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Tuesday Apr 23, 2013

Brian O'Driscoll dumped off the ball by Mauro Bergamasco

Brian O'Driscoll dumped off the ball by Mauro Bergamasco
47
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Leinster are waiting to hear if Zebre’s Mauro Bergamasco will be cited following an off the ball tackle on Brian O’Driscoll during the RaboDirect PRO12 match at the weekend. So near to the Lions tour, fans will be pleased to note that he wasn’t injured. 

There have been vocal calls for a citing though, as the Leinster star was tackled not only without the ball, but lifted and dumped down in a way that could have caused some damage.

It appeared as though Bergamasco thought he had read an inside switch, but you can see he was looking at O’Driscoll – who didn’t have the ball – and went through with the heavy tackle anyway.

It went unnoticed and unpunished at the time, despite the centre being clearly incensed. A shoulder injury ahead of the Lions tour, especially in this manner, would have been cruel irony.

The PRO12 Independant Citing Commisioner has 50 hours from the start of the match to make a decision on whether Bergamasco should be cited. That runs to 4:30pm today. 

Coach Joe Schmidt was relieved to leave Italy without any injuries, after Isa Nacewa was also on the receiving end of a questionable tackle. He wasn’t overly concerned at the time though.

“I think there were a couple of things that might get looked at. They were both happy to continue,” said Schmidt. “Drico hasn’t played a lot in the last 10 weeks and Isa didn’t play over the Six Nations at all. They were pretty keen to get game time under their belts. So, we left them on.”

Leinster won the game 41-22, with O’Driscoll setting up a try and playing well throughout. 

Do you think Bergamasco should be cited for this, or was he just overzealous?

*Wednesday 24 April update: Bergamasco was not cited.

47 Comments

  •  harry_mcmahon
    harry_mcmahon

    Wow, Bokfan, you are sooo cool. Can I be your mate??? Tell me again how tough you are after smashing someone's face in... I just want to hang around with you... You cock jockey!

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    Blah blah, whatever. Best thing about this video is the timing of the ref's comments on the replay, as BOD goes up in the air in slow-motion at 0:14 - he's off his feet, he's off his feet! Is this coincidence or nice editing by Mr Dump?

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    Oh God. @RD, you need to introduce a "dislike" button for this type of hysterical hyperbole.

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    Exactly. Most sensible comment so far.

    Reply
  •  totesmcgoates
    totesmcgoates

    Aha, touche.

    Reply
  •  hedderball
    hedderball

    Did you have to go on a course to learn how to talk such a load of complete arse or did it come naturally. I suppose when O'Driscoll absolutely minced Roussow in the 2nd Lions Test in Pretoria he was being a fairy?

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    @Full back this now comes down to either interpretation or some clarification which may be written in the laws read on: What is defined as a "body"? Is that a Torso? or is it an entire person. I'd personally call the "BODY" the Torso, I'd then call the solar plexus about mid "body", therefore above the solar plexus would be classed as "upper body"... So landing horizontally on his back would not (in my eyes) constitute the "upper body"... landing with your shoulders on the ground whilst your lower back was in the air would constitute the upper body. Anyway, I'd be somewhat happy for my interpretation to be altered with evidence, but that is what I meant..

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    It was of course a tad over the top from Bergatobasco, but I cannot sit here and state that I have never made a "committed 'late' tackle" on a player who has passed on the ball... I can't recall ever falling for a dummy runner.. not in this horrendous fashion though lol..

    Reply
  •  gerrymentle
    gerrymentle

    Totally correct. You'll see refs give players a lot more time executing a tackle on a player making a kick than a player without the ball. I think once a ref believes a tackler is truly committed and the tackle isn't illegal they'll let it go whereas O'Driscoll didn't even get near that ball and Bergamasco thumped him. If Bergamasco got duped by the dummy run that's his problem and to follow through with tackle on a player who's not in possession of the ball then it's a penalty, pure and simple, if the tackle was a tip tackle which it wasn't he would have been cited. Ref missed it so Bergamasco got away with what was without doubt a piece of intimidating play which is all part of rugby. O'Driscoll had a hissy fit because he nearly wet his pants thinking 2005 again, shoulder could've gone and no Lions tour which will be his Swansong.

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  • No his back is clearly not part of his upper body....oh wait...

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  • If it's not stopped then we'll end up with something similar to NFL where you have blockers.

    Reply

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  • It's called a dummy line...dumpy line makes no sense on any level...if if he did get dumped :D

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    I probably agree, but when was the last time you hear of a 7 playing fair?

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Thank you for the law browner, I hadn't realised the game had turned that soft... BOD landed horizontally on his back so I wouldn't call that "upper body" personally... Apparently neither would the citing commissioner...

    Reply
  •  browner
    browner

    check again... 10.4 (j) Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play. Law says lifted + upper body = dangerous Modernise DrG.

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  • Off the ball, if micro reads it wrong, that's his fault, so it's a penalty. I'd also say it was a very aggressive tackle with intent to injure, so I'd give it a yellow. No one without the ball should get unceremoniously dumped like that. Otherwise this is wrestling.

    Reply
  •  totesmcgoates
    totesmcgoates

    Penalty kick. Nothing more. On the dummy runner argument, am I a cynic for suggesting that Bergamasco probably had a fair idea that BOD didn't have the ball? Maybe a body check would have been more appropriate than a full blown dump tackle.

    Reply

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  • I've watched it several times and it is clear to me that Bergamasco tries to 'tip' BO'D. He didn't go past 180 simply because he got angled slightly (to the viewers left) which insured that some of the upward momentum was transferred into horizontal momentum. Could have been extremely dangerous. I would hope he gets cited as it was reckless and the intent was there. I watched the match and Berg was getting into several clashes with the Leinster team throughout the match. 3 weeks imo.

    Reply
  •  conman
    conman

    I agree #10, although it's borderline so a yellow more than a red for me based on the tackle. What turns it into a red though is how late and unnecessary it is. This whole dummy runner excuse is nonsense, he had plenty of time to see BOD didn't get the ball but he set himself, lifted him up and drove through the tackle to knock him over. Completley unnecessary and potentially dangerous, therefore, he deserves a ban. It's a cheap shot basically.

    Reply
  •  benny
    benny

    He could have died!

    Reply
  •  dema
    dema

    Taking out dummy runners is what they do in American football, not rugby union.

    Reply

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  • I'd buy Bergamasco's excuse that he was committed to the tackle after the dummy switch by BOD. I also don't think BOD ever got taken past 90, let alone fell beyond 90. It's close because one second later or one degree further and that could have been bad, but I don't think it's worth a ban. Maybe worth a citing, but I'm hoping the commissioner sees sense at let's this one go

    Reply
  •  cheyanqui
    cheyanqui

    I ran my IRB Excel model, and got the following: IF: NZL>IRE, then WEEKS=0 IF: ITA

    Reply
  •  colombes
    colombes

    A penalty for the off-the-ball tackle. Nothing else, as BOD falls on his back Everything else is just trolling

    Reply
  •  jungleboogy
    jungleboogy

    K so man up dump tackles should be brought back, it was one of the parts that made me fall in love with this sport. But the late hit should be a called upon definitely

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    I'm no expert on the law, but is it that you have to have total control if you LIFT a player, or only if you take him passed the horizontal... Call me old fashioned in my early 20's but this type of tackle has always been deemed as a successful "dump tackle" and was never in the past, frowned upon.

    Reply
  •  danknapp
    danknapp

    Whoops, for some reason I clicked on the wrong post to reply to. Sorry!

    Reply
  •  danknapp
    danknapp

    THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A DUMMY RUN! "Oh, that run looked really convincing, so I had to tackle him." Nonsense. You tackle players with the ball. If a team runs a lot of good lines to trick you, well done them. The tackle would have been fine if BOD had the ball. He didn't. Penalty, nothing more, and only then for tackling a dummy runner. If he'd hit the dummy runner because he'd lined him up for a potential tackle, then couldn't get out the way, then fine, but that isn't what happened. Playing on the edge, nothing to write home about or get cited over, but still against the laws and therefore a penalty.

    Reply
  •  goodnumber10
    goodnumber10

    you say he doesn't come through the horizontal and he controls the descent of BOD but neither are true... legs pass the horizontal and BM has no control over either of them as both his feet leave the ground.. It's a dangerous tackle...

    Reply
  •  goodnumber10
    goodnumber10

    the tackle wasn't fine... he lifted the man and had no control over how they came down. Bergamasco is off his feet as they come down, he has no control - it's a dangerous tackle.

    Reply
  •  goodnumber10
    goodnumber10

    through the horizontal, no control over the man coming down, off the ball. Citing please...

    Reply
  •  goodnumber10
    goodnumber10

    wow! you sound like a lovely person, just the type this game need. :/

    Reply
  •  matt
    matt

    I think even a yellow card would be viewed as deliberately making a point, as really a penalty there is 3 points, and that is plenty of punishment for a player who has done something idiotic.

    Reply
  •  matt
    matt

    I just did not like the idea of saying you have to tackle dummy runners, as if there is nothing between letting everyone run through and tackling anybody who looks ready to take the ball. As annoying as it is that this tackle has been blown so out of proportion (would never happen with any other player at any other time of year) I do think that Bergamasco had plenty of time to see that BOD didn't have the ball, so if he had been set there and BOD ran into him, Bergamasco pushed back so as not to be flattened, and then they went there own ways there would be no complaining, but I think he has done far more than is necessary to simply cover a dummy runner

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    But automatic red for what? A technically perfect dump tackle is not illegal and that was technically perfect (minus the ball) and an off the ball tackle is not red card worthy, last time I checked anyway... :/

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    I think what he means is you cannot always just assume the guy you are lining up is a "dummy runner" and give him a bit of a cuddle, if he turns out not to be then he'll be going full speed to flatten you... So in some ways be as ready as you can to flatten the guy (as you would ANYONE running down your channel; well at least try too...) and be almost ready to pull out if you read the dummy... I think it's definitely a shady area in the laws and difficult to police unless you take a black and white "off the ball" stance with it...

    Reply
  •  welshhero
    welshhero

    I agree that you cant just take men of the ball, that would be silly. But you have the likes of Leinster running very good lines in twos and threes and well timed flat, short balls then you cant let them through. If BOD had been further away from the ball carrier then i would agree, but one offload and he is through, you have to defend the channels. Most players would have just dropped the shoulder on BOD which would probably be worse.

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Nothing to it, no citing, no card, penalty at most. I'm sorry but running a dummy line is done to "fool" the opposition, if you get clattered then you can take comfort that your dummy line was very convincing. The other reason we run lines like that is to ofcourse draw away the opposition and create a gap, NOT to hope that if we DO fool them and get tackles then we get a penalty.... If he'd had the ball it would have been a fine tackle, he didn't, so penalty at most. I'd be tempted to go so far as to say no punishment at all considering the "aggravating factors" of BOD running a convincing dummy line... But probably a penalty is the safer option to stop people getting slaughtered by dummy passes/lines etc...

    Reply
  •  matt
    matt

    This is a stupid thing to say, 'you have to take out dummy runners'? No you have to be in position to tackle them, thats not the same as actually tackling them. If you were allowed to do this then defending would be much easier, as you'd just take down each attacker as they got into position, ball or not.

    Reply
  •  matt
    matt

    I'm with you two, the tackle looked fine to me, it was a dump tackle, not friendly, but not illegal either (yet). The fact that it was off the ball is not good, but I hardly think it warrants a citing, the ref and touch judges should be the ones in trouble, how do 3 professionals miss a tackle of that size away from the ball? I know Berg has a bad reputation, but I think he did well not to react to BOD's reaction, there are a lot of players who would have taken that chance to try and earn a yellow for the oppos talisman.

    Reply
  •  cambridgeshirekid
    cambridgeshirekid

    It's actually illegal to take people off the ball welsh hero. Give'em a bit of a wrap but no need to smash a dummy runner.

    Reply
  •  guy
    guy

    And by rules I meant laws.

    Reply
  •  guy
    guy

    Agree with Howard: I don't see much wrong with the tackle itself although it's close to the edge of the rules. It was off the ball, don't know what the punishment should be for that. Not a citing in my humble opinion.

    Reply
  •  welshhero
    welshhero

    Fantastic tackle, not even borderline, he kept control of BOD and never went beyond horizontal, seriously lads if you dont want to see this type of tackling go and watch football and stop spoiling rugby union. In the modern game you have to take out dummy runners, the ball could have easily gone to BOD and if BERGAMASCO had let him through we would all be laughing at him. A penalty would have been harsh.

    Reply
  •  howardtheduck
    howardtheduck

    It was of the ball, so it should have been a penalty for that (Bergamasco might have the mitigating factor that BOD was a dummy run on that play). Tacklewise I do not see anything wrong with that. It does not go "beyond the horizontal" (BOD lands flat on his back), the tackler does not let go and brings him to ground. BOD takes exception, so he obviously isn't hurt (at least not physically). I think his lashing out is due to the fact that their personal score is now 2-0 in Mauro's favor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjLEQEhJmg Hhehehehehehe.

    Reply
  •  macmurchu
    macmurchu

    Bullshit! When have you ever seen a player on the receiving end of that not react? And they were hardly punches, handbags at best

    Reply

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  • I wouldn't say red, if he had the ball it was borderline. Yellow card for off the ball tackle.

    Reply

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Brian O'Driscoll dumped off the ball by Mauro Bergamasco | RugbyDump - Rugby News & Videos