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Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

I think there is a chicken and egg thing going on here Stroudos. I agree that Banahan doesn't seem to possess the natural back skill that Lomu has and perhaps never would have done. What I am suggesting though; much like 10stone10 often does, is that given the right environment and coaching style Banahan; and any other potential candidate, may very well have developed better a better skillset.

At a basic level Lomu and Banahan both possess two things that cannot be taught*:
1. Height and Weight
2. Speed

*these can of course be developed through education (not quite height...)

Then comes a rugby brain and then comes the difference between the two that is clearly evident.

Chicken and egg thing, you're saying Banahan was born a 2nd row and Lomu was born a wing. I'm saying that theoretically they were both born rugby players and coaching styles moulded them to what they are today.

For the record I'm not saying Lomu and Banahan are the same or ever would/could be. What I am trying (perhaps unsuccessfully) to say is that, if you stick solely on the so often used in UK style of training - forwards are forwards, backs are backs, then a rugby ball thrown around amongst friends is far more 'back orientated' (where can the second row put his 'only a forward' skills to use in a friendly egg throw about?). If however, Lomu grew up in an environment which apparently applies a more rounded training scheme, where a forward has as silky hands as the most gentlest refined backs, then an egg throw about would surely yield far more rounded players - hence my argument that Banahan was perhaps forced into a position more than he needed to be.

I do agree with what you said about the likes of Lawes etc, Banahan is sort of in Limbo..

3 Months, 5 Days ago

The Top 5 Nick 'Honey Badger' Cummins Moments

I suppose if you speculate and say that the Force has more internationally capped players, even IF they both clubs had the same amount of money, the Force would have to spread it out more evenly amongst it's player base, whereas if the Sparks only have Cummins and a couple other 'greats' they might be able to spread their cash a bit less evenly..

I heard somewhere regarding soccer that some players in the past had approached their manger/coach? asking him to help them dodge international duties because they did not want to - I don't know whether this was a monetary thing, a spotlight thing or what, but I think International duties for some people has less meaning than it does for others.

3 Months, 1 Week ago

The Top 5 Nick 'Honey Badger' Cummins Moments

Best of luck to Cummins. I sincerely hope he gets all the dosh he needs.

As someone with a dad who is/was suffering from prostate cancer - latest tests show no sign of cancer. I know what it is like for a son to go through this stuff and my thoughts are with his dad who no doubt is in a stressful position (to say the least).

Wishing you and your family all the best.

3 Months, 1 Week ago

The Top 5 Nick 'Honey Badger' Cummins Moments

Hopefully we can get some footage of him confusing the hell out the Jap interviewers...

3 Months, 1 Week ago

The Top 5 Moments from the 2001 Super Rugby Season

Certainly agree with your last sentence, I used to love demolishing anyone that did that in the past... now it's become a grey area.

As for the rest of your comments - sadly I think this is the way of life, you're looking back 20-30 years ago and saying "the game is not what it used to be".. I'm looking back 5-6 years ago and saying "the game is not what it used to be"... rucking laws specifically...

I think give it another 10 years and we'll both be sitting down wondering what the hell this game is we're seeing with you thinking it's far worse than I think it, but we'll both agree it's equally as odd...

Only to be told by some pimple covered 18 year old twit that it's progress... Actually, saying that, it'll be a full blown game of Sarcastaball by then...

http://southpark.cc.com/clips/k9a8o3/how-about-we-call-it-sarcastaball

3 Months, 1 Week ago

Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

28inch waist??? Are you kidding me?

Finding trousers for that man must be a bloody nightmare, I'm fairly meaty, not particularly chubby and I have a 36" waist! My legs are by no means Lomu-esque and I find some trousers are a bit 'gripping' around the thighs, so to get a fairly titchy waist with gargantuan sized legs must have been an expensive custom job...

..then again, "My trousers are good enough for Jonah Lomu" is one hell of an advertisement, so he probably got a fair few freebies..

3 Months, 1 Week ago

Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

Apologies for the misunderstanding, you wrote:
"I think trying to compare players similar in size to Lomu is a waste of time. It's like comparing cars, it's what under the hood that counts."

and I assumed it was in a sort of reply to me and a couple others above who mentioned Savea, Cuthbert, North, Banahan etc.. hence why I commented with a less than clear reply. What I was getting at is that the only way to truly understand how phenomenal Lomu was, is to look at the players of today of similar size (rather than just brilliant wingers in general as the majority are much much smaller - Williams etc..) and how they use that size and frankly I don't see anywhere near the power.

Of course as you mentioned, Lomu was ahead of the time by miles, he was a professional player of beyond todays size/skill/power, playing in the early days of professional rugby which was still predominantly 'average' sized blokes.

3 Months, 1 Week ago

Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

I see where you're coming from, but there is no point comparing 'great' Lomu with 'great' Shane Williams/Jason Robinson, or any other winger that is well under 6ft...

So today's wingers that are plus sizes are those listed above (probably missed a lot).. so I was trying to state that although there are plenty great wingers today, there are only a handful that could be in any way comparable based on size and weight...and even they're 'not comparable' with the likes of Lomu.

Just thought of another much closer comparison and that would be Alesana Tuilagi..

3 Months, 1 Week ago

Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

True that Bananaman started life in the second rows, but as is a bit of a common topic at the moment, English - UK - GB - NH? schooling tends to have a bit of a stereotypical thing going on - fat kid = prop, not quite as fat = hooker, bean poles = second rows, quick but not as quick as backs = flanker, biggest and strongest guy = 8 and so on..and those players do THOSE jobs..

Maybe if Banahan had been born in NZ (for instance) where rugby seems to be very focussed on a skill set level (I'm sure they also fit players to positions in school but obviously someone noticed with Lomu that he had the build of an 8 but the skills of a back) then he may have had more potential to develop his skills.

As far as I know, Banahan was still playing second row when he played for Jersey 1st XV, just attacked wiki and learned he was brought into Bath as a lock, so he has most probably been playing the "You're a second row, you hit the rucks, focus on the lineouts, try not to get the ball too often and stay out the way" rugby for many many years, whereas as I said, had someone recognised his skill set and ability from an early age; like with Lomu, you never know what he could have achieved at this stage in his career.

3 Months, 1 Week ago

Jonah Lomu wreaking havoc against Australia in 1995

..and according to google, Savea is shorter and lighter.

Not that I think they're comparable to even Savea or Lomu, but I just checked George North and Alex Cuthbert stats, and both of them are still lighter than Lomu, in fact the only player that I could think of searching that I thought might come close was Matt Banahan:

2.01m and 118kg - even he just matches Lomu weight and is taller - so kg per cm is less...

..and Banahan never really had the impact that Lomu had - whether that is as a result of everyone else on the pitch being bigger and stronger, not having a team that knows how to use a big guy on the wing, or he is just not as good - maybe a product of "English" (Jersey I know) rugby schooling... Maybe had he been in the SH he'd have shone..

3 Months, 1 Week ago

 
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