Tuesday Sep 13, 2011

England's Courtney Lawes suspended for two weeks

England's Courtney Lawes suspended for two weeks
52
Comments

England will be without lock Courtney Lawes for their next two Pool B games in the Rugby World Cup after he was cited and subsequently suspended for two weeks after he was found guilty of kneeing Argentina’s Mario Ledesma.

Lawes will miss out on England’s next two matches against, against Georgia and Romania respectively, but will be available for their crunch meeting with Scotland. His offence was found to be in the lower end, which is usually a three week punishment, but his previous clean record and the remorse he showed meant that it was lowered to just the two weeks off.

Hooker Steve Thompson admitted that the England came were relieved that he will be available for the Scotland match, while coach Martin Johnson has said that he felt Lawes was simply trying to get across to make a try saving tackle.

“They obviously saw it a bit differently, but the good thing for us squad-wise is we have some very good players who can come in,” said Johnson.

The incident occured just a minute after Lawes made a huge hit on center Gonzalo Tiesi, which resulted in him being rules out of the rest of the tournament with knee ligament damage.

52 Comments

  •  elcardana
    elcardana

    Son of a bitch

    Reply
  •  bokkexv
    bokkexv

    If this had been a Springbok flying into an England player this board would be awash with talk of thuggery this and gentleman's game that... quit your crying, take the suspension move and move on. As for the black jerseys, disrespectful idea, gimpy looking execution and the numbers didn't even stay on. Poor form all round.

    Reply
  •  flyingpepper
    flyingpepper

    Agree with HeavyHooker above it seems more that he hits into his body no the head. I wonder though if he back out of jumping the player as there is a camera man in the way. Though that would have made a great youtube video

    Reply
  •  heavyhooker
    heavyhooker

    No matter how many times I watch this hit from the different angles i cannot see the knee contact with the head. I see Lawes hit him with his privates; I see him roll over; I even see him try and spread his legs prior to the hit. I do not see intent, carelessness, or knee contact. Lawes was at a full tilt run and I defy anyone, professional or not, to pull up out of a tackles with that sort of speed on after initial committment. Bad call

    Reply
  •  japan
    japan

    I was at the recent Ireland versus England match and was close to Lawes for the first half. Make no mistake about it this is a player who is entirely focussed on hurting other players. I agree with the comments comparing him with Armitage whos's another dirty palyer. The issue form England is that they are both very talented - its possiblem that England could be far better rugby team if they focussed on playing good rugby like in the Will Carling and Jeremy Guscott era.

    Reply
  •  ronan
    ronan

    lawes your card is marked you,ll get yours..... scum.....

    Reply
  •  moddeur
    moddeur

    Well France2 does have some good experience in rugby commentating, they show the VI nations, some HC cup matches, and their pal channel France4 shows some of the Under20s games etc. But TF1 commentators are to rugby commentators what coca-cola is to champagne ... In fact there is now a brand new Facebook page called "Shut the f*** up Christian JeanPierre" (in French, I'm just translating here, but you get the point) and it's nearly got 500 "likes" already.

    Reply
  •  medicaluke
    medicaluke

    Had Ledesma truly been knocked out then IRB rules stipulate he must be taken off the pitch. Either he was milking it (as suggested further down) or it is extreme negligence by the Argentine medics and they should be censured by the IRB. I think the first tbh

    Reply
  •  buzzkillington
    buzzkillington

    Strange that Will Greenwood cannot spell Courtney. Nothing against the man but I'd have expected him to know the spellings of England players, or at least double check with Google.

    Reply
  •  hendogo
    hendogo

    I agree with full back very easily avoidable.

    Reply

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  • The second one was late, unnecessary and easily avoidable. He could have just hopped over the guy. if you look at it again, he almost changed direction to make sure he got his knee in there. I'm amazed that there's so much doubt about the malice or intent, and frankly don't see where the surprise is that the Argies were pissed. Not sure what cocky has to do with either side in this case.

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  • I think there's a difference between catching someone as your getting up and sliding into them at pace.

    Reply

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  • he could have simply jumped over him in my opinion, would have taken less effort

    Reply

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  • I agree with the late hit on Tiesi, he was committed and that can be expected at this level. The knee on Ledesma however, had to be deliberate, it would have taken far less effort to avoid him. He clearly went out of his way to get his knees in there and deserves at least 2 weeks in my opinion. Someone of that weight and size should appreciate the damage he could do if he caught the guy on his temple or hit his neck the wrong way. It's the last advertisement that rugby needs. If you want to see good clean physical, look at guys like Todd Clever. As for Lawes' record, he's still quite new on the circuit, his making his name now, and seems to be going the wrong way about it.

    Reply
  •  mpc-33
    mpc-33

    Mate, i can only agree with you. Christian Jean-Pierre is the douchebag's king. He was just stupid on the first game with the ABs. During France vs Japan, he pissed me off so much that i was shouting all alone against him in front of my TV. I haven't been able to enjoy the first half thanks to his services (and with the help of Thierry Lacroix). During the Welsh vs South Africa Game, he reached a turning point... He hasn't been able to pronounce "Faletau" during the whole game. He called him Fatelau or Taufalea... But it wasn't the worst... I don't know if you have noticed : When F.Steyn caught the ball downfield, he has announced "Du Plessis" several times... I didn't undestand until some point, cause its sooo damned stupid. The replacing hooker, with the number 16 (on the game sheet) was Bismark Du Plessis. He thought he saw 16 instead of 15 on Steyn's jersey and announced that a hooker was going on at fullback, throwing up-and-under and etc ! And it never shocked him. At this point, I turned the sound off and put RMC radio. Fortunatly, sound and image were almost synchronised. I am soooo happy now i know i don't have to hear him again. Honestly, the second commentator team on France 2 did a perfect job during Namibia vs Fidji, in a game with many unknown players. And TF1 made a mess with their "best" commentators in game between major nations foul of superstars.

    Reply
  •  juggernauter
    juggernauter

    The first tackle on Tiesi was a good, solid hit. Arms were used, he commited before Tiesi kicked the ball (he could have faked the kick and kept running, so there's nothing wrong with the early commitment). The second one, I see it as a way to make sure Ledesma was in touch, and he dropped the knee in order to slide through tje grass and get to him. No malice whatsoever! You'd be amazed at how the argentinean commentators reacted. Raul Taquini asked for a red card straight away, and the two others spoke of the "malice" that is, as they said "a big characteristic of Lawes' way of playing". Patricio Albacete, the lock, said prior to the game that the english were "cocky over confident players". Bullsh*t, if you ask me. I surely hope the Pumas get rocked by Romania and Geoargia, and lose to the Scots. I can't stand their c*ckiness any more.

    Reply
  •  colombes
    colombes

    2 weeks ban is perfectly adequat for me. It was not malicious, just dangerous and reckless from Lawes. the England staff could be happy with it and they didn't complain too much as the matchs against romania and georgia won't be deadly difficult.

    Reply
  •  blackened
    blackened

    I speak has someone who hates English rugby more than Beelzebub himself, but that citing was a crock. Nothing wrong with either tackle.

    Reply

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  • Plus he wasnt knocked out I think, since you can see him move his head and left hand.

    Reply

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  • Ledesma was ****ing milking it!! How can anyone else not see this, seriously? He was buying time for Argentina to regroup. I admit he was probably dazed at the start but not for a whole minute or two.

    Reply
  •  moddeur
    moddeur

    You haven't heard Christian Jeanpierre, the French commentator on the "TF1" channel, a channel not normally known for showing rugby matches (but rather known for what its director, Patrick Le Lay, once said: "our job is to make people's brains available so that they can buy Coca-Cola"). Anyhow so this commentator, Christian Jeanpierre, is normally a football commentator. Well during South Africa - Wales, he kept on saying "they are now at the 30m mark ...". He also kept on confusing Charteris and Alun Wyn Jones. He then said that a line-out cannot be played quickly if the ball touches an advertising panel. He also said that he met the All-Blacks and didn't find them physically impressive. What a douchebag ...

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  • Also, I'm not sure if it was negligent by the medics or just totally badass by Ledesma (I'm leaning towards the latter, since he'll do his best to stay on the pitch no matter what), but he got up after being knocked out cold, and when he came to, he was right in the middle of a lineout and a maul.

    Reply
  •  moddeur
    moddeur

    The first tackle is a bit late, but since Lawes only has half a brain (when on the field) he probably had no clue whatsoever that Tiesi would pass the ball before getting hit. The knee on Ledesma is totally reckless for sure, but who knows if it's intentional. 2 matches seems ok but this would tend to put the Quade Cooper case in the spotlight.

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  • As a few people have pointed out...it doesn't really matter that much. So he misses a pair of matches that should go alright for England... It's a bit of a silly "lesson", but the IRB is not above theatrics just to get players' attentions. Suspend a guy for two weeks for what was a borderline reckless tackle (needless, yes, but not really "malicious"), and they probably feel like they're doing something to prevent it from happening again. They're not, because it will happen regardless...but, Lawes shouldn't care all that much, since he'll be back in it for Scotland...and it's not like he won't be at training sessions, right? It's not like they've sent him back to England to think about what he's done in a dark corner somewhere...

    Reply

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  • No, but Cooper was cited for that. You're right in that the rulings weren't consistent, but nothing ever is. Maybe if McCaw was knocked out, it would've turned out differently...I'm not sure.

    Reply

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  • Which is why I'd be more than happy to never see the site integrate facebook or twitter commenting. (...though, I'm not the site's owner, and ya can't blame someone for just trying to pay the bills...)

    Reply
  •  redyeti
    redyeti

    http://willgreenwood.co.uk/willslatest/?p=563

    Reply
  •  medicaluke
    medicaluke

    I have to agree that there is consistency needed. This seemed to only get a citing because Ledesma got knocked out. I think it was reckless but I think Lawes' only concern was to stop a try. Probably could have been avoided. 2 weeks does seem a bit harsh. It definitely wasn't the worse unpenalised challenge of the weekend. Think the citing commissioner needs to watch his videos again. Fortunately, the games to be missed are Romania and Georgia, so nothing major. Nice to know I'm not the only one annoyed by ITV's commentators. Didn't think it could get any worse than Brian Moore or Stuart Barnes, but ITV have succeeded!

    Reply
  •  xenophile
    xenophile

    Well it was a citing, and it has been ruled as a suspension as noted above. Your response seems to suggest that if a similar incident happened between two lesser teams, that maybe no one would care. I disagree strongly. As any game on this stage (international, nevermind the RWC) between any opponents is important, and any actions such as Lawes should be stamped out of the game. Regardless of whether the opponent was knocked out or not, Lawes' actions were reckless, dangerous and could have seriously injured the opponent. I'm all for hard, assertive and physical rugby, but I'm also a firm believer that Lawes crossed the fine line of physical and dangerous.

    Reply
  •  redyeti
    redyeti

    I'm so glad the majority of Facebook commentators don't seem to have discovered this comments section, jesus...

    Reply
  •  ruckinghell
    ruckinghell

    Brains where his b***s are if he can't remember that :)

    Reply

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  • Not sure if he was deliberately leading with his knees though, I'm only a small un' myself so can only surmise that it is harder for the big un's to get down and slide/ tackle an opponent into touch. Perhaps it's a malaise of the modern game that so many players now slide into opponents when they are in the process of crossing or attempting to cross the try line that awkward looking tackles are made.

    Reply
  •  aberuggerman
    aberuggerman

    What's he meant to do? Not lead with his knees!

    Reply

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  • Thoroughly agreed. Phil Vickery makes Brian Moore seem eloquent. I always tune the radio or internet to an alternative commentary with less English bias.

    Reply
  •  ropeycentre
    ropeycentre

    Excellent name drop Red Yeti!

    Reply
  •  redyeti
    redyeti

    Oh and if it means anything, my sister spoke to Courtney on Facebook yesterday, and he said he barely remembered it, and certainly did not deliberately go in with a knee. Bakkies Botha he is not

    Reply
  •  redyeti
    redyeti

    Good to see sensible comments on here for once, except for the Armitage comparison. Lawes was hardly going to gently trot up to Ledesma as he steamrollered towards the tryline was he? Lawes went in hard and committed, and was unfortunate as Ledesma was tackled by another player and fell, meaning Lawes had to try to get almost to floor level to make the hit. It was his crotch and not his knee anywaey...

    Reply
  •  wow-jiffy-lube
    wow-jiffy-lube

    The tackle on Tiesi had nothing to do with the citing, it was just shown as a big hit. The second incident though was reckless. Obviously Lawes was trying to ensure that Ledesma was put in touch but the manner in which he did so, leading with the knees with his upper body leaning backwards, can have only one (dangerous) outcome. I don't think it was malicious, just careless. I think two weeks is fair as, as was pointed out, the usual penalty is at least three. An unfortunate situation but it could be worse: Two relatively inconsequential games (no offence meant to the Georgians or Romanians) missed, in which Lawes, as a first choice lock (perhaps THE first choice lock), may well not even have played in, and he's no doubt learned a lesson from the experiance and will be a better player for it.

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    Couple of people - including Hugh MadBrough - suggested on the other post that Ledesma was milking this incident and pretending to be knocked out. I've now watched this again and am 100% convinced there's no play-acting going on here!! Tell you what else I've noticed - the initial tackle by Wigglesworth is a great hit on a big gnarly unit like Ledesma. Also, quite amusing how he (Wigglesworth) also gets taken out by Lawes (head-clash by the looks of it) and then he gets taken out by the other tacklers (basically Easter throws Armitage and the Argentine fullback on top of him), and yet I don't think he was down for that long. Resilient little bastard took quite a lot of punishment and bounced back up no problems.

    Reply

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  • Lets see, 17 and half stone there about, 6ft 7 tall, travelling at 15mph +, no brakes, VSC, ASC, DSC and any other an acronym you can think of, what the hell is he meant to do, he's committed to going in, no way of stopping- I don't know, leap like a salmon perhaps into the side hoarding. Anyway, he must have steel b***s as he whacked him with his crotch.

    Reply
  •  dustinp68
    dustinp68

    He was in no way responsible for the injury on the second tackle. The initial hit caused the concussion to the Argentinian and there was no knee to the head whatsoever by Lawes. If anything he slowed up and made contact with his crotch or upper thigh/lap which was not at all very hard. This suspension is garbage.

    Reply
  •  wexman
    wexman

    @stroudos Cheers man, I must check that out. Does he do every match or just the big one of the day? I'm guessing the latter

    Reply
  •  ropeycentre
    ropeycentre

    Err Saffer - I think you'll find that everyone has a father. Lawes certainly does have one called Linford.

    Reply
  •  gungehammer
    gungehammer

    First tackle, no problems, fantastic hit. Second "tackle" was reckless and dangerous and deserved a minimum sentence, which is what he got. What we want is consistency ... Botha, Cooper!

    Reply
  •  sampounds
    sampounds

    luckily he wont miss any crucial games. poor citing, as it was never in any way intentional. You could see he was going down to make a tackle but pulled out. People get hurt, bodily parts collide..... its rugby!

    Reply
  •  ropeycentre
    ropeycentre

    No intention is required NB - the offence covers "reckless" contact with the knee and I am sure he was done on this limited basis, which is why it is only 2 weeks. Clearly a shot across the bows for the young lad which will help to keep him honest in future games.

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    @wexman - I watched this game with the TV on mute and the Alternative Rugby Commentary - arcrugby.co.nz - streaming live on the computer. Thoroughly recommend it. Downside is it's a second or two behind but it's more than worth it. **** me that Jed Thian is one seriously funny bastard.

    Reply
  •  jmr003
    jmr003

    Lawes was very hard done.

    Reply
  •  stroudos
    stroudos

    (Re-posted from a previous comments board): I think this was a bit of a cheap shot, but his thought process would have been "I don't really care if I clatter him while stopping the try", as opposed to "right, I'm going to clatter this bar steward". Also, he has a distinct lack of previous for foul play. He's usually a clean, but abrasive and physical, player and that good record has obviously been taken into account. There's a rumour England may even appeal the two-week sentence, but I sincerely hope they don't. I think it's a fair verdict and Lawes & England should take the medicine.

    Reply
  •  wexman
    wexman

    Probably the right call but it doesn't really matter anyway because of the next two matches, I'm sure that was in the back of the Commissioners mind. On a side note how unbelievably terrible are the ITV commentators?? The main guy just doesn't know what he is talking about and talks like he is watching a soccer match and Phil Vickery can barely put a sentence together, while both are ridiculously biased! At least the Sky and RTE commentary is somewhat entertaining even if they are a little biased. ITV and BBC commentary should be morphed into one!!!

    Reply
  •  citingcommissioner
    citingcommissioner

    I don't know whether this is a citing or not. The first tackle was completely legitimate as he was committed and used arms, brought him down safely... however the fact Tiesi got injured didn't help the subsequent situation. The second incident at first seemed pretty innocuous however the replay shows what appears to be Lawes dropping in his knee, was this deliberate, the video seems inconclusive, and only Lawes will know the truth, it's a massive call by the 'real' Citing Commissioner. A couple of questions, if this happened in a Romania vs Georgia match would anybody care and also if Lawes hadn't knocked out his opponent would anybody actually have noticed? I'm not saying it is the wrong call, however I do feel Lawes can feel unlucky on the citing - but then again lucky it's only 2 matches!

    Reply
  •  skay2k
    skay2k

    Lawes is a serious operator,he makes absolutely brutal hits every time he gets on the pitch but this was just reckless.

    Reply

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England's Courtney Lawes suspended for two weeks | RugbyDump - Rugby News & Videos