New Fijian wardance performed vs Scotland - The I Bole

Nice Mr Miagi tribute around 0:50 and again a few moments later. The crane Daniel-san.

too contrived, loses credibility.

I somewhat agree. I mean it is interesting to see, but unless it is something original and traditional from many many years ago then it just seems a bit commercial...

I wouldn't deny them it... but again it highlights the whole argument that others put forward about its necessity within the game. I am no great history expert, but I am pretty sure the Scottish highland clans had some sort of fierce roaring before a battle... could that not be incorporated by the Scottish team? Italians could perform some sort of Roman sketch etc etc etc...

don't see a problem with necessity - for teams that have "always" done it, let 'em continue. Don't really see why other nations need to invent an equivalent haka of their own either... personally can't imagine anything getting me fired up for a game like facing a war dance! Bring it!

Well I don't either, I think they are a great spectacle and take what? 5 minutes, give or take? Still a lot less time than scrum resets.... But I know things like this do and will open up the age old argument by those that don't want them in the game....

All these war dances go back to heritage and tradition, as I said, the Scots no doubt had some sort of battle cry, and many of the Scottish team probably know their clan... The Norwegians are Vikings, so perhaps have players going "beserk".. I don't think any of these nations SHOULD start up a war dance, but there would be plenty of genuine reasons why they could, and plenty of "dance" actions which they COULD do...

Like all pre-match 'dances' it looks like an inept try-out for a weightwatchers synchronized swimming team.

Could that look anymore ridiculous or contrived? I mean is that really supposed to be intimidating? They look like a bad dancer counting "and one and two and one and two" in their heads as they do it

So lame. Just get on with the bloody rugby

If they want to do it, go for it. At this stage, rugby is as integral to a lot of Pacific Islander cultures as the war chants themselves. It would actually be interesting to see a breakdown of the ratio of rugby players to fluent native language speakers on the Islands, as I wouldn't be surprised if there were more of the former. It's facile to suggest that the cultures are static or stuck in the past, and as such, it makes sense that new war dances will emerge in synchronicity with new competitive engagements and events of national/ethnic solidarity. There is a level of continuity between the traditional wardances and the new rugby-based wardances that is quite admirable. Indeed, these may be responsible for a lot of youngsters getting interested in their heritage and culture, which doesn't strike me as a bad thing.

Admittedly, there is a double-standard in how non-wardance nations are forced to submit/react to the challenges in certain prescribed ways. The tired joke of England responding to the Haka with Morris dancing is indicative of how contrived a dance/chant response from the rest of us would be. I'd say that if the wardances are going to be part of it, and the opposition have to stand for it, let them respond how they please. Like Wales a few years ago. Challenge accepted!

Ultimately, if the dances inspire the imagination of young players and draws more to the sport, that's great. If it gets people interested in the heritage and culture of these nations, even better. And if I'm facing it (highly unlikely), I know that every minute spent memorizing that choreography is a minute that was not spent perfecting their lineout, or set piece off the back of a scrum. So I don't really see much of a downside.

" I know that every minute spent memorizing that choreography is a minute that was not spent perfecting their lineout, or set piece off the back of a scrum. So I don't really see much of a downside."

Lol, sounds like NZ have more minutes in their day than the rest of the world...siigh..

Must be somewhat amusing though, to see them actually practising it without any "need" or opposition, unless they do it before a training game against each other.. :/ Anyone shed light on that?

Haka practice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXKxAg6g_j0

I seem to remember hearing something about the ABs doing a haka before and after every training session...

So if the Spanish rugby team eventually comes good, are we to expect the Marcarena? Or the Irish adopt Riverdance...?

Both of those dances you mentioned have no relevance to war. What was your point?

And 'war' dances have great relevance to rugby? Especially ones that were just made up a few weeks ago? It's a rugby match; not a war.

As ridiculous as Gallows humors' comment sounds.... why not?

I love watching the Haka, and its counter-parts, I don't mind that Fiji has invented a new one (The AB's made a new one a few years ago).. I can enjoy it. Although I can see the "commercial" side of it... is it heritage or is it a crowd pleaser?

But really would the governing bodies be able to stop it if the Irish did want to perform a riverdance before every match? (or at least something of their own culture and heritage?.... drinking and fighting?)

Jaded Forward has highlighted the ever changing evolution of cultures, and has thus given a strong argument FOR the invention of this new routine. So again, would it not be a strong argument to say that Spain (as mentioned) or any other nation for that matter is ever evolving in its culture and should therefore be allowed to perform something...

I mean dare I say that the rugby world is accommodating these routines because the people doing them are more "primitive" and the rest of the world as a more civilised world have advance far beyond "silly dances"... I am not trying to sound insulting and patronising because I truly do not believe that statement, but it does beg the question that, is it because THEIR heritage may be closer to these routines which were performed for REAL x amount of years ago, whereas the rest of the world hasn't performed an angry routine like this in many many more years?!?!?

As for the comments about facing the haka and counterparts. I believe the opposition should in theory be allowed to do what they want, Campese used to kick a ball around and that use to get flack. Wales stood up to it and Nonu cried a river...

Richard Cockerill's haka response 15 years ago is still the best ever:
http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/12/770/richard-cockerill-stands-up-to-the-haka-in-1997

I like hearing about it with an interview, when he said he felt like he was doing something good and impressing Marting Johnson. Then he said Martin looked at me and said "Cocker, what the hell have you just done" (or words to that effect..).

Ah, same video lol, "what the f*** have you done" lol, cracks me up every time!

I bet the Maori boys in that NZ team bloody loved it though. And not just because it helped psych them up even more...

It's funny because everyone talks about how Nonu had a bit of a cry (and he did) but ignores the fact that every single other All Black and heaps of NZers (including ex-All Blacks and media) thought that what Wales did was awesome.

So 99% of NZers applauded Wales and everyone just chose to focus on the one All Black who had a whinge. Sounds like confirmation bias to me.

In regards to hakas and other pre-game dances, they have become a valuable part of the sport.
They are appealing particularly to people new to the sport, as exciting and exotic.

They have become a real rugby tradition. I for one think it would indescribably sad to see them done away with. Just a real victory for blandness and homogenization.

When you understand what rugby means to people from the Pacific Islands as an expression of their pride in their culture and countries and how these dances ties into that, you realise what worth it brings.

And the counter arguments are always so miserly and negative, they just don't speak to me at all. Anyone who thinks they give a competitive advantage has very little faith in their ability, and really needs to question why a cultural dance is affecting their ability to play better rugby.

If people want to respond as Wales did, great, it just adds to the spectacle and brings more enjoyment and excitement to the game.

I don't disagree with anything you posted there Jon. I too do not have any issues with the Haka and its counter-parts... However I do see a loophole where people can say "well if they can then why can't we?"

And to answer the "Nonu" part... Considering he is more native than say Richie McCaw, etc etc (the "white" team mates!) I'd have expected a good reaction from him. But a reaction like that from a REAL New Zealander (or islander) is a bit depressing.

When looking at the AB's Players like Umaga, Nonu etc are the ones that in theory, look the real deal during the Haka, so you'd expect them to appreciate the reaction more so.

As for the "greater advantage"..I also disagree, I think it fires both teams up...

To some extent Ireland has its own pre-game tradition with the song "Ireland's Call" which they sing either before or after the anthems...