Wednesday Mar 21, 2018

Bismarck du Plessis slaps Florian Fritz repeatedly but stays on the field

Bismarck du Plessis slaps Florian Fritz repeatedly but stays on the field
54
Comments

Montpellier hooker Bismarck du Plessis made headlines recently when he and a teammate were involved in a fight just before kickoff. This past weekend he caught our attention again, this time against Toulouse, after he was held at the back of a ruck.

With Toulouse on attack, experienced back Florian Fritz hung on to the bottom of the hooker’s shorts and leg. As we’ve seen before, Du Plessis has a very short fuse so wasted no time at all in dealing with the 34-year-old former French international.

His open-handed slaps landed six or seven times, as he kept doing it until Fritz released.

The referee had a word with him but then backed down, either due to the Du Plessis reputation and experience or because of the fact that everyone sympathises with players being held back.

Turning 33 himself very soon, Du Plessis still has the fire and competitive streak that kept him at the top of the world game for many years. After 79 Test caps, he stopped playing Test rugby after the 2015 Rugby World Cup, with a move to France.

While the Springboks now have a quality hooker in the form of Malcolm Marx, most fans probably wish he had not made the move abroad, especially with the bleak few years passed in mind.

That said, slapping someone on the back of the head that many times should be unnaceptable. 

EXTRA: The open-handed punishment seems to run in the family! Watch brother Jannie take his frustrations out against the Hurricanes in 2012, sparking a big brawl.

54 Comments

  •  drg
    drg

    Haha apologies RD, I apologise for assuming your stance, however regardless of your personal opinions on those past incidents, your style of writing was perhaps less convicting, which I believe was more in tune with the way things were "back then", compared to today when we are ALL more touchy about incidents and more expectent for red cards for minor things these days... Has rugby gone soft, or have we all gone soft?

    Reply
  •  badge
    badge

    Haha - "You guys know I'm standing right here?"

    Reply
  •  rugbydump
    rugbydump

    This is kind of like discussing someone behind their back when you're standing right next to them! As you were..

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Hahaha! Brilliant saying! I'll remember that!

    Reply
  •  katman
    katman

    That, my friend, is precisely what I'm suggesting. As my people say: As jy nie wil hoor nie, dan moet jy voel. (If you don't want to listen then you must feel)

    Reply
  •  dancarter
    dancarter

    Also, law 13.3: A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must: Allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball. Not play the ball. Not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.

    Reply
  •  dancarter
    dancarter

    Should have been a Montpellier penalty. du Plessis picks the least violent/dangerous method of trying to get Fritz to let go and makes a big show of it to alert the referee, who does nothing. If Fritz continues to hold on after the first slap then he's only got himself to blame when he gets hit again.

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Having not been born until the near 90's, add on near 10 years or there abouts and that's when I started to become aware of rugby via 7's, then add on another 3-4 years and we're into the near mid 00's and I started as a young lad playing 15's... So all in all my rugby career and my age is younger than some of the greats that are retiring and/or still playing today, Dan Carter, Wilkinson, BOD, Parisse, Nonu, O'Connell, Mayfield, Bakkies can sit here and name hundreds or recent retirees or soon to be.. So, I'm well aware the date is not 1970's or at least I assume it's nothing like the 70's. What's your point? Or is that a slight exaggeration, and what you mean it's, it's nothing like 2008 - which is after the turn of professionalism anyway.... Why are you bringing in straw man arguments? Why would you walk up to the hooker and slap him after a poor lineout throw? It doesn't affect a player and 95% of the time.the referee would pick it up, compared to the 5% of the time AT BEST where the referee might pick up on a player holding another... Can't we extend your daft argument to other aspects of the game, "well if you can tackle someone with the ball, why can't you tackle someone without it" or "if the scrum half can reach in to a ruck to dig out the ball, why can't he crawl under the front rows feet and get it in a scrum"... Horses for courses and one would hope each incident would be looked at accordingly, player slapped for holding a jersey =/= player slapped for throwing s lineout poorly... Ok, I'll entertain you, if Freddie's mum is so concerned about a sport that clearly linked her husband to dementia, then she shouldn't be letting the mite play it at all! What's next on the mother's campaign, boxing I guess, should probably ban punches to the head. As for your last part, if you genuinely don't know they're called laws and not rules and you actually "laugh out loud" that I refer to them correctly as laws, then pat yourself on the back for being a halfwit.

    Reply
  •  10stonenumber10
    10stonenumber10

    And it has reduced grown men to pedantic arguments on the internet....

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    Point 2 is not in contention, we all agree. 'the point is' This isn't the 1970s, this is the modern game. The introduction of professionalism has seen the steaks go way up. Winning (and more importantly, not losing) is paramont and we are seeing players seeking advantage where ever they can. If you allow the potential for players to legally injure their opposition, all you need to do is wait for the steaks to become high enough and that is what will begin to happen. Let's look at it another way and apply your same logic to other areas of the game. The opposition is trying to gain an advantage by drifting offside? Throw 'em a slap, that'll discourage him from doing it again. The hooker's just thrown the ball crooked again! Let's give him a dig, he won't make that mistake again. The referee is and should be the sole arbitor of the game (which I'll admit, in rugby is whole other problem onto itself) and handing responsibility over to the players is just asking for trouble. As for little Freddie? Freddie's mum is understandably concerned because Freddie's father has begun to show signs of early dementia. The game is bigger, faster and more competative than it has ever been. DrG do you want to be the guy that helped prevent this from getting worse or the guy who tried to encourage players to slap each other in the head. Also Laws? ... whatever dude. LOL

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Where's point 2? The games history is on its laws... The ability to call them laws is in some ways at least showing a recognition to where the game came from, an ode to its forefathers.. if you're going to bastardise it, at least appreciate where it's come from! The point is, you're suggesting that.instead of fixing the problem, we fix the outcome... The whole point is that I don't want to be slapped about the head anymore than anyone else, so I'd pick and choose times to behave like Fritz.. or just not do it at all, or just accept the outcome if I do! The entire game came from a world where you knew if you slowed the ball up with your hands, you're liable to have it trodden on, if you slow the ball with your body, you're liable to have a back resembling some sort of maze at the end of the game.. these were all deterrents, much like the punishments of old. Sure they can be abused and it's the abuse that needed policing... You can ruck someone on the ground, but it was illegal to ruck their head or stamp on them...that doesn't sound unreasonable to me, but little Freddie's mum thought it was far too violent for her cherub to mix with those ruffians and the businessmen in charge realised this, so softened the game accordingly. Now the ball is getting slowed, penalties are huge in numbers and it's all a bit unnecessary, that sort of thing sorted itself. Slaps to the head, again, if people knew what was coming, they wouldn't do it...and if they did it, it wouldn't be long before they let go... It's simple really. Red card Bismarck for strikes to the head and you've just rewarded Fritz and you'll open the flood gates. But as long as Freddie doesn't get a boo boo then we're sorted yeh? The game will be 100% safe and tidy.. Provided he doesn't break his neck in a totally accidental scrum collapse that is...

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    My whole point is in regard to the past... Read my very first comment you questioned me on: "How modern of you" - suggesting this day and age. "Perhaps you never really have, but in the PAST"...suggesting...uh...the past? So why wouldn't I include posts from the past? The whole reason this argument has come about is due to comments which are reflective in today's ridiculous game, compared to comments regarding the sport where there was a lot less 'footballery' (less being the word, there was always some!). No, I didn't misinterpret that word at all, look at the language, whilst not 100% promoting, it is certainly not slamming the incident in the way words like (here I go again), 'disgusting' 'despicable' would... Those are clearly damning words, crazy is a bit more "oh shiiit" "mad" "wow". "Second and third don't condone violence in anyway" - ever heard of "sin of silence", "inaction is as bad as acceptance" and all those other wonderful life quotes *rolls eyes*, so you say they don't condone it, but do they actively discourage it? No. So again, neutral stance which was precisely my point, totally contrary to this post of: "That said, slapping someone on the back of the head that many times should be unnaceptable" so again, not nonsense, proves my point. Next? 4th post, "a quote from someone with nothing to do with RD"... Who wrote that article precisely? Clearly RD chose to include it, however unless RD chose to include it with some irony, or some odd form of protest then both outcomes prove my point, it was either RD showong "yeh, it's just one of those things and I agree with Horwill" or, it was RD taking an entirely neutral stance which; as before, is entirely my point.

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    What the good Dr of course doesn't realise, is that a comment like this says much more about him than it does about me

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    1. Harder yes but you can still do a lot of damage from the base of the palm. What you're suggesting is a player holds my jersey, I turn around, break his nose with the palm of my hand and the other player has to go off for blood replacement while I remain on the field? Just don't hit people in the head, easy as that. 3. Fair enough, point taken, but there are more that one way to solve a problem. You can encourage referees/ linesman to keep an eye out for it and punish harshly as poor sportsmanship. 4. Sorry I meant held his jersey instead of pull. "then a slap seems about right" , I mean I just can't see grounds for this anywhere else in rugby or sport (besides MMA etc) where it's alright to slap a player across the face.

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    So first of all, the most recent example you've given is 6 years old. The game and rugby dump has moved on an awful lot, especially in relation to protection of the head. The first example is 10 YEARS OLD! While were on that example let's look at that full sentence ... "A few citings will no doubt be revealed in the next few days, which is unfortunate, because besides this crazy incident it was actually a really enjoyable match to watch" you've misinterpreted 'crazy' to mean good when it clearly was used to contrast the incident against an otherwise good game. Having said that we're arguing over one word from 10 years ago! Second and third post don't condone violence in any way. 4th post does seem to condone violence but is quote/ opinion from someone with nothing to do with Rugbydump. By in large I think Rugbydump does quite a good job at promoting legal hits, provoking conversation about controversial hits and vilifies the nasty.

    Reply
  •  10stonenumber10
    10stonenumber10

    2013 Farrell got punched for being 2013 Farrell. 2013 Farrell agreed that he deserved it. Holding on: more irritating than the car in front stalling at a green light. http://www.rugbydump.com/2013/06/3214/schalk-brits-suspended-for-three-weeks-for-striking-owen-farrell

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    "Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air?" You're not suggesting going back to the barbaric days of paying for your actions with stiff consequences? Like the time I knowingly rammed a shoulder into the guts of an unsuspecting player in a mail just after the whistle blew and had 5/8's of their pack land on top of me all attempting to get a dig in? Sounds a bit too dangerous to me!

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Jerome, you're arguing with a bloke who calls our fine book "rules"... This just emphasises how ill informed this gentleman is.

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Nonsense how precisely? You asked for examples of my comment where I said RD perhaps slyly promoted or just took a neutral stance.. So in actual fact my examples - the first one, show a sly promotion with the use of words like 'crazy' rather than "disgusting" or "despicable" or some other BS, the following examples were neutral comments... So nope, not.nonsense at all..

    Reply
  •  finedisregard
    finedisregard

    Andinov, All of those changes have been mistakes.

    Reply
  •  ruckinmaul
    ruckinmaul

    http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=9 Law 9.26: A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship Penalty against Fritz

    Reply
  •  ruckinmaul
    ruckinmaul

    it should be law 9.26. My mistake

    Reply
  •  ruckinmaul
    ruckinmaul

    http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=9 Law 10.26:A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship Law clearly stated there. this is way beyond the spirit of good sportsmanship. Fritz deserves a good hard slap if the referee chose to ignore the spirit of good sportsmanship.

    Reply

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  • 1. Pretty hard to knock someone out with an open-handed slap. Could happen, but about as likely as knocking someone out in a legal tackle. 2. So we all agree that Fritz was blatantly cheating, that the Ref did nothing, and that this is a common problem. 3. So you admit that your "solution" of retrospective punishment cannot work under the current laws (not rules). Moreover, you would require a rewrite to radically change the basis on which players could be cited after a game (shifting it from a red card threshold to something well below a yellow). It would trigger an avalanche of post-game citings, most of which would be inconclusive. 4. Oh come on. Nobody said that slapping a player who pulls your jersey is ok. The rest of your argument from that point on is just silly. The point is that Fritz didn't just pull Bizzie but kept on holding him, in an act of blatant cheating. If another player is illegally holding you in a ruck, you are entitled to try to free yourself. If he continues to hold you illegally to prevent you from freeing yourself, and refuses to let go, then a slap seems about right. Clearly as soon as you are released there is no further need for any additional physical contact.

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    The 4 examples are nonsense but I do agree with your statement below it

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    No, but we used to never see; - the referee penalise for raising a player above the horizontal, - or for judicious use of the boot - or taking the man out in the air - or a whole slew of illegal tackles but all of these have been addressed and attempts made to take out of the game

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    1. Okay, go the other direction, hand remains open but he knocks a player out? Here's my rule - don't slap the opposition. 2. This point is not in contention. 3. You change the rules. Take out 2 or 3 repeat offenders and you'd quickly find the problem solved. Instruct the referees to keep an eye out for it in the game. 4. Hence the word 'If' Just think what you're advocating for a second. If a player pulls your jersey, you're aloud to turn around and open hand slap him in the face. Can you give me precedent for that anywhere else in the game? What other problems could we solve? If the scrum half doesn't put the ball in straight, the other scrum half gets to slap him? Of course not, but we want to leave it in this one area of infringement.

    Reply
  •  katman
    katman

    Screw that. You slap till he lets go. Never mind permissible, that should be compulsory. For once I would like to see a bold referee drag this game back from the land of fairies, daisies and unicorns and actually penalise the idiot who tried to spoil the contest with the original transgression. And then address both captains saying he won't protect their players if they choose to hold the opposition back at rucks, mauls and line-outs. Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air?

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Apologies, it was another big Scot - Nathan Hines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btcJjN-OUqY Once again Im1 - Ferris is a victim...

    Reply
  •  im1
    im1

    ferris has a reputation for being a victim...

    Reply
  •  the_osprey
    the_osprey

    My favourite part of this is Bismarck's cartoon voice at 0.40

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    I agree with you FD and you Jerome, but I believe I have seen it once... although I think it was Jim Hamilton and he was holding onto two players and sitting on a third...

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/09/672/toulon-vs-stade-francais-fight-in-the-top-14 Brawl described as "crazy incident"... http://www.rugbydump.com/2011/12/2283/morgan-parra-vs-george-chuter-and-manu-tuilagi-simultaneous-yellow Just a fairly neutral description, no attempt to please the hordes of worried mums http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/04/2481/jannie-du-plessis-slapped-with-off-field-yellow-card-after-starting-dust-up Lots of quotations, descriptions of the incident, again, no attempt to qualm the fears of the worried mums.. http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/04/2489/front-rowers-ben-daley-and-dan-palmer-square-off-in-brisbane Includes a quote by Horwill who basically says it was just one of those things... Anyway. that's just a handful, I know times change, peoples style of play changes, the future comes and all of a sudden players like Bakkies, Martin Johnson, your gnarled front rowers and 'mad dog' back rows etc etc, are liabilities, not assets.. So of course, it's understandable that style of the media coverage has changed also. Given that this is a free site that requires no bank details, no 'upgrade to premium coverage' etc etc, one shouldn't really have too much to say about the literature surrounding the videos.... However I always love the fact that this site is a nice big step away from youtube and is followed by players, fans and the like, so I guess I assume that whilst there will always be minor disagreements, the majority of folks on here would back up the likes of Du Plessis smiting Fritz for his cynical behaviour.

    Reply
  •  finedisregard
    finedisregard

    The problem is that the referee will never penalize the first "wrong". You either take matters in your own hands or get completely nullified. Have you ever seen a ref stop the game for some punk holding a jersey?

    Reply

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  • 1. Nobody advocated closed fists or illegal rucking (those are generally cards whereas an open-handed slap is not). 2. Fritz's actions are nothing short of outright cheating. Whereas a player might inadvertently end up on the wrong side of a ruck, there was nothing inadvertent about what Fritz did. Yet the ref and TMO did nothing, and this is not uncommon. 3. Under the laws as they are currently written, what ground would you use to bring a retrospective punishment? 4. "If it's really a problem..." - Seriously? How is deliberately holding opposition players, off the ball, to try to stretch the defensive line is not "a problem"?

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Try savers rib breakers series...

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    Could the good Dr please post a few examples. It could be helpful towards the conversation.

    Reply
  •  andinov
    andinov

    Aw, real hard man here! What if it's closed fist, do you allow it? What if the player is knocked out, does he still deserve it or is that gone too far? We of course have been through this before. We used to 'ruck' over players if they were lying on the wrong side. And when the laws got changed the same people came out and said things like "don't want to get stamped? Don't be a cheating ... fair's fair". It's very simple, this falls under the premise of 2 wrongs don't make a right. Fritz shouldn't have done what he did but du plessis shouldn't slap players either. If it's really a problem then punish both players retrospectively.

    Reply
  •  oliver
    oliver

    I think it takes more than that to scare Fritz away......... http://cdn.sports.fr//images/media/rugby/top-14/image-du-jour/saignant/florian-fritz/11745449-2-fre-FR/Florian-Fritz_w484.jpg his head is probably as hard as Haskell's......

    Reply
  •  oliver
    oliver

    "je suis pour un sport propre"!!! haha.....a classic.

    Reply
  •  nine9dennis
    nine9dennis

    Maybe he will let go of his leg a bit sooner next time. Good thing he didn't make a fist

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Hey I agree...well, not so much the kick in the head part, but the use of the boot is very effective and should be allowed... https://youtu.be/wHnnZkho5TM I disagree with the referees reaction, but just look how quick Ferris let's go...

    Reply
  •  colombes
    colombes

    It's a former french frontrow preconizing the kick in the head for any intruder (here mccaw)who would dare to put his hands on the ball or opponent legs in the wrong side of a maul. Radical but efficient.

    Reply
  •  45678
    45678

    I was taught, albeit in an old school era that if someone is persistently doing something to you in a game to give them a slap. You would probably give away a penalty, but the referee would be aware from that point Brings to mind Neil back punching joe worsley for holding him back at the tail of the line out in a cup final How times have changed

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    "Sure, but just want to be mindful of not promoting violent retaliation" How modern of you... Perhaps you never really have, but in the past you either slyly promoted it, or just took a fairly neutral stance of "look what happened and why"

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    Kick in the lemon?

    Reply
  •  rugbydump
    rugbydump

    Agreed. That's the problem. It's very difficult to see and stop it, except for when major incidents come from it. Maybe that's their opportunity to come down hard on it, via TMO and/or citing. Until that happens, we will continue to see it being an issue.

    Reply

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  • If Fritz wants to avoid head trauma, he always has the option of, you know, not cheating (or at least stopping cheating after the first slap or two). Hard to feel any sympathy for a player who continues to illegally and deliberately hold another player to try to secure an ill-gotten advantage for his team. The only other option is for refs to start penalising behaviour of the type exemplified by Fritz, but the problem is that it's off the ball, so it often gets missed and it's hard to blame the ref for that.

    Reply
  •  colombes
    colombes

    Just a slap? Let's bring back the "coup de pied dans le citron" French posters will get it ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkgkSRcjWAY

    Reply
  •  finedisregard
    finedisregard

    What's a player to do? Fritz is the one cheating, not du Plessis. A weasel like Fritz is very lucky to be playing in a period that has cameras. He deserves to be punched.

    Reply
  •  rugbydump
    rugbydump

    Sure, but just want to be mindful of not promoting violent retaliation. In this case, as it was Fritz involved, head trauma comes to mind.. Those were serious shots from an incredibly powerful man. Holding players back is a real problem in rugby though, has been for years, with multiple examples here on RD. Check the Related Posts now. Namely with Paul Williams and Heinrich Brussow, Paul O'Connell and Jonathan Thomas, and Sean O'Brien and Yannick Nyanga.

    Reply
  •  drg
    drg

    "That said, slapping someone on the back of the head that many times should be unacceptable" Basically...... What Oui Jerome said...

    Reply
  •  tigerinbirmingham
    tigerinbirmingham

    The first 2 or 3 slaps were to the players back whilst shouting to the referee. The referee looked over but did nothing. IMO should have blown and given the penalty as he was the first defender not part of the ruck. If the referee won't police the game players will take things into their own hands. The only overstepping was the strikes moving from the back and shoulders onto the head.

    Reply

  • Notice: Trying to get property 'data' of non-object in /var/www/html/php/vo/Comment.php on line 19
  • "That said, slapping someone on the back of the head that many times should be unnaceptable." I disagree. In my view, if the attacking player chooses to keep holding on to the defending player, then the defending player should be entitled to keep slapping him. The only limit on the number of slaps should be the duration for which the defending player is held. Don't want to get slapped? Don't be a cheating b*stard.Fair's fair.

    Reply

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Bismarck du Plessis slaps Florian Fritz repeatedly but stays on the field | RugbyDump - Rugby News & Videos