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Tuesday, November 12, 2013

Shirtless Brian Lima leads Samoa in Siva Tau wardance vs Ireland

Brian Lima paid tribute to fellow Samoan legend Peter Fatialofa by leading the traditional Siva Tau challenge against Ireland on Saturday. It was an emotional tribute at the start to the game, following the sudden loss of Fatialofa earlier in the week.

Former team-mate Lima, now defence coach for Samoa, led the troops, barefoot and shirt off in front of a packed Aviva Stadium. Lima and Fatialofa played together in the team that famously upset Wales in Cardiff at the 1991 Rugby World Cup.

"They played together in World Cups. It was just fitting to let Brian lead the Siva Tau," said captain Kahn Fotuali'i, who perhaps should have had a word with the ill-informed commentators prematch.

Unfortunately Samoa weren't able to take it to the Irish, who won the game comfortably 40-9.

"When we found out about Peter’s passing, that brought a bit of fire but we left it on the training paddock," Fotuali'i said. "That was not the way we want to portray our team. Urgency was a key word. And it just wasn’t there.

"It is frustrating after such a special moment of Brian leading our Siva Tau and the passing of Peter." As a result Samoa, who could have jumped to fifth on the world rankings, dropped to eighth.

Following some of the discussions below, we've added the RTE commentary version here

Page: 12View All

Posted by Rugbydump at 3:14 pm | View Comments (53)

Posted in See it to Believe it

Viewing 53 comments

Robert November 12, 2013 8:06 pm

What a great way to pay tribute to a legend of the game

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Ottawa Rugger November 12, 2013 8:09 pm

1) those commentators need to shut the f*#k up!
2) Man, he is still apparently super in shape

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browner November 13, 2013 4:52 pm

Yeah in super shape ..... Unlike the victims of his countless 'cheap shots' that masqueraded as tackles !

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finedisregard November 12, 2013 9:27 pm

So now coaches are going to start taking their shirts off before games to show how macho they are? Unfortunately Making a spectacle of himself didn't help his team.

I would feel very foolish to go through the trouble of all that dancing only to lose by more than 30 points. Maybe more time training rugby and less time dancing? Just play the games.

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AJ_Capote November 12, 2013 10:28 pm

You do realise that in this case he did it to pay tribute to a recently deceased Samoan player?

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finedisregard November 12, 2013 10:53 pm

Why not a black arm band and a moment of silence? I have a feeling that if Brian Lima (who was a fantastic player) was not so physically fit he would have chosen a different way to pay his respects.

It's old guy vanity.

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Andrew November 13, 2013 2:14 am

You're an idiot!

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DrG Top Comment | November 13, 2013 2:19 am

...I believe a black arm band is a somewhat Western culture, so why on Earth should a Samoan rugby player, who is mourning a late Samoan rugby player pay homage by adopting a Western tradition....

...Perhaps these uncivilised brown men should be forced to wear suits and serve drinks in our large houses as well???

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finedisregard November 13, 2013 12:52 pm

Black armbands are western culture? So are national anthems and flags. So are team sports. So is shaking hands after the game.

Imagine if 20 years from now O'Driscoll is coaching and say Peter Clohessy dies unexpectedly. Do you think BOD should come out with a guitar and sing the "Parting Glass" after the anthem? That is his culture, right?

1)You get a national anthem. That's it.
2) You can't tell me if Lima had put on 30 pounds since his playing days he would have chosen to pay his respects in the same manner.

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DMcMahon November 13, 2013 3:44 pm

Traditionally in Ireland death is mourned then people celebrate memories so a song wouldn't be out of the question!
On a serious note though, Its not a "dance" Its a challenge to battle (sport being the civilized alternative to battles).
You don't get "a national anthem" Ireland, for example have two anthems (one for the republic of Ireland if they are playing in the republic, and one anthem for the IRFU)

just two final questions:
do your club "keyboard warriors" have an anthem?

how does a troll know when they are being trolled?

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DrG November 13, 2013 11:16 pm


Quite simply...shut up you wanker..

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CambridgeshireKid November 14, 2013 1:34 pm

You probably shouldn't have access to the internet. Time for bed now

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frenchy November 19, 2013 1:03 pm

are you stupid or are you just trying to shock?
I come from a small town in France, where I played rugby with 2 Tongan players who settled there in their mid thirties, after they retired from pro rugby. One of them even was in the roster for the 1999 RWC.
So I spoke a lot with these guys about their traditions (which are very close, even similar with the Samoans', they say they are cousins). And they definitely have different traditions from us western people, they don't see the world, the relationships, and a lot of other things like we do.
I will always remember this day, when we won a tough game, under the rain, in the cold, with big hits, close score. We won at the last minute, which qualified us to climb in the higher division (form the 7th division to the 6th division, you can imagine how small is the city). And those 2 big guys performed the TSipi Tau in front of the public to celebrate this difficult and important win. They were only 2, old and quite fat, they didn't do this to show how fit they were (they weren't). They only did this because they were proud of what the team did, they wanted to celebrate this tough victory in their own way. For them it was something to show this, and to show respect to those tough opponents.
So no, it's not a dance, it represents a lot of things for these people. It's as important as your national anthem (remember that national anthems are not a tradition for them, they have one because they followed a western tradition).
So respect that. Or don't get mad at people if they spit on your national anthem saying it's stupid, vain spectacle and vanity, as you say about the Siva Tau...

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Benny November 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Do you think the Irish feel foolish for singing their anthem with pashion every time they are beaten by NZ? I doubt it.

I can't imagine they were thinking about the game or the result, they were thinking of Fats and i thought it was a nice touch for one of their "elders" who played alongside him to lead it

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finedisregard November 13, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm not against national anthems, but that's all you get.

If the Irish made a big showing of singing menacingly Oro se do Bheatha Abhaile AFTER their anthem while making other teams just stand there, then yes, they should feel foolish. Especially if they lose.

Where does it stop. Should the Boks do a zulu dance? Should Canadians do a First Nations war dance?

Just play.

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stroudos November 14, 2013 11:43 am

Taking your point to its logical extreme, the English and Scottish, after watching the spectacle of the haka (or similar), should pull out muskets and shoot everyone in sight.

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tafkins November 12, 2013 9:58 pm

The commentators have all game to talk! Why cant they shut up for two minutes??!

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Reality November 12, 2013 10:34 pm

I don't know. They were quiet when the Samoans were actually dancing and shouting. They were just speaking during the bit at the beginning when nothing was happening. I missed the first few minutes of the match but I would have wanted to hear commentary rather than silence while they stood there doing nothing. It's bad enough that you have to go through the whole thing whenever New Zealand play and then listen to them whinge whenever somebody 'disrespects' the haka, but doing it for Samoa and whoever else as well? God, I just want to watch them play rugby.

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stop whining November 13, 2013 12:18 am

Hey reality its not about the ABs haka this is the Samoan siva tau showing their respect for the passing of one of their great players. All I hear in your whining is the undercurrent of racism. If you cant stand the haka, siva tau, sipi tau or cibi, is dont watch it, I mean are you chained to the tv and made to watch it, no. BTY its not the ABs that complain about disrespecting the haka, its all the non-kiwi fans who think people are disrespecting the haka. Hey we love it when the opposing team responds so maybe you should just get over it!

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DanKnapp November 13, 2013 6:36 am

'Undercurrent of racism' my arse. Don't be a prick.

His point about not particularly enjoying the haka has nothing to do with race. I disagree with him, I like it and I would like the commentators to be quiet during it (which they were once it had started), but saying that he is racist for saying that is moronic.

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DanKnapp November 13, 2013 6:38 am

And yes, I have incorrectly referred to it as the haka, but I am unable to edit my post now I've made it.

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5c worth November 13, 2013 7:58 am

If you actually read my comment before giving your 5c worth you would have realised it has nothing to do with talking through the commentary but his whining about having to put up with them before a match and how us kiwis moaning about people disrespecting it. So you can stop being the "prick" and learn to read the comment properly before putting your 5c worth in

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DanKnapp November 14, 2013 10:32 am

I am saying that I like the siva tau, haka etc, and I would like the commentators to be quiet through it.

I'm saying that I disagree with him, and I like having it.

My 5c is still that you are out of order to them make it into an issue of race. Not liking that part of the show has nothing to do with racial undercurrents. I just think it's out of order to call someone out as racist because they don't like sitting through them.

I agree with the rest of what you said. I don't think the majority of kiwis/pacific islanders etc do feel any 'disrespect'. That was a valid point, and I agreed with it. I just think to then reduce it back to race is disingenuous at best, and nasty at worst.

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Dan the man November 14, 2013 9:24 pm

Fair point you have made but I have just read reality''s reply and there is a definite undercurrent of racism with his opinion, right or wrong. When you disrespect someones cultural identity by belittling their cultural expression and insinuating that its all really a load of rubbish, that is bordering on being racist through ignorance, but then I think he is just pissed off with NZ because they seem unbeatable at the moment and when you cannot moan about their game, hey lets moan about their poxy cultural expression, remembering that the haka has been expressed for over 100 years in rugby. Lets say if ABs were shit he would probably be whinging about how their "haka" does bugger all for their game. Maybe sore loser ignorance breeds reality racism

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DanKnapp November 15, 2013 8:30 am

I don't understand how rugby fans like Reality can get all bothered about the haka or other posture dances, they're all part of the spectacle of watching the rugby. I've seen loads of comments about 'having to watch the haka' before and just don't bother responding, because I think it's a daft viewpoint. Like you said, turn it off or go and make a cup of tea.

It's more than I really object to people using accusations of racial prejudice as a trump card to make a point in arguments.

On a happier note, I've got a horrible feeling NZ are going to stuff us rotten on Saturday. I would imagine there will be a considerable point to prove. If we beat NZ, it'll be a huge win, but I can't quite see it happening yet.

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Benny November 13, 2013 12:25 pm

Yeah, I also get really bored during those one minutes of silence to respect the recently departed. I'd much rather hear the commentators talk total drivel.

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Reality November 13, 2013 1:03 pm

I know it's not the haka that the Samoans do; I never said it was. But it's a 'war' dance that the team do which is what the All Blacks do with the haka. If it was a minute of silence - and since all the Samoans were staring down their opposition it doesn't look very much like a simple minute of silence - then the commentators should have stayed quiet.

Then, regarding Kiwis moaning about disrespecting the haka, you're moaning about me now and calling me racist because I think the whole thing is stupid; Ma'a Nonu whined when the mean Welsh players didn't turn away before the All Blacks did; the French team was fined for overstepping a line during the haka in the world cup final. Yes, there's definitely too much whinging about disrespecting the haka.

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kadova November 13, 2013 6:39 pm

It's not the ABs who asked for France to be fined, it's an IRB rule.
And Steve Hansen requested publicly that IRB don't find the French team. But the IRB did not care what Hansen was saying.
And it was a very small fine, so that won't stop Les bleus from doing it again ;o)

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Reality November 14, 2013 6:27 pm

They used common sense in that instance, but the rule came from somewhere, and I somehow doubt it was some Australian that came up with the rule. Anyway, aside from the fact that I find it boring and irrelevant to rugby, I think it's unfair when, as the last action before the start of a match, one team has to line up and watch the other work themselves into a frenzy and make throat-cutting gestures and team A has to just stand there and accept that, and then has to be the first one to turn away, otherwise the Maori tradition (performed largely by Caucasians, Fijians, and Samoans) will have been disrespected. Just because they're the best team in the world doesn't mean they should get special privileges.

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Sore loser reality November 14, 2013 9:51 pm

The ABs really touch a sore loser nerve in you. What ignorant rubbish you espouse. Ignorance breeds contempt and it is highlighted in your pathetic argument against the haka. When you have to resort by saying the abs are made up of non-kiwis doing the haka, you are pathetic. They are all kiwis born and bred and brought up doing the haka (we embrace our cultural heritage Maybe if you expanded your small mind a little you would realise that just because somebody appears "caucasian" to you does not mean they do not have maori whakapapa in them and you wouldn't know the difference between a maori and pacific islander if you fell over one. May be you should travel and realise that the world is not made up of just black and white. In NZ colour is irrelevant but obviously not to you. You are a racist I uphold my original comment about your remarks

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Reality November 14, 2013 10:58 pm

I've never heard such crap in my life, but fine; I don't like the haka and think it gives an unfair advantage to New Zealand, therefore I'm a racist for some reason that I don't understand and I need to learn more to differentiate Maoris and 'Pacific Islanders' (I like how you bunch them all into one group while telling me that I should learn about cultural differences).

I should be more open-minded and accepting of other people's opinions, and have less sensitive nerves, just like you.

I don't really understand what Maori means now though. If to be Maori you just have to be from New Zealand and don't actually have to have any affiliation with the Maori people, then what's the difference between a Maori and a New Zealander? I'm sure my tiny, racist brain will never understand.

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DanKnapp November 15, 2013 8:38 am

This is nice. Now I feel like a dick for defending you originally.

Can the two of you just pipe down? Anyone who gets so worked up about the haka giving them an advantage needs to calm down. You don't think that watching the haka helps get professionals in the zone? If the haka or similar war dances provide such an outstanding advantage how come Samoa, Tonga and Fiji aren't always at the top of the tree? The ABs advantage comes from an exceptional style of game play, quality athletes, and good coaching.

At the same time, it is tiring to listen to you being called a racist just because you sound ignorant. But you do sound ignorant.

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ollie November 12, 2013 10:18 pm

Commentators ignorant on every level. It actually didn't sound like they knew who he was...

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Mahuta November 12, 2013 11:43 pm

I thought these guys were commentators? How they don't know who Brian Lima is, is disrespectful!! Typical northern hemisphere commentators.

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DanKnapp November 13, 2013 6:42 am

Yes, ignorant. Typical NH commentators, no.

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DaveW November 13, 2013 12:12 am

"in front of a packed Aviva Stadium"

Nah. 40,000 out of 50,000 tickets sold. It wasn't four fifths full though, or at least it didn't seem to be - and that's the impression from inside the stadium. There were lots of seats around us empty.

I didn't realise it was Lima at the time though. It still got the third biggest cheers of the day - behind O'Connell coming on and O'Driscoll going off.

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jimter10 November 13, 2013 1:31 am

Brian Lima is a legend, embarrassing that he wasn't recognised. A fitting tribute to a Samoan legend.

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dave November 13, 2013 1:53 am

Commentators are a disgrace here, won't shut up for two minutes and clearly have no idea that 1) it's Brian Lima and 2) Why he is leading it. Shocking knowledge of the game.

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Paddy November 13, 2013 2:05 am

This was the BBC NI coverage where quite often the commentary is poor. However, on RTE (RoI broadcaster) they did correctly identify Brian Lima and explain the circumstances. I don't think it is fair to tarnish all Northen hemisphere commentators with the same brush.

Aside from that, a great tribute to a man who will be missed.

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jaded forward November 13, 2013 3:22 am

"No emotion from O'driscoll". Of course not. Had he seen Lima suited up and ready to tickle some ribs (or realign some spines), there might have been a flicker of concern, but as long as the chiropractor is coaching (and Henry Tuilagi isn't around either) I'm sure O'driscoll figured that he wasn't facing anything that an ice bath and a massage wouldn't fix.

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themull November 13, 2013 10:44 am

Should've put up the clip with Irish commentary, who actually respected the whole thing by shutting up and actually realising who Brian Lima was..Really annoyed me to hear these guys talking nothing of importance during the Siva Tao rather than just shutting up and letting the people enjoy it...

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Rugbydump November 13, 2013 1:59 pm

It's now been added on page 2 of this post. They did a great job.

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stroudos November 14, 2013 11:58 am


What a shame you didn't have the RTE version first - could have saved a lot of silly nonsense on the comments!

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Colombes November 13, 2013 11:20 am

like always bbc fucked up everything...

after labelling "fat" a french tenniswoman during wimbledon, it just confirms that this tv group know very few about sport ans valors, in general

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Brandon November 13, 2013 12:07 pm

The RTE commentary was spot on - here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl7vm4w75QU

View Video

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Brandon November 13, 2013 12:09 pm

Oops - THIS is the official one, from the RTE Sport Youtube site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTqGGDLI1U4

View Video

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browner November 13, 2013 5:00 pm

seen one pre-match challenge .............. seen em all. yawn...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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browner November 13, 2013 5:02 pm

However, If they had done their challenge silently..........say in 'Mime' now that would have met my "respect for Fats" measuring stick

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Pedro Carvalho November 13, 2013 9:28 pm

Brian Lima, the shirtless gentleman.

...good name for a biography

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Canadian content November 13, 2013 10:46 pm

Great to see, hope this type of thing never leaves rugby, it's what makes it more than a game to most of us, a few of you aside, but a powerful expression of emotion, pride and passion.

I think the emotion BOD was feeling was happiness that Lima was not going to tackle him that day.

Well done to RTE and the Irish crowd, and to you naysayers as well, you make life so much more interesting.

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Dave November 15, 2013 1:50 pm

Loving the "CMON LEINSTER" shout from the crowd at the start!

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AJ_Capote November 22, 2013 10:19 am

Just seen the RTE version - so much better. Great respect and reverence from the commentators there.

Also, quick point - am I mistaken, or are microphones put on the pitch to amplify the Haka when NZ play? If that's the case it doesn't seem fair that the Samoan wardance wasn't miced up, although I might've missed the microphones off-camera.

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