I don't think there is a rule/law against jumping into a tackle, but it can be penalised under the catch-all foul play rule against doing anything contrary to the spirit of the game (or something along those lines).
I am in the same camp as you, with a bit of sympathy for a well-put argument that Payne could have been given a yellow.
I have been waiting for the first post-Payne Northern hemisphere high-profile "player tackled in the air" incident, fully expecting to see a straight red card given the citing commissioner's decision and reasoning. As an Ulsterman, to see Williams get a yellow makes me so angry!
Did Payne intend to take out Goode while in the air? No.
Was Payne reckless (i.e. forsee that his actions would result in particular consequences yet carry on regardless)? No. My opinion is that Payne had no idea Goode was even close to getting the ball. Maybe he thought Goode started from much deeper; maybe he thought Goode was much closer to the other side of the pitch. Who knows? But is not knowing where your opponents are and what they are doing recklessness? I would say no.
Payne was at most negligent in attempting to catch a high ball on the run and in doing so not considering (or checking to see) whether an opposing player would jump for the ball. And as far as I am aware, that is not a standard of behaviour that warrants a red card.
In addition, anyone who has posted above that once Payne saw Goode he should have either jumped to contest or pulled out of the contact is out of his mind. He didn’t see Goode until his face was about a yard from Goode's hip/backside, and to suggest he should have then jumped or avoided contact is madness.
On the white card suggestion, I'm not sure it would have helped here. Garces saw it multiple times on the big screen and took a good 4 or 5 minutes while Goode was being treated to come to his decision (conferring with his touch judge for most of that time). I don't think an extra 5 minutes would have made any difference!
The incident which bears the most similarity to this one is, in my opinion, the Habana collision with (or tackle on, depending on one's view) Percy Montgomery a few years back.
In that case, Steve Walsh gave a penalty asked for calm. This is going back a few years, so maybe he couldn’t use the TV replays to review it. Had he been able to do so, maybe he would have decided differently. But from his warning to the players, I think he had seen it very clearly. It was also very early in the game and in a final if I remember correctly. I am not suggesting that a referee should take into account the importance of the game or the stage of the game in which the incident occurs, but more often than not I think they do.
Another similar incident, but which in my opinion illustrates perfectly what the law is intended to prevent, is the following tackle on Peter O’Mahony in 2013.
Yet again, penalty but no further punishment. But to me this illustrates perfectly where the line should be drawn. I think a card was warranted here even if an argument could possibly be made that he was looking at the ball most of the time and couldn’t avoid making contact.
The consequence of the Payne/Goode incident (i.e. the injury to Goode) is for me what influenced the referee's decision.
The incident which bears the most similarity to this one is, in my opinion, the Habana collision with (or tackle on, depending on one's view) Percy Montgomery a few years back.
In that case, Steve Walsh gave a penalty asked for calm. This is going back a few years, so maybe he couldn’t use the TV replays to review it. Had he been able to do so, maybe he would have decided differently. But from his warning to the players, I think he had seen it very clearly. It was also very early in the game and in a final if I remember correctly. I am not suggesting that a referee should take into account the importance of the game or the stage of the game in which the incident occurs, but more often than not I think they do.
Another similar incident, but which in my opinion illustrates perfectly what the law is intended to prevent, is the following tackle on Peter O’Mahony in 2013.
Yet again, penalty but no further punishment. But to me this illustrates perfectly where the line should be drawn. I think a card was warranted here even if an argument could possibly be made that he was looking at the ball most of the time and couldn’t avoid making contact.
The consequence of the Payne/Goode incident (i.e. the injury to Goode) is for me what influenced the referee's decision.
10.4(i) - Tackling the jumper in the air.
A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play. Sanction: Penalty kick.
10.5 - Sanctions.
(a) Any player who infringes any part of the Foul Play Law must be admonished, or cautioned and temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes’ playing time, or sent-off.
Liam Williams and Robin Copeland face disciplinaries after double red card
I don't think there is a rule/law against jumping into a tackle, but it can be penalised under the catch-all foul play rule against doing anything contrary to the spirit of the game (or something along those lines).
12 Hours, 52 Minutes ago
Liam Williams and Robin Copeland face disciplinaries after double red card
I meant disciplinary hearing officer or whatever title they have.
1 Day, 7 Hours ago
Liam Williams and Robin Copeland face disciplinaries after double red card
I am in the same camp as you, with a bit of sympathy for a well-put argument that Payne could have been given a yellow.
I have been waiting for the first post-Payne Northern hemisphere high-profile "player tackled in the air" incident, fully expecting to see a straight red card given the citing commissioner's decision and reasoning. As an Ulsterman, to see Williams get a yellow makes me so angry!
1 Day, 7 Hours ago
Liam Williams and Robin Copeland face disciplinaries after double red card
On the Williams tackle, I take it the ref did not see the Ulster v Saracens game. Illustrates perfectly the double standards.
1 Day, 10 Hours ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
I see the incident as follows:
Did Payne intend to take out Goode while in the air? No.
Was Payne reckless (i.e. forsee that his actions would result in particular consequences yet carry on regardless)? No. My opinion is that Payne had no idea Goode was even close to getting the ball. Maybe he thought Goode started from much deeper; maybe he thought Goode was much closer to the other side of the pitch. Who knows? But is not knowing where your opponents are and what they are doing recklessness? I would say no.
Payne was at most negligent in attempting to catch a high ball on the run and in doing so not considering (or checking to see) whether an opposing player would jump for the ball. And as far as I am aware, that is not a standard of behaviour that warrants a red card.
In addition, anyone who has posted above that once Payne saw Goode he should have either jumped to contest or pulled out of the contact is out of his mind. He didn’t see Goode until his face was about a yard from Goode's hip/backside, and to suggest he should have then jumped or avoided contact is madness.
1 Week, 6 Days ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
On the white card suggestion, I'm not sure it would have helped here. Garces saw it multiple times on the big screen and took a good 4 or 5 minutes while Goode was being treated to come to his decision (conferring with his touch judge for most of that time). I don't think an extra 5 minutes would have made any difference!
1 Week, 6 Days ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
Like the time Cueto jumped to avoid getting smashed by Tulagi and ended up kicking off a bit of handbags!
2 Weeks, 8 Hours ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
The incident which bears the most similarity to this one is, in my opinion, the Habana collision with (or tackle on, depending on one's view) Percy Montgomery a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q0nl4gnUn4
In that case, Steve Walsh gave a penalty asked for calm. This is going back a few years, so maybe he couldn’t use the TV replays to review it. Had he been able to do so, maybe he would have decided differently. But from his warning to the players, I think he had seen it very clearly. It was also very early in the game and in a final if I remember correctly. I am not suggesting that a referee should take into account the importance of the game or the stage of the game in which the incident occurs, but more often than not I think they do.
Another similar incident, but which in my opinion illustrates perfectly what the law is intended to prevent, is the following tackle on Peter O’Mahony in 2013.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYHrZIcvqz8
Yet again, penalty but no further punishment. But to me this illustrates perfectly where the line should be drawn. I think a card was warranted here even if an argument could possibly be made that he was looking at the ball most of the time and couldn’t avoid making contact.
The consequence of the Payne/Goode incident (i.e. the injury to Goode) is for me what influenced the referee's decision.
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2 Weeks, 8 Hours ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
The incident which bears the most similarity to this one is, in my opinion, the Habana collision with (or tackle on, depending on one's view) Percy Montgomery a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q0nl4gnUn4
In that case, Steve Walsh gave a penalty asked for calm. This is going back a few years, so maybe he couldn’t use the TV replays to review it. Had he been able to do so, maybe he would have decided differently. But from his warning to the players, I think he had seen it very clearly. It was also very early in the game and in a final if I remember correctly. I am not suggesting that a referee should take into account the importance of the game or the stage of the game in which the incident occurs, but more often than not I think they do.
Another similar incident, but which in my opinion illustrates perfectly what the law is intended to prevent, is the following tackle on Peter O’Mahony in 2013.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYHrZIcvqz8
Yet again, penalty but no further punishment. But to me this illustrates perfectly where the line should be drawn. I think a card was warranted here even if an argument could possibly be made that he was looking at the ball most of the time and couldn’t avoid making contact.
The consequence of the Payne/Goode incident (i.e. the injury to Goode) is for me what influenced the referee's decision.
View Videos
2 Weeks, 8 Hours ago
Jared Payne banned for two weeks after red card challenge on Alex Goode
10.4(i) - Tackling the jumper in the air.
A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play. Sanction: Penalty kick.
10.5 - Sanctions.
(a) Any player who infringes any part of the Foul Play Law must be admonished, or cautioned and temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes’ playing time, or sent-off.
2 Weeks, 16 Hours ago