Thursday, February 21, 2013
Sergio Parisse red carded and banned for insulting referee
Italy captain and Stade Francais number eight Sergio Parisse was yesterday banned for 40 days following the red card he received his team's Top 14 match against Bordeaux-Begles last Saturday. It wasn't the only controversy of the match however.
Parisse was deemed to have insulted referee Laurent Cardona as his team lost possesion. Cardona would not tolerate it, so showed him a straight red card. As you can see in the subtitled video we've organised for you below, Parisse was shocked and incensed, arguing all the way to the sideline.
On Twitter he later apologied but insisted he was hard done by: "Sorry to my teammates and fans for the red card, which I find too harsh! I never insulted M.Cardona," he tweeted.
"Thank you all for your messages of support! I am convinced that this misunderstanding would be cleared without consequences! #justice," he later added, before yesterday being banned for 40 days (10 suspended) by the French natonal league (LNR) discplinary committee.
Parisse will miss the rest of the Six Nations as a result, although he has reportedly appealed the decision, with a new hearing to take place as early as Monday or Tuesday next week.
Wales defence coach Shaun Edwards has said that it isn't the first time Parisse has done this.
"Funnily enough, we were watching footage on Friday from the game last year and you can clearly hear him on the ref's mic coming out with profanities in the ref's earshot about what damage he was going to do to one of our players if he did the same thing again," said Edwards.
"So, it's no surprise to me that he has been done for backchat to a referee."
A few minutes after Parisse was sent off, Stade Francais scored from a quickly taken lineout that was taken with the wrong ball. Referee Cardona allowed it, sparking scenes from the sideline.
Below you can view a subtitled video of the Parisse incident, the controversial try, and a short Julien Dupuy interview. Thanks to one of our kind contributors for the translations.
Posted at 2:33 pm | 73 comments
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Related Posts
Italy stun France with another Six Nations upset win in Rome
Will Skinner red carded from the bench vs Toulouse
Mike Phillips controversial try sets up Wales win
Italy shock France with upset victory in Rome
Julien Dupuy attacks the eyes of Stephen Ferris
Sergio Parisse suspended for eight weeks for eye-gouge
Dupuy's winning try vs Bath (2009)
Blues score a try from a quick lineout - Poor refereeing
Posted in See it to Believe it
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Viewing 73 comments
DaRabman February 21, 2013 5:47 pm
Haha, you have credit the brazen honesty of Dupuy's words at the end!
Silly stuff.
Silly stuff.
Moo February 21, 2013 11:41 pm
After the gauging incident a while back, I'd rather not credit him with anything.
Tyke February 23, 2013 1:18 pm
Depuy comments are a disgrace and yet more evidence that players and coaching staff are willing to do what ever to win, cheating included. Are we now going down the kissball route? This includes play acting and feigning injury. If so then players and coaches can expect the same discipline from referees as in kissball. Cards for acts that may not be as they seem. If you want respect from officials then show them the same, this includes cutting out the blatant cheating......
TechnoMouse February 21, 2013 5:51 pm
Not only is the quick lineout taken with the wrong ball, the ball is also passed to whoever takes the lineout. Is there not a rule that says if the ball has touched another person/object then a quick lineout cannot be taken anyway? Seems a bit bizarre to me.
On the Parisse incident, I would like to know what he said in order for the red card to be given in the first place... both him and the Bordeaux coach seem to give the ref/assistant ref a right earful anyway though.
On the Parisse incident, I would like to know what he said in order for the red card to be given in the first place... both him and the Bordeaux coach seem to give the ref/assistant ref a right earful anyway though.
paimoe February 21, 2013 6:15 pm
Yes, it has to be both the same ball and not touched by anyone else. I think Rolland yelled at someone because they touched the ball (an assistant coach or something like that) to prevent the other team from taking it quickly.
ajb February 21, 2013 6:39 pm
Wasn't it Rolland who red-carded Will Skinner for doing that in a Heineken Cup match?
Rugbydump February 21, 2013 6:50 pm
Hi AJB, yes, it's been added to the related posts above. Thanks for reminding us - Will Skinner red carded on bench
Tony February 21, 2013 6:09 pm
The subtitles add nothing! We want to know what was said to the referee!!!
moddeur February 21, 2013 6:13 pm
Referee Cardona and the line judge have been suspended for two matches, according to RMC Sport. (for the quick lineout)
Me February 21, 2013 6:14 pm
Quick L/O was just wrong - not a good call. Wrong ball and touched by someone else just horrid.
I've seen another translation of this and SP apparently calls the ref the C word. If this is true then it's a straight red in my book. The conversation after the red is not relevant
I've seen another translation of this and SP apparently calls the ref the C word. If this is true then it's a straight red in my book. The conversation after the red is not relevant
moddeur February 21, 2013 6:25 pm
I read somewhere that Parisse insulted the ref in English, thinking it wouldn't get noticed.
RugbyBXL February 22, 2013 1:22 am
There's too much speculation on this. What's been said has to be public and proved (everything is recorded anyway). On the c word I really doubt SP would do that. It is more likely an insult in Spanish or Italian. Still this is speculation.
Overall, I can't avoid thinking that the quick l/o demonstrates the inadequacy of the ref, which can be called in question on the SP's insult case too.
Overall, I can't avoid thinking that the quick l/o demonstrates the inadequacy of the ref, which can be called in question on the SP's insult case too.
Guest February 21, 2013 6:39 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YyXTwe6eSw
It has already happened in a 6 Nations game. That time the ball was given by the boyball;
It has already happened in a 6 Nations game. That time the ball was given by the boyball;
Rugbydump February 21, 2013 6:51 pm
Yep, thanks - Mike Phillips controversial try from quick lineout
Guy February 21, 2013 6:57 pm
I don't even have to know what Parisse told the ref on the pitch. He shows a clear lack of respect coming of the pitch so I asume his behaviour on the field was no different.
Very bad example and morronic behaviour, glad he got a proper punishment.
Very bad example and morronic behaviour, glad he got a proper punishment.
themull February 21, 2013 8:00 pm
If i got sent off wrongly I and any other normal human being would not take it lightly either..if he was sent off wrongly then he has justification for being annoyed..obviously if he did insult the referee then he deserved his card because that sort of ting has no place in rugby and should have no place in any other sport either...
people like to come on here and act like they would have just walked off quietly in the same situation, but I can't judge anybody for not giving out a bit if he was sent off wrongly...
people like to come on here and act like they would have just walked off quietly in the same situation, but I can't judge anybody for not giving out a bit if he was sent off wrongly...
Canadian content February 22, 2013 12:52 am
Completely agree, in fact his protests are more concurrent with an innocent person who was genuinely frustrated rather than someone caught out.
However, I'd like to know what the red thinks he said
However, I'd like to know what the red thinks he said
Full Back February 21, 2013 8:13 pm
The official version is that he told the ref to "f**k off"....I find this very unlikely as he's an Argentinian-Italian playing rugby in France, it's far more likely that the referee was mistaken and reacted rashly.
Seeing as he went on to show further ineptitude I find his being mistaken the more likely event.
He didn't say anything that 99% of people in his position would have said, if he was talking to his teammates and the ref comes along and gives him a red card without even explaining himself then I think he was actually quite controlled in his behaviour.
His missing the rest of the six-nations is a joke in my opinion.
Seeing as he went on to show further ineptitude I find his being mistaken the more likely event.
He didn't say anything that 99% of people in his position would have said, if he was talking to his teammates and the ref comes along and gives him a red card without even explaining himself then I think he was actually quite controlled in his behaviour.
His missing the rest of the six-nations is a joke in my opinion.
buranino February 21, 2013 10:24 pm
in fact the expletive he pronounced a teammate, and he was not even addressed to 'referee ......
"justice" could not accept the appeal of Parisse (the 'referee has already been stopped for two weeks after the "heroic deeds" of that game .... a tightening would ridicule the same federation ....)
is much better disqualify less than the minimum sentence (from 40 days to one year) ......... do 30 days, because surely he thinks (in his head) that the referee is incompetent (and therefore in the end, it is right to punish him!)
"justice" could not accept the appeal of Parisse (the 'referee has already been stopped for two weeks after the "heroic deeds" of that game .... a tightening would ridicule the same federation ....)
is much better disqualify less than the minimum sentence (from 40 days to one year) ......... do 30 days, because surely he thinks (in his head) that the referee is incompetent (and therefore in the end, it is right to punish him!)
Guy February 21, 2013 11:49 pm
I am not judging him on what he said ON the field, I judge him on how he behaves afterwards. For God's sake: you're on television and the entire world is watching you. Don't behave like a frikkin' footballer!
I have always had high esteem for Parisse but I guess in this case justice has been served.
I have always had high esteem for Parisse but I guess in this case justice has been served.
DrG February 22, 2013 2:41 am
Justice for who Guy? IF (and it's a big IF) Parisse didn't direct anything towards the referee then there is no justice at all... Obviously his rants afterwards (caught on camera, or too the camera?) were not the most ideal thing for him to have done, but one can hardly blame him (again>) IF he hadn't said anything in the first place.
Guy February 22, 2013 10:24 am
Honestly, I would be more inclined to believe he is innocent if he had walked of quietly...like every other proper rugbyplayer who has had an incorrect decision against him. His behaviour afterwards just doesn't support his case.
Flying Tacklemonkey February 22, 2013 11:07 am
Exactly.
I know Chris Ashton isn't liked a lot by some people here but when he got carded after Tuilagi punched him three times he just walked off despite being innocent in the matter.
Not a word to the ref.
I know Chris Ashton isn't liked a lot by some people here but when he got carded after Tuilagi punched him three times he just walked off despite being innocent in the matter.
Not a word to the ref.
DrG February 22, 2013 12:54 pm
Guy AND FlyingTM, when have you EVER heard of a quiet Italian or a quiet Argentinian? imagine a combination of the two nations...
Jokes aside his reaction to me suggests he did say something but that it was perhaps not aimed at the referee.
Jokes aside his reaction to me suggests he did say something but that it was perhaps not aimed at the referee.
matt the mauler February 22, 2013 2:56 pm
To be fair, he did call him Sir during his rant!
Rdad February 23, 2013 4:57 pm
That was my favourite part of the whole incident!
The referee must have been pretty certain of what he heard, judging by his reaction. I suppose that if there's a difference of opinion, and no hard evidence, then the union has to go with the referee.
In general, as good as I think Sergio is, and I think he's possibly the best 8 in the world, his on-field behaviour has become increasingly tiresome, with ever-greater levels of backchat, arm-waving etc. I guess it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Sergio needs to stop believing his own publicity and get on with playing rugby.
The referee must have been pretty certain of what he heard, judging by his reaction. I suppose that if there's a difference of opinion, and no hard evidence, then the union has to go with the referee.
In general, as good as I think Sergio is, and I think he's possibly the best 8 in the world, his on-field behaviour has become increasingly tiresome, with ever-greater levels of backchat, arm-waving etc. I guess it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
Sergio needs to stop believing his own publicity and get on with playing rugby.
DanKnapp February 21, 2013 7:16 pm
It doesn't matter really who said what. The referee is the full and final arbitrator of the laws when the game is in progress. If he feels that a player has insulted him then that player goes off the pitch immediately, as in this case. It is entirely plausible that referees will make mistakes, and if Parisse has any sense he would accept that.
This sending off once again underlines the difference between rugby and football. I was starting to worry that players were being allowed to get away with too much chat on the field. I'd like to see more of this, and more players being marched back ten yards for arguing the toss.
Well done sir.
This sending off once again underlines the difference between rugby and football. I was starting to worry that players were being allowed to get away with too much chat on the field. I'd like to see more of this, and more players being marched back ten yards for arguing the toss.
Well done sir.
buranino February 21, 2013 10:06 pm
????
then it is normal for you eject the Italian team-mate of a player who is swearing in English? (the referee was offended by an "F ° ° K IT" at the beginning of action, or at least that's what he wrote in his report ...)
because "the 'referee is always right, even when he's wrong?"
the 'referee must apply the rules, or to direct the game (and the result ...)
before answering (unless you want to do .... ^ _ ^), look at ALL the game, and other decisions that took
then it is normal for you eject the Italian team-mate of a player who is swearing in English? (the referee was offended by an "F ° ° K IT" at the beginning of action, or at least that's what he wrote in his report ...)
because "the 'referee is always right, even when he's wrong?"
the 'referee must apply the rules, or to direct the game (and the result ...)
before answering (unless you want to do .... ^ _ ^), look at ALL the game, and other decisions that took
Canadian content February 22, 2013 12:56 am
So the ref has immunity and can make whatever decision he wants without expecting a rebuke?
I'd like to see you humbly accept being sent from your place of work for what someone perceived you said in passing
I'd like to see you humbly accept being sent from your place of work for what someone perceived you said in passing
Flying Tacklemonkey February 22, 2013 11:12 am
No, the ref can expect a rebuke but not on the field and most certainly not from the players.
I'm sure he has to answer for poor decisions to the power that be.
You have to understand that it's fair to say that each and every player is stronger and in most cases bigger than the ref.
It's very easy to intimidate an arbiter by bullying him on the field.
This culture of respect for the ref is the only thing that keeps this game from slipping into the abyss like that other sport.
I'm sure he has to answer for poor decisions to the power that be.
You have to understand that it's fair to say that each and every player is stronger and in most cases bigger than the ref.
It's very easy to intimidate an arbiter by bullying him on the field.
This culture of respect for the ref is the only thing that keeps this game from slipping into the abyss like that other sport.
DanKnapp February 24, 2013 9:55 am
Brunino, I accept that the referee might make mistakes from time to time, but so do players. It is unacceptable for players to undermine the referee on the pitch, regardless of whether he is right or wrong. Once he has made a decision, players must respect that.
If he made a mistake, then that is unfortunate for Parisse, but Parisse will have benefited from the mistakes of previous referees on many occasions. You just don't go arguing with the referee on the pitch.
I don't want to see rugby descend to the level of football, where players can scream at the referee on the pitch and nothing happens, and so a few simple lines are needed:
- You don't swear at the referee
- You don't argue with the referee
- You accept the decisions he makes, even when you don't agree with them, and then talk about it after the game
I don't get why this isn't commonly accepted?
If he made a mistake, then that is unfortunate for Parisse, but Parisse will have benefited from the mistakes of previous referees on many occasions. You just don't go arguing with the referee on the pitch.
I don't want to see rugby descend to the level of football, where players can scream at the referee on the pitch and nothing happens, and so a few simple lines are needed:
- You don't swear at the referee
- You don't argue with the referee
- You accept the decisions he makes, even when you don't agree with them, and then talk about it after the game
I don't get why this isn't commonly accepted?
buranino February 24, 2013 12:20 pm
- You accept the decisions he makes, even when you don't agree with them, and then talk about it after the game
I don't get why this isn't commonly accepted?
simple:
because AFTER the match, the judge, to decide the penalty can be based ONLY on the report, without listening to the player, without feeling the partner willing to admit OWN word, without looking at the videos of the 15 cameras present, without listening to the sounds of the 15 microphones focused on the mouths of the players ......
the evidence was there, I would just listen .......
in a process EQUITABLE, also the culprit has the right to a lawyer ........... here does not have an innocent .....
if rugby justice is this, you are digging the grave with his own hands ....
I don't get why this isn't commonly accepted?
simple:
because AFTER the match, the judge, to decide the penalty can be based ONLY on the report, without listening to the player, without feeling the partner willing to admit OWN word, without looking at the videos of the 15 cameras present, without listening to the sounds of the 15 microphones focused on the mouths of the players ......
the evidence was there, I would just listen .......
in a process EQUITABLE, also the culprit has the right to a lawyer ........... here does not have an innocent .....
if rugby justice is this, you are digging the grave with his own hands ....
DanKnapp February 25, 2013 8:24 am
That is a separate issue which I'll happily accept.
I believe appeals/citings should be based on all the evidence available to him, and so I agree with you.
My point was rather limited only to Parisse's seeming refusal to leave the pitch when he was sent off. Once again, I believe that it is important to let the referee be the referee at that time, and not to argue. The referee cannot be undermined in front of the players, the crowd and TV audience. It's just not on.
I believe appeals/citings should be based on all the evidence available to him, and so I agree with you.
My point was rather limited only to Parisse's seeming refusal to leave the pitch when he was sent off. Once again, I believe that it is important to let the referee be the referee at that time, and not to argue. The referee cannot be undermined in front of the players, the crowd and TV audience. It's just not on.
Cardiff Blues Fan February 21, 2013 7:17 pm
I agree with Guy, he'd said enough afterwards to suggest the red was justified. But as a Welshman it's a shame, because Parisse is an outstanding player, and assuming Wales win this weekend, his absence will have taken a little of the shine off it.
Reality February 21, 2013 8:05 pm
Am I the only one who thinks this seems out of character? I remember seeing Italy get screwed over by Stewart Dickinson at the end of match against the All Blacks where he penalised the All Blacks in the scrum 5m from their line for literally 10 minutes, but refused to give a penalty try, and while I would have gone mad at the referee, Parisse just sort of gave him frustrated looks. Maybe this is just an exceptional case, but I can't imagine him being perfectly respectful in such outrageous circumstances, and then being so disrespectful in this meaningless match. And if he really didn't insult him and got red-carded for a misunderstanding, then I think his protests were completely justified. I'd be fit to be tied in that situation.
Although of course, if he did insult him, then the card was deserved.
Although of course, if he did insult him, then the card was deserved.
matt February 21, 2013 8:32 pm
I have no idea about Parisse's character, but Sean Edwards seems to think it is fairly run of the mill for him.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/six-nations-shaun-edwards-not-1716521
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/six-nations-shaun-edwards-not-1716521
rugby08 February 23, 2013 2:38 pm
Edwards needs to focos on his teams leaky defence and shut up.
Reality February 23, 2013 10:42 pm
Shaun Edwards. Clearly, a classy, classy guy.
matt February 21, 2013 8:34 pm
I also think Dupuy is a tosser, and whoever the other guy shouting at the referee was is a twat too, if you're a pro, you need to act that way.
SpencaH February 21, 2013 8:41 pm
Imagine this happened in football....there would be no1 left on the pitch!
TheWoodSpoon February 21, 2013 8:58 pm
* The following analysis is just my own interpretation of the voices we hear in the footage! I don't guarantee the correctness *
@0:02: you hear "M*rde" (Sh*t) but can not identify the player on the images
@0:09: a voice shouts "Puto puto" (Italian? Spanish?)
@0:14: While looking at the ref, Parisse says "We can not play like this".
It seems that this is the same voice who shouts these words (it seems only...). Was Parisse the one shouting the first words? I do not know but it was definitely coarse language and someone was aimed by these words (but we can not make sure it was the referee!).
@0:02: you hear "M*rde" (Sh*t) but can not identify the player on the images
@0:09: a voice shouts "Puto puto" (Italian? Spanish?)
@0:14: While looking at the ref, Parisse says "We can not play like this".
It seems that this is the same voice who shouts these words (it seems only...). Was Parisse the one shouting the first words? I do not know but it was definitely coarse language and someone was aimed by these words (but we can not make sure it was the referee!).
buranino February 21, 2013 10:41 pm
forgive me ...
OFFICIAL version speaks of offense in English (F..k off ...... not s. .T)
I am Italo-Argentine, and I can assure you that PUTO PUTO is neither an offense nor a 'imprecation in any of the 2 languages ??^ _ ^
(but if you want, I can teach you a lot ....... but not here :-) )
OFFICIAL version speaks of offense in English (F..k off ...... not s. .T)
I am Italo-Argentine, and I can assure you that PUTO PUTO is neither an offense nor a 'imprecation in any of the 2 languages ??^ _ ^
(but if you want, I can teach you a lot ....... but not here :-) )
Ottawa Rugger February 22, 2013 6:27 pm
I read somewhere (can't recall where sadly) that Parisse had said he was cursing under his breath at the way play was going on. He didn't direct it towards the ref. That's the "we can not play like this part". The first curses were frustration, and I think Parisse was arguing that the ref thought they were directed at him.
bnations February 21, 2013 9:42 pm
According to the ubran dictionary, puto is a very bad word indeed to Spanish speakers.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puto
Just sayin ...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=puto
Just sayin ...
Lucius February 22, 2013 10:04 pm
Ehm... according to the urban dictionary the word "Puto" is (also)
"A Filipino rice cake eaten as a dessert".
For example: Pass me some of that puto, puto!
"A Filipino rice cake eaten as a dessert".
For example: Pass me some of that puto, puto!
cheyanqui February 24, 2013 6:52 am
the Philippines is also the place where MILF run amok in the South.
Frenchie February 21, 2013 10:15 pm
The tough thing here is that we cannot hear clearly the initial insult that Cardona refers to. The audible conversation between the two seems to start after the "incident".
Anyway i think Parisse should have not said anything and kept his mouth shut on the sideline wether he likes the red card or not; clearly something wrong has been said for the ref to red card a player for verbal abuse.
Stade Français has made an appeal of the decision; does it mean Parisse can play the 6 Nations ? That'd be great to see him play against Wales
Anyway i think Parisse should have not said anything and kept his mouth shut on the sideline wether he likes the red card or not; clearly something wrong has been said for the ref to red card a player for verbal abuse.
Stade Français has made an appeal of the decision; does it mean Parisse can play the 6 Nations ? That'd be great to see him play against Wales
buranino February 21, 2013 11:05 pm
the first appeal has been rejected, the commission did not want to see other movies, nor hear the testimony of teammate Parisse, who swears to having made a mistake .....
the Solomonic decision has been made .......
justice is equal for all ...... but for someone are "more equal"
the Solomonic decision has been made .......
justice is equal for all ...... but for someone are "more equal"
Tc February 22, 2013 12:17 am
I think there are some quotes on here that are stuck in a long gone age of public school boy rugby. Yes we all want to play to a code that stands up in terms of respect and certainly head and shoulders above football, but to say the word of a referee is unquestionable just doesn't work in a professional game. If SP called him an offensive word then a red card is justified, but to take the moral high ground and say that a player cannot question a referee or chirp in a game is just plain naive. It goes on all the time. Some players even master it - Fitzpatrick springs to mind - where the refs got played time and time again. It's the same thing dressed up differently
Flying Tacklemonkey February 22, 2013 11:31 am
Saying that it goes on all the time shouldn't make it acceptable. That's the excuse football fans use when they see one of their players dive in spectacular fashion and getting a player from the opposite team carded.
They'll say it's part of the culture or it's a good tactic. And if you don't punish such behavior it becomes not just 'a' tactic but 'the' tactic.
I do find Parrise's punishment unbelievably harsh, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It isn't about the player or the ref at this level. It's about the game in general.
They'll say it's part of the culture or it's a good tactic. And if you don't punish such behavior it becomes not just 'a' tactic but 'the' tactic.
I do find Parrise's punishment unbelievably harsh, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It isn't about the player or the ref at this level. It's about the game in general.
buranino February 22, 2013 4:33 pm
for enemies, the laws apply
for friends shall be interpreted
insulted the referee? from 40 to 365 days to stop (and, frankly, for a "f---off ref", the minimum should be 90 ...)
NOT insulted? the rules say 0! does not say from 0 to 40 days ......
otherwise by tomorrow, we can all be stopped for 30 days .....
guilty of "insulting not the 'referee'
30 days on an innocent is an insult to intelligence ,the Regulation and the honesty
for friends shall be interpreted
insulted the referee? from 40 to 365 days to stop (and, frankly, for a "f---off ref", the minimum should be 90 ...)
NOT insulted? the rules say 0! does not say from 0 to 40 days ......
otherwise by tomorrow, we can all be stopped for 30 days .....
guilty of "insulting not the 'referee'
30 days on an innocent is an insult to intelligence ,the Regulation and the honesty
DanKnapp February 24, 2013 10:05 am
I'm guessing that I'm one of the people you're talking about, and I'm proud to be.
I like the fact that most people at Twickenham go quiet when the opposition take a kick at goal. I like the lack of abuse. I like the fact that the police have only a handful of police at a ground full of 80,000 people drinking beer.
If part of that approach to this sport is that you don't argue with the referee on the pitch, so be it. Parisse isn't going to change the referee's mind, right or wrong. He might be innocent. But my point was that we have to allow referees to make these decisions if they believe the offense took place.
I like the fact that most people at Twickenham go quiet when the opposition take a kick at goal. I like the lack of abuse. I like the fact that the police have only a handful of police at a ground full of 80,000 people drinking beer.
If part of that approach to this sport is that you don't argue with the referee on the pitch, so be it. Parisse isn't going to change the referee's mind, right or wrong. He might be innocent. But my point was that we have to allow referees to make these decisions if they believe the offense took place.
TOC February 22, 2013 2:57 am
Watching this whole clip seems pretty indicative of French refereeing in general. Playing at a lower level in France the standard is atrocious and seeing as France's top referees are Messieur Poite and Garces I think we're can all agree that the standard can't be the highest.
Those 2 are the worst referees on the international stage by quite some distance.
Those 2 are the worst referees on the international stage by quite some distance.
stroudos February 22, 2013 3:42 am
From a neutral rugby-spectating perspective, what a player to miss the rest of the six nations. Well, it will be interesting to see how Italy get on without their leader, captain, best player and talisman anyway...
DanKnapp February 24, 2013 10:06 am
I'm particularly fed up because he was in my fantasy team, and was doing well for me. Having to change him and Healey meant I wasn't able to put in Tuilagi as planned. Git.
Airish February 22, 2013 9:08 am
Big question is why the ref has to explain "it" in the dressing room?? IMO red card shouldnt need any explanations!
DrG February 22, 2013 1:09 pm
You don't think players should be given an explanation? I quite enjoy the explanations for any card, it makes it perhaps more understandable as the where the rulings stand nowadays.
DrG February 22, 2013 1:05 pm
I'm somewhat on middle ground when it comes down to referee's powers. Some of you have gone strong one way (referee's are untouchable) others have gone the other way (it's a professional game, referee's should be accountable)...
Whilst I somewhat agree they should be accountable, I am then lead to believe (from what I have seen in numerous games) that they then become HUGELY hesitant to pull out a big card. This in some ways is the first red card I have seen in a long time, or at least the first of a few in a long time. The Super rugby had white cards, and the NH used yellows in order to "pass the buck"...and lets face it, many of those incidents which were yellow carded/white carded, were then followed up with citings and bans, which to me screams "RED CARD". But who wants to incorrectly red card a player?? But at the same time it means referee's want to be 100% sure before they do pull out a red, and in a game of rugby at least in the field of play its not always possible to be 100%. So in short I don't want referee's to be scared of pulling out the big red card.
Take Hore Davies incident, it SHOULD have been a red card, then you have 15 v 14 different result perhaps?
It feels to me that lately the game has started punishing the individuals off the pitch rather than punishing the team ON the pitch.
HOWEVER, all that being said, these try's where a different ball has been used or touched by someone else, need to be sorted out, so does that mean punishing a referee? It's a tough job I'm sure, 30 famous rugby players running around and the crowds opinions mostly fixate on that 1 man with the whistle.
Whilst I somewhat agree they should be accountable, I am then lead to believe (from what I have seen in numerous games) that they then become HUGELY hesitant to pull out a big card. This in some ways is the first red card I have seen in a long time, or at least the first of a few in a long time. The Super rugby had white cards, and the NH used yellows in order to "pass the buck"...and lets face it, many of those incidents which were yellow carded/white carded, were then followed up with citings and bans, which to me screams "RED CARD". But who wants to incorrectly red card a player?? But at the same time it means referee's want to be 100% sure before they do pull out a red, and in a game of rugby at least in the field of play its not always possible to be 100%. So in short I don't want referee's to be scared of pulling out the big red card.
Take Hore Davies incident, it SHOULD have been a red card, then you have 15 v 14 different result perhaps?
It feels to me that lately the game has started punishing the individuals off the pitch rather than punishing the team ON the pitch.
HOWEVER, all that being said, these try's where a different ball has been used or touched by someone else, need to be sorted out, so does that mean punishing a referee? It's a tough job I'm sure, 30 famous rugby players running around and the crowds opinions mostly fixate on that 1 man with the whistle.
PeterHull February 22, 2013 1:40 pm
If he was out of line then he was rightly sent off. I'm not sure that swearing at the ref should get a longer ban then stamping on a player though (Cian Healey last week for example). Equally, I think an important question is whether an infringement during a French domestic league game should be allowed to impact on the Italian national team's chances in a completely seperate competition. Would a ban on playing within the relevant league not be more appropriate here? Imagine if McCaw, Johnson, Smit or Eales (gobby buggers to the last) had been banned for saying something nasty during a home league game shortly before their winning world cup tournaments.
matt the mauler February 22, 2013 3:18 pm
It's such a strange one. I know I've sworn out loud when our team were playing poorly and at that moment Stade F had just let the opposition walk it out of the 22, so you can understand why Parisse would say something in frustration towards his team/under his breath.
Also the ref (unless there was something in the build up which we don't see) hadn't done anything during that phase of play to imply that Parisse would be angry at him and therefore direct the language at him. Also by the time the ref blows his whistle Parisse is 10m ahead of him implying he said it as he was running, perhaps unfortunately past him at the time.
Now the red card was handed out. And while he protested about this afterwards he did so off the field. I think his protests weren't too bad and I agree it probably demostrates his innocence - most people who get red cards know they do, or can understand why they get one that's why they're okay to walk off in silence and reflect on their mistake.
I also agree that he shouldn't be banned to play in the 6 Nations for an offence in a different domestic competition - it's not even as if his club is affliated with his national team (like in Scotland, Ireland and Wales). What a real shame.
Now of course. If he did swear at/insult the ref he total deserves a red card and a ban. But on what I can see it just doesn't stack up.
Also what a shocking try to give.
Also the ref (unless there was something in the build up which we don't see) hadn't done anything during that phase of play to imply that Parisse would be angry at him and therefore direct the language at him. Also by the time the ref blows his whistle Parisse is 10m ahead of him implying he said it as he was running, perhaps unfortunately past him at the time.
Now the red card was handed out. And while he protested about this afterwards he did so off the field. I think his protests weren't too bad and I agree it probably demostrates his innocence - most people who get red cards know they do, or can understand why they get one that's why they're okay to walk off in silence and reflect on their mistake.
I also agree that he shouldn't be banned to play in the 6 Nations for an offence in a different domestic competition - it's not even as if his club is affliated with his national team (like in Scotland, Ireland and Wales). What a real shame.
Now of course. If he did swear at/insult the ref he total deserves a red card and a ban. But on what I can see it just doesn't stack up.
Also what a shocking try to give.
buranino February 22, 2013 5:26 pm
Regulation is clear
if a player receives a suspension in time, it applies to ALL the competitions (personally I agree 100%)
from my point of view, the reconstruction is clear:
the referee CHOOSES not to apply the regulation to 100%, to increase the rate of game (I do not dispute this ...) when a foul is not sanctioned, a player swear...... the referee is CONSCIOUS have not whistled, and BELIEVES to be the target of a dirty word (f...off becomes f....ffREF)
SP asks to 'referee explanations of non-intervention, the referee BELIEVE he is the' offending, and by the red .......
then realizes he's made ??(another) mistake, and gets confused and begins to apply the regulation so ....... um ........ "artistic"?
if a player receives a suspension in time, it applies to ALL the competitions (personally I agree 100%)
from my point of view, the reconstruction is clear:
the referee CHOOSES not to apply the regulation to 100%, to increase the rate of game (I do not dispute this ...) when a foul is not sanctioned, a player swear...... the referee is CONSCIOUS have not whistled, and BELIEVES to be the target of a dirty word (f...off becomes f....ffREF)
SP asks to 'referee explanations of non-intervention, the referee BELIEVE he is the' offending, and by the red .......
then realizes he's made ??(another) mistake, and gets confused and begins to apply the regulation so ....... um ........ "artistic"?
ComtedeChambord February 22, 2013 4:37 pm
Seems strange the reaction of Parisse. He is a gentleman, and a wonderful player, born in Argentina where he started playing rugby until his family moved to Italy. Hope that this will be a bad dream.
Jon February 23, 2013 1:27 am
Frankly this ref looks incompetent.
Terrible reffing. Arbitrary, unfair, over the top, egotistical.
IMO French refs, for the most part, are terrible.
This ref made a complete hash of this, disgraceful.
Terrible reffing. Arbitrary, unfair, over the top, egotistical.
IMO French refs, for the most part, are terrible.
This ref made a complete hash of this, disgraceful.
medicaluke February 23, 2013 10:25 am
I find Shaun Edwards remarks quite strange...
"...you can clearly hear him on the ref's mic coming out with profanities in the ref's earshot about what damage he was going to do..."
What does this have to do with anything? Is he claiming that Wales players don't use 'profanities'? This is definitely not proof or even 'evidence to suggest' that SP insults referees.
Surely there needs to be a burden of proof on referees. I think this is the case of all sports. Referees need to be performance managed and proof needs to be given for bans. I find it very strange that he offered no explanation: "I will explain in the changing rooms." That sounds an awful lot like "I will explain when I'm not being recorded." Why couldn't he be open on the field when he is on microphone?
Perhaps rugby has turned into a game where referees decide they don't want anyone swearing...
"...you can clearly hear him on the ref's mic coming out with profanities in the ref's earshot about what damage he was going to do..."
What does this have to do with anything? Is he claiming that Wales players don't use 'profanities'? This is definitely not proof or even 'evidence to suggest' that SP insults referees.
Surely there needs to be a burden of proof on referees. I think this is the case of all sports. Referees need to be performance managed and proof needs to be given for bans. I find it very strange that he offered no explanation: "I will explain in the changing rooms." That sounds an awful lot like "I will explain when I'm not being recorded." Why couldn't he be open on the field when he is on microphone?
Perhaps rugby has turned into a game where referees decide they don't want anyone swearing...
Freddie February 24, 2013 2:03 pm
Banned for 40 Days and 40 nights hes giving up Rugby for Lent
kadova February 25, 2013 12:30 am
lol ! Well spot, Freddie ! (except that's 30 days).
IMHO, Parisse didn't insult the referee, and spoke no way in english, so the referee was wrong in the first place.
I'm quite disgusted for him (i'm not italian).
IMHO, Parisse didn't insult the referee, and spoke no way in english, so the referee was wrong in the first place.
I'm quite disgusted for him (i'm not italian).
browner March 01, 2013 2:55 pm
Most of these comments are 'ref bashing'
For those of you who have never been brave enough, clever enough, or clear thinking enough let me explain something
- It's a complex game served by hundreds of laws, some which actually conflict.
- 30 musclebound testosterone filled players are often playing on or beyond what LAW allows.
- Someone has to decide which of the 'many' offences 'materially' effect the outcome.
- RC santion is very unlikely to be issued without severe provocation, it's against all the training that a referee has ever received.
- Players CANNOT stand & question decisions ...ala Parisse , the game is tough enough without such POSTURING & CROWD PERFORMANCE
I will wager that very few of the 'Ref Bashers' on this site COULD do the job at U12's let alone seniors , & the practice of blaimng the controller is COWARDLY, & Footballesk.
Just try, for one minute, to imagine a competitive match without a ref !!!!
IMO the referee is likely to be the least biased person in the stadium !
I'm in no doubt, Parisse will have been warned & would have deserved the outcome.
For those of you who have never been brave enough, clever enough, or clear thinking enough let me explain something
- It's a complex game served by hundreds of laws, some which actually conflict.
- 30 musclebound testosterone filled players are often playing on or beyond what LAW allows.
- Someone has to decide which of the 'many' offences 'materially' effect the outcome.
- RC santion is very unlikely to be issued without severe provocation, it's against all the training that a referee has ever received.
- Players CANNOT stand & question decisions ...ala Parisse , the game is tough enough without such POSTURING & CROWD PERFORMANCE
I will wager that very few of the 'Ref Bashers' on this site COULD do the job at U12's let alone seniors , & the practice of blaimng the controller is COWARDLY, & Footballesk.
Just try, for one minute, to imagine a competitive match without a ref !!!!
IMO the referee is likely to be the least biased person in the stadium !
I'm in no doubt, Parisse will have been warned & would have deserved the outcome.
buranino March 06, 2013 10:43 pm
Parisse NOT insulted the referee!
to justify the 20-day suspension and the rejection of the 1st appeal, they changed the charge to "failure to carry out duties of the captain" (an accusation that sounds like "you're dislike" .......
yet one can not speak of "justice" ........ but it is clear that the most that can be able to have .........
referees:
I had the honor and pleasure to referee handball for a few years and I WRONG thousands of decisions (..... I hope a lot less, but I could be wrong .... ^ _ ^)
and I am aware of the fact that rugby referee is MUCH MUCH MUCH more difficult.
I know right away when a referee is deemed infallible ......... are usually the ones who want to be the PROTAGONISTS OF of the game .......... and, in this specific case, it is exactly in the center of the discussion ..........
to justify the 20-day suspension and the rejection of the 1st appeal, they changed the charge to "failure to carry out duties of the captain" (an accusation that sounds like "you're dislike" .......
yet one can not speak of "justice" ........ but it is clear that the most that can be able to have .........
referees:
I had the honor and pleasure to referee handball for a few years and I WRONG thousands of decisions (..... I hope a lot less, but I could be wrong .... ^ _ ^)
and I am aware of the fact that rugby referee is MUCH MUCH MUCH more difficult.
I know right away when a referee is deemed infallible ......... are usually the ones who want to be the PROTAGONISTS OF of the game .......... and, in this specific case, it is exactly in the center of the discussion ..........
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