Sunday, November 25, 2012
Wales score bizarre try with thirteen man lineout against the All Blacks
Wales suffered their sixth defeat in succession on Saturday after they were convincingly beaten 33-10 by the All Blacks at the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff. They did score in the second half though, giving new meaning to the term team try.
A fifteen man maul drove over the line after Wales used an old Warren Gatland trick to push 13 men into the lineout to catch the opposition forwards off guard.
Ireland did it against Argentina way back in 1999 when Gatland was coach too.
On this occasion it worked after Rhys Priestland kicked for the corner, finally finding touch after a few attempts that went astray in the first half. The Welsh had aimed to attempt the lineout early in the game, hoping to shake things up with the All Blacks early on.
When it finally happened, the AB's didn't look incredibly interested in defending it, particularly at 33-0 up, but it was a great moment as center Scott Williams barged his way over the tryline.
"That's the way we wanted to take the game to the All Blacks. You've got to do that," said Gatland.
New Zealand coach Steve Hansen said post match that he thought the Welsh tactic of not opting to take kickable penalties early on was crazy.
"Maybe they didn't think we were going to score many points, or they weren't going to be down there again so they had to score off them," he said.
We'll have more from this game and others throughout the week
Posted at 5:50 pm | 57 comments
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Posted in See it to Believe it
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Viewing 57 comments
TechnoMouse November 25, 2012 10:01 pm
Love the Welsh crowd cheering when Priestland kicks it out haha, classic.
stroudos November 26, 2012 12:36 am
Nice one. Only problem is they cheered exactly the same way in the second minute when Wales kicked to touch. They just love to see the "rugby playing" option taken, even when everyone in the stadium must have known they should have smashed three points and kept themselves on the front foot.
memberbenefits November 27, 2012 5:00 pm
I think the cheer was more for that fact that he actually found touch. He missed a couple in the half
WelshOsprey November 25, 2012 11:04 pm
Probably the only good thing wales did but it looked great
Benny November 25, 2012 11:04 pm
I loved it! Not often I get excited about other teams scoring against my ABs but that was fun to watch. Obviously not one you can use if the game is close and you actually think you might win but effective nonetheless. Perhaps a good one to try if you're 3 tries down with 10 mins to go and nothing to lose.
Also enjoyed seeing the ABs throwing out the same move that won the RWC final. Perhaps a little dig at Wales to let them know they'd also have gone down if they made the final
Also enjoyed seeing the ABs throwing out the same move that won the RWC final. Perhaps a little dig at Wales to let them know they'd also have gone down if they made the final
Full Back November 25, 2012 11:29 pm
Benny, in my opinion, never were 2 games further from each other and in my experience you don't win a game based on a move but a strategy.
I saw the All Blacks deservedly win their world cup clinging on for dear life to a 1pt lead in a final that saw them overcome numerous vital injuries and a great French performance.
But out of curiosity, what was move???
I saw the All Blacks deservedly win their world cup clinging on for dear life to a 1pt lead in a final that saw them overcome numerous vital injuries and a great French performance.
But out of curiosity, what was move???
Facepalm November 25, 2012 11:37 pm
Pretty sure he was referring to the split lineout with Franks going down the middle. Very effective, surprised we don't see it more often. I doubt, however, that it was a 'dig' at Wales. It's just a good set piece move which they decided to use and use to good effect.
Full Back November 25, 2012 11:40 pm
oh fair enough, if it's the winning try I guess you can say it was the winning move...sorry.
I doubt it was a dig though, have to agree with Facepalm on that one
I doubt it was a dig though, have to agree with Facepalm on that one
joeythelemur November 25, 2012 11:41 pm
Pretty sure it was Woodcock. Good time to use it, I agree.
FoXtroT November 25, 2012 11:42 pm
Scotland also used it against SA last week.
Guest November 25, 2012 11:58 pm
Yep same move, same obstruction (see Mc Caw).
Benny November 26, 2012 12:55 am
I rewatched the RWC final try and didn't see any obstruction from McCaw. Who did he obstruct?
Guest November 26, 2012 6:30 pm
World Cup Final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bk29uhpt58 34:00
Obstruction by number 8
Wales v New Zealand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqucaN44R7s 1:20
Obstruction by number 7 at 1:27
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bk29uhpt58 34:00
Obstruction by number 8
Wales v New Zealand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqucaN44R7s 1:20
Obstruction by number 7 at 1:27
Benny November 26, 2012 6:38 pm
Looked more like the French were holding Read back so he couldn't celebrate with his team mates
joeythelemur November 26, 2012 9:16 pm
Seriously? The WC try, there's no way the French #8 gets to Woodcock, regardless of what Read was doing. He's defending the front jumpers and Woodcock is practically crossing the line before #8 sees him.
It's been over a year, time to get over it.
It's been over a year, time to get over it.
Clearly November 26, 2012 12:31 am
When Gatland was coaching Ireland Ireland used it against Western Province in a tour match when 9-6 down and a couple of minutes to go. Ireland drove over and looked to have scored but the (local) referee awarded a penalty to Western Province and wouldn't explain why. After the match he admitted that he should have allowed the try. Think it was 1998 but not sure.
Benny November 26, 2012 12:39 am
Maybe England should have tried it. although it required winning the line out first :)
Canadian content November 25, 2012 11:46 pm
Brilliant I'm going to use this for my hs team.
Same move as in the rwc final, u mean arranging for the cowardly craig Joubert to ref the game and not call obvious penalties against them?
Same move as in the rwc final, u mean arranging for the cowardly craig Joubert to ref the game and not call obvious penalties against them?
stroudos November 26, 2012 12:11 am
This is not a bandwagon I want to jump on, but there were a few odd decisions weren't there? More importantly an attitude issue - Joubert was practically begging Cory Jane to forgive him for having the temerity to yellow-card him. And (I know there's nothing unusual about this) I lost track of the number of times he called "away black seven!" but never looked like penalising.
rugbycon November 26, 2012 12:47 am
they were actually cheering because he missed 2 kicks for touch before that.
Ando November 26, 2012 12:57 am
Were they taking the piss? What a joke if that's the only way you can score a try vs. the All Blacks... Kind of telling about the state of Welsh rugby right now.
Calon Lan November 26, 2012 8:58 pm
It wasn't the only way they could score a try against the All Blacks, it was however one may valid ways of scoring tries against them.
gar1990 November 26, 2012 1:07 am
Ireland's attempt at the line out in the 1999 world cup against Argentina, skip to around the 10:24min mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0
shame Preistland missed touch six minutes in, would have been a great way to start the game...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0
shame Preistland missed touch six minutes in, would have been a great way to start the game...
gar1990 November 26, 2012 1:11 am
link to the same video, but at the correct time (10:24)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0&feature=player_detailpage#t=624s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSQG74Tue0&feature=player_detailpage#t=624s
Pretzel November 26, 2012 2:51 am
Well...I don't actually see anything wrong with this... people saying "if this is the only way to score against the AB's then blah blah"... well what if it was? What if every team that faces the AB's does this every line out, there is going to be some seriously difficult defending going on there...
I didn't see the game but did hear about some dubious NZ playing... I don't know if it was exaggerated, but I hear the Andrew Hore incident was a nasty one...
I didn't see the game but did hear about some dubious NZ playing... I don't know if it was exaggerated, but I hear the Andrew Hore incident was a nasty one...
Pretzel November 26, 2012 3:06 am
Bloody hell, I just saw the Hore-Davies incident, that was a bit of an over the top reaction no? A shove would be enough, but a stiff arm to the chops was MASSIVELY OTT, a true example of why the game needs that 4th official to step in, or at least be able to be asked!
Ottawa Rugger November 26, 2012 6:47 am
Agreed. The swinging arm looked deliberate enough for a citation. And it may not be deliberate, but it also looks like Hore drops his knee on Davies as he enters the ruck. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of this on RD shortly...
katman November 26, 2012 9:02 am
He'll be gone for a long time. After the Thomson incident, with the IRB appealing his lenient sentence, they won't want to be seen favouring the All Blacks again. I reckon at least 6 games, which would equate to a good few months. But who knows - stranger things have happened.
Pretzel November 26, 2012 3:21 pm
Interesting point Katman, I read somewhere that the high end ban for this incident (striking) is something like 8 weeks. Any idea if that can be equated to 8 playing weeks, or whether they have to keep it as normal weeks?
Anyone know the answer to that?
Anyone know the answer to that?
AustinT November 26, 2012 3:35 pm
I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that this was a planned assault. It was so early in the game that it made me think there was a clear plan to destabalise the Welsh front 5.
katman November 26, 2012 4:53 pm
The O'Driscol spear tackle was also in the opening passage of play - also completely cynical, clearly meant to injure and seemingly premeditated. Could it be that the red mist from the Haka needs to settle before they start the game?
matt November 26, 2012 4:50 pm
I believe if it is counted as playing weeks. There was something about Ashton not being able to play against Fiji because his of a one week ban he had been given two weeks before, but because he hadn't been released back to his club for the weekend before the Fiji game it did not count.
Ottawa Rugger November 26, 2012 3:09 am
I personally thought this was so funny when watching it. Down that bad to the world champions? Why not throw the kitchen sink at them, see what happens.
Can you imagine if they lost the line-out though? they effectively left the All Black back-line undefended so a turnover would have gone to the wing in a heartbeat and down the length of the field for a demoralizing try. Instead you get a hilarious, fun, crowd-pleasing display. Listen to the crowd when they pull it off.
Just goes to show: go big or go home
Can you imagine if they lost the line-out though? they effectively left the All Black back-line undefended so a turnover would have gone to the wing in a heartbeat and down the length of the field for a demoralizing try. Instead you get a hilarious, fun, crowd-pleasing display. Listen to the crowd when they pull it off.
Just goes to show: go big or go home
kenfraine November 26, 2012 4:35 am
Virginia Tech, Univ of MD, and then Gonzaga College HS ran this same play. It was first thought up by Steve Guiffre, then head coach at VT, back in the late 90's and then brought to his next two coaching assignments.
Matty November 26, 2012 8:43 am
Wales got thumped, and the game was over by half time where the AB's brought on all their substitutes. Amazing how Wales are 6 nations champs...says a lot about the poor level of rugby in the NH...embarrassing!
I cant believe how Wales are celebrating this consolation try as if they won the game??? Wales celebrating mediocrity again...with a poor attitude like that it may take them another 60 years to get a win against the AB's.
I cant believe how Wales are celebrating this consolation try as if they won the game??? Wales celebrating mediocrity again...with a poor attitude like that it may take them another 60 years to get a win against the AB's.
Guest November 26, 2012 10:01 am
Ha! Sorry but teams have been doing this since at least the 70s (and probably a long time before that). It's usually kept to the amateur pitches, although I seem to remember Neath using it once or twice (in the 80s)'
Oliver November 26, 2012 2:41 pm
"poor level of rugby in the NH" ?
Funny mon ami !
France just crushed Australia and Argentina, and followed with a difficult but convincing win against Samoa....3 wins in a row against SH teams by les Bleus!
Funny mon ami !
France just crushed Australia and Argentina, and followed with a difficult but convincing win against Samoa....3 wins in a row against SH teams by les Bleus!
Jeri November 26, 2012 9:15 am
Loved that try :), as well as the commentary
"They have 15 men in that line out, I imagine they're going for a catch and drive!"
Lol
"They have 15 men in that line out, I imagine they're going for a catch and drive!"
Lol
curates_egg November 26, 2012 10:41 am
As others have said, its a Gatland special, used by Ireland a couple of times under his tenure. It really is scraping the barrel stuff: embarrassing. Surprised RD didn't know/reference this.
Eric November 26, 2012 11:07 am
Just for fun, here's a most illustrious example of a XV-strong "turtle" formation, used by the club of Bègles (near Bordeaux, Western France) over their 1991-92 campaign.
ConnachtMan November 26, 2012 11:46 am
jaysus..thats mental,,, obviously couldnt happen with today's law interpretations but still mental!
Pretzel November 26, 2012 3:29 pm
Lol, that was crying from a nasty big player to just SMASH the ball carrier in the exposed back, or at least anyone of those exposed ribs of one of the other guys.
We had an U20's or U21's International player who was our rugby coach at school and he used to say that: "Any time you see a maul and a player has some ribs exposed just smash them, it'll slow the maul down and make them less inclined to get involved!"
We had an U20's or U21's International player who was our rugby coach at school and he used to say that: "Any time you see a maul and a player has some ribs exposed just smash them, it'll slow the maul down and make them less inclined to get involved!"
M November 26, 2012 11:55 am
Probably the very reason why the rules have changed!
Put 15 props on the pitch and do 80 minutes of that -> game over...
Put 15 props on the pitch and do 80 minutes of that -> game over...
FelipeG November 26, 2012 12:47 pm
Sad to see this once promising welsh team now stuck in...well I just don't know what.
Still, this try shows a good spirit imo. Game was over but they still throw everything at it.
Still, this try shows a good spirit imo. Game was over but they still throw everything at it.
No11 November 26, 2012 3:33 pm
Gatland's Ireland tried this as well against Argentina in 1999 did they not?
Don't think it worked then.
Don't think it worked then.
Pretzel November 26, 2012 6:29 pm
Wales were always the losing team in this match imo, however things could have been very different if Andrew Hore had been sent off (which he should have been), so I think the Kiwi's should count themselves lucky...
Faye 123 November 26, 2012 7:25 pm
the thirteen man line out was BRILLIANT. Wales i dont think would have wanted to end the match on a no try basis. It was well earnt they played with so much improvement on the last couple of matches. Well at least they didn't lose that line out would have been a bit embarrassing haha :) but the scoreline to me didnt reflect the way the game went. it was the kiwi's picking out penalties when they got them. maybe to beat the southern hemisphere teams we need to be picking away at the score board at any chance.
elvis15 November 26, 2012 7:47 pm
Canada tried it against the Maori on Friday, but failed to catch the ball so it didn't come off quite as well as it did for Wales.
Jon November 27, 2012 4:17 am
This was quite impressive.
At first I thought it could have been a truck and trailer penalty but having looked more closely it's legit. In fact NZ could have been penalised for coming round the side of the maul.
If they try this against the Aussies this weekend I'm not sure how the Aussies will stop it. Unless they pile the whole team in to defend against it, or somehow snaffle the lineout.
Or maybe just do what Argentina did against Ireland in the WC and collapse it illegally.
At first I thought it could have been a truck and trailer penalty but having looked more closely it's legit. In fact NZ could have been penalised for coming round the side of the maul.
If they try this against the Aussies this weekend I'm not sure how the Aussies will stop it. Unless they pile the whole team in to defend against it, or somehow snaffle the lineout.
Or maybe just do what Argentina did against Ireland in the WC and collapse it illegally.
Guest123 November 27, 2012 10:13 am
how do you defend this?
put the same no. in the lineout and expose the space outside?
cover the outside but lose the drive due to less people in the maul?
put the same no. in the lineout and expose the space outside?
cover the outside but lose the drive due to less people in the maul?
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