Saturday, December 01, 2012
England upset the All Blacks with famous win at Twickenham
England shocked the rugby world with a highly impressive performance that blew the All Blacks off the Twickenham turf yesterday. The visitors made uncharacteristic errors and England punshed them, winning 38-21 and ending the 20-match unbeaten run.
While Owen Farrell hit the headlines earlier in the week unexpectedly, on Saturday he made it clear that he's a force to be reckoned with when given the opportunity. The Saracens flyhalf kicked England to a 15-0 halftime lead, which included a nicely taken dropgoal.
New Zealand fought back to 15-14 through two smartly taken tries and looked as though they were kicking into gear. England didn't take their foot off the throttle though and responded with two quick tries of their own, effectively holding off the imminent All Black comeback.
"To put that scoreline on an All Blacks side that good is way beyond what we could have asked for, but we've had the belief all through the week," England coach Stuart Lancaster said post match.
Despite losing to the Wallabies and Springboks leading up to this game, England shocked the rugby world with a performance that many fans and pundits are still struggling to get their heads around.
It was England's record margin of victory over the All Blacks, their highest ever score against them, their first win over them since 2003, and only their seventh in 35 Tests between the two nations.
It was also New Zealand's first loss since going down to the Wallabies 25-20 in July last year.
"It's bitterly disappointing. We struggled to get any sort of momentum and England played particularly well - credit to them," said Richie McCaw. "You're prepared for a big battle and that's the way it was, they caught us on the hop. They're a good team and they took their chances."
Tomorrow's Rugby World Cup 2015 Pool Allocation Draw could see England and the All Blacks placed in the same group, as Saturday's win wasn't enough to move England into the top four, where New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, and France occupy the crucial spots.
England are in the same tier/band as Ireland, Argentina, and Samoa, Wales dropped to ninth in the world following their loss against Australia, so will be alongside Italy, Scotland, and Tonga.
Time: 2:58
Credit: Post now updated with Official RFU highlights
Posted at 5:12 pm | 75 comments
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England vs New Zealand December 2012 - Full Match
Posted in End of Year Tours 2012
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Viewing 75 comments
Mitchell December 01, 2012 7:24 pm
As much as it pains me to say it as an Ireland supporter, hats off to England. Don't think anyone expected that!
Bey December 01, 2012 7:25 pm
Wow. The gap between the two hemispheres is clearly getting narrower...
matt December 01, 2012 7:48 pm
Yer we just need SH teams to get the shits every week now and we're set...
BestHookerInTown December 01, 2012 7:25 pm
Oh England, as hormonal as a woman. Just can't decide whether they want to play well and beat teams or play like the previous two weeks!!
Nice to see them beat the AB's though, who must admit were poor on the day.
How good was Mike Brown on the wing though? Can't give that man an inch. And Brad Barritt played well today.
Cudos to the English pack for a powerful display. Honestly I thought Dan Cole's deserved MOTM, but anybody in that pack deserved it and I'm happy Tom Wood's got it!!
Nice to see them beat the AB's though, who must admit were poor on the day.
How good was Mike Brown on the wing though? Can't give that man an inch. And Brad Barritt played well today.
Cudos to the English pack for a powerful display. Honestly I thought Dan Cole's deserved MOTM, but anybody in that pack deserved it and I'm happy Tom Wood's got it!!
moddeur December 01, 2012 7:38 pm
Looks like the two best teams in the NH beat the two best teams in the SH this year (Eng-Nz, Fra-Aus). But I've got to say that perhaps the Blacks were still a bit sick from their gastroenteritis (at least now we know how to beat them: lamb curry on the house for everyone!). Nah, just teasing, England backs were very good today, and their forwards were all fired-up: a great combination.
Jim December 01, 2012 8:04 pm
Considering they all had the Norovirus it's amazing they scored 21 points - Canada would have beaten them in that state. Still, good for England, they needed a win.
Canadian content December 02, 2012 3:53 pm
Probably not since we never have. Though we have beat England oh and screw you.
dave December 02, 2012 5:19 pm
we've never beat the english, they've played in 6 tests and never won, that's not totally bad for me because i'm half english
sithepie December 01, 2012 8:06 pm
Here's a quote (courtesy of BBC Sport Rugby Union) from McCaw about whether the mid-week virus was the reason for their loss: "I don’t think so. Had we fallen off at end could have blamed it, I felt fine in that department."
DanKnapp December 01, 2012 8:26 pm
He's a bloody good cheat, but hats off to him, he's also a decent bloke and a good loser. Definitely one of the best captains of all time. Delighted we stuffed his boys today though!
stroudos December 01, 2012 9:32 pm
Top bloke. I don't care what anyone says about Offside Rich, they're just jealous. Great captain, decent bloke. For me though, he has to say that or look a bad sport - I can't help thinking the lurgy definitely played a factor, I know loads of people who's had that bug (seems to be the same one) over the last month or so and if you asked them to play 80 minutes of rugby two days later they'd have had no chance.
prestwick December 03, 2012 6:15 pm
Do find it funny that people get mad at McCaw simply for doing his job. I thought being a douche at the breakdown was the job of a number 7? :S
FatProp December 01, 2012 9:13 pm
Yes finally England play to their full potential !
Tuilagi managed to pass and we scored two tries from it !
If only he learnt to pass before and barritt has attacking play!? so happy Farrell played brilliantly and if he can keep this up then we will have two amazing young fly halfs in him and Burns. This probably has put more England players into the mix for the lions tour. Of course i am not stupid New Zealand were not at their best no where it but you still have to get into them and put away your chances.
Tuilagi managed to pass and we scored two tries from it !
If only he learnt to pass before and barritt has attacking play!? so happy Farrell played brilliantly and if he can keep this up then we will have two amazing young fly halfs in him and Burns. This probably has put more England players into the mix for the lions tour. Of course i am not stupid New Zealand were not at their best no where it but you still have to get into them and put away your chances.
stroudos December 01, 2012 9:38 pm
Blimey, RD, you've excelled yourselves here. Didn't think I'd be seeing proper highlights so quickly. Nice one.
stroudos December 01, 2012 9:48 pm
Got to the clubhouse after our game today about 55' in. Heard a massive roar go up in the bar - thought "oh, we've got off the mark then, probably 5-20 or something". Could not believe it when I got through and saw the score. Then the next two tries came and the place went mental. I still can't quite believe it!!
Ecstatic with the result and what I've seen of the performance. Just to be a miserable bar steward though, whatever sportsmanlike statements they make I think the sickness bug probably played a role. Also, Tuilagi was instrumental in all our tries and I'm not sure anyone else in a white shirt could have made those moves happen - thrilled that he's also shut up the critics who complain he can't pass. Finally, Savea's first try was a brilliant finish, the man is a try-scoring machine.
Ecstatic with the result and what I've seen of the performance. Just to be a miserable bar steward though, whatever sportsmanlike statements they make I think the sickness bug probably played a role. Also, Tuilagi was instrumental in all our tries and I'm not sure anyone else in a white shirt could have made those moves happen - thrilled that he's also shut up the critics who complain he can't pass. Finally, Savea's first try was a brilliant finish, the man is a try-scoring machine.
Jimothy December 01, 2012 10:31 pm
Brilliant! England finally put in the performance of a lifetime and it's not the players that get the credit but the sh*ts! England played with pace and ambition and Tom Woods was outstanding. Barritt and Manu finally clicked and Owen's boot was ticking over steadily. I don't think New Zealand new what hit them and the pace with which England started really shocked them.
DC was not in the best form and perhaps Cruden should have started but on the whole I think NZ were shocked. If they were so poorly and struggling how come it was NZ that ended the game in the ascendancy? Surely if England were the fully fit side then they would of continued to poor on the points as NZ tired?
DC was not in the best form and perhaps Cruden should have started but on the whole I think NZ were shocked. If they were so poorly and struggling how come it was NZ that ended the game in the ascendancy? Surely if England were the fully fit side then they would of continued to poor on the points as NZ tired?
stroudos December 02, 2012 12:19 am
Yeah, but I also blame the wholesale changes. I still don't understand the policy of emptying the bench seemingly for no reason. The players who went off didn't look like they were tired or anything.
Ottawa Rugger December 01, 2012 10:46 pm
I'll try my best to avoid overstating how important this victory is (as it is after all just one game), but the following has to be said:
-Chris Robshaw's critics have their feet firmly in their mouths
-Owen Farrell performed brilliantly under the POTY nomination pressure that he didn't ask for (i get the feeling even he didn't see that coming. He seems shy about the whole thing). Compare his performance with that of Carter and McCaw and this award is not so obvious as previously thought
-Freddie Burns got quite the first cap, even if he did come on when England were already up by 20pts. Showed what he can do at the highest level. Deserves to be there
-Chris Ashton FINALLY scores
-Tuilagi, Launchbury, the Youngs brothers, Brown, Goode, everyone else seemed to play really well
All in all it seems like everything that could have been asked out of this game came together - fine performances, drama, skill, tension etc. I also liked the way Robshaw and Wood mentioned the Women's game and thanked the crowd, not to mention McCaw's sportsman-like conduct in the interviews afterwards. This game showcased why I watch, play, and love Rugby.
-Chris Robshaw's critics have their feet firmly in their mouths
-Owen Farrell performed brilliantly under the POTY nomination pressure that he didn't ask for (i get the feeling even he didn't see that coming. He seems shy about the whole thing). Compare his performance with that of Carter and McCaw and this award is not so obvious as previously thought
-Freddie Burns got quite the first cap, even if he did come on when England were already up by 20pts. Showed what he can do at the highest level. Deserves to be there
-Chris Ashton FINALLY scores
-Tuilagi, Launchbury, the Youngs brothers, Brown, Goode, everyone else seemed to play really well
All in all it seems like everything that could have been asked out of this game came together - fine performances, drama, skill, tension etc. I also liked the way Robshaw and Wood mentioned the Women's game and thanked the crowd, not to mention McCaw's sportsman-like conduct in the interviews afterwards. This game showcased why I watch, play, and love Rugby.
matt December 02, 2012 11:19 pm
I agree with you on almost everything, the benefits of that win will be felt for a long time yet.
However, I don't think many of Robshaw's critics will feel any different; the criticism of him was due to his poor decision making over the previous two weeks, not his playing ability.
So while he had a great game yesterday even by the English standards of the day, as a captain his performance was every bit normal.
He hasn't proven that he can make decisions under pressure
However, I don't think many of Robshaw's critics will feel any different; the criticism of him was due to his poor decision making over the previous two weeks, not his playing ability.
So while he had a great game yesterday even by the English standards of the day, as a captain his performance was every bit normal.
He hasn't proven that he can make decisions under pressure
RuggerFan December 01, 2012 11:46 pm
As a kiwi, while I was gutted that we lost, hats off to England man they played well. They played extremely well I thought, and we were just beaten by a better side.
ollie December 02, 2012 12:13 am
Fair play to all the kiwis for being great sports too. Good to see some positive messaging on the board!
Pretzel December 02, 2012 12:18 am
Didn't see the game, just saw the highlights and wow.. When I first saw the score I was sure something wasn't right, mixed up the numbers or something. I think it's an incredible win for England.
I can't help think that perhaps that mysterious waitress from the RWC was back in action again!!! I think the bug must have affected them somewhat, but what can you do? You field the side you feel confident with, and what could England do? They can only play the side they are faced with. I don't think anyone can call excuses really, there is rarely a match when both teams are 100% happy beforehand. There is always a key player with an injury here, something going on there, etc, and this is just another hurdle. From the highlights the NZ tries were their usual brilliance. England tries were well executed.
And Farrell, my had a fair role to play in that game, perhaps I was too hasty questioning his POTY nomination, (of course it cannot be hung on one game alone).
Well its a win for England, and it's a break in the NZ win streak.
I don't quite think this means the next time England face the AB's they'll have the same success, but the confidence boost this must have had will definitely help them with further games.
I feel sorry for the next team that has to face NZ, I fear that they will feel the full brunt of an angry NZ team looking to get back on a winning streak, albeit next season.
I can't help think that perhaps that mysterious waitress from the RWC was back in action again!!! I think the bug must have affected them somewhat, but what can you do? You field the side you feel confident with, and what could England do? They can only play the side they are faced with. I don't think anyone can call excuses really, there is rarely a match when both teams are 100% happy beforehand. There is always a key player with an injury here, something going on there, etc, and this is just another hurdle. From the highlights the NZ tries were their usual brilliance. England tries were well executed.
And Farrell, my had a fair role to play in that game, perhaps I was too hasty questioning his POTY nomination, (of course it cannot be hung on one game alone).
Well its a win for England, and it's a break in the NZ win streak.
I don't quite think this means the next time England face the AB's they'll have the same success, but the confidence boost this must have had will definitely help them with further games.
I feel sorry for the next team that has to face NZ, I fear that they will feel the full brunt of an angry NZ team looking to get back on a winning streak, albeit next season.
Leadbitter December 02, 2012 3:44 pm
Pretzel - always like readng your comments, as invariably they are full of sense and always present a balanced argument. As an Englishman, you wont be getting an arrogant rant of victory, because most englsih supporters are seeing this as the start of something rather than this team being the finsished article.
I would reserve your sympathy for the next team to play the AB; the reason being that England have provided the blue print on how to beat this and all NZ teams to follow. In no particular order; win the breakdown and take McCaw out of the game, put pressure on the opposition at every opportunity, get your kick chase right and take every opportunity to score that presents itself.
There will not be many teams that can do this at the intensity needed over 80 minutes. But, there are at least 3. As France showed in the world cup final, these men in black are just that, men. Stop them palying their game, stop respecting them and just run at them and they can be made to look, lets admit it, like any other team in the world.
And please, no talk of virus type execuses. If McCaw is not taking that line, how dare any other Kiwi do him the dis-service of taking another. Hansen has been brilliant, noble and gracious in defeat. New Zealand were beaten, beaten by this England team. Take it on the chin boys, we have for 9 years.
I would reserve your sympathy for the next team to play the AB; the reason being that England have provided the blue print on how to beat this and all NZ teams to follow. In no particular order; win the breakdown and take McCaw out of the game, put pressure on the opposition at every opportunity, get your kick chase right and take every opportunity to score that presents itself.
There will not be many teams that can do this at the intensity needed over 80 minutes. But, there are at least 3. As France showed in the world cup final, these men in black are just that, men. Stop them palying their game, stop respecting them and just run at them and they can be made to look, lets admit it, like any other team in the world.
And please, no talk of virus type execuses. If McCaw is not taking that line, how dare any other Kiwi do him the dis-service of taking another. Hansen has been brilliant, noble and gracious in defeat. New Zealand were beaten, beaten by this England team. Take it on the chin boys, we have for 9 years.
stroudos December 02, 2012 8:53 pm
Cracking post. Love the bit on blueprint for beating NZ. I'd add on the "win the breakdown" point, "win the breakdowns that you have a chance of winning and get out of lost causes". This is where Wales came unstuck last week, committing too many players to rucks they weren't going to win. Each time the ball came out on the black side Wales were short of defenders. England seemed to get the balance right, knowing when to throw blokes in and smash the ruck and when to concentrate instead on getting organised for the next phase.
Pretzel December 02, 2012 10:38 pm
Thank you for your reply Leadbitter.
From what I hear and have seen on these highlights, England did play very well.
I was not suggesting that NZ "let England win" or were not up to the task. However I feel the early stages at which England is in, would not have beaten NZ "on a good day". I fear I'm leaving myself open to criticism here, and to form any sort of negative comment on this game is not what I am trying to do. I do think legally targeting McCaw is one of the only ways to stop NZ's attack, or counter-attack, as with Australia and Pocock.
My sympathy for the next team is not due to me feeling they will have a guaranteed loss, but the "bounce back" reaction that NZ have in the past possessed suggests that they will come out all guns blazing, so it will probably be a hard fought match.
I for one like to see any success in "under-dogs"; again, that is not an insult, it is merely a comment on how NZ were the favourites, and thus, by default Eng were the under-dogs. Although in some respects England have not been performing as well as they have done in the past, so I hope England continue to climb, it is a bit disappointing for a rugby community to see them go from World Champions down to average - poor - good - poor - average etc etc.. Last time against Aus they produced a great game against the Aussies, this autumn they failed etc, I hope as you say it will be the start of something.
It is particularly encouraging that all the Kiwi fans on here have so far shown a great amount of humbleness. The NZ management again have been very congratulatory, all in all I imagine this has probably given NZ a reality check that they're NOT unbeatable, it's given England a reality check that they CAN beat the best, and probably the rest of the world an eye opener that they are never out of the race.
From what I hear and have seen on these highlights, England did play very well.
I was not suggesting that NZ "let England win" or were not up to the task. However I feel the early stages at which England is in, would not have beaten NZ "on a good day". I fear I'm leaving myself open to criticism here, and to form any sort of negative comment on this game is not what I am trying to do. I do think legally targeting McCaw is one of the only ways to stop NZ's attack, or counter-attack, as with Australia and Pocock.
My sympathy for the next team is not due to me feeling they will have a guaranteed loss, but the "bounce back" reaction that NZ have in the past possessed suggests that they will come out all guns blazing, so it will probably be a hard fought match.
I for one like to see any success in "under-dogs"; again, that is not an insult, it is merely a comment on how NZ were the favourites, and thus, by default Eng were the under-dogs. Although in some respects England have not been performing as well as they have done in the past, so I hope England continue to climb, it is a bit disappointing for a rugby community to see them go from World Champions down to average - poor - good - poor - average etc etc.. Last time against Aus they produced a great game against the Aussies, this autumn they failed etc, I hope as you say it will be the start of something.
It is particularly encouraging that all the Kiwi fans on here have so far shown a great amount of humbleness. The NZ management again have been very congratulatory, all in all I imagine this has probably given NZ a reality check that they're NOT unbeatable, it's given England a reality check that they CAN beat the best, and probably the rest of the world an eye opener that they are never out of the race.
prestwick December 03, 2012 9:42 am
Great posts from Lead, Pretzel & Stroudos. I think you need to look at it this way. Over I'd say six months or so this has been a long time coming and for several reasons.
One. The All Blacks seem to always commit the bare minimum at the break down and stack their line with the maximum afforded yet no team other than..well..David Pocock or France has clocked onto this fact. Only on Saturday did someone say "hang on lads, if we rush the ABs with more than three players we'll either force the turnover or slow down the ball so much on such a legal level they won't be able to play their game".
Secondly, the likes of Dagg, Jane, etc are only good under the high ball so long as they have time and support under the high ball. England afforded them neither and the pressure showed with some excellent turnovers caused directly down to pressure on the ABs back end.
Thirdly, Scotland & Wales alluded to it and Australia damn near proved it but the AB midfield is fallible if you run hard enough and straight enough and Tuilagi proved this when he said "seeya!" to Carter and co and ran off before releasing Ashton for the 2nd try.
This was an excellent victory but it will only count for something if England win a six nations (not necessarily a grand slam) and funnily enough this makes Warren Gatland's job even harder now.
One. The All Blacks seem to always commit the bare minimum at the break down and stack their line with the maximum afforded yet no team other than..well..David Pocock or France has clocked onto this fact. Only on Saturday did someone say "hang on lads, if we rush the ABs with more than three players we'll either force the turnover or slow down the ball so much on such a legal level they won't be able to play their game".
Secondly, the likes of Dagg, Jane, etc are only good under the high ball so long as they have time and support under the high ball. England afforded them neither and the pressure showed with some excellent turnovers caused directly down to pressure on the ABs back end.
Thirdly, Scotland & Wales alluded to it and Australia damn near proved it but the AB midfield is fallible if you run hard enough and straight enough and Tuilagi proved this when he said "seeya!" to Carter and co and ran off before releasing Ashton for the 2nd try.
This was an excellent victory but it will only count for something if England win a six nations (not necessarily a grand slam) and funnily enough this makes Warren Gatland's job even harder now.
Leadbitter December 03, 2012 11:11 am
Thanks Pretzel,
Spot on as ever. The frustration of the last ten years has been, just as you say, the sheer inconsistency of the England team. There have been some good bits but also some very bad bits.
I think it's important for World rugby that the bar keeps being raised, and its the All Blacks that remain the team to be lifting it. Just look at how far Argentina have come just by being in that sort of competative class. This AB side has brought out the very best in this young English team which in turn will make the 6nations better, in turn the Lions, and so on...
Clearly I'm thrilled to be an English rugby supporter at the moment. But that result also makes me feel very positive about world rugby over the next three years leading into the world cup. What a brilliant game we have.
Spot on as ever. The frustration of the last ten years has been, just as you say, the sheer inconsistency of the England team. There have been some good bits but also some very bad bits.
I think it's important for World rugby that the bar keeps being raised, and its the All Blacks that remain the team to be lifting it. Just look at how far Argentina have come just by being in that sort of competative class. This AB side has brought out the very best in this young English team which in turn will make the 6nations better, in turn the Lions, and so on...
Clearly I'm thrilled to be an English rugby supporter at the moment. But that result also makes me feel very positive about world rugby over the next three years leading into the world cup. What a brilliant game we have.
kadova December 04, 2012 12:21 am
Pretzel:
"I feel sorry for the next team that has to face NZ, I fear that they will feel the full brunt of an angry NZ team looking to get back on a winning streak, albeit next season. "
Don't say that to me :) If the June tests are the next international games, they have France in Eden Park as their first match.
"I feel sorry for the next team that has to face NZ, I fear that they will feel the full brunt of an angry NZ team looking to get back on a winning streak, albeit next season. "
Don't say that to me :) If the June tests are the next international games, they have France in Eden Park as their first match.
Isaac December 02, 2012 12:45 am
Im pissed off that our boys lost, but well done England, they deserved to win and what a way to win it. The AB's looked off the pace today but still showed some patches of brilliance, especially Savea's 2nd try and im glad that they didn't give up and they tried to the very last minute but the English just out muscled us all game.
If England can play like that consistently, they will be very hard to beat. Congratulations to England and their supporters!
If England can play like that consistently, they will be very hard to beat. Congratulations to England and their supporters!
MrP December 02, 2012 2:30 am
Very good performance indeed. But caution required...the ABs are still the best team in the world unfortunately, although today showed we could play like them for a change. Relief and disbelief in equal measure.
I still reckon Conrad Smith is THE most underrated player in world rugby though, had his hand in everything and even did a Bradley Davies at around the 1:00 mark, obstructing and holding back Farrel(I think). Deserved a stiff arm from the hooker obviously :)
I still reckon Conrad Smith is THE most underrated player in world rugby though, had his hand in everything and even did a Bradley Davies at around the 1:00 mark, obstructing and holding back Farrel(I think). Deserved a stiff arm from the hooker obviously :)
Frenchie December 02, 2012 2:45 am
Fantastic result! Great rugby played by England. England did the basics well and showed that when you keep possession of the ball the AB are beatable.
It was great to see a referee doing his job in the ruck area and using his whistle...I hope Mr Craig Joubert took note.
I thought Mike Brown was amazing.
Congratulations! So pleased...
It was great to see a referee doing his job in the ruck area and using his whistle...I hope Mr Craig Joubert took note.
I thought Mike Brown was amazing.
Congratulations! So pleased...
kadova December 02, 2012 4:29 pm
Get over that finale, please ! It was more than one year ago and French website Le Rugbynistere has an analysis which proved Joubert was not one-sided, he made mistakes against both teams equally. Analysis validated by the now world boss of the referees, the French Joel Jutge.
And yes, i'm French too.
Congrats to England, although i think it's more an All Blacks defeat than an England victory (if that make sense to you).
And yes, i'm French too.
Congrats to England, although i think it's more an All Blacks defeat than an England victory (if that make sense to you).
stroudos December 02, 2012 8:57 pm
kadova:
Congrats to England, although i think it's more an All Blacks defeat than an England victory (if that make sense to you).
I think I know what you mean, but that would be unfair. Sickness earlier in the week aside, this was a full-strength New Zealand team that played pretty well on the day. Carter uncharacteristically missed a few kicks and you might argue that if they'd got to 9-3 ahead at half-time the pattern of the game might have changed but that's a moot point. I'm not getting carried away about it but I would call this a well-deserved England victory.
Congrats to England, although i think it's more an All Blacks defeat than an England victory (if that make sense to you).
I think I know what you mean, but that would be unfair. Sickness earlier in the week aside, this was a full-strength New Zealand team that played pretty well on the day. Carter uncharacteristically missed a few kicks and you might argue that if they'd got to 9-3 ahead at half-time the pattern of the game might have changed but that's a moot point. I'm not getting carried away about it but I would call this a well-deserved England victory.
kadova December 02, 2012 9:13 pm
Sure, I didn't mean to undermine England win. It's just i'm feeling it this way. But that removes nothing from England great performance.
Pretzel December 02, 2012 10:43 pm
I agree that the apparent illness probably took it's toll on the NZ team, but I personally use that phrase when a team plays so badly and allows another bad team to get a win, for instance I hear the Australia Wales match was a case of Wales playing the better rugby, but also losing the match with a give away opportunity. Whereas from what I here, England ran rampant through their own skill and NZ couldn't keep up...
kadova December 04, 2012 12:12 am
Sure, i agree with that. I was not thinking about the bout of illness. I was thinking about all the talking about Richie McCaw last game before his 6 months off, and the record of (matches) wins in a row. I believe they were thinking too much and England caught them cold.
That's not usual for an AB team to miss 16 tackles, for instance.
The great thing about this result is also that every team now is going to improve, like Leadbitter said.
That's not usual for an AB team to miss 16 tackles, for instance.
The great thing about this result is also that every team now is going to improve, like Leadbitter said.
Pretzel December 05, 2012 1:22 pm
The stats in most rugby games do interest me quite a bit, I like seeing how they stack up in comparison. One thing I would say with things like missed tackles, (only now that I think about it) is, "are they missed tackles, where bad form and technique ruled the day, or are they broken tackles, where players are bumped off by hard runners?"
For instance the Scotland NZ match, I remember Denton actually bumped Richie McCaw, now that would go down as a missed tackle I assume, it just makes me wonder if England were running hard at certain players, or running hard between players or something. I didn't see the game so of course this is just speculation on my part, NZ could have just been asleep in the tackles.
From what I hear I think England did a lot of analysis before this game, perhaps a lot of NZ game watching, videos of what NZ do at breakdowns, etc, and I think they was probably the focal point of their training that week. From what friends have said, it looked like England didn't just play their game, they played "upset NZ's game" too..
For instance the Scotland NZ match, I remember Denton actually bumped Richie McCaw, now that would go down as a missed tackle I assume, it just makes me wonder if England were running hard at certain players, or running hard between players or something. I didn't see the game so of course this is just speculation on my part, NZ could have just been asleep in the tackles.
From what I hear I think England did a lot of analysis before this game, perhaps a lot of NZ game watching, videos of what NZ do at breakdowns, etc, and I think they was probably the focal point of their training that week. From what friends have said, it looked like England didn't just play their game, they played "upset NZ's game" too..
browner December 06, 2012 11:13 pm
Hi Pretzel
You may be interested in this ..... I spoke to an England Forward on Tuesday...he gave the credit to the performance to 'Coach Farrell' and his mentallity discussions in the build up.
Source [hush lips sealed] said it became about 'the 8 inches between the ears' ........ maybe the sports psychologists won this battle
You may be interested in this ..... I spoke to an England Forward on Tuesday...he gave the credit to the performance to 'Coach Farrell' and his mentallity discussions in the build up.
Source [hush lips sealed] said it became about 'the 8 inches between the ears' ........ maybe the sports psychologists won this battle
Pretzel December 07, 2012 3:12 am
Why not, sensible play is something NZ do ALL the time. It is something "we" as fans often label as cynical when it comes to foul play, i.e. do it in anywhere BUT your own 22 and the referee will most likely forget about it, and of course there is the common sense sort of play like not committing every man you have to a ruck that is well and truly lost.
Frenchie December 02, 2012 2:48 am
53 minutes highlights on the BBC iPlayer for the ones who didn't see the game
Facepalm December 02, 2012 3:09 am
Ha! I've never been so happy to be so wrong. I slated England after Australia, time for me to eat some humble pie.
Stuart Barnes just didn't have it in him to admit Tuilagi played incredible. Tom Wood was indeed excellent but it was clear to any spectator who was really man of the match.
I just hope hope hope this isn't a one off. Please let this be the start of the side as opposed to the grand finale.
Stuart Barnes just didn't have it in him to admit Tuilagi played incredible. Tom Wood was indeed excellent but it was clear to any spectator who was really man of the match.
I just hope hope hope this isn't a one off. Please let this be the start of the side as opposed to the grand finale.
running rugby December 02, 2012 4:33 am
Well done England, in all a great result to end the best autumn international window in the professional era (in my humble opinion). On top of that we had Samoa down Wales, Tonga down Scotland and if Italy only just managed to land the KO punch to Australia it would have been an incredible result for the underdogs. Lets not forget to congratulate the French and South Africans on there undefeated efforts.
Finally, hard luck ABs - just a bridge too far but you did us (most of us) proud. Hope you all have a well earned summer break.
Finally, hard luck ABs - just a bridge too far but you did us (most of us) proud. Hope you all have a well earned summer break.
Nibs December 02, 2012 6:44 am
its great to see that they dont admit it in public shows how true rugby playing nation allblacks are.For me the real reason behind englands win is the sickness of the all blacks team. they were unfit and and couldnt defend at all and i started wondering whats wrong after minutes of the game So next time when england meet them its gona be a 50+ score against them. And england is not a good team by any means they won because other team was recovering from a sickness.
Jay December 02, 2012 7:28 am
Seeing as the Internationals are now finished, what's everyone's selection for the lions tour looking like now? Based on this month's performances. I'd be interested to know :)
WAIKATO886 December 02, 2012 9:12 am
Good win England. Well deserved. We had to lose at some point. TUILAGI YOU BEAST!! Only reason why I watch England Haha
ABS - 21 Farrell/Tuilagi - 38
ABS - 21 Farrell/Tuilagi - 38
Colombes December 02, 2012 11:12 am
well, well, well... England accomplished the upset of this autum tour
and it was well built and deserved.
After defeats with boks and ozzies, i thought that England should really use Tuilagi with more intelligence as he seemed to be the only english player to break SH defences, and he finally played in this way vs AB's. But the most impressive english perf was in defence where they showed patience and discipline.
On the blacks, i'm speechless. i just didn't recognize them in defence as they offered huge gaps and highways to tuilagi and co. Their pride allow them a fightback but there was certainly something which didn't click.. Novovirus? Whatever, it was great to hear mccaw gracious in defeat. don't think, they will repeat much of that "shit" in the future.
Last point, even if SH sides are tired, this perf just confirms that the NH sides don't necessarly play in a "2nd division" league. so the 2013 6N edition will be quite interesting to watch between young England, France and Ireland sides and a frustrated Wales
and it was well built and deserved.
After defeats with boks and ozzies, i thought that England should really use Tuilagi with more intelligence as he seemed to be the only english player to break SH defences, and he finally played in this way vs AB's. But the most impressive english perf was in defence where they showed patience and discipline.
On the blacks, i'm speechless. i just didn't recognize them in defence as they offered huge gaps and highways to tuilagi and co. Their pride allow them a fightback but there was certainly something which didn't click.. Novovirus? Whatever, it was great to hear mccaw gracious in defeat. don't think, they will repeat much of that "shit" in the future.
Last point, even if SH sides are tired, this perf just confirms that the NH sides don't necessarly play in a "2nd division" league. so the 2013 6N edition will be quite interesting to watch between young England, France and Ireland sides and a frustrated Wales
matt December 03, 2012 12:15 am
I liked this post purely because of your shit pun
The rest of it was well reasoned truths and very gracious, however, you can't beat a great pun
The rest of it was well reasoned truths and very gracious, however, you can't beat a great pun
Leokay December 02, 2012 12:29 pm
Where i can see the match, BBC iPlayer it's only for english people, when you leave in france you can't see the video.
katman December 02, 2012 1:57 pm
Great performance by the England team - they managed to keep the intensity up for the full 80 minutes. Farrell, Barrit, Tuilagi and Brown were really good, as were all three the loose forwards. I was also impressed with Launchberry - last week he was a little subdued, but yesterday he had a great game.
The AB's just didn't get things going. Too many aimless kicks and weak clearances, and intercept passes are never going to help your cause. On the upside, Savea and Smith are in top form.
Most of these year-end tour games have shown that you can hardly speak of a gap between the hemispheres any more.
The AB's just didn't get things going. Too many aimless kicks and weak clearances, and intercept passes are never going to help your cause. On the upside, Savea and Smith are in top form.
Most of these year-end tour games have shown that you can hardly speak of a gap between the hemispheres any more.
matt December 03, 2012 12:17 am
I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves here, there is still a big gap between the NH and SH.
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I bet if you tally up the results between the big 4 of the north and the big 4 from the south in 2012 it'll make sad sad reading for a European
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I bet if you tally up the results between the big 4 of the north and the big 4 from the south in 2012 it'll make sad sad reading for a European
RugbyFan69 December 02, 2012 2:24 pm
Did anyone else notice that England were slowing the ball down on most breakdowns? It was almost like they sent a player in just to do that, sometimes a few. I'm suprized that only 1 yellow card was given.
Pretty shocking ref, most games he is in charge of have a huge penatly count.
Pretty shocking ref, most games he is in charge of have a huge penatly count.
Rugga85 December 02, 2012 8:05 pm
I agree. I thought the ref was very very lenient with England. They seemed to be given more time at disrupting the breakdown that NZ. I'm interested in seeing the penakty stats; I'm sure they will be heavily in favour to England.
Also I thought Cory Jane was onside for the kick receive from Carter. That was a certain try. Always interesting when they don't replay those incidents. Prob because it was an incorrect call but don't want to show that to the English television supporters! Again the ref thought not.
Overall, England played well, but New Zealand were hinded by the ref and the virus.
Also I thought Cory Jane was onside for the kick receive from Carter. That was a certain try. Always interesting when they don't replay those incidents. Prob because it was an incorrect call but don't want to show that to the English television supporters! Again the ref thought not.
Overall, England played well, but New Zealand were hinded by the ref and the virus.
stroudos December 02, 2012 9:02 pm
Are you trolling or just ill-informed?
Penalties conceded: England 11, NZ 13.
Source: http://www.espnscrum.com/new-zealand-tour-2012/rugby/match/153977.html
Penalties conceded: England 11, NZ 13.
Source: http://www.espnscrum.com/new-zealand-tour-2012/rugby/match/153977.html
MrP December 02, 2012 10:51 pm
I watched it on Prime in NZ last night and it was way closer than the reporting tells it, just goes to show that margins of error are very small in games like this. I just think that England had the ABs figured out and executed a gameplan to exploit their predictability (for once!)
They replayed the Jane offside a million times and to be honest, it looked offside from some angles, it looked onside from others. In balance, fair call from the ref.
Carter was awful, not sure why Hansen didn't replace him early(ish) on.
Don't blame it on the ref and the virus, the AB's were the worse team on the day, give England some credit where it's due.
They replayed the Jane offside a million times and to be honest, it looked offside from some angles, it looked onside from others. In balance, fair call from the ref.
Carter was awful, not sure why Hansen didn't replace him early(ish) on.
Don't blame it on the ref and the virus, the AB's were the worse team on the day, give England some credit where it's due.
matt December 03, 2012 12:23 am
If anything the ref gave NZ every chance, the maul that apparently stopped in NZs 22, a little later in the first half the ball came out of a ruck, hit Smith in the leg and bounced back into the man on the floor, who then played it back again, the ref even called that it had come off his leg but allowed NZ to play on with the ball. The All black's first try, and only real passage of control in the game came from a logic defying pentalty against Owen Farrell for tackling Aaron Smith with the ball, the penalty that resulted in Vunipola being sent off came from a ruck where there were 5 All Blacks lying on the floor and over the ruck yet Tuilagi, as the tackler, was penalised for being off his feet.
Benny December 03, 2012 3:28 pm
I assume you're just trying to wind everyone up but in case you're not, bringing up the ref might be excusable if we'd lost by 1 point but let's face facts, we got our arses handed to us. There were a few calls i disagreed with but as with every game and every season, the team that plays the most rugby tends to get away with a bit more. We weren't the team playing the rugby on saturday.
Congrats to the English. A pity it only counts if you can do it at the world cup *joking* it's the first time in my life i could say that :)
Congrats to the English. A pity it only counts if you can do it at the world cup *joking* it's the first time in my life i could say that :)
Matt December 02, 2012 3:49 pm
I here the search has already started for theEnglish Suzie..?
kadova December 02, 2012 4:30 pm
lol, Matt ! I was thinking of this, too
(only joking...)
(only joking...)
FilippoDC December 02, 2012 10:00 pm
Will the full match be posted soon? I NEED to see this game!
Bumptruck December 02, 2012 10:47 pm
Have a cheeky look at 30 mins 35 seconds into the game- Farrell very very lucky not to be cited!!! Cracks Dagg witha serious swinging arm to the noggin!
mise December 03, 2012 2:41 am
@bumptruck (and in general)
check out the perfect, subtle cheating at 1.02: NZ #13 ENG #10 strolling along, hand in hand, but only one player is benefiting....
Well done to England, they dominated and really had NZ rattled by the middle of the second half - no mean feat. Somehow, I think that if there was a series of NZ ENG games, the next one might result in a slaughtering of ENG, but we'll never know. Good for rugby thou, this result. Shakes things up a bit.
Some lot of talk of SBW in NZ press, and what he might have done, but I'm not sure if anything would have helped this weekend.
check out the perfect, subtle cheating at 1.02: NZ #13 ENG #10 strolling along, hand in hand, but only one player is benefiting....
Well done to England, they dominated and really had NZ rattled by the middle of the second half - no mean feat. Somehow, I think that if there was a series of NZ ENG games, the next one might result in a slaughtering of ENG, but we'll never know. Good for rugby thou, this result. Shakes things up a bit.
Some lot of talk of SBW in NZ press, and what he might have done, but I'm not sure if anything would have helped this weekend.
Pretzel December 03, 2012 3:02 am
"check out the perfect, subtle cheating at 1.02: NZ #13 ENG #10 strolling along, hand in hand, but only one player is benefiting..."
How do you know only one player benefited? NZ 13 may have been courting the Eng 10, if they're holding hands he may have suceeded in the first stage, this could result in a beautiful relationship..
How do you know only one player benefited? NZ 13 may have been courting the Eng 10, if they're holding hands he may have suceeded in the first stage, this could result in a beautiful relationship..
mise December 03, 2012 3:40 am
true Pretzel, I'm prejudging and preempting...
courting eh? haven't heard that word in a while. A bit like wooing (is that even how you spell wooing?!?) ...who's wooing who(m) in this clip? Not sure....
And hey, didn't Michael Jackson say (something like) love isn't black and white he wasn't all 'Bad' was he.....there's ...shades...of... grey.... *gets coat, leaves promptly*
courting eh? haven't heard that word in a while. A bit like wooing (is that even how you spell wooing?!?) ...who's wooing who(m) in this clip? Not sure....
And hey, didn't Michael Jackson say (something like) love isn't black and white he wasn't all 'Bad' was he.....there's ...shades...of... grey.... *gets coat, leaves promptly*
Funkyrooster December 03, 2012 11:16 am
The evil novovirus wasn't responsible for Conrad Smith flying out of the line to mark Tuilangi and thus open the door for Barrit to steam through. The evil novovirus didn't force Read to throw an intercept pass. The novovirus didn't appear to hamper Savea one little bit. And they all looked pretty sprightly in the last 10 minutes to be honest.
Let go of the illness excuse, AB fans. Doesn't do you any credit.
Let go of the illness excuse, AB fans. Doesn't do you any credit.
stroudos December 03, 2012 3:14 pm
Funkyrooster:
Let go of the illness excuse, AB fans. Doesn't do you any credit.
I'm not aware of a single AB fan using that excuse. Definitely not on this page anyway, where the only people to have even mentioned it are non-Kiwis, as far as I can tell.
Let go of the illness excuse, AB fans. Doesn't do you any credit.
I'm not aware of a single AB fan using that excuse. Definitely not on this page anyway, where the only people to have even mentioned it are non-Kiwis, as far as I can tell.
SpencaH December 04, 2012 12:45 pm
Hear hear! or is it Here here!....aye, who knows but I agree!
Nunny December 03, 2012 11:23 am
Just shows that Running rugby wins both points as well as supporters. Someone tell Robbie Deans that he might win a few if the Wallabies keep the ball in hand. Last night was atrocious to watch!
Congrats to England
Congrats to England
Tom Green December 03, 2012 4:44 pm
It was to get everyone in the match day 23 to get some time on the pitch on an outstanding team effort and for everyone involved to get a massive lift from smashing the best team in the world. How would you like it if you were on the bench for that game and didn't get any dirt on your boots?
Nick December 03, 2012 11:45 pm
It's certainly a fantastic result for england. Personally I think the illness made the scoreline better but i think England if they had performed the same would have won but by a smaller margin.
End of Super 15 season, End of their autumn tour, maybe a mixture of first half complacency, Fatigue, Illness and a great England performance.
One thing i will say though,as an england supporter, at this moment in time it's crazy to think that England at their best would beat NZ at their best. They're still too good in my opinion. But it is international rugby and not top trumps so anything can happen in any game.
End of Super 15 season, End of their autumn tour, maybe a mixture of first half complacency, Fatigue, Illness and a great England performance.
One thing i will say though,as an england supporter, at this moment in time it's crazy to think that England at their best would beat NZ at their best. They're still too good in my opinion. But it is international rugby and not top trumps so anything can happen in any game.
SpencaH December 04, 2012 12:56 pm
Just a wee dip into History pages....NZ have come down with food poisoning on more than one occasion. Most notably the final of the 1995 RWC where the food poisoning source was heavily debated. Yet they still went on to perform to a level which no one could question was impeded by their supposed poisoning. Even if they did lose to a Joel Stransky drop goal in extra time....one of the best world cups to date in my opinion. (not at all bias views from a Zimbo/safa neighbour)
However I had food poisoning last month and I was dead to the world for at least 3 days so the fact they not only recovered but played an international test is testament to their professionalism and their staff for getting them ready. Equally the way in which Richie and Hanson presented themselves was incredibly gracious, should be commended AND replicated in other sports....especially those with round balls!
This game and what followed is definitely bigging up men with odd shaped balls!
However I had food poisoning last month and I was dead to the world for at least 3 days so the fact they not only recovered but played an international test is testament to their professionalism and their staff for getting them ready. Equally the way in which Richie and Hanson presented themselves was incredibly gracious, should be commended AND replicated in other sports....especially those with round balls!
This game and what followed is definitely bigging up men with odd shaped balls!
Pretzel December 04, 2012 3:06 pm
Well I guess it makes you wonder what meds they have access too. I'm not suggesting anything untoward at all, but I assume they have the perfect combination drugs and corks or something.
Hmmmm drips anyone? Do these guys ever use them?
Hmmmm drips anyone? Do these guys ever use them?
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