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Sonny Bill Williams warned for big hit

Thursday, February 27, 2014

Jamie Mackintosh off the ball shoulder shot on Richie McCaw

Here's a quick video that includes a must see super slow-mo of a pretty nasty off the ball shot by Chiefs prop Jamie Mackintosh. The hit is on the indestructible man, Richie McCaw, who was left on the floor in a heap and must have been wondering how Mackintosh stayed on the field.

It didn't look like much at first but the excellent camera work and slow-mo replays show the shoulder making contact with first the chest, then McCaw's somewhat distorted face.

You can view more big shots featuring Mackintosh and McCaw in the Related Posts below

Posted by Rugbydump at 6:02 pm | View Comments (42)

Posted in Big Hits & Dirty Play

Viewing 42 comments

45678 February 27, 2014 9:26 pm

I personally don't even see a penalty here. The inside guy looked as if he was passing, McCaw is in the channel looking for the ball. All that doesn't happen is the pass. A split second later and it would have been man and ball

I've always had the opinion if you run in the channel with the appearance of receiving a pass you are fair game to be tackled. Maybe a slightly old school attitude, but too many dummy runners are getting away with taking defenders out at the moment

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DrG February 27, 2014 9:47 pm

I sort of agree, I'm not sure we'll be massively popular on here for the opinion (especially not with our Kiwi brethren) but you can't run any dummy line and then bitch about being tackled if it's convincing.

I get the argument against will be something like 'You can just run around taking everyone out, and claiming you thought they were going to receive the ball' but that is where referee's judgement has to come in I suppose.

I can see an epidemic of players trying to get penalties in the future unless common sense prevails. I saw it once I think last year or something when Mike Phillips purposely ran into a retreating player (who I believe was not being lazy and genuinely retreating) to claim the offside penalty, by law it's fair enough, but personally I think it contravenes good sportsmanship

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Joaquin February 27, 2014 10:40 pm

I too agree that if you are running a dummy line, it's not a penalty if you get tackled. But, the problem here is that it wasn't a tackle, it was a shoulder hit. Call me old fashioned, but charging with your shoulder isn't a tackle.

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Pipo February 28, 2014 12:41 am

Exactly, this was not a tackle, what did the 2 first commenter see? I don't know. I clearly see a shoulder hit with absolutely no attempt to wrap his arms around. Should have been a penalty.

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JMehrtens March 01, 2014 9:19 am

Your opinion doesn't matter.
The laws are pretty clear, your not allowed to tackle someone without the ball, dummy runner or not. (See law 7 & 10.4e)

Having said that, McCaw is just as much running into Mackintosh as vice versa.

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fastmongrel February 27, 2014 9:52 pm

He milked it a little bit but the headline "Off the ball shoulder shot" oh come on RD I have seen worse off the ball hits in the Boxing Day sales.

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Full Back February 28, 2014 7:27 am

he milked it??? Are you serious? He got straight back up as soon as he could. Have you ever taken one on the chin there fella? Lot's of rugby players have stayed down for less.

I think it was well reffed, good common sense for once.

I think big Mac was going in for a tackle and straightened up when the ball didn't come, didn't exactly "charge" him with his shoulder, just stopped his attempt at tackling. As hard as McCaw may be, if a guy like that went in to shoulder charge with any aggression he(McCaw) wouldn't have played on (in my opinion anyway)

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Badge February 28, 2014 2:28 pm

I think he meant the writer "milked it" a little. Which he didn't, it was a shoulder off the ball. It wasn't the end of days or anything though. I do love seeing old King Richie getting a bump or two here and there (bar injuries of course).

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Full Back February 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Good point badge, hadn't thought of the fact that he may have been referring to the writer

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Jon February 27, 2014 9:55 pm

I agree 100%. You've got to commit as a defender in a situation like that.
You're not doing your job otherwise.

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TLewis February 27, 2014 10:10 pm

Had to take the chance, albeit a little high and little use of the arms, but hey this isnt football!

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TotesMcGoates February 27, 2014 10:17 pm

I don't agree; McCaw was pretty flat footed and got smashed off the ball by the oncoming Mackintosh. I could see an argument for committing to the tackle if he was running at a gap with a full head of steam (in which case the attackers momentum takes him into the area where the defender would move to take up space).

You can't tackle someone just because they might potentially get the ball.

Well handled by the ref; quick word and a penalty.

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joe February 27, 2014 10:18 pm

rugby dump are clearly fans of mccaw...blowing the 'shoulder shot' (in which he never dropped his shoulder) out of proportion and not mentioning how much richie milked it

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DrG February 27, 2014 10:32 pm

Either that or they're being careful not to bring on the wrath of King Richie lovers... look what happened to Cooper, he was practically outlawed in NZ.

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Full Back February 28, 2014 7:30 am

I disagree completely on the milking aspect. There's no point complaining about bias and then losing all objectivity yourself. Kudos to the man, he got straight back up, shook it off and played on without any complaints.
Want to see milking? the smile on Cowens face says it all.

View Video

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joe February 28, 2014 11:43 am

completely different video in which nonu jumps into cowan. in this one mckintosh doesnt jump into him he at worst stands his ground then does in fairness give richie a shove but richie only goes over halfway and then finishes off the fall in dramatic fashion throwing his hands up in the air.

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DrG February 28, 2014 12:18 pm

Exactly, perhaps 'milked it' might not be the best choice of words, perhaps 'ham actor' or 'exaggerated fall' might be better - To avoid upsetting anyone.

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Full Back February 28, 2014 6:47 pm

No Joe, I wasn't comparing the impact, I was showing an example of "milking" a reaction

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Canadian content February 27, 2014 10:34 pm

1) This isn't league, you're not allowed to hit someone in the chest and ride up into their face, easily a penalty for that alone.

2) This is poor defence by Mackintosh, the ball goes nowhere near McCaw and if you think that's a good sell of a dummy, I've got some swampland in Florida you might be interested in.

3) Mackintosh could have easily pulled out of the tackle and in fact helped his teammate. Instead, he takes the opportunity to take a shot at a basically defenceless player, believe me I am no McCaw fan, who is not expecting to get hit at all. I agree they may have bumped each other, or he may have even shoved McCaw out of the way, which I would have been fine with. But once he lowered his shoulder into his chest, you knew he what his intent was.

Btw Joe, I'd like to see you take that hit from Mackintosh and get up and play on. Dude has gotta be at least 120 kilos.

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DrG February 27, 2014 10:38 pm

You're giving a hell of a lot of credit to Mackintosh, he is a prop you know...

As for the swampland.. I dunno, something doesn't seem right about buying US land off a Canadian...

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DrG February 28, 2014 12:19 pm

Oh and FYI I don't think Mackintosh hit McCaw in the chest and road up to the face, he hit McCaw in the chest and his face made minimal contact with Mackintosh due to his neck bending.. two different outcomes entirely.

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Canadian content March 01, 2014 2:05 am

I hope your not an optometrist DrG cuz mccaw gets some definite chin music there and he wasn't even leaning forward.

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DrG March 01, 2014 10:39 am

'Who said that? I can't see your comment!'

He wasn't 'leaning forward' but watch his head, it snaps forward... hence why his chin bounces off the shoulder..

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GHerman February 27, 2014 11:15 pm

That unfortunate McCaw-stuff aside - how about the poor winger being high-tackled two-and-a-half to three consecutive times before he finally has to give up the ball? Or do I miss it and there is something making this completely legal? Or even just a bit legal-ish?

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Hendrickpost February 28, 2014 3:01 am

And poor Bismarck Du Plessis getting a red card for his attempt..Call it what you want McCaw should be an actor, think he will do good in soccer!!

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Full Back February 28, 2014 7:32 am

bollox mate, no acting to be seen here at all

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DrG February 28, 2014 12:20 pm

Those arms flying in the air looked a bit unnecessary..

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Full Back February 28, 2014 6:48 pm

You're forgetting it's slow mo, look at it in real time and you'll see it's a fairly natural looking fall....well in my opinion anyway

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DrG March 01, 2014 1:03 am

Think we'll have to agree to disagree - I can still see; what is in my opinion, an over reaction.

But I do respect the fact that you don't think it is.

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Guy February 28, 2014 12:44 pm

Yeah well...except that Bismarck did not get a red but a yellow and another yellow later on.

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matt February 28, 2014 4:23 pm

McCaw had nothing to do with Du Plessis, what are you on about?

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Dummy February 28, 2014 12:22 pm

Have to don't agree with the first post.

McKintosh ran an aggressive defense line to cut the attack hence Mc Caw is behind the ball carrier when he got shoulder hit and he never run a dummy line.
So for me, that's a penalty for tackling a player without the ball.

Add to that shoulder hit / no grabing, it could have been a yellow.

Agree with GHerman, high attempt tackles on the winger could also have been penalised.

PS: For the record, I am not a real fan of McCaw

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Reality February 28, 2014 1:21 pm

Bah, not much in it. Sensationalist headline from Rugbydump. He gave him a bit of a shoulder into the chest and McCaw's head snapped forward and his chin hit off Mackintosh's shoulder. Mackintosh should be more careful but making it out that it's more than that is just silly.

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Colombes February 28, 2014 3:53 pm

Poor defence anticipation by McIntosh,
but sincerely, u can't really blame him on the action. His tackle intent became a reckless shoulder charge as soon as he saw the ball wasn't here.

Let's take ur 3 points on penalty and move on.

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matt February 28, 2014 4:27 pm

I don't see anything wrong with the tackle. He didn't have the ball, and that's an issue, but his tackle is low enough. The only reason there is contact with McCaw's head is because he wasn't ready for the tackle and his neck capitulated. It definitely is not a shoulder charge. We've had the 'wrapping' debate before, and he clearly has arms around both sides of McCaw, he's just pulled out of the tackle so doesn't drive through with the finish.
Great hit, poor timing (/deliberate) and well reffed.

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DrG February 28, 2014 6:46 pm

I'd agree with that statement there. I think it looks like a charge because he stopped the 'wrapping/grasping' as he realised there was no point.. there was no arm tucked in to hit with the point of the shoulder, the height was fine as you said.

I think a penalty is a fair outcome, however I'd be happy with no penalty because of the 'dummy catcher' thing.

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Full Back February 28, 2014 6:51 pm

How does that work for possible recipients of a skip pass?

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DrG February 28, 2014 11:43 pm

If you're trying to fool the opposition with a dummy line then you cannot possibly complain if one of them buys it.. and to be totally honest I think it would be detrimental to the game if everyone started 'playing' to those sorts of penalties - Run the most convincing line you can and get smashed then moan to the referee, get someone sent off, get your 3 point penalty etc..

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matt March 01, 2014 9:17 am

I think we had a very similar discussion on the video of Ben Tameifuna's big hit on George Smith in last years super 15 final. My opinion is that if you put yourself there to commit a defender to the tackle, then you've made your bed, don't complain if it hurts

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Full Back March 03, 2014 9:30 am

Well the thing is you're allowed to run whatever line you want as long as you don't shield the person holding the ball.
Defenders can't commit before they see the ball going to hand. You're saying it's fair game but the laws of the game state otherwise, you can't tackle a guy without the ball.
We already have defences playing on the fine lines between on and offside when rushing up, if it becomes acceptable to take out possible recipients of the ball then we can say goodbye to running rugby and sit back and watch the up and under game....I hope they keep pinging it and defenders can spend more time getting their timing right.

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DrG March 03, 2014 6:31 pm

I think instead of squabbling, can we all agree that it would be detrimental to the game and bad sportsmanship if you try and fool someone and get smashed because they fall for it, and then bitch and cry and want the penalty?

I get it, we don't want defenders tackling too early and using the newly invented law by DrG and Matt which states - 'if someone fools you into believing they're getting the ball you can smash them' - to play the old 'I was fooled' card. So my point is, inventing a law wouldn't really work - it is better to give referee's the freedom to use common sense so that players running dummy lines are not 'untouchable'.

But the fact still remains if you actually succeed in fooling someone, it is not very sporting to cry for a penalty when the buy it.

Anyway, I know this video doesn't show McCaw charging up yelling for the ball in a traditional dummy run, but in circumstances where players are running up, I think it would be fair game if you come from an onside position and hit them.

For the record, it looks to me, in this video that Mackintosh realised McCaw didn't have the ball and pulled out of the tackle part way through - which I would argue is fair enough.

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FatProp March 01, 2014 9:55 am

Yeah its a hard one really when does it become running into the defender and taking someone off the ball. I think this one is clearer than most that its an off the ball tackle, but in the crusaders next game (you'll see if they show highlights) against the blues crotty smashes into the defender and opens a gap for slades try. So I guess you can't complain about being tackled off the ball if on your set plays you're just running into defenders to create gaps.

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