the first three weeks will expire on June 10, the day after the Top 14 final. Another week will be served during Toulon's pre-season period, when they play a fixture in late July.
Posted at 5:51 pm | 46 comments
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Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play
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Viewing 46 comments
Silky May 25, 2012 8:10 pm
why spear tackle? its so obvious, referee's are getting increasingly strict with spear tackles and with the introduction of white cards could mean further off the field penilties
cafnc1 May 26, 2012 4:09 am
why spear tackle? LOL! did you watch de replay? if you turn som1 beyond hirizontal and he lands on the ground, you're off, no question bout that. doesn't even matter if it's accidental. if you're not in a good position to make the guy land on his back (lower back, not the back of the neck) or the side of his body, just don't lift him, because you'll be in trouble.
Citing Commissioner May 25, 2012 8:20 pm
This is absolutely ridiculous. Maybe a bit of a "tip" but Hayman landed before the Ngwenya who landed on his front, I have never seen anyone break their neck by landed on their front. What is Ngwenya expecting when he runs through a pack of forwards with that body position - someone to shout "touch" then put the ball through his legs for the next phase.
Also I'm pretty disappointed with the commentators here, calling for a red card - for that?!?
Finally anyone else pick up on the headbutt? It's clear at 1:41, definitely more worthy of a ban than the tackle.
Also I'm pretty disappointed with the commentators here, calling for a red card - for that?!?
Finally anyone else pick up on the headbutt? It's clear at 1:41, definitely more worthy of a ban than the tackle.
Citing Commissioner May 25, 2012 8:24 pm
Also I've just realised the commentator said "you've got to put them back onto their feet" - somebody sack him on the grounds of incompetence at his job for not knowing the laws
Rugbydump May 25, 2012 8:48 pm
Yep, spotted the headbutt too, if that's what it was. He took it well
stroudos May 26, 2012 10:40 pm
There's a beautifully timed scream from somewhere (in the crowd I think) that coincides perfectly with Hayman's head rocking back.
cool calm and collected May 25, 2012 8:50 pm
Haha.....You can buy as many good players as you want Toulon, as clearly it has not affect on your trophy cabinet.
Reality May 25, 2012 9:16 pm
I agree with the previous comments. He obviously picked him up and brought him past the horizontal, but he absolutely did not drive him into the ground. It looks like he realised what he had done and tried to bring him back down horizontally, but Ngwenya's own weight made him fall top first towards the ground. A penalty, a yellow maybe, but no way a red.
Also, citing commissioner, I couldn't agree more with that 'put them back onto their feet' thing. Is he actually just stupid or what?
Also, citing commissioner, I couldn't agree more with that 'put them back onto their feet' thing. Is he actually just stupid or what?
stroudos May 26, 2012 10:43 pm
Sounds like the same commentator I recall from a few years ago describing a very good legal tackle as "a spear tackle, spear charge, whatever" - didn't have a clue then either and gives the impression he's never even played the game.
Ruggernut May 25, 2012 9:29 pm
I feel yellow was fair as it was reasonably clumsy. No way a red though. Although as a Welshman, I'm very against red cards after the RWC.
adrew May 25, 2012 10:02 pm
I agree with you Ruggernut! The problem with the RWC one was that your captain let go of the player so it made things look worse!
Ruggernut May 30, 2012 12:30 pm
Yeah it did look worse with the drop. Still just a clumsy challenge rather than any malicious intent.
Number11 May 25, 2012 9:31 pm
unsure about that, it looked like Van Niekerk had quite a bit to do, and seems to drag Ngwenya down at 0:50. i think yellow is fair but i don't agree with the commentator on the red
TechnoMouse May 25, 2012 9:46 pm
Yellow is fair I reckon... the commentator calling him a "cop out" seems to forget the ref sees everything in real time so doesn't have the luxury of watching slow motion replays many times over to judge the incident.
memberbenefits May 25, 2012 9:50 pm
Long time reader and all that jazz....
Wanted to comment caused I was outraged by the commentary. I was glad to see some of the comments here though. I think the speed and body angle he comes in at causes the problem and Hayman actually makes an effort to get him back. It looks like yellow but a harsh citing.
"Sam Warburton moment" me arse
Wanted to comment caused I was outraged by the commentary. I was glad to see some of the comments here though. I think the speed and body angle he comes in at causes the problem and Hayman actually makes an effort to get him back. It looks like yellow but a harsh citing.
"Sam Warburton moment" me arse
Charlie May 25, 2012 9:52 pm
I agree with Number11, there seem to have been a lot of players carded recently for tackles like this but it looks like in a gang tackle scenario where one goes high and one goes low, the wrapping done by the tackler going high is what puts the ball carrier into a dangerous position. Here Heymans is the main tackler and lifts Ngwenya but Van Niekerk as the assist looks like he is the one who pulls him past the horizontal. Could be wrong, anyone shed some light on this?
Clearly May 26, 2012 1:01 pm
I think that you're right about Van Niekerk. Haymans went in for a big tackle and it probably would have ended safely if Van Niekerk hadn't pulled him down. That's looking at it from Hayman's point of view though. From the point of view of rugby this was a dangerous moment that could easily have resulted in serious injury. As a father of a boy who's getting interested in rugby and a former player myself I don't want to see that kind of incident on a pitch regardless of the intention of the tackler. As a tackler you have to take responsibility for the conclusion of a tackle the moment you lift a player in the air and remove their control from the equation. IMO it doesn't matter that you didn't anticipate somebody else intervening. So while I don't think that there was any malice involved I do think that a red card is an appropriate response to this kind of incident.
WelshOsprey May 25, 2012 11:09 pm
cruel the way a spear tackle has become known as 'a sam warburton moment'
stroudos May 26, 2012 10:46 pm
I'm not sure it has, only by some inept commentators making inane comments.
mise May 25, 2012 11:16 pm
ahh hold on. He didnt succeed in driving the man into the ground head first, but the angle involved was extreme. That's a throw back to why they are sometimes called spear rather than tip tackles.
Hayman brought his legs up to an insanely high angle, we're talkin 150 degrees from the ground (hip height being 90). That could easily be a red.
Often a player gets sent off or a yellow for 90 degree tip and a reasonably safe put down, which is wrong (eg Ferris for irl vs Wales, when the player actually had a leg still on the floor). In this case, once the angle goes that high, at that speed, u have generate an out-of-control moment.
Hayman brought his legs up to an insanely high angle, we're talkin 150 degrees from the ground (hip height being 90). That could easily be a red.
Often a player gets sent off or a yellow for 90 degree tip and a reasonably safe put down, which is wrong (eg Ferris for irl vs Wales, when the player actually had a leg still on the floor). In this case, once the angle goes that high, at that speed, u have generate an out-of-control moment.
BarryT May 26, 2012 12:24 am
by the laws of the game, it is technically a red card! but i think this area of the game needs to get regulated and revised, I think they should go to the TMO over this and decide after a minute or two the appropriate action to be taken. There's always the side of whether ngwenya got injured or not, he could have easily be injured, and just because hayman intended not to hurt him, should that warrant him no red? Its a seriously vague area of the game in my opinion and i'd like to see it cleaned up.
Also Yachvilli is a slippery snake for that hand trip on the toulon scrum half!!
Also Yachvilli is a slippery snake for that hand trip on the toulon scrum half!!
Steve May 26, 2012 12:52 am
don't want to comment too much but I think this is a spear tackle and worthy of harsh punishment and I'm a kiwi, I agree with the Welsh bloke that's disrespectful to Sam he's a pretty clean player and doesn't deserve that I still think the Welsh were robbed and would have much rather have seen them in the final against our boys
Jon May 26, 2012 1:43 am
Why are refs and commentators so eager to give red cards?
Yellow is more than enough for this. It was completely accidental.
The thing abou tackling is that it's far from a science.Sometimes weight and momentum lifts a guy like Ngwenya got lfted here. The important thing is that Hayman, intentionally didn't drive him to the ground, or smash him into the ground head first. Ngwenya was absolutley fine after this. So yes, it was reckless and deserves a minor sanction, no it is not grounds for instant dimissal or a lengthy ban.
It seems like they have gone crazy for cards in European rugby. This is not soccer. Cards are not a regular part of the game like they are in that sport (and a damn good thing too). They never have been and shouldn't be.
Yellow is more than enough for this. It was completely accidental.
The thing abou tackling is that it's far from a science.Sometimes weight and momentum lifts a guy like Ngwenya got lfted here. The important thing is that Hayman, intentionally didn't drive him to the ground, or smash him into the ground head first. Ngwenya was absolutley fine after this. So yes, it was reckless and deserves a minor sanction, no it is not grounds for instant dimissal or a lengthy ban.
It seems like they have gone crazy for cards in European rugby. This is not soccer. Cards are not a regular part of the game like they are in that sport (and a damn good thing too). They never have been and shouldn't be.
Pretzel May 26, 2012 2:31 am
I was actually expecting to watch the video and think "what an outrage, perfectly legal fine tackle, rugby is getting soft..blah..blah..blah.." BUT
I actually kind of saw more of a red card in this than apparently the rest of you did..
If you look at Haymans technique, he goes in low, wraps his arms around the legs and then he ends up standing up... he did LIFT the player, well past the horizontal, and the player landed upper body first..
I sort of feel this was very close to being red card worthy...
A quick bit of advice, to the rest of you haranguing the commentators for saying red card, you might as well direct your attention to the governing body, because apparently they felt it was red card worthy as well...
Luckily I have something to consistently bitch about when I watch this video though, and that is the fact that ONCE AGAIN, the referee is not on the same hymn sheet as the governing bodies... We have seen it in the NH and the SH.. yellow cards are given and then players are banned...
IF ITS BAD ENOUGH FOR A BAN THEN IT IS BAD ENOUGH FOR A RED CARD!
WHY THE FOOOK WON'T SOMEBODY GET ALL THESE GUYS ONTO THE SAME PAGE!!!
I actually kind of saw more of a red card in this than apparently the rest of you did..
If you look at Haymans technique, he goes in low, wraps his arms around the legs and then he ends up standing up... he did LIFT the player, well past the horizontal, and the player landed upper body first..
I sort of feel this was very close to being red card worthy...
A quick bit of advice, to the rest of you haranguing the commentators for saying red card, you might as well direct your attention to the governing body, because apparently they felt it was red card worthy as well...
Luckily I have something to consistently bitch about when I watch this video though, and that is the fact that ONCE AGAIN, the referee is not on the same hymn sheet as the governing bodies... We have seen it in the NH and the SH.. yellow cards are given and then players are banned...
IF ITS BAD ENOUGH FOR A BAN THEN IT IS BAD ENOUGH FOR A RED CARD!
WHY THE FOOOK WON'T SOMEBODY GET ALL THESE GUYS ONTO THE SAME PAGE!!!
cafnc1 May 26, 2012 4:19 am
i guess red was right for this one. carl hayman must be like 1,90 tall or sumthin, how can he expect to lift a guy, stand up, and not get carded? really? maybe if he was lifting a second rower it wouldn't happen.
i don't know why players insist doing it. lift the player but stay low, don't fuckin stand up and hope for him to land safelly on a pillow. lifting a guy while staying low is much easier to put him on the ground and then going for the ball.
i don't know why players insist doing it. lift the player but stay low, don't fuckin stand up and hope for him to land safelly on a pillow. lifting a guy while staying low is much easier to put him on the ground and then going for the ball.
kadova June 04, 2012 12:44 am
Agreed with that. IMHO, red card if deserves a ban. IRB claims they want to stop these tackles, but these won't stop with yellow cards.
But more than everything else, when on earth will all the referees make the same decisions for the same tackles ?
But more than everything else, when on earth will all the referees make the same decisions for the same tackles ?
Battering Ram May 26, 2012 9:25 am
By the laws of the game, he should get a serious ban for that mullet.
Wedge May 26, 2012 9:43 am
Nothing wrong with Hayman's tackle......... excepting the fact that it is against the written law. Feel like the tip tackle area is one of hysteria right now. The index case was Umaga/Mealamu tackle on BOD which was clearly very dangerous 'cos he was driven down vertically on his head/neck - these cases should be the examples for lengthy - i.e. years-worth - of bans. Just lifting over 90 degrees is not in the same category and should be yellow at most (and this only as a deterrent to not do anything worse).
Annonymous May 26, 2012 10:41 am
The mullet alone is a red card. I guess it always looks worse in slow motion but it's still a crime.
Annonymous May 26, 2012 10:43 am
Mullet: Party at the back, business at the front.
themull May 26, 2012 12:04 pm
Compared to other "spear" tackles which have actually received red cards this is one of the worst I've seen..Certainly much much worse than Warburton's in the WC...
With that I still feel a yellow is fine...he tips him way past the horizontal so he comes down nearly vertical...That what I think should be penalty/yellow worthy...Not slightly past the horizontal where it is really no more dangerous than a normal tackle...
With that I still feel a yellow is fine...he tips him way past the horizontal so he comes down nearly vertical...That what I think should be penalty/yellow worthy...Not slightly past the horizontal where it is really no more dangerous than a normal tackle...
thamesrowingclub May 26, 2012 2:39 pm
"The laws say..." So CHANGE the laws. We do every year in rugby. I think the IRB is trying to sanitize the game for tv audiences in new markets or mothers or something. Very bad hairstyle.
4 game bans are for sucker punches and head butts, not screwed up tackles. PS Ngwenya should know better than to try to run through forwards at standing straight up.
4 game bans are for sucker punches and head butts, not screwed up tackles. PS Ngwenya should know better than to try to run through forwards at standing straight up.
Mitchell May 26, 2012 5:07 pm
Hard luck I think. Wouldn't have been as bad if his teammate didn't pull Ngwenya's top half down. Not a malicious player, and you see him going over and apologizing before he goes off. Definitely a yellow, but doubt it was his intention.
BroadwayJoeFYVM May 26, 2012 10:33 pm
Wai-wai-wai-WAITAMINUTE! Did I hear that right? Blind Man Barnes was the ref?
That explains everything.
That explains everything.
stroudos May 26, 2012 10:56 pm
Barnesy loves a good hard tackle and tends to be more lenient than most refs. I think in most cases Barnesy's right and the other refs (and citing officers) wrong. Most comments on here so far seem to concur with his view that this was a yellow offence, so I don't really understand why he gets so much grief. (Even from grudge-bearing Kiwis who must realise now that he actually had a decent performance in "that game" at RWC 07).
themull May 27, 2012 4:41 am
He gets grief because he makes a lot of poor decisions outside and inside of the tackle also..If im not mistake it was him that gave Ferris the yellow against Wales this year in 6 nations (not sure so correct me if im wrong)...
Barnes tends to miss a lot around ruck time and gives the penalties to the wrong team at ruck time too...From my point of view and from what ive watched of top club and international refs I always cringe when I see him in charge of a match in which either my club or country is playing in..Although he was very lenient towards leinster against clermont so i can't complain ha
Barnes tends to miss a lot around ruck time and gives the penalties to the wrong team at ruck time too...From my point of view and from what ive watched of top club and international refs I always cringe when I see him in charge of a match in which either my club or country is playing in..Although he was very lenient towards leinster against clermont so i can't complain ha
stroudos May 27, 2012 6:47 am
All right, that Ireland v Wales game - especially if you include the Davies yellow, (which should have been 100% red) - was not his finest hour...
brawnybalboa May 27, 2012 7:05 pm
All the IRB need to say is this:
'Legal' Tip Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND is brought safely to the ground (safe grounding excludes dropping the player allowing them to fall head first or driving the player into the ground).
Tip Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND results in him landing head first on the ground. Yellow Card
Spear Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND is driven into the ground head first. Red Card.
Hence a tackle that brings the players legs past horizontal that lands them on their head is a yellow card, unless they are intentionally driven into the ground which is a red. So tackles like those from the Wales Ireland game would be legalised, Sam Warburtons tackle would be a yellow card due to Clerc not being brought to ground safely.
Therefore tip tackles where the player is dumped onto their backs, or sides would not be an issue.
Or we could all tackle like Dan Lydiate
'Legal' Tip Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND is brought safely to the ground (safe grounding excludes dropping the player allowing them to fall head first or driving the player into the ground).
Tip Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND results in him landing head first on the ground. Yellow Card
Spear Tackle = A tackle during which the tackled players legs pass the horizontal AND is driven into the ground head first. Red Card.
Hence a tackle that brings the players legs past horizontal that lands them on their head is a yellow card, unless they are intentionally driven into the ground which is a red. So tackles like those from the Wales Ireland game would be legalised, Sam Warburtons tackle would be a yellow card due to Clerc not being brought to ground safely.
Therefore tip tackles where the player is dumped onto their backs, or sides would not be an issue.
Or we could all tackle like Dan Lydiate
kadova June 04, 2012 12:49 am
According to your definition of a spear tackle, this is exactly what Hayman did, driving him to the ground head first :)
Askelkana May 28, 2012 7:20 am
Well, he deserved a red for sporting that mullet!!! What a specimen!
nick_rockwell May 29, 2012 9:04 pm
i think hayman comes on and tackles him legally then his team-mate comes in and attempts to drag him down by the head. the ball carrier's momentum takes him up and over hayman. accidental. yellow yeah coz he landed on his head. not a red
rugbyaddict87 May 30, 2012 1:59 pm
These guys are a different level of rugby player compared to your sat pub team. The tip tackle rule should be kept at amateur level but accepted to a degree at professional level.
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