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Compilation of the unpunished Teboho Mohoje high tackles against Argentina

....This is where the game of old came out in all it's glory... you'd get a player the likes of Martin Johnson, Bakkies Botha, Jamie Cudmore etc - step up and throw one hell of a hook at Mohoje... all hell would break loose, chances are the 'enforcer' would get a yellow card, but Mohoje, if still standing, would be meandering off the field trying to look out of his one good eye and would know not to do it again...

Only problem with todays game is that it would end up with a red card, some horrendous ban and probably a police investigation into a supposed hate crime.....

3 Weeks, 4 Days ago

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

If you could find the game, you could watch it and find the minute and seconds that it happened and someone else would probably do the digging for you :)

3 Weeks, 4 Days ago

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

I don't know about that... I find that the NH based pundits are normally the ones that say things like "he was pretty lucky" or some other sort of non apology apology, I'm not asking Kirwan to out Franks and demand he be punished, but rather than doing a watered down sort of - it probably looks worse than it was but he was lucky not to be caught kind of 'shy' response, he actually goes on the offensive and calls out other world greats and actively denies there was any wrong doing in the eyes of the law....

I only saw a couple comments from unregistered folk on the other page about the incident whos eemed to somewhat fall into the Franks sympathisers or naysayers category, I wouldn't say that AB fans on a whole are arrogant or nasty, however my point what that there seems to be very little noise around the incident from anyone official - and rightly so I suppose the AB fans are staying fairly quiet on a whole about it...

Again, I personally don't see a lot of denial from kiwis about this incident, however NZ as a group would probably find themselves with a more supportive world wide community if someone 'top' came and condemned this incident as reckless at least...

3 Weeks, 4 Days ago

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

I think the main thing that gets people breakaway is the blatant amount of BS that was being spouted by those pundits up above...

Most fans opinions are either contrary to the pundits, or with the pundits, (all pundits and all fans around the world)... so when ones rugby team does something shitty and a pundit stands up and says "no big deal" the rest of the world looks at that and unless there are a lot of fans from the same nation who disagree with said pundit, everyone gets tarred with the same brush...

Also, who is breakaway? Who is any of us on here, perhaps your 'average joes'.... so in reality our opinions do not get heard, even when we collectively roar... especially against the likes of John Kirwan et al.....

So really, until the 'big guns' come out and even say "I know Franks, there was no way he was trying to gouge, but the law is the law, and it was probably a big reckless... even though Franks is not that kind of guy, he should have probably got a warning".... the rest of the world will see NZ as being completely one eyed....

3 Weeks, 4 Days ago

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

Nobody is being asked to assess a situation to determine whether a tricky law was twisted in a manner that allowed a ball to be put into a scrum which then lead to some sort of collapse followed by a quick tap followed by a potential forward pass which was semi intercepted but actually knocked forward by an opposition player but caught by the attacking team before it hit the ground, which then lead to a strange wrist lead handoff which was it a forearm or was it a hand, before the try was scored or not scored in the corner as it was placed before the line and on the line at the same time as the player did or did not have a toe in touch whilst the official did or didn't raise his flag at the same time the ball boy ran onto the pitch to collect a stray ball which turned out to be a testicle....

We're talking about a players hand on a players face... the video at the top of the page shows at the 21-22 second mark a hand in the face of an Aussie player... the left thumb in the left eye.... I don't think he was searching for an eye, but you don't have to be an armchair forensic analyser; fortunately I am one however, to see what you can see... there isn't much room for law interpretation here.

A gouge? No, not in the sense that it was an intentional effort... it was an accidental poke in the eye at worst (imo)... but based on the laws at hand and the current trend of banning anything that sneezes... it was ban worthy...

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

Thumb was very clearly in the eye for a split second, I believe Franks realised this and moved his thumb straight away, followed by a re positioning of his hand....

This to me shows zero intent to gouge, but 100% proof of a hand in the eye area.... needed some sort of acknowledgement to this incident via way of a warning or ban.... to simply dismiss it seems to set some form of "recklessness doesn't matter" precedent....

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago

Owen Franks somehow escapes punishment after fingers in Wallaby face

You may have a point....

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago

Owen Franks somehow escapes punishment after fingers in Wallaby face

In the perfect world Jamie, you'd be right. The problem is with this era of professional rugby, there is a constant need to stamp out 'grey areas' and try and tie up all lose ends which were never really taken advantage of. Professional players require professional coaches, this requires professional backing, professional money and as such a professional lawyer.... so IF we had a situation like this 10 years ago, the lawyer would have said "yes we can see a hand on his face, but can we definitely tell if there was gouging done? Have we got any medical reports, witness statements etc to uphold a gouging call? If not then my client has zero to answer for as he is a professional sportsman and finds gouging abhorrent and therefore he must be let off"... players don't want to be known as tattle tails, medical reports might not show up 'attempted gouging'...

So the safest way to stop all these grey areas is to make a point of punishing hands on faces - occasionally in the game we see a hand touch a face and then let go instantly, sure that's fine but it is in itself another grey area... but then with Franks, his hand was on the face for longer and more than once.... How long to we allow this?

If Franks genuinely didn't gouge then it seems fair he wasn't punished for gouging, however there were fingers in the eye area.... this is undeniable, and although it may seem harsh to ban someone for an accident, it happens a heck of a lot in rugby, and I suppose it is what we cry out for - consistency.... Franks not being banned is an inconsistency with eye ruling.

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago

Owen Franks somehow escapes punishment after fingers in Wallaby face

I'm really not liking the idea of jumping on the 'punish him' bandwagon, because although Hernandez didn't change direction or duck, the 'ball carrier' switched at the last second, leading to the 'tackler' having to adjust his position and make a split second tackle - albeit a hideously poor one.

That being said, your first sentence is a very interesting one. It's difficult to say if I wholeheartedly support it - things are relative and also, as the standard of tackling should increase with professionalism, we'd also expect the standard of ball carrying to increase.... which would then outweigh the standard of tackling... which suddenly would need to increase... which outweighs ball carrying...etc... so someone has to be the worst person on the pitch... However, his tackling technique was apparently piss poor most of the night... which isn't a good thing.

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago

Owen Franks somehow escapes punishment after fingers in Wallaby face

@Stan, not really sure how you can say "It has no point arguing with someone that is totally blind to others pov and has no interest in trying to understand what they are telling him." when clearly you're being blind to Foxtrots pov....

I agree with Foxtrot that there was no way that Mohoje intentionally tried to head butt Hernandez... however I do believe that his tackle was somewhat reckless.... and as previously mentioned I believe there were instances where players have been deemed reckless or at least called reckless by fans and pundits, for head on head clashes... whether that is worthy of a ban or anything else is not something I'd want to see in the game...

3 Weeks, 5 Days ago